I think what Paul forgot to mention is the purpose of those VU meters on preamps. As far as I understand it they show how much of a signal is there. I.e. maybe a very low signal so people should not expect to hear much. Or maybe a very high level which goes into the red area of the VU meter. Then the signal is too high and the output will be distorted - at least that's the way I understand it.
I just love the big VU / Watt meters. Got them on my Accuphase and it gives a sense of the headroom I suppose, usefull at really dynamic recordings. Like track 18 on the reference disk of the Audiophile guide. I so love that track, the dynamics and sound of the drums are outstanding, in general the DSD sound quality is as promised by Paul.
Well I put retro style VU meters on my DIY tube preamp just because like you said, they look cool. But then I actually found them very useful. My DAC can overload the preamp front end and frequently does with streaming services where levels are all over the place. So I have a gain adjustment on the DAC and I can set that for the optimum signal level based on the preamp VU meters. It's just a matter of calibrating the meters where zero represents preamp clipping.
In fact, VUmeters are a must for preamps and consoles in recording studios. They indicate audio signal strength (from the preamp input(s) ), and also the point when these signals get close to 'clipping', resulting in overloading and distortion. In old recording equipment ( i.e. large tape decks), they were the only indication of how good a recording could be. In modern domestic preamplifiers (for home use), they're purely cosmetic as they don't indicate the output of the preamp level, but the incoming signal variations. In doing so, they're not controlled by the volume pot of the preamp.
Both my Nakamichi 600 tape deck and 610 preamplifier has VU meters, which are most useful when recording to tape or setting output levels to avoid clipping in playback. And they look cool as well as being functional. Thanks as always for the informed info and entertainment Paul.
Hi Paul! Thanks for this video. Here's an unrelated question for you. I have surround sound speakers but no receiver. Can I DIY build a controller/receiver to utilize the speakers, or should I just toss them?
I have a bunch of old VU meters that would have come out of busted test equipment, stereo stuff etc. I love to put them in everything, so that they bounce along to my sequencers while I make music.
I designed a Power Amp once with a Watt meter that included a rotary switch to check a number of the Amps internal Voltages, I found it useful and would recommend it. Each resistor was adjusted so that it would reach a single line on the meter - you could simply and quickly rotate the switch to check that each voltage reading would hit the line. The Amps were used for live performances.
VU meters have to be calibrated against some reference level. Back in the days of analog tape, that reference level was a level tone on a calibration tape. The meters were set to 0 VU at a reference fluxivity when the level tone on the calibration tape was played back. There are, of course, calibration records, so you could set the meters to 0 VU when the level tone was played back from the calibration record. Digital audio has a reference point: 0 dBFS. So the question in my mind is: does anyone bother to set their meters to a known reference level?
The meters are vital for making recording. For old school analog recorders they can indicate when the soft crash of tape saturation occurs and the need to back off a bit. However, too low of a recording level and the noise floor becomes intrusive. It's all a balancing act. For digital recording, it's even more crucial as a hard crash occurs when you run out of bits (oversimplification, I know) and the recording goes completely to . . . hotel (International Radiophony Spelling Alphabet; keep it family friendly). The ideal situation, from an Old Dude's perspective, is to have the swinging needles of true VU meters with their relatively slow ballistics to keep an eye on the general situation in progress plus green-green-green-yellow-red arrays of fast acting, peak signal LEDs in parallel. Best of both worlds. 'Blue eyes' VU and power meters are indeed way cool. The heart wants what it wants. =//=OldDudesStillRock
I have Mcintosh pre amp and power amp. Both have meters. When I compare the output shown on each unit it looks exactly the same. I always assumed the power amp was showing watt out put but I’m not sure if the pre amp is showing volume if its reading is the same as the power amp? Or am I missing the point?
