Well, sometimes learning hurts a bit. Sometimes we learn not to make that kind of mistake again. Next time you'll check the alignment on the chips 🤷♂ I think what you do is incredible and super interesting. Your videos got me down the retro rabbithole in the first place and I have found so much nostalgia and great memories because of them - because of what you do! Thank you!
This is amazing work Jan, just amazing, what a patience! :) Never be sorry for a failure, I know we learn that in school (for some reason), but it's the single best way to learn.
Jan, your channel is the most realistic of all of the retro restore channels I've seen. Watching you learn and improve over the years is truly inspiring. We as refurbishers have all done this. We have all made mistakes. It's very brave of you to show yours to the world. And that is why we watch. Cheers to you!
Jan Beta... This is your conscience speaking... You need to complete part 3 of the A4000 Battery Damage Repair. Jan, really enjoy your videos. Your determination is commendable. I also am working on an A4000 Rev B that seems to be in nearly the same state. Lots of bodge wires, not as many as yours, but my board had significant battery damage underneath the ram slots, requiring many bodge wires there. These computers are worth the time and effort to restore. Just think of it, you can repair the damage Commodore did do this computer by using "the Varta time bomb"...
Two things... I am a 14 year electronics technician with tons of hours soldering smc components and even without the fancy microscope and smc needle soldering iron, you seem to still do a great job. Also, I still occasionally put an ic in backwards. Happens to everyone doing this work sometimes! I love the channel. Keep up the good work!
I nailed the buster on my Amiga 2000 by putting it in backwards. That chip is near unobtainium, finally found a replacement but it cost a pretty penny. I felt your pain. Keep working at it you will get it.
Ouch, I really feel for you. I also really appreciate leaving the mistakes in so people realize a restoration is not usually a straight line, but a very hilly road!
Hi Jan, a very interesting video as usual. I had a similar issue with a leakage of a Varta battery inside an A3000. I would suggest to remove the socketed chips (Kickstart and Super Buster) because there could be some green spot of acid moisture inside the sockets that prevents the good contact necessary to have a working machine. In my Amiga 3000 I had so many troubles with acid moisture vapor that covered many chips on the motherboard, also distant from the zone where the battery was located, from green screen at boot to machine freezing when it warmed up after some minutes since power on. I had to replace all the corroded sockets. Cheers from Italy.
I'm in the exact same situation. Right down to testing with an A2000 keyboard. I think and trust me I'm just learning you can trim down a lot of the unknown failure points. I think u177 can be omitted while testing. I think u975 can be omitted if you connect pin1 of u976 to ground. This should greatly reduce the number of bodges to at least get it running.
Next step tips; check the basics: are the roms fitted in the correct order, are the int/ext jumpers set right. If the led stays dim it doesn't have to be the cpu isn't running, but it's not executing code correctly for sure since setting the led to bright is one of the first things kickstart (and diagrom) does. Also check that the pwr led trace which goes right by the battery is repaired correctly. Do try Diagrom (with serial out), it may give hints.
I totally agree, the two kickstart IC's look like they have different markings (might be same version can't tell without closer inspection). I had a 4000 rev b recently with exactly the same symptoms (even after fixing a couple of damaged traces and battery clean up), going back to the basics I noticed the original owner had put the kickstart IC's back in the wrong order during their fault finding, I switched them around, and it booted fine.
Hey, Jan! usually I'm a silent lurker, but I can not resist: don't scold yourself too harshly. Botch-ups and mistakes happen, especially the small ones, but, heck: you learn from it and do better next time. :-) I know - I'm in the software industry, and I've done and am still doing my botch-ups and stupid mistakes. So, stay safe and healthy. besides, very interesting work. I like your vids!
On the positive side the bodge wires are already done one end, you just need to reattach 🙂 I've been working on an A600 and have buggered up a couple of pads, of which one was entirely my fault. Too much heat and force 😕
Totally agree on replacing the RAM sockets. Not only is the plastic probably brittle from age, but you also don't know where or how much the battery might have sprayed on them and weakened the plastic even further.
It happens mate. After all, you're a human not a robot and you like everyone else makes mistakes. Part of life and a learning experience. Great video. Thanks for sharing 😊
Wow, such a lot of work and well done so far. As for the setback with the chips, you did well to come back the next day. Is there some saying about falling off the horse and getting back on it straight away? Maybe it's the best way. Looking forward to the next thrilling episode 😊✔
Yes, that's plan b! Still working on it on and off, maybe I'll get it to work eventually. I think there's still a couple of broken traces that I missed.
You will eventually figure it out Jan, sometimes you need to clear your head for a bit and come back with a fresh pair of eyes. Love the Tank Girl T-Shirt!
