Lately, with your illnesses coming to the fore, it brings a smile to my heart when I click on the Grim Reapers video and here your voice, "Hello valued viewers. I hope you're all doing very well!" Thank you for your persistence and I wish you the best.
@@sidv4615 Well, a while back he had to deal with therapy for cancer (testicular, I believe, or something in that area). He seemed to have recovered, but has off-n-on illnesses (likely related) that he reports in comments during videos, and most recently, he posted a video about having something going on in neck/throat area. If you look back through the videos, it should only be about 7 or so back where he made an announcement about the latest.
And they'd only need to fire a third of what they did to take them out so what, around 90 million to their 1 billion, entire squadron lost and beating a hasty retreat. Win win.
This is what pacifists often don't get. If it is not money during time of peace then it will be blood during times of war that is the cost. Defence budget works like insurance.
SM6 only weighs 3300 pounds 1500kgs and the F18 Super Hornet can carry 4k per underwing hard point as they are rated for the 500 gallon drop tanks which when full are 4k pounds
Yeah, but it's not recommended to go full load if you want to go places. Or even take off. Good news is that SM-6 doesn't weigh that much without booster. Maybe less than 800 kg, which is equal to 5 AMRAAMs
Figure if the B-21's payload ends up around 40,000lbs, that means about 12 SM-6 missiles... So a flight of 5 Raiders could launch the same # of missiles and hit a mix of air and ground targets... absolutely insane.
Hi Grim Reapers, please do scenario Finnish Air Force F-18 vs. Russian Northern fleet avaition, since there is beautiful map of north Fin/Nor/Swe, maybe add to the mix some Swe AF Gripens and Norwegian F-35s. Cheers!
America deciding to use the SM-6 as an air launched missile is China's worst nightmare. The one slight advantage China had (until the D-3 is in full production and operation) just got obliterated, and now China themselves are hopelessly outranged by American fighters. The worst part is that we don't have a lot of AMRAAM D-3 missles yet, but the U.S. has thousands of SM-6s. The one thing China had going for them. Ripped away. Its hopeless now ❤ Edit: I just thought of something even cooler. Hear me out lads: Rapid Dragon But with SM-6
these can't be carried internally on stealth aircraft and are so heavy you'll be lucky to carry 2 per plane and still have enough room for fuel tanks which you'd still need for your fighters to be at all useful.
I very much appreciate how connected you are to current events and contemporary warfare developments. I have been a quite vocal proponent of this concept for almost 10 years.
Interesting that the F/A-18 being shown at the beginning has the CAG colors of the electronic warfare squadron that flies the E/A-18G Growler. Overall very interesting and cool video, there’s so much that can be done with DCS
Air Launched SM-6 vs AWACS: th-cam.com/video/vAOqlgxLL3k/w-d-xo.html Air Launched SM-6 vs Moscow: th-cam.com/video/w65iggPTGWg/w-d-xo.html PL-17 vs AWACS: th-cam.com/video/ct3-Wdf44LY/w-d-xo.html
Can't wait to play this game. After watching all your videos, I ordered myself a win-wing f18 Orion system. It's going on to a full motion rig with a 49-in monitor and a 4K VR headset
The F18s should have gone cold after firing, and might have been able to fire cold using data from AWACS. The Chinese might never have a target at all. Try it with Chinese and US stealth fighters.
The Navy is also integrating the Patriot PAC-3 into the MK-41 and MK-57 VLS system. The advantages to that is they can QUAD pack the PAC-3 in a single MK-41 VLS cell compared to just one SM-6 Or SM-3ER. This could over the Navy a quantum leap in capability and missiles carried. The PAC-3 is also quite a bit less expensive so they can save the Standard Missiles for more high value targets.
now comes the production problem. Pac3s are being drained at a conspicuous rate in ukraine and are already running dangerously low on stock. They're only produced in the hundreds per year and get used up in the dozens every time Russia does a missile salvo.
Cap, with 16s due any day now, it would be interesting to see: Present state blues vs red glide bomb run: 1). Can blues intercept and deter red glide bomb run with what they (currently) have? (Probably not!) 2). Can blues intercept and deter red glide bomb run with the 16s they’re about to get? (Maybe?) 3). If blues can win “2).”, can blues strike a red air base? I’d posit that the blues degradation of the red AWACS and air defense etc. would make these somewhat plausible…, to spice it up, on “3).”, a blue strategy may need to simultaneously strike a thin red air defense… ( overlapping threat rings are probably stretched, ie s300/400 mutual support is probably less ideal than it would have been because of the blue’s consistent strikes against such assets) Love these videos! Get well soon!
Chinese commander: "Stay at least 150 miles from naval ships to remain out of range of those SM-6s." American commander: "Yeah, you do that. Stay away from those SM-6s. (chuckle)" F-18 pilots from 200 miles: "Say hello to my little friends!"
I would think since the SM-6 is so expensive ande so few would be purchased for air-to-air roles it would be reserved for high value targets like Russian/Chinese AWACS, Recon, heavy bombers, ect. Kinda like a modern day Phoenix missile but even more expensive.
