KC-135 Tanker Mito/Cell Takeoff
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2012
- This clip has something special. We do not often launch multiple tankers at one time. Usually, this Minimum Interval Takeoff (MITO) has twelve(12) second spacing, unless restricted by weather. It is called a cell formation once joined in flight. You can gather, we are #4 in the 5 Ship Tanker Cell.
KC-135 Tanker Cell Takeoff [Cued]
KC-135 Tanker Cell Departure Rejoin [ • KC-135 Tanker Cell Dep... ]
If you enjoyed this clip, see the Playlist USAF KC-135 Stratotanker Flying Clips on my channel at: / anthonyburleson - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The old A model tanker. Those J-57s were dirty engines. Hard to believe water made those engine so smoky. I used to come home black with soot after working on those engines. But I miss that. I retired 23 years ago from the Air Force. My sons in the Air Force now. And the tankers have CFM-56 engines by GE. Can't get over how clean they are. I told those young fellows working on them that I used to work on tankers and B-52s when they burned coal. Your clip made me home sick for the Air Force.
I also worked on the "135" when they burned coal...the RC-135, Rivet Joint planes, ain't nothing like the smell off JP 5 early in the morning at 45 below...OF AFB '86
Doug Steenwyk those J-57’s, none the less, did the job. That takeoff data took us well down the runway, but never let us down. I was so happy to transition into the R-model with roughly twice the thrust. Miss those days. Thank you for your service.
artist92543 we had JP-4 back in the early ‘90’s; but it was a great job and career. Thank you for your service.
The J57s is what made these early aircraft so fascinating. Pure turbojet sound. With water injection it’s like they’re making coal dust!
Old timer here. Boom operator from 63 thru 78. About 6000 hrs. Stationed at Sheppard, Pease, Fairchild , Anderson and Pease. Answer a few questions: Black smoke was from "burning " water that was injected into the engines for take off. We carried, if my memory is right, 581 gals of distilled water. It gave us about 10% more power on T.O. It lasted for 2 minutes. So the black smoke was from using water injection. New engines/ no water. We pulled alert duty for a week at a time in an underground hotel. Ready to rush to our aircraft and take off asap in case of a war. If we taxied while on alert it was called a Cocao exercise. Sometimes up to 40 aircraft ( 135 s and B-52s would start engines and taxi out and simulate a take off. We used 15 seconds between aircraft. The plan was to beat the H-Bomb that could be inbound. Practice, practice. The deal bout the R model being faster than the A model.... we were carrying your fuel to off-load to you later. A might bit heavier. Many cool and neat stories in SAC. Last flying was against the SR-71. A very good life. Jim Ford
670 gals as I remember it Boom. Crew Chief 7980, but I was Security at the beginning of your duty (64-68). Walked them then fixed them, and you're right it was a great life.
i really hope you get this because there as never been 40 aircraft launched at one time what a jackas most bases dont have that many kc135s and b52s there
If your interested I’d love to hear more of your input on MITO operations
Those kc 135s were loud like thunder when I saw those things take off in person and seeing smoke coming out of those engines. I miss those sort of kc 135s. Nice video! I miss those thunderous sounds of the kc 135. That was my favorite sound to hear.
1970-1974 was an amazing time for seeing a variety of aircraft. My memory is fuzzy, but I seem to recall that we refueled either F84 or F86 during training as they were being phased out. Brought an F100 back from Thailand and those were still active in the Guard at that time. Saw lots of F4 and F105's in SEA. F15 didn't come into the inventory till after my discharge and C5 were being fitted for A/R but I never refueled one. At that time, one old Chief had been the end of WW2 (also had crewed B36) and a few guys from Korea service. Apparently, time marches on and the KC135 keeps on going! Thanks for the clips.
Thank you for the memory. In my day this was unheard of (video) I am antique 305ARW 1970s Vietnam era vet boom operator. Love this wish to keep forever thanx
Thanks for the memories! I was a Boom Operator 1970-1974. Lots of SAC alert time and 95 missions in SEA. I hope the new engines mean shorter takeoff roll.
Thank you for your comments and service Steve Cunningham. Although refreshing from the A to the R-model, it could still be loaded to the hilt in the desert, and require some long rolls.
6990th 1974-1975. Man this brings back memories, but never enjoyed the front-end view. Thank you for posting.
