Class 50 - The Love/Hate Locomotive
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2022
- Good morning! :D
In today's video, we cast our eye over the Class 50, a staple of the British Railway scene for over half a century and now a much loved part of the preservation scene. However, all was not well for the 50s, as despite their lightweight but powerful design, the locomotives were initially maligned upon their arrival on the Western Region, before being plagued by reliability faults during their latter years.
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References:
- Fifty Years of Class 50s by Kevin Derrick (and his respective sources)
- Class 50 by Colin J. Marsden (and his respective sources)
- Wikipedia (and its respective references) - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
How fitting that 50 Class 50s were made.
Imagine if they were made In the 1950s
@@heidirabenau51150 class 50’s made in the 1960’s
They missed the 1950s😭
Was "one of the most formidable locomotive classes" a deliberate pun? They were also valiant, illustrious and indomitable
Explain the pun
Implacable and Defiant lol
@@datguymiller 50038 was called Formidable
@@julianbailey2749 only to the "Eagle" eyed observers ....that was Superb if i do say so myself lol..
@@datguymiller All the locos were eventually named after Royal Navy warship, 'Formidable' being one of them - that's the pun.
Im lucky enough to have driven several of these locos on the main line out of Waterloo in the late 1980s. Probably my favourite diesel locomotives
I remember seeing the 'Hoovers' thundering through Surbiton on the Down fast line back in the early 90's!!
One of the best sounding locos.
i saw a class 50 at a heritage railway. it was numbered 50042 and its name was Triumph.
That Class 50 beast had a monster inside. An English Electric 16CSVT 246 Litres, so just under 16 Litres per cylinder. 2,700 BHP @ 900 RPM. I always sat as close to the Class 50 as possible, just to listen to that exhaust note. At 100 MPH, it sounded as if the V16 was just ticking over. The 12 Cylinder version in the Class 37 equally sounded wonderful.
The throaty rumble of a diesel engine revving up. Music to my ears 😀
I lived near the Waterloo - Exeter line and used to go down to the 3 arch bridge near the closed Milborne Port station to see the 50’s run past. Later moved into Sherborne when the HST sets were running
Opening up with a shot from the Newton Abbot of my youth made me smile, took me back 40 or so years!
The old footage of the Class 40 was shot on the ECML south of Helpston with the camera running in the ex-MR line to Stamford and Leicester. You see a brief glimpse ov the long gone MR station at Helpston.
The emblematic "Hoover", I love that thunderous sound that it emits!
Beautiful hoovers they shouldn’t have scrapped a single one of them in an ideal world 👍🏻
Great video on the Hoovers.. Having rode behind several of the Severn Valley's 50's, I can understand why they have such a cult following. Storming up Eardington Bank behind Ark Royal was an unforgettable experience, makes me wish I could've seen the class in their heyday. A pair of them storming up Shap and Beattock must've been a sight to behold! I think it's safe to say that we don't make 'em like this anymore!
I stormed up Sole Street Bank in Kent on a rail tour behind 34 and 35 and that was truly awesome!
I loved servicing the 50's back in 84-85 as I was Waterloo's lampsman who also got lumbered with restocking the guards, drivers and train stores on the Wessex line trains (lazy gits in stores outranked me so I had to do their job as well) and its pretty ironic that I now live alongside that very same line here in Gillingham sadly the 50's long gone and replaced with hideous 159's and local requests for anything even a Pacer than those horrid joyless soulless tubes of despair that ply the route today. I have toyed with starting a petition to see if we can get some of the displaced HST's on the line, gotta be better than those crappy 159's anyday lol
One thing that always makes me smile with the Class 50, is that there is almost a face on it. Between the lamps and what I assume is a foothole, it looks like it has a D: expression, like it's mildly panicked about where it's going. Possibly a form of genetic PTSD from the DP2??
I always thought that too.
It’s one of the things I love, and the wires look like a monocle so it’s as if a posh face is looking disgusted
It’s one of the things I love, and the wires look like a monocle so it’s as if a posh face is looking disgusted
It’s one of the things I love, and the wires look like a monocle so it’s as if a posh face is looking disgusted
It’s one of the things I love, and the wires look like a monocle so it’s as if a posh face is looking disgusted
Remember Crewe Stn. in the early-mid seventies, and Class 50's took over from the electric 86's to continue up to Scotland?
