@Dig Ol' Bicks I am holding no one accountable for anything. His suggestions would be valuable to ME, if they significantly increased my bench press. Without PEDs, people reach a certain level, for me, a rather high one, from which they cannot progress. There are tradeoffs for every strategy. "Assistance" movements use up muscular and neural resources that are needed for maximum and near maximum efforts. Too many low rep/low set movements deplete the same. Too few do not sufficiently challenge type IIB fibers. Too many higher rep/higher set lifts do not activate either Type II fiber very well. I suspect that this man promotes the idea of general health muscularity, not maximal strength. He is probably capable of coaching people into heavier bench presses, but I would probably take them heavier. His goal is apparently moderate body building. Mine is pure strength, but if he had the formula for increasing my bench press, I am listening. He does promise an increased bench press, therefore my comment is logical and appropriate.
I'm a french guy but I believe I understand English better than some English people. Dude is not saying that those exercices are not giving you anything. He is saying that the risk of injuries is there for some people . And you can do the same in a safer way. Maybe this comment will help the English people
I found out just 2 weeks ago that I randomly got pain in my knees from doing those. It felt so weird, cuz I thought this can't happen. Now I have confirmation and I will have it completely removed from my training.
Man, people keep saying "well Arnold did chest flys and I'm sure he knows more than this guy". Arnie was THE man in the 70's but if he was 25 years old now, having knowledge of modern training and nutrition, wouldn't he maybe have a different view? I mean, Aristotle (super smart guy in his day) thought that the earth was the centre of the universe. However, with greater understanding, we now know that's not the case. So really then, SHUSH!
I agree. Some people feel that they should follow Arnold's plan just because he did it. Some folks are afraid of changes and will eventually be that guy seeing someone like Jeff because they tore up their pecs by overloading their flys.
And Arnold tore his pec multiple times doing flys. Here's the thing, if you watch this channel, you know there are alternative exercises that will give all the same benefits, like floor flys and cable crossovers.
That's an awesome point bro! Never looked at it that way. But as i tell everyone. Do what works for you, but remember quality and safety before anything. Good reply dude!
NO bullshit I've injured myself in 3 of those workouts so I know he knows what hes talking about... i no longer do any of these workouts and the pain has went away...
This is why I hated playing football. All the coaches were just mongoloids that had zero knowledge of actual science and had everyone injuring themselves with exercises like these.
john McLEIN same i have't workout for 5 years because of that workout, i started again to workout and im still doing it dont know with what to replace it
Only because people in the comments don't seem to understand: Having a strong foundational knowledge of anatomy and body mechanics > your opinion because you've been doing an exercise and it hasn't injured you yet. Coming from an occupational therapist who works in hand therapy and shoulder rehab, Jeff and I just don't want to see you injured and in our clinics as patients, that is the point of this video. Shoulder impingement is real, folks. 🤷♀️
@@litt_000 Yes, but I don't actually want people to get hurt if they can help it. Accidents and illnesses happen. So when facing the unexpected, healthcare providers will still be there to help get people back to where they need to be. Trust me, there is plenty of "business" to be had with accidents alone! Even during a pandemic, my clinic hardly slowed at all.
this guys is talking truth, i did leg extensions a lot 2 years a go and developed a knee problem which i had to heal for around 10 months. i never did them ever since
Does anyone know if it's ok to do hamstring extensions like you would on quads but for hamstrings or does it work the same way and put too much stress on your knee.
With hamstring curls, you're not placing pressure on the tendons in your knee. The knee is a ridiculously comlicated joint, as anyone who has ever popped one will tell you (I speak from painful experience). Leg extensions are a terrible idea. Always!
I did all of these when I was young and didn't know better back in the '90s and early '00s. Fast forward to age 38 and I had labral tears develop in both of my shoulders in a matter of a month, most likely due to years of some of these exercises. Listen to Jeff, and and learn from the mistakes of guys like me. Oh, and hope you never have to deal with a massive labral tear - it can essentially kill your ability to do countless exercises without surgery, leave you with constant pain and instability ion your shoulder, and even with surgery, there's no guarantee you'll be able to do any number of exercises that involve your shoulders, which, when you think about, is nearly all exercises.
Alex Orr have you done the surgeries? If so I would like to know if you got back to the gym without much limitations..? Asking because I had a labral surgery on my left shoulder 7 months ago and my right shoulder 2 weeks ago. Can’t wait to get back to the gym.
Time to take a visit to the Iron Graveyard and pay our respects to 5 exercises...that belong to stay dead and buried! Watch to see my physical therapist's take on why we may want to steer away from these exercises and in the direction of other, more effective and less risk prohibitive alternatives! #fitnesstips #workouttips #exercise #exercisesforinjuries
Jeff, what about bodyweight, kneeling leg extensions? What about behind the neck olympic push press? Are these exercises bad because they are bad or are they bad because most people never do them right?
As a 57 y.o now that did many of these exercises, I know you speak truth. I would add DIPS to this list, as they are the worst in the long term. My shoulders ache now from the pain. Sometimes just putting on a belt kills me. I dont have arthritis anywhere else but in my shoulders due to dips. At one time I could do 100 and my triceps and shoulders were big and strong. I loved it and never listened to older guys that said SLOW DOWN or STOP doing those. Well, now 25 years later, the bone on bone pain I feel from wearing out the cartilage is not fun. I use turmeric to keep myself pain free but I can't do a single DIP now or many push ups due to the pain. LISTEN to this guy and be smart about working out. Women(or men) who like you for your looks only won't be around forever. Workout because it makes you feel good. Save your body for your older years, when being pain-free is SO IMPORTANT to daily life. Do yoga!
I agree with the dips. I've been lifting for 5years and the only time I've ever hurt myself is doing dips. I felt a tearing in my chest and a horrible pain. Apparently slightly dislocated rib from sternum and there's nothing to do for it. 2 years on it still causes me pain.
Being a pre-professional kinesiology major/ EMT/ Personal Trainer... this channel is amazing, giving different modifications to reduce unnecessary stress is amazing. I love the different modifications given . Keep this channel going!
Don't agree with him on the fly's. I never do them with dumbbells though because it's the one exercise that is inferior in free weight to it's machine counter part. Once the dumbbells are at the top/end of the movement, you are just letting your elbow joints hold them up, nothing is pulling your arms apart at that point in the movement and thus you chest is resting. With cables, the resistance is consistent throughout the whole movement, so even when my hands are together, the cables are still pulling them apart, thus still forcing my chest to contract. Much, much more effective and safer alternate to dumbbells.
He said that they can damage some accessory muscle that's doing most of the work at the beginning of the movement, whereas you can still target the pec with other exercises like cable pulldowns.
Acting DeMickey to be honest the way he showed the flies was wrong. You NEVER extend your arm all the way, always keep it bent when going down. He also stopped moving his bisept and only moved his forearm when trying to show that it doesn't stretch your pecks.
Totally agree! When your young and foolish these exercises seem like a good idea, flash forward to the ripe old age of 54 and you have a much better understanding of joint pain! Great lesson and I hope young athletes listen...
It's not opinion. He's an expert in his field. I trust him 100%, I've injured myself on two of these 5 exercises. There's no reason for him being wrong.
Forensic osteologist here.... I agree with what you said. I use to do these exercises all the time throughout my freshman and sophomore years in college. However, once I learned how ridiculously easy it is to injure ball and socket joints I stopped doing them out of fear of damaging something. Very informative video! Good job man!
Couldn't agree more with the no-fly one. I partially tore my rotator cuff on my right shoulder and have bursitis on both shoulders because of doing an inclined chest fly exercise. Ever since (3 years now) I have had very limited options and range of motion at the gym for my shoulders, chest, biceps, triceps, basically everything. :-( I'd give anything to go back to before the incident, but Jeff is right - it could only take one rep to end someone's career or in my case as a non-professional athlete leave you damaged for life. I cannot swim, play squash, tennis, etc any longer... Or even lifting everyday objects in every day life, in some positions, is impossible now. Be care guys - Jeff has very good points about all these no-nos.
Jesus Max Hernandez No, not too much weight. Obviously not 5 lbs, but some weight that I could do sets of 8-12 reps. The problem is not the weight, as Jeff also points out. It's the position you put yourself in - it's very awkward and unnatural. Remember, doing weird and stupid things doesn't result in better outcome - trust me, I did that and it didn't work! And I have to live the rest of my life with the outcome. Hard work and consistency is the key.
+RollinsOwensMizAmbroseGirl Of all the recommendations, dropping leg extensions had the least technical rational. No matter what, the quadricep places a torque around the knee. The hamstring can counter that torque, but net-net, the hamstring can't generate the same net forces that the quad can. The real problem with the LE isn't the basics of the movement, but the torque profile. At 90 degrees or less, there is a risk of that the tendons can move out of place. The maximum torque starts at about 110 degrees and as the leg extends to 180 degrees risks of any injury are small. The best LE machines have cams that apply little torque at 90 degrees, build to a max and then drop to a lower torque at 180 degrees. Most gym goers are not savvy enough to understand the differences among machines.
