What I hate is that Moth Flight is used as the reason why medicine cats can’t have kits, when she was young, already shown to be irresponsible and easily distracted and had FOUR KITS. It would be a struggle for any cat to have four kits without help and ESPECIALLY if their mate was dead like Moth Flight’s was. Moth Flight had the worst situation possible and everyone just said “well guess that means that medicine cats can’t have kits.”
@@FrostMoon_WoF_WarriorCats but nothing happened to her? she scattered the kits for no reason and this is a situation that could happen to every cat! the issue was lack of older cats to help, not the fact that the medicine cat had kits! every modern clan has enough cats to take care of 10+ kits at a time! leafpools whole thing was that she gave up her kits to SOMEONE ELSE to raise!
not to mention literally anyone else in the clan could have helped her. it's so frustrating like, why live in a close knit community if you aren't going to act like one!!!
Given the exact point when Moth Flight stopped being the recognizable attention-deficit and hyper-focusing cat, after she came back with this random new cat Micah and they had already been told that they were to be medicine cats, I'm convinced at least part of the reason it was there in the first place was because of her first appearance in Secrets of the Clans. That book started many of the Dawn of the Clans elements, especially Moth Flight. It included the story of her being a distracted cat interested in herbs rather than prey who was banished by her mother for failing to provide for the clan and who found the Moonstone and was named a medicine cat because of that. Once Micah arrived and Moth Flight was returning home, that plotline was over and the story team was all on their own as far as conceiving of a new plot, which might have very well included abandoning the personality and unique circumstances of the original Moth Flight to go all in on the Micah and kits plot to loop in what they also knew to be true from Secrets: that Moth Flight (and Starclan in that book) were the ones to make the rule that medicine cats can't have kits. Also edit, having seen further into the video, Leafpool's situation is an especially egregious stopping point to any arguments you could make for the "no mate no kits rule." Because, while she never once had any problems with Hollyleaf, Jayfeather, or Lionblaze needing treatment and her being unable to provide it, she *did* showcase in one situation that her personal feelings were making her incapable of treating a patient properly, and it was Cinderpaw. Because Cinderpaw was Cinderpelt and Leafpool was frantic that Cinderpaw would turn out the same way, and simultaneously *wanted* it to turn out the same way so she could speak to her mentor again. Jaypaw as an apprentice had to take over most of the duties of treating her because Leafpool was completely incapacitated by this bonkers situation. But that was her *mentor.* EVERY CAT will have a mentor, medicine cats especially. The idea that you could possibly ever avoid personal biases by not having a mate or kits is absurd beyond reason.
Agreed! It's a very flimsy code in warrior cats and should be changed slightly to where if a medicine cat had a fully trained medicine cat apprentice than they showed be allowed to have a mate and kits while the other medicine cat should take on the their mentors role in the meantime until their mentor is able to work again. Like how human doctors can take maternity leave it should be a thing for warriors as well.
Honestly if this rule didn't exist it would have probably prevented a number of bad things from happening. Like for example if brokenstar was actually raised by yellowfang I'm sure he would have turned out differently, I mean there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have still been awful but, growing up with a loving mother instead of in the care of a queen that hated him seems like it would make some kind of difference. Also if leafpool got to be the one raising jay, Holly and lion then maybe the ashfur fire scene wouldn't have happened or at least it wouldn't have been as bad? And he probably would have lived to because if hollyleaf knew that her mom was leafpool then she wouldn't have had a reason to freak out about it and kill ashfur. Really the 'no mates and kits' rule is one of the most pointless ones in the whole series and at this point it feels like it's only there to cause unnecessary drama.
Leafpool failing to treat Cinderpaw would have been the perfect example of Moth Flights assumption if it had been Hollypaw or Lionpaw that she froze up over. It also would have been the perfect example to show that the rule would be defunct as her apprentice stepped in and completed the treatment with no issues.
The worst part of the “save your kit or a warrior” situation is that the warrior code itself says that “no warrior may ignore a kit in need” it just flat out says to choose the kit!
The Warrior Code demands that no kit should be harmed regardless of the clan they come from so the hypothetical scenario where a medicine cat has to choose their kit over a warrior makes no sense, saving the kit is any cats priority
I think the code also suggested that this would be even when the kits were grown..? Basically saying Medicine cats would choose family over their clanmates. Which still makes no sense but yea.
@@loppie_445 this isnt the case for every family, but bonds with children tend to be more protective and worrisome than bonds with other familial roles
29:14 this quote is absolutely horrifying and belongs to some religious cult thriller/horror. How did nobody in the writing team see that abandoning your entire family for a religion is NOT JOYFUL AND IS, IN FACT, TERRIFYING????? How is "all of me now belongs to these dead people who most of I don't even know" a good thing in the slightest???? The Warriors team manages to paint StarClan as truly horrifying and the true villains of the series again and again and all of it's by accident!
warrior cats couldve been revolutionary if starclan was actually criticised but alas. the writers believe a kitty cat religion has to be the center of their morality and no one can question it
Starclan is always been bad though. Like some of their own prophecies in their own things they do actively cause more harm than any good they ever have done. I would argue that they are the villain.
@@Topdoggie7 i absolutely agree w u but i think the narrative barely ever refuses to address this, especially in earlier books. even now theyre reluctant to say that starclans ever been wrong lol
@@iwakeupandboomimarat That's because religious people never want to admit God in the bible is a narcissistic person manipulating his children. They wrote awful behavior and can't admit their God injection is bad or reads badly.
I am the daughter of an actual doctor and ever since I was little I always saw this idea that warriors tried to convey that "doctors can't have kids because it would get in the way of helping people in need" as really weird. Yes, my dad has an extremely important job and usually works long hours, but it's not like he never has time for his family. Of course, applying warriors' logic to real life is dumb but it's still a weird message that the books try so desperately to shove down your throat. The ONLY times when my father could not work was when he had to take time off for his own health and safety, and never because his family got in the way of his job. He is a hard-working man and to say that a doctor, or any essential worker, is somehow detrimental because they have children to care for at home just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Moth Flight’s Vision is imo one of the clearest examples of the series drawing on Christianity to its serious detriment tbh. As we’ve seen, the series has become far more anthropomorphic over time, meaning things that could be explained away easier if the cats were more feral - unreasonable clan hostility for example - become in turn increasingly silly and out of touch. The same applies to the religion they’ve created for this universe. The writing team has no time to integrate concepts that naturally blend into the already established universe, so they pull on real world values and traditions to use as literary short hand for xyz. Why are the medicine cats not allowed to have relationships? It’s short hand for piety. It’s to show that these cats are ‘different’ and more special with their connections to the afterlife. That’s it. And if that really was just the background flavor, it wouldn’t be as much of an actual problem because it’s not intended to be justified in universe. The problem is when you try to do just that. MFV tries and fails to justify the medicine cat rule, and the reason it fumbles so badly is due to the fact that their religion is pseudo Christianity projected onto a universe where it makes absolutely no sense. They didn’t take the time to enrich their world building and instead relied on easy short hand, which becomes blatantly obvious whenever they try to take any time to explain the behavior. Because we know it makes no sense, there’s no way they can make it make sense since the religion they’ve drawn on is so incompatible with the community they’ve written. As my gf just quaintly put: almost Christianity is hard to justify when your Christ figure is basically your dead grandma. ‘I need wisdom, so I shall pray to crazy uncle Steve. May he Rest In Peace. ✌️’
Gf had another interesting thought: Moth Flight being so obsessive/fixated on Micah + kits can def be characterized as shifting hyperfixations tbH. It makes a lot of sense that an adult with ADHD (as my gf and I are) could have a lot of trouble regulating her fixations as a parent (NOT to imply ADHD parents can’t be wonderful and responsible not at all, just that I can see myself with that struggle in that position etc etc). The split in attention between her children and her duties would be very relatable… HOWEVER. A character with VERY SPECIFIC struggles should noT be the arbiter of ‘who can have kits/relationships.’ Also not just. Dumping the children and traumatizing them. Pls. Do not do this.
While she does shift focus to Micah, it's not with the same distracted air that she has earlier in the book. Her perspective changes entirely at that point, unfortunately. So while I did consider it, she's not being hindered by her new interest in boys the same way she was by her old interest in plant.
@@Moonkitti Oh yeah naw I agree it’s 100000% unintentional, we were just slightly amused at the concept given our own experiences with ADHD pffft. Gf has never read the book but they were just ‘AH. Being in charge as a child of another smaller child and getting distracted and letting the flora babysit the child instead. Relatable.’ It’s a fun idea but yeah absolutely was not intended following the introduction of Micah given the change in writing.
I don't think it's pulled from Christianity. Catholicism, maybe, but I think Confucianism is more like it. The Christ figure in your scenario is more like the latter half of Confucianism, where by the descendants must preform rituals (aka going to the moonstone/pool) to gain knowledge from the deceased.
Characters like Moth Flight's mother Wind Runner have excellent voices despite being female characters. I have no idea what was going on when he chose Moth Flight's...
Could I ask for Crookedstar? His life was super interesting and Rainflower’s treatment of him is the reason he was tricked by Mapleshade anyway. And he lost so much but was still a strong leader for Riverclan. He’s one of my favorite leaders :)
@@kaitopedestrian Exactly. When it comes to villains, a lot of people say their actions are justifiable and/or inevitable because they had something bad happen to them. This is problematic and kind of the reason why some people with tragic lives are avoided. People are afraid of them going 'bad' and see them as dangerous. Crookedstar had so much bad happen to him and he had every chance to become a Tigerstar but he didn't. He struggled but got himself on track, living a long happy life. Having bad things happen to you doesn't mean you can't have a good life in the long run.
@@lucilucid He lost his mom, his dad, his brother to forbidden love, his leader, his wife, his two daughters, and his other daughter way later. He suffered so much but he was still hopeful and didn’t immediately fall to the dark like Tigerstar.
I'd suggest you'd talk about Thrushpelt! Maybe a minitalk or so I think hes such a good boi after all with him being such a supportive and accepting friend to Bluefur playing an important role in her life and acting so different to rejection than like Ashfur or Bumblestripe
My suggestion is for barley. He seems like a fun guy and I want to know your opinions on him. That or echo’song, another medicine cat who was trained by ghosts.
I wish they'd focused more on the religious aspect of the rule than the "logical" reasons for it. There isn't really a logical reason for it - But real life nuns and monks chose to not have children. It's actually interesting if you look at medieval europe, how many queer people were nuns or monks. Becoming a nun meant escaping from the expectations the world placed on you, and that's enticing for many people. I guess that's not normal enough for Warrior Cats though. Can't have a woman who doesn't want kids!
It's also interesting in some specific cultures. In Poland monks and nuns were very often law escapees as many rules prevented the law enforcement to act in religious places. Some of these rules included not being allowed to arrest anyone in church (so many criminals hid in them) as well as nuns, monks and priests being basically untouchable their entire life, even if they had very heavy criminal history. It was such a widespread problem a famous Polish writer created a whole dark comedy book that criticised how monks and nuns are basically always drunk, immoral and violent people. The book was so outrageous it was banned which the author responded to the situation by.. making another book in which he sarcastically painted a picture of a "perfect" religious community and criticised censorship I truly believe this aspect is such an unused and interesting mechanic to cover in fiction, people responsible for the towns'/country's moral compass being probably the worst morally oriented people in the community
I’d love to see a talking about brackenfur! Such an interesting side character and I’d love to see you delve into his relationship with his sisters, sorreltail and dustpelt etc.
@@-luxii- If anything I like him because he's average in a way. He's Some Guy and very down to earth, and also super loyal and willing to take risks (Note Chasing Snowkit after the kit was carried off by a bird and successfully saving another kit during the Great Journey from another one). Maybe he's boring but sometimes you need a character like him when dealing with a colorful cast. His simplicity as a character imo does give him a character, with still some memorial moments.