Yo Cap Futuristic, Hypersonic, and Stealth battle!🙏 The Boy's and Yourself are in F/A-XX's starting airborn with AIM-260's and AI HAVE GLASS F-16 Loyal Wingman! They are representing smaller aircraft and maintain low observable by either having 4 Peregrine's plus 2 AIM-9X or 2 AIM-120D's plus 2 AIM-9X! Ford Class Carrier with few F/A-XX's with AIM-260's however mostly F-35's with Mako's! LHD carrying F-35's with AIM-260's! 2 Arleigh Burke's, 2 Ticonderoga's, and 1 Constellation Class! 2 SR-72's with AGM-183's! 3 B-21's with JASSM-ER's! Opposition! off the coast 2 Type 055's, on the coast DF-26's, protecting them and an Airbase near the coast HQ-9, S-350, and S-400! The Airbase has SU-57's with R-77M's, SU-35's with couple R-37M's and R-77M's, and MIG-31's some with R-37M's and some with Kinzhal's! Inside/further protection for Airbase, Iglas, Tunguska's, and Pantsir's! To the south away from the action Carrier with J-35's with PL-15's and 1 Type 055 for protection! Finally further inland away from the action small Airfield with J-20's with PL-15's and few J-15's with PL-17's! Mission-- as stated The Boy's and Yourself are responsible for air superiority with immediate help from the F-35's on the LHD, however Ford Carrier will launch F-35's with Mako first then the few F/A-XX's will launch as last support/clean up! The Mako F-35's are tasked with taking out ALL air defenses! Before that The 2 SR-72's are tasked with hitting the 2 Type 055's off the coast! B-21's are tasked with taking out all DF-ZF's! Optional last strike, Tomahawks from the Ships (if any survive;) smash Airfield!👍
Yeah do you have a server that can support that many units😂😂 I think if you watch enough videos from Junior you'll realize that server capabilities tend to limit how big they can make their recreations.
The aim 260s coming out, actually should be reaching the fleet soon if not already. And the F-14 Tomcat is an old analog fighter that has seen its Day come and go
Didn't the British try something like this with their Sea Dart SAM? I was in the USN from 1986 to 90 and ran many NATO exercises and I remember preparing target drones for a NATO shoot-ex where they were firing Sea Darts that were guided by surface radar from a Type 82 destroyer. Like a buddy lase. I remember the event but it's been so long ago I can't remember the details, like what aircraft was the launch platform. Oh well, that's what Wiki is for! I will try to find something about this if it was even a thing.
Why wouldn't the missile be able to go faster than Mach 4 when launched from high altitude? It can go almost Mach 4 when launched from a ship, starting from altitude 0 and speed 0. so one would think it could reach a higher speed when launched from close to Mach 1 at 40k feet.
Hey Cap, Always use about 660mph for Mach 1 above 11km altitude! STP (sea level at 25deg C) Mach 1 speed is about 761mph, and is _incorrect_ for higher altitudes. Mach speeds decrease with altitude until around 11km, when they roughly settle at ~660. So the closing speed of the first SM6 (1900kts IIRC) was a tad above Mach 3. Thanks!
At that point china converts its DF series missiles with radar seekers and produces the world's first intermediate range anti-aircraft ballistic missile. Or programs its WZ8 hypersonic drones to into an air to air kamikazi.
I have wondered if the Ukrainians had trialed using a s300 missile from their old jets or even an AN26 (icbm launch style) against those awacs as they must have a huge range if fired high and fast
S-300 missiles are much too big to be carried by a fighter, not to mention the compatibility issues. The prevailing theory is that they used an S-200 or Patriot for the first AWACs shootdown, and that the second was friendly fire from a local Russian battery.
Try the Chinese J-16s with PL-17 missile too, it may be a closer battle. And also maybe let yhr Chinese have a near full or full loadout, having them at half payload is kinda unfair.
Assuming the deconfliction goes perfectly AND you hit all targets, F/A-18's only have to shoot 16 SM-6's at a taxpayer cost of $69,600,000 (nice) and then they can just immediately go defensive, while the chinese side would eventually lose $1,054,675,000. That's an insane cost efficiency even if each individual missile is outrageously expensive.
Not so unrealistic as the Navy is using F35c under stealth to be forward air controller for FA18's carrying the weapon. Don't think a SM-6 is in use but no one is saying how they are employing this strategy. To take out a hi value target instead of a fighter....
The sm-6 is very much in service and in use and as he said at the beginning of the video they've already spotted f-18s carrying them so yeah I would say if they're not in use they're pretty close to being able to do it if not already
The mass and length is similar to the RIM-161 just saying, you might want to use a Strike Eagle (from memory that has the better radar of the F15's) 🤷♂😂😂😂😂
AIM-260: 200 km range Air-launched SM-6: ?? range (estimated at 320 km range for this video) PL-15: 200 - 300 km range PL-21: 300 - 400 km range PL-17: 400 km range (250 miles) Russian R-37M: 300 - 400 km range China and Russia have access to missiles that can compete with the SM-6 but they're all intended for shooting down AWACS and refuelers so it's unlikely they'd be chucking large numbers of them against fighters.
Yeah don't get enamored with Russian propaganda along with the chinese. They really tend to over-promise and under deliver quite frequently😂😂 And yeah good luck getting any new advances out of Russia until they can figure out how to modernize their t-34s😂
You made a point in the Israeli anti-drone mission that one side could use inexpensive threats to force their opponent to use expensive defenses, thus making the war too expensive to prosecute and forcing concessions without actually winning. The expense of the SM6 reminds me of that.