Er....
I think you mean the mid 60s
Unless you were going to Ireland via Holyhead
No, @user...it was 1974 when the 25kv overhead lines between Weaver Junction-Glasgow Cent. was switched on, with the diesel Class 50's ending up either (as you say) between Euston and Holyhead..but mostly ending up the Paddington-Penzance/Waterloo-Exeter routes...and (to correct myself), it was the 86's and shiny new Class 87's - which took over from the Hoovers - not the other way round.
I remember the Lima HO-gauge class 50 my dad got me for Christmas when I was a kiddie :)
Another great video and, yes, the Class 50 does deserve some more love. It is probably the only British Rail locomotive class to have made a cameo appearance as a track on a Top Ten album: Supertramp's _Crime of the Century_ (1974). The Class 50 is sampled at the beginning of _Rudy_ - which follows _Dreamer_ on Side Two.
I’m a steam guy but even I have a soft spot for a large logo class 50. Very classy in my opinion.
Great video mate and very informative.
Cheers,
Ross.
Horses for courses - these machines were superb on the WCML from Crewe, and from Liverpool/Manchester. Regulars were D425/6/7/8 working in pairs.
The Western region was disappointed in the decision to drop the hydraulics, but the performance of most was decidedly "iffy" with only the Beyer-Peacock type regularly running well. The Class 50 replacements were better overall.
Not only did the Beyer-Peacock Hymeks run well, they had one of the smartest bodywork designs of the diesel locos at that time- very attractive. I used to see them at Cardiff, but I do not remember any 50s there, only Westerns and Peaks when the services were fully dieselised.
I used to see these at Maidenhead in the late 70s early 80s. Watching one dragging a dead HST trying to keep to an HST schedule was an awesome sight and sound experience.
The class 50, being based in the North East was one loco I didn't get to see in service. Ironically, now living on the paddington to reading line, where they ran on back in the 80s and 90s I would have seen them regular if I had lived here then, my only sight of one was at Tinsley depot open day, one day in the 90s
Got to love a Hoover. 3 booked to run at SVR 2022 Autumn Diesel Gala. 50007 Hercules, 50033 Glorious and 50035 Ark Royal.
I absolutely adore the archive footage.
Would love to see a video on the 'tractors' (class 37s) as they're still in regular use today!
Also I'd love a look at the various rolling stock that's been used on the Edinburgh & Glasgow railway (mentioned in this video) as there has been a fair bit of variety over the years
I was a fitter for BR back in the 80s and liked this class of loco ! If driven and respected by a driver they were very good but sadly too many drivers would ignore the guidance on slow throttle closure from high power settings causing main generator flash over damage that plagued this class from the start . Nice nostalgic trip .
Should have been an alternator from day one.
@@gregrudd6983 agreed. Being built with an outdated generator did them no favours
@@nikkihicks5693 From what I gather BR wanted a better GE universal series than a GE universal series but always failed. Much like the BR 60's where they wanted a better Dash-8 than a Dash 8 using bespoke parts and expecting it to give better reliability than a SD40-2 where BR pays less for the whole fleet than what EMD paid for R&D on the 710-12 prime mover itself.
I must have driven all of them as a secondman in the seventies. Great to drive, even in vacuum, but utterly filthy inside. But you’re right, it was always depressing how a lot of the old steam men used to slam locos around.
One of my favourite diesel's
Too bad I don't live in the UK but one day I can visit to see this big machine's
They did sound great! Happy I saw them in service in the 1979-1988 period when I was in London.
Some interesting shots there. Lovely opening shot of Conqueror storming out of Newton Abbot
Thank you. Do you know what that church (?) wall is at 0:14 ?
I can’t see it on Google Earth; may not even be there any more.
@@camberweller I think that was part of the original works of the South Devon Railway (before it became part of the GWR)
@@AndreiTupolev - Thank you, much obliged. Looks pretty churchy, but a lot of Victorian architecture did. Take care.
Vulcan Village, where the Foundry was, is about 2 miles from my home. Sadly it is long gone, in it's place are a number of bland houses, and an Aldi store. This is what they call progress......🤕🤕🤕
Some of the best diesels ever made, these.
I worked as a Shunter at Penzance for over 10 years, 1977 to 88 and these class 50 Locos would regularly cover 1000 miles in 24 hours. Pz to Padd, Padd to Swansea, Swansea to Oxford, Oxford to Padd, Padd to Pz. Very few failures in those days.