The whole Squirrelflight's Hope StarClan counsil scene was so weird. Littlecloud was suddenly a very angry and judgemental cat. They blamed Leafpool for something StarClan literally encouraged her to do earlier. Something about the general portrayal of StarClan felt especially off and creepy in that book.
I know I'm late ive been trying to gather my thoughts. As someone with ADD I have a serious love hate relationship with the portrayal of ADD in this book. On one hand the portrayal of Hyperfixation is actually rather accurate. Mothflight starts the book hyperfixating on plants and herbs. Then she meets Micah where she hyperfixates on him! (Yes you can hyperfixate on people!) And when he dies there's that sudden lack of fulfillment that hyperfixation gave her. Then she hyperfixates on her kits. This is really well done! Hyperfixations take over your entire mind and there's nothing you can do to break that. However, it also pushes the narrative that Mothflight was a bad person for struggling to focus and that she's not trying hard enough. It also implies that people with ADD can't be trusted with important tasks (watching the kits) when in reality it's quite the opposite. We are often very observant and pick up on every little detail! (this is shown in the book with the moth) But we will never deliberately mess up on a big task and we will try to put effort into that task. Mothflight is shown to not care so she doesn't put any actual effort into watching the kits.
Moth Flights book is one I basically refuse to read. Warrior cats already has way too many Christian themes that bother the hell out of me, but Moth Flights book is a whole new level of nonsense. Great job! Hope you get an easier cat to cover next! lol I've seen Thrushpelt near the tp of the comments almost everytime so I hope he gets picked soon.
I think Goldenflower would be interesting to talk about. Her husband was evil, and basically killed her son Swiftpaw. Then her children were judged because of Tigerstar, and her daughter left her and their clan. Then she sees her husband brutally murdered. She wasn't with him anymore and didn't love him, but she once did. It still must've hurt.
The “choose to save family or random mildly unpleasant clanmate from death/oh no my clanmate is hurt bad but my family member is also in mild pain but I feel bad idk might ignore the dying guy” scenario happens in Hawkwing’s super edition and he doesn’t even choose his brother, so even when presented with the opportunity to push the “they’ll always choose family” justification, they fail terribly because it makes no sense.
I decided to take a break from asking but i have come back to politely ask if you could talk about Goldenflower at some point. I find that she just sort of. Falls off the face of the earth at some point. She also had Swiftpaw, his origins are not explained. Then she has Bramble and Tawny and suddenly she is now, by association, much more relevant as a barrier between Firestar and his discrimination against Bramble for his dad being an angry murder man. I dunno, either her or Swiftpaw would be interesting I think.
On wiki it says swiftpaw father is patchpelt. So somewhere along the books, goldenflower breaks up with him and goes for tigerclaw. Makes sense cuz patchpelt an elder
There's this extremely prominent theme I've noticed in warrior cats as a whole, which maaaaaaay? Tie into the Christian Fundamentalism? Possibly? But I think it's more of a weird just...ideological thing, something that might not be totally independent of the Christian themes, but what I think is somewhat distinct. And that is the ambition v duty theming that is *everywhere* in these books. Specifically, it's that ambition is almost always seen as evil, or at least in the case of characters like Hollyleaf and *technically* Brambleclaw in spite of his actions, morally grey. And conversely, that anything that cats don't REALLY want to do is seen as noble, just, and inevitably the right thing to do. This is most prominent when comparing typical villain archetypes to medicine cats: almost all villains in the series has power and ambition as a motivation, whereas medicine cats, to which we've never had even a remotely antagonistic one (except maybe Hawkheart I guess? If defending his clan's medicine store counts?), have duty as their primary motivation for their actions. Most other characters fall somewhere between this, but typically, protagonists have things they'd want to do, but they instead choose what they have to do; and antagonists do what they want to do. I think this ties more broadly into why none of the good guys never just sit down and have fun and stuff, but that would be a digression. Primarily, I think that Moth Flight's entire story encapsulates this mindset fully, which is that she is moral and just for just arbitrarily not doing the thing she "wanted" to do, even if she also wanted to be a medicine cat (I think the whole line about her pelt and breath being owned by Starclan which is *extremely creepy* actually illustrates this well - she wants to do the Right Thing, rather than it being out of any passion or anything). She is forced to give up the MEMORY of her dead husband which doesn't do ANYTHING to distract her and if nothing else brings her CLOSER to Starclan, just because she *didn't want to.* The books, in general, I feel, have an obsession with cats giving up their joy, giving up their passions, giving up their desires that don't even hinge on causing harm to others, and saying *that* , that sacrifice, the fact they were willing to give up something they cared about and did it for the so-called greater good, is what proves they are the ultimate good. And I guess if the books are already married to this idea as the proof of morality, it makes sense that the characters who are supposed to be closest to a supposedly infallibly and ultimately good force in the universe (in spite of textual evidence) would be the ones who have to suffer through the most sacrifice. (I think this also explains why everyone hates the idea of the medicine cat role and has to be dragged kicking and screaming into it - it must be the most undesirable, if it is to be the most good to become, according to this train of thought.) Additionally, as much as a medicine cat is a doctor, I really think that plays second fiddle thematically to the duty and spirituality aspects of them, which is why in spite of irl doctors never having this problem, that they do. It's not about their actual job, it's what they represent, I think. I can't help but feel the message of "sacrifice and suffering is morally correct always" in a children's series is an honestly harmful message to send, not to mention just depressing and mean spirited. And that's not even MENTIONING how feminine-coded the medicine cat role tends to be in general (like not always, but up until jayfeather all medicine cat characters who weren't background characters were women), which i can't help but feel, in context to characters like Moth Flight and Leafpool, is giving the message that women must choose between a job and having children. And that while choosing their job *may be* good (maybe in part because of that duty of it), will bring you nothing but misery that you will have to just kinda put up with. Further yet, I think following that message there is the additional implication that, for a woman, a career like a doctor will be inherently miserable, as opposed to having children which will, allegedly, always and unfailingly bring you joy and fulfillment. It's just kind of a messed up scene all around.
also u cant even use the argument that medicine cats r an analogy for things like monks or nuns, because a vow of chastity is purely religious - they try to justify it as a logical decision in warriors (choosing between your kit or a clanmate, the medicine den will be overwhelmed, duty to the clan, etc) when theres really no logic to it in a universe where pregnancy is 2 months, kids can walk and speak from birth, there are usually more than one medicine cats or cats who stay in the nursery, and they dont need constant care from a parent after 6 months
@@iwakeupandboomimarat Vicky Holmes once answered a question on I believe the original warrior cats website before it got revamped (that or a forum) as to why the series is about cats. It was because a "cat series" was commissioned by her publisher, HarperCollins. Vicky described how she was initially disinterested in a series about cats, but once she started thinking of them as "small furry humans", it became more interesting for her and easier to write. From the beginning, this series has never really been about cats, with only nods to cat biology or full acknowledgement if it suits the narrative (which is why characters age so unnaturally quickly). So stuff like the actual independence of cats is not taken into account - it is more illustrative I think to consider the warrior cats as basically humans, as that explains a lot of their behaviors and a lot of the creative writing decisions going into Warriors. Additionally, it's possible they didn't want to make it a "Starclan told you to do this" situation with the Medicine Cats because they didn't want to portray Starclan as controlling (whether or not they succeeded in that being debatable). I think we get the more "practical" reasoning as more of an explanation to the reader as to why all this drama is going on more than anything else.
I absolutely ADORE this comment, you were able to articulate something (or, well, ONE of the things, because this series is a mess) that bothers me a lot about this series. I definitely think there's (fundamentalist?) Christianity baked into the series as a whole, given the themes of duty vs free will + the way the female characters get written + the fact the series has a literal cat hell and cat heaven, both of which (usually) operate on black and white morality applied to whatever these cats did in life. While writing this comment I've realized that Harper Collins' commissioned the Warriors series from Vicky Holmes and Harper Collins ALSO has a whole branch dedicated specifically for Christian publishing. I definitely feel like these two facts are connected in some way.
@@Gildedware Thank you! I did not realize how much Harper Collins works with christian material as a publisher, great point! Although at this point, with all my harping on the themes, I feel compelled to add an obligatory "Not All Religion" and even a "Not All Forms/Interpretations of Christianity" addendum. I don't think it's a problem that warriors is a faith-driven series inherently, nor do I think there's a problem with having a story aimed at younger audiences about that, I think it's more the traditionalist/conservative baggage that Warriors seems quite happy with leaving unquestioned that's the problem. Religion is often used as a vehicle for this, which is probably why it's so baked into warriors, and why the two elements are often difficult to separate, but I believe it's an important distinction between the vector of a problem and the actual problem itself. I fear my original comment could come off as bashing religion and/or christianity as a whole, and that's definitely not what I intended, haha. My point was only to point out that a lot of these seemingly inexplicable themes are coming from explicable viewpoints from the authors and/or publishers, likely in different ratios. I think it's productive to acknowledge warriors as a product of people, rather than say faulting the characters for x traditionlism or y uncomfortable belief. Because these characters aren't people, they're characters, and they're gonna reflect what the authors and publishers think and believe.
@@superflyghtheart Don't worry, I got you!! Yeah, I completely agree with you, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having a series driven by faith (or having a series that borrows aesthetics from Christianity, love it when visual art borrows things from Catholic art), it becomes a problem when you have that traditionalist baggage that then goes unquestioned, especially in a series aimed at children who are even less likely to question it. I find it really important to identify this baggage and talk about it, because a lot of times people might not even notice it's there at all! (this type of thing also happens in a bigger scale, lately I've seen a lot of discussion about cultural Christianity and how it causes you to internalize these traditionalist values even if you yourself are part of another religion, or not religious at all, and you have to pay attention to not end up replicating it without realizing) I feel like another important thing to consider is the specific angle of the Warriors worldbuilding taking things from Native American culture, such as the very title of the 'medicine cats' and other aspects, then using them in a series that's so steeped in Christianity, especially taking the history of colonization (much of it still happening into present day) into account. Yes, it's definitely productive to acknowledge this series as a product of people!! I feel like it explains a lot of the core issues with the series, honestly. Why is there traditionalist baggage baked into the story? Reflection of the views of the authors and editors, (+ Harper Collins, I do wonder how much of an influence HC has on the writing as the publisher) which they haven't or don't want to reflect on. Why are there INCREDIBLY unfortunate things happening with the writing + worldbuilding they do have, like borrowing aspects of indigenous societies and the way the Tribe is written in general? Because the writing team really, REALLY does not think things through and it results in writing that is anti-indigenous, among other things. Why are there inconsistencies in characters/plot/worldbuilding? No time to actually review things since the books are written as quickly as possible without an outline. (I'd love a documentary on how Warriors is written honestly, because it's such an uniquely insane way to write anything. There's like 20 editors?) I feel like considering the story both in-universe and also taking into account who's writing it, in a meta way, makes it even more fun to analyze haha.
Talking about Blackstar might be fun! Absolute garbage man that always seemed like he followed terrible authority because it was easier than standing up to injustice. Also the guy straight up murdered one of his own warriors during the Great Battle. He’s an interesting guy. One of the few modern leaders to never have a mate or kits also. And with the release of his novella we can now add Blackstar to the list of Shadowclan leaders with some kind of daddy issues alongside Raggedstar, Brokenstar, and Tigerstar.
I mean technically he was following the warrior code the entire time. Sure, he could have stood up to injustice, but that would have likely left him a rogue or dead. Neither are good options. He’s one of my favorite leaders because he took his clan, which was not only struggling but the direct villain for several generations and made it something to be proud of. He was a fantastic leader - abrasive but loyal and generally fair - and I’ve never wished for a cat to be alive more than when Rowanstar got beat by some apprentices. Plus, him killing Redwillow would have had to have happened either way. Redwillow was just as disloyal and dangerous as Breezepelt was at that point, and would have probably killed several clan cats had he not faced execution at Blackstar’s paws. I’m now realizing that I’m a Blackstar apologist.
I actually would love to see one on Blackstar. He saw SO MUCH and from a completely different view of the Thunderclan-friendly POV. I wish they'd do a full book as I'd love to get his POV during the Great Battle especially.