Google tells me that a J-15 is 61 million a copy. The loss of 16 J15s is then 976 million at the cost of 279 million in missiles and no loss of any F-18s, and in a real situation they would not fire all of the missiles like the AI did. Also given the added fact that the J-15s are probably not replaceable in less than 6 months (highly optimistic), the SM-6's seem very cost effective.
@@wolfgangamadeus1246 china operates an extensive fleet of drone fighters based off ancient J6s If they're mixed in with J15s and used as a meat shield that could easily balance out the equation.
Yeah the cost of the missiles are way cheaper than the cost of the aircraft taken out. Not silly at all in fact it's very cost-effective, especially if they really do have it in service as a stopgap measure until some of the new Raytheon missiles reach the fleet
The rate of missiles firing theory: The simulator is following the same doctrine as naval SAM SM-6s. (Blanket defense) You would probably have to change something in the programing to have it follow the parameters of a standard air to air missile. (Choosing its target)
No because the aircraft mod just treats the sm-6 as a standard air-to-air missile. The programming from the ships firing sm-6 missiles is completely different than what the aircraft mods use
The Chinese shouldn’t have ever had a chance to fire since the awacs is targeting and guiding the second the hornets fired they should have gone fully cold
DCS core programming controls the AI aircraft and what the awacs is doing with the missiles. And they do what they want. Which is kind of a nice way of saying that cap is making the DCS programming for the AI do things that it's really not intended to do in the first place😂😂
@@Wyomingchief no i know that and completely agree, but it does bear saying in the conclusions and during the mission that china even getting a shot off would be an impossibility if dcs was operating realistically
If the Navy can get the SM-6 working for long range Air to Air that would be huge IMO. Especially with all the threats and CCP aggression in the Pacific.
Oh I'm sure it's quite capable of being used right now. But again it's just a stopgap measure Intel the new Raytheon come online within the next year or two
Okay, Cap, once more for measure. I tried to hint to you while keeping things a bit of a hint. I guess i could not get your, nor busy CH's attention. I have since discovered that the ideas I have had are not completely novel, so I will let it out here in hopes CH is willing and that modeling such here would inspire its reality. I had some ideas for modernizing battleships. I heard sonce that adding VLS was considered on BBs in the 80s, but I am unsure if they envisioned everything the way that I have. Remove the main gun turrets completely! My calculations put about 1,000+ x 22' boxes in 1 and 2 barbettes and 500+ 25-foot strike boxes in #2. That doesn’t even include updates for the 5" gun slots and decking. Modification of 4 Iowa Class dreadnaughts as such would cover all CG in the Pacific, and provive an offensive capabilities with equal might. Imagine 1,600 plus SM-3, SM-6, etc, plus plus plus. Are you paying attention yet?! The BB are in game, as are the missiles. This is literally the most needed mod that could be made to affect a possible real world, needed thing to become real. It could literally save thousands of lives FFS. Thanks.
Yeah they actually did look at that back in the late eighties and again in the 90s before they completely decommissioned the Iowa class. I think if you go to the New Jersey Battleship TH-cam page, they may have done a video about it? Or maybe it was Dranchfil(sp?) Who did a video on it also. But the short of it was, it was not feasible without massive reconstruction of those ships, and it would have been far cheaper to literally try to build a new battleship instead. Which obviously would be a waste of money because you can build enough frigates and Burke class destroyers to more than makeup for the amount of missiles they could get on an Iowa, and do it cheaper. Part of the problems are, those barrettes that the turrets sedan or too small to put an adequate amount of VLS tubes in, without completely ripping them out which then gets into issues of structural weakness. And they did look at it in multiple configurations. Doing it only with turret number 3 or all three of the turrets and maybe one other configuration.. Also you couldn't do anything with the 5 inch mounts or the place where the 5-inch mounts were located. I believe they had already removed part of them during the refit to make room for other equipment including the Box launchers. Also those turrets set on a very small barbet, that would be functionally useless without tearing them completely out. And one of the Least Complicated part is you would literally have to rip up most of the decking on the battleship because they had teak, wooden, coverings on their steel decks Again it's a very cool idea and I know a lot of people are absolutely fascinated and would love if we still had Iowa-class battleships in the inventory. But their day has long passed, there's no Financial feasible way to get any use out of them at this point in time. I mean seriously you literally have to gut the ship down to the hull, and again it would be cheaper just to build a new one. Which would still be way too expensive
Thanks for the video Cap! A couple thoughts. First, given the general capability of SM-6 and the expansion of missions (more are needed for VLS cells, more are needed for the US Army Tphon launchers, and more are needed for other services looking to use them as general anti-surface, anti-ship, and anti-air missiles), they just need to boost the hell out of manufacturing. 500% production please! It really is a wonder-missile of sorts, given the range/speed/sensors and the fact it can be used for any mission basically. I think they also have a greater range given the distance they travelled after impact and the engagement speed. Is it a limit of DCS code, AWACS range, missile battery life? I'm curious to know. I'd also really like to see if it's possible to find whatever code is resulting in all missiles being fired and correcting that so they fire one per target. Finally, it does appear to be overkill, as the missile is ridiculously large and heavy, plus expensive. A middle ground between SM-6 and AIM-120D (and even AIM-260) would be ideal. Would you be able to modify this SM-6 missile into an SM-2 variant to see how that would do in a test, since we have many more SM-2 missiles in the inventory? I believe the latest variants all have active radar guidance. Thanks again Cap!