If all else fails Jan, there's always the new replacement Amiga 4000 motherboard that's available. I'd watch 30+ hours of you repopulating that with new and old components from this very battery damaged one ;-)
Generally I think it is easier to remove SMD-electrolytics by cutting them off along the indentation at the bottom (pressing on top) with a pair of sharp pincers, then the plastic bottom spacer is easily removable and the pins can be removed with a soldering iron. Saves a lot of heat and stress on the board and neighbouring components.
I know how much work this is. I done it myself on my A4000 that is now working perfect. Also change the CPU fan to Noctua for more quiet operation. Great work you are doing. Hope you can fix it.
I'm watching regularly. I appreciate your way of procedure and explanations. Learning a lot. You give me idea of what i want to engage in, too. Tank you.
Jan this just proves you are just human, it also proves that before you power on first imagine what would be the worst error you could have made and check if your fear is real. Reverse mounting IC's is actually the first thing that comes to mind, especially when the chip is some kind of ROM. But logic IC's too (obviously). So now its "just" debugging LOL. good luck! Using the caps lock key to check for a life CPU is a trick I also often do.
Das war Abzusehen und mir wäre das zuviel Arbeit.Dann lieber ein "Neues" Unbestücktes Board ,da sind dann wenigstens die Leitungen alle OK. Ein großes Lob an dich für deine Geduld und deinen Fleiß ,auch wenn du noch nicht einmal weisst ob es hinterher ohne Probleme im Betrieb läuft.
Hope this helps. I got my a4000 going by putting in a chucky version a3630 and I also put the entire main board in an ultrasonic cleaner the amount electrolyte that came up was unbelievable even after I cleaned it with a q tip. The machine has been perfect after its deep cleaning.
Thank you for including the bumps along the road to repair. I have one request regarding the damaged pads and corroded solder. Would you consider a donation of desoldering alloy to try using in a future video? I've been trying to get Adrian Black to try some, but he has a large backlog. There are a couple of brands on the market now, all of which were originally intended for SMT rework like you show in this video. They are also good for reworking PTH components with large thermal mass, and the eutetic point is around 90°C (that's correct, below the boiling point of water.) The only downside is that you must thoroughly clean up all of the alloy before soldering a new component onto the board, otherwise you'll have brittle joints.
Hey man, if it makes you feel any better, I recently destroyed 10 years worth of my art and writing by accidentally formatting an 8TB external drive when what I meant to do was format an 8GB USB stick. It's similarly, technically, mostly, recoverable, but will take a lot of work and expensive software to fix, so I feel your pain so so so much in this video.
Vielleicht ist es bei einem dermassen von Lauge und Säure amgfressenem Board "einfacher", sich ein "neues" nachgebautes A4000 Board zu besorgen und die komponenten vom angefressenen Board auf das neue Board zu bauen. Ist auch eine Heidenarbeit, aber dafür hast du wenigsten die Sìcherheit, dass alle Traces ok sind....
The easiest way here is to re-seat all components onto a new PCB. Damaged traces in the internal layers can be not only disconnected, but also shorted together.
The inner layers are ground and 5V mostly as far as I know, so a short would be super obvious. Replacement board is plan b for when the repair fails. ;)
tip: to de-solder stubborn pins easily, you can use syringe needle. It is stainless steal so solder is not sticking to it. You can buy different sizes in farmacja. It is a pipe so idea is to put it na the pin while spining with fingers and heating with the soldering iron (heat near the pin).
Jan! much respect, Im also trying to repair and Amiga 4000 and having similar issues, they are problem children... One question... my Super Buster may have an issue, a year ago, before I HAD to put the 4000 in my loft mid repair (dont ask) it was booting, but no fast ram. When I got it down this week to replace the Octal Transceiver (Fast Ram) I found the Super Buster had popped out of its socket, and I assume rattled around a bit :/ Now it has a Black screen... no oscilloscope (Amazon has one on way) so no way to test right now. So.. Does the A4000 black screen when the Super Buster is not plugged in( maybe dead), or do we get some diag colours? Mine is blackscreen, so upsetting.... drat!
I have similar damage to my board I am just beginning to evaluate. My lowest ram socket has signs of corrosion, and my clock controller chip has only a few pads remaining… looking at all the boge wires you’ve placed in that area I’m really not looking forward to toning out the potential damage… I’ve already rinsed with vinegar the board… after removing the varta of course… Wish me luck!
For the audio output capacitors, it was not clear to me if you were saying that the silk screen was wrong or the capacitor placement was wrong. The normal way would be for the capacitor + to be from the circuitry and the capacitor negative terminal to go to the speaker.