Can you please talk about Alderheart? When he was a good ol' chap. He was forced to become a medicine cat, he also had to fight with his constant anxiety and doubts.
*Sigh* Poor Moth Flight. An ADHD character could be so neat to explore properly in Warriors, but the ball got dropped as usual. As someone with a fancy-schmancy, super official ADHD diagnosis, just wanted to confirm that, no, falling in love does not cure the pesky ol' attention problems. Hyper-fixating on a new partner is definitely a thing, but I'm 1000% sure that the Warriors team was not intentionally trying to portray that and was instead doing their usual "this cat's entire personality is now their romantic relationship." I also was disappointed to see Moth Flight portrayed as prone to panic, when studies have shown that people with ADHD are actually better equipped to deal with crisis situations because of our ability to hyperfocus, adapt rapidly, and stay calm due to the different way our brains react to certain hormones during stressful situations. I'd love to see you cover good boy Thrushpelt. I know he's only in one book (oh god, another super edition), but he's a complete foil to Ashfur and, I think, probably one of the most well-adapted characters presented in Warriors.
Her focus on Micah really doesn't reflect her earlier focus on plants, unfortunately. She's basically written as a cat who can pay attention and divide her interests from that point on. Almost like Micah cures her ADHD with his face
_(This is copy-pasted from the Longtail video.)_ I’d personally like to see you cover Fern Leaf from DOTC. She was an abuse victim of Slash and was eventually taken in by Tall Shadow’s group via encouragement from Gray Wing a little while after she met him. She gets close to Wind Runner over time then joins her group when Wind Runner splits off from Tall Shadow’s. Even after leaving Slash’s group she still cared about her friends there. She thought one of them; Bee, was finally coming around only to be pressed to return and attacked when she refused. I just find Fern Leaf’s character so interesting and would love a proper video on her.
@@Krill_Phil DOTC was interesting right up until Starclan magically poofed into existence with all the experience they'd ever need and no bumbling or wrong advice even though they were born five minutes ago.
I'd love hearing you talk about Greywing! Hes such an amazing character and imo DOTC isnt being talked about enough! His relationship with his brother Clearsky is pretty interesting, seeing how they slowly got less closer and eventually even battle eachother!
HOLY THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP HER AUDIOBOOK VOICE! i thought i was alone in thinking the voice was horrible. it really made me dislike her entire book because my ADHD is too bad to read actual books lol (Just to be clear, I love Andrew's narration. He's phenomenal. Just not with moth lol)
Agreed! I love Andrew, his male voices are amazing, but sometimes his female voices are a little ehhh. Moth Flight especially isn’t good. He’s a great narrator though.
I just want someone to tell him to stop squeaking when he plays young children or does high pitched girl voices 😅 I really think he could find a way to give the impression of young without the baby talk and high pitched ear killing sounds.
I’d love you to talk about Sparkpelt. How her character affects everyone else in a seemingly negative way, but it the problem seems to be the way she’s treated by others, not her directly.
I would love to see Brightheart! I’ve always seen her as the sweetest cat in ThunderClan and she has so much going for her! I kinda wish the authors could make her un retire just to give her an apprentice! She is so unique to some of the other cats and I think she deserves a Super edition or at least a novella
Maybe you could talk about Reedfeather? I found his forbidden relationship with Fallowtail to be quite interesting and I wish more books could have mentioned that Greypool and Willowbreeze were half-clan?
I think you should do Icewing! The cat, not the dragon. Shes a really compelling background character! If we’re going off Vicki’s canon, she was the only RiverClan warrior left alive after the dark forest battle, and one of the oldest cats to rebel against the imposter (I think?). For such a minor character, she’s done a LOT. Though most of what can be seen of her is interpretation, Icewing’s cool!
It would be amazing if you’d talk about Star flower. They set her up to be such an interesting character, and she would have made the best antagonist. But then she had kits and her personality just vanished.
@@sandywolfr26 This trope of having a female character who has a character and a personality go from (in Star Flower's case): ' I'm such a sweet girl uwu I'm so innocent- JK I DON'T LIKE YOU THUNDER AND I'M DATING YOUR DAD LOL ' to ' I love being a mother. *smiles blankly* ' is just...not right. She didn't NEED to have kits, why do the cats have to ' prove ' they love each other with kids? Honestly, warrior cats is far beyond the point where I expect them to do the right thing. Like, every female protagonist, except HollyLeaf and TwigBranch, has had a litter of kits. All of them. Leafpool did, Squirrelflight did, Violetshine did and Bristlefrost would have. I bet Sunbeam will get kits with either some other tom in Shadowclan or, as much as I will hate it, Nightheart/Flamepaw. Frostpaw might but I won't count on it. Edit: OBVIOUSLY they can have kids, I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but if they get kids, leave them with their personality! Yes, Squirrelflight, you can stay unique and fiesty, you don't need to be kind and caring and boring now you birthed Alder and Spark.
I would love to hear you talk about Rowanclaw. He went from a pretty feisty (she)cat to a leader that let everyone walk all over him. I know his leadership has been heavily discussed but I want to see more of a focus on the change in his character up to that point/A Vision of Shadows and have a brief talk about it. Also him and Tawnypelt don’t appear to have much chemistry in the beginning from what we the audience could see, especially since they did get together have have kits shortly after that. Also his son being named after a tyrant/evil cat is really . . . interesting.
I’d honestly love to see you talk about Brackenfur. Although being a side character, he was sort of significant in some scenarios. He was Graystripe’s apprentice. Graystripe neglected Brackenpaw(fur)’s training and took more time with Silverstream, so Fireheart became his secret temporary mentor. It’s a shame seeing him then die in the dust so quickly, especially being trained by Fireheart(star). There were many more cases with him like him noticing Snowkit’s deafness and wanting to become his mentor, being one of the stolen kits that Shadowclan stole and even saving Marshkit from a hawk in Dawn. I find it sad to see that he was pushed aside to be a side character, even with the significant moments we’ve had with Brackenfur.
As someone with ADHD, I love ADHD Flight. I love her so very much and she made me oddly enough feel a bit more normal before I realized why I’m different. I love how distractible she is and I love how she likes herbs a lot (meddies are my favorites and I would be a meddie ngl) and I love that I don’t feel alone in feeling like I’m never taken seriously. I dislike Mom Flight. She just isn’t the same post-kits and her decision was really stupid. Our one ADHD rep character is know as a bad one because of her naivety and the fact that the writers just needed to throw in that part to keep things consistent. I want her to be loved because she means a lot to me (warriors is my special interest, sadly) and yet I rarely see her get the positive attention I want her to get 😔
I would love to see a talking video on Whitestorm. I love the relationships in his life, being childhood friends with Tigerclaw, having Bluestar as an aunt and foster mother, Thistleclaw being his dad. I have so many headcannon ideas for how he feels about Tigerclaw and watching him turn into an evil man as they grow up together.
For a character I suggest SorrelTail! For an obscure character she really has a lot happen to her in the course of the books, I mean...she WAS the one DarkStripe, sure, but more harsh stuff went on through her life.. She ofc got poisoned at a very young naive age, she was mentioned to be hit by a car during apprenticeship, stalling her training to be a Warrior, and also the fact she had to watch CinderPelt fend her life while she was kitting. And with this she's mother to very important cats, like CinderHeart
Her death is so sad too. She just wanted to be with her kits even though she was injured. It’s heartbreaking. (I also love how the narrative treated her like she was old when she had Seedpaw and Lilyheart when iirc she was only six years old, like a fairly young cat technically speaking, it’s kind of funny)
I think that Clear sky would be good to talk about. He seems to be the only cat with a proper redemption arc and has some real drama going on. Also, it would be fun to see your perspective of him.
i think it would be interesting to see a video on sleekwhisker. she and needletail left shadowclan to be in darktail's group, she tried to murder her grandma and murdered her best friend because of her loyalty to darktail. i also think her personality is really interesting and her general outlook on life is fascinating to me
Kinda off topic, but the dotc books are so underrated! They are really interesting, and the only terrible thing in them is just---- Gray Wing(imo) I'm sad that most people didn't read them because "it didn't line with the actual series". I once talked to this person who didn't read dotc, and my heart almost broke when they asked "who's Thunder?" Jdbndbd
Can I ask why you don't like Gray Wing? He's my all time favourite character and I feel he was a great warrior (imo) so it's interesting to find someone who disagrees!
@@moonbeamed there's a pretty long reason behind it, and it's mostly the way he treats others- I genuinely hated reading his chapters, he felt very *whiny* to me and literally LEFT Tall shadows camp just because "i NeEd To PrOvE mYsElF eVeN tHo I hAvE nO nEeD to". I don't rlly want to type everything out rn djbdndh
I agree they're my second favourite Warriors series just because it's like a breath of fresh air (one of the problems I had though was the inconsistencies with books like secrets of the clans). I hate seeing people go "Dotc was so bad and weird and random".
I’d love to see you go over Moonflower. Her brother was so “weird” (and let’s face it: no one but Cloudberry knew about what he could do. Of course he seemed strange) Moonflower tried to push him out of her life and the life of her kits. Her life ended in probably the saddest death in any book: bc her mate ran to help another she-cat. The guy she had a crush on since she was basically a kit. The guy she had kits with, left her in the heat of battle to help another girl. I've always had a little spot in my heart for her, and would love for a talking video on her EDIT: after watching this video, I've decided that I will add ”What if Moth Flight kept her kits?” to my What If... Series on Wattpad. I'd start at the beginning, keep Moth’s ADHD a running thing, keep her original personality, etc. Gonna have fun with this one!
could you link ur series here? i'd be interested in reading it! also if youtube decides you can't send links, just tell me ur username, i'll try to find it myself
Who decided in the team that making a child a parent was a good idea? And that's why we have a rule that defines every medicine cat, even if they are older and more able to handle things.
I would like to see you talk about Sol. He's an extremely interesting character, and I feel like he barely had any time in the books. He was smart enough to know that everything couldn't be settled by battles and bloodshed, and he used his knowledge to manipulate cats like the Three and Blackstar.
I would also like to see Brightheart or Goosefeather, especially with Goosefeather's struggle to control his powers and how he sort of began to get desperate and was kind of the cause of Moonflower's death because of his prophecies.
If you haven’t already, I think Badgerfang would be a fairly interesting character to talk about- his arc was short and sweet but it was so memorable for a whole lot of people
i’d like to suggest Ravenpaw! He seems interesting in the way how he was kind of traumatized by Tigerstar and how he watched Redtail die. i also really like his relationship with Barley. i also like in his novella and how he *waits* for Barley to die before he goes to StarClan. But that means Barley believes in StarClan???? Also, i really liked his graphic novel.
It's even better, Ravenpaw straight up *refuses* a place in Starclan because Barley can't be there. And he's assured there'll be a place for both of them, so presumably they're off in a cat heaven of their own.
@@muffinland8660 hm. good point! I thought Barley believed in StarClan, but if we get a Barley novella or Super edition, we just might see into the Kittypet/Rogue/Loner after life!
I’d be interested in a video about Violetshine, like seriously Thunderclan, you couldn’t even fight to keep two orphans together?! And her treatment in Shadowclan, the only cat who cared about her was Needletail, who she watched die! I just find her an interesting character.
Dovewing, I want a long extensive talk about my baby Dovewing. She's dealt with so much as a prophecy cat and just wanted a normal life happy with her sister and didn't get to have that until she leaves her clan for another to escape that for good with Tigerheart who, despite people's opinions on him, IS and was her escape. She's a lot more interesting than people give her credit for, especially with the SUPER WRONG "Mary Sue" thing when she if anything is THE most flawed character in the main series to date (Especially when people try to say her complaining and being whiny is her being a mary sue which... NO??? THAT"S NOT HOW THAT WORKS OH MY GOD *ahem*) and I LOVE her for that. I love her flaws but she has good moments too. She's a extremely flawed character imo and realizing that personally made me bare her a little better as a character and I'm happy that she's finally happy. So yeah, I want a Dovewing talk. I crave it.
the only "you have to choose who to save: random cat or related cat" situation I can think of is Hawkpaw choosing between saving Pebblepaw or Duskpaw, and in that case he chooses not to save his brother and instead saves a cat he doesn't even like very much, because he thinks she needs his help more. if an apprentice is able to make a logical decision in this situation, why wouldn't a fully grown medicine cat be able to do the same?