TBH I just made the rough calculation of 210 miles in my head and asked Dark to make that. We could probably get 250 miles, but not sure until we try it.
I think it just shows AI is stupid. When the AWACS operators detect 16 planes and 64 missiles launched at 200 miles. They know the bogeys are probably out of ordnance. So break contact get some distance let the missiles tyre out. and try to go back in. Worst case the Americans wasted loads of munitions.
AIM-174B/SM-6 Series:
F-35 Guides AIM-174B: th-cam.com/video/0zgVrc8EzC4/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B vs AIM-54: th-cam.com/video/OESh6sIOdjg/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B vs PL-17: th-cam.com/video/3QUzqCHE0Oc/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B (SM-6) Air to Air: th-cam.com/video/O9H3X3bEQRQ/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B (SM-6) Anti-AWACS: th-cam.com/video/vAOqlgxLL3k/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B (SM-6) Air to Ground: th-cam.com/video/w65iggPTGWg/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B (SM-6) Anti Ship: th-cam.com/video/L8CiCfShm-o/w-d-xo.html
AIM-174B + MAKO + LRASM Anti Ship: th-cam.com/video/xcWGQy6MhFc/w-d-xo.html
Lately, with your illnesses coming to the fore, it brings a smile to my heart when I click on the Grim Reapers video and here your voice, "Hello valued viewers. I hope you're all doing very well!" Thank you for your persistence and I wish you the best.
Yes, thank you so much!
Roger doing my best.
what happened to cap? how'd you get to know?
@@sidv4615 Well, a while back he had to deal with therapy for cancer (testicular, I believe, or something in that area). He seemed to have recovered, but has off-n-on illnesses (likely related) that he reports in comments during videos, and most recently, he posted a video about having something going on in neck/throat area. If you look back through the videos, it should only be about 7 or so back where he made an announcement about the latest.
What a silly video wrf 😂😂😂
It seems like a lot of money until you shitcan the entire enemy strike package for no losses. Spend money, not blood.
And they'd only need to fire a third of what they did to take them out so what, around 90 million to their 1 billion, entire squadron lost and beating a hasty retreat. Win win.
This is what pacifists often don't get. If it is not money during time of peace then it will be blood during times of war that is the cost. Defence budget works like insurance.
SM6 only weighs 3300 pounds 1500kgs and the F18 Super Hornet can carry 4k per underwing hard point as they are rated for the 500 gallon drop tanks which when full are 4k pounds
Yeah, but it's not recommended to go full load if you want to go places. Or even take off.
Good news is that SM-6 doesn't weigh that much without booster.
Maybe less than 800 kg, which is equal to 5 AMRAAMs
Per attention 1500 kg weight includes rocket booster. Without booster SM-6 or SM-2 Block IIIC weighs around 750 kg no more.
The super hornet also has a max weapon loadout of 17,750 lbs. which means, if they can carry 4 without being close to max.
SM-6 weighs half that much
Okay. B-21s loaded with SM-6s. *_"Fck your Air Force."_*
Seriously stealth missile truck go brrrrrrr with a rotary launcher
This would be fun, hope your doing well Cap.
Figure if the B-21's payload ends up around 40,000lbs, that means about 12 SM-6 missiles... So a flight of 5 Raiders could launch the same # of missiles and hit a mix of air and ground targets... absolutely insane.
I used to use B-2 with Phoenix in Jane's ATF back in the day. It allowed such things. Quite effective.
That sounds like a terrifying nightmare to have as a Chinese pilot
Oh wait.
It isn't a nightmare. The air launched SM-6 is REAL 😂
They went "AEGIS big RED fire everything" button
Hi Grim Reapers, please do scenario Finnish Air Force F-18 vs. Russian Northern fleet avaition, since there is beautiful map of north Fin/Nor/Swe, maybe add to the mix some Swe AF Gripens and Norwegian F-35s. Cheers!
OK
@@grimreapers 👍
"wiped them all out with room to spare" heck yeah. SM6 rules.
Putting in a vote now: AIM-174 needs to be called "Phoenix II".
Always a pleasure seeing Grim Reapers naval fights. I am absolutely craving more Super Tomcat content, especially against Super Bogs.
Tomcats fighting Super Hornets? Noooo! No blue on blue battles.
America deciding to use the SM-6 as an air launched missile is China's worst nightmare.
The one slight advantage China had (until the D-3 is in full production and operation) just got obliterated, and now China themselves are hopelessly outranged by American fighters.
The worst part is that we don't have a lot of AMRAAM D-3 missles yet, but the U.S. has thousands of SM-6s.
The one thing China had going for them. Ripped away. Its hopeless now ❤
Edit: I just thought of something even cooler.
Hear me out lads:
Rapid Dragon
But with SM-6
That only matters if the Americans can get theirs carriers close enough to launch there fixed wing aviation.
these can't be carried internally on stealth aircraft and are so heavy you'll be lucky to carry 2 per plane and still have enough room for fuel tanks which you'd still need for your fighters to be at all useful.