Michael R. Zboray thank you that was very informative. Some people (e.g. me) don't go to very fancy gyms so they don't have the ability to choose which machine is better.
+Michael R. Zboray i have been taught to do them that way also... as you don't really need the full range of motion for it to be an effective exercise. ( since its an isolation exercise)
upright rows.... I fu...ed my right shoulder on this exercise.... 15 years ago and today still bearing the consequences... wish someone made me aware of the dangers then
Ive gotten to the point where I barely train my shoulders because training them is such a risk of injury and you use them in so many other movements that arent for focusing on them, that i feel the need to train them is just not there. Military press, lateral cable extensions, and v-bar press are the only direct shoulder workouts i do, as well as occasional shrugs but shrugs are also terrible for your shoulders.
I wish I'd known quite how bad leg extensions were years ago. My legs are pretty strong so I could move a lot of weight doing extensions, but I ended up messing up my patellar tendon (the one under the kneecap) gradually over time, without really noticing. In the end I had to give up playing soccer because of it, which I really regret.
+Danny Saldana - No idea, but the pain got worse and worse when I played, and it took longer and longer to go away. I am able to run again without having sore tendons afterwards, and I've incorporated squats into my routine (far from my max weight, though), and so far things are going well, but everything stills feels somewhat fragile, and it's been 2 years since I quit playing soccer. It's all the twisting and kicking that makes soccer hard on the knees, too.
Thanks for the upload..I didn't warm up on a flyes excersise,and caused inmingement on 1 shoulder..the weakest one..4 years ago...still gives me problems now..so,I know what you mean man!
Good to see this video. Several years ago I had a frozen shoulder and the physical therapist showed me which exercises I needed to drop from my program. I now work out smart--and safe. Thanks for sharing.
So I shouldn't do dumbbell flies due to the potentiality that "one bad rep and you're gonna have a bad time"? Come on.. It's a perfectly decent exercise. I'd agree that cable pulls are preferable, particularly those swanky 3D crossovers, but if you're at a crappy gym with no cables, or at home using a bench, it doesn't get much better than dumbell flies for targeting the pecs, particularly when you adjust the gradient of your bench between reps.
xLuye A regular bench press is a different action to the squeezing sensation of doing flies and you need to do both types of exercise to get rounded and defined pecs. If I could only choose one, I'd actually go for the flies. The results are great. I think brahs just like the word bench - "how much can you BENCH, brahh" etc etc
Thom Harrison I can certainly see where you are coming from. But it really is an excellent exercise with good and proper form. Unfortunately a lot of "brahhs" will just focus on "How much?" rather than "Can you benchpress?", completely ignoring the full range of movement, shoulder posture and tightening of the back etc. Personally, I just started with the barbell itself, adding a little weight every session. Really don't need a great load of weight to know you are activating a broad range of muscles. Flies might not be as terrible for starting out, but seems like it will be difficult to maintain good form as you progress due to the momentum caused by distance to the core.
Thanks for such an informative video. Neither my traumatologist nor physical therapist took 10 minutes to explain to me why my shoulder is fucked up in this level of detail. I am literally fixing my own back and shoulders with your videos.
Amen to that. With my multiple sublexes on either shoulder, I can barely throw a tennis ball with much force, let alone do multiple reps of controlled overhead presses. The thought alone deters me from even trying them.
Potter tons Hang in there, I recently had rotator cuff surgery. Shortly after the mere thought of military press was painful. 7 weeks post op and the only thing holding me back is common sense. I'm still soar but feel I could easily lift half of what I use too. In the mean time, work your core, do some cardio try some creative pursuits...anything to keep you from dwelling on your temporary limitations. Wish you the best with recovery.
Thanks. I'm an absolute novice when it comes to weight training, so the fact that AX touches on alternatives for safe lifting, I may look into purchasing the routine.
It’s so good to see someone actually explaining the biological reasons why an exercise works or not, shows that this guy does his research and knows his stuff! Kudos for that!
As a healthcare professional I can tell you nobody can touch this guy’s videos. If you are into training with weights, this dude covers it all. At 46 it’s important I know the anatomy and physiology behind the movements as I have seen way too many meat head friends injured in a way that affects their training indefinitely. Thank you for sharing your expertise Athleanx!!
I love it Teacher Jeff! I'm studying to be a physical therapist (Thanks in part to you) and I'm also a personal trainer. I love your videos, especially the scientific ones. This makes me think back to my anatomy and physiology class that I took at the University. Don't be afraid to get scientific, instead share some knowledge, explain, and teach! Awesome job. Keep these videos coming!
Having had two shoulder surgeries on one shoulder, and nearly two years of physical therapy I've become rather educated on shoulders, and this guy is spot on. Shoulder is the most complex joint in our body and so many popular exercises cause significant and dangerous stress on it. I'd take this dudes advice!..my shoulder injury was a result of military service in Afghanistan and not from workout mistakes, but now that it has been compromised, I make a big effort to train smart.
Its not the movements that fuck you up. People are doing these movements and further facilitating the imbalances that they already have. These movements exist for a reason. Look at CT Fletcher, Mike Rashid, Bulo....they all use them (specifically behind the neck presses) and those guys are amazingly strong and huge
It works for them... They are the lucky one's. You ll see ppl practice playing ball they're whole life. But won't ever be in the NBA or come close to being Jordan Kobe Magic Larry none of them. Ppl smoke cigarette s their whole life and never have prob yet you get some ppl who smoke for a month yes a month and get lung cancer. Just cause it doesn't happen to a few don't mean it can't happen to you.
I get what your saying but thats not my point. Here's an example, say someone is doing front squats and they're doing them perfectly. The next guy starts doing them and has problems with it. So is it the movement that is wrong? No. It's the person who has imbalances and weaknesses that make it difficult. Another example is when someone is doing behind the neck presses and they feel no pain (besides soreness). When the next guy comes along and has problems, it's because he already has something wrong, it isn't the movement's fault. The person injuries are just further facilitating the injuries. Sorry the long ass post hahaha
Man i've been working out for 16 years already and only recently started to watch all those youtube videos. So far "they" told me that bench press sucks, flies sucks, pretty much all standard exercises for shoulders and back sucks etc. And substitute is some kind of crossfit bullshit or a machine, at least they mention dumbells from time to time. This guy is right in a way that a lot of those exercises could lead to injuries. what he is not telling you is that you have to have right technique to do them, carefully select weights and change exercises on let's say monthly or two months basis. For instance quad strech you shouldn't move your knee further your foot the angle always have to be 90 degrees as add on you can band your knees for more "protection". When doing the fly bend your elbows like hugging a ball sort of and you will be fine. Although i do agree that "good mornings" as he calls it, bullshit. I'm not trying to be an expert here just sharing what i know.
@@redbeardevildead3459 the machine chest fly is fine because its controlled for you and you can only go back so far, DB flys are a no no because of what Jeff said, can tear your pecs and put yourself out of action for a serious amount of time.
@@harrylewin3180 I think if you wanna do DB chest flys, you better do it on the floor. Because the floor itself will restrict your elbow from going to far deep.
John Hurley Was going to mention this too. When I started doing fly's, I watched a clip of Dorian Yates doing the exercise as it should be. Agree with the behind the neck shoulder press though.
John Hurley I do them with bent arms (like a bench press) if the load is heavy. If the weight is light enough, I keep the arms outstretched. A hammer grip works well for me too when I want to work the inner chest.
I started lifting over 25 years ago. Do what gives you the biggest pump (blood flow), feels great, and doesn't hurt. No bodies are built the same. What may feel great to your buddy may not to you. Lot's of options. Never had problems with dumb flys. Just don't go real heavy or to far out. Listen to your body, it will say "when." Most chest tears are done using a whole lot of weight, wrestling, or fighting. When to much adrenaline overrides the bodies true ability. Got mine in a fight. Would recommend doing barbell presses in front. I used to do them behind, liked them, got strong at it, but as I got older, it just felt a bit more natural in front. I mostly choose dumbbell overhead press because straight down with no bar to dodge works best for ME. I did dumbbell upright rows at the end my shoulder workout recently. My body wanted it and it's not that much different than a side lateral raise. The guy in the video might just like these. Never did like barbell uprights, they just didn't feel good. Leg extensions are great during or after squats or leg press ( lunges are painful to MY knees). Did these last night. I like to start off doing one at at time, then double as blood pumps them. I do toes facing face, then toes pointed out to really feel that pump/burn. I'd highly recommend using good commercial equipment for this exercise and not a version (with no adjustments) demonstrated in this video. Never liked barbell good mornings. A safe low back hyperextension is done on a commercial lying leg curl machine. My low back gets hit with seated cable rows and/or barbell rows.
@@theyetti90 the school system is designed from the top down to replicate a prison. It's entire purpose is to stifle innovative thinking. if you want the reality of the school system in under 3 hours here you go. th-cam.com/video/MgNXpvxsqa0/w-d-xo.html
@@TrevorHamberger without watching this I decided to homeschool my kids when I was 17, in 2007. For some reason I was thinking this was going to have something to do with exercise, because of the initial comment, and video.
