Our lists say "0-1 Clan Skryre Warlock Engineer, Clan Eshin Master Assassin or Clan Pestilens Plague Priest per 1,000 points", not that you can take as many as you want
For me, the most disappointing part is losing the unique misfire charts from weapons teams. It was fun for them to blow up with a template, or run off randomly and place a template. The 'team dies or takes a wound or doesnt fire' is not as interesting and they could have just copy/pasted from an old book. Skaven feel like a better, more reliable army with these rules, but you don't play Skaven for that kind of army. edit: and losing shooting into combat
its weird how the skaven are relegated to a legacy faction given how two of their largest cities are in the old world with one of them being their capital
It's for the lore, the Skaven very recently made a huge push to try and take Altdorf, failed due to infighting, (shocking, I know) and are in retreat plotting and scheming again. This time of relative quiet is why we all know there are no rat men under Altdorf
As far as I understand it, while the Skaven were certainly present, they weren't really active on the surface yet. In the timeline of the old WHFB game, they were still an urban legend in the Empire that was denied by the authorities. That would be impossible to pull off if they had been active on the surface in The Old World era, which is set centuries before. This is also why certain characters are not present and why other factions are legacy as well. I know it doesn't make complete sense in a lot of cases, and it seems like a convenient excuse to keep those armies in Age of Sigmar. But that's the rationale. This is basically The Horus Heresy for Fantasy Battle. They're focusing on the factions that they consider essential to the setting. And I have to agree, launching a game like this that is not meant to be one of the big two would be impossible if they were going to do all 16 factions. Now if this is a success, there's no reason why they can't advance the timeline or showcase other eras so that the legacy armies get miniature releases and Arcane Journals of their own.
The lore timeline is really all about suiting GW Corporate Strategy: Skaven are well-presented in AoS so are relegated despite being very popular with OW players. IE it's about selling extra models/minis and I think other factions with old-cast minis probably achieve that. The lore although applicable eg Skaven being underground is just fluff around the main sales strategy. Probably Skaven will get a bit revisit if OW does well in a few years time.
Well I have a feeling if the skaven being part of the next AoS boxset rumours are right, then judging from the rumours pictures I'd say clan pestilence are getting some love.
@@influencehistory8879 that is fair. From what I remember, all of Eshin except the new Deathmaster model is still in metal, oh, and the Verminlord is also plastic. Though, given that that makes 50% of their models are outdated metal, but that making only 2 kits, I still do believe that Skryre would also need an update. They have a mold for a plastic Warpfire Thrower, but have not used it. Though, yes, Skaven just need a revamp across the board. All the newer plastic models are still fine, even the Clanrats and Stormvermin. But there is no reason we should still have metal models AT ALL anymore.
The legacy armies will be valid as soon as GW knows whether or not there will be an Old World second edition. After that, they will update the game to make them non-functioning and to phase them out, like they did with Age of Sigmar.
I agree. Having half your army numbers only cost a few hundred points and either be pin cushions, a false flank, or just the awesome visual were iconic.
this. Ive been comparing the point to point costs of our last whfb book and the old world release, as well as the other factions in the old world. Every faction in the old world has seen a general points reduction to characters and units as well as their equipment. With the exception of skaven. Our character shave gotten cheaper, but all of our units have either stayed the same or actually gotten more expensive per model. we are the only army to have seen an on average points increase and a general reduction in options available. Now more than ever are slaves important. Not to mention, the Levies special rule that brettonia get. That is a rule designed for skaven slaves if ive ever seen one.
Also this is why I love Skaven, hilarious that Skaven players are legitimately complaining about not having more ways to deal damage to themselves despite the fact they already deal damage to themselves.
You missed something, or possibly they changed it last minute, warlock engineers, assassins, and plague priests have the 0-1 or per 1k points thing too
I have some problems with rules set - some you mentioned (lack of fw models) but cannon lost boom factor and we dont have anything with multiple wounds at distance. Gray seer also seems to be overpriced compared to imperial wizard. Still - reason to get those jezzails on the table😊
Great commentary, skaven player, definitely gets a sub from me. Looking over the skaven they seem to have a weakness against monster with rare multi wound weapons. How have you found this ? Having to actually kill models rather than just running them down with combat res is a big change for thr skaven. What havs yoy been doing to do the damage required ? Abominations, stormvermin with skavenbrew and spamming cheiftens looks like the best way to me.