I very much appreciate how connected you are to current events and contemporary warfare developments. I have been a quite vocal proponent of this concept for almost 10 years.
Now try this against Su-35s with R-37Ms, please!
@@patrickwoxen3894 What do you mean? Both are 4th gen
Roger, that will be a good fight actually.
@@totalNERD-eo7wx seems like my brain was in the toilet when i wrote that comment lmao
@@patrickwoxen3894 fair
Wut. They’re really just trying all the things now huh? PAC3 in VLS, SM6 in A2A, wild stuff
This content is unmatched in quality and creativity. Your whole team is greatly appreciated by us, your fans!
Reminiscent of the phoenix tests….massive missile, massive range and devastating.
Me thinks Dark might have installed the "fire everything" button from an AB.
Yarp.
Interesting that the F/A-18 being shown at the beginning has the CAG colors of the electronic warfare squadron that flies the E/A-18G Growler. Overall very interesting and cool video, there’s so much that can be done with DCS
Have you tried this with F-15 EX yet?
Please?!
Yes, when they did the AWACS snipe video
Air Launched SM-6 vs AWACS: th-cam.com/video/vAOqlgxLL3k/w-d-xo.html
Air Launched SM-6 vs Moscow: th-cam.com/video/w65iggPTGWg/w-d-xo.html
PL-17 vs AWACS: th-cam.com/video/ct3-Wdf44LY/w-d-xo.html
Man I really hope DCS has fixed its target de-confliction problem.
Agreed
Can't wait to play this game. After watching all your videos, I ordered myself a win-wing f18 Orion system. It's going on to a full motion rig with a 49-in monitor and a 4K VR headset
Hello valued Cap, I hope you’re doing very well.
The F18s should have gone cold after firing, and might have been able to fire cold using data from AWACS. The Chinese might never have a target at all. Try it with Chinese and US stealth fighters.
It's not the plane. It's the missile.
Thank you; I learn a lot from watching these. Thank you!
Pretty crazy effective missile.
Good to hear you Cap!!!
The F-18E/G Super Hornet's are one of the best multi role fighters you will see/ use. You guys will love it!
I was hoping you’d cover this!
1:08 "primarily a naval missile" ... and the F-18 is a naval strike and naval air superiority aircraft
lol yes.
The Navy is also integrating the Patriot PAC-3 into the MK-41 and MK-57 VLS system. The advantages to that is they can QUAD pack the PAC-3 in a single MK-41 VLS cell compared to just one SM-6 Or SM-3ER. This could over the Navy a quantum leap in capability and missiles carried. The PAC-3 is also quite a bit less expensive so they can save the Standard Missiles for more high value targets.
now comes the production problem. Pac3s are being drained at a conspicuous rate in ukraine and are already running dangerously low on stock. They're only produced in the hundreds per year and get used up in the dozens every time Russia does a missile salvo.
@grimreapers - Thanks again for the video! Sounds like your voice is holding up, Cap. I hope you are doing better.
Yeah, a B-21 filled up with these would be basically unstoppable.
Cap, with 16s due any day now, it would be interesting to see:
Present state blues vs red glide bomb run:
1). Can blues intercept and deter red glide bomb run with what they (currently) have? (Probably not!)
2). Can blues intercept and deter red glide bomb run with the 16s they’re about to get? (Maybe?)
3). If blues can win “2).”, can blues strike a red air base?
I’d posit that the blues degradation of the red AWACS and air defense etc. would make these somewhat plausible…, to spice it up, on “3).”, a blue strategy may need to simultaneously strike a thin red air defense… ( overlapping threat rings are probably stretched, ie s300/400 mutual support is probably less ideal than it would have been because of the blue’s consistent strikes against such assets)
Love these videos! Get well soon!
th-cam.com/video/Ejco_GfPolY/w-d-xo.html
The AIM 174B (Sm-6) is already in theater
SM-6 on super hornets would make a great quick reaction anti-ship missile as well.
B!, B2, or B21 loaded with SM-6 and used in sniping mode. Loiter time and low observability!
Imagine if the outfit C-17's with rapid dragon crates of SM-6's flying in support of F-18's.
We need the new LRAAM missile simulated with its late-stage booster giving it great terminal performance.
You keep using 200 miles…that’s the range of the AIM 260. This AIM/SM6 is closer to 400. With AWACs or F35 support
Chinese commander: "Stay at least 150 miles from naval ships to remain out of range of those SM-6s."
American commander: "Yeah, you do that. Stay away from those SM-6s. (chuckle)"
F-18 pilots from 200 miles: "Say hello to my little friends!"
I would think since the SM-6 is so expensive ande so few would be purchased for air-to-air roles it would be reserved for high value targets like Russian/Chinese AWACS, Recon, heavy bombers, ect. Kinda like a modern day Phoenix missile but even more expensive.
Agreed.
That's what Raytheon's LREW and Boeing's LRAAM are for. SM-6 may just be an interim solution before those go operational.
@@johnsilver9338yep you nailed it
I wonder how the Super Bogs would fare if the naval Flanker was equipped with the PL-17?
The way we have everything set up, it would be about even.
@@grimreapers Cool, keep up the great work!
My favorite question! Great stuff.
What if you put a small JDAM on the end of a large discarding solid fuel rocket and made a weird HIMARS?
