My guy you hit the nail on the head man. I’m a zillenial (95-99 is honestly it’s own generation having characteristics of mainline Gen Z and Millennials) who grew up within the black church tradition and came back to the Lord in my early 20s and it’s disheartening to realize this, especially being in the Deep South.
I pastored a ministry for about 7 years. One of the things I noticed is , although the Bible and the Gospel is timeless, powerful, and our eternity, the church itself often struggles to remain relevant to the generation it is called to. For example although we are not professional therapists, addressing mental health and strengthening family relationships is a wonderful start. When we truly lift up Christ and not traditions and doctrines of men, then we can be truly used by the Holy Spirit to minister to the needs of the people. Great channel and topic. We need to address issues like this for growth.
I appreciate your thoughtful commentary and the perspective shared. Integrity, as a concept, differs vastly from truly embodying it, and this distinction transcends generations. Moreover, to generalize "The Black Church" overlooks the profound diversity within it-blackness is not a monolithic race or culture but a tapestry of identities and traditions. Countless institutions and denominations operate under this banner, each with its own doctrines, practices, and cultural nuances. It is important to specify which expressions you reference, for clarity is vital in discussions as layered as this. Lastly, while stoicism offers philosophical virtues, it neither draws one closer to Heaven nor deepens a relationship with God, for such a connection is founded on faith and divine grace. All shared in love and the pursuit of understanding. 💯
Good point. My thoughts were based on the historic black church not blackness as culture. What you bring up is a different question that to me has been apart of the Black Churches departure from the essence of functioning as a Church of the living God. But what you bring up is a very complex issue. Perhaps beyond the scope of this conversation.
@@churchdropout Thanks brother, no in essence; I was asking was there a specific church, denomination or style of worship of "The Black Church" to which you were referring to? 🙏🏾Because this conversation is indeed deep and nuanced.
I personally have a very difficult time saying that God has said something or has done or is doing something. The OT rules about that kinda thing causes me to consider how God feels about that (if I'm wrong). So I'm willing to point to scripture, and give encouragement.
I think that understanding the social justice of the time Jesus and comparing it to today, we can see a balance as we bring forth the Gospel to and remember the least of these.
Unfortunately one of the reasons you outlined that the black church has not evolved is because it was initially birthed due to racial division in the American churches. Also the gospel within the black American churches further perpetuated that division due to lack of Christian educational resources even the Bible therefore having the gospel for decades taking a back seat. I agree the black churches involvement with social activism has kept it from being able to focus on the gospel as it should. Hopefully in the near future as the church evolves as a whole that will change.🤔
I have been raised my entire life in white evangelical churches and let me say this they don’t have it either. Learn how to answer the why. Activism etc doesn’t have to take a backseat to the gospel. We can use the gospel by asking the Holy Spirit to help us solve the problems and provide solutions. Jesus ministered to 5000+ thousand individuals and families by providing a solution to their spiritual needs and solved the problem of their hunger with 5 loafs and fish. Look here I almost walked away from God running in these white circles! The church is out of order period!!!
I think the a problem is trying to win souls and church members when you are trying to win souls and church members you present God in a way which is friendly nice tolerate entertaining too. Also to get people to come you also make it where God is going to bless you no matter the behavior. They think they are making people want God but it doesn't. You make them only want God for what he can do for you. If you preach consequences correcting wrath of God. God can punish you as well; also discipline and self-control too. Thet will be afraid to lose people. They don't also preach that God has standards boundaries rules principles and morals. So you teach an all inclusive one sided and tolerate gospel to draw people in. That is how the world is being crept in the church.
HEY ALLEN. AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS. YOU SAID FREQUENTLY, THAT THE "BLACK CHURCH" "HAD" TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. THINGS LIKE "HONORING" BLACK PEOPLE'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS; POSSIBLY EVEN HONORING "BLACK CULTURE" BECAUSE IT WAS NOT BEING DONE AT THAT TIME IN SOCIETY AT LARGE; BUT DO WE HAVE A SCRIPTURIAL COMMAND OR PRECEDENT FOR DOING THIS? DO WE SEE THE BIBLE TELLING THE CHURCH TO REPRIORITIZE THINGS LIKE THIS BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH ATTENTION IS BEING GIVEN TO IT IN THE CURRENT CULTURE? TRADITION WAS ALSO MENTIONED. BUT AS YOU KNOW, TRADITIONS, EVEN GOOD ONES, CAN GET IN THE WAY OF WHAT JESUS IS CALLING US TO BE AND DO. (MATTHEW 15:3) COULD IT BE THAT THE REASON THE"BLACK CHURCH" HAS BEEN UNABLE TO "EVOLVE", AS YOU SAY, IS BECAUSE THEY (MANY, NOT ALL) HAVE PUT THEIR FOCUS AND ENERGIES WHERE THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE (HONORING BLACKNESS), WHEN THEIR HONOR WOULD HAVE COME FROM FOCUSING ON WHAT JESUS COMMANDED US TO DO: PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL AND MAKING DISCIPLES; REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE ARE RECEIVING THE "HONOR" AND RESPECT WE BELIEVE WE ARE DUE. COULD IT BE THAT IN FOCUSING ON THE WRONG PRIORITIES, THEY HAVE NOW BECOME OUR "IDENTITY"; SO WE CAN'T MOVE PAST THEM, BECAUSE TO DO SO WOULD MEAN WE WOULD LOSE OURSELVES. BUT ISN'T THAT WHAT JESUS ASKED US TO DO IN THE BEGINNING? "For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it." -- MARK 8:35 RESPECT. SINCERLY, STEPHEN
Hello Stephen, This is not an all encompassing commentary. I am sure there are many other reasons. I don’t believe losing our life means forgetting our ethnicity or origin. I’ll leave it here for now.
