🔴 10 BIGGEST Problems with Tesla FSD V12 🔴
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Why do I still disengage Tesla FSD nearly every drive--and how hard will it be for Tesla to fix each problem? The top three could prove a challenge for the Tesla AI team!
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🔴 10 BIGGEST Problems with Tesla FSD V12 🔴
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The far left lane is for fast moving traffic. It's bad edicate to drive the speed limit or less in the fast lane. How long it takes is determined by average speed not top speed.
Learning should be city by city where the car is registered and driven. These algorithms can be imported by incoming vehicles from other cities.
I agree with these 3: more assertive on turns, improve lane selection and better navigation.
I am with your wife. You come across as an impatient driver. I would much prefer FSD on chill to never change lanes unless the lane is at least 10mph slower, and the next turn is far enough away to enxhurr easy return to the desired lane. I want to minimize stress not time.
I completely agree. As a long time retired professional driving instructor, I would say Dr. Know-it-all is overly aggressive, and the last thing we need is FSD to drive like him. It would scare most typical drivers that have not developed his, hopefully, high level of driving skills. I believe that Tesla is correct to not adopt the Dr's points.
BTW, I am an aggressive driver too. I drive high performance vehicles daily and am assertive on the highway, but ...
When I'm not in a hurry, which is most of the time, I use the cruise control, even in stop start traffic in town. There is no point to being 'switched on' all the time, as it just stresses a driver that the people around them. When (if) I buy a car with FSD I will enable it when I want Tesla to do the driving and relax. If I want to be driven more aggressively, I'll do the driving, thank you!
Exactly. John wants fsd to drive like him. That's not at all good. Fsd needs to drive so that it has accidents 1000 times less than good human drivers.
The irony of his comments about local knowledge, aggressive lane changes and smart routing is that he admits that in a strange city he doesn't care. Of course!! John needs to be retrained not FSD.
LOL, I said the same thing you did, just used more words. I hadn't read your comment before I wrote mine.
Wouldn’t allowing the car to use your personal profile, potentially conflict with the overall objective of maximum safety. After all one of the advantages of FSD is that an overcomes the bad behavior of many drivers.
@@johnlemay7408 yes. I really want it to drive according to the safety score. Gentle braking, turns, etc. v12 is much better.
My test case was a hairpin turn to my daughters house in LA going west on the 405 then switching to an eastbounnd freeway and within 1 mile having to cross 5 lanes to the offramp. It was flawless!!! Great job Tesla team.
While I agree with your points when we are actively supervising the vehicle, I don't think any of this matters as a passenger of a robotaxi. The first few dozen rides we may be nervous with some of the cars actions you mention, but after that, the few seconds later that a car service arrives at your destination will not matter. We'll all be in the back seat looking at our phones. Comfort and gradual acceleration/deceleration will be the only important aspect of the ride, similar to our experience riding in a limousine. Right now my biggest issue is the lack of gradual deceleration before reaching speed bumps, not sure if it doesn't see them in time or the stimulus/response reaction is lagging.
You missed a big one. It needs to be able to read ancillary signs. Ex, School zone 25 when lights flashing. Or if there’s somebody out directing traffic, it needs to take direction from hand signals and ignore the lights.
It does now
Does which? 12.3.3 does not slow down for school zones. Tested that first thing. Haven’t had the opportunity to test hand signals though. Is that updated?
@@allieflounder5764 Does not work for any school zones I have tried it in so far in Arizona.
@@iowa_don I was referring specifically to hand signals.. but I have seen it slow in school zones in Georgia anyway. But it was going too fast and I had to disengage.
For school zones it needs to be at the lower limit when it reaches the sign. Not slow after it passes the sign. Also it varies from state to state how the speed limit changes after you pass the crosswalk. In Arizona, you can go back to the regular limit after the crosswalk. In non-crosswalk school zones, there is often a sign where the school zone ends but no extra speed limit posted.
I do a lot of country driving, where the implied speed limit is 55. When I reach a small village, the speed limit will change to 25 or 35, and is frequently staked out by CHP or a sherriff's officer. FSD is very bad at slowing to the speed limit, which will force me to disengage. Then when I am leaving the village, there will be a sign saying "End 25 Speed Limit", in other words resume 55 speed limit. FSD will continue showing the speed limit as 25, until it sees an explicit 55 speed limit sign. Another reason to disengage, since it is very annoying to the driver behind me. Those are my to 2 disengagements.
I find almost the opposite here. It slows down to the speed limit in places where everyone drives over the speed limit including the police.
It's NEVER going to drive the way we all want when we have a steering wheel and pedals in front of us.
I am using FSD 12.3.3, I drive on FSD almost everywhere, significant improvement needed in the school zone, it Doesn’t recognize blinking yellow flash light and slow down . This is important . Minimal lane change should be the default setting.