Anyone who has had an intense condition like shoulder impingement/tendonitis would understand exactly what this guy is saying. I do not believe in all the high protein bullshit, but I certainly know from a Masters in Exercise Science and many years instructing patients at the physical therapy clinic that these flye movements are just asking for trouble. This video was spot on for the exercises he said to avoid.
strongly disagree on a couple of these. chest fly's the most, but upright rows I do a bit different; that's for traps not shoulders though.chest flys stretch the muscles that do the primary pressing movement; not directly the pecs, but it does effect the workout significantly in a positive regard.
Traps are your shoulders don't get that twisted - your 'shoulder girdle' technically includes everything between the distal head of the humerus to the sterno-clavicular joint. Anyway, this video is good and he usually has good advice.
Ryan Atkins people often distinguish traps as upper back; and yes, the traps help elevate the scapula, but now he's just plain wrong about upright rows hurting your traps. the video was put together well and had good audio and whatnot, but to tell people chest flys and upright rows are unsafe and shouldn't be done? from experience I'd confidently say that's poor advice
I have had four personal trainers in the past. Back when i had money. I don't now but this guy has better qualifications than any of the people that trained me and people get hurt in the gym so of course you want to exercise not just safe but the safest way. I think this guy is excellent.
Wow! These are all classic exercises. I wish I saw this video when I started lifting back when I was 15 or 16. Would have saved me a lot of wasted time. They all feel awkward and strain the joints more than the muscle.
Ha. I like how you arrogantly said, "What are we doing here? Chest flies, or Coracobrachialis flies?" and then you proceeded to tell us how one bad rep can cause a pec tear. I'm sorry, but was that a contradiction? I see your point on how you can get injured from these exercises, but it's the idiots that don't know their own limitations and/or body well enough to complete the exercises correctly. Also, if "Chest flies" don't actually work your chest, then chest fly machines wouldn't exist. A seated chest fly machine does the exact same thing as flat bench dumbbell flies do, with the exception of you needing to have more control and balance, and the extra gravitational pull on the dumbbells. BTW I didn't make this comment to bash on you.. Much love brotha!
***** Haha, don't consider it a bash. Happy to explain. I never said chest flies DON'T WORK THE CHEST, I said they don't provide the extra stretch on the chest that those performing them claim they do. The coracobrachialis absorbs the extended range of motion of the fly NOT the pec. That said, due to the increased length of the lever when the arms are extended, combined with the load of the dumbbell, the entire shoulder girdle can reach its "breaking point" and therefore leave the pec major extremely vulnerable to injury.
+Mohit Garg I do lat pulldowns and feel it in my upper back area - traps & rear shoulders. I do them carefully and with manageable weight, 12-15 reps, and see no reason why it would injure me, and muscles definitely ARE being engaged in order to pull the weight downward, so it's doing something.
x2. Same here. They ARE Very Unnatural and Very strainfull to the rear delt area. Also,i could see where one could be in danger of injuring themself by hitting that big lumpy bone area that is right between the upper back and the back of the neck.
I always though chest flies were good, but i never had good chest development. Today i was curious and after few benchpresses i did the exercise with the cabelcross and my chest is destroyed now. Had sick workout even better than benchpress. you actually hit the upper and lower peck with same prinicp but different direction of the arm. Very well said Jeff, will change my workout totaly. Time to build huge chest
OMG... I wish I would have seen this video when I was a teenager, but there was no Internet then. Your are SO right about the #1. Worse Exercise you mentioned, FLYES. I ruined both of my shoulder joints by doing them, and at the age of 65, I can hardly put on my shirt. Keep up the good work, Athlean-X.
I used to do all of these back in the day and I now have bad shoulders. I stay away from these exercises now but the damage is done and I deal with pain on the regular.
Everyone has their opinion even ones that like to over think things ... my opinion is that the dumbell fly is an amazing exercise if done correctly. I wouldn't recommend it for somebody who is not familiar with weight lifting (but would recoomend machine flys) as it could be an exercise that could injure easily. All BS aside ... dumbbell flys will never be buried being that all of us who have a built chest know its a key factor in building a great shaped chest. You do have some good points in my opinion but not all are accurate. I think people should look at who is giving advice before they think just cause somebody is over thinking things making themselves sound so technical .. that its true.
I agree, I've been doing them for sometime now and definitely see the results. Although I must admit after watching Buff Dudes I found that I wasn't doing them properly.
The only problem with the dumbbell flys is how the weight reduces from your pecs as your arms go up, at the top of the lift the weight is pressing down into your arms and not pressing on your pecs. With a machine the tension is on your pecs for the whole lift.
Stevie Russell I dont see why that is a problem really but more just the difference between the two above mentioned ways of doing flys. Your correct with what your saying but as far as it being a problem, I dont see it. I actually find it benificial that the weight load on the pecs increases the more you go into the fly position with dumbbells when your trying shape your pecs and build mass/strength to the outer pecs.
C Hammer Well I like to be able to really squeeze my pecs at the top of each rep and with dumbbells I just don't get that same squeeze as I do with a machine :P To each his own.
Stevie Russell I guess the only thing Im getting out of what your saying is that you do only machine flys for pectoral development? The reason I say that is because dumbell/machine flys are only a couple of several exercises needed to build a competitive chest. If your looking to go into the gym and get things done fast (which I dont reoccomend if your looking for results) then machine flys would be great for that. Dumbell flys are affective but like building any other muscle group need to be used in combination with other exercises. TBH with you I do both.. Dumbbell flys heavy and later machine flys with higher reps less weight. Your always going to use secondary muscles when resistance training and some exercise may isolate a little more then others but it does not mean to burry the exercise as this video is saying only because there is possibility for injury. Proper form is what is key for any exercise to be affective and if its not done, the exercise is not affective and injury is a very high risk of course. Bottom line.. Bodybuilding isnt limited to ONLY isolated exercises.. Thats why bodybuilding is not easy because it takes experience and time to figure out ones own body. Dumbbell flys are just as much of a tool for pectoral development as machine flys.. Its just up to the person themself as to whether they want to build a non balanced shape versus a balanced shape by utilizing multiple exercises.
If you want a personal trainer I recommend jeff (athlean-x).. you only need someone to tell you what to do.. why you need to do it.. and why its beneficial... totally worth the money if you have it
THANK YOU! Excellent info, I'm 72 year old male and been vegan for 8 years now. I work out with free weights about 5 hours per week. I have really benefited from your expertise especially this graveyard video. I supplement the free weights work with a Total Gym routine on days when I don't use free weights. Any comments? Thanks so much. All the best Anthony
I have a suggestion about the *making of your videos*. It would be really helpful, though I don't know how expensive it would be, but it would be really helpful if you could incorporate an x-ray image or picture out to the side _and_ have that image highlight itself when you say one of the muscle groups you're trying to explain. That would also apply to the skeletal groups, if it needs to be said. Again I know nothing of expense in this regard, but I believe it would be infinitely helpful as far as your audience understanding the significance of what you are putting out.
Interesting. I've always beat myself up about not doing all these exercises because they caused me discomfort. Really thought I was missing out. Now I feel better. I also can't do tricep kickbacks. If I use meaningful weight, hurts my shoulder
Depending on weight, you can do a bent-over kickback with a barbell. Apparently, your long head's the only muscle that moves your arms back from the shoulder past your torso. It depends on your shape to not hit your butt though. You might be limited to the little set weight barbells, if you're in a gym. With an >300 lb. bench, the olympic bar alone was heavy for reps.
I cut my left index finger off by doing Flys laying down on the bench. someone left 35s on the floor, and I dropped my 45s down and caught my finger in between and severed everything off from behind the nail!
This happened to me too, I my finger got caught in between the dumbbell on the floor and the one i was holding and my finger like exploded. The tissue in my finger was coming out the bottom and lots of blood
the up right row is where i think i damaged my shoulder back in winter of this year.All those exercises I stop doing years ago when i started doing them they were painful very painful especially the upright and flys(which I was already working out with an injury pushing thru it). Those Chinese Guys on TH-cam 6 pack abs fanatics reccomend the flys for the chest while you are the 2nd one who rejected its use of the fly. I still see guys doing and I see no one I mean none doing good mornings any more. Good Video I can see you are in NY working with the Mets .
+Suzanne Taylor They GoodMornings have its place as hinge joint movement or lower back but they are obsolete in my workout book might as well do the sit down back extension surprisingly good for lower back movement and not time consuming at all.
I’ve been doing many of these that you’ve listed. No surprise I’ve had to go to physical therapy for 2 different body parts in 2 years! 🙄🙄 Thank you so much, this was useful! 💕
12K thumbs down....? Free positive advise that will have you training ( injury free ) the rest of your training life. I started in ‘79, I wish I had a ‘free Jeff’ coaching me safely...... thank you Jeff, I have been following your advise for 8 years after finding your site ..... brilliant advise!
+Armin Gutjahr Well, what about doing the flys while not lying on a narrow bench, but on a wide one, or simply on the floor, so there is no realistic way of tearing anyting? Your arms/elbows will simply stop when they reach the floor, no way to get hurt.
