A heroic new proposal for JavaScript // The Code Report
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2022
- Could JavaScript have its own native type system like TypeScript in the future? The team behind TS has submitted an ECMAScript TC39 proposal that seeks to add "Types as Comments" to JS.
#js #webdev #TheCodeReport
🔗 Resources
JS Types Blog Post devblogs.microsoft.com/typesc...
TC39 Proposal github.com/giltayar/proposal-...
History of JavaScript • The Weird History of J...
React 18 reactjs.org/blog/2022/03/08/r...
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🔖 Topics Covered
- News about new JS features
- Native JS type system
- How TC39 works
- React 18 release candidate
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Vanilla JS with optional types would literally be a dream come true. Hope the proposal passes!
why? Can you pls explain? I mostly code in java and python and only did snippets in js cus of web dev
@drag codes Cleaner code also usually leads to less resource overhead and unexpected behavior, thus improving the stability and performance of the application. If this passes, it can make JavaScript even more popular than it already is.
Aka like python. Why not use python instead. Xdd (joking)
@@sweetmelon3365 I pretty much second everything that was already said in the video. I think that giving a type-safe version to a loosely typed language can cause some heated discussions, I guess because some people push it too hard and say it should be the universal norm. IMO it's all about scale of your project. If it's a small todo app or medium size one i don't see anything wrong with using anything that gets the job done. But in bigger projects with thousands of lines of code a small type mismatch could cause hours of needless debugging and ripping one's hair off :) That's what TS offers but it was always a hassle to set it up correctly in an existing codebase. I believe this feature would allow for gradual change towards type safe ecosystem. But hey, that's just my take on it :)
It's not like all of JS libraries will rewrite themselves once types are available, leaving you with broken experience of trying to write type-safe code while everything you use is actively shitting on that idea. Optional things generally don't work, they are useful but they don't affect the ecosystem much.
Also this entire Code Report thing is exceptionally good. Keep it up man :)
I love how we started with static typing as standard, somewhere along the line we decided that was too clunky and went with implicit typing, and now we're back to static typing again.
But now with a twist : It's """Optional"""
Took them long enough to realize weak typing sucks
@@shorwood Optional, structural, gradual.
It's good to try different things... But you know... It didn't work out
If you come from a static type language, dynamic type fells like running away with murder for the freedom it gives to you.
If you come from a dynamic type language to a static typed one, is like putting yourself in a armor because it makes you feel safer.
Love this. Short and sweet and catches me up with the dev world in mere minutes.
Love that you added the bit about the FED. Every American should understand the Federal Reserve. 1913 really changed America forever and 1971 too.
Exactly why they're coming after crypto!
@@_Code.Pilot_ and coming up with a crypto of their own LOL
over exaggerating the gold standard again… the Uk fazed out in the 30s and there’s very little benefit to a gold pegged currency… stop listening to online crypto enthusiasts
Yeah, I agree.. Not mad at this being in the update.
Yes! Loved it and we need a reality check often
So, like Python type hints?
Wow, what a brilliant idea!
Types in comments sounds like the beginning of a new JS branded nightmare. Never have I lost my enthusiasm so fast after one sentence.
I think missed what he was saying, currently you have JSDoc (types in comments), but is explainined in the video it's not great, hence this proposal.
Pricetag on the macs doesn't matter, since I'm always paying exactly 1 kidney, no matter the inflation rate.
Whose kidney?
@@perregrinne2500 LoL exactly the question that needs to be asked, we can't grow kidneys everytime Apple releases something 😂
@@perregrinne2500 the kidneys of the sweatshop laborers
THAT's COOL, BUT this time u will need to sell more than TWO!!!
Ah, now I understand why most Apple fans own only one Mac never two or more.
Again - I really DO love your humor! Those images that come along with your statements - simply the best!
I really love how you are not afraid to step into economics and politics.
They really do be trying to make us own nothing and be happy.
How dare they. Trying to make us happy... Awful
@@FranoNola "happy".
As many people in North Korea would say - we can't complain.
@@FranoNola u don't understand how the world works if u think "they" will be able to provide you happiness. They will distract you with meaningless short term pleasure.
@@davidjeffers9361 Hey, as long as I'm happy
@@FranoNola happy is defined by the individual, and I don’t see how anyone can be happy paying ridiculous prices just to live. Especially considering a lot of the scarcity in the US is artificial. Kind of like how farmers will literally pour milk on the floor if the supply is too high, because they’re not willing to sell it at a lower price, so they decrease the supply.
So basically what Python has been doing for the past few years. I think it would be awesome if browsers could just interpret TypeScript without compilation the same way they can interpret JS or WASM.
TS is not intended to work without compiling to JS. There is no other compilation option as far as I am aware. TS was never intended to work as you suggest. That would be a whole other language.