Can I ask why her specifically? Dappletuft and Harelight went through the same exact thing, and one of them died for it. I don’t think Icewing even had lines. She was just a random name chosen to prove that RiverClan was also suffering from Ashstar’s bullshit
I would love a video about shadowsight. I find him a very well written and interesting character throughout the broken code who didn't really get talked about due to everything going on with Bristlefrost and Rootspring. While it would be a bulkier video considering he's a protagonist, he's only significant for the end of avos to river. If you don't feel like doing a long video like this, then save it for another time! I'm fine with waiting a while for a video on him.
Shadowsight would be great! I think he was a really interesting character too, especially with how the events of TBC kind of happen because of his being manipulated by Ashfur and how he deals with that. Plus it was nice seeing him have a nice relationship with both of his parents for once in warriors xD
I’d love to hear you talk about Hollyleaf! I know you have some unique talking points about her since you used to be an Ashfur fan. I think her character had a lot of potential and was very interesting, but sometimes it feels like the authors botched her characterization. She’s also one of the few female protagonists who never had on official love interest (her relationship with Fallen Leaves is really up to interpretation) also she’s one of kate carys least favourite cats lol
Hi! I love your videos a ton :) Mothflight is one of my favorite characters because of her personality being pretty unique (in my opinion anyways) so I’m very happy you got to talk about her! Could I ask for Feathertail? I love her in A Shadow In Riverclan, and she was my favorite from The New Prophecy. I thought the way she effected Crowfeather was super sweet, and the way she sacrificed herself was one of my favorite moments ever. I also liked how she had friendships in Thunderclan with Ferncloud and some of the other young apprentices. Overall I loved her so much! Thank you SO much for all of these Warrior Cat videos, Moonkitti :) I love them so much
It would be cool if you could do Scourge. I recently read The Rise of Scourge and was kind of surprised that there was so little about him in Warrior Cats seeing as he is (or was) such a popular cat, with all the collar debate and stuff!
I think it would be interesting for you to talk about Lionblaze! Especially given his characterization in The Broken Code. I'm not entirely caught up with the books, but given how his character has shifted since he was a main character is interesting to me.
I personally would love to hear you talk about Goosefeather his whole life is just one big tragedy because Starclan seemed to only use him and while he was constantly told that everyone is special and no one is more special then anyone else his treatment completely contradicts that.
Tbh when I read Moth Flight's vision and hearing your analysis of Moth Flight's decision and rule it really solidified how the medicine cats cant have babies rule makes no sense at all and is kinda depressing in a way tbh. Like just if medicine cats can love platonically and their family it makes no sense why kits are different. Just Moth Flight I think deserved better she went through quite a lot and it feels like the writers really really did her dirty and hurt her by not only taking Micah away but then taking her kits away and (at least in my interpretation) I genuinely felt she was just not mature enough for what she was put through she was really childish in a way about Micah and in making brash decisions without thinking and considering her kits to be above others just paints her as childish but like she could grow but deserved time to. Like she deserved to be treated better and given time to grow and meld into the medicine cat role and keeping her personality from the beginning would have been great to. IDK I just felt reading the book really sad and kinda bitter at the writers cause I kinda felt like she wasnt written to be able to truly embrace what made her special and was instead beaten down until she grew bitter in starclan. (Thats my interpretation at least.) But legit rambling aside this was another vid you hit out of the park your talks really help me gain way more understanding of characters and I love that because im too shy to talk in forums and on chats and stuff so listening to the talks really helps me feel comfortable in what I feel about characters and be able to enjoy them more. I have to say a huge thank you for that honestly!! (Also your art in these vids always makes me smile keep up the awesomeness and the Moth Flight voice killed me XD!) For another talking video I would love to hear your thoughts on Feathertail or Leafpool honestly their some of my top fave cats so hearing you talk about them would be wonderful honestly!
honestly speaking of starflower you should talk about her she was a definite player and played with Thunder, and Clear skys emotion. Then ever since the death of her father she was seeking someone like him which clearly drew her to Clear sky, she was also power hungry but.... In a charming way. So I would love to see a video on her! also great video moon I liked the combination of an I spoil and Talking video
I like how you suggest how weird the audiobooks of warrior cats because Iisten to forest of secrets every night but I can't get through the prologue without laughing from the line "What about the mother"
Probably been said before, but Hawkfrost? He's for sure one of the more loved villains by the fandom and imo had a lot of potential for a redemption arc that never happened
i’m so glad you talked about a DOTC cat !! it’s my favorite warriors series and moth flight is one of my favorite characters 🫶 i loveddddd her super edition, so thank you for the video !!
As someone with adhd, i find it so funny how moth flights adhd is completey forgotten about, like squirrelfs and leafpools sibling telekinesis. Well, the funny thing is that i completely forgot about her adhd untill it was mentioned late in the book.
Also I listen to the audio book for warriors because of my adhd. I absolutely cannot read them because the writing style is so hard to focus on, but the way it's said sounds so much better. A lot of people make fun of moth flights voice for the audio book, but I never really found it that bad. Maccloud Andrew's has so many recognizable voices for yhe characters that I could easily tell who's talking when it's being said. For moth flight he was just trying to sound like a young cat with a feminine voice. It sounds like what he did for Holly leaves as an apprentice. I highly doubt he chose that voice to be "haha disabled cat sounds funny"
i’d love to see a talking video on hawkfrost. i feel like his character (while not accomplishing much & easy to just brush over) is very interesting. the fact he’s the only ‘bad’ tigerstar kit is an interesting concept!
I think a talking about jayfeather video would be pretty nice since he's quite the misunderstood character and he has so many layers, and his relationship with leafpool is a good topic, same with Briarlight
I know jayfeather is a main character but imo and what I've seen, he's one of the least talked about and focused on main characters, and I wanna hear what someone like you has to say about him
I'd suggest you could talk about Leafpool, maybe? I like her just a tiny bit more than Squirrel (though they're definitely in my top tens) and I'd love to hear your opinion on her!
I honestly relate a lot to Moth Flight. Getting distracted while doing tasks, hyper fixating on random things, even her attitude towards other people, where she's judges or "rude" and just saying what she thinks. Thats what I tend to do "not have a filter" and it more often then not comes across as rude to other people. As someone with pretty bad ADHD, her behaviour and actions towards other people doesn't scream rude, it more-so screams a lack of social skills.
Can you talk about Skyheart next? I absolutely love her name and she got a bit of attention in Leoparstar's Honor and Crookedstar's promise, and I just find her interesting. I just like Skyheart :)
Crowfeather would be an excellent subject to discuss, especially his love history. Crowfeather had gone through much, growing up shrouded in his loneliness. He lost the one he loved, Feathertail, but how he developed feelings for Leafpool felt rather rushed and meaningless, only done for the sole purpose of drama. It also would be nice to mention him and Nightcloud. Did he even love her? Same for spiky, edgy Breezebutt. It would be nice to get a clear concept of what you think of Crowfeather's character.
Like I said in the video, I won't do a video on crowfeather. Hes too sensitive a subject and I don't want to rile anyone up. But if you want my general opinion on him? I think, as a person, he sucks fdgdhdg
I would love a video on Leafpool if you haven't already done one! I'm rereading the whole series and I've just gotten to her whole thing with Crowfeather, and I think it's just- an interesting topic to explore. She seems like a cat with a ton of depth being a secondary protagonist in the books at one point.
i am obsessed w the way you add dialogue in your little drawings. its so real like ok well i guess i know these guys completely by your little silly speech bubble now. i feel like i had a science class with gorsefur
without even realizing it, the authors portrayed ADHD perfectly. ADHDers take more time to deal with grief. When she has kits she becomes hyper-fixated on them, so I think everything is perfect about her character
Hawkwing needs more love imo! I skipped over reading his book for awhile, then finally read it and just fell in love with him. His story is interesting and he has actual character development!
Whether it be a Mini-Talking or a full length video, I'd love to see you talk about sweet, loving, ever-re memorable Purdy, who can shoot lasers from his eye-beams. :)))
gosh there are so many cats i'd love to see a video on lol. my favorites are dovewing, ivypool, lionblaze, jayfeather, cinderheart, tigerheart, crookedstar, thunder, gray wing, and clear sky!
What I hate is that Moth Flight is used as the reason why medicine cats can’t have kits, when she was young, already shown to be irresponsible and easily distracted and had FOUR KITS. It would be a struggle for any cat to have four kits without help and ESPECIALLY if their mate was dead like Moth Flight’s was. Moth Flight had the worst situation possible and everyone just said “well guess that means that medicine cats can’t have kits.”
Well she didn’t want the same thing that happened to her to happen to the next generations of med cats.
@@FrostMoon_WoF_WarriorCats but nothing happened to her? she scattered the kits for no reason and this is a situation that could happen to every cat! the issue was lack of older cats to help, not the fact that the medicine cat had kits! every modern clan has enough cats to take care of 10+ kits at a time! leafpools whole thing was that she gave up her kits to SOMEONE ELSE to raise!
@@fluteshrink4191 no, not to happen to the next generations of med cats, I think I just put the comma there an accident and didn’t notice :/
not to mention literally anyone else in the clan could have helped her. it's so frustrating like, why live in a close knit community if you aren't going to act like one!!!
Given the exact point when Moth Flight stopped being the recognizable attention-deficit and hyper-focusing cat, after she came back with this random new cat Micah and they had already been told that they were to be medicine cats, I'm convinced at least part of the reason it was there in the first place was because of her first appearance in Secrets of the Clans. That book started many of the Dawn of the Clans elements, especially Moth Flight. It included the story of her being a distracted cat interested in herbs rather than prey who was banished by her mother for failing to provide for the clan and who found the Moonstone and was named a medicine cat because of that. Once Micah arrived and Moth Flight was returning home, that plotline was over and the story team was all on their own as far as conceiving of a new plot, which might have very well included abandoning the personality and unique circumstances of the original Moth Flight to go all in on the Micah and kits plot to loop in what they also knew to be true from Secrets: that Moth Flight (and Starclan in that book) were the ones to make the rule that medicine cats can't have kits.
Also edit, having seen further into the video, Leafpool's situation is an especially egregious stopping point to any arguments you could make for the "no mate no kits rule." Because, while she never once had any problems with Hollyleaf, Jayfeather, or Lionblaze needing treatment and her being unable to provide it, she *did* showcase in one situation that her personal feelings were making her incapable of treating a patient properly, and it was Cinderpaw. Because Cinderpaw was Cinderpelt and Leafpool was frantic that Cinderpaw would turn out the same way, and simultaneously *wanted* it to turn out the same way so she could speak to her mentor again. Jaypaw as an apprentice had to take over most of the duties of treating her because Leafpool was completely incapacitated by this bonkers situation. But that was her *mentor.* EVERY CAT will have a mentor, medicine cats especially. The idea that you could possibly ever avoid personal biases by not having a mate or kits is absurd beyond reason.
Agreed! It's a very flimsy code in warrior cats and should be changed slightly to where if a medicine cat had a fully trained medicine cat apprentice than they showed be allowed to have a mate and kits while the other medicine cat should take on the their mentors role in the meantime until their mentor is able to work again. Like how human doctors can take maternity leave it should be a thing for warriors as well.
Honestly if this rule didn't exist it would have probably prevented a number of bad things from happening. Like for example if brokenstar was actually raised by yellowfang I'm sure he would have turned out differently, I mean there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have still been awful but, growing up with a loving mother instead of in the care of a queen that hated him seems like it would make some kind of difference.