Yo Cap Futuristic, Hypersonic, and Stealth battle!🙏
The Boy's and Yourself are in F/A-XX's starting airborn with AIM-260's and AI HAVE GLASS F-16 Loyal Wingman! They are representing smaller aircraft and maintain low observable by either having 4 Peregrine's plus 2 AIM-9X or 2 AIM-120D's plus 2 AIM-9X! Ford Class Carrier with few F/A-XX's with AIM-260's however mostly F-35's with Mako's! LHD carrying F-35's with AIM-260's! 2 Arleigh Burke's, 2 Ticonderoga's, and 1 Constellation Class! 2 SR-72's with AGM-183's! 3 B-21's with JASSM-ER's! Opposition! off the coast 2 Type 055's, on the coast DF-26's, protecting them and an Airbase near the coast HQ-9, S-350, and S-400! The Airbase has SU-57's with R-77M's, SU-35's with couple R-37M's and R-77M's, and MIG-31's some with R-37M's and some with Kinzhal's! Inside/further protection for Airbase, Iglas, Tunguska's, and Pantsir's! To the south away from the action Carrier with J-35's with PL-15's and 1 Type 055 for protection! Finally further inland away from the action small Airfield with J-20's with PL-15's and few J-15's with PL-17's! Mission-- as stated The Boy's and Yourself are responsible for air superiority with immediate help from the F-35's on the LHD, however Ford Carrier will launch F-35's with Mako first then the few F/A-XX's will launch as last support/clean up! The Mako F-35's are tasked with taking out ALL air defenses! Before that The 2 SR-72's are tasked with hitting the 2 Type 055's off the coast! B-21's are tasked with taking out all DF-ZF's! Optional last strike, Tomahawks from the Ships (if any survive;) smash Airfield!👍
Yeah do you have a server that can support that many units😂😂 I think if you watch enough videos from Junior you'll realize that server capabilities tend to limit how big they can make their recreations.
Did we find the new replacement for the AIM-54C Phoenix? New Tomcat when? Lol love your videos Cap cant wait to see these in a war game.
The aim 260s coming out, actually should be reaching the fleet soon if not already. And the F-14 Tomcat is an old analog fighter that has seen its Day come and go
When you fire a heavier missile it doesnt lose as much speed when it comes down from the loft.
They're calling it the AIM174 now too I think, I mean still testing and all.
The PK is going to be much better for a Mach 2.5 terminal speed than a Mach 1.5. The target just doesn't have the time to do much to lose the missile.
Yarp.
Flawless victory.
Didn't the British try something like this with their Sea Dart SAM? I was in the USN from 1986 to 90 and ran many NATO exercises and I remember preparing target drones for a NATO shoot-ex where they were firing Sea Darts that were guided by surface radar from a Type 82 destroyer. Like a buddy lase. I remember the event but it's been so long ago I can't remember the details, like what aircraft was the launch platform. Oh well, that's what Wiki is for! I will try to find something about this if it was even a thing.
Why wouldn't the missile be able to go faster than Mach 4 when launched from high altitude?
It can go almost Mach 4 when launched from a ship, starting from altitude 0 and speed 0. so one would think it could reach a higher speed when launched from close to Mach 1 at 40k feet.
Maybe, I'm not sure TBH.
maybe the seekers and control surfaces aren't designed to handle hypersonic speeds. Missile might literally start melting
This, but with B-1b loaded with SM-6s and meteor.
I'd use the RIM-161... go big or go home 🤷♂😂
I recall you have PL-17 modeled and used it in a video. Why not give J15s PL-17s ? Then it would be fair.
Yup, I guess I could do that, but TBH I wasn't really wanting a fair fight.
i find it quite funny how once the hornet fired one it was lopsided in the air.
Hey Cap,
Always use about 660mph for Mach 1 above 11km altitude! STP (sea level at 25deg C) Mach 1 speed is about 761mph, and is _incorrect_ for higher altitudes. Mach speeds decrease with altitude until around 11km, when they roughly settle at ~660. So the closing speed of the first SM6 (1900kts IIRC) was a tad above Mach 3. Thanks!
I've always just divided the number by 700 to keep it simple. But I do see your point.
With this missile we finally have the true successor to the F-14 if you load 4x of these onto a Super Hornet
Could you image a C-5 Galaxy with however many of these just flying around, chucking them out when needed.
Crazy
At that point china converts its DF series missiles with radar seekers and produces the world's first intermediate range anti-aircraft ballistic missile.
Or programs its WZ8 hypersonic drones to into an air to air kamikazi.
Am only learning about modain missiles from this channel. 👽👍
Yes!!!!
"Thats 20 out or 1/4 of a billion dollars" or 1/10 yearly production.
Could the fire everything be from the launch cadence if you ripped them off the ships
Are these better than AIM-54 Mk 60?
Can we see a tomcat firing SM-6?
What happens against the Blackbird?
You could try this with 1xSm6 on each aircraft and AWC visible. I say AWC visible so the supers could go after that to.
PLAAF been real quiet since this vid dropped from GR
They said yolo with the sm6s
That was impressive.
Wouldn’t the SuperHornets stay outside of the PL-15 range and never get fired upon since they out range J-15 by roughly 100 miles?
can't detect the targets? in real life you'd never want your AWACs to be on the first line of defense.
since you're doing ultra long range air to air missiles, why not equip the J15s with the PL17?