@@aethermass Please correct if I am wrong.
But if we have JIT for JS, e.g. V8, and TS is mostly, if not exactly, JS with type annotations added, why we cannot have JIT for TS in our browsers?
I don't see a difference in their files, except file extension and type annotation.
I don't have much JS or TS experience, and use Python occasionally.
wasm is interpreted??
@@rafindobuff990 Yes it is. It still has to be run in browser or Node runtime and isn't executed directly by your CPU like Assembly.
@@geeshta You mean compiled, right? WASM should not be interpreted
OMG this is amazing I love it We Need more code reports.
JS with types is so exciting. I love Jeff and this "code report" series too. Lots to be thankful for as a developer in 2022
I just love the way he makes videos whether code videos or code report.
I love how JavaScript gets better over time
But at a snail pace
I do love that although it's a double edge sword. When new features come out it makes me feel like my old code is now crap and needs to be fixed. It makes my new code that much nicer to work with so it's worth it. Refactoring can suck though.
@@PefectPiePlace2 I would say it could go out instead of up but... Programming languages never seem to die.
F*cked up languages will always have a taint - look at PHP, there will always be messy code.
JS becoming the standard for the browser is like marrying someone you met in Vegas while impressively drunk. Once sober you realize your spouse's many faults. Then, to reduce your daily suffering, you spend the following years trying to change them for the better. They make progress, but you know they'll never be perfect...
This series is just brilliant
I really love the code report, big kudos to you.
Wow future js going 🔥🔥🔥
Short and sweet!
Love that jab at the Fed at the end
This videos should never stop, that must be a proposal to make that happen.
love this series
Love these code reports fr
this video is an emotional rollercoaster
That would be super exciting 👍🏾
Damn that description was accurate about me on my m1 MacBook at the coffee shop writing typescript
You figured out the formula for good programming videos. The “even the guy in the coffee shop with a man bun” sounded like an Eminem lyric lol
Love ur content mate!
There's an error in the video. At 1:01, the 4 (technically 5) stages should be denial, anger, depression, bargaining, and acceptance
Or maybe it will be just one step, after I send my "boys" over to "have a little talk" with them.
Love the reference at the absurd inflation and announced rate-hikes
I love this!
This is very informative and cool
Such a messy language, I love it
Goosebumps every time I hear the intro.
Enjoyed and also satisfied for spending 3 minutes with you)
Would be cool to have stuff like that in the vanilla JS. Could you do a video about strange JS behaviours?
the video idea is cool, do that please
you mean like when they tell you that objects are always truthy?
const x = new String("")
console.log(typeof x) // "object"
console.log(x == false) // true
:D
(the issue is the double equals unpacking the primitive wrapper object)
Please, this would be awesome.
there's a 4 minute talk by gary bernhardt called "wat". It's absolute gold in that regard.
@@sadhlife thanks, will check it out
At first, I switch to JS because it loosely type, and I can freely express my idea (and constraint type in my mind) without worry about anything at first. It such a great place to test your initial thoughts, not like many other languages. I still think there is the beauty of JS without static type, although I use TS all the time.
There's also the fact that when you're using TS, you can literally just use the any type if the types are getting overwhelming to you. Like if you're solving some sort of really half problem, and the types are distracting you, use any and change it later. Other languages don't really allow that. There's an on and off switch here.
Type system would be opt in, you won't be forced to use it unless you want to.
I love it!
Dude that jab at the fed had me on the floor XD
Love the jabs at the gov and this new series. This one got me to sub.
Just started learning js and this would be awesome
If I understand correctly, these type checks would work like python, right? In python, type hints are also ignored at runtime, but not by editor tooling.
Correct. Expect they also want to add some new primitive types. No custom runtime types.
@@nathanhedglin931 i doubt, jsdocs is pretty close to ts types nowadays, but have an horrible syntax
I don’t get why they just don’t get optional types finally into that system. In python land, from what I see my data science / engineers do: they basically ignore all of it. Let’s face it. Huge amounts of JS are powering application logic nowadays and not mouse click event listeners.
The main difference is you don't deploy Python on the client side. While this approach makes sense in the server side, it makes very little sense in browsers, where it provides no benefits to the end user, and potential degrades loading and parser performance for stuff end users shouldn't be downloading in the first place. This is a developers-only feature. Put it in DevTools or a Chrome extension. (where, for that matter, it could support the full language - and actually perform type-checks!)
It's gonna be complicated. I have a JS typehinting codebase I've developed based on Symbol.hasInstance well-known symbols. That is significantly more powerful than anything a commented JIT-compile-time system could do, but it comes at a cost of runtime performance degradation. There doesn't seem to be a good middle ground between robust, custom types with a high runtime performance cost and trivial type documenting with no runtime performance cost.
