Hello, this is an excellent talk. I have a few suggestions: 1. When going through novellas, instead of just reading out loud and risk the students losing track, explain the difficult words in simple Latin. Never break out of Latin, thus the high words per minute ratio will be maintained. Also it will remain comprehensible. 2. Record the novella as an audiobook so the students can listen over and over, shadow and try to internalise the vocab. 3. Look up the listening-reading method. In this way, you can read and listen to material way above your level. You just have to find suitable audio! Use as many senses to ensure comprehensibility and vocab retention. Silent reading in class is a waste of precious class time. Use class time for communication and things that can’t be done at home…slowly but surely, your student will get to a level where they can free read original texts.
This is some good advice, and I'd like to experiment a lot with how to use novellas in class. I would absolutely agree with giving students audiobooks of the material they're reading so they can listen to it over and over at normal speaking speed to really internalise the patterns of the language. I would disagree about sustained silent reading being a waste of class time. Granted, students who are motivated and responsible could do this at home instead of at school (if they have access to the books at home: the Latin novellas I have are class library sets, and too few copies of them are available for me to lend them out to students to take home). But the students who are weak and/or undisciplined tend not to do their homework (which might not be their fault - they could have an unsettled family situation, no quiet place to study at home, an attention disorder, or just plain hormones, that makes it very difficult for them to stay on top of homework, especially reading), but those weaker students would definitely benefit from sustained silent reading in class. Also, when students are reading silently, they can all pick different books according to their interests and language levels, so they are more likely to be reading material that engages them and is best suited to their language needs. But yes, I'm definitely up for trying lots of different methods that help students to process as much of the target language as they can, and with joy!
Your videos are so helpful to someone like me, who has slogged through the Grammar Translation Method for the last three years. You’re going to help so many Latin students now and in the future. Keep going!
@@FoundinAntiquity Seconded! This would be very useful as a self-taught student. I am overwhelmed by the number of options and underwhelmed by some of the uninformed novella choices I have made.
This year I had my students work on grammar charts for two months... and they could not read at the end of it. I found that they absorb grammar and vocabulary much better when it is taught tacitly, but you are right... making the stuff to teach them this grammar tacitly is extremely exhausting. I am not sure I can keep this up myself. I had two and a half years to teach my students the present system and so I had a pretty high success rate, but now I only get 2-3 months to get them through the perfect system, which in my opinion is not enough time. I am not sure how I am supposed to accomplish any of this realistically and am considering moving a lot slower at the expense of "correct" pacing.
Yes, it can be a lot of work to create lots of appropriately difficult material for students to absorb Latin from. I'm hoping the videos on my channel will help make it easier for a lot of teachers to add more comprehensible input in their programs, whatever grammar sequence they are following. I think that it is good if students get early exposure to past and even future tenses for some common verbs like "est", "habeo", etc. even if they don't yet learn the full system of those tenses, because it readies their minds to accept that tenses exist and they'll get to meet them for other verbs. Spending so many years in just the present system... come to think of it, my students would have also spent about 2.5 years trapped in the present system when we're working through the Oxford Latin Course, if it weren't for my making input materials with unsheltered tenses. I feel like the perfect & imperfect tense are a big difficulty spike when they're suddenly introduced, but half the difficulty of introducing the perfect is getting used to recognising the new stems for every verb, and that would have been so much easier to absorb if they were just gradually introduced alongside present verbs as you went along.
I’m a firm believer in no translations from and to english and no grammar lessons. I believe with the right input your brain will “build the chip” for processing and understanding. Plus content like yours is so much quicker. grammar lessons at the upper level once you know a ton I think in the target language would be a ton better than early on. I don’t know much of anything tho lol
I can vouch that watching videos in the target language is very useful. I learned a TON of Latin and how to express myself by watching Magister Craft videos and through speaking with my teacher and class mates in Latin.
I am by no means an expert, but I'd say using many-word videos in conjunction with translation tasks that include a similar set of vocabulary might be even better, because lots of learners (me included) struggle harder with recall than recognition.