@@planetdog1641 Having a strong foundational knowledge of anatomy and body mechanics > your opinion because you've been doing an exercise and it hasn't injured you yet. Don't wait until you're injured to stop.
Valid point he makes re working the hell out of the rectus femoris without any work done by the VMO. That'll have your patella underside scraping in no time.
As a past dancer, it's really easy to tell when an exercise will hurt you because it looks like a position you'd never be in for a performance. It's like an intuitive thing; if it looks wrong to me, its probably not good for my body.
Fantastic advice Jeff. I’m 53 yo and lift 5 out of 7 days. I’ve made these changes you suggest and can already feel the reduction in shoulder soreness and I’ve put on more lean muscle! Thanks mate.
@@stephensmith6230 Bad exercises are just bad no matter how you do them. Having a strong foundational knowledge of anatomy and body mechanics > your opinion because you've been doing an exercise and it hasn't injured you yet. Do DB High Pull at 5:50 instead, keep your wrists higher than the elbows.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
1 - Dumbbell Fly's (1:24)
2 - Behind the Neck Shoulder Press (2:53)
3 - Upright Rows (5:08)
4 - Good Mornings (6:37)
5 - Leg Extensions (7:58)
Rishabh Raj you’re a god
Legend, underrated comment.
(it's in the description)
Could you make a list over the exercise options he recommends over the wrong ones ?
Dam! I like leg extensions
I have followed this gentleman in lockdown since 23rd March . I am 59 live in UK. I am fitter , leaner and a lot stronger. Cheers mate.
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
That’s awesome man ...any tips?
How much stronger? If he can put 50 pounds on my bench press, I'm in. I am 70 and lift religiously in my home gym.
Behave yourself
@Dig Ol' Bicks I am holding no one accountable for anything. His suggestions would be valuable to ME, if they significantly increased my bench press. Without PEDs, people reach a certain level, for me, a rather high one, from which they cannot progress.
There are tradeoffs for every strategy. "Assistance" movements use up muscular and neural resources that are needed for maximum and near maximum efforts. Too many low rep/low set movements deplete the same. Too few do not sufficiently challenge type IIB fibers. Too many higher rep/higher set lifts do not activate either Type II fiber very well.
I suspect that this man promotes the idea of general health muscularity, not maximal strength. He is probably capable of coaching people into heavier bench presses, but I would probably take them heavier. His goal is apparently moderate body building. Mine is pure strength, but if he had the formula for increasing my bench press, I am listening. He does promise an increased bench press, therefore my comment is logical and appropriate.
I'm a french guy but I believe I understand English better than some English people. Dude is not saying that those exercices are not giving you anything. He is saying that the risk of injuries is there for some people . And you can do the same in a safer way. Maybe this comment will help the English people
He says don't do them in the title 🤷🏻♂️
Have to have the clickbait title :)
Jimmy Fantastic that is all
george o'connor cuz theres not stupid people in ever country huh?
John Manalo It says bad idea you blind?
Actually injured both knees with the leg extensions, had issues with them for about 3-4 years. I'd listen to this guy.
What leg exercises do you do for legs now?
@@fleadoggreen9062 do lunges intead
We kneel like that 10 hours a day at work, why would we do more?
I found out just 2 weeks ago that I randomly got pain in my knees from doing those. It felt so weird, cuz I thought this can't happen. Now I have confirmation and I will have it completely removed from my training.
Leg extentions are perfect
1: 1:22
2: 2:52
3: 5:07
4: 6:36
5: 7:58
Quinn Lochead tyyy
Quinn Lochead God bless you for this.
Quinn Lochead t
Quinn Lochead ח
You're my hero
Man, people keep saying "well Arnold did chest flys and I'm sure he knows more than this guy". Arnie was THE man in the 70's but if he was 25 years old now, having knowledge of modern training and nutrition, wouldn't he maybe have a different view? I mean, Aristotle (super smart guy in his day) thought that the earth was the centre of the universe. However, with greater understanding, we now know that's not the case. So really then, SHUSH!
I agree. Some people feel that they should follow Arnold's plan just because he did it. Some folks are afraid of changes and will eventually be that guy seeing someone like Jeff because they tore up their pecs by overloading their flys.
And Arnold tore his pec multiple times doing flys. Here's the thing, if you watch this channel, you know there are alternative exercises that will give all the same benefits, like floor flys and cable crossovers.
Arnold still recommends chest flies. Still does them himself. He doesn’t have to be 25 again he’s still around...
That's an awesome point bro! Never looked at it that way. But as i tell everyone. Do what works for you, but remember quality and safety before anything. Good reply dude!
Arnold did more than this guy...
NO bullshit I've injured myself in 3 of those workouts so I know he knows what hes talking about... i no longer do any of these workouts and the pain has went away...
Behind the neck shoulder press is the riskiest for me. Slightly incorrect position causes a shooting pain in my left shoulder.
i fucked my left shoulder from this fucking exercise
This is why I hated playing football. All the coaches were just mongoloids that had zero knowledge of actual science and had everyone injuring themselves with exercises like these.
john McLEIN same i have't workout for 5 years because of that workout, i started again to workout and im still doing it dont know with what to replace it
the_!ndo_kemist hey watch your mouth .. youre talkin like an idiot. Dont use the word to belittle the challenged
Only because people in the comments don't seem to understand: Having a strong foundational knowledge of anatomy and body mechanics > your opinion because you've been doing an exercise and it hasn't injured you yet.
Coming from an occupational therapist who works in hand therapy and shoulder rehab, Jeff and I just don't want to see you injured and in our clinics as patients, that is the point of this video. Shoulder impingement is real, folks. 🤷♀️
but you gain money with injured people, right?
@@litt_000 Yes, but I don't actually want people to get hurt if they can help it. Accidents and illnesses happen. So when facing the unexpected, healthcare providers will still be there to help get people back to where they need to be. Trust me, there is plenty of "business" to be had with accidents alone! Even during a pandemic, my clinic hardly slowed at all.
@@frannyj401
Thanks for pointing this out.
this guys is talking truth, i did leg extensions a lot 2 years a go and developed a knee problem which i had to heal for around 10 months. i never did them ever since
yeah probably cause your quads got too big for your hamstrings
Does anyone know if it's ok to do hamstring extensions like you would on quads but for hamstrings or does it work the same way and put too much stress on your knee.
+Griffin Kegley that exercise is fine, the motion is the same as arm curls.
With hamstring curls, you're not placing pressure on the tendons in your knee. The knee is a ridiculously comlicated joint, as anyone who has ever popped one will tell you (I speak from painful experience). Leg extensions are a terrible idea. Always!
same here :(
I did all of these when I was young and didn't know better back in the '90s and early '00s. Fast forward to age 38 and I had labral tears develop in both of my shoulders in a matter of a month, most likely due to years of some of these exercises. Listen to Jeff, and and learn from the mistakes of guys like me. Oh, and hope you never have to deal with a massive labral tear - it can essentially kill your ability to do countless exercises without surgery, leave you with constant pain and instability ion your shoulder, and even with surgery, there's no guarantee you'll be able to do any number of exercises that involve your shoulders, which, when you think about, is nearly all exercises.
Alex Orr have you done the surgeries? If so I would like to know if you got back to the gym without much limitations..? Asking because I had a labral surgery on my left shoulder 7 months ago and my right shoulder 2 weeks ago. Can’t wait to get back to the gym.
Time to take a visit to the Iron Graveyard and pay our respects to 5 exercises...that belong to stay dead and buried! Watch to see my physical therapist's take on why we may want to steer away from these exercises and in the direction of other, more effective and less risk prohibitive alternatives!
#fitnesstips #workouttips #exercise #exercisesforinjuries
Thanks for the infos Jeff
Jeff, what about bodyweight, kneeling leg extensions? What about behind the neck olympic push press? Are these exercises bad because they are bad or are they bad because most people never do them right?
***** you were probably doing them wrong and/or with weight that was to heavy. oh and please don't break my fucking jaw for this comment...
I'm curious, your arms look disproportionately large. Is it a genetic thing or do you train your arms especially hard?
Maniifest Destini he's just especially bad ass lol
sees Jeff posted
me: retracts shoulder blades,
straightens lower back, pushes
chest forward, sits up straight on the toilet, then click.
You use a toilet instead of a chair or do you take your PC to the toilet ? Do you see what im getting at ?
@@matejstemberk8110 on a phone...
And starts doing face pulls using your gfs legs
@@akshayanvekar797 😳
As a 57 y.o now that did many of these exercises, I know you speak truth. I would add DIPS to this list, as they are the worst in the long term. My shoulders ache now from the pain. Sometimes just putting on a belt kills me. I dont have arthritis anywhere else but in my shoulders due to dips. At one time I could do 100 and my triceps and shoulders were big and strong. I loved it and never listened to older guys that said SLOW DOWN or STOP doing those. Well, now 25 years later, the bone on bone pain I feel from wearing out the cartilage is not fun. I use turmeric to keep myself pain free but I can't do a single DIP now or many push ups due to the pain. LISTEN to this guy and be smart about working out. Women(or men) who like you for your looks only won't be around forever. Workout because it makes you feel good. Save your body for your older years, when being pain-free is SO IMPORTANT to daily life. Do yoga!