I've been tweaking my lists around Skaven do seem a lot weaker this time around but given time someone must happen to get them some love. Gonna be showing off my Skaven army soon as I finisb rebasing them too :)
I'm not sure it's appropriate for the setting. Hell Pit abominations shouldn't be a thing yet and so shouldn't Skryre in its WHFB form. They came towards the end of the civil war afaik.
technically, the Warp Lightning cannon shouldn't be here either. Both were created relatively recently by Ikit Claw. Though techinically, Ikit claw Was alive during the time frame of The Old World.
Ikit is close to 1000 years old, I’m not sure of the time period of when he invented some of these weapons but I’m sure GW will just retcon lore to fit what they want
Not a fan of the legacy lists personally. Seriously Vampire Lords leadership 8?!?! For Skaven well. My favorite of the clans, Moulder, get shafted again. Fewer spells across the board for legacy factions for their specific spells. Especially iconic ones. In regards to Skaven as my old man brain works like hopscotch...lorewise has the Doomwheel even been made at this point? I do recall the Doomwheel not being in one of their army books oddly enough. Not sure why. Not a fan of the very limited magic item lists, had the opportunity to just basically translate every item, bloodline ability and so on over. At least around here I just plan on using a mix of older army books and the new legacy/arcane journals to add a bit more heft and options back into the game.
The Doomwheel has existed since the 4th edition of the game, but as for lore wise, neither it or the Warp lightning cannon should have been invented yet at this point in the timeline.
I hope GW go back and look at skaven and consider just putting in a mount option at least for the warlords and maybe the wolf rats, still least you can ally in some chaos stuff to help out .. demon princes / dragon ogres / or a big old dragon or some mounted units
Ho, I'm new and only really into lore and novels and clocked this by mistake (no offence) but at start you said about the data sheets being PDF now so you don't need to but a book. Surely the data is all online, isn't it?
Double check. You're wrong you can have as many chieftains as you want, but only 1 warlock engineer, master assassin, or plague priest per 1000 points.
Sad stormfiends sounds. Would have been cool if wolfrats come back. Stormfiends too would be nice to be back too. I guess need to tinker in skavenblight yes yes
I can sort of understand Stormfiends being an End Times thing, but same, gutted for Wolf Rats. Was looking for an excuse to kitbash some. Guess I'll just port their old rules across and adapt them for friendly games.
only if you give them both spears and shields. shields are +1pts, spears are +1pts. so hand weapon and shields are 5pts/models, which IIRC, was what it always was for clanrats.
Played my first game with skaven two days ago. They’ve definitely lost some of their character, which is sad, though they definitely feel a little more stable. Still, id rather they maintained the character. Risk and reward was kind of the point in my opinion.
no they are not. which is odd, considering they use warpstone as a base. None of the skaven weapon teams are magical weapons anymore, and they all use warpstone. they should count as magical attacks.
@@dragomirdimov4196 well, at least the Jezzails count as magical, the Hellpit abomination's attacks are magical. They also neutered Poison wind globes. Now they are S2 and always wound on a 6. They used to always wound on 4+
Skaven are arguably the weakest faction in the game from a competitive standpoint atm (or is there another one that you would say is worse?) and since legacy factions won't get any support it's not gonna change :/
lol don’t buy into the “competitive” bs. It’s a specialist game now it’s not mainline, it’s not meant to be competitive. Also the games new people are new comp and no comp. You’re counting out an army that has literally only being played for like 2 months. Chill out there bud.
That's probably what GW were thinking, also I've checked online and slaves themselves are not currently available from GW everything else is at least purchasable (if out of stock) if you do want to start a Skaven army and play it in the Old Word rule set
Well, the Skaven will have more space in AoS. Verminlords before EoT didn't exist, so, these are the Skaven of the 5th, 6th edition? Skaven do not need them, they have a lot of things. Strange the missing slaves
You're wrong from the very start you can only have 0-1 warlock/priest/Assassin per 1000 points it's extremely limiting and invalidates most of your video.
Last one for today :) gotta get back to editing that report!
This one could probably do with a re record.
Our lists say "0-1 Clan Skryre Warlock Engineer, Clan Eshin Master Assassin or Clan Pestilens Plague Priest per 1,000 points", not that you can take as many as you want
For me, the most disappointing part is losing the unique misfire charts from weapons teams. It was fun for them to blow up with a template, or run off randomly and place a template. The 'team dies or takes a wound or doesnt fire' is not as interesting and they could have just copy/pasted from an old book. Skaven feel like a better, more reliable army with these rules, but you don't play Skaven for that kind of army.
edit: and losing shooting into combat
its weird how the skaven are relegated to a legacy faction given how two of their largest cities are in the old world with one of them being their capital
I guess they're recovering from Magnus the Pious pushing their shit in.