Don't be too hard on yourself, it is completely normal to have better recognition than recall. And I've got no problem with mixing up the tasks so that there's a variety and interest. But from a language acquisition perspective, it would be the sheer amount of comprehensible input that drives language acquisition, not what you produce in either L1 or L2. The acquisition of new vocab isn't instantaneous - it's kind of like every time you see the vocab item and understand it, you gain about 5% of the progress towards acquiring the vocab word. Between first recognising it and having seen it dozens of times over, you'll be able to recognise the word but not recall it. As this is going on, you're encountering more and more new words (hence more words are easily recognised than recalled). Flashcard memorisation and rereading can help the process by adding more repetitions but I don't think translation would speed the acquisition.
What Latin novellas would you recommend? Which ones are your favourite? (This question goes both for the owner of the channel, but also whoever reads this)
Salvē magistra, thanks for the video. I was curious about something, I'm learning latin on my own (I'm autodidact polyglot) and when I learn languages I like to do a lot of input that is above my level on my mindless tasks. For example I listen to Legio XIII, Litterae Christianae and Philologia Perennis while cooking/washing the dishes. This means at least 1 hour per day of exposure to the language, and I think it's nourishing even if I don't understand much. Because eventually, plus my other studies (like sitting and reading novellas or watching your latin videos), I will acquire the language. I don't know if I'm explain myself, this is how polyglots like Steve Kaufman with approaches of massive immersion learn. Sorry for the long text, my question was, would it be possible to make your students willingly do this kind of thing? To take the study of latin on their own and have both autodidactics drives and your help as a magistra?
Salve! I think reading and listening to material above your level is wonderful, if you aren't feeling stressed out by not understanding everything. Being comfortable with ambiguity and not getting everything yet is a great attitude to have towards language learning. I think it can be tricky to get students to do this, because some are so scared of failure and not getting everything, but we want to move out of that and be OK with not knowing everything. I think providing a playlist of listenings at different levels would be great, encouraging students to self select things to listen to while doing mindless chores.
How long do you have students read at a time doing free reading? Is there a max.? Do you gradually increase the time? Does the time depend on their level in the language? Their age?
It depends on whether you are building implicit knowledge or explicit knowledge (&reception or production). If you want explicit knowledge, then yes, reading closely and taking notes, active quizzing with practice questions etc. really drive it in. But with retention of implicit knowledge, mass exposure to meaningful language gradually seeps into your long term memory. It may not be easy to retrieve in that form unless you practice retrieval (productive skills need to be trained for productive skills sake). But mass exposure contributes to fluency in receptive skills.
But the retention may be different when reading, no? Even if you hear more words while listening, spending more time with a text may lead to higher retention rate for the vocabulary.
From my experience, my students struggle to remember Latin words they have translated in stories, because as soon as they transfer it into English they stop looking at the Latin word. They forget that word by the time it comes up again a few sentences later. Also there is less capacity for meaningful repetition in a slow translation task than in a spoken context. By contrast, when I show them a minecraft video and ask students "quid vidisti in hac pellicula" they can easily recall all of the vocabulary that was important to the story. I think spoken words, if they can be instantly understood and repeated multiple times through several sentences, have greater sticking power.
mēnse Iūniō, ad meliōrēs modōs mē vertere coepī. itaque trēs mēnsēs alterā disciplīnā ūtor. nōn est facile modōs vertere, sed magnō ūsuī est. longum est iter prae mē, sed iūcundum quoque!
My kids ate up the Minecraft Latin videos. We need more! 😁
Hello, this is an excellent talk. I have a few suggestions:
1. When going through novellas, instead of just reading out loud and risk the students losing track, explain the difficult words in simple Latin. Never break out of Latin, thus the high words per minute ratio will be maintained. Also it will remain comprehensible.
2. Record the novella as an audiobook so the students can listen over and over, shadow and try to internalise the vocab.
3. Look up the listening-reading method. In this way, you can read and listen to material way above your level. You just have to find suitable audio!
Use as many senses to ensure comprehensibility and vocab retention. Silent reading in class is a waste of precious class time. Use class time for communication and things that can’t be done at home…slowly but surely, your student will get to a level where they can free read original texts.
This is some good advice, and I'd like to experiment a lot with how to use novellas in class. I would absolutely agree with giving students audiobooks of the material they're reading so they can listen to it over and over at normal speaking speed to really internalise the patterns of the language.