Remember the good old days.. Kids don't know how bad they have it now vs then. It was just more peaceful people got along better and were generally happier than they are now. Penzance must have been empty back then no?
@@davidt8087 Hello David, it was busy in Summer months, then when the school holidays were over things started to get back to normal. Summer Saturdays were extremely busy on the Railway, Penzance being a Terminus, every train had to be tailed to release the Loco and the stock taken out for washing and cleaning. Early turn had 24 up and down trains.
@@exb.r.buckeyeman845 did you work on Penzance - st Ives line or Penzance - st Austell or Penzance - Bristol?
@@davidt8087 Hello again David, as a Shunter I only occasionally went Main Line if there was a failure, so I went as far as Truro to assist a failure, coupling up and shunting the coach or Loco into a siding or yard. When I transferred to Bristol Bath Rd as a Guard, I worked trains to Severn Beach, Cardiff, Birmingham, Portsmouth Harbour, Paddington, Plymouth, and Bridgewater, and all local stations in between. I enjoyed it all. Cheers Chris.
@@exb.r.buckeyeman845 nice. BTW I live in California not even from UK 😅. But I'm familiar with those lines.
I used to live right next to the West of England Main line in the mid 80's in the village of Templecombe. When I moved in I was regularly woken in the early hours by a class 50 loco hauling, I presume newspapers/mail. It took a few weeks but I got used to this and eventually was not disturbed by them. I always enjoyed seeing the locos and am so pleased that so many have been preserved and are also being operated for reward on the main line. It is amazing how many class 37s, 47s etc are still in regular use. I now live in Cardiff and see class 08s being used at Celsa Steelworks alongside modern day 66s from GBRf.
Had some great runs behind them in pairs on the WCML north of Preston in the early 70s.
Pre-electrification of the WCML north of Weaver Junction, my many journeys from GLC were Class 50 hauled. It was always a pleasure to have them up front. On the occasions when they were single-headed, there was always the frisson of 'will it manage?' I really liked the Class 50s on the GLC-EUS services, but the electric effect of wiring the route surpassed even that!
I'm grateful so many have been preserved, including the first and last. That sort of thing just doesn't happen all that much, so it brings me joy.
One of my favourite locomotives! I am lucky enough to have seen these in use back in the late 80s as my Dad used to take me to Hayes & Harlington railway station to watch them. I still have the photos and videos he took. I also saw them close up at Old Oak Common depot, and have numerous photographs of me standing next to various different 50s.
Hoovers! Always pleasurable being hauled by 50s in my late 70s early 80s commute out and into Paddington.
Same here, except in my case it was Sheffield - Exeter.
Nice clip of class 47 through barnetby!
Great video Sir. I remember the HOOVER'S going between London Waterloo and EXETER when i was working at Surbiton lovely. The noise when they came through the station was earth shattering the whole of Surrey must have heard them coming . The English Electric diesel engines reminded me of the DELTICS ,pure class. Excellent video featuring PROPER B R PASSENGER TRAINS. 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
The class 50 is not one of my favourite classes of locomotives. Thank you for sharing the history of them with us.
Excellent commentary and archive film/video.
I grew up in South Wales, so 50s were a thing I saw only if I ventured across the Severn to Bristol. Then in the late 80s I studied in Portsmouth, and there was a daily service to/from the west country which was hauled by a 50. One time, I sacrificed my guaranteed compartment seat on the Class 33-hauled '89' to Cardiff to get the 50-hauled train to Salisbury. Great locomotives.
I loved the 50s... the first and only class I ever saw all members of... Reading Station, 1980ish...
Thanks for adding sound at the end.
Thanks very much for an informative programme.
Beauty of the past. Good video dear.
The naming of the Class 50s followed a change in BR policy in October 1977. This reversed the previously policy agreed in 1964. Initially whole classes were to be named on a theme, hence the Class 50s all getting Warship names. However this soon was relaxed and other classes received names across a range of different subjects.
50.009 sounding beautiful at the beginning set the bar for a very entertaining video. I once set off from Leeds to Waterloo to chase them. Upon getting to the right platform I saw my intended train being whistled off, so I jumped on without seeing what loco was on it. Turned out that instead of a 50 my train was headed by 47 841! Gutted.