I finally got a rework station so I could do smc stuff. I lifted 3 pads😫. I’m pretty sure I can fix it but what a way to start my first repair at home.
Those darned batteries, it's what did my A500 Plus in (it had an on-board RTC & NiCad battery, instead of being an add-on as part of the RAM expansion), and at the time, about 18 years or so ago, such amigas were worthless old relics so not worth saving sadly, shame given the prices they fetch now even in battery-ruined states... :(
Hi Jan, were you ever able to complete this repair? The state that you are in now is where I was on my A3000 repair - turned out I had to replace three Oki video chips and update some of my bodge wire repair to remedy. I had the same issue with the caps lock stopping after around seven presses which some people immediately say, “bad cpu.” Well, nothing was wrong with my CPU at all and that’s probably the case on yours as well. Still looking forward to seeing you getting this Amiga fully resurrected.
Ah, so it makes sense that when you have a damaged area of a board, you can't just check all the connections from/to parts in that area, you need to check connections of any parts that have traces that pass through that area. I wonder how much stuff does pass by that damaged area and may have been corroded? Still, its a lot of damage to repair in that section, so you are a brave man for taking on such a challenge. That said, if a replacement A4000 board does exist, when does it become better to populate a new board instead of repairing a damaged one?
Now that's what I call a mess. Perhaps making a small separate board (including a battery holder) is a more solid solution, but that would, of course, require some design work and such. A significant down-side to battery damage is that each case is unique, so it's harder to create general fixes/replacements. Multi-layer boards doesn't help either.
I would like to know more about the used equipment. What kind of flux are you using? Where can it be bought in Germany? There are several kinds of flux available on Amazon, Reichelt, Conrad etc. but I would like to know which one you would recommend and which one you have been using in this video. Many thanks in advance! BTW I grew up using an C64 (@home) and a CBM 3032 (@school) , later a Atari 1040 STF and then turned to PCs (during diploma working also with PDP11 and MicroVAX). I never owned an Amiga, but during C64 and ST times it was a unaffordable dream! So I'm looking forward so see this one running again! Currently I have a non working CBM 8032 on the bench and will try to bring it back to live during the rest of this year. Quite a challenge due to parts shortage and delivery problems nowadays.
Hätte mich ehrlich gesagt gewundert, wenn die Maschine läuft. Normalerweise findet man Unterbrechungen offensichtlich an Traces im RTC Bereich, oder am Übergang der Traces an Pads/VIAs. Das muss alles durchgeklingelt werden, bevor man die ICs aufbringt. Selbst im Audiobereich hatte ich (glücklicherweise schnell) eine unsichtbare Unterbrechung direkt an einem Elko gefunden. Ich nehm da (22uF) Bipolare Caps. Sind teuer und zu groß, aber mit Heißluft geht das. Du solltest im Audiobereich auch schauen ob mehr runter muss als die Elkos. Wenn es matt ist und bei Hitze fischig ist, sollte es gehen..
hey i was thinking, maybe you could try copper tape and rebuilding the traces and pads for the real time clock section of the board, save you all that mess of those bodge wires.
You're too hard on yourself. Give yourself a break. This kind of work is difficult, long, tedious, and often hard to get right. The damage on that board is really extensive, and I don't know many would have the patience to repair it and keep going.
An den drei ICs, die du in dieser Folge so arbeitsintensiv bearbeitet hast, kann es nicht liegen, dass die CPU nicht anspringt. Der (von vorne gesehen) rechte IC ist für die RTC verantwortlich, der mittlere steuert - zusammen mit dem Jumperblock - Alice an und der linke ist für Mouse und Tastatur verantwortlich. Die CPU allein würde auch ohne , dass einer dieser drei ICs funktioniert, zumindest "Lebenszeichen" zeigen etwa in Form eines grünen oder gelben Screens... Also, als nächstes die Signale an der CPU mit dem Scope zu messen, erstmal natürlich die Spannungen und den Reset-Circuit... Wahrscheinlich ist es etwas mit dem Adressbus von der CPU/den Custom Chips mit dem Chipram. Ist da irgendwo ein Buskonflikt, wird die CPU automatisch auf "halt" gesetzt (musste mal scopen...)... Diese Verbindungen und alle irgendwie daran beteiligten Bausteine wären meine Hauptverdächtigen, warum die CPU nicht läuft. Läuft die CPU erstmal, hättest du schon viel erreicht...