It's for the lore, the Skaven very recently made a huge push to try and take Altdorf, failed due to infighting, (shocking, I know) and are in retreat plotting and scheming again. This time of relative quiet is why we all know there are no rat men under Altdorf
As far as I understand it, while the Skaven were certainly present, they weren't really active on the surface yet. In the timeline of the old WHFB game, they were still an urban legend in the Empire that was denied by the authorities. That would be impossible to pull off if they had been active on the surface in The Old World era, which is set centuries before. This is also why certain characters are not present and why other factions are legacy as well.
I know it doesn't make complete sense in a lot of cases, and it seems like a convenient excuse to keep those armies in Age of Sigmar. But that's the rationale.
This is basically The Horus Heresy for Fantasy Battle. They're focusing on the factions that they consider essential to the setting.
And I have to agree, launching a game like this that is not meant to be one of the big two would be impossible if they were going to do all 16 factions.
Now if this is a success, there's no reason why they can't advance the timeline or showcase other eras so that the legacy armies get miniature releases and Arcane Journals of their own.
The lore timeline is really all about suiting GW Corporate Strategy:
Skaven are well-presented in AoS so are relegated despite being very popular with OW players. IE it's about selling extra models/minis and I think other factions with old-cast minis probably achieve that.
The lore although applicable eg Skaven being underground is just fluff around the main sales strategy.
Probably Skaven will get a bit revisit if OW does well in a few years time.
Have to wait until skaven are updated in aos.
All of the best skaven stories involve a misfire.
It's not a disastrous misfire, rather, I prefer to think of it as a catastrophic success!🐀
8:40 oh sure it was a "missfire" always is with skaven
No shooting into combat??
nope. that's gone completely too.
Well I have a feeling if the skaven being part of the next AoS boxset rumours are right, then judging from the rumours pictures I'd say clan pestilence are getting some love.
Skryre is much more in need of some love, though.
@@hellionimmortis9362 however eshins is in need the most. They have the worst infantry of all skaven clans. Skaven just need help everywhere
@@influencehistory8879 that is fair. From what I remember, all of Eshin except the new Deathmaster model is still in metal, oh, and the Verminlord is also plastic. Though, given that that makes 50% of their models are outdated metal, but that making only 2 kits, I still do believe that Skryre would also need an update. They have a mold for a plastic Warpfire Thrower, but have not used it.
Though, yes, Skaven just need a revamp across the board. All the newer plastic models are still fine, even the Clanrats and Stormvermin. But there is no reason we should still have metal models AT ALL anymore.
Patiently been waiting years for that AOS skaven range refresh before I get heavily invested into that game 🔥 hope it's coming this summer
@hellionimmortis9362 oh yeah definitely all the other clans need more love than Pestilence if you ask me, I want to see Skaven sky pirates.
Small-little brain move: use multiple units of clanrats for core
big brain-think move: use one unit of 10000 stormvermin for core
The legacy armies will be valid as soon as GW knows whether or not there will be an Old World second edition. After that, they will update the game to make them non-functioning and to phase them out, like they did with Age of Sigmar.
I’ve been playing WFB for a decade longer than you… damn, not sure how I feel about that 😂 Thanks for posting!
No Slaves, no friendly fire and no Verminlord... can't say I'm excited about this one.
I agree. Having half your army numbers only cost a few hundred points and either be pin cushions, a false flank, or just the awesome visual were iconic.
this. Ive been comparing the point to point costs of our last whfb book and the old world release, as well as the other factions in the old world. Every faction in the old world has seen a general points reduction to characters and units as well as their equipment. With the exception of skaven. Our character shave gotten cheaper, but all of our units have either stayed the same or actually gotten more expensive per model. we are the only army to have seen an on average points increase and a general reduction in options available. Now more than ever are slaves important. Not to mention, the Levies special rule that brettonia get. That is a rule designed for skaven slaves if ive ever seen one.
Poison orb Globadiers can actually friendly fire when they misfire they're also only 10 points per model
Also this is why I love Skaven, hilarious that Skaven players are legitimately complaining about not having more ways to deal damage to themselves despite the fact they already deal damage to themselves.