So far the hinting system has worked well for me because most applications don't require extreme performance, and critical sections could be built without hints. Perhaps the code can be built with some gatekeeping so public portions are type hinted, but critical portions are internal and not typehinted. In this scenario, I doubt I'd find the JIT-compile-time typing to be all that helpful. But I might be convinced otherwise once I see it.
i love this series
First pattern matching, now type annotations. They're going the full Python-route, good!
"Let me copy your homework". It's funny how these two "typeless" script languages are now adding optional types.
@@NabekenProG87 because typeless suck for anything but Single-file-scripts
Actually... IIRC the type annotation in Python (or at least the form of it) was heavily inspired by TS. Guido and Anders had a seminar/talk/chat about it a couple of years ago at a conference.
Static types with type inference is where languages are settling at now
@@xucongzhan9151 Either way, it's a good feature, and I'm all for it!
Was reading this on the news today, thought wtf, watched it on this 3 minute video - which took less than the uninformative article - and now it makes sense thank you!
Wow i am super excited 🥰🥰🥰
Code report 🔥. Please keep posting more new content.
Damn this format is good... So good.
interesting what you said about everyone hating the ts compilation step, that's actually something i like about typescript!
My favorite news source
1:36 just "do this today". I like this proposal!
Praying with you on this one 🔥♥️
The only report I need
Keep those going 🤙
let's pray for it get where we expect
love the inflation commentary at the end 🤣
I liked the economics report at the end
thanks for the video
This is going to be 🚀🚀🚀🚀
This + the support for Records and Tuples would be a complete miracle for JS.
But I doubt that it will be implemented quickly, just looking at features being implemented every year by TC39.
How long?
Everything is a circle, everything!
Kinda like what Python's been doing for all these years. It has an additional syntax for types but it does not even make any difference in runtime.
The only time that it is used is in IDEs. They use these to do some type checking.
I prefer types in PHP. Still optional, but they'd crash your app when the type is wrong.
I think just adding types is a great advance. Maybe in the future they can add optimizations or strict type checking as optional features?
Actually runtime is still affected though. You can access all the type hints through __annotations__ and behave accordingly. It is used by libraries like pydantic to perform validation based on type hints.
@@rafadydkiemmacha7543 it's the most stupidest language in existence.
@@That_Darned_S not really, you should at least try it before spreading myths.
So this will be similar to Python's optional type check? Neat!
That would be so good.
I hate comments are aren't comments. Glad they're doing it right.
Wow this all sounds great and positive I thought I was watching fir- *inflation reminder* ah. There it is.
I see hope in type safe js in future, yeah =))))
love it
Man I need that type support so bad. Most of the projects I work on are in plain JS and it's so irritating sometimes to not have type annotations in them.
Legible js sounds pretty nifty
Immediately feel called out from that M1 MacBook remark, but I can’t disagree with it.
this is the kinda news show i dreamed of on my C=64 back in the 80s
Python type hint ? Same energy ? I would say yes 🔥
love your videos, this one cames with an macro-economics report haha thank you!
I finally discover what ts-check is about
Happy with the build step than ship more code
I like your videos a lot. How much time do you spend to make the video? Do you make a script with what do you would say? What software do you use to record the video, KDenlive? It will be nice to make a video about that!
It is a dream for all javascript programmer.
You don't need ts-check in all your files, just define it once in your jsconfig. The same for use strict. You are welcome.
Best channel on TH-cam
This is one of the best ideas and most well executed TH-cam series in tech rn. It has tremendous potential to explode your channel’s growth
Javascript team deserves more praise.
As I see, this wouldn't end runtime type checking/validation, right?
this will be a typescript killer
this code report is interesting
Fireship you are fire 😂😂😂😂 I liked the ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous 😂😂😂 at the end 😂😂
So they saw the suyccess of TypeScript and decided to use Flow instead?
Additional types would be really good in Javascript.
Awesome
*insert Micheal Scott shouting NOOOO, GOD PLEASE NOOO gif here*
What about Runtime error handling? Not only compile time.
That is one of the problems with this proposal. If it passes, run-time type-checking can literally never happen - because that would be a breaking change for all the incorrectly typed code that this would allow you to deploy. 🙁
Mdn got a new look, could’ve been part of this code report 😇
//@ts-check has always been a good option (in terms of code doc and type-checking).
Optional type annotations will be bl*aw*some!
Is this similar to type annotations in python?
Wow finally
This is the same type system that python uses and it's blissful to work with. I imagine it would be the same in javascript
I think not much can go wrong with the proposal but I'm a bit worried about the new 'reserved' keywords that would be needed for this proposal, interface and type to name 2
For node we could use ts-node
We also need pattern matching (there's a library, but still)