Miss those days!!! Was crew chief , loved them water take offs , thanks for posting sir .
From one Anthony to another - thanks for posting this. This brings back great memories! I was a KC-135A crew chief from 1987-1991 at Barksdale AFB, 2nd Bomb Wing. Served in Desert Storm on board 56-3627. There was nothing like being around one of those old J57s when they "burn" water. The earth would literally shake beneath your feet!
Thank you for your comments, and your service Anthony Molina. The mighty A-Model took care of myself; however I felt more secure in the
R-Model. Even the desert would task the -R fully loaded.
I was a GCA Controller at McConnell AFB, KS in '77-'79. The pilots my age know what PAR approaches are/ were and Wichita Mid-Continent Approach would hand the birds under radar control off to us for Precision and Instrument Approaches. All the aircraft going to the Boeing Military Aircraft Company for maintenance and upgrade also landed at McConnell so we saw a nice variety of KC's, EC's, and "other special varieties" plus B-52's and the Presidential birds. As those from this region know, summers can be hot and humid in the Midwest. Consequently, our heavily loaded tankers and any BUFF's had to pour the water to the engines and sometimes, the 12,000 ft 18R just didn't look quite long enough and during multiple launches the smoke would get pretty thick. For our viewing pleasure, we had the best seats in the house. When we were not "working traffic" we could step outside the GCA trailer or the "ready shack" and watch all acft take off, shoot approaches or "full stop". We were located in the smack dab middle of the airfield between 2 parallel N/S runways and crossing taxiways. If you have never stood midfield 100 feet from the edge of a runway during a MITO launch or when a flight of 4 F-105's departed, you have no idea of what you have missed! LOL! What a view! Those were great days! THANK YOU for this video and the rdo traffic, it's really nice to hear the coordination between the ships in the flight and the departure and center controllers. MEMORIES.
B52 G and KC 135A.
Those were the good old days. 12-second similar aircraft and 15 seconds dissimilar
THANKS for posting! KC135A Crew Chief 1980-2000 :)
I have so many of the KC-135's taking off and landing while in the Air Force, especially while stationed at U-tapao RTNB, Thailand during the Vietnam War. I remember the crew of one tanker coming in to land and everyone who was on the flightline who had a radio was on it to tell the tower that the landing gear in front was not down and the pilot pulled that airplane up so fast and went around several times, but could not get that gear down and landed the airplane so soft and kept the nose up until he was about to turn it and taxied it up close to the control tower. That was the best landing I had seen and still remember it.
I'm currently ATC and work the 916th's 135s daily. I'm interviewing in two weeks to fly them in AZ. Such a cool aircraft. Thank you for sharing your videos!
Did you ever interview with us?
thanx so much for sharing this video. and thanx so much for your service Anthony. i was an aviation machinist mate in the navy from 94 to 98 and ive always been amazed to see the 135a model take off with water injection.
I crewed on Q's at Beale from Dec 1968 to July 1970 . Numerous trips over the zone from Kadena on my TDY's. Nothing like watching a Blackbird pull up so we could pass gas.
Wow!!! What a sight to see. Thank you for your insight and service Pat Price.
BUFFs and flying gas stations. A thing of beauty.
old IN from 93AREFS at Castle also time with 916th AREFS at Travis. Many hours in Looking Glass. Noticed the difference when flying the -135E, our training bird at OFF
Tail number 514. Carried SIOP Sortie Number 415, PACCS Support.
I love finding videos like these. While modern military technology is no doubt mind blowing stuff and fascinating, I often feel nostalgic for the "old days" when many military aircraft were still powered by big, noisy, smokey turbojet engines. I was sad to see the B-52G models retired. Their J57s were much louder than the H model's TF-33s. I lived along a low level training route SAC used up until the early to mid 1990s and I often got see B-52s, B-1Bs and the occasional FB-111 pass overhead at 400 feet. They always made quite an impression on me. SAC was an amazing organization made up of even more amazing people. Thanks for posting this!
No by-pass on the J-57, just a straight through turbo jet.
I have watched this several times now. A great video. Shot in real time with all the comms, it is truly atmospheric. To me it talks to the sheer professionalism and calm execution of the mission task.
One of the best MITOs I have seen, as it is from crew perspective in the midst of the cell.
This will be on my playlist for a long time. Thank you so much for posting!