I've done loads of pcb repairs - both professionally and hobby, but repairing multi-level pcb's from leaking battery corrosion - especially if it's been sitting a while which most of damaged Amigas and other retro computers have, it can quickly turn into a never ending project. If inner layer traces are severed - or worse shortened, it'll send you on the wrong path so many times it's no longer funny... Short of x-raying the pcb it's neigh impossible to know if it's damaged inside and you can't dig into the pcb with a dremel just to check either (unless you know the layer layouts?!). Saying that, you learn loads by doing pcb repairs and when successful you grow with confidence, but at some stage you need to know when to cut your losses. As you already know you can get replacement boards for several Amigas and in this case you should consider (although I think you've already done this ;) ) transplanting the components to a new pcb knowing that this A4000 will work for a very long time, which you never know with a corroded pcb since minute traces of battery acid can still linger somewhere and continue to do damage. Still great work! I would suggest that you run your bodge wires through larger vias or any available hole on the pcb instead of over the edge. You might run into problems mounting the board in the computer, or worse get a short down the line through chafing... Good luck getting this Amiga back from the grave! It's never too late, but give yourself a limit when enough is enough because even if it'll get you good content, at some stage the hours just won't make sense! A new pcb isn't that expensive - especially if you count the hours you've already spent ;)
Using a replacement board definitely is plan b in case the repair effort fails. As far as I know, there's "only" ground and voltage supply inner layers on the A4000 board so a short would be pretty obvious. I am pretty confident I can fix it still (at this point). But we'll see! :D
@@JanBeta Let's hope you can find the last traces that are still haunting you so you don't have to take plan b, but like I said, leaking battery damage is the hardest repair to do - and you never know if you've removed all the battery acid or not. Regardless I wish you all the luck getting the A4000 running again! Cheers!
Yeah, a replacement board is definitely the plan for when the repair fails. But that's going to be another tedious task and you never know if you damage any of the proprietary chips while moving them over. :/
That fault will happen sooner or later. I made it with the ram-sockets on an C128er. 16 (aaaah) times resoldering sockets and 16 destroyed 4164 Ram-Chips. Ouch!
IIRC the caps from the early 90s were just notorious for leaking. It was a capacitor plague, and it affected a lot of Amigas from that time as well as a lot of Macs.
Cut the locating pins on connectors that aren't to be re-used. Remember that the flux from solder is designed to remove oxide, not just to wet the metals.
What ever happened with this computer? For some reason I was thinking it was an A2000, but it was an A4000. My bad. Did you end up having to get a new PCB or another motherboard for it? A cliff hanger indeed.
I still didn’t get the A4000 to work but I’m going to revisit it eventually. Just had to put it aside for some time because it was pretty frustrating in the end. Might end up getting a replacement board, too.
We all have our facepalm moments. I ruined my A500 when I was upgrading the kickstart from 2.0 to 3.1. I learned the hard way to not do soldering when your blood sugar levels are to low, you do stupid things then. I'm sure I can fix it, just haven't taken the time to do it yet.
For all I know, my CPU card is absolutely fine. The A4000 went through the boot sequence with it up to a point before I started removing chips and corrosion. I most likely just missed a couple of connections (still working on fully repairing the thing).
@Jan Beta: You apologized for making an, admittedly, colossal mistake in mounting the chips near the RTC backwards! Why apologize? Making mistakes, admitting them to yourself, and learning from the mistake is part and parcel with this type of work!!! I think most, if not all, of us have been there, too. Difference being that you did this with a video, and you are enough of an adult to own your mistake rather than editing out the error. You did some very time consuming and meticulous work to get that board running again. And the mistake you made is fairly easy, especially on a board that doesn't have much in the way of markings for polarity. (Amiga is a nice computer, but Commodore was not a good manufacturer. [My opinion.] )
Well, sometimes learning hurts a bit. Sometimes we learn not to make that kind of mistake again. Next time you'll check the alignment on the chips 🤷♂ I think what you do is incredible and super interesting. Your videos got me down the retro rabbithole in the first place and I have found so much nostalgia and great memories because of them - because of what you do! Thank you!
This is amazing work Jan, just amazing, what a patience! :) Never be sorry for a failure, I know we learn that in school (for some reason), but it's the single best way to learn.
Jan, your channel is the most realistic of all of the retro restore channels I've seen. Watching you learn and improve over the years is truly inspiring. We as refurbishers have all done this. We have all made mistakes. It's very brave of you to show yours to the world. And that is why we watch. Cheers to you!
Hey, I'm looking forward to part 3!
And don't forget:
We don't make mistakes, only happy accidents! (Bob Ross)
Jan Beta... This is your conscience speaking... You need to complete part 3 of the A4000 Battery Damage Repair.
Jan, really enjoy your videos. Your determination is commendable. I also am working on an A4000 Rev B that seems to be in nearly the same state. Lots of bodge wires, not as many as yours, but my board had significant battery damage underneath the ram slots, requiring many bodge wires there. These computers are worth the time and effort to restore. Just think of it, you can repair the damage Commodore did do this computer by using "the Varta time bomb"...