Also if leafpool got to be the one raising jay, Holly and lion then maybe the ashfur fire scene wouldn't have happened or at least it wouldn't have been as bad? And he probably would have lived to because if hollyleaf knew that her mom was leafpool then she wouldn't have had a reason to freak out about it and kill ashfur.
Really the 'no mates and kits' rule is one of the most pointless ones in the whole series and at this point it feels like it's only there to cause unnecessary drama.
based sunnyfall
@@Noblewynter I’m actually writing an au where brokenstar was raised by yellowfang and she stayed a warrior. lol
Leafpool failing to treat Cinderpaw would have been the perfect example of Moth Flights assumption if it had been Hollypaw or Lionpaw that she froze up over.
It also would have been the perfect example to show that the rule would be defunct as her apprentice stepped in and completed the treatment with no issues.
The worst part of the “save your kit or a warrior” situation is that the warrior code itself says that “no warrior may ignore a kit in need” it just flat out says to choose the kit!
I mean, I think the situation could only be applicable if the "kit" were a warrior too. Still dumb though.
The Warrior Code demands that no kit should be harmed regardless of the clan they come from so the hypothetical scenario where a medicine cat has to choose their kit over a warrior makes no sense, saving the kit is any cats priority
Tbf, that part of the code was made after Moth Flight's time, so that probably wouldn't be a factor.
I think the code also suggested that this would be even when the kits were grown..? Basically saying Medicine cats would choose family over their clanmates. Which still makes no sense but yea.
That's so true!
@@ravem410yeah, because by that logic medicine cats shouldn’t have Siblings or parents either, or friends for that matter
@@loppie_445 this isnt the case for every family, but bonds with children tend to be more protective and worrisome than bonds with other familial roles
29:14 this quote is absolutely horrifying and belongs to some religious cult thriller/horror. How did nobody in the writing team see that abandoning your entire family for a religion is NOT JOYFUL AND IS, IN FACT, TERRIFYING????? How is "all of me now belongs to these dead people who most of I don't even know" a good thing in the slightest????
The Warriors team manages to paint StarClan as truly horrifying and the true villains of the series again and again and all of it's by accident!
Frs it feels like the religious cult horror movies we see, where the villains kill or do nasty things to the people because “Jesus told them to”
warrior cats couldve been revolutionary if starclan was actually criticised but alas. the writers believe a kitty cat religion has to be the center of their morality and no one can question it
Starclan is always been bad though. Like some of their own prophecies in their own things they do actively cause more harm than any good they ever have done. I would argue that they are the villain.
@@Topdoggie7 i absolutely agree w u but i think the narrative barely ever refuses to address this, especially in earlier books. even now theyre reluctant to say that starclans ever been wrong lol
@@iwakeupandboomimarat That's because religious people never want to admit God in the bible is a narcissistic person manipulating his children. They wrote awful behavior and can't admit their God injection is bad or reads badly.
I am the daughter of an actual doctor and ever since I was little I always saw this idea that warriors tried to convey that "doctors can't have kids because it would get in the way of helping people in need" as really weird. Yes, my dad has an extremely important job and usually works long hours, but it's not like he never has time for his family. Of course, applying warriors' logic to real life is dumb but it's still a weird message that the books try so desperately to shove down your throat. The ONLY times when my father could not work was when he had to take time off for his own health and safety, and never because his family got in the way of his job. He is a hard-working man and to say that a doctor, or any essential worker, is somehow detrimental because they have children to care for at home just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
honestly!! both my parents have been in essential worker jobs but like. they still had time for me lmao
Moth Flight’s Vision is imo one of the clearest examples of the series drawing on Christianity to its serious detriment tbh. As we’ve seen, the series has become far more anthropomorphic over time, meaning things that could be explained away easier if the cats were more feral - unreasonable clan hostility for example - become in turn increasingly silly and out of touch. The same applies to the religion they’ve created for this universe.
The writing team has no time to integrate concepts that naturally blend into the already established universe, so they pull on real world values and traditions to use as literary short hand for xyz. Why are the medicine cats not allowed to have relationships? It’s short hand for piety. It’s to show that these cats are ‘different’ and more special with their connections to the afterlife. That’s it. And if that really was just the background flavor, it wouldn’t be as much of an actual problem because it’s not intended to be justified in universe. The problem is when you try to do just that. MFV tries and fails to justify the medicine cat rule, and the reason it fumbles so badly is due to the fact that their religion is pseudo Christianity projected onto a universe where it makes absolutely no sense. They didn’t take the time to enrich their world building and instead relied on easy short hand, which becomes blatantly obvious whenever they try to take any time to explain the behavior. Because we know it makes no sense, there’s no way they can make it make sense since the religion they’ve drawn on is so incompatible with the community they’ve written.
As my gf just quaintly put: almost Christianity is hard to justify when your Christ figure is basically your dead grandma. ‘I need wisdom, so I shall pray to crazy uncle Steve. May he Rest In Peace. ✌️’
Gf had another interesting thought: Moth Flight being so obsessive/fixated on Micah + kits can def be characterized as shifting hyperfixations tbH. It makes a lot of sense that an adult with ADHD (as my gf and I are) could have a lot of trouble regulating her fixations as a parent (NOT to imply ADHD parents can’t be wonderful and responsible not at all, just that I can see myself with that struggle in that position etc etc). The split in attention between her children and her duties would be very relatable…
HOWEVER. A character with VERY SPECIFIC struggles should noT be the arbiter of ‘who can have kits/relationships.’ Also not just. Dumping the children and traumatizing them. Pls. Do not do this.
@@Answeredriddle THIS IS WHAT I WAS THINKING!!
While she does shift focus to Micah, it's not with the same distracted air that she has earlier in the book. Her perspective changes entirely at that point, unfortunately. So while I did consider it, she's not being hindered by her new interest in boys the same way she was by her old interest in plant.
@@Moonkitti Oh yeah naw I agree it’s 100000% unintentional, we were just slightly amused at the concept given our own experiences with ADHD pffft. Gf has never read the book but they were just ‘AH. Being in charge as a child of another smaller child and getting distracted and letting the flora babysit the child instead. Relatable.’
It’s a fun idea but yeah absolutely was not intended following the introduction of Micah given the change in writing.
I don't think it's pulled from Christianity. Catholicism, maybe, but I think Confucianism is more like it. The Christ figure in your scenario is more like the latter half of Confucianism, where by the descendants must preform rituals (aka going to the moonstone/pool) to gain knowledge from the deceased.
The mothflight audiobook voice is hysterical I think Andrew does great with a majority of his characters in the audiobooks but….. omg
she is terrible 😂
@@Ivypool123 I don’t know why they didn’t just go with a female voiceactor?? Squirrelflight’s hope has a pretty good voiceover
Characters like Moth Flight's mother Wind Runner have excellent voices despite being female characters. I have no idea what was going on when he chose Moth Flight's...
@@Moonkitti it fits her
@@Moonkitti maybe his brain stopped working😂😂
Could I ask for Crookedstar? His life was super interesting and Rainflower’s treatment of him is the reason he was tricked by Mapleshade anyway. And he lost so much but was still a strong leader for Riverclan. He’s one of my favorite leaders :)
He is the best example of how having a tragic life doesn't automatically make someone bad. You still have a chance to do right.
Yes!
@@lucilucid I think he was a well written character and gave a good lesson.
@@kaitopedestrian Exactly. When it comes to villains, a lot of people say their actions are justifiable and/or inevitable because they had something bad happen to them. This is problematic and kind of the reason why some people with tragic lives are avoided. People are afraid of them going 'bad' and see them as dangerous. Crookedstar had so much bad happen to him and he had every chance to become a Tigerstar but he didn't. He struggled but got himself on track, living a long happy life. Having bad things happen to you doesn't mean you can't have a good life in the long run.
@@lucilucid He lost his mom, his dad, his brother to forbidden love, his leader, his wife, his two daughters, and his other daughter way later. He suffered so much but he was still hopeful and didn’t immediately fall to the dark like Tigerstar.
I'd suggest you'd talk about Thrushpelt!
Maybe a minitalk or so I think hes such a good boi after all with him being such a supportive and accepting friend to Bluefur playing an important role in her life and acting so different to rejection than like Ashfur or Bumblestripe
Totally agree with you!
+1 to this!
Please please please, Thrushpelt is such a stand-out angel baby that I wonder if the Warriors team wrote him that way accidentally.
Trushpelt is a very good boi! He deserves a video
Yesss
My suggestion is for barley. He seems like a fun guy and I want to know your opinions on him. That or echo’song, another medicine cat who was trained by ghosts.
I love both of those characters! Echosong doesn’t get enough attention!
@Wolfish 🤨Whatever could you mean?
Echosong*
@Wolfish ew
@Wolfish ravenpaw was a teenager when he met barley, who was a fully grown adult. :)
I wish they'd focused more on the religious aspect of the rule than the "logical" reasons for it. There isn't really a logical reason for it - But real life nuns and monks chose to not have children.
It's actually interesting if you look at medieval europe, how many queer people were nuns or monks. Becoming a nun meant escaping from the expectations the world placed on you, and that's enticing for many people.
I guess that's not normal enough for Warrior Cats though. Can't have a woman who doesn't want kids!
It's also interesting in some specific cultures. In Poland monks and nuns were very often law escapees as many rules prevented the law enforcement to act in religious places. Some of these rules included not being allowed to arrest anyone in church (so many criminals hid in them) as well as nuns, monks and priests being basically untouchable their entire life, even if they had very heavy criminal history. It was such a widespread problem a famous Polish writer created a whole dark comedy book that criticised how monks and nuns are basically always drunk, immoral and violent people. The book was so outrageous it was banned which the author responded to the situation by.. making another book in which he sarcastically painted a picture of a "perfect" religious community and criticised censorship
I truly believe this aspect is such an unused and interesting mechanic to cover in fiction, people responsible for the towns'/country's moral compass being probably the worst morally oriented people in the community
@@billcipher8645what are the names of the books? They sound interesting
I’d love to see a talking about brackenfur! Such an interesting side character and I’d love to see you delve into his relationship with his sisters, sorreltail and dustpelt etc.
But Moonkitti hates Brackenfur. But i would like to see a talking about brackenfur.😀
@@Cooltime922 thats exactly why
That's an *interesting* take on Brackenfur.
Most people think Brackenfur is boring, but I actually kinda like him!
@@-luxii- If anything I like him because he's average in a way. He's Some Guy and very down to earth, and also super loyal and willing to take risks (Note Chasing Snowkit after the kit was carried off by a bird and successfully saving another kit during the Great Journey from another one). Maybe he's boring but sometimes you need a character like him when dealing with a colorful cast. His simplicity as a character imo does give him a character, with still some memorial moments.
The whole Squirrelflight's Hope StarClan counsil scene was so weird. Littlecloud was suddenly a very angry and judgemental cat. They blamed Leafpool for something StarClan literally encouraged her to do earlier. Something about the general portrayal of StarClan felt especially off and creepy in that book.
I know we didn't see him for long but I would love a mini-talking on Snowtuft.
Yes! His personality was so interesting!
vouch
So true.
YES
Yes he was so interesting then he died
I can’t stop laughing about the voice for Moth Flight 😂
“WhY DoN’T tHeY HeLp hER???”
Moonkitti is right, it’s like they’re mocking her
I know I'm late ive been trying to gather my thoughts. As someone with ADD I have a serious love hate relationship with the portrayal of ADD in this book.
On one hand the portrayal of Hyperfixation is actually rather accurate. Mothflight starts the book hyperfixating on plants and herbs. Then she meets Micah where she hyperfixates on him! (Yes you can hyperfixate on people!) And when he dies there's that sudden lack of fulfillment that hyperfixation gave her. Then she hyperfixates on her kits. This is really well done! Hyperfixations take over your entire mind and there's nothing you can do to break that.
However, it also pushes the narrative that Mothflight was a bad person for struggling to focus and that she's not trying hard enough.