School zone recognition should be their first priority. I also think the minimal lane change setting should be the default.
This is my #1 priority!! School zones are not recognized.
It recognizes the college where I live... even when there are no students walking around it is way to cautious.
FSD 12.3.3 will not slow down for any yellow speed sign. I agree, the minimal lane change should be the default setting. I have to turn if on every time I engage FSD.
100% agree with this! The school zone thing is a show stopper and the minimal lane change, if not default, should at least have option to persist instead of being just per drive.
Driving in the left lane. In Germany, you could be doing 120 on the autobahn in the left lane, and if you aren't actively passing someone, you can get a ticket for obstructing the passing lane. When driving cross country among trucks, they stay right unless passing. Like many things in America, etiquette has gone out the window, It's like no one went to kindergarten and learned common decency. I'm happy to hear FSD has some programmed in.
You probably know this, but you can signal right and it will change lanes. Fully press the stank, not partial.
Lol that's such a waste of a lane. *Obviously* the American way of allowing anyone to pass from any lane and fully compacting all lanes is far more efficient... Forcing crazy drivers from going death-trap speeds comes as a free bonus... You can't go that fast if cars going 80mph use the left lane.... Oh, and trucks aren't allowed on left lane either...
Yes, clearly special rules are needed for German Autobahn where there is no speed limit, and also in general in Germany where the drivers of fast cars (especially the fast expensive ones like BMW, Mercedes, who feel very entitled to not get slowed down by anyone not as rich!) not only legally have the right to the left lane but can drive very aggressively, coming up behind you fast and blinking their lights till you
pull over. It's regarded as a sin to slow them down! I had a great used BMW which was quite fast, but found
it stressful to drive on the Autobahn, as I had to constantly check the rear-view mirror.
Here are some of my top peeves with 12.3.3:
1. FSD accelerates needlessly fast (wasting energy). FSD should apply the driver’s setting in Controls > Pedals & Steering > Acceleration, so that when Acceleration is set to Chill, FSD accelerates more gradually. This also affects my insurance discount, as I use an insurer-provided accelerometer connected to my cell phone, that monitors driving behavior.
2. FSD is too timid in uncontrolled intersections, or poorly gauges the speed of approaching cars at those intersections.
3. Autospeed seems to go either much too fast (risking speeding violations) or much too slow (annoying other drivers).
4. FSD (Tesla Vision) does not detect roadway obstacles that have a diffuse profile, e.g. downed tree branches, which I’ve experienced with FSD. I don’t know for sure, but I’m concerned that the same would be true for things laying flat on the roadway that have a small profile, e.g., pieces of lumber. Such roadways obstacles are serious safety concerns.
It’s interesting to see your comment about the acceleration. When it accelerates slowly, I get honked at. I certainly understand. But there are many things that I see, which are really a driver preference. It would be good to make those customizable, but the number of those would be very large. We’ll see what they decide to do.
@@chrvids5846 I drive in Chill mode 99% of the time, which is why my lifetime efficiency is 237 Wh/mi.--including Midwest winters. I never get honked at using Chill mode, and I doubt that is just a Midwest-nice thing.
@danielschmoldt7204
So small towns and empty country roads huh. Zero high anxiety raging drivers in that environment.
EV’s don’t waste much energy by accelerating, that is an ICE problem.
Speed wastes energy due to aerodynamic drag, that is relevant to EV’s
Stop & go wastes very little energy due to regen.
Yeah I agree the acceleration is not smooth. It will tend to go slowly make a sharp turn then accelerate hard.
If there is double lane on the road I am turning(turning left) and a stoplight and I need go right next I will make
a wider turn onto the far lane and I can do this smoothly . Under FSD it will tend to turn slowly and sharply accelerate hard
and then change lanes. Goes slow in places that I don't see why and accelerates hard where not necessary and is somewhat
alarming.
Don't worry, they are all an "easy fix". A long weekend should do it. After all it's only been 10 years.🤣
#3... Linking large language model so that supervisor can 'talk' to FSD about the situation creates a problematic back-seat-driver situation. All of us know how difficult and less safe this becomes when a passenger is second guessing the driver. How does FSD weight 'suggestions' of the supervisor? Suggest we let FSD become better than any human driver and shut it.
You don't have a choice.
The system could record the disengagements for each drive then play them back at the end of the drive. I’d love to tell the system when and why it was following a bit to close (new 12.3 behavior) or when it should be less hesitant. After hearing the same correction three times the system should add it to your local profile and upload it so others can benefit.
Great video. My #1 is potholes. Car runs right through them. We have so many in the northeast I often can’t complete a drive without a disengagement to maneuver around them.
If this isn't solved, FSD will never work in Brasil!!!!
my number 1 reason is speeding coming into city limits from 55mph, it sees the speed limit sign but continues to do 9-10mph over
Or on a 55mph 2 lane road, it passes a sign saying "35mph ahead", and instead of starting to slow down, it waits until the actual 35mph sign and then has to uncomfortably / aggressively slow and by definition is speeding for at least a short section which can get you a ticket.
During a 1,000 miles Old Highway 66 Road trip this week on 12.3.3, I observed over and over again that it's quick to accelerate to a higher speed limit, but very slow to decelerate to a lower speed limit. It should be the other way around.
@@brucec954 I've noticed similar but I also wonder if signs are incorrect by either placement and or posted speed? Only bc I'm not sure how that's determined anyway.
Shocked to see curbs not on this list. Feel like I frequently have to take over to prevent mine from scraping/going over curbs
That's a very surprising thing for version 12 to do!
Isn't it supposed to have learned directly from good drivers?
I'm pretty sure good drivers almost never drive over curbs!
That have to be someting which will fix itself with more training.
I have taken over too. However I think I probably get that close to curbs too. The problem is that it’s different if you’re monitoring the car. Close calls make people want to take over because they can’t predict how it’s going to behave, unlike if you’re driving. This is a problem with using human data.
@juliahello6673 I totally agree however there have definitely been multiple circumstances where I 100% would have hit curbs in the middle of intersections and coming out of businesses. I do agree however that there are some instances where it is just close and I would prefer not to risk curb rashing my rims
@@larsnystrom6698 If FSD scrapes or goes over a curb it should be aware it did that to do a self-feedback. If it scraped a curb and did not record the event itself that is a sub-human level of performance and not driving at a level "better than a human".
I've never had that problem
The approach to braking appears as though Full Self-Driving (FSD) technology doesn't utilize regenerative braking in any capacity. Employing regenerative braking in a manner similar to human drivers could significantly enhance the comfort of the driving experience.
_Full Self-Driving (FSD) technology doesn't utilize regenerative braking in any capacity_
How did you reach this conclusion? That hasn't been my observation at all.
@@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa Only Tesla engineers can confirm the specifics of speed management game strategies and training FSD to encourage regen for braking. However, I've noticed frequent instances of abrupt braking. I mainly rely on regenerative braking to adjust my speed, and I can sense a distinct difference in how FSD handles this. Implementing this approach in Full Self-Driving could significantly enhance the comfort of the ride.
Agree. Very rarely do I use the brake to stop at a sign or a red light. FSD IMHO waits too long to decide to stop, then applies brakes, wasting energy. They need better decel strategy and take into account if a car is behind you or not. No need to hurry up and wait.
Your communication example: When the car is holding for traffic, there is a blue bar pointing out the traffic lane of concern, when it decides to go there is the trajectory noodle. What other communication do you need?
Less lane changes makes me happy. I just feel safer and creates less obstructions to other drivers.
Great topic and spot on top 10. As a trial user, when reporting an intervention on Day 1, I simply said “local knowledge”. By day 2, I learned how to effectively use the stalk to auto change lanes. Obviously, still an “intervention”, but an interesting thing happened over the last few days…I stopped caring as much. Now, my definition of a successful drive has solely become safety related. Here’s another interesting behavioral change…I noticed during the few times I am driving manually, I now find myself trying to mimic FSD/Ego driving style and feel. We live a very busy life and are almost always in a hurry to get to the next activity. FSD has allowed me the space to become a more patient and overall safer driver.
Oh and I also find myself talking to the car a lot 😂. Have any of these things happened to anyone else?
For the record, I find Navigation to be the biggest annoyance. Tesla really needs a solution for this and to add grok integration so I can direct FSDEgo. Today.
The Tesla "John drives to work conversation" for my short 3 mile journey to my local station would be "Tesla just filled its pants". There's at least 3 situations that FSD would crap it's pants at, and that's not including the 6 roundabouts I have to cross 😂
#2 This would be my #1. But I think there’s something going on here that you missed. On three occasions driving with FSD 12.3.3 recently I have had the car get stuck or make an inappropriate lane selection when the Google based navigation was indication the correct turn or lane selection. So the in-car
navigation was aware of the correct path but it seems like FSD either totally ignored it or gave it much too small a weight as FSD performed it’s erroneous path planning. So there’s an internal communication issue at the root of 100% of my disengagement issues lately and improving the navigation data and methods won’t help that because Google’s navigation is already sufficient in most cases.
All this data exposes the many problems of road design and the fallibility of road designers. All the burden has been on drivers but there should be a discussion on this aspect which I haven't seen yet.
yes, but if there is zero change we are going to revamp all the roads for these cars. they can either learn to do it like humans do or they can't. I think it's pretty clear they will, but they also will never drive like each of us want them to.
@@johnfurr6060... like nobody else on the road drives like we want them to...
I just experienced an unnecessary U turn. My destination was accessible without needing a U turn, it just needed to take a left turn and enter the parking lot on the left in 500 ft. Instead it wanted to do a U turn and go into a different parking lot that was adjacent to my destination parking lot. Not sure how they fix that without limiting U turns to only when no other route is available.
Regarding lane changes, what would be cool is a setting that says be in the lane you will exit from no later than X miles from exit. I think everyone has their own comfort level when to be in the exit lane. Some will wait to last second while others want to be in the lane 2 miles ahead. Right now it’s unclear when it will be in the exit lane.
Agreed. I needed to be in the right lane as I was merging to another freeway in 1 mile. It took me over to the far left lane and then back over last second to the lane I needed to be in.
Good list, particularly the communication item. My two (minor) complaints aren't on your list. One is that the car stops too far from the stop line in many cases. The second one is that auto speed is too inconsistent to use: sometimes it goes way under the speed limit for no reason and other times it is a speed demon going 15+ MPH over. These should be easy to fix.
With all due respect, it seems like when the fsd is fully functional, you will not be paying attention so your annoyances will all go away.
Further, I brlieve, the roads, laws and community will change from what you know, and your annoyances may go away.
It cannot be just the car that will have to adapt. Maybe the new stop signs will have radio signals.
I always get a huge laugh out of the stop and go, as l try to get through a flashing red light.
You know Self Driving it's pretty good when you're down to a Top 10 Field Quality List, and a number of those are Comfort Issues.
My #1 reason for disengagement is, by far, backseat driving. Its very hard for me not to overrule the FSD. Reflexes take over
And if you didn't the humans around you would probably be pissed that it took you 15 seconds to make a corner.
So, not FSD. You want BSD…
The navigation problem: I've been on this like a one string guitar, the golden thread principle. Where the route planner not only shows the roads to be taken but also works out the lanes as it knows how far it is to the next turn off. It should however take the traffic situation in account to preempt early lane changes..
Definitely agree with all 10. On #1, I would be happy if FSD takes the route I always take between cities, not the calculated one. Also: I want cruise control back. Sometimes I just like to steer myself.
Yeah there should be a "record mode" where you can drive to say work and back and it would use that as a "predefined" route. Elon so fixated on Robotaxi that ignores making FSD more useful as a driver assistance feature (and getting a higher take rate) in the meantime.
Why not ask that SFSD would not only pull into your garage, but also have Optimus plug it in to charge.
I don't think we should need a $50k bot to plug a car. The charging port should be on top of vehicle, and some simple motor should drop the charger cable directly on it with some strong magnet to make it move around a few cm in exact place...
There are probably even better ways (but not slow, cancer-enhancing wireless charging).
"What is my purpose?"
"You plug in cars"
"Oh my God."
🤣
There will be a transition to wireless charging, obviating the need for plugging in.
The most unique problem I've seen with V12.3.3, and haven't seen anyone reporting about, is when FSD reads the route sign as a speed limit sign. I've seen this on at least 4 different roads. It was really confusing until I figured out what it was doing (or appears to be doing). The biggest surprises are in 55 mph speed limit areas and the route number is low, like Rt 15. I've also seen where it appears to round the number e.g. Rt 18 is rounded to 20mpg and Rt 3 was rounded to 5 mpg. I haven't seen it slam on the breaks during these events but it definitely is slowing down. I've been able to report most of the time. I've noticed the numeral size on the signs are similar Observed in OH and MD.
My number one reason for interventions is avoiding curbing my rear passenger side wheel on right turns when using FSD on city StreetS. This happened to us yesterday and it was utterly infuriating!!!
100% agree. This was an excellent video and I"m glad you put it up. Was getting a little tired of all the it's perfect videos. It's really good and it's getting better, but it has a way to go. My wife simply won't use it until it drives similar to her in her local area.
It also needs to learn to read common road instruction signs, such as a stop sign which has the modification, "Except right turn," or when overhead signs direct vehicles ahead of time to use one lane for left turn, one for right turn, and one for straight or one lane for straight ahead AND right turn. Also, I have had to disengage 12.3.2 twice as it was about to run into different islands, one between the two different direction lanes in a suburban road at a left turn, and one in a parking lot at low speed after doing a flawless FSD drive prior to that.
Lane selection, that empty lane is not necessarily continuing straight, but maybe be a or left left turn lane. And at that point it may not see the any signs or placards on the road to tell you that it is a turn lane. Neural nuts or stressing, visual recognition, and not necessarily always relying upon documented lanes. That’s probably the reason why this happens. People are probably in the largest lanes because they already know there’s a right hand turn lane over there.
One of our daughters has a Tesla model 3 that she's had for almost 4 years. Over the weekend her husband downloaded and installed the free 30 day trial of FSD. Sunday he brought the car over to our house to take me for a FSD demonstration drive. It consistently did something that I really didn't like. It would accelerate much too aggressively from a stop sign or when a light changed from red to green. The car should drive like a limo driver when FSD is engaged. I would not use FDS at all as long as it does this aggressive acceleration from a stop.
Great points. Couple of thoughts. I just use my turn signal to get into the lane with fewer cars. I also use my turn signal for your point 2 which is not getting into the left lane soon enough prior to an upcoming left turn rather than disengaging and squeezing in.
For #6. V12.3 pulls into my driveway when navigating home. That’s great, but I back in so I have to disengage to back in.
We all do that, so FSD will learn to do it too.
I guess humans still has better long-term planning ability!
We do it because we plan for driving out forward the next day. FSD is probably not yet planning for that.
But really, when they feed it videos, they should feed it both backing in and driving out. That it's a day between should be ignored!
FSD likes backing into parking lots, so it's surprising it doesn't see a private driveway as a long parking lot.
Your lucky Mine doesnt go in garage. It stops in front of the house. My home has a longer driveway than avg so not sure if that's why.
Oh no, yet another back in parker.😂
It drives me crazy to be driving down the highway all by myself and for no reason at all* blinker comes on and it moves to the passing lane. Even worse, there may be someone in the passing lane and only me in the right lane and it decides to move into the passing lane, causing other car to slow down or pass me on the right. (*I'm sure there is a "reason")
I disengage and report it every time.
Is this on V12.3.3?
@@royh6526 highway stack is still v11. AI neural net is city driving.
@@APatchworkCanvas Not the way I understand it. V11 was combined highway and city (single stack). V12 all neural net (again single stack).
@@royh6526 yeah, they’re still using v11 for highway driving
I’ve asked the same question on every channel including this one. What does James Duma have to say about how each of the disengagement gets fixed in a neural system? You need lots of training data, but I like to know what his opinion is about the entire process and how successful it is.
Very intuitive, totally agree on the LLM Memory input with profile type of driver and local navigation. Good one John.
Yesterday I drove from the SF Bay Area to SoCal using FSD for the first time. The two biggest issues were 1) merging onto the I-5 freeway... I had to intervene when my merge lane was ending but the adjacent freeway lane was still blocked by a long, slow moving big rig truck, and my Model Y started hesitating about what to do, and finally it started accelerating with nowhere to go, which freaked me out; 2) vehicles ahead with their turn signals blinking....literally every time a vehicle in front of me had its turn signal on in flowing traffic, whether in my lane or another lane or even on the shoulder, FSD would start slowing down and hesitating, which was super annoying. In one case, it was a vehicle in the adjacent lane whose driver didn't realize they had forgotten to turn off their turn signal, where a human driver would just drive past such a vehicle, but FSD started slowing down and hesitating, not sure what to do.
I experienced red traffic light runs. It’s a specific scenario where at night with other streets orange lights I believe fsd thinks the orange traffic light is not a traffic light till it turns red and then it’s too late and run the traffic light. I noticed also that some red light were represented as orange light on the graphic visualization.
Everything you mentioned seems rather straightforward for the FSD team. 8/8 is looking to be very exciting.
Missed one. Reading signs. Many times it misses school zones for time of day. In my city school zone is in effect between 7am and 5:30pm on weekdays. Any other time is normal speeds. Also downtown in my city. No left or right turns between 7am to 9am and/or 3:30pm to 5:30pm (rush hour). Good list other than this miss. Cheers from Canada!
The difficult one for me is that it sticks to the center of the road, which is normally just fine. But when i drive on a road with a big camber due to a street with flooding problems i would rather be closer to the left side of the road.
Good idea about having a conversation with the FSD software like "Drive 9 Miles Over The posted speed limit". Opening a debug window to see what the car is thinking is a great idea as well.
My top disengagement is on rural roads when it suddenly decides to jerk the steering wheel to the left as if it has spotted an object in the lane it is in. I think this is because the training data it is receiving is mostly from city drivers and large metro area drivers. Most of the training data has come from early joiners to the FSD-beta program and I believe they have been primarily city drivers. There are exceptions such as Dirty Teslabut I've not seen beta testers who live and drive in small towns or in large rural areas near very small towns, sometimes with a single intersection. These are the drivers who might buy an EV but not if it can't handle their environment. Given the demographic shift from big cities to rural areas that we are seeing today, Tesla will need to focus more of the FSD testing in these areas. I can't imagine a robotaxi coming to my house over back roads, some of them dirt without getting lost or just giving up.
My biggest issue is slowing down for speed bumps. My FSD experience drove over the speed bump at 21 mph even when there was a sign that said slow down to 10 mph. I intentionally waited to see what the car would do. I am glad it did not do any damage. On a different occasion, the car slowed for the same speed bump. FSD did fail at a U-turn due to getting on the far 2nd lane which prohibited the U-turn, I disengaged and made a left turn. The second time I tried, it got in the correct inside lane and made the U-turn. This issue had to do with lane selection and recognizing what maneuvers are allowed based on the lane that you are in. Several other FSD drives were very impressive. I saw a different video where someone put white tape in his garage and the car recognized the tape lines as a parking spot. I am going to try that out.
You have really nailed it! Same issues I am having with it.
One of your best, most insightful videos. Thanks for this.
Excellent video - totally agree with the communication idea.
Excellent explanation of top 10 FSD reasons for disengagements. I agree 💯
Regarding item 1 (and, probably others), I would imagine that the frustration you have is due to the fact that you are observing FSD behaviour in a real world context. I would suggest that the frustration would evaporate if you removed the ‘real world’ aspect. To do this, ask your missus to drive from A to B and then get FSD to do the same. In both cases, take up the passenger role, but remove yourself from the ‘real world ‘ by putting on a blindfold, and perhaps listen to music. Now, you will be experiencing what I would envisage a Robotaxi ride to be like.
Great video - but I can add one more disengagement case: When the weather gets poor (rainy days, snow, etc.) then you get that "full self driving may be degraded" message - and that is fine to see (and HEAR) it one time - and it's also fine to leave the message up ... but the message gets repeated over and over and over and over again - sometimes every 5 to 10 seconds (!!!!!!) ... at that point, I just shutdown FSD for the rest of the drive because it just drives you nuts HEARING that beep sound so damn often ... I can't understand why the message and the irritating beep (which you cannot turn off or turn down to silent mode) has to be shouted out at you so often - and that is especially true if you're just trying to enjoy some music or listen to a talk show or whatever ... just my 2 cents ...
Remember the old days where we were happy when FSD could stay in its lane consistently?
Press on the "gas" is communicating "you can go now". 😂
It's going to be a LOOONG time before our cars are truly (100%) "fully self driving".
Dips and pot holes. We have speed dips in my area instead of speed bumps. They have a sign with an arrow pointing to the dip. You have to go through the speed dips much slower than a speed bump or the Tesla will scrape the front end of the car. I have reported this for all the FSD beta versions but nothing has changed. Sometimes if the lighting is right it will see them at the last minute and slam on the brakes. The speed limit is 25. MPH but you need to be going about 5 MPH to not scrape the front end and throw you out of your seat.
This was a very useful talk. Thanks
I live in Ohio, where Tesla's insurance is available. Your premium is based off your rating. Plenty of phantom forward collision warnings! My biggest problem with FSD, is that the way it drives, the car would get dinged for forward collision warnings, hard braking, aggressive turns and unsafe following, if a human were driving. That makes no sense to me!
Thanks for telling the truth about FSD. As share holders in Tesla, we need to hear honest reviews, not FUD.
Great points. This is coming from the perspective of someone in the front seat monitoring the car. I think if you look at it from the perspective of a person half paying attention in the back seat and what is needed for a robotaxi you will come up with different priorities. So it begs the question what is Tesla's priority, robotaxi or better FSD supervised?
My V12.3.3 will not stop for a closed gate in my gated community. It will slow down, but will not come to a stop when the arm is down. V11 would not even slow down. This is something that needs to be fixed.
Sounds like a "train" mode would be great. For example, train it pulling into your garage...after 10 examples it would pull into the garage automatically. You could also have your top 10 trips you take all the time programmed into the car...just tell it "trip 7", or whatever trip 1-10.
I agree with your list! While FSD has improved greatly on city streets, it still has major issues on the highway like: moving into the passing lane 0.8 miles before it needs to exit to the right, and my wife's favorite 😂 jerking over into the exit lane.
A problem I run into is the car doesn’t handle speed limits properly unless it sees a valid speed limit sign. This requires me to hold the accelerator on unmarked roads which makes FSD almost unusable on many back roads. We have a lot of “End 35 MPH” signs which are ignored so the car stays at the previous speed. Map speed limit data would be nice or allow the operator to adjust the max speed with the scroll wheel.
3. The noodle extends when it's going to go for it. A HUGE issue I've ran into a couple times, on 12.3.3, it starts to go on unprotected left, then stops when a car appears to the right (even though it has time to complete the move) and now I'm in the intersection with a car coming at me to my left. It would seem it still can't determine, effectively, cross traffic speed and its ability to.... reasonably merge.
Exactly that happens to me to. What I've done is just press on the gas to move it fast and FSD stays engaged. I figured this is the supervised part of FSD. But only Tesla would really know.
Great points, however, I would like to add 3 more things: a) car should stop at the stop line and not 5 ft before; this does not make sense b) car sometimes stays in a dead angle; so other cars cannot see my car; either go further up or keep more distance c) reduce speed for speed bumps; it's a little too fast for speed bumps
My biggest issue
1. The speed
2. Picking the wrong lanes
3. Not getting in the lane needed to exit the freeway soon enough.
4. Also had the intersection problem.
5. Just some navigation issues.
Had no other issues really
Once you are not the driver, just a passenger, you won't care much how FSD drives, as long as it's safe and comfortable. Maybe if local knowledge saves you significant amount of time, but standard navigation should already take care of that.
Agree with your points. Also it’s indecisive which turn lane to choose at intersection if several lanes are available, angering people behind me. It wobbles between two often.
It needs to be able to read traffic signs, like no left turn, etc
Not ideal lane changes on highway: often waits to last 500 feet to change into exit lanes, where it has to brake harshly or cause others to brake.
Has to be able to reroute navigation. Fsd navigation told it to make a left turn into a cement median divider today and it couldn’t move.
Agree w you on uturn issue. Thx!
Will it be able to change lanes based on specific vehicles in a give lane? ie: Concrete trucks leaving the manufacturing plant are loaded and much slower at acceleration than a returning truck that has been emptied. I always shift lanes to bypass the loaded trucks. (usually puts me ahead of a slew of cars as well)
spot on with most of this… 90% of issues appear to be bad navigation - I agree that bringing that in house with new neural nets would be another leap forward. Also some kind of local memory or maybe multi car recency hd mapping to augment the system
Dr. Know-it-all Knows it all, This made me laugh so much! Thanks for sharing!
I wonder if there could be an intervention memory mode in FSD when navigating to a destination that could adjust the way FSD drives on the next trip to the same location -> when to get into turning lanes, where to stop at intersections, etc. for local, repetitive trips.
100% agree with the list, add pot holes to the list!
Stop signs are annoying because it always stops like 5 to 10 before the stop sign and then creeps to the stop sign and stops again.
Long time watching and enjoying your presentations! When Tesla automobiles become fully autonomous it will change all of our experiences with respect to time, much like the distraction of mirrors in and around elevators. When we are relieved from driving we will be free to do whatever we like inside the vehicle. Speeding to a destination will become less important for most of us. Certainly, the safest drive will not have us changing lanes constantly in order to gain the system locally or when traveling.
i would love to be able to say something like:
"Navigate to , take 35th ave to Broadway." Or "Navigate to , no highways."
Sounds like you want Optimus to be your butler, and driver.
I've done tests. Google Nav doesn't have issues Tesla does. Tried on phone with Google maps, Waze, etc at same time and same route and the Tesla NAV is only one that does these strange things. While rare in general, when it is on a frequently used route, it is very annoying.
This is very useful advice for Tesla!
Really excellent video. Thanks.
While you were describing your #3 peeve, I was watching the car's screen. It clearly showed a creep limit with no blue path indicator at first, clearly indicating "I may need to creep up a bit." As the car started moving again, the blue "here's where I'm going" line appeared and starting elongating, a pretty clear indication of the car's intentions.
Communication is a two-way street, takes a sender and a receiver. I think the car was sending, but you weren't paying attention to it. I know you can't stare at the screen and be a safe driver, but as you gain experience you should learn what clues to look for during a quick glance.
Your number one reason is the same reason why I sometimes why I don’t use it. There are times when I don’t want it to drive on the freeway cuz locally i feel like taking side streets is better. Is there a way to tell it to not take the freeways? Also, I like your list but I think there are two types of usage of FSD. One as a RoboTaxi where the passenger shouldn’t really care about how it gets to its destination just as long they get there and get there safely. The other is as a driver assistance system where how it drives matters to the driver. Sometimes like I said I don’t want it to go on the freeways or I want it to take “my route” instead. The latter is a hard problem to fix as you mentioned. Great video by the way!!!
Amen to the localized, personalized, ever-evolving model. I think that the local copy could spend the time it's in the garage on shore power to analyze video clips of when you [the driver] were in charge to further personalize, and then 'learn' that behavior by comparing against other pre-existing [generalized] driving profiles. I would love it if the car drove more like me, and I'm confident that others would too. For me, that would include long slow decelerations to a stop sign or light, rather than the short stope that often requires friction-braking.
I agree with #3. I believe the car should verbally communicate especially when the car is waiting. I don't like taking my eyes off the road to look down at the dashboard.
More Pick your route options.
And also preferred memorized routes.
Maybe a learn and store options for routes.
Very good summary of the feedback. Ideally the last one, or the number one is every Tesla driver who would love to see FSD achieved. But in reality, some people are very impatient and aggressive drivers, for example, and if Tesla FSD drive the way they like, I bet there will be lots of people not liking it. So if you want to drive the way want, prepare to take over any time and that should be the easiest solution.
Two items you may not have run into:
When traveling on the highway, sees "minimum limit" signs and assumes they're max limit signs. When looking at the camera views, I can't read the "fine print" either. Maybe V4 cameras will make it better. IN the V4 cameras, you can read the signs. VFD V12 is reasonably good at understanding that the limit can't possibly be 40, but it does still slow down on occasion. Highway driving is still mostly V11-like, of course.
When traveling with HOV and Toll lanes enabled, it preferentially takes the toll lanes even if the normal lanes are free. It went so far as to want to cross 4 lanes of traffic to get to the HOV lane, even though I was already in the right-most non-HOV lane, where traffic was moving fine. It should only take the pay lanes if traffic is moving slowly, of course. This was in Atlanta, in the city on 75/85 going north just before the 75 / 85 split, for those familiar with downtown Atlanta.
IMO, a LLM interface is the most important feature. Maybe not at the car level, but certainly at the training level. The training staff should be able to explain to the system why there was an issue, along with the system explaining why it was doing what it was doing. That way, the system could identify the correct algorithm to adjust. Let's get away from having feed the system 100,000 examples.
Easily said, not easily done. We get spoiled with things like Chat GTP and Grok, but these run on $B supercomputers, not Tesla's in-car computer.
Two additional items of concern:
1) When approaching freeway interchanges that you will be transitioning through, FSD should slow down and/or enlarge the following distance allowing for other vehicles to merge more smoothly.. Seems like FSD tends to create stressful situations in these transition zones. This is exacerbated with FSD for two reasons; a) because drivers are looking at each other using non-verbal communication to validate they see each other not knowing that the individual behind the steering wheel is actually not in control of the vehicle. b) FSD tends to cut off big rigs as well as slow down once it does a lane change.
2) When in heavy stop-and-go traffic. It would be better to have FSD creep along even at a very slow speed rather than come to a complete stop because vehicles behind a stopped vehicle will attempt to change lanes ASAP which propagates a cascade of events behind it.
#3 Communication could be achieved with a small red/green icon on the screen or an audible chime instead of having the car constantly talking to you. And #1 Localization could take care of things like #6, going into your driveway. In my case, #6 and #5 are combined. I live at the end of a long shared driveway and FSD always stops 100 yards from my house. In addition, I make a U-turn and back in to position the car next to the charger. It will be a red-letter day when FSD can do all that.
I agree, hopefully they can add a verbose mode for FSD for communication which has a couple of levels and off. I also wish there was some way to adjust how fast FSD accelerates when there is no reason to accelerate quickly.
Your top 3 were not expected to me. My top 3:
1. Hesitant to go when it should
2. Sometimes goes too fast (with autospeed) in a neighborhood zone of 20 or 25 mph
3. Indecision on selecting from multiple turn lane choices, and changes lane too late for my comfort.
In one week of using the free 12.3.3 I've only had 2 interventions that I would call major (might have caused an accident). Once it was pulling out and a truck decided to do a u-turn in the intersection but the car was going anyway. We might have collided if I had not intervened (the truck had the right of way). And another time, it kept creeping up to make an unprotected left turn in a situation where on coming traffic was impossible to see because of vehicles in the opposite turn lane. I sure as hell wouldn't have even tried it, but the car was pretty intent on going... so I intervened.
Overall, I think FSD 12.3.3 is pretty good, but I won't pay $200/mo for it. I might get it for a month if I'm going on a long trip and will spend time in an unfamiliar city. So if Tesla keeps the price as is, they might get $200-400/yr from me. If they drop the price to $100/mo, I might subscribe full time and they'd get $1200/yr from me... hmmm. But it will have to improve a little more.
I am glad none of these are life endangering! I bet with time all these will be solved and more!
Elon needs to add a Neuralink interface port on your Tesla for you! 😎
Maybe a future version could allow you to select your preferred parking location in my garage. I also prefer to park at work on the spots on the right side of the building. I guess we can let them solve the basics before we ask Tesla to solve for our particular nuances. Thanks Dr know it all. You really captured the major issues i am seeing. Love your videos.
My FSD is similar to yours, Tesla really needs to design a local learning system to get beyond the generalist approach for repetitive commutes we know really well. I like your idea of individually customized neural nets for each driver. Version 12 has a new navigation error I’ve never seen before, it won’t take my lane change request at the spot on my commute without disengaging. I hope Elon is right about introducing three improvements every two weeks.