I wonder how he feels about crossfit?🤔
Valuable advice thanks for sharing will stay away from dips.
I agree with the dips. I've been lifting for 5years and the only time I've ever hurt myself is doing dips. I felt a tearing in my chest and a horrible pain. Apparently slightly dislocated rib from sternum and there's nothing to do for it. 2 years on it still causes me pain.
you can easily regrow and repair that cartilage. go search for Arthritis and joint replacement by dr joel wallach
Dips are alright as long as you don’t go too far down, that’s when the shoulders get impacted badly.
This guy literally explains every small detail that ive ever had a question about. Just subscribed. Glad i did.
Sly Ny this dude's an idiot
Landon Waisner stfu
You don't sound convincing at all.
al tf u talkin about
Landon Waisner explain how he’s and idiot. let me hear the bullshit going through your mind😂
Flys were a staple exercise of both Arnold and Franco, both of whom had some of the best chest development ever.
+popvinnik Steroids
You're projecting
+bjscaggles brilliant retort
+popvinnik it was better than yours.
+DirkAndDestroy No it wasn't.
Being a pre-professional kinesiology major/ EMT/ Personal Trainer... this channel is amazing, giving different modifications to reduce unnecessary stress is amazing. I love the different modifications given . Keep this channel going!
Don't agree with him on the fly's. I never do them with dumbbells though because it's the one exercise that is inferior in free weight to it's machine counter part. Once the dumbbells are at the top/end of the movement, you are just letting your elbow joints hold them up, nothing is pulling your arms apart at that point in the movement and thus you chest is resting. With cables, the resistance is consistent throughout the whole movement, so even when my hands are together, the cables are still pulling them apart, thus still forcing my chest to contract. Much, much more effective and safer alternate to dumbbells.
+1 cable is awesome
I don't get you. You just agreed with him!
LulzRoyce He isn't saying that it doesn't work your chest. He is just saying it is an inferior exercise that puts your shoulder at a disadvantage.
Tom Copsey He says cables over dumbbells. I agree with LulzRoyce I prefer the cable flys over the dumbbell flys.
Tom Copsey He says cables over dumbbells. I agree with LulzRoyce I prefer the cable flys over the dumbbell flys.
1. Flys
2. BTN press
3. Upright Rows
4. Good Mornings
5. Leg Extensions
Why shouldn't I do flies? Arnold did flies. Maybe I should just watch the video...
He said that they can damage some accessory muscle that's doing most of the work at the beginning of the movement, whereas you can still target the pec with other exercises like cable pulldowns.
Acting DeMickey to be honest the way he showed the flies was wrong. You NEVER extend your arm all the way, always keep it bent when going down. He also stopped moving his bisept and only moved his forearm when trying to show that it doesn't stretch your pecks.
Acting DeMickey I know a lot of people who do all these sets while working out and they don't have any problems. It all comes down to proper technic.
Johnny Cash I got injury doing flies..still suffering from more than two months... I'm not able to go back to gym...
Totally agree! When your young and foolish these exercises seem like a good idea, flash forward to the ripe old age of 54 and you have a much better understanding of joint pain! Great lesson and I hope young athletes listen...
that is when youngers must listen to eldes
Scott Weaver should you do you like the best part about your new job is to be
Scott Weaver Hell I am only 24 and have had joints and most of these workouts I avoid now because I can feel what they can mess up.
Yup, I’m 15, fucked up my forearm thinking the exercise was a good idea.
Nice Rice which exercise?
Safety is hands down the most important thing when lifting. Great advice and great job on breaking it down for us.
this channel is like engineering explained for working out
Saad Zahid engineering explained is the truth!
Saad Zahid engineering explained is the best
Lmao, I’ve never made that connection until now. gg
Living beings are basically biological machines. It makes sense
Bioengineering Explained. lol
I know its wrong but it came to me fast.
Athlean-x: stay away from this exercises
Me: worry no more, i stay away from gym
That's killing your gains. 😉
LMAO 😂
Rip Gainz
Me:I Can just use my body weight
"I'll give you my opinion and let you decide if you agree" is basically what he said. Why so many dislikes?
because people hate different opinions lol
It's not opinion. He's an expert in his field. I trust him 100%, I've injured myself on two of these 5 exercises. There's no reason for him being wrong.
Cognitive dissonance. People don't like information that challenges their beliefs. They only like affirmations even if they're completely wrong.
*For sure do the exercise in **_Treat Your Own Rotator Cuff_** if you lift a lot - good shoulder stability = no injuries.*
Agreed!
I have that book - very good.
hps://th-cam.com/video/8pg_75icD8Q/w-d-xo.html
Forensic osteologist here.... I agree with what you said. I use to do these exercises all the time throughout my freshman and sophomore years in college. However, once I learned how ridiculously easy it is to injure ball and socket joints I stopped doing them out of fear of damaging something. Very informative video! Good job man!
Couldn't agree more with the no-fly one. I partially tore my rotator cuff on my right shoulder and have bursitis on both shoulders because of doing an inclined chest fly exercise. Ever since (3 years now) I have had very limited options and range of motion at the gym for my shoulders, chest, biceps, triceps, basically everything. :-(
I'd give anything to go back to before the incident, but Jeff is right - it could only take one rep to end someone's career or in my case as a non-professional athlete leave you damaged for life. I cannot swim, play squash, tennis, etc any longer... Or even lifting everyday objects in every day life, in some positions, is impossible now. Be care guys - Jeff has very good points about all these no-nos.
C-C Thanks for sharing!
Did u do too much weight? If u can let me know what you did wrong so I won't do the same thing please.
Jesus Max Hernandez No, not too much weight. Obviously not 5 lbs, but some weight that I could do sets of 8-12 reps. The problem is not the weight, as Jeff also points out. It's the position you put yourself in - it's very awkward and unnatural. Remember, doing weird and stupid things doesn't result in better outcome - trust me, I did that and it didn't work! And I have to live the rest of my life with the outcome. Hard work and consistency is the key.
@@fardadja sorry bro
No leg extentions is a little bit of a shocker. One of my favorites...
ObsessiveFanBoy before my knee injury no. Not once. Post injury I was never very comfortable with it. Now I may know why...
+RollinsOwensMizAmbroseGirl I HATE leg extensions. Make my knees feel weird and pop and hurt
+RollinsOwensMizAmbroseGirl
Of all the recommendations, dropping leg extensions had the least technical rational. No matter what, the quadricep places a torque around the knee. The hamstring can counter that torque, but net-net, the hamstring can't generate the same net forces that the quad can. The real problem with the LE isn't the basics of the movement, but the torque profile. At 90 degrees or less, there is a risk of that the tendons can move out of place. The maximum torque starts at about 110 degrees and as the leg extends to 180 degrees risks of any injury are small.
The best LE machines have cams that apply little torque at 90 degrees, build to a max and then drop to a lower torque at 180 degrees. Most gym goers are not savvy enough to understand the differences among machines.
Michael R. Zboray thank you that was very informative. Some people (e.g. me) don't go to very fancy gyms so they don't have the ability to choose which machine is better.
+Michael R. Zboray i have been taught to do them that way also... as you don't really need the full range of motion for it to be an effective exercise. ( since its an isolation exercise)
I’m not sure how you got any thumbs down. This information is so beneficial and makes so much sense! No more leg extensions or DB flies for me!!! 🎉
This guy is a liar
I can’t stop doing flys, I’ll disappoint Arnold!
Arnold does not give a fuck about you
Arnold doesn't care.
Lol the two dudes who replied to this comment should hangout so their brain cells aren’t so lonely
Why do these 2 guys gotta be assholes?dude was just making a silly comment
it doesnt need to stretch to tear so he didnt contradict himself smart guy
is it just me or does this guy look like a really muscle version of Ross from friends
bruh
Looooool
Kinda sounds like him too
+Neon _ Toaster Love it! :)
or Lewandowski
upright rows.... I fu...ed my right shoulder on this exercise.... 15 years ago and today still bearing the consequences...
wish someone made me aware of the dangers then
ultra1116 same and ive came across people who still defend the exercise
Whats the problem in doing it?
None, keep doing it. In fact, put the max amount of weight in it and do it all the time :) 100% good results
Ive gotten to the point where I barely train my shoulders because training them is such a risk of injury and you use them in so many other movements that arent for focusing on them, that i feel the need to train them is just not there. Military press, lateral cable extensions, and v-bar press are the only direct shoulder workouts i do, as well as occasional shrugs but shrugs are also terrible for your shoulders.
You saved me from injury, thank you.
I wish I'd known quite how bad leg extensions were years ago. My legs are pretty strong so I could move a lot of weight doing extensions, but I ended up messing up my patellar tendon (the one under the kneecap) gradually over time, without really noticing. In the end I had to give up playing soccer because of it, which I really regret.
wow
+artgart garargarg im doing extensioms simce a month. any replacement tips?