Screaming Bell and Furnace should just be modelled on a 50x75mm base. Then they fit very neatly into a clanrat unit
You missed something, or possibly they changed it last minute, warlock engineers, assassins, and plague priests have the 0-1 or per 1k points thing too
It's or not and. You can only have one of the three.
@@LSOP-yeah that's what I meant by 0-1 or per 1k. Very annoying.
I have some problems with rules set - some you mentioned (lack of fw models) but cannon lost boom factor and we dont have anything with multiple wounds at distance.
Gray seer also seems to be overpriced compared to imperial wizard.
Still - reason to get those jezzails on the table😊
Great commentary, skaven player, definitely gets a sub from me.
Looking over the skaven they seem to have a weakness against monster with rare multi wound weapons. How have you found this ?
Having to actually kill models rather than just running them down with combat res is a big change for thr skaven. What havs yoy been doing to do the damage required ? Abominations, stormvermin with skavenbrew and spamming cheiftens looks like the best way to me.
I've been tweaking my lists around Skaven do seem a lot weaker this time around but given time someone must happen to get them some love. Gonna be showing off my Skaven army soon as I finisb rebasing them too :)
But I think skaven can't fire into Melee anymore which is also kinda huge
I'm not sure it's appropriate for the setting. Hell Pit abominations shouldn't be a thing yet and so shouldn't Skryre in its WHFB form. They came towards the end of the civil war afaik.
they also lost 'fog of death' on the Plague Censer Bearers. I guess they no longer are techinically 'censers', just flails now.
Im pissed that the broad horror i mounted my warlord on is gone.
Me to I have the old Nurglitch model
How is the Doomwheel in this? Isn't that an invention of Ikit claw? It really don't fit the timeline.
technically, the Warp Lightning cannon shouldn't be here either. Both were created relatively recently by Ikit Claw. Though techinically, Ikit claw Was alive during the time frame of The Old World.
Ikit is close to 1000 years old, I’m not sure of the time period of when he invented some of these weapons but I’m sure GW will just retcon lore to fit what they want
Can you imagine the outrage if they didn’t include the Doomwheel for lore reasons though?
Not a fan of the legacy lists personally. Seriously Vampire Lords leadership 8?!?!
For Skaven well. My favorite of the clans, Moulder, get shafted again.
Fewer spells across the board for legacy factions for their specific spells. Especially iconic ones.
In regards to Skaven as my old man brain works like hopscotch...lorewise has the Doomwheel even been made at this point?
I do recall the Doomwheel not being in one of their army books oddly enough. Not sure why.
Not a fan of the very limited magic item lists, had the opportunity to just basically translate every item, bloodline ability and so on over.
At least around here I just plan on using a mix of older army books and the new legacy/arcane journals to add a bit more heft and options back into the game.
The Doomwheel has existed since the 4th edition of the game, but as for lore wise, neither it or the Warp lightning cannon should have been invented yet at this point in the timeline.
I hope GW go back and look at skaven and consider just putting in a mount option at least for the warlords and maybe the wolf rats, still least you can ally in some chaos stuff to help out .. demon princes / dragon ogres / or a big old dragon or some mounted units
Ho, I'm new and only really into lore and novels and clocked this by mistake (no offence) but at start you said about the data sheets being PDF now so you don't need to but a book. Surely the data is all online, isn't it?
Double check. You're wrong you can have as many chieftains as you want, but only 1 warlock engineer, master assassin, or plague priest per 1000 points.
Gw nerfed it last minute as the rumors said then 😅
Sad stormfiends sounds. Would have been cool if wolfrats come back. Stormfiends too would be nice to be back too. I guess need to tinker in skavenblight yes yes
I can sort of understand Stormfiends being an End Times thing, but same, gutted for Wolf Rats. Was looking for an excuse to kitbash some. Guess I'll just port their old rules across and adapt them for friendly games.
6 pts! Thats outrageously expensive! Where are my 2pt Skavenslaves! The Sadness! Are we missing Poison wind Mortars too?
only if you give them both spears and shields. shields are +1pts, spears are +1pts. so hand weapon and shields are 5pts/models, which IIRC, was what it always was for clanrats.
@@skarnak1 I was always that team too.
I recommend you go look at the pdf, clan rats are 4 and there are mortars.
@@LSOP- 4pts a clanrat with only light armor and hand weapon. +1 pt for shield, +1 pt for spear.
Chaos Dwarfs next por favor!
My group will allow me to try old Screaming Bell rules so yeah 🎉
Today they are uploaded (and now downloaded). I will read all this days, but I want your thoughts.