Thank you for your comments and compliments Anthony. An abundance of training was required, and when a launch unfolds, as briefed, gives one a high sense of pride and accomplishment. As to a MITO, we trained under SAC for a 12-second spacing of aircraft; and although at 35-second cell spacing, the takeoff was still challenging.
Wow, brings back memories! Flew out of Kadena many times in KC135q’s. Never had to do a MITO there, but we were normally two ship one minute spacing. At the school house at Castle, it was fun to train students in the a model at 12 second spacing and the r model at 15 second spacing. It was important training to ensure we could get our tankers off the ground in minimum time. I miss those days. Watching a squadron of planes takeoff during an ORI was to say the least impressive.
This is some cool stuff man! Thanks for the footage!
Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated, enjoy.
Thank you for posting sir!
I was a Boom Operator from 80-90. Got to fly a number of ORI/Buy None exercises after being on alpha alert when the exercises started. That meant we launched from the alert aircraft parking area, complete with klaxon, race to the aircraft, cart start, and scramble. I will treasure those experiences forever.
Steve L that certainly was the real deal training for EWO. It was an honor being integral with the defense of our nation. Thank you for your service.
Steve L and Anthony Burleson, thank you both for your service. I do remember those good old days of pulling alert and the klaxon going off. Those cart starts were something else - Minot, Mather, March, Carswell, and lastly at the Boeing Plant in Wichita converting A models to R models. Boom Operator forever. Dreamweaver, retired 1995.
Brings back lots of memories. A 35 sec mito was nothing. Try doing a 15 sec mito, that will increase the pucker factor. Plus it was windy so all the exhaust from the other planes was blown off the runway.
STEAM JET BABY!!! Remember the 15 sec Mitos in SAC.
Worked engine shop on the 135A and B-52G and H's. Loved it out on the line, running water when weather permitted, I remember being able to hear the water pump on the 135 engine (J57-P-59) spin up for just a second or two before the water injection made hearing anything tough. Those pneumatic pumps were dangerous, saw a few of them come apart, you didn't go near them when the engine went into water. Those J57's were so loud that the noise would go right through you, you could feel it. I miss it every day. If I could just stand next to one of those engines running in water just one more time.......that would be good.
As a C/C I do remember doing trim on those engine. Those day are long gone, much better engines today in all respects.
That's 670 gals of water, and Co-pilot don't slap them switches, hold them the required time please! Crew Chief 7980, 32nd ARW. Had a Co-pilot rob me of 100 on time TO's with zero write-ups on return because he slapped them switches. Got to take a second shower that day and needed it to cool off! Loved the "A"s. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
5.6 thousand lbs. in 120 sec........Capt. Mike......9th ARS Beale...71-80
I worked on 7980 while stationed at Grissom
Brewing A-model coffee takeoff!!!
The good old days...flew 4 years out Kadena AB with the 909 AREFS in “A” models. Did lots of MITOs in 80’s.
Thank you for your insight and service TheEagles427.
Outstanding...thanks. Spent 20 years on the KC-135A & R models....Griffiss, RAF Fairford, Wurtsmtith, and Malmstrom working Environmental Systems.
Awesome Robert! Thank you for your insight, and your service.
I really enjoyed the audio. You don't see many military videos with audio. Thank you so much
Thank you for your comments and compliments Gilbert Stonecipher.
My dad was an aircraft commander in 1957 on KC-135A, before that he flew B-29, KC-29, and KC-97. He said he passed a lot of gas…lol! Sure miss him.
I`m guessing the tanker behind you, bringing up the rear of the cell, started his roll between 4:50 and 4:55, and rotated around 5:45. If this had been a MITO exercise back then, the timing would have been alot closer; only about 15 seconds between the one ahead and behind.
Nicely done. It sure takes a lot of coordination and teamwork to get this many heavies in the air! (ret'd P-3C Nav, who went thru Mather AFB in 1984.)
Crewed 135a"s at castle, 67-68 - my bird---- Horney Toad 56-136 very early , she was used for filming the biminy bomb test.
I was in 7 yrs Minot-Ramey-Castle- U-Tapao great memories,wish I had stayed in. Thanks for posting.