Damn sorry about that
+artgart garargarg you can't play soccer for like the rest of your life?
+Danny Saldana - No idea, but the pain got worse and worse when I played, and it took longer and longer to go away. I am able to run again without having sore tendons afterwards, and I've incorporated squats into my routine (far from my max weight, though), and so far things are going well, but everything stills feels somewhat fragile, and it's been 2 years since I quit playing soccer. It's all the twisting and kicking that makes soccer hard on the knees, too.
I used Jeff's videos to rehab my shoulder in lockdown. Been watching him to improve form and avoid injury since.
Step 1: mute the video at 3:30
Step 2: imagine he's devotedly explaining fisting to the audience
Step 3: ???
Step 4: profit?
That is so awesome
Oh, God. I did and laughed for like 2 minutes. Tears....
you're welcome :)
made my day
lmao
That behind the shoulder press NEVER felt natural to me. Now l know why. Thanks man.
You lack shoulder mobility, the exercise is fine.
@@XxMVPxDawg 😂😂😂😂
@@tomasdvoracek649 ?
yeah, i dislocated my shoulder first time trying it, and i had some pretty strong shoulders at the time 🥴
@@alinaveed1793 Strong is not the same as mobile
Thanks for the upload..I didn't warm up on a flyes excersise,and caused inmingement on 1 shoulder..the weakest one..4 years ago...still gives me problems now..so,I know what you mean man!
Yes,a typo error..well done..That should ease my pain..Thank you!
Good to see this video. Several years ago I had a frozen shoulder and the physical therapist showed me which exercises I needed to drop from my program. I now work out smart--and safe. Thanks for sharing.
I've been doing 4/5 of those moves. Shit.
+TheLeninistPlaysGames all except good mornings, right?
The Man Yep.
+The Man same over here hehehe
***** Yeah. The video kinda makes sense but then again its just some random guy on the internet.
+TheLeninistPlaysGames 2/5 here.
Been following Jeff for the past few years...most dedicated and caring teacher out there. Appreciate everything, keep striving everyone!! You got this
He is so spot on. All these exercises messed me up in the past.
So I shouldn't do dumbbell flies due to the potentiality that "one bad rep and you're gonna have a bad time"? Come on.. It's a perfectly decent exercise. I'd agree that cable pulls are preferable, particularly those swanky 3D crossovers, but if you're at a crappy gym with no cables, or at home using a bench, it doesn't get much better than dumbell flies for targeting the pecs, particularly when you adjust the gradient of your bench between reps.
if you have a bench, why not do a regular benchpress?
xLuye cant contract your pecs as well
Surely if the pecs are not contracting well during a bench press one is not bringing the bar low enough?
xLuye A regular bench press is a different action to the squeezing sensation of doing flies and you need to do both types of exercise to get rounded and defined pecs. If I could only choose one, I'd actually go for the flies. The results are great. I think brahs just like the word bench - "how much can you BENCH, brahh" etc etc
Thom Harrison I can certainly see where you are coming from. But it really is an excellent exercise with good and proper form. Unfortunately a lot of "brahhs" will just focus on "How much?" rather than "Can you benchpress?", completely ignoring the full range of movement, shoulder posture and tightening of the back etc. Personally, I just started with the barbell itself, adding a little weight every session. Really don't need a great load of weight to know you are activating a broad range of muscles.
Flies might not be as terrible for starting out, but seems like it will be difficult to maintain good form as you progress due to the momentum caused by distance to the core.
Darn. I've done all these exercises. Thanks for letting me know I've been putting myself at risk.
Brad Steeg me too is hard getting in shape
Bruh, I’m creeped out. I literally did all these workouts today and this popped up on my recommendations.
TH-cam gods are trying to save your body
Be thankful
Thanks for such an informative video. Neither my traumatologist nor physical therapist took 10 minutes to explain to me why my shoulder is fucked up in this level of detail. I am literally fixing my own back and shoulders with your videos.
One bad rep could end a career, words to live by.
Amen to that. With my multiple sublexes on either shoulder, I can barely throw a tennis ball with much force, let alone do multiple reps of controlled overhead presses. The thought alone deters me from even trying them.
Potter tons Hang in there, I recently had rotator cuff surgery. Shortly after the mere thought of military press was painful. 7 weeks post op and the only thing holding me back is common sense. I'm still soar but feel I could easily lift half of what I use too.
In the mean time, work your core, do some cardio try some creative pursuits...anything to keep you from dwelling on your temporary limitations.
Wish you the best with recovery.
Thanks. I'm an absolute novice when it comes to weight training, so the
fact that AX touches on alternatives for safe lifting, I may look into purchasing the routine.
It’s so good to see someone actually explaining the biological reasons why an exercise works or not, shows that this guy does his research and knows his stuff! Kudos for that!
As a healthcare professional I can tell you nobody can touch this guy’s videos. If you are into training with weights, this dude covers it all. At 46 it’s important I know the anatomy and physiology behind the movements as I have seen way too many meat head friends injured in a way that affects their training indefinitely. Thank you for sharing your expertise Athleanx!!
If Robert Lewandowski and Di Maria had a baby, this is what it would lool like...
Would love to see a video on correcting posterior pelvic tilt!
+Tommy Gordon aaaaaahhsaha
i believe "alan thrall" has a video about anterior/posterior pelvic tilt, very well made!
I love it Teacher Jeff! I'm studying to be a physical therapist (Thanks in part to you) and I'm also a personal trainer. I love your videos, especially the scientific ones. This makes me think back to my anatomy and physiology class that I took at the University. Don't be afraid to get scientific, instead share some knowledge, explain, and teach! Awesome job. Keep these videos coming!
Having had two shoulder surgeries on one shoulder, and nearly two years of physical therapy I've become rather educated on shoulders, and this guy is spot on. Shoulder is the most complex joint in our body and so many popular exercises cause significant and dangerous stress on it. I'd take this dudes advice!..my shoulder injury was a result of military service in Afghanistan and not from workout mistakes, but now that it has been compromised, I make a big effort to train smart.
Two surgeries for me I have no problems doing low cable upright rows but behind the neck press definitely hurts my shoulder
Thank you x 2
Its not the movements that fuck you up. People are doing these movements and further facilitating the imbalances that they already have. These movements exist for a reason. Look at CT Fletcher, Mike Rashid, Bulo....they all use them (specifically behind the neck presses) and those guys are amazingly strong and huge
It works for them... They are the lucky one's. You ll see ppl practice playing ball they're whole life. But won't ever be in the NBA or come close to being Jordan Kobe Magic Larry none of them. Ppl smoke cigarette s their whole life and never have prob yet you get some ppl who smoke for a month yes a month and get lung cancer. Just cause it doesn't happen to a few don't mean it can't happen to you.
I get what your saying but thats not my point. Here's an example, say someone is doing front squats and they're doing them perfectly. The next guy starts doing them and has problems with it. So is it the movement that is wrong? No. It's the person who has imbalances and weaknesses that make it difficult. Another example is when someone is doing behind the neck presses and they feel no pain (besides soreness). When the next guy comes along and has problems, it's because he already has something wrong, it isn't the movement's fault. The person injuries are just further facilitating the injuries. Sorry the long ass post hahaha
Sorry, at the end i meant that the movements are just further facilitating the persons injuries
No brother I see what your saying it was that long lol. But yup I agree then!!
strongMMAn well said bro! to further add to that it is also form of "the next guy who comes along" that further favours an injury.
This guy looks like a jacked Jeremy Jahns
Dude for real!!!
lmao thats awesome, i never noticed that before!!
+Victor Caoyonan Lol...love it
Jimmy Johns?
Freaky Fast
I've always got results from chest fly
I Know! Im confused now. After each day i feel it, 2 weeks later, I get bigger pecks. Expert needed....
Man i've been working out for 16 years already and only recently started to watch all those youtube videos. So far "they" told me that bench press sucks, flies sucks, pretty much all standard exercises for shoulders and back sucks etc. And substitute is some kind of crossfit bullshit or a machine, at least they mention dumbells from time to time. This guy is right in a way that a lot of those exercises could lead to injuries. what he is not telling you is that you have to have right technique to do them, carefully select weights and change exercises on let's say monthly or two months basis. For instance quad strech you shouldn't move your knee further your foot the angle always have to be 90 degrees as add on you can band your knees for more "protection". When doing the fly bend your elbows like hugging a ball sort of and you will be fine. Although i do agree that "good mornings" as he calls it, bullshit. I'm not trying to be an expert here just sharing what i know.
He's not saying it won't give results, he's saying it can cause injuries.
wayoflife bro Ah, now i got it. Thanks
wayoflife bro
Everything can cause injuries if you don't know how to do it, also the exercises he just show.
And I did chest fly's today...
Me too
Bye bye chest fly i hated them anyway. Does this also mean the machine chest fly? Cause i actually like them.
same lol
@@redbeardevildead3459 the machine chest fly is fine because its controlled for you and you can only go back so far, DB flys are a no no because of what Jeff said, can tear your pecs and put yourself out of action for a serious amount of time.