I am hoping for the best - every saved Amiga is a good Amiga. I'm rooting for you!
Two things... I am a 14 year electronics technician with tons of hours soldering smc components and even without the fancy microscope and smc needle soldering iron, you seem to still do a great job. Also, I still occasionally put an ic in backwards. Happens to everyone doing this work sometimes! I love the channel. Keep up the good work!
yes... its all about you 🤨 No one asked
I nailed the buster on my Amiga 2000 by putting it in backwards. That chip is near unobtainium, finally found a replacement but it cost a pretty penny. I felt your pain. Keep working at it you will get it.
Ouch, I really feel for you. I also really appreciate leaving the mistakes in so people realize a restoration is not usually a straight line, but a very hilly road!
True, when people show mistakes in videos, I don’t feel as bad about my own work!
don't worry Jan. The videos where you struggle are the best! That does not mean that you enjoy it :-D
Hi Jan, a very interesting video as usual. I had a similar issue with a leakage of a Varta battery inside an A3000. I would suggest to remove the socketed chips (Kickstart and Super Buster) because there could be some green spot of acid moisture inside the sockets that prevents the good contact necessary to have a working machine. In my Amiga 3000 I had so many troubles with acid moisture vapor that covered many chips on the motherboard, also distant from the zone where the battery was located, from green screen at boot to machine freezing when it warmed up after some minutes since power on. I had to replace all the corroded sockets. Cheers from Italy.
Ouch, every retro fan's nightmare. Great work showing how to approach it.
Great episode Jan.
I've always believed the best way to learn is from your mistakes. Keep going, I'm sure you'll get there in the end!
I'm in the exact same situation. Right down to testing with an A2000 keyboard. I think and trust me I'm just learning you can trim down a lot of the unknown failure points.
I think u177 can be omitted while testing.
I think u975 can be omitted if you connect pin1 of u976 to ground.
This should greatly reduce the number of bodges to at least get it running.
you have gone so far with your soldering skill compared to when you first started this channel very impressive
Keep going, I can't wait to see you repair this and get it booting up
Next step tips; check the basics: are the roms fitted in the correct order, are the int/ext jumpers set right. If the led stays dim it doesn't have to be the cpu isn't running, but it's not executing code correctly for sure since setting the led to bright is one of the first things kickstart (and diagrom) does. Also check that the pwr led trace which goes right by the battery is repaired correctly. Do try Diagrom (with serial out), it may give hints.
I totally agree, the two kickstart IC's look like they have different markings (might be same version can't tell without closer inspection). I had a 4000 rev b recently with exactly the same symptoms (even after fixing a couple of damaged traces and battery clean up), going back to the basics I noticed the original owner had put the kickstart IC's back in the wrong order during their fault finding, I switched them around, and it booted fine.
Sooooooo looking forward to the next installment…
Ich finde den Gesang (das Geschrei?) der Krähen sehr entspannend! Besser als jede tickende Wanduhr!
Hey, Jan! usually I'm a silent lurker, but I can not resist: don't scold yourself too harshly. Botch-ups and mistakes happen, especially the small ones, but, heck: you learn from it and do better next time. :-) I know - I'm in the software industry, and I've done and am still doing my botch-ups and stupid mistakes. So, stay safe and healthy. besides, very interesting work. I like your vids!
Hey, thanks for that! I tend to be very critical with myself. Working on that though! :)
On the positive side the bodge wires are already done one end, you just need to reattach 🙂 I've been working on an A600 and have buggered up a couple of pads, of which one was entirely my fault. Too much heat and force 😕
Totally agree on replacing the RAM sockets. Not only is the plastic probably brittle from age, but you also don't know where or how much the battery might have sprayed on them and weakened the plastic even further.
Fantastic dedication and patience. Well done Jan. Am sure you will get there in the end.
Jan, I think you will figure this out. Looking forward to your future work on this mother board.
Bad flashbacks of my first A600 repair, so many lifted pads on the SMD caps... Luckily it went well for you, I had a bit of anxiety watching.
It happens mate. After all, you're a human not a robot and you like everyone else makes mistakes. Part of life and a learning experience. Great video. Thanks for sharing 😊
Keep going, Jan. It'll be worth it in the end.
Oh It will be (if he manages), you have no idea yet. ;)
Wow, such a lot of work and well done so far. As for the setback with the chips, you did well to come back the next day. Is there some saying about falling off the horse and getting back on it straight away? Maybe it's the best way. Looking forward to the next thrilling episode 😊✔
Nice job,if that board doesn't work out it will be a candidate for a new Acill A4000 PCB.