Nice crosswind to clear out the smoke. NapoleonDynamiteLucky.jpg
Love from Türkiye.. a wunderfull starting
KC-135 boom operator 1980-1986. only 35 seconds spacing? back when, we used to do MITOs. (Minimum Interval Take Offs) nothing like 12 seconds spacing when you are number 12 of a gaggle. when i got in the KC-10's (1986-1999) we only had 1 minute spacing.
"Tanker Crew Chief"... Hey Bruh whassup! Last time I saw you was at TravisAFB while I was in Flight Engineer upgrade training.
@Randy Johnson - My goodness man, it’s been a long time, March AFB, 1986-closing. You, Rick Davis, Mike Yates, good group of guys. And yes, you are correct 12 second MITO’S are what I’m used to. I had the joy of my last assignment being at the Boeing plant doing the flight test after the conversion from A’s to R’s. What a thrill to takeoff with the new engines and avionics. I retired from the Boeing plant in 1995. Long live the KC-135; it paved the way for the KC-10 and KC-46, just as the KC-97 did for the KC-135. Being a Boom Operator will always be the best job in the Air Force.
KB4QAA - I was right behind you 7 years later. :-) Good times!
Not only was it a cell take off with numorous aircraft. It was a MITO (for the young people), minimum interval take off. Haven't seen less than a minute in over 15 years. Grissom AFB did and 18 ship MITO once. All of them with water. The last one lost water and had to abort. Should have seen the takers bouncing all over the sky in the jet wash. Wing CC let all of maintenance drive down the runway after that. Woo Hoo!
MITO and Cell are two different takeoff procedures.
Joe Bagadonuts you are spot on correct. This launch was scheduled for a true MITO; however, was down graded to a cell launch due to weather. Many comments were stating it was a MITO, so I just changed the title to satisfy all. I am also a stickler for details, but with this case, I give up trying to correct everyone. Thank you.
Big time memories...I was a SAC KC-135 nav. I recall 7 second MITO spacing in training at Castle, but maybe my memory fails me. It was the most exciting (and stressful) procedure. No room for any error or equipment problems...
Thank you for your comments Greg, and your service. We trained with 12 second spacing on the MITO in the early '90's. It was truly a big time stress operation, lol. The idea of strolling down the runway behind a huge cloud of Black smoke from multiple preceding tankers, within an aircraft loaded with 165,000-185,000 lbs of JP-4 fuel, was no joke. Although, it was a joy to emerge on the other side of the dark cloud upon departure, and then the sortie begins to come together safely.
Fond memories.
+Anthony Burleson was this an exercise similar to the cold war alert status, or was this different
+Derek Wall thank you for comments and question. This exercise was probably a similar one, and titled Cope Thunder in '91.
***** id thinking about running USA vs Russia style combat exercises because I heard about one occasion where a TU95H was flying uncomfortably close to our coastline. what if they decided to launch a nuclear tipped cruise missile at us? how would we respond?
I concur, made several mito takeoffs prior to 1973 and all were 7 seconds with a light fuel load.
Man, the acceleration seemed slow, even with water.
We were loaded to the gills for
Cope Thunder ‘91 Exercise; thank you for your service.
202,000 pounds of fuel in an aircraft weighing in at 105,000 empty.
@@robertheinkel6225 I hear ya, brother. I was at Ellsworth, 80 - 86, and saw a million (it seems) MITO take offs. Jet eng. mechanic. Never got to experience a wet take off myself though I was fortunate to fly on both 135's and , one B-52 ride.
Hero of the air
Hey Co, great video!
Thank you for your compliment Sunny Days.
Thanks, great
JP-4, 155/Wet, the red bull of a Early Morning 909th Sac Mito.. Nothing like it.. "Always there"
Thank you for your comments, and your service Ant Jones. I concur.
Mx officer on A/Qs and pilot of R/Ts - that takeoff roll…soooo long and with water that was unreliable…. 😳
Degradation of the fleet would make a five ship all but impossible today except at the largest wings. But damn sure everyone is up to date on their CRT/Trans training.
that's freedom punching a hole in the air---39.8 yrs in working those jets as a crew chief love water burners
S.A.C 1980 to 1990 crew chief 135,s all ten years at Castle.
I have seen thousands of operations and I never once turned my back on a takeoff or landing I don't think. Loved it and have never regretted it.
93rd Bomb Wing
693 O.M.S.Squadron
Tanker D flight.
We were the best there was in the world......