@@harrylewin3180 I think if you wanna do DB chest flys, you better do it on the floor. Because the floor itself will restrict your elbow from going to far deep.
For the chest flies, would it make a difference if you did them with bent arms rather than outstretched arms?
John Hurley Athlean-x, please answer this guys question. It is the best I have seen so far. Thanks John
George Ogolo I figure it would reduce the load on your shoulders and force your chest to do more work, but I don't know that for sure.
Thanks. Will give it a try.
John Hurley Was going to mention this too. When I started doing fly's, I watched a clip of Dorian Yates doing the exercise as it should be. Agree with the behind the neck shoulder press though.
John Hurley I do them with bent arms (like a bench press) if the load is heavy. If the weight is light enough, I keep the arms outstretched. A hammer grip works well for me too when I want to work the inner chest.
I started lifting over 25 years ago. Do what gives you the biggest pump (blood flow), feels great, and doesn't hurt. No bodies are built the same. What may feel great to your buddy may not to you. Lot's of options.
Never had problems with dumb flys. Just don't go real heavy or to far out. Listen to your body, it will say "when." Most chest tears are done using a whole lot of weight, wrestling, or fighting. When to much adrenaline overrides the bodies true ability. Got mine in a fight.
Would recommend doing barbell presses in front. I used to do them behind, liked them, got strong at it, but as I got older, it just felt a bit more natural in front. I mostly choose dumbbell overhead press because straight down with no bar to dodge works best for ME.
I did dumbbell upright rows at the end my shoulder workout recently. My body wanted it and it's not that much different than a side lateral raise. The guy in the video might just like these. Never did like barbell uprights, they just didn't feel good.
Leg extensions are great during or after squats or leg press ( lunges are painful to MY knees). Did these last night. I like to start off doing one at at time, then double as blood pumps them. I do toes facing face, then toes pointed out to really feel that pump/burn. I'd highly recommend using good commercial equipment for this exercise and not a version (with no adjustments) demonstrated in this video.
Never liked barbell good mornings. A safe low back hyperextension is done on a commercial lying leg curl machine. My low back gets hit with seated cable rows and/or barbell rows.
In my opinion, you're the best channel to subscribe to when it comes to fitness. You know what you're talking about and glad I found your channel.
So basically every exercise my high school gym teacher had us do. No wonder I can barely get out of bed in the morning.
And the best part is if you'd refused, you'd have probably been reprimanded...
@@theyetti90 look up John Taylor gattos books.
@@TrevorHamberger why? "Sell" me on it.
@@theyetti90 the school system is designed from the top down to replicate a prison. It's entire purpose is to stifle innovative thinking.
if you want the reality of the school system in under 3 hours here you go.
th-cam.com/video/MgNXpvxsqa0/w-d-xo.html
@@TrevorHamberger without watching this I decided to homeschool my kids when I was 17, in 2007. For some reason I was thinking this was going to have something to do with exercise, because of the initial comment, and video.
I heard leg presses are bad too. The position itself puts pressure on your spinal discs and the added hundreds of pounds just spells trouble.
Anyone who has had an intense condition like shoulder impingement/tendonitis would understand exactly what this guy is saying. I do not believe in all the high protein bullshit, but I certainly know from a Masters in Exercise Science and many years instructing patients at the physical therapy clinic that these flye movements are just asking for trouble. This video was spot on for the exercises he said to avoid.
strongly disagree on a couple of these. chest fly's the most, but upright rows I do a bit different; that's for traps not shoulders though.chest flys stretch the muscles that do the primary pressing movement; not directly the pecs, but it does effect the workout significantly in a positive regard.
"that do"- I mean "that contribute"
traps versus shoulders on upright row, depends on how wide/narrow your grip is.
I disagree to. Specially because flys are one, if not the only workout that doesnt engage triceps.
Traps are your shoulders don't get that twisted - your 'shoulder girdle' technically includes everything between the distal head of the humerus to the sterno-clavicular joint. Anyway, this video is good and he usually has good advice.
Ryan Atkins people often distinguish traps as upper back; and yes, the traps help elevate the scapula, but now he's just plain wrong about upright rows hurting your traps.
the video was put together well and had good audio and whatnot, but to tell people chest flys and upright rows are unsafe and shouldn't be done? from experience I'd confidently say that's poor advice
I have had four personal trainers in the past. Back when i had money. I don't now but this guy has better qualifications than any of the people that trained me and people get hurt in the gym so of course you want to exercise not just safe but the safest way. I think this guy is excellent.
What happened to the money?
holy shit? hes wearing a t-shirt?
Arnie did flys and he was coming day and night....I mean it's terrific.....right?
Joe Davola Best comment all year.
+Joe Davola LOL Pumping Iron baby!
+Joe Davola Nicely appended..!!!
+Joe Davola "I could be cumming here or cumming there i could cum anywhere" :D .. oh or back stage or some shit, lol
+Joe Davola Arnie also did roids
Wow! These are all classic exercises. I wish I saw this video when I started lifting back when I was 15 or 16. Would have saved me a lot of wasted time. They all feel awkward and strain the joints more than the muscle.
Title: stop doing these exercises
Me: don’t worry i haven’t started
Lol omw canning myself
Ha. I like how you arrogantly said, "What are we doing here? Chest flies, or Coracobrachialis flies?" and then you proceeded to tell us how one bad rep can cause a pec tear. I'm sorry, but was that a contradiction? I see your point on how you can get injured from these exercises, but it's the idiots that don't know their own limitations and/or body well enough to complete the exercises correctly. Also, if "Chest flies" don't actually work your chest, then chest fly machines wouldn't exist. A seated chest fly machine does the exact same thing as flat bench dumbbell flies do, with the exception of you needing to have more control and balance, and the extra gravitational pull on the dumbbells. BTW I didn't make this comment to bash on you.. Much love brotha!
***** Haha, don't consider it a bash. Happy to explain. I never said chest flies DON'T WORK THE CHEST, I said they don't provide the extra stretch on the chest that those performing them claim they do. The coracobrachialis absorbs the extended range of motion of the fly NOT the pec. That said, due to the increased length of the lever when the arms are extended, combined with the load of the dumbbell, the entire shoulder girdle can reach its "breaking point" and therefore leave the pec major extremely vulnerable to injury.
I agree with some of this. My left shoulder dislocates now. Probably because I've done these exercises and damaged the joint.
Paul Dunstan hey man, i have shoulder issues too. I really suggest doing rotator cuff exercises with elastic bands. It fucking saved me.
I just changed the exercise. I'm 42
Paul Dunstan HAAHH JIJ BENT ZEKER VAN IKEA KAST XXL MATEN HE?!
I don't like the behind the neck lat pulldown. Just doesn't look right.
Yep. Pretty much proven in all studies that it does absolutely zero for the lats. Could lead to a good neck or spinal injury though
Doesnt feel right either
+Chris B. For sure, every time I do them I feel like I am going to dislocate my shoulder.
+Mohit Garg I do lat pulldowns and feel it in my upper back area - traps & rear shoulders. I do them carefully and with manageable weight, 12-15 reps, and see no reason why it would injure me, and muscles definitely ARE being engaged in order to pull the weight downward, so it's doing something.
x2. Same here. They ARE Very Unnatural and Very strainfull to the rear delt area. Also,i could see where one could be in danger of injuring themself by hitting that big lumpy bone area that is right between the upper back and the back of the neck.
I always though chest flies were good, but i never had good chest development. Today i was curious and after few benchpresses i did the exercise with the cabelcross and my chest is destroyed now. Had sick workout even better than benchpress. you actually hit the upper and lower peck with same prinicp but different direction of the arm. Very well said Jeff, will change my workout totaly. Time to build huge chest
Me: Goes to the gym.
Jeff: Going to the gym is killing your gains.
😭😭😭💯💯🤣🤣🤣 for real everything is bad according to him
OMG... I wish I would have seen this video when I was a teenager, but there was no Internet then. Your are SO right about the #1. Worse Exercise you mentioned, FLYES. I ruined both of my shoulder joints by doing them, and at the age of 65, I can hardly put on my shirt. Keep up the good work, Athlean-X.
Ego lifting=injuries. Thats the reason why folks get hurt!
at least their ego got some gains. Injury Gains
I mean, it's kinda hard not to be ego lifting with progressive overload
Hi Tony how about if we call it short cut lifters instead of EGO
.... i do 4 out of 5 of these on a daily bases... guess i need to go through here and find some new workouts 😂
I feel your pain, literally. I gotta find some new moves.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Legend 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿
If you go through this channel you wont be doing any exercises.
@@JayK108 lol
@@JayK108 You forgot face pulls
I used to do all of these back in the day and I now have bad shoulders. I stay away from these exercises now but the damage is done and I deal with pain on the regular.
Everyone has their opinion even ones that like to over think things ... my opinion is that the dumbell fly is an amazing exercise if done correctly. I wouldn't recommend it for somebody who is not familiar with weight lifting (but would recoomend machine flys) as it could be an exercise that could injure easily. All BS aside ... dumbbell flys will never be buried being that all of us who have a built chest know its a key factor in building a great shaped chest. You do have some good points in my opinion but not all are accurate. I think people should look at who is giving advice before they think just cause somebody is over thinking things making themselves sound so technical .. that its true.