Yes, that's plan b! Still working on it on and off, maybe I'll get it to work eventually. I think there's still a couple of broken traces that I missed.
You will eventually figure it out Jan, sometimes you need to clear your head for a bit and come back with a fresh pair of eyes. Love the Tank Girl T-Shirt!
If all else fails Jan, there's always the new replacement Amiga 4000 motherboard that's available. I'd watch 30+ hours of you repopulating that with new and old components from this very battery damaged one ;-)
Yeah, that's my plan b if the repair fails. ;)
There was a lot of suspense in this video. I enjoyed it very much. Keep on going Jan. Keep the suspense going !!!
Generally I think it is easier to remove SMD-electrolytics by cutting them off along the indentation at the bottom (pressing on top) with a pair of sharp pincers, then the plastic bottom spacer is easily removable and the pins can be removed with a soldering iron. Saves a lot of heat and stress on the board and neighbouring components.
I know how much work this is. I done it myself on my A4000 that is now working perfect. Also change the CPU fan to Noctua for more quiet operation. Great work you are doing. Hope you can fix it.
Me: I'd never make a misteak. 😎
No plumes of magic smoke so you're close to fixing the board. Buzz out the traces a bit further from the bodges.
I'm watching regularly. I appreciate your way of procedure and explanations. Learning a lot. You give me idea of what i want to engage in, too. Tank you.
Jan this just proves you are just human, it also proves that before you power on first imagine what would be the worst error you could have made and check if your fear is real. Reverse mounting IC's is actually the first thing that comes to mind, especially when the chip is some kind of ROM. But logic IC's too (obviously). So now its "just" debugging LOL. good luck! Using the caps lock key to check for a life CPU is a trick I also often do.
Danke fürs zuschauen lassen!
Das war Abzusehen und mir wäre das zuviel Arbeit.Dann lieber ein "Neues" Unbestücktes Board ,da sind dann wenigstens die Leitungen alle OK.
Ein großes Lob an dich für deine Geduld und deinen Fleiß ,auch wenn du noch nicht einmal weisst ob es hinterher ohne Probleme im Betrieb läuft.
Hope this helps. I got my a4000 going by putting in a chucky version a3630 and I also put the entire main board in an ultrasonic cleaner the amount electrolyte that came up was unbelievable even after I cleaned it with a q tip. The machine has been perfect after its deep cleaning.
It's a lot of Work!! RESPECT👍🏻
Thank you for including the bumps along the road to repair.
I have one request regarding the damaged pads and corroded solder. Would you consider a donation of desoldering alloy to try using in a future video? I've been trying to get Adrian Black to try some, but he has a large backlog.
There are a couple of brands on the market now, all of which were originally intended for SMT rework like you show in this video. They are also good for reworking PTH components with large thermal mass, and the eutetic point is around 90°C (that's correct, below the boiling point of water.) The only downside is that you must thoroughly clean up all of the alloy before soldering a new component onto the board, otherwise you'll have brittle joints.
Hey man, if it makes you feel any better, I recently destroyed 10 years worth of my art and writing by accidentally formatting an 8TB external drive when what I meant to do was format an 8GB USB stick. It's similarly, technically, mostly, recoverable, but will take a lot of work and expensive software to fix, so I feel your pain so so so much in this video.
Vielleicht ist es bei einem dermassen von Lauge und Säure amgfressenem Board "einfacher", sich ein "neues" nachgebautes A4000 Board zu besorgen und die komponenten vom angefressenen Board auf das neue Board zu bauen. Ist auch eine Heidenarbeit, aber dafür hast du wenigsten die Sìcherheit, dass alle Traces ok sind....
Great work Jan. My memory from Gadget UK's videos is that he had a lot of trouble with exactly the clock issues you are looking at.
The easiest way here is to re-seat all components onto a new PCB. Damaged traces in the internal layers can be not only disconnected, but also shorted together.
The inner layers are ground and 5V mostly as far as I know, so a short would be super obvious. Replacement board is plan b for when the repair fails. ;)
tip: to de-solder stubborn pins easily, you can use syringe needle. It is stainless steal so solder is not sticking to it. You can buy different sizes in farmacja. It is a pipe so idea is to put it na the pin while spining with fingers and heating with the soldering iron (heat near the pin).
Wow, the crows sure make a racket.
Pazienza Jan,l'errore capita,comunque stai ridando vita a un mito!.sei il migliore
Jan! much respect, Im also trying to repair and Amiga 4000 and having similar issues, they are problem children... One question... my Super Buster may have an issue, a year ago, before I HAD to put the 4000 in my loft mid repair (dont ask) it was booting, but no fast ram. When I got it down this week to replace the Octal Transceiver (Fast Ram) I found the Super Buster had popped out of its socket, and I assume rattled around a bit :/ Now it has a Black screen... no oscilloscope (Amazon has one on way) so no way to test right now.