I would disagree about sustained silent reading being a waste of class time. Granted, students who are motivated and responsible could do this at home instead of at school (if they have access to the books at home: the Latin novellas I have are class library sets, and too few copies of them are available for me to lend them out to students to take home). But the students who are weak and/or undisciplined tend not to do their homework (which might not be their fault - they could have an unsettled family situation, no quiet place to study at home, an attention disorder, or just plain hormones, that makes it very difficult for them to stay on top of homework, especially reading), but those weaker students would definitely benefit from sustained silent reading in class. Also, when students are reading silently, they can all pick different books according to their interests and language levels, so they are more likely to be reading material that engages them and is best suited to their language needs.
But yes, I'm definitely up for trying lots of different methods that help students to process as much of the target language as they can, and with joy!
@@FoundinAntiquity yes, please more audio of written texts!
Your videos are so helpful to someone like me, who has slogged through the Grammar Translation Method for the last three years. You’re going to help so many Latin students now and in the future. Keep going!
Thank you! I'm glad these videos are helping you and others get a better learning experience in Latin!
I started buying a few Latin Novellas about a month ago. They really helped out a lot
It's great to hear that you've been getting good use out of these Latin novellas!
Maybe you could do a vid on the different Latin novellas out there?
I'd be very happy to do that!
@@FoundinAntiquity Seconded! This would be very useful as a self-taught student. I am overwhelmed by the number of options and underwhelmed by some of the uninformed novella choices I have made.
@@joshuastubbs18 yes, and not inexpensive either for someone way down there on the pay scale.
@@bunty2046 Yes, and they seem to vary greatly in quality.
@@ailblentyn and when you are first staring out, you don't necessarily know what would work best for you.
Cloelia is available as PDF (cc-by-nc or something similar) so you can definitely circulate that :)
Ooh nice!
This year I had my students work on grammar charts for two months... and they could not read at the end of it. I found that they absorb grammar and vocabulary much better when it is taught tacitly, but you are right... making the stuff to teach them this grammar tacitly is extremely exhausting. I am not sure I can keep this up myself. I had two and a half years to teach my students the present system and so I had a pretty high success rate, but now I only get 2-3 months to get them through the perfect system, which in my opinion is not enough time. I am not sure how I am supposed to accomplish any of this realistically and am considering moving a lot slower at the expense of "correct" pacing.
Yes, it can be a lot of work to create lots of appropriately difficult material for students to absorb Latin from. I'm hoping the videos on my channel will help make it easier for a lot of teachers to add more comprehensible input in their programs, whatever grammar sequence they are following. I think that it is good if students get early exposure to past and even future tenses for some common verbs like "est", "habeo", etc. even if they don't yet learn the full system of those tenses, because it readies their minds to accept that tenses exist and they'll get to meet them for other verbs. Spending so many years in just the present system... come to think of it, my students would have also spent about 2.5 years trapped in the present system when we're working through the Oxford Latin Course, if it weren't for my making input materials with unsheltered tenses. I feel like the perfect & imperfect tense are a big difficulty spike when they're suddenly introduced, but half the difficulty of introducing the perfect is getting used to recognising the new stems for every verb, and that would have been so much easier to absorb if they were just gradually introduced alongside present verbs as you went along.
@@FoundinAntiquity Your videos are quite brilliant, and with your permission, I would love to use them in my own classroom.
I’m a firm believer in no translations from and to english and no grammar lessons. I believe with the right input your brain will “build the chip” for processing and understanding. Plus content like yours is so much quicker. grammar lessons at the upper level once you know a ton I think in the target language would be a ton better than early on. I don’t know much of anything tho lol
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the super thanks!
I can vouch that watching videos in the target language is very useful. I learned a TON of Latin and how to express myself by watching Magister Craft videos and through speaking with my teacher and class mates in Latin.
I am by no means an expert, but I'd say using many-word videos in conjunction with translation tasks that include a similar set of vocabulary might be even better, because lots of learners (me included) struggle harder with recall than recognition.