Played my first game with skaven two days ago. They’ve definitely lost some of their character, which is sad, though they definitely feel a little more stable. Still, id rather they maintained the character. Risk and reward was kind of the point in my opinion.
Any chance you'll discuss your thoughts on the other legacy factions such as lizardmen?
So with 1 Warlock Engineer I could have 1 Jezzails unit, 1 Globadier unit and 1 Warp Lightning Cannon correct?
Old Grey Seer was 240 but started at level 4. So very very minor cost reduction
SKAVEEEEEN ! thanks !
what does "they will never be updated" exactly mean?
AHHHH YES-YES!!!
Hello,
What do you think about the Skaven Warp Lightning Cannon, is it magical according to old world rules? And is the Warpfire Thrower magical?
no they are not. which is odd, considering they use warpstone as a base. None of the skaven weapon teams are magical weapons anymore, and they all use warpstone. they should count as magical attacks.
Very confusing! We have Warp Lightning magic, but Warp Lightning Cannon is not magical!?@@skarnak1
@@skarnak1 that would be because our book was pretty much just phoned in.
@@dragomirdimov4196 well, at least the Jezzails count as magical, the Hellpit abomination's attacks are magical. They also neutered Poison wind globes. Now they are S2 and always wound on a 6. They used to always wound on 4+
skaven weapon teams no longer count as magical weapons either.
Sadly no ratling guns. They were all killed in tragic accident involving a crossbow and an exploding donkey
No Verminlord. 😢
The timeline we are before the first vermin tide where they summoned him.
Vampire: Not receiving support because they are lagacy
Me: *laughs in using tomb kings rules for vampires*
Nathan, Is Rathan allowed as a character? I know that you're happy that Clan Pestilens is represented here.
No mutant rat ogres, *sigh*
Sad stormfiend sounds
Also missing Stormfiends
Skaven are arguably the weakest faction in the game from a competitive standpoint atm (or is there another one that you would say is worse?) and since legacy factions won't get any support it's not gonna change :/
lol don’t buy into the “competitive” bs. It’s a specialist game now it’s not mainline, it’s not meant to be competitive. Also the games new people are new comp and no comp. You’re counting out an army that has literally only being played for like 2 months. Chill out there bud.
Rip Skaven Slaves, guess they will be working in the mines this edition :p
No master moulder, wolfrats, vermin lord nor slaves... 😢
Master moulder is under the Packmaster heading.
No slaves.....BOO!
Get off the woke shit GW call em levy's. Amazing how Brets can have peasants but Skaven can't.
@@poxous3854 chaos dwarfs "laborers"
Mortar, Ratling Guns, Warpflame.. and more is missing :(
They're in weapon teams on the pdf list.
Read
I’m thinking there’ll be a Warhammer: The New World with Lizardmen, Skaven, Dark Elves and Vampire Counts.
Best fuzzy bois yes yes
Dang no Slaves? Or did GW consider them politically incorrect lol.
That's probably what GW were thinking, also I've checked online and slaves themselves are not currently available from GW everything else is at least purchasable (if out of stock) if you do want to start a Skaven army and play it in the Old Word rule set
@@warsmithgalvinc4151 Or renamed them something like "Laborers" or " Underground dwellers"
@@warsmithgalvinc4151slaves never had minis, you just used clanrats
@gstellar96 they did have models in 4th 5th ed. Some of the plastic clanrats have chains and collars to.
No LLs ;-/
Tbf I reckon they’ll progressively add more units and progress the lore and add these factions back in
What about Stormfiends? They shouldnt be in TOW
No they were an end times unit.
@@LSOP-i guess i could use Then as rat ogres or smth
Well, the Skaven will have more space in AoS. Verminlords before EoT didn't exist, so, these are the Skaven of the 5th, 6th edition? Skaven do not need them, they have a lot of things. Strange the missing slaves
Maybe the slaves missing is more to do with current day politics..maybe not a good look to have slaves in a game? Who knows..was a funny unit to have
Verminlords have existed since the 4th edition of the game. I know, I played Skaven since then.
Rats.
No Slaves! I am done. Booooo! Also no Warpfire.
No slaves…….. 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢 no Vermin Lord…… no stormfiends………. KKTHANKSBYE
Good riddance Skaven magic
You're wrong from the very start you can only have 0-1 warlock/priest/Assassin per 1000 points it's extremely limiting and invalidates most of your video.