So.. Does the A4000 black screen when the Super Buster is not plugged in( maybe dead), or do we get some diag colours? Mine is blackscreen, so upsetting.... drat!
TANK GIRL electronic engineering at its finest ;-)
Thanks! ;)
I have similar damage to my board I am just beginning to evaluate. My lowest ram socket has signs of corrosion, and my clock controller chip has only a few pads remaining… looking at all the boge wires you’ve placed in that area I’m really not looking forward to toning out the potential damage…
I’ve already rinsed with vinegar the board… after removing the varta of course…
Wish me luck!
For the audio output capacitors, it was not clear to me if you were saying that the silk screen was wrong or the capacitor placement was wrong. The normal way would be for the capacitor + to be from the circuitry and the capacitor negative terminal to go to the speaker.
I finally got a rework station so I could do smc stuff. I lifted 3 pads😫. I’m pretty sure I can fix it but what a way to start my first repair at home.
How is this project going? Long times since we heard and see a video of this project a4000 restoration
is there a date for the continuation? I can barely wait for it
good job, its tough, best of luck. if my other message shows up, i was suggesting getting a clone 4000 from ebay.
Well, repetition is the key to mastery!😄
awesome project keep it going
Keep it up master jan.
Thanks mate! I will for sure! :D
You are doing miracles, thank you very much!
Those darned batteries, it's what did my A500 Plus in (it had an on-board RTC & NiCad battery, instead of being an add-on as part of the RAM expansion), and at the time, about 18 years or so ago, such amigas were worthless old relics so not worth saving sadly, shame given the prices they fetch now even in battery-ruined states... :(
There’s nothing like having to do it twice.. it happens to all of us and its maddening every time ..
Just curious: Why do you fix the RTC part when the Amiga can work without it for a first powerup?
Hi Jan, were you ever able to complete this repair? The state that you are in now is where I was on my A3000 repair - turned out I had to replace three Oki video chips and update some of my bodge wire repair to remedy. I had the same issue with the caps lock stopping after around seven presses which some people immediately say, “bad cpu.” Well, nothing was wrong with my CPU at all and that’s probably the case on yours as well. Still looking forward to seeing you getting this Amiga fully resurrected.
Ah, so it makes sense that when you have a damaged area of a board, you can't just check all the connections from/to parts in that area, you need to check connections of any parts that have traces that pass through that area. I wonder how much stuff does pass by that damaged area and may have been corroded? Still, its a lot of damage to repair in that section, so you are a brave man for taking on such a challenge. That said, if a replacement A4000 board does exist, when does it become better to populate a new board instead of repairing a damaged one?
Now that's what I call a mess. Perhaps making a small separate board (including a battery holder) is a more solid solution, but that would, of course, require some design work and such. A significant down-side to battery damage is that each case is unique, so it's harder to create general fixes/replacements. Multi-layer boards doesn't help either.
Great job!
Love your t-shirts! Bikini Kill, Tank girl... One C64, Amiga girl.
I would like to know more about the used equipment. What kind of flux are you using? Where can it be bought in Germany? There are several kinds of flux available on Amazon, Reichelt, Conrad etc. but I would like to know which one you would recommend and which one you have been using in this video. Many thanks in advance! BTW I grew up using an C64 (@home) and a CBM 3032 (@school) , later a Atari 1040 STF and then turned to PCs (during diploma working also with PDP11 and MicroVAX). I never owned an Amiga, but during C64 and ST times it was a unaffordable dream! So I'm looking forward so see this one running again! Currently I have a non working CBM 8032 on the bench and will try to bring it back to live during the rest of this year. Quite a challenge due to parts shortage and delivery problems nowadays.
Hätte mich ehrlich gesagt gewundert, wenn die Maschine läuft. Normalerweise findet man Unterbrechungen offensichtlich an Traces im RTC Bereich, oder am Übergang der Traces an Pads/VIAs. Das muss alles durchgeklingelt werden, bevor man die ICs aufbringt. Selbst im Audiobereich hatte ich (glücklicherweise schnell) eine unsichtbare Unterbrechung direkt an einem Elko gefunden. Ich nehm da (22uF) Bipolare Caps. Sind teuer und zu groß, aber mit Heißluft geht das. Du solltest im Audiobereich auch schauen ob mehr runter muss als die Elkos. Wenn es matt ist und bei Hitze fischig ist, sollte es gehen..
Jan, I would rather crawl ten miles on broken glass, than do what your trying to do ! Good luck! LOL
Oh dear, you might have to go full Adrian Black on this one...