Don't be too hard on yourself, it is completely normal to have better recognition than recall. And I've got no problem with mixing up the tasks so that there's a variety and interest. But from a language acquisition perspective, it would be the sheer amount of comprehensible input that drives language acquisition, not what you produce in either L1 or L2. The acquisition of new vocab isn't instantaneous - it's kind of like every time you see the vocab item and understand it, you gain about 5% of the progress towards acquiring the vocab word. Between first recognising it and having seen it dozens of times over, you'll be able to recognise the word but not recall it. As this is going on, you're encountering more and more new words (hence more words are easily recognised than recalled). Flashcard memorisation and rereading can help the process by adding more repetitions but I don't think translation would speed the acquisition.
I so understand this! Recall and usage. But slog on I say! ;-)
@@FoundinAntiquity Yes! Thank you. Over and over and over again! ;-)
What Latin novellas would you recommend? Which ones are your favourite? (This question goes both for the owner of the channel, but also whoever reads this)
i love the teacher vibes: “this one takes forever to make” 😂🤟🏼
Salve magistra et gratias
Salvē magistra, thanks for the video. I was curious about something, I'm learning latin on my own (I'm autodidact polyglot) and when I learn languages I like to do a lot of input that is above my level on my mindless tasks. For example I listen to Legio XIII, Litterae Christianae and Philologia Perennis while cooking/washing the dishes. This means at least 1 hour per day of exposure to the language, and I think it's nourishing even if I don't understand much. Because eventually, plus my other studies (like sitting and reading novellas or watching your latin videos), I will acquire the language. I don't know if I'm explain myself, this is how polyglots like Steve Kaufman with approaches of massive immersion learn.
Sorry for the long text, my question was, would it be possible to make your students willingly do this kind of thing? To take the study of latin on their own and have both autodidactics drives and your help as a magistra?
Salve! I think reading and listening to material above your level is wonderful, if you aren't feeling stressed out by not understanding everything. Being comfortable with ambiguity and not getting everything yet is a great attitude to have towards language learning. I think it can be tricky to get students to do this, because some are so scared of failure and not getting everything, but we want to move out of that and be OK with not knowing everything. I think providing a playlist of listenings at different levels would be great, encouraging students to self select things to listen to while doing mindless chores.
How long do you have students read at a time doing free reading? Is there a max.? Do you gradually increase the time? Does the time depend on their level in the language? Their age?
Can you point me where to find those novelas?
Here's the best organised and most comprehensive list: docs.google.com/document/d/1bF8hZuxTDtgNMSSdonEX112JJaVYqoPH7w27Oju9ETs/edit?usp=drivesdk
I hear you. But what about retention? I can read a calculus book at 60 wpm, but won't know much calculus. Isn't intensive study needed for retention?
It depends on whether you are building implicit knowledge or explicit knowledge (&reception or production). If you want explicit knowledge, then yes, reading closely and taking notes, active quizzing with practice questions etc. really drive it in. But with retention of implicit knowledge, mass exposure to meaningful language gradually seeps into your long term memory. It may not be easy to retrieve in that form unless you practice retrieval (productive skills need to be trained for productive skills sake). But mass exposure contributes to fluency in receptive skills.
But the retention may be different when reading, no? Even if you hear more words while listening, spending more time with a text may lead to higher retention rate for the vocabulary.
From my experience, my students struggle to remember Latin words they have translated in stories, because as soon as they transfer it into English they stop looking at the Latin word. They forget that word by the time it comes up again a few sentences later. Also there is less capacity for meaningful repetition in a slow translation task than in a spoken context. By contrast, when I show them a minecraft video and ask students "quid vidisti in hac pellicula" they can easily recall all of the vocabulary that was important to the story. I think spoken words, if they can be instantly understood and repeated multiple times through several sentences, have greater sticking power.
@@FoundinAntiquity Thanks for answering, perhaps you're right.
Grâtiâs quod tâlês êdis pelliculâs. Ôlim, dîxstî, illâ pejôre methodô docêbâs: quam diû nunc disciplînâ alterâ meliôreque hâc ûsa es?
mēnse Iūniō, ad meliōrēs modōs mē vertere coepī. itaque trēs mēnsēs alterā disciplīnā ūtor. nōn est facile modōs vertere, sed magnō ūsuī est. longum est iter prae mē, sed iūcundum quoque!
Babae, vêrê nûper. Quid acciderat? Quô modô sententiam dê methodîs mûtâstî?