I enjoy the VU meters on my headphone amp (SPL Phonitor 2) for their visual confirmation of what my ears tell me, for example that my cartridge azimuth is pretty reasonable (observed when playing a mono record) or observing how dynamic (or not!) different masterings are.
i think, that if it's parallel connection then mesured parameter will be voltage and it will be only the matter of scalling the meter. to mesure the power (watts), the current must also be measured or resistance must be known P=U*I=U^2/R. secondly many pre-amps drive the amp by modulating voltage on their own outputs and that is how they 'know'. excercise. connect pre-amp 'OUT' to a tape recorder 'IN' and tape recorder 'OUT' to amp 'IN', press record and use record level as a pre-amp. now translate dB to Watts and voila. obviously this may raise another question... how the tape redorder knows this?
I guess the 100% point being the cutoff for most power the amp can put out without clipping or distortion is the only real use of VU Meter on power or integrated amps. Negative decibel does not make sense as well since 0 dB is the threshold of hearing. The units are confusing in VU Meters. But yes, they are COOL \m/
@@OWEN-CASH Check out some internet pictures of 'Tonewinner' or look for some vids on TH-cam. Prob not polite to have links. Let me know what you find eh?
My monoblocks have 1 switch, the power on or off switch. An LED indicator glows red if their connected to the mains, but turned off and glows green mid turned on and functioning normally! My preamp has 3 controls. Power, which turns a red LED to green. A source selector and a volume or gain control. No meters, no fancy lights Etc. I know when I’ve set the desired volume, when my ears tell me it’s loud enough! I know when I’ve sellected the correct component, when that disk or vinyl is playing. The display panel on my CD player extinguished last year, but the unit is still perfectly functional and I’ve never felt the need to rectify the issue. I built my system to listen to the music it reproduces, not to look at. Not that I’m criticising those that enjoy the visual aesthetics of their gear. Vig
And most people would be upset if the meter on their power amp had actual "VU Meter ballistics"! They are averaged and not peak reading! Intentionally slow to responding to peaks. "Rising from no signal to 99% of "0 VU" when a 1 kHz sine wave tone is applied for 300 milliseconds."
This VU meters are build in some preamps equipped with sophisticated loudness correction - I have it not as separate for each channel but as one common . It shows signal from early stage which has separate "pure" volume control to to set adequate for loudness correction signal delivered to main preamp potentiometer working with loudness control . Should be set to average "0dB" to secure tone changes as required by loudness circuitry and shows no changes of indication when turning main volume It is a must in high class preamp with loudness control because without it correction is else to small or too big, some confuse happens with speakers sensitivity too. .Using for such purpose two meters is simply not justified.
If you like to 'view' moving meters, you can build a pair (or more) into a project box and connect them to your system. For anything other than recording or playback levels, I find them irritating.
They are kind of handy, especially when things go wrong. You select a source (on your preamp), wind up the volume & nothing, why??? If you have some meters you can tell if the preamp is outputting, so the problem is downstream etc. etc. etc.
“Mick-intosh” - not how the folks in Binghamton say it but “Shtuder” is likely correct so I won’t quibble. Shades of PORSH v PORSHA. Meters outside of tape recorders are pretty much eye candy. Very nice eye candy, though.
My preference is no. Given the dB range should be in the design and setup then it's not really needed after installation or troubleshoot. A mA/volt is very useful for bias and checking the ageing of tubes but in normal use - no. The only reason a watt meter exists on a class A power amp is to make it look like it's doing something visually (otherwise it looks like a heavy, large, hot lump). For me - no lights, no meters moving and no screens. I may tolerate a low dim LED (not a super bright) and a mA/volt meter during tuning/bias. Just give me the music and only interrupt if the system detects a problem.
They are cool for about 2 minutes, I had a McIntosh power amp , and used to tape the whole thing off (flap of paper over it) didn't care for the distraction 😂
I don't understand why Paul always refers to McIntosh as MickIntosh. Seems like nothing more than a juvenile attempt at derision. Whatever happened to professional courtesy? I've never heard anyone at McIntosh refer to him as Paul MickGowan. I'd expect a man his age to be a bit more mature.
In case it isn't obvious, most of the videos on this channel are infomercials. And marketing-wise, very successful ones. The rest of it is as useful as "Dear Abby." Relax and enjoy the fantasy.
Why not just claim that all art, and anything nice looking is a waste of money? Why pay extra for a nice looking car? Or a nice painting? I like VU meters. They look cool and make me happy. Is my pleasure and happiness a waste of money??
0db is the point you don't want to go past on a VU meter. Any more and your getting into overload territory. They are very useful in pro audio, broadcasting and recording. Infact there isn't a piece of audio equipment in that industry that doesn't have a VU meter. So yes they are very useful.
I'd put VU meters on a toaster if I could, just because.
I never even thought about this topic with regard to amplifiers versus preamp’s. Thanks for the explanation Paul.
A big brushed alloy facia, load of buttons and knobs and BIG vu meters - COOL !
That's for sure!
Fun fact: The seven boxes Paul is leaning on, feature four combinations of power socket/power switch. Despite all of them having the same form factor.
I think what Paul forgot to mention is the purpose of those VU meters on preamps. As far as I understand it they show how much of a signal is there. I.e. maybe a very low signal so people should not expect to hear much. Or maybe a very high level which goes into the red area of the VU meter. Then the signal is too high and the output will be distorted - at least that's the way I understand it.
1:34
There's something therapeutic about VU Meters 👌🏽
I just love the big VU / Watt meters. Got them on my Accuphase and it gives a sense of the headroom I suppose, usefull at really dynamic recordings. Like track 18 on the reference disk of the Audiophile guide. I so love that track, the dynamics and sound of the drums are outstanding, in general the DSD sound quality is as promised by Paul.
I love those meters on my Accuphase power amp. There’s something nostalgic about them and they do give an indication of dynamics.
My Ayima t-9 has one warmly lit VU meter. It's nice to watch, like a tiny little 1" fireplace.
The main reason for having a VU Meter on a preamp is for not to distort the analog signal and do not overload the input of the Amp.
Well I put retro style VU meters on my DIY tube preamp just because like you said, they look cool. But then I actually found them very useful. My DAC can overload the preamp front end and frequently does with streaming services where levels are all over the place. So I have a gain adjustment on the DAC and I can set that for the optimum signal level based on the preamp VU meters. It's just a matter of calibrating the meters where zero represents preamp clipping.
In fact, VUmeters are a must for preamps and consoles in recording studios.
They indicate audio signal strength (from the preamp input(s) ), and also the point when these signals get close to 'clipping', resulting in overloading and distortion.
In old recording equipment ( i.e. large tape decks), they were the only indication of how good a recording could be.
In modern domestic preamplifiers (for home use), they're purely cosmetic as they don't indicate the output of the preamp level, but the incoming signal variations.
In doing so, they're not controlled by the volume pot of the preamp.
Both my Nakamichi 600 tape deck and 610 preamplifier has VU meters, which are most useful when recording to tape or setting output levels to avoid clipping in playback. And they look cool as well as being functional. Thanks as always for the informed info and entertainment Paul.
Rarer still, those large meters on the power amps - that measures watts instead of "dB volts at 600 ohms" - that seemed to disappear around 1985.
Loved the romantic lighted VU meters on my thechnics SE A100 amplifier which also comes with a headphone jack
Hi Paul! Thanks for this video.
Here's an unrelated question for you. I have surround sound speakers but no receiver. Can I DIY build a controller/receiver to utilize the speakers, or should I just toss them?
I have a bunch of old VU meters that would have come out of busted test equipment, stereo stuff etc. I love to put them in everything, so that they bounce along to my sequencers while I make music.
Great answer. Thanks.
I designed a Power Amp once with a Watt meter that included a rotary switch to check a number of the Amps internal Voltages, I found it useful and would recommend it. Each resistor was adjusted so that it would reach a single line on the meter - you could simply and quickly rotate the switch to check that each voltage reading would hit the line. The Amps were used for live performances.
peak meters are useful on recorders
Good to know. I’ll take a peak.
The letters VU stand for what? Voltage Units? Thanks for correcting me if you know the answer.
VU meters have to be calibrated against some reference level. Back in the days of analog tape, that reference level was a level tone on a calibration tape. The meters were set to 0 VU at a reference fluxivity when the level tone on the calibration tape was played back. There are, of course, calibration records, so you could set the meters to 0 VU when the level tone was played back from the calibration record. Digital audio has a reference point: 0 dBFS. So the question in my mind is: does anyone bother to set their meters to a known reference level?
The meters are vital for making recording. For old school analog recorders they can indicate when the soft crash of tape saturation occurs and the need to back off a bit. However, too low of a recording level and the noise floor becomes intrusive. It's all a balancing act. For digital recording, it's even more crucial as a hard crash occurs when you run out of bits (oversimplification, I know) and the recording goes completely to . . . hotel (International Radiophony Spelling Alphabet; keep it family friendly). The ideal situation, from an Old Dude's perspective, is to have the swinging needles of true VU meters with their relatively slow ballistics to keep an eye on the general situation in progress plus green-green-green-yellow-red arrays of fast acting, peak signal LEDs in parallel. Best of both worlds.
'Blue eyes' VU and power meters are indeed way cool. The heart wants what it wants. =//=OldDudesStillRock
I have Mcintosh pre amp and power amp. Both have meters. When I compare the output shown on each unit it looks exactly the same. I always assumed the power amp was showing watt out put but I’m not sure if the pre amp is showing volume if its reading is the same as the power amp? Or am I missing the point?
I enjoy the VU meters on my headphone amp (SPL Phonitor 2) for their visual confirmation of what my ears tell me, for example that my cartridge azimuth is pretty reasonable (observed when playing a mono record) or observing how dynamic (or not!) different masterings are.
Thanks so much, Paul. Ya just learned me. Very cool information. ✌️🎶🤣🔊
i think, that if it's parallel connection then mesured parameter will be voltage and it will be only the matter of scalling the meter. to mesure the power (watts), the current must also be measured or resistance must be known P=U*I=U^2/R. secondly many pre-amps drive the amp by modulating voltage on their own outputs and that is how they 'know'. excercise. connect pre-amp 'OUT' to a tape recorder 'IN' and tape recorder 'OUT' to amp 'IN', press record and use record level as a pre-amp. now translate dB to Watts and voila. obviously this may raise another question... how the tape redorder knows this?
Sounds like I need both
where important to me back in the day making mix tapes. not so much anymore I can tell when something is being under / over driven.
damn, i love vu meters, love to see them shake
Unity gain when set in a PA system will give some Indication of power
Never seen preamp with VU meter. Unless it’s a tube preamp and meters are there for bias purposes.
If it's a bias meter then it's not a VU meter.
@@TheMirolab It could be. It’s not a rarity btw. Case in point, Willsenton R-800i. Dual level/bias meter-VU.
I guess the 100% point being the cutoff for most power the amp can put out without clipping or distortion is the only real use of VU Meter on power or integrated amps. Negative decibel does not make sense as well since 0 dB is the threshold of hearing. The units are confusing in VU Meters. But yes, they are COOL \m/
Very interesting topic. Thank you
Saw a line of Chinese amps and they had 'UV' meters. You can't make this up.
To let you know if they're getting too much sun, obviously.
@@TheNorliss yes of course. Don’t want your amps getting a tan, of course because they will sound darker.
@@OWEN-CASH Check out some internet pictures of 'Tonewinner' or look for some vids on TH-cam. Prob not polite to have links. Let me know what you find eh?
@@OWEN-CASH lol, no worries. Doesn't give you much confidence in quality control now does it?
@@OWEN-CASH If it was a first generation McIntosh with a misprint it'd prob be worth a fortune, somehow, these don't give me the same feeling.
My monoblocks have 1 switch, the power on or off switch. An LED indicator glows red if their connected to the mains, but turned off and glows green mid turned on and functioning normally! My preamp has 3 controls. Power, which turns a red LED to green. A source selector and a volume or gain control. No meters, no fancy lights Etc. I know when I’ve set the desired volume, when my ears tell me it’s loud enough! I know when I’ve sellected the correct component, when that disk or vinyl is playing. The display panel on my CD player extinguished last year, but the unit is still perfectly functional and I’ve never felt the need to rectify the issue.
I built my system to listen to the music it reproduces, not to look at. Not that I’m criticising those that enjoy the visual aesthetics of their gear. Vig
Old vintage preamp Technics su 2 has VU meters
Also McIntosh preamps.
And most people would be upset if the meter on their power amp had actual "VU Meter ballistics"! They are averaged and not peak reading! Intentionally slow to responding to peaks. "Rising from no signal to 99% of "0 VU" when a 1 kHz sine wave tone is applied for 300 milliseconds."
Bought an eq with three colour led vus. Run a preout to it. Just for the fun.
VU meters are good visuals. Lots of nobs to fiddle with are good entertainment as well. Distracts from the music.
We need more VU meters on amplifiers. I miss them.
VU meters on an amp will tell you if it is clipping if they are correctly set up.
This VU meters are build in some preamps equipped with sophisticated loudness correction - I have it not as separate for each channel but as one common . It shows signal from early stage which has separate "pure" volume control to to set adequate for loudness correction signal delivered to main preamp potentiometer working with loudness control . Should be set to average "0dB" to secure tone changes as required by loudness circuitry and shows no changes of indication when turning main volume It is a must in high class preamp with loudness control because without it correction is else to small or too big, some confuse happens with speakers sensitivity too. .Using for such purpose two meters is simply not justified.
If you like to 'view' moving meters, you can build a pair (or more) into a project box and connect them to your system.
For anything other than recording or playback levels, I find them irritating.
It ain’t hi-fi without Vu
They are kind of handy, especially when things go wrong. You select a source (on your preamp), wind up the volume & nothing, why??? If you have some meters you can tell if the preamp is outputting, so the problem is downstream etc. etc. etc.
“Mick-intosh” - not how the folks in Binghamton say it but “Shtuder” is likely correct so I won’t quibble. Shades of PORSH v PORSHA. Meters outside of tape recorders are pretty much eye candy. Very nice eye candy, though.
My preference is no. Given the dB range should be in the design and setup then it's not really needed after installation or troubleshoot. A mA/volt is very useful for bias and checking the ageing of tubes but in normal use - no. The only reason a watt meter exists on a class A power amp is to make it look like it's doing something visually (otherwise it looks like a heavy, large, hot lump).
For me - no lights, no meters moving and no screens. I may tolerate a low dim LED (not a super bright) and a mA/volt meter during tuning/bias. Just give me the music and only interrupt if the system detects a problem.
Mickintosh… lol, Mickgowan🤣🤣🤣
In eBay or AliExpress there's bunch of VU meters diy kits. To be honest I have never tried one
Just more bells and whistles lol 😂!
Eye Fi appeal .... True RMS power meters yes ... good idea though .
The number of Whats about Hifi diminishes as your knowledge of it increases.
Hehe.. Yep, I've got a much lower whatage rating as the years go by:)
They are cool for about 2 minutes, I had a McIntosh power amp , and used to tape the whole thing off (flap of paper over it) didn't care for the distraction 😂
Say watt?
I don't understand why Paul always refers to McIntosh as MickIntosh. Seems like nothing more than a juvenile attempt at derision. Whatever happened to professional courtesy? I've never heard anyone at McIntosh refer to him as Paul MickGowan. I'd expect a man his age to be a bit more mature.
Agreed, he has taken subtle cheap shots at competitors in several of his videos.
In case it isn't obvious, most of the videos on this channel are infomercials. And marketing-wise, very successful ones. The rest of it is as useful as "Dear Abby." Relax and enjoy the fantasy.
Well, call it a pet peeve. Everyone calls it Macintosh whin in fact it is Mcintosh.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Yeah, like the apples are always pronounced mick IN tosh? Like this: th-cam.com/video/zhs2NKKfPb4/w-d-xo.html
@@jimshaw899 Fair enough.
VU meters are useless.
waste of money.
Why not just claim that all art, and anything nice looking is a waste of money? Why pay extra for a nice looking car? Or a nice painting? I like VU meters. They look cool and make me happy. Is my pleasure and happiness a waste of money??
@@TheMirolab it's just my personal opinion.
I prefer the money is spend on the best sq possible
0db is the point you don't want to go past on a VU meter. Any more and your getting into overload territory. They are very useful in pro audio, broadcasting and recording. Infact there isn't a piece of audio equipment in that industry that doesn't have a VU meter. So yes they are very useful.