Yay! Tank Girl T-shirt! Have been a super Tank Girl/Jamie Hewlett fan since the comic ran in Commodore User in the 80s. And of course Gorillaz!
hey i was thinking, maybe you could try copper tape and rebuilding the traces and pads for the real time clock section of the board, save you all that mess of those bodge wires.
The traces are tiny though, it would take someone with a higher skill level (and some very sharp exacto knifes) to pull that off!
@@JanBeta thats a good point to make, yet, something tells me, you are crazy enough to do it! :) ahahaha, lol. good luck!
48:56 thank you for having the humility to admit mistakes, we have all made epic failures (me more than you)
Yeah, SUPER TEDIOUS my thoughts exactly!
make it longer i think you are good in what you do
Danke!
You're too hard on yourself. Give yourself a break. This kind of work is difficult, long, tedious, and often hard to get right. The damage on that board is really extensive, and I don't know many would have the patience to repair it and keep going.
Is it possible the problem is with the A3630 daughter board. I'm wondering if it's possible to test it on a known good system.
An den drei ICs, die du in dieser Folge so arbeitsintensiv bearbeitet hast, kann es nicht liegen, dass die CPU nicht anspringt. Der (von vorne gesehen) rechte IC ist für die RTC verantwortlich, der mittlere steuert - zusammen mit dem Jumperblock - Alice an und der linke ist für Mouse und Tastatur verantwortlich. Die CPU allein würde auch ohne , dass einer dieser drei ICs funktioniert, zumindest "Lebenszeichen" zeigen etwa in Form eines grünen oder gelben Screens... Also, als nächstes die Signale an der CPU mit dem Scope zu messen, erstmal natürlich die Spannungen und den Reset-Circuit... Wahrscheinlich ist es etwas mit dem Adressbus von der CPU/den Custom Chips mit dem Chipram. Ist da irgendwo ein Buskonflikt, wird die CPU automatisch auf "halt" gesetzt (musste mal scopen...)... Diese Verbindungen und alle irgendwie daran beteiligten Bausteine wären meine Hauptverdächtigen, warum die CPU nicht läuft. Läuft die CPU erstmal, hättest du schon viel erreicht...
I've got my burger, I've got my Coke - now it's time for Beta!
I've done loads of pcb repairs - both professionally and hobby, but repairing multi-level pcb's from leaking battery corrosion - especially if it's been sitting a while which most of damaged Amigas and other retro computers have, it can quickly turn into a never ending project. If inner layer traces are severed - or worse shortened, it'll send you on the wrong path so many times it's no longer funny... Short of x-raying the pcb it's neigh impossible to know if it's damaged inside and you can't dig into the pcb with a dremel just to check either (unless you know the layer layouts?!). Saying that, you learn loads by doing pcb repairs and when successful you grow with confidence, but at some stage you need to know when to cut your losses. As you already know you can get replacement boards for several Amigas and in this case you should consider (although I think you've already done this ;) ) transplanting the components to a new pcb knowing that this A4000 will work for a very long time, which you never know with a corroded pcb since minute traces of battery acid can still linger somewhere and continue to do damage.
Still great work! I would suggest that you run your bodge wires through larger vias or any available hole on the pcb instead of over the edge. You might run into problems mounting the board in the computer, or worse get a short down the line through chafing...
Good luck getting this Amiga back from the grave! It's never too late, but give yourself a limit when enough is enough because even if it'll get you good content, at some stage the hours just won't make sense! A new pcb isn't that expensive - especially if you count the hours you've already spent ;)
Using a replacement board definitely is plan b in case the repair effort fails. As far as I know, there's "only" ground and voltage supply inner layers on the A4000 board so a short would be pretty obvious. I am pretty confident I can fix it still (at this point). But we'll see! :D
@@JanBeta Let's hope you can find the last traces that are still haunting you so you don't have to take plan b, but like I said, leaking battery damage is the hardest repair to do - and you never know if you've removed all the battery acid or not. Regardless I wish you all the luck getting the A4000 running again!
Cheers!
48:18 Does that count as a workplace accident? lol
Would this be a candidate for a replacement motherboard? Not sure the repair of the original keeps anything that is needing to be kept?
Yeah, a replacement board is definitely the plan for when the repair fails. But that's going to be another tedious task and you never know if you damage any of the proprietary chips while moving them over. :/
@@JanBeta Good call on the possible damage on transfer, I hadn't thought of that. 👍
That fault will happen sooner or later. I made it with the ram-sockets on an C128er. 16 (aaaah) times resoldering sockets and 16 destroyed 4164 Ram-Chips. Ouch!
Was für ein Drama... soviel Geduld hätte ich nicht...