As much as I like to hear a class 50 running I can imagine the hate from enthusiasts when they replaced the Westerns.
The Westerns were as powerful, did look way better and sounded better imo.
When I have the choice on a diesel gala to get class 50 or Western traction I will go for the last option.
But if the choice is between a 47 or a 50 it's the 50 for sure, the unique nature of the sound of the V16 sounding like 4 separate 4 cylinder engines is what makes it stand out.
although on paper the westerns were as powerful as the 50s, in reality the 50s far exceeded them in terms of power put to the track and performence in general, they had a much greater equivalent drawbar horsepower, in fact when Clough & Beckett ran an experiment with a few locos to test their equivalent drawbar horsepowers the 50 came out on top and the western came dead last. the hydraulic transmission simply cant put nearly as much power to the track as the equivalent electric transmission, made even worse when said hydraulic transmisions gear ratios dont entirely match the torque curve of the locomotives engine, which was the case with the westerns and is why they often struggled to exceed 85 in service while the 50s would easily do 100 with 8 coaches in tow. not to say the westerns were bad, they were a damned sight more reliable than the 50s in their early years and they were still great locos overall, withdrawn far too soon due to standardisation and nothing more, but the 50s certainly trumped them when it came to power put to the track.
@@Trainman10715 And the Westerns were never fitted with electric train heating, so the advent of air con stock resulted in them being replaced by either 47s or 50s for that reason (as well as others) in the 1970s.
@@Trainman10715 Refne/OSE/NSWGR ALCO DL50O's were more effective than the Westerns when it came to on rail performance.
Im personally the opposite. Taking a 50 over a western anyday. Just been on the honeybourne hoover. Thing was thrashing all the way
Westerns are overrated 50s are a lot better looking
Great video, I too have a softspot for the 50s, in my spotting days they were the only class I managed to clear and it was always exciting when I saw one arrive
Many thanks Ruairidh for yet another superb video. Surprised to hear that these fine engines were hated by Western Region enthusiasts! The roar of the 50s could be heard from our house in Plymouth when they departed from the station, and that was 2 miles away! Mind you… so grateful that 7 Westerns have survived into preservation, I was too young to remember or appreciate that wonderful throaty dual V12-Maybach sound…. and the fantastic exhaust. Both classes are fine machines - to those who keep them alive, I salute you!
Loved these. Got full haulage on them in the late 80s on regular trips back and forth from Axminster. The sound was just such a trip.. always tried to get front coach just so I could pop the window and enjoy it whining when it pulled away.
Very lucky to have seen all of them. with nameplates. and travelled on one or two.
Many years ago I worked at alderley edge in Cheshire and on a Sunday we used to get double headed class 50s on diversion and when they went through the station at full speed the hole station would shake they used to sound fantastic flying through
Very nice video.
Actually the portuguse 1800 class are slightly younger, being delivered in 1969. The engines were acquired to be used on the 'Beira Alta' line, wich is quite demanding due to its hilly nature, and being used in every type of service, from heavy freights to the all important Sud Express (with this train, in the early 1970s, the 1800s went regularly to Salamanca, due to a somehow momentaneous Renfe power shortage). After 1979, with the arrival of more powerfull units, the EEs went South, with their new home being the renowned Barreiro depot. Again, they were used in every type of train, with the added feature of Communter service. But their 140 Km/h top speed was put into good use with a 'Rapido' service from Barreiro to Faro between 1982 and 1988. The units ended their operational life in the freight sector. Aa for preserved unit 1805, sadly is not ooerarional, due to main generator problems.
Another fun fact: Following the transfer to the Western Region in the past, they did give rise to one or two problems with signalling on the WR, to do with inadequate signal spacing in some places. This crawled out of the woodwork because the class 50s really were capable of running at 100 mph, whereas nothing else could. The Westerns were rated at 90, and the 47s at 95, but the transmission on the 50s were more efficient at the top end and quite capable of achieving their maximum.
As a result of this, there were some parts of the Main Line that had lower speed limits (temporarily) of 90 to overcome that for a while. Not relevant to 253 sets, though - it was a problem with class 50 hauled stock only, so there were some sections of 125/90 on account of that issue. I did a fair bit of paperwork (it really was paper in those days!) on that matter in the early 1980s for the WR.