It also implies that people with ADD can't be trusted with important tasks (watching the kits) when in reality it's quite the opposite. We are often very observant and pick up on every little detail! (this is shown in the book with the moth) But we will never deliberately mess up on a big task and we will try to put effort into that task. Mothflight is shown to not care so she doesn't put any actual effort into watching the kits.
Me: “My mother is a veterinarian and I’m her child that and that’s not illegal”
Mothflight: * slowly pulls out gun *
Moth Flights book is one I basically refuse to read. Warrior cats already has way too many Christian themes that bother the hell out of me, but Moth Flights book is a whole new level of nonsense.
Great job! Hope you get an easier cat to cover next! lol I've seen Thrushpelt near the tp of the comments almost everytime so I hope he gets picked soon.
I think Goldenflower would be interesting to talk about. Her husband was evil, and basically killed her son Swiftpaw. Then her children were judged because of Tigerstar, and her daughter left her and their clan. Then she sees her husband brutally murdered. She wasn't with him anymore and didn't love him, but she once did. It still must've hurt.
The “choose to save family or random mildly unpleasant clanmate from death/oh no my clanmate is hurt bad but my family member is also in mild pain but I feel bad idk might ignore the dying guy” scenario happens in Hawkwing’s super edition and he doesn’t even choose his brother, so even when presented with the opportunity to push the “they’ll always choose family” justification, they fail terribly because it makes no sense.
Could you talk about Tall Shadow!! She went through so much in DOTC and deserved POV chapters more than Thunder did imo
I decided to take a break from asking but i have come back to politely ask if you could talk about Goldenflower at some point. I find that she just sort of. Falls off the face of the earth at some point. She also had Swiftpaw, his origins are not explained. Then she has Bramble and Tawny and suddenly she is now, by association, much more relevant as a barrier between Firestar and his discrimination against Bramble for his dad being an angry murder man. I dunno, either her or Swiftpaw would be interesting I think.
On wiki it says swiftpaw father is patchpelt. So somewhere along the books, goldenflower breaks up with him and goes for tigerclaw. Makes sense cuz patchpelt an elder
So she went from bad to worse, ehhhhh
There's this extremely prominent theme I've noticed in warrior cats as a whole, which maaaaaaay? Tie into the Christian Fundamentalism? Possibly? But I think it's more of a weird just...ideological thing, something that might not be totally independent of the Christian themes, but what I think is somewhat distinct. And that is the ambition v duty theming that is *everywhere* in these books. Specifically, it's that ambition is almost always seen as evil, or at least in the case of characters like Hollyleaf and *technically* Brambleclaw in spite of his actions, morally grey. And conversely, that anything that cats don't REALLY want to do is seen as noble, just, and inevitably the right thing to do. This is most prominent when comparing typical villain archetypes to medicine cats: almost all villains in the series has power and ambition as a motivation, whereas medicine cats, to which we've never had even a remotely antagonistic one (except maybe Hawkheart I guess? If defending his clan's medicine store counts?), have duty as their primary motivation for their actions. Most other characters fall somewhere between this, but typically, protagonists have things they'd want to do, but they instead choose what they have to do; and antagonists do what they want to do. I think this ties more broadly into why none of the good guys never just sit down and have fun and stuff, but that would be a digression.
Primarily, I think that Moth Flight's entire story encapsulates this mindset fully, which is that she is moral and just for just arbitrarily not doing the thing she "wanted" to do, even if she also wanted to be a medicine cat (I think the whole line about her pelt and breath being owned by Starclan which is *extremely creepy* actually illustrates this well - she wants to do the Right Thing, rather than it being out of any passion or anything). She is forced to give up the MEMORY of her dead husband which doesn't do ANYTHING to distract her and if nothing else brings her CLOSER to Starclan, just because she *didn't want to.* The books, in general, I feel, have an obsession with cats giving up their joy, giving up their passions, giving up their desires that don't even hinge on causing harm to others, and saying *that* , that sacrifice, the fact they were willing to give up something they cared about and did it for the so-called greater good, is what proves they are the ultimate good. And I guess if the books are already married to this idea as the proof of morality, it makes sense that the characters who are supposed to be closest to a supposedly infallibly and ultimately good force in the universe (in spite of textual evidence) would be the ones who have to suffer through the most sacrifice. (I think this also explains why everyone hates the idea of the medicine cat role and has to be dragged kicking and screaming into it - it must be the most undesirable, if it is to be the most good to become, according to this train of thought.) Additionally, as much as a medicine cat is a doctor, I really think that plays second fiddle thematically to the duty and spirituality aspects of them, which is why in spite of irl doctors never having this problem, that they do. It's not about their actual job, it's what they represent, I think.
I can't help but feel the message of "sacrifice and suffering is morally correct always" in a children's series is an honestly harmful message to send, not to mention just depressing and mean spirited. And that's not even MENTIONING how feminine-coded the medicine cat role tends to be in general (like not always, but up until jayfeather all medicine cat characters who weren't background characters were women), which i can't help but feel, in context to characters like Moth Flight and Leafpool, is giving the message that women must choose between a job and having children. And that while choosing their job *may be* good (maybe in part because of that duty of it), will bring you nothing but misery that you will have to just kinda put up with. Further yet, I think following that message there is the additional implication that, for a woman, a career like a doctor will be inherently miserable, as opposed to having children which will, allegedly, always and unfailingly bring you joy and fulfillment. It's just kind of a messed up scene all around.
also u cant even use the argument that medicine cats r an analogy for things like monks or nuns, because a vow of chastity is purely religious - they try to justify it as a logical decision in warriors (choosing between your kit or a clanmate, the medicine den will be overwhelmed, duty to the clan, etc) when theres really no logic to it in a universe where pregnancy is 2 months, kids can walk and speak from birth, there are usually more than one medicine cats or cats who stay in the nursery, and they dont need constant care from a parent after 6 months
@@iwakeupandboomimarat Vicky Holmes once answered a question on I believe the original warrior cats website before it got revamped (that or a forum) as to why the series is about cats. It was because a "cat series" was commissioned by her publisher, HarperCollins. Vicky described how she was initially disinterested in a series about cats, but once she started thinking of them as "small furry humans", it became more interesting for her and easier to write. From the beginning, this series has never really been about cats, with only nods to cat biology or full acknowledgement if it suits the narrative (which is why characters age so unnaturally quickly). So stuff like the actual independence of cats is not taken into account - it is more illustrative I think to consider the warrior cats as basically humans, as that explains a lot of their behaviors and a lot of the creative writing decisions going into Warriors. Additionally, it's possible they didn't want to make it a "Starclan told you to do this" situation with the Medicine Cats because they didn't want to portray Starclan as controlling (whether or not they succeeded in that being debatable). I think we get the more "practical" reasoning as more of an explanation to the reader as to why all this drama is going on more than anything else.
I absolutely ADORE this comment, you were able to articulate something (or, well, ONE of the things, because this series is a mess) that bothers me a lot about this series. I definitely think there's (fundamentalist?) Christianity baked into the series as a whole, given the themes of duty vs free will + the way the female characters get written + the fact the series has a literal cat hell and cat heaven, both of which (usually) operate on black and white morality applied to whatever these cats did in life. While writing this comment I've realized that Harper Collins' commissioned the Warriors series from Vicky Holmes and Harper Collins ALSO has a whole branch dedicated specifically for Christian publishing. I definitely feel like these two facts are connected in some way.
@@Gildedware Thank you! I did not realize how much Harper Collins works with christian material as a publisher, great point! Although at this point, with all my harping on the themes, I feel compelled to add an obligatory "Not All Religion" and even a "Not All Forms/Interpretations of Christianity" addendum. I don't think it's a problem that warriors is a faith-driven series inherently, nor do I think there's a problem with having a story aimed at younger audiences about that, I think it's more the traditionalist/conservative baggage that Warriors seems quite happy with leaving unquestioned that's the problem. Religion is often used as a vehicle for this, which is probably why it's so baked into warriors, and why the two elements are often difficult to separate, but I believe it's an important distinction between the vector of a problem and the actual problem itself. I fear my original comment could come off as bashing religion and/or christianity as a whole, and that's definitely not what I intended, haha. My point was only to point out that a lot of these seemingly inexplicable themes are coming from explicable viewpoints from the authors and/or publishers, likely in different ratios. I think it's productive to acknowledge warriors as a product of people, rather than say faulting the characters for x traditionlism or y uncomfortable belief. Because these characters aren't people, they're characters, and they're gonna reflect what the authors and publishers think and believe.
@@superflyghtheart Don't worry, I got you!! Yeah, I completely agree with you, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having a series driven by faith (or having a series that borrows aesthetics from Christianity, love it when visual art borrows things from Catholic art), it becomes a problem when you have that traditionalist baggage that then goes unquestioned, especially in a series aimed at children who are even less likely to question it. I find it really important to identify this baggage and talk about it, because a lot of times people might not even notice it's there at all! (this type of thing also happens in a bigger scale, lately I've seen a lot of discussion about cultural Christianity and how it causes you to internalize these traditionalist values even if you yourself are part of another religion, or not religious at all, and you have to pay attention to not end up replicating it without realizing)
I feel like another important thing to consider is the specific angle of the Warriors worldbuilding taking things from Native American culture, such as the very title of the 'medicine cats' and other aspects, then using them in a series that's so steeped in Christianity, especially taking the history of colonization (much of it still happening into present day) into account.
Yes, it's definitely productive to acknowledge this series as a product of people!! I feel like it explains a lot of the core issues with the series, honestly. Why is there traditionalist baggage baked into the story? Reflection of the views of the authors and editors, (+ Harper Collins, I do wonder how much of an influence HC has on the writing as the publisher) which they haven't or don't want to reflect on. Why are there INCREDIBLY unfortunate things happening with the writing + worldbuilding they do have, like borrowing aspects of indigenous societies and the way the Tribe is written in general? Because the writing team really, REALLY does not think things through and it results in writing that is anti-indigenous, among other things. Why are there inconsistencies in characters/plot/worldbuilding? No time to actually review things since the books are written as quickly as possible without an outline. (I'd love a documentary on how Warriors is written honestly, because it's such an uniquely insane way to write anything. There's like 20 editors?)
I feel like considering the story both in-universe and also taking into account who's writing it, in a meta way, makes it even more fun to analyze haha.
Talking about Blackstar might be fun! Absolute garbage man that always seemed like he followed terrible authority because it was easier than standing up to injustice. Also the guy straight up murdered one of his own warriors during the Great Battle. He’s an interesting guy. One of the few modern leaders to never have a mate or kits also.
And with the release of his novella we can now add Blackstar to the list of Shadowclan leaders with some kind of daddy issues alongside Raggedstar, Brokenstar, and Tigerstar.
I mean technically he was following the warrior code the entire time. Sure, he could have stood up to injustice, but that would have likely left him a rogue or dead. Neither are good options. He’s one of my favorite leaders because he took his clan, which was not only struggling but the direct villain for several generations and made it something to be proud of. He was a fantastic leader - abrasive but loyal and generally fair - and I’ve never wished for a cat to be alive more than when Rowanstar got beat by some apprentices. Plus, him killing Redwillow would have had to have happened either way. Redwillow was just as disloyal and dangerous as Breezepelt was at that point, and would have probably killed several clan cats had he not faced execution at Blackstar’s paws.
I’m now realizing that I’m a Blackstar apologist.
@@songbird6414 Being a Blackstar apologist is fair, his book really makes you see his point of view and how much the people around him sucked.
I actually would love to see one on Blackstar. He saw SO MUCH and from a completely different view of the Thunderclan-friendly POV. I wish they'd do a full book as I'd love to get his POV during the Great Battle especially.
Can you please talk about Alderheart? When he was a good ol' chap. He was forced to become a medicine cat, he also had to fight with his constant anxiety and doubts.