Thank you for your comments, and your service Andrew92. Personally, it was certainly a lifelong dream come true.
i was in boom school at Castle back in 1980 and was with the 924th AREFS there from 1984-1986. used to pull Anterior Alerts at Minot. probably flew on your aircraft.
I was the C/C of 56-136 at Castle 67/68, we called her HORNEY TOAD Then went to U-TAPAO Miss the old days. Thanks for the post
you cannot but that experiance
Holy F that's a lot of runway! Love those A models (not).
Great vids! I enjoy seeing SAC aircraft. Unfortunately I wasn't in the AF at that time, but my father was and he worked 135s at Pease, Plattsburgh, Carswell, and Altus. I am a young 1 Lt at Barksdale and I want to go the pilot route. I wouldn't mind flying the KC-135 at all! What units were you with?
I didn't recognize it as Kadena! I was stationed there with our Navy P-3 squadron.
So what was it like trying to catch the R with an A model? I was a Mildenhall back in the 80's, was amazed at the performance of the R's on take off verse the A's. Also any idea if you still can get the R's are bigger then your shirts?
Ellsworth AFB, 1980-1982. Back when the 28th BMW flew B-52H's and KC-135A's.
Thank you for your insight, and service Eagle 6; closed Wurthsmith AFB A-Models 91-92.
I did many many many TO's and landings in the jump seat. Many flights outta Kadena, Anderson, UTapao, Don Maung, CCK. I crewed 63-7985 back in th early 70's. Home base was Lockbourne AFB, Cols. Ohio. 301ARW. Loved this b1rd!
63-7980 here.
so thats how they do it....
how is it possible a giant tanker take off just after another giant tanker? I can imagine the wind turbulence made by the first one wow...those engines were indeed powerful
Vírus do Bom Senso we would offset upwind, and climb above the wake turbulence. Sometimes we find the wake and would traverse through it as soon as possible. Yeah we used the water injection during these takeoff's for maximum thrust on the turbojet engines.
thank you. I'ts amazing to have such experienced military officer around here!!!
My pleasure, thank you.
4:08 that's a lot of smoke from all those tankers
No one kicks ass without tanker gas. Thanks for the videos. Would flights have been EMCON under wartime conditions?
When I was in SAC at a KC-135 base. We were not allowed to have cameras on the flight line. To see the video inside of the cockpit. Weird has security changed?
Either the visibility was poor or my eyes are fading because I didn't see the 1, 2, and 3 tankers -- I just saw one and that one was at a higher altitude which isn't what I remember about tanker cell formations.
Cell takeoffs were routine out of UTapao, especially during Linebacker II. I was on one out of UTapao during Linebacker II where due to a combination of factors, vertigo, napping navigator and communications mix-up, our tanker ended up following a flight of F-4s towards Hanoi and we ended up 200 NM due north of NKP. I'm most likely the only boom operator that witnessed a B-52 bomb train about 3 miles behind the tanker.
Retired CMSgt and former instructor operator
Thank you for your comments E9clyde9; wow, that's quite the experience you describe. The vis was not the best, and there were a few thin decks on climb out. In addition, the cell was still stretched out a bit on the departure. You can view the cell stacked up once rejoined on my video:
KC-135 Tanker Cell Departure Rejoin at th-cam.com/video/Sel2vRRelfw/w-d-xo.html
Worked IFR maintenance on kc135 75-78 miss those birds
Thank you for your comment, insight, and your service Heriberta Wells.
I'm surprised they mixed R's with A's. It was always easier to avoid the wake from the A model with the smoke trail.
Thank you for your comments Mike. They always had the R-Models leading the cells. It was nice transitioning from the A's into the R; the performance was comforting.
This Anderson AFB, Guam.
My favorite was 10299 at KI...
So the idea is that you guys get away before an inbound strike? That makes sense, but what about all the people that get left behind? Do they scatter as well once you guys are out of there?
I can’t quite tell which way the winds blowing
Where was this taken?
So severely under-powered that it seems almost unbelievable.
I used to sit in the jump seat on these, true blue Crew Chief
Thank you for your comments John; certainly the best centralized seat on the flight deck.
Might you be the Sekula at Loring in mid 80s? Small world! INFO-YOU. JJ is now in the VA nursing home in Caribou. Mac is well. Ossy is gone. I bet you miss servicing hyd up on the wing up on Ramp 3. A prelight in last night's cold wind would have been brutal. We were SAC. MIKE BOUCHARD 623501
This was several years ago because of the older jet engines on these jets.