The ultimate soulless "box on wheels". No amount of livery or naming changes that basic fact. Boring .. ..
And yet the strange thing was that when the W.R. wanted to do some 100 mph running to test for dipped rail joints a Deltic was borrowed for the tests even though the W.R. had the full fleet of 50s.
I had a memorable run with a class 50 of 37 minutes for the 47 miles from Waterloo to Basingstoke reaching a top speed of 116 MPH on the 16:38 from Waterloo to Exeter, the only train of the day not stopping at Woking.
Great vlog as always! I can smell the stuffed diesel air at Paddington or Waterloo. Keep up the good work!
Though I am sure the flat front cab offers better visibility making it safer, I think it is a shame from the aesthetics point of view that they went away from the stepped cab.
My feelings too. I don't hate the Class 50s but their boxy design just looks less interesting. Makes Class 47s seem aesthetically appealing.
I’ve heard the early long bonnets were because bosses were worried that ex-steam drivers would find it disconcerting if there wasn’t any loco in front of them while they were driving
@@cakeskin3333 If you look at early US diesel electric, they also used a stepped cab and then went to the side cabs, which makes sense as far as seeing your cars during switching and hooking but also much less attractive.
The Deltic body is pretty, but I think the angular design of the Class 50 looks a lot more modern, and it still holds up today.
@@joeydutch7178 because hooligans thought breaking the curved glass was a hoot.SMH
Great informative video! Really enjoyed it.
Nice video; had to smile at the old British Rail 'twin arrows' We always said BR didn't know if they were coming-or going...
Another great presentation, many thanks for creating it.
Excellent video.
Your documentaries are a pinnacle of quality, love every one of them. Keep up with this good work!
Great video Rory.
Love your videos so well spoken and put together thank you for uploading.
Wonderful bits of kit, those. I used to see them wizz by my school towards Exeter when I was a kid. I was 12 when they did their last run and remember going up to Waterloo to see them off.
Another excellent video! 👏🙂
The sound on the opening shot is music to my ears!
Another well researched and fascinating documentary. Looking forward to the next.
Fantastic video. Great footage and highly informative. This has made me hit ‘subscribe’.
'Hoovers' as most spotters called them!
Love these vids man. Incredible.
Absolutely the best freight locomotive that EE built.... for BR to use as a passenger loco.
How could you say they’re love hate? You just have to hear one storming through the severn valley, and the charm of that clattering engine hits you immediately!
They sound like tractors. But then all diesels do, except Deltics.
Or one or two thrashing up The Lickey at full revs so much so you can hear them from well over a mile away.
Because for some they replaced much beloved diesel hydraulics. So no matter how good they were they'd be hated. It was the sa e when the 1st Generation DMUs came into service.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 i see, the hydraulics were very lovable locos, but since the last one was withdrawn some 40 years before i was born of course i don’t remember them in service. i have seen D1052 and D821 along the SVR and i love them both for their similar yet unique engine sound
Most excellent as always, my friend. I hated them at first, with their droopy fronts weighed down by those massive headcode boxes. I quickly grew to love their sound and performance as I travelled behind them between Waterloo and Basingstoke, Andover and Yeovil. If only they'd all looked like Sir Edward and hauled maroon stock instead of that dreadful NSE livery.
is it just me or do british diesel trains just look better than American ones?
(just my opinion)
Nope, you’re right, all the american locos look bland and boring besides the old 1930-50s EMD E/F series
@@bennickss yea , i agree with the EMD Part. Plus , My Favorite Diesels are the 21 , 37 , 44 & The 55 Deltic.
That's a question.
Yes.
@@bennickss Agree, older diesel design were much more diverse, easy to tell apart and sometime a beauty. High hood, low hood, standard hood, streamlined shapes and others. Wide cab variant are okay but now they are kinda boring to look at now.
I love this Locomotives Class and Names of British Warships
That was awesome, great info filling in many blanks, many thanks. I remember seeing Benbow breaking down on Reading station, these and the Deltics were the only classes I cleared, I remember how happy I was to finally see Indomitable roll into Reading, seems like yesterday.
I started a bit late for the Deltics, but I cleared the 50s too, and had a fair bit of haulage behind them too
A very good in depth history of the Class 50, its dawned on me that they were such a late addition to the BR fleet, they never got tte green livery. Always loved the sound of that English Electric power plant. Very interesting video.