I appreciate the kind words for my son
@@ExPrism happy to help my brother
*Sigh* Poor Moth Flight. An ADHD character could be so neat to explore properly in Warriors, but the ball got dropped as usual. As someone with a fancy-schmancy, super official ADHD diagnosis, just wanted to confirm that, no, falling in love does not cure the pesky ol' attention problems. Hyper-fixating on a new partner is definitely a thing, but I'm 1000% sure that the Warriors team was not intentionally trying to portray that and was instead doing their usual "this cat's entire personality is now their romantic relationship." I also was disappointed to see Moth Flight portrayed as prone to panic, when studies have shown that people with ADHD are actually better equipped to deal with crisis situations because of our ability to hyperfocus, adapt rapidly, and stay calm due to the different way our brains react to certain hormones during stressful situations.
I'd love to see you cover good boy Thrushpelt. I know he's only in one book (oh god, another super edition), but he's a complete foil to Ashfur and, I think, probably one of the most well-adapted characters presented in Warriors.
Her focus on Micah really doesn't reflect her earlier focus on plants, unfortunately. She's basically written as a cat who can pay attention and divide her interests from that point on. Almost like Micah cures her ADHD with his face
_(This is copy-pasted from the Longtail video.)_
I’d personally like to see you cover Fern Leaf from DOTC.
She was an abuse victim of Slash and was eventually taken in by Tall Shadow’s group via encouragement from Gray Wing a little while after she met him. She gets close to Wind Runner over time then joins her group when Wind Runner splits off from Tall Shadow’s. Even after leaving Slash’s group she still cared about her friends there. She thought one of them; Bee, was finally coming around only to be pressed to return and attacked when she refused.
I just find Fern Leaf’s character so interesting and would love a proper video on her.
I’d love to see this too!
ohhh oh it'd be soo coool to see this!! I havent read DOTC but this sounds cool!
@@CobaltCreations I’d 100% recommend reading it. It’s my favourite Warriors arc and has some of my favourite characters.
YEESSS
You are a genius. Fernleaf is an awesome character
@@Krill_Phil DOTC was interesting right up until Starclan magically poofed into existence with all the experience they'd ever need and no bumbling or wrong advice even though they were born five minutes ago.
I'd love hearing you talk about Greywing! Hes such an amazing character and imo DOTC isnt being talked about enough! His relationship with his brother Clearsky is pretty interesting, seeing how they slowly got less closer and eventually even battle eachother!
HOLY THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP HER AUDIOBOOK VOICE! i thought i was alone in thinking the voice was horrible. it really made me dislike her entire book because my ADHD is too bad to read actual books lol
(Just to be clear, I love Andrew's narration. He's phenomenal. Just not with moth lol)
Agreed! I love Andrew, his male voices are amazing, but sometimes his female voices are a little ehhh. Moth Flight especially isn’t good. He’s a great narrator though.
I love Andrew's Wind Runner voice. But the falsetto feels mean.
he's got too deep a voice for the young female characters
I just want someone to tell him to stop squeaking when he plays young children or does high pitched girl voices 😅 I really think he could find a way to give the impression of young without the baby talk and high pitched ear killing sounds.
@@Birchlead Sometimes he voices younger females just fine! Idk why he would choose to do this to his voice for an entire super edition lmao
I’d love you to talk about Sparkpelt. How her character affects everyone else in a seemingly negative way, but it the problem seems to be the way she’s treated by others, not her directly.
I would love to see Brightheart! I’ve always seen her as the sweetest cat in ThunderClan and she has so much going for her! I kinda wish the authors could make her un retire just to give her an apprentice! She is so unique to some of the other cats and I think she deserves a Super edition or at least a novella
Brightheart is arguably best girl
@@fairycat23 definitely!
Maybe you could talk about Reedfeather? I found his forbidden relationship with Fallowtail to be quite interesting and I wish more books could have mentioned that Greypool and Willowbreeze were half-clan?
IVE ALWAYS REALLY LOVED REEDFEATHER YESSS
I think you should do Icewing! The cat, not the dragon. Shes a really compelling background character!
If we’re going off Vicki’s canon, she was the only RiverClan warrior left alive after the dark forest battle, and one of the oldest cats to rebel against the imposter (I think?). For such a minor character, she’s done a LOT. Though most of what can be seen of her is interpretation, Icewing’s cool!
I really thought you meant the wings of fire tribe icewings lol 💀
It would be amazing if you’d talk about Star flower. They set her up to be such an interesting character, and she would have made the best antagonist. But then she had kits and her personality just vanished.
Tbh having kits and having their personality vanished is what all the female characters do lol
@@sandywolfr26 This trope of having a female character who has a character and a personality go from (in Star Flower's case): ' I'm such a sweet girl uwu I'm so innocent- JK I DON'T LIKE YOU THUNDER AND I'M DATING YOUR DAD LOL ' to ' I love being a mother. *smiles blankly* ' is just...not right.
She didn't NEED to have kits, why do the cats have to ' prove ' they love each other with kids? Honestly, warrior cats is far beyond the point where I expect them to do the right thing. Like, every female protagonist, except HollyLeaf and TwigBranch, has had a litter of kits. All of them. Leafpool did, Squirrelflight did, Violetshine did and Bristlefrost would have. I bet Sunbeam will get kits with either some other tom in Shadowclan or, as much as I will hate it, Nightheart/Flamepaw. Frostpaw might but I won't count on it.
Edit: OBVIOUSLY they can have kids, I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but if they get kids, leave them with their personality! Yes, Squirrelflight, you can stay unique and fiesty, you don't need to be kind and caring and boring now you birthed Alder and Spark.
I would love to hear you talk about Rowanclaw. He went from a pretty feisty (she)cat to a leader that let everyone walk all over him. I know his leadership has been heavily discussed but I want to see more of a focus on the change in his character up to that point/A Vision of Shadows and have a brief talk about it. Also him and Tawnypelt don’t appear to have much chemistry in the beginning from what we the audience could see, especially since they did get together have have kits shortly after that. Also his son being named after a tyrant/evil cat is really . . . interesting.
Can I ask for Tallstar or Whitestorm? They're both interesting characters and I'd love to hear your input!
I’d honestly love to see you talk about Brackenfur. Although being a side character, he was sort of significant in some scenarios.
He was Graystripe’s apprentice. Graystripe neglected Brackenpaw(fur)’s training and took more time with Silverstream, so Fireheart became his secret temporary mentor. It’s a shame seeing him then die in the dust so quickly, especially being trained by Fireheart(star). There were many more cases with him like him noticing Snowkit’s deafness and wanting to become his mentor, being one of the stolen kits that Shadowclan stole and even saving Marshkit from a hawk in Dawn. I find it sad to see that he was pushed aside to be a side character, even with the significant moments we’ve had with Brackenfur.
As someone with ADHD, I love ADHD Flight. I love her so very much and she made me oddly enough feel a bit more normal before I realized why I’m different. I love how distractible she is and I love how she likes herbs a lot (meddies are my favorites and I would be a meddie ngl) and I love that I don’t feel alone in feeling like I’m never taken seriously. I dislike Mom Flight. She just isn’t the same post-kits and her decision was really stupid. Our one ADHD rep character is know as a bad one because of her naivety and the fact that the writers just needed to throw in that part to keep things consistent. I want her to be loved because she means a lot to me (warriors is my special interest, sadly) and yet I rarely see her get the positive attention I want her to get 😔
I would love to see a talking video on Whitestorm. I love the relationships in his life, being childhood friends with Tigerclaw, having Bluestar as an aunt and foster mother, Thistleclaw being his dad. I have so many headcannon ideas for how he feels about Tigerclaw and watching him turn into an evil man as they grow up together.
For a character I suggest SorrelTail!
For an obscure character she really has a lot happen to her in the course of the books, I mean...she WAS the one DarkStripe, sure, but more harsh stuff went on through her life..
She ofc got poisoned at a very young naive age, she was mentioned to be hit by a car during apprenticeship, stalling her training to be a Warrior, and also the fact she had to watch CinderPelt fend her life while she was kitting.
And with this she's mother to very important cats, like CinderHeart
Her death is so sad too. She just wanted to be with her kits even though she was injured. It’s heartbreaking.
(I also love how the narrative treated her like she was old when she had Seedpaw and Lilyheart when iirc she was only six years old, like a fairly young cat technically speaking, it’s kind of funny)
I think that Clear sky would be good to talk about. He seems to be the only cat with a proper redemption arc and has some real drama going on. Also, it would be fun to see your perspective of him.
i think it would be interesting to see a video on sleekwhisker. she and needletail left shadowclan to be in darktail's group, she tried to murder her grandma and murdered her best friend because of her loyalty to darktail. i also think her personality is really interesting and her general outlook on life is fascinating to me
Kinda off topic, but the dotc books are so underrated! They are really interesting, and the only terrible thing in them is just---- Gray Wing(imo)
I'm sad that most people didn't read them because "it didn't line with the actual series". I once talked to this person who didn't read dotc, and my heart almost broke when they asked "who's Thunder?" Jdbndbd
Can I ask why you don't like Gray Wing? He's my all time favourite character and I feel he was a great warrior (imo) so it's interesting to find someone who disagrees!
YES a fellow gray wing hater. i feel like i just encountered another member of an endangered species. he's such a self centered jerk
@BlueGoldGacha sorry, I just don't bdkdhdn
@@moonbeamed there's a pretty long reason behind it, and it's mostly the way he treats others- I genuinely hated reading his chapters, he felt very *whiny* to me and literally LEFT Tall shadows camp just because "i NeEd To PrOvE mYsElF eVeN tHo I hAvE nO nEeD to". I don't rlly want to type everything out rn djbdndh
I agree they're my second favourite Warriors series just because it's like a breath of fresh air (one of the problems I had though was the inconsistencies with books like secrets of the clans). I hate seeing people go "Dotc was so bad and weird and random".
I’d love to see you go over Moonflower. Her brother was so “weird” (and let’s face it: no one but Cloudberry knew about what he could do. Of course he seemed strange) Moonflower tried to push him out of her life and the life of her kits. Her life ended in probably the saddest death in any book: bc her mate ran to help another she-cat. The guy she had a crush on since she was basically a kit. The guy she had kits with, left her in the heat of battle to help another girl. I've always had a little spot in my heart for her, and would love for a talking video on her
EDIT: after watching this video, I've decided that I will add ”What if Moth Flight kept her kits?” to my What If... Series on Wattpad. I'd start at the beginning, keep Moth’s ADHD a running thing, keep her original personality, etc. Gonna have fun with this one!
could you link ur series here? i'd be interested in reading it!
also if youtube decides you can't send links, just tell me ur username, i'll try to find it myself
Who decided in the team that making a child a parent was a good idea? And that's why we have a rule that defines every medicine cat, even if they are older and more able to handle things.
You’re talking about the writers who decided that the clans committing genocide against a group of pregnant nomads was a great idea
I would like to see you talk about Sol. He's an extremely interesting character, and I feel like he barely had any time in the books. He was smart enough to know that everything couldn't be settled by battles and bloodshed, and he used his knowledge to manipulate cats like the Three and Blackstar.
I would also like to see Brightheart or Goosefeather, especially with Goosefeather's struggle to control his powers and how he sort of began to get desperate and was kind of the cause of Moonflower's death because of his prophecies.
If you haven’t already, I think Badgerfang would be a fairly interesting character to talk about- his arc was short and sweet but it was so memorable for a whole lot of people
i’d like to suggest Ravenpaw! He seems interesting in the way how he was kind of traumatized by Tigerstar and how he watched Redtail die. i also really like his relationship with Barley. i also like in his novella and how he *waits* for Barley to die before he goes to StarClan. But that means Barley believes in StarClan???? Also, i really liked his graphic novel.
It's even better, Ravenpaw straight up *refuses* a place in Starclan because Barley can't be there. And he's assured there'll be a place for both of them, so presumably they're off in a cat heaven of their own.
@@muffinland8660 hm. good point! I thought Barley believed in StarClan, but if we get a Barley novella or Super edition, we just might see into the Kittypet/Rogue/Loner after life!