I agree, I've been doing them for sometime now and definitely see the results. Although I must admit after watching Buff Dudes I found that I wasn't doing them properly.
The only problem with the dumbbell flys is how the weight reduces from your pecs as your arms go up, at the top of the lift the weight is pressing down into your arms and not pressing on your pecs. With a machine the tension is on your pecs for the whole lift.
Stevie Russell I dont see why that is a problem really but more just the difference between the two above mentioned ways of doing flys. Your correct with what your saying but as far as it being a problem, I dont see it. I actually find it benificial that the weight load on the pecs increases the more you go into the fly position with dumbbells when your trying shape your pecs and build mass/strength to the outer pecs.
C Hammer Well I like to be able to really squeeze my pecs at the top of each rep and with dumbbells I just don't get that same squeeze as I do with a machine :P To each his own.
Stevie Russell I guess the only thing Im getting out of what your saying is that you do only machine flys for pectoral development? The reason I say that is because dumbell/machine flys are only a couple of several exercises needed to build a competitive chest. If your looking to go into the gym and get things done fast (which I dont reoccomend if your looking for results) then machine flys would be great for that. Dumbell flys are affective but like building any other muscle group need to be used in combination with other exercises. TBH with you I do both.. Dumbbell flys heavy and later machine flys with higher reps less weight. Your always going to use secondary muscles when resistance training and some exercise may isolate a little more then others but it does not mean to burry the exercise as this video is saying only because there is possibility for injury. Proper form is what is key for any exercise to be affective and if its not done, the exercise is not affective and injury is a very high risk of course. Bottom line.. Bodybuilding isnt limited to ONLY isolated exercises.. Thats why bodybuilding is not easy because it takes experience and time to figure out ones own body. Dumbbell flys are just as much of a tool for pectoral development as machine flys.. Its just up to the person themself as to whether they want to build a non balanced shape versus a balanced shape by utilizing multiple exercises.
What can I do instead of leg extensions? They seem to be working but I don't want to get an injury.
GermanyTechno same. They are my favorite leg exercise
Squats, leg press, lunges
Squat & progress in it. Thats it😉
GermanyTechno front squats if you want serious quad development
back squat, pistol squat, front squat, lunges, goblet squat
These videos do a good job of making me want to get a personal trainer
Be careful. Because someone has some certification doesn't mean they know this stuff.
Steven Ferguson Totally agree bro...
If you want a personal trainer I recommend jeff (athlean-x).. you only need someone to tell you what to do.. why you need to do it.. and why its beneficial... totally worth the money if you have it
JoshRimer Why do u even need a trainer when u've internet & u understand English :)
Jeff is your personal trainer!
THANK YOU! Excellent info, I'm 72 year old male and been vegan for 8 years now. I work out with free weights about 5 hours per week. I have really benefited from your expertise especially this graveyard video. I supplement the free weights work with a Total Gym routine on days when I don't use free weights. Any comments? Thanks so much. All the best Anthony
What your workout in a week look like
I left the dumbbel fly 1 year back after i felt pain over my anterior shoulder.
I have a suggestion about the *making of your videos*. It would be really helpful, though I don't know how expensive it would be, but it would be really helpful if you could incorporate an x-ray image or picture out to the side _and_ have that image highlight itself when you say one of the muscle groups you're trying to explain. That would also apply to the skeletal groups, if it needs to be said.
Again I know nothing of expense in this regard, but I believe it would be infinitely helpful as far as your audience understanding the significance of what you are putting out.
Interesting. I've always beat myself up about not doing all these exercises because they caused me discomfort. Really thought I was missing out. Now I feel better. I also can't do tricep kickbacks. If I use meaningful weight, hurts my shoulder
Depending on weight, you can do a bent-over kickback with a barbell. Apparently, your long head's the only muscle that moves your arms back from the shoulder past your torso. It depends on your shape to not hit your butt though. You might be limited to the little set weight barbells, if you're in a gym. With an >300 lb. bench, the olympic bar alone was heavy for reps.
Endoptic same for me about the arm kicks
I'm glad I'm finding this information early in weightlifting journey
I cut my left index finger off by doing Flys laying down on the bench. someone left 35s on the floor, and I dropped my 45s down and caught my finger in between and severed everything off from behind the nail!
Morgan Freeman I don't think you should be lifting weights at your age
You're one of my favorite actors...but I don't give a flying fuck about your careless behavior in the gym. Pay attention at all times!
Morgan Freeman I'd love to HEAR you say that.
Morgan Freeman for real?
This happened to me too, I my finger got caught in between the dumbbell on the floor and the one i was holding and my finger like exploded. The tissue in my finger was coming out the bottom and lots of blood
the up right row is where i think i damaged my shoulder back in winter of this year.All those exercises I stop doing years ago when i started doing them they were painful very painful especially the upright and flys(which I was already working out with an injury pushing thru it). Those Chinese Guys on TH-cam 6 pack abs fanatics reccomend the flys for the chest while you are the 2nd one who rejected its use of the fly. I still see guys doing and I see no one I mean none doing good mornings any more. Good Video I can see you are in NY working with the Mets .
I always see girls in my gym doing good mornings lol
+Suzanne Taylor They GoodMornings have its place as hinge joint movement or lower back but they are obsolete in my workout book might as well do the sit down back extension surprisingly good for lower back movement and not time consuming at all.
+Suzanne Taylor lol true
I’ve been doing many of these that you’ve listed. No surprise I’ve had to go to physical therapy for 2 different body parts in 2 years! 🙄🙄
Thank you so much, this was useful! 💕
12K thumbs down....? Free positive advise that will have you training ( injury free ) the rest of your training life. I started in ‘79, I wish I had a ‘free Jeff’ coaching me safely...... thank you Jeff, I have been following your advise for 8 years after finding your site ..... brilliant advise!
arnold said flys, so its true
Well not everyone has the joints and muscles like Arnold ...
haha, I was going to say the exact same thing, Arnold swears by the fly one of his essentials for a big chest!!
+Armin Gutjahr Well, what about doing the flys while not lying on a narrow bench, but on a wide one, or simply on the floor, so there is no realistic way of tearing anyting? Your arms/elbows will simply stop when they reach the floor, no way to get hurt.
you need the tears for the expansion, which is why Arnie loved them...
+Armin Gutjahr When did he say that? 20 years ago? Yeah, body mechanics knowledge has come a long way since then.
Damn leg extension was one of my favorite exercise to do. Now I know what It can do in the long run. Thank you
leg extensions worked really well for me. It was all I did when I first started. Then I got a squat rack.
@@planetdog1641
Having a strong foundational knowledge of anatomy and body mechanics > your opinion because you've been doing an exercise and it hasn't injured you yet.
Don't wait until you're injured to stop.
I've always felt suspect about leg extensions for the exact reasons you mentioned
Sir Gio hi it’s possible to be a personal trainer for me ? Will follow your TRAING at home ?
Your level of understanding and knowledge on these variations are impressive.Your clearly a great physical therapist.Thanks for the insight
Leg extensions are fine it should be used for low weight high rep
Depends how strong you are.
Sure - let me trust you over a guy with his masters in PT.
i had an issue in leg extension, lunges, step ups. gains found in these exercises, but i took rest like for 2 months coz of my knee pain
Valid point he makes re working the hell out of the rectus femoris without any work done by the VMO. That'll have your patella underside scraping in no time.
+mustafa ali yeah i got issues with that work out too, my right leg has issues with straightening at times and it really strains it
As a past dancer, it's really easy to tell when an exercise will hurt you because it looks like a position you'd never be in for a performance. It's like an intuitive thing; if it looks wrong to me, its probably not good for my body.
Well darn ,Rachel i need to call you for a physic reading real soon !😁😁
What kind of dancer? I was a breakdancer; I specialized in positions you don't want to be in.
Go and tell Arnold that flies is a bad exercise.
Ikr Arnold loved it
+Niki Dimitrov guess he realized it when his breast was a huge hematoma?
Fantastic advice Jeff. I’m 53 yo and lift 5 out of 7 days. I’ve made these changes you suggest and can already feel the reduction in shoulder soreness and I’ve put on more lean muscle! Thanks mate.
Great advice, articulate guy! Maybe talk about the better exercises a little longer as these were brushed over quickly. Thanks for the tips!
Pretty sure I damaged my chest doing Chest Fly... I wish I had seen this video before that...
I messed up my wrist by doing the upright row
Use light weight and long smooth strokes, no need to do them fast like ive seen some people do.....
Upright rows mess up my wrists too, especially with a straight bar
@@stephensmith6230
Bad exercises are just bad no matter how you do them.
Having a strong foundational knowledge of anatomy and body mechanics > your opinion because you've been doing an exercise and it hasn't injured you yet.
Do DB High Pull at 5:50 instead, keep your wrists higher than the elbows.
I have had problems and injuries from all those exercises. This guy is for real..listen to him.