50044 Exeter was painted in a 'what if' two tone green several years back with the reporting code box reinstated. It actually looked really good!
@@citizenerased1992 I didn't know that.... I looked it up, same as the 47 livery. I think if the BR green had still been going in the late 60s that's exactly what it would have looked Iike ....small yellow warning panel and two tone green. I like those what of scenarios.
Brilliant thanks it was seeing these amazing beasts in the 80s that got me into trains and model railways. 👍
Undoubtedly my favourite BR diesels!
Ah, a new video! A good morning it has truly become! 👍🏻
Thanks for a very informative video. I've worked for British Rail twice, including Tyseley tmd and Birmingham New Street as a shunter, but out of times for a 50. So I've never had my hands on one. I remember them on the Paddington Birmingham services, and they always drew a clutch of spotters. I much prefer steam myself, but also glad to see so many diesels preserved, and out on main line too. I remember steam as an every day occurrence, and the testing of some of the early diesels, Kestrel, Falcon, and of course the Blue Pullman, all of which would make equally interesting subjects. Thanks again 👍👍👍
There is no love/hate relationship! I love them along with the class 37.
50049 and 50007 along with 50050 are regularly seen on the mainline since then
Love the blokes working without possession in the wires.
EE has a great stable of favourites. The 37 always sounded the best despite its power disadvantage, but the 50 is much nicer than whistlers.
Also, maybe the next new build after the baby deltic could be dp2 !
Great loco, one of my favourites. Was great to see them racing through Clapham Junction. I was fortunate enough to ride behind all of them.
Nice video. It would have been nice to have a bit more sound of the class during the video and not just at the end but hey ho.
Picky, picky bit :- Saying debris like the Americans and saying "haitch" instead of "aitch". Something that seems to be fashionable at the moment even though it's wrong.
Very enjoyable video none-the-less.
01:20 For the ubernerds a rare glimpse of the unique 'negative' totems at Kensington Olympia.
'Superb' video!
Great locomotive.
How about a video just covering the Napier Deltic diesel. It has to be the most unique, different, complex and a mechanical marvel. Just imagine doing a ring job on all the pistons. Love the Royal Albert Bridge, Isambard Kingdom Brunel was really ahead of his time. Diesel was the next step for loco's, but nothing beats the sounds and looks of a steam locomotive. Great watch.......
Best sounding loco imo along with the class 68 and 73
Have you never heard a Western or a Deltic at full chat?? 🤗
@@12crepello nah but it's my dream yo see a deltic
@@carnivorousvegan69 Have a look at this just to whet your appetite. Not a Deltic but second best!
th-cam.com/video/5FDC0JFNqAI/w-d-xo.html
I remember standing on a Reading station platform in the late 70-ies looking at a class 50 headed down train a couple of tracks away. It made quite some noise, from what I see in this video it could very well have been a class 50. I was touring the UK on a 14 day Rover ticket which, bought in The Netherlands, was ridiculously cheap. Dutch diesels were some 800hp so a 2700hp class 50 hauling mainline trains made quite an impression.
I have mixed feeling about seeing 50 035 in that video. That along with 50 041 were the only 50's I never got to see in my train-spotting days at Ealing Broadway 🙁
Brilliant video
Just a constructive suggestion - if you took pauses between segments of dialogue you could add sound to allow the audience to hear to the locomotives, like you did at the end. There's something not quite right about watching these absolute units blast about in total silence.
All love for me. An expensive habit as a shareholder but one I cannot regret.
I must admit I hated them when they replaced the Westerns which have always been a favourite of mine, but I hated the HST,s as well when they took over work that used to be Class 50 hauled, but now I'd love to see all three classes hauling passenger express,s instead of what we got now, might be progress but I don't have to like it 👍
and people will probably feel the same when the Azuma's and Pendolinos get replaced from the expresses.
And my old dad hated the Westerns when they replaced his beloved Castles…
Always had a soft spot for the Hoovers which I learned to love on the GW mainline in Cornwall in the 80’s. I lived the large logo livery and was right miffed when they painted them in NSE
@@robinforrest7680 I like the modern stock. I go for comfort and speed. It's exciting to see the old stuff get torched, a real feeling of progress and recycling.
@@PreservationEnthusiast troll
@@robinforrest7680 So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll?
You like old stock, I like new. It's just an opinion.
Fantastic