Thank you for your comment Bbendfender, you are correct, 1991.
Do large aircraft like the 135 usually put out black smoke like the one in front of you did?
They used to when they had J-57 turbo-jet engines with water injection used during take-off for added thrust. Now they are powered with CFM-56 high bypass turbo-fan engines.
doorkicker911 Its the water injection. During the first 2 minuets 670 gallons of water go thru those engines on takeoff. The smoke clears when the water runs out. The reason they do this is to provide added thrust for take off.
Holy smokes
Lol, yes those water injected takeoffs created some serious smoke.
***** Especially in humid air- B-47's really were that dirty in the 60s :). At Pease AFB- 509 OMS 1977-78, and before that at Pease also- visited occasionally with family member. He was stationed at PAFB from 1963 to '65, now deceased. He was a APN-69 IFF tech.
Where was this filmed?
Kadena AB, Okinawa
tony was this a chemtrail flight pls respond
Thank you for your question Jake. I am familiar with contrails; however, this sortie was training towards cell formation and its applicable operations.
the thumbs down must be from a Bomber Puke. So Slow..
This is Kadena
MITO spacing was NEVER 12 seconds. It was 30 seconds. You can here the time called out in the video when the jet is taking off.
Thank you for your comments D. Weather restrictions on this launch precluded the 12 second spacing. Aircrews trained and executed the Minimum Interval Take Off (MITO) with 12 second spacing. This launch was downgraded to Cell spacing due to the cloud deck being reported.
I was a 135 cew chief 1970-73 during the Viet Nam war, MITO's were ALWAYS 15 seconds. During Operation Linebacker 1 and 2 (1972) the TO's were 30 seconds apart from Kadena, UTapao, and Anderson.
Wrong
D you obviously never spent time in SAC!
DAN Murphy sorry dude. Commented on the wrong thread. Loring tankertoad nav 83-90.
you don't often see a cell takeoff, they normally join in a flight rejoin and from there they fly in cell formation.. interesting vid.
It was a rare procedure, however we had training requirements to maintain for cell takeoffs. There was a period when tanker spacing used to be 12 seconds, lol.
Actually, the 12 second spacing was called a MITO, or Minimum Interval Take Off. The cell takeoffs were employed for safety, and when there was no need for urgency. MITO's are no longer utilized, as far as I know.
If the first tanker was to abort that would be quite a mess.
That is very true, an abort by any of the 5 ships would certainly create a gaggle to be dealt with at a moments notice. Being collectively briefed, if lead were to abort, #2 would assume the lead and so on. Safety is paramount within a training sortie; however, it was a great feeling when the cell would launch without a hitch.
It is a great thing to see and if you get the chance to experience it. The other day we had an overflight of 3 kc-135 in cell formation but it might have been b-1's because the flight lead was below the other 2 a/c
Are those A or E models?
Thank you for your question adrianspeeder. The first two are R-Model tankers leading the cell, and all the rest are A-Models.
***** You are welcome sir! I've only ever been around R models in my C-17 deployments, and only flight for an MRT out of the Deid was on a T model. How did the A compare to the R?
adrianspeeder who ever ask about r model the cmf56 is slower then you see the cmf has air by pass so you loose compress air it is by passed .but the j57used all the air 16 stages worth so at allude the eng is faster then the cmf56 or the tf33 look it up 1c135-4 to . I was a tanker crew chief from 1977-2000 I worked a frames q models e models ec I:35 rc135m w v .i,ve worked the line .it was a great acft to crew and fly being a sac train killer I,ve travel the world had a great caree and loved it retired usaf crew chief !
@@williamcruz7044 hate to pop your bubble, but a R model will outperform an A model any day. More power, cleaner burning, better mileage, zero maintenance. 24 year retired crew chief.
I like more the KC135E better engines
Not the best cockpit intercom discipline. The Nav would have busted a check ride for missed and confusing calls even before level off. Safety of flight issues.
Why not 15 seconds apart, like we had to do in the 70's??
thx
J5743wb
bring back SAC! the combined threats from a united russia- china alliance against us has NEVER been greater!! super energized China on a war path!!
Memories of the good ole days in SAC...SEYMOUR JOHNSON AFB crew CHIEF KC-135 57-2591 76-81