If you could put 2 SM-6 on an F-16 or F-15 and launch at mach 2, would/could you get any more range etc, as assumed? (F-18 mach 1.6)
I have wondered if the Ukrainians had trialed using a s300 missile from their old jets or even an AN26 (icbm launch style) against those awacs as they must have a huge range if fired high and fast
No, S300 is Way too big for anything that isn't a bomber
S-300 missiles are much too big to be carried by a fighter, not to mention the compatibility issues. The prevailing theory is that they used an S-200 or Patriot for the first AWACs shootdown, and that the second was friendly fire from a local Russian battery.
Those missiles are the size of telephone poles but I like your thinking
@@Likeaworm S-300? Bigger than that.
Where to get a link to this mod?
Mods: th-cam.com/play/PL3kOAM2N1YJcbzwU5FCo0DRmCdF3owO1o.html (download links in the relevant video)
Try the Chinese J-16s with PL-17 missile too, it may be a closer battle. And also maybe let yhr Chinese have a near full or full loadout, having them at half payload is kinda unfair.
Assuming the deconfliction goes perfectly AND you hit all targets, F/A-18's only have to shoot 16 SM-6's at a taxpayer cost of $69,600,000 (nice) and then they can just immediately go defensive, while the chinese side would eventually lose $1,054,675,000. That's an insane cost efficiency even if each individual missile is outrageously expensive.
Downside: expensive
Upside: US navy pilots score kills while back on the carrier snoring in their bunks…
Not so unrealistic as the Navy is using F35c under stealth to be forward air controller for FA18's carrying the weapon. Don't think a SM-6 is in use but no one is saying how they are employing this strategy. To take out a hi value target instead of a fighter....
The sm-6 is very much in service and in use and as he said at the beginning of the video they've already spotted f-18s carrying them so yeah I would say if they're not in use they're pretty close to being able to do it if not already
The mass and length is similar to the RIM-161 just saying, you might want to use a Strike Eagle (from memory that has the better radar of the F15's) 🤷♂😂😂😂😂
If you give Super Hornets SM-6s, shouldn't the J-15Bs get PL-21s?
Still, 278k but took out a billion worth of hardware.
AIM-260: 200 km range
Air-launched SM-6: ?? range (estimated at 320 km range for this video)
PL-15: 200 - 300 km range
PL-21: 300 - 400 km range
PL-17: 400 km range (250 miles)
Russian R-37M: 300 - 400 km range
China and Russia have access to missiles that can compete with the SM-6 but they're all intended for shooting down AWACS and refuelers so it's unlikely they'd be chucking large numbers of them against fighters.
Yeah don't get enamored with Russian propaganda along with the chinese. They really tend to over-promise and under deliver quite frequently😂😂
And yeah good luck getting any new advances out of Russia until they can figure out how to modernize their t-34s😂
You made a point in the Israeli anti-drone mission that one side could use inexpensive threats to force their opponent to use expensive defenses, thus making the war too expensive to prosecute and forcing concessions without actually winning. The expense of the SM6 reminds me of that.
Google tells me that a J-15 is 61 million a copy. The loss of 16 J15s is then 976 million at the cost of 279 million in missiles and no loss of any F-18s, and in a real situation they would not fire all of the missiles like the AI did. Also given the added fact that the J-15s are probably not replaceable in less than 6 months (highly optimistic), the SM-6's seem very cost effective.
That's what Raytheon's LREW and Boeing's LRAAM are for. SM-6 may just be an interim solution before those go operational.
@@johnsilver9338 There is an old saying: "One operationally certified missile that actually works is worth two in development." :)
@@wolfgangamadeus1246 china operates an extensive fleet of drone fighters based off ancient J6s If they're mixed in with J15s and used as a meat shield that could easily balance out the equation.
PL-17?
th-cam.com/video/ct3-Wdf44LY/w-d-xo.html
@@grimreapers was thinking SM-6 VS PL-17;)
R-37M vs SM-6?
Agreed.
I've wathed a ton of these vids, and I'm obviously missing something. WTF is with the Hornets being called "bogs?"
cost of the missiles vs cost of airframes destroyed= viable, yet rather silly.
Yeah the cost of the missiles are way cheaper than the cost of the aircraft taken out. Not silly at all in fact it's very cost-effective, especially if they really do have it in service as a stopgap measure until some of the new Raytheon missiles reach the fleet
The rate of missiles firing theory: The simulator is following the same doctrine as naval SAM SM-6s. (Blanket defense) You would probably have to change something in the programing to have it follow the parameters of a standard air to air missile. (Choosing its target)
No because the aircraft mod just treats the sm-6 as a standard air-to-air missile. The programming from the ships firing sm-6 missiles is completely different than what the aircraft mods use
Why don't the Hornets turn around as soon as they've launched their missiles? The Chinese would never get a lock or fire their missiles.
DCS doesn't work like that.
It's just difficult to get them to turn quickly. They kinda do it when they want to.
Raytheon is making money while taxpayers are loosing it
That is indeed how it works
Omg do it with the B-1R lol.
ooo nice.
The Chinese shouldn’t have ever had a chance to fire since the awacs is targeting and guiding the second the hornets fired they should have gone fully cold
True, but it's never that easy to do.