I’d be interested in a video about Violetshine, like seriously Thunderclan, you couldn’t even fight to keep two orphans together?! And her treatment in Shadowclan, the only cat who cared about her was Needletail, who she watched die! I just find her an interesting character.
Dovewing, I want a long extensive talk about my baby Dovewing. She's dealt with so much as a prophecy cat and just wanted a normal life happy with her sister and didn't get to have that until she leaves her clan for another to escape that for good with Tigerheart who, despite people's opinions on him, IS and was her escape. She's a lot more interesting than people give her credit for, especially with the SUPER WRONG "Mary Sue" thing when she if anything is THE most flawed character in the main series to date (Especially when people try to say her complaining and being whiny is her being a mary sue which... NO??? THAT"S NOT HOW THAT WORKS OH MY GOD *ahem*) and I LOVE her for that. I love her flaws but she has good moments too. She's a extremely flawed character imo and realizing that personally made me bare her a little better as a character and I'm happy that she's finally happy.
So yeah, I want a Dovewing talk. I crave it.
Could you talk about BlackStar? I find his upbringing interesting and he was accepted by star-clan even though he's a literal war criminal.
the only "you have to choose who to save: random cat or related cat" situation I can think of is Hawkpaw choosing between saving Pebblepaw or Duskpaw, and in that case he chooses not to save his brother and instead saves a cat he doesn't even like very much, because he thinks she needs his help more. if an apprentice is able to make a logical decision in this situation, why wouldn't a fully grown medicine cat be able to do the same?
A talking about Tawnypelt would be interesting, her precious relationship with Shadowkit and the discrimination she went through
Can we get Icewing next? She was exiled from Riverclan for awhile and she needs to be talked about
Can I ask why her specifically? Dappletuft and Harelight went through the same exact thing, and one of them died for it. I don’t think Icewing even had lines. She was just a random name chosen to prove that RiverClan was also suffering from Ashstar’s bullshit
@@songbird6414 She spoke to shadowsight. But that is a good idea. All three of them would be cool.
I would love a video about shadowsight. I find him a very well written and interesting character throughout the broken code who didn't really get talked about due to everything going on with Bristlefrost and Rootspring. While it would be a bulkier video considering he's a protagonist, he's only significant for the end of avos to river. If you don't feel like doing a long video like this, then save it for another time! I'm fine with waiting a while for a video on him.
Shadowsight would be great! I think he was a really interesting character too, especially with how the events of TBC kind of happen because of his being manipulated by Ashfur and how he deals with that. Plus it was nice seeing him have a nice relationship with both of his parents for once in warriors xD
Leafpool being like actually I treat everybody better than my own kits on 28:12 is why Moonkittis humor never fails
Brambleberry has been one of my favourites for a long time, I find her very interesting. Maybe her for the next video?
I’d love to hear you talk about Hollyleaf! I know you have some unique talking points about her since you used to be an Ashfur fan. I think her character had a lot of potential and was very interesting, but sometimes it feels like the authors botched her characterization. She’s also one of the few female protagonists who never had on official love interest (her relationship with Fallen Leaves is really up to interpretation) also she’s one of kate carys least favourite cats lol
Hi! I love your videos a ton :) Mothflight is one of my favorite characters because of her personality being pretty unique (in my opinion anyways) so I’m very happy you got to talk about her!
Could I ask for Feathertail? I love her in A Shadow In Riverclan, and she was my favorite from The New Prophecy. I thought the way she effected Crowfeather was super sweet, and the way she sacrificed herself was one of my favorite moments ever. I also liked how she had friendships in Thunderclan with Ferncloud and some of the other young apprentices. Overall I loved her so much! Thank you SO much for all of these Warrior Cat videos, Moonkitti :) I love them so much
yesss her friendship with ferncloud is probably one of my favorite friendships out of the whole series!!
I know!
It would be cool if you could do Scourge. I recently read The Rise of Scourge and was kind of surprised that there was so little about him in Warrior Cats seeing as he is (or was) such a popular cat, with all the collar debate and stuff!
I recognized the audio book voice and giggled so much. I love that guy's voice but I agree his choice of voice for Moth Flight was hilarious.
I think it would be interesting for you to talk about Lionblaze! Especially given his characterization in The Broken Code. I'm not entirely caught up with the books, but given how his character has shifted since he was a main character is interesting to me.
I personally would love to hear you talk about Goosefeather his whole life is just one big tragedy because Starclan seemed to only use him and while he was constantly told that everyone is special and no one is more special then anyone else his treatment completely contradicts that.
Tbh when I read Moth Flight's vision and hearing your analysis of Moth Flight's decision and rule it really solidified how the medicine cats cant have babies rule makes no sense at all and is kinda depressing in a way tbh. Like just if medicine cats can love platonically and their family it makes no sense why kits are different. Just Moth Flight I think deserved better she went through quite a lot and it feels like the writers really really did her dirty and hurt her by not only taking Micah away but then taking her kits away and (at least in my interpretation) I genuinely felt she was just not mature enough for what she was put through she was really childish in a way about Micah and in making brash decisions without thinking and considering her kits to be above others just paints her as childish but like she could grow but deserved time to. Like she deserved to be treated better and given time to grow and meld into the medicine cat role and keeping her personality from the beginning would have been great to. IDK I just felt reading the book really sad and kinda bitter at the writers cause I kinda felt like she wasnt written to be able to truly embrace what made her special and was instead beaten down until she grew bitter in starclan. (Thats my interpretation at least.)
But legit rambling aside this was another vid you hit out of the park your talks really help me gain way more understanding of characters and I love that because im too shy to talk in forums and on chats and stuff so listening to the talks really helps me feel comfortable in what I feel about characters and be able to enjoy them more. I have to say a huge thank you for that honestly!! (Also your art in these vids always makes me smile keep up the awesomeness and the Moth Flight voice killed me XD!)
For another talking video I would love to hear your thoughts on Feathertail or Leafpool honestly their some of my top fave cats so hearing you talk about them would be wonderful honestly!
honestly speaking of starflower you should talk about her she was a definite player and played with Thunder, and Clear skys emotion. Then ever since the death of her father she was seeking someone like him which clearly drew her to Clear sky, she was also power hungry but.... In a charming way. So I would love to see a video on her! also great video moon I liked the combination of an I spoil and Talking video
THE MOTH FLIGHT VOICE IM CRYING
Moth Flight saw her own problems and instead of addressing them she projected them upon generations of unrelated cats
I'd like to see a talking on Toadfoot. He's not a particularly well-known side character, but he does appear in some important parts of the series.
I like how you suggest how weird the audiobooks of warrior cats because Iisten to forest of secrets every night but I can't get through the prologue without laughing from the line
"What about the mother"
Micah as Micah from RDR2 has to be my favorite little joke/comparison that you’ve ever done.
Probably been said before, but Hawkfrost? He's for sure one of the more loved villains by the fandom and imo had a lot of potential for a redemption arc that never happened
Ah yes, squeaky baby voice Moth Flight even as a grown adult. like that's literally the kitten voice
i’m so glad you talked about a DOTC cat !! it’s my favorite warriors series and moth flight is one of my favorite characters 🫶 i loveddddd her super edition, so thank you for the video !!
moth flight sounds like my grandma in the audiobook
As someone with adhd, i find it so funny how moth flights adhd is completey forgotten about, like squirrelfs and leafpools sibling telekinesis. Well, the funny thing is that i completely forgot about her adhd untill it was mentioned late in the book.
Also I listen to the audio book for warriors because of my adhd. I absolutely cannot read them because the writing style is so hard to focus on, but the way it's said sounds so much better.
A lot of people make fun of moth flights voice for the audio book, but I never really found it that bad. Maccloud Andrew's has so many recognizable voices for yhe characters that I could easily tell who's talking when it's being said. For moth flight he was just trying to sound like a young cat with a feminine voice. It sounds like what he did for Holly leaves as an apprentice. I highly doubt he chose that voice to be "haha disabled cat sounds funny"
i’d love to see a talking video on hawkfrost. i feel like his character (while not accomplishing much & easy to just brush over) is very interesting. the fact he’s the only ‘bad’ tigerstar kit is an interesting concept!
"THE SPY, ACORN FUR, IS RIGHT BEHIND YOU!" I cannot un-see Acornfur with a tiny knife now.
I think a talking about jayfeather video would be pretty nice since he's quite the misunderstood character and he has so many layers, and his relationship with leafpool is a good topic, same with Briarlight
I know jayfeather is a main character but imo and what I've seen, he's one of the least talked about and focused on main characters, and I wanna hear what someone like you has to say about him
I'd suggest you could talk about Leafpool, maybe? I like her just a tiny bit more than Squirrel (though they're definitely in my top tens) and I'd love to hear your opinion on her!
I honestly relate a lot to Moth Flight. Getting distracted while doing tasks, hyper fixating on random things, even her attitude towards other people, where she's judges or "rude" and just saying what she thinks. Thats what I tend to do "not have a filter" and it more often then not comes across as rude to other people.
As someone with pretty bad ADHD, her behaviour and actions towards other people doesn't scream rude, it more-so screams a lack of social skills.
Moth flight is my favorite warrior cat thanks for doing this ❤
That drawing of Blue Whisker crying breaks my heart for no reason
perfect timing! i was looking for a vid to listen to while i was finishing some drawings :)
Can you talk about Skyheart next? I absolutely love her name and she got a bit of attention in Leoparstar's Honor and Crookedstar's promise, and I just find her interesting.
I just like Skyheart :)
Crowfeather would be an excellent subject to discuss, especially his love history. Crowfeather had gone through much, growing up shrouded in his loneliness. He lost the one he loved, Feathertail, but how he developed feelings for Leafpool felt rather rushed and meaningless, only done for the sole purpose of drama. It also would be nice to mention him and Nightcloud. Did he even love her? Same for spiky, edgy Breezebutt. It would be nice to get a clear concept of what you think of Crowfeather's character.
Like I said in the video, I won't do a video on crowfeather. Hes too sensitive a subject and I don't want to rile anyone up. But if you want my general opinion on him? I think, as a person, he sucks fdgdhdg
I would love a video on Leafpool if you haven't already done one! I'm rereading the whole series and I've just gotten to her whole thing with Crowfeather, and I think it's just- an interesting topic to explore. She seems like a cat with a ton of depth being a secondary protagonist in the books at one point.
i am obsessed w the way you add dialogue in your little drawings. its so real like ok well i guess i know these guys completely by your little silly speech bubble now. i feel like i had a science class with gorsefur
"We look like a fried egg together" LMAO my beloved fried egg couple
I am so intrigued by what you would have to say about my favorite plot device Antpelt
thrushpelt or redtail!! two cool dudes from the best era of thunderclan that didn’t get enough book coverage!!
You using Micah from RDR2 killed me 😂😂 literally I think of him anytime they bring up Micah in the book!
without even realizing it, the authors portrayed ADHD perfectly. ADHDers take more time to deal with grief. When she has kits she becomes hyper-fixated on them, so I think everything is perfect about her character
Ads are so weird, just popping in out of nowhere.
Moonkitti: I hate this-
*HONOR HEALTH.*
Hawkwing needs more love imo! I skipped over reading his book for awhile, then finally read it and just fell in love with him. His story is interesting and he has actual character development!
I’d love it if you could talk about nightstar! Especially since he got his own manga recently!
SHAKING AND CRYING OMGG MOON KITTI SSJSJJSUSUEUDU I LOVE U AND THESE BIDEOS IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY WHEN TOU POST ABOUT SHCNXARACTERS AUAHHAAH
You should talk about whitewing and birchfall, he was one of the kits to make the journey and whitening had an interesting childhood
Whether it be a Mini-Talking or a full length video, I'd love to see you talk about sweet, loving, ever-re memorable Purdy, who can shoot lasers from his eye-beams. :)))
gosh there are so many cats i'd love to see a video on lol. my favorites are dovewing, ivypool, lionblaze, jayfeather, cinderheart, tigerheart, crookedstar, thunder, gray wing, and clear sky!