Believing people who speak, or should I say want to speak, on behalf of God has been a problem for the church since its inception. In saying this, I believe popular movements like the NAR and others have helped further this practice and brought it into popularity.
It seems to me that the largest overarching message in the Old Testament is separation. God instructed His people time and time again to separate themselves from the Gentiles. But Israel broke that command time and time again despite numerous warnings, and look what happened. The "church" hasn't learned a thing. We are instructed in the New Testament to be seperate...yet we fall into the same pattern of disobedience as ancient Israel. All races struggle with this.
Some people may disagree, but the moment race is not a factor in the assembly of God and we just stick to and administer true doctrine is when the assembly will evolve. I agree there is no black church, that would mean God created a separation within His body.
The 'Black' church came about because the white church didn't want/respect Black folks in the congregation. The white church had folks that claimed to own Black christians. So, Black left and started their own church. No sure who you agree with, but there are thousands of Black churches in this country. Also note that the white folks had the hate, not the Black folks. Keep track of the source of the hate.
My guy you hit the nail on the head man. I’m a zillenial (95-99 is honestly it’s own generation having characteristics of mainline Gen Z and Millennials) who grew up within the black church tradition and came back to the Lord in my early 20s and it’s disheartening to realize this, especially being in the Deep South.
💯
I pastored a ministry for about 7 years. One of the things I noticed is , although the Bible and the Gospel is timeless, powerful, and our eternity, the church itself often struggles to remain relevant to the generation it is called to. For example although we are not professional therapists, addressing mental health and strengthening family relationships is a wonderful start. When we truly lift up Christ and not traditions and doctrines of men, then we can be truly used by the Holy Spirit to minister to the needs of the people. Great channel and topic. We need to address issues like this for growth.
Amen. 🙏
I appreciate your thoughtful commentary and the perspective shared. Integrity, as a concept, differs vastly from truly embodying it, and this distinction transcends generations. Moreover, to generalize "The Black Church" overlooks the profound diversity within it-blackness is not a monolithic race or culture but a tapestry of identities and traditions. Countless institutions and denominations operate under this banner, each with its own doctrines, practices, and cultural nuances. It is important to specify which expressions you reference, for clarity is vital in discussions as layered as this. Lastly, while stoicism offers philosophical virtues, it neither draws one closer to Heaven nor deepens a relationship with God, for such a connection is founded on faith and divine grace. All shared in love and the pursuit of understanding. 💯
Good point. My thoughts were based on the historic black church not blackness as culture. What you bring up is a different question that to me has been apart of the Black Churches departure from the essence of functioning as a Church of the living God. But what you bring up is a very complex issue. Perhaps beyond the scope of this conversation.
@@churchdropout Thanks brother, no in essence; I was asking was there a specific church, denomination or style of worship of "The Black Church" to which you were referring to? 🙏🏾Because this conversation is indeed deep and nuanced.
@ got it. I hope to have someone on to address this very topic. Appreciate it brother.
This is good! Thanks
Blessings!
I personally have a very difficult time saying that God has said something or has done or is doing something. The OT rules about that kinda thing causes me to consider how God feels about that (if I'm wrong). So I'm willing to point to scripture, and give encouragement.
Okay. Respect.
I think that understanding the social justice of the time Jesus and comparing it to today, we can see a balance as we bring forth the Gospel to and remember the least of these.
🙏
Unfortunately one of the reasons you outlined that the black church has not evolved is because it was initially birthed due to racial division in the American churches. Also the gospel within the black American churches further perpetuated that division due to lack of Christian educational resources even the Bible therefore having the gospel for decades taking a back seat. I agree the black churches involvement with social activism has kept it from being able to focus on the gospel as it should. Hopefully in the near future as the church evolves as a whole that will change.🤔
🙏 the church as a whole will evolve and change.
I have been raised my entire life in white evangelical churches and let me say this they don’t have it either. Learn how to answer the why. Activism etc doesn’t have to take a backseat to the gospel. We can use the gospel by asking the Holy Spirit to help us solve the problems and provide solutions. Jesus ministered to 5000+ thousand individuals and families by providing a solution to their spiritual needs and solved the problem of their hunger with 5 loafs and fish. Look here I almost walked away from God running in these white circles! The church is out of order period!!!
Amen. 🙏
I think the a problem is trying to win souls and church members when you are trying to win souls and church members you present God in a way which is friendly nice tolerate entertaining too. Also to get people to come you also make it where God is going to bless you no matter the behavior. They think they are making people want God but it doesn't. You make them only want God for what he can do for you. If you preach consequences correcting wrath of God. God can punish you as well; also discipline and self-control too. Thet will be afraid to lose people. They don't also preach that God has standards boundaries rules principles and morals. So you teach an all inclusive one sided and tolerate gospel to draw people in. That is how the world is being crept in the church.
True. 💯
HEY ALLEN.
AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS.
YOU SAID FREQUENTLY, THAT THE "BLACK CHURCH" "HAD" TO DO CERTAIN THINGS.
THINGS LIKE "HONORING" BLACK PEOPLE'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS;
POSSIBLY EVEN HONORING "BLACK CULTURE" BECAUSE IT WAS NOT BEING DONE AT THAT TIME IN SOCIETY AT LARGE;
BUT DO WE HAVE A SCRIPTURIAL COMMAND OR PRECEDENT FOR DOING THIS?
DO WE SEE THE BIBLE TELLING THE CHURCH TO REPRIORITIZE THINGS LIKE THIS BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH ATTENTION IS BEING GIVEN TO IT IN THE CURRENT CULTURE?
TRADITION WAS ALSO MENTIONED. BUT AS YOU KNOW, TRADITIONS, EVEN GOOD ONES, CAN GET IN THE WAY OF WHAT JESUS IS CALLING US TO BE AND DO. (MATTHEW 15:3)
COULD IT BE THAT THE REASON THE"BLACK CHURCH" HAS BEEN UNABLE TO "EVOLVE", AS YOU SAY, IS BECAUSE THEY (MANY, NOT ALL) HAVE PUT THEIR FOCUS AND ENERGIES WHERE THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE (HONORING BLACKNESS), WHEN THEIR HONOR WOULD HAVE COME FROM FOCUSING ON WHAT JESUS COMMANDED US TO DO: PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL AND MAKING DISCIPLES;
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE ARE RECEIVING THE "HONOR" AND RESPECT WE BELIEVE WE ARE DUE.
COULD IT BE THAT IN FOCUSING ON THE WRONG PRIORITIES, THEY HAVE NOW BECOME OUR "IDENTITY";
SO WE CAN'T MOVE PAST THEM, BECAUSE TO DO SO WOULD MEAN WE WOULD LOSE OURSELVES.
BUT ISN'T THAT WHAT JESUS ASKED US TO DO IN THE BEGINNING?
"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it."
-- MARK 8:35
RESPECT.
SINCERLY,
STEPHEN
Hello Stephen, This is not an all encompassing commentary. I am sure there are many other reasons. I don’t believe losing our life means forgetting our ethnicity or origin. I’ll leave it here for now.
In case you missed the referral to that author/pastor: Thabiti Anyabwile
Question do you think that people been the voice of God started back with the nar th-cam.com/video/Ap_TDYCk40Q/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WTK8_aYdjgkye2YB
Believing people who speak, or should I say want to speak, on behalf of God has been a problem for the church since its inception. In saying this, I believe popular movements like the NAR and others have helped further this practice and brought it into popularity.
It seems to me that the largest overarching message in the Old Testament is separation. God instructed His people time and time again to separate themselves from the Gentiles. But Israel broke that command time and time again despite numerous warnings, and look what happened. The "church" hasn't learned a thing. We are instructed in the New Testament to be seperate...yet we fall into the same pattern of disobedience as ancient Israel. All races struggle with this.
Some people may disagree, but the moment race is not a factor in the assembly of God and we just stick to and administer true doctrine is when the assembly will evolve. I agree there is no black church, that would mean God created a separation within His body.
Agreed. True doctrine encompasses right living. Can’t teach the gospel and hate your brother.
The 'Black' church came about because the white church didn't want/respect Black folks in the congregation. The white church had folks that claimed to own Black christians. So, Black left and started their own church. No sure who you agree with, but there are thousands of Black churches in this country. Also note that the white folks had the hate, not the Black folks. Keep track of the source of the hate.