DCS core programming controls the AI aircraft and what the awacs is doing with the missiles. And they do what they want. Which is kind of a nice way of saying that cap is making the DCS programming for the AI do things that it's really not intended to do in the first place😂😂
@@Wyomingchief no i know that and completely agree, but it does bear saying in the conclusions and during the mission that china even getting a shot off would be an impossibility if dcs was operating realistically
If the Navy can get the SM-6 working for long range Air to Air that would be huge IMO. Especially with all the threats and CCP aggression in the Pacific.
Oh I'm sure it's quite capable of being used right now. But again it's just a stopgap measure Intel the new Raytheon come online within the next year or two
@@Wyomingchief You mean the 260? I wonder if they could use the SM-6 as a long range AWAC interceptor? Maybe the SM-6 has more range but who knows..
Wweeee!
Okay, Cap, once more for measure. I tried to hint to you while keeping things a bit of a hint. I guess i could not get your, nor busy CH's attention. I have since discovered that the ideas I have had are not completely novel, so I will let it out here in hopes CH is willing and that modeling such here would inspire its reality. I had some ideas for modernizing battleships. I heard sonce that adding VLS was considered on BBs in the 80s, but I am unsure if they envisioned everything the way that I have. Remove the main gun turrets completely! My calculations put about 1,000+ x 22' boxes in 1 and 2 barbettes and 500+ 25-foot strike boxes in #2. That doesn’t even include updates for the 5" gun slots and decking. Modification of 4 Iowa Class dreadnaughts as such would cover all CG in the Pacific, and provive an offensive capabilities with equal might. Imagine 1,600 plus SM-3, SM-6, etc, plus plus plus. Are you paying attention yet?! The BB are in game, as are the missiles. This is literally the most needed mod that could be made to affect a possible real world, needed thing to become real. It could literally save thousands of lives FFS. Thanks.
Yeah they actually did look at that back in the late eighties and again in the 90s before they completely decommissioned the Iowa class.
I think if you go to the New Jersey Battleship TH-cam page, they may have done a video about it? Or maybe it was Dranchfil(sp?) Who did a video on it also.
But the short of it was, it was not feasible without massive reconstruction of those ships, and it would have been far cheaper to literally try to build a new battleship instead. Which obviously would be a waste of money because you can build enough frigates and Burke class destroyers to more than makeup for the amount of missiles they could get on an Iowa, and do it cheaper.
Part of the problems are, those barrettes that the turrets sedan or too small to put an adequate amount of VLS tubes in, without completely ripping them out which then gets into issues of structural weakness. And they did look at it in multiple configurations. Doing it only with turret number 3 or all three of the turrets and maybe one other configuration..
Also you couldn't do anything with the 5 inch mounts or the place where the 5-inch mounts were located. I believe they had already removed part of them during the refit to make room for other equipment including the Box launchers. Also those turrets set on a very small barbet, that would be functionally useless without tearing them completely out.
And one of the Least Complicated part is you would literally have to rip up most of the decking on the battleship because they had teak, wooden, coverings on their steel decks
Again it's a very cool idea and I know a lot of people are absolutely fascinated and would love if we still had Iowa-class battleships in the inventory. But their day has long passed, there's no Financial feasible way to get any use out of them at this point in time. I mean seriously you literally have to gut the ship down to the hull, and again it would be cheaper just to build a new one. Which would still be way too expensive
Thanks for the video Cap!
A couple thoughts. First, given the general capability of SM-6 and the expansion of missions (more are needed for VLS cells, more are needed for the US Army Tphon launchers, and more are needed for other services looking to use them as general anti-surface, anti-ship, and anti-air missiles), they just need to boost the hell out of manufacturing. 500% production please! It really is a wonder-missile of sorts, given the range/speed/sensors and the fact it can be used for any mission basically.
I think they also have a greater range given the distance they travelled after impact and the engagement speed. Is it a limit of DCS code, AWACS range, missile battery life? I'm curious to know. I'd also really like to see if it's possible to find whatever code is resulting in all missiles being fired and correcting that so they fire one per target.
Finally, it does appear to be overkill, as the missile is ridiculously large and heavy, plus expensive. A middle ground between SM-6 and AIM-120D (and even AIM-260) would be ideal. Would you be able to modify this SM-6 missile into an SM-2 variant to see how that would do in a test, since we have many more SM-2 missiles in the inventory? I believe the latest variants all have active radar guidance.
Thanks again Cap!
TBH I just made the rough calculation of 210 miles in my head and asked Dark to make that. We could probably get 250 miles, but not sure until we try it.
That's what Raytheon's LREW and Boeing's LRAAM are for. SM-6 may just be an interim solution before those go operational.
Hello Boys....I see the French are sending Mirage 2000 to Ukraine. Could you please do some scenarios using the Mirage please, thanks
Mirage 2000D vs Russian SAMs: th-cam.com/video/9-Pci_wWsFI/w-d-xo.html
I think it just shows AI is stupid.
When the AWACS operators detect 16 planes and 64 missiles launched at 200 miles. They know the bogeys are probably out of ordnance.
So break contact get some distance let the missiles tyre out. and try to go back in.
Worst case the Americans wasted loads of munitions.
simon whistler
I think the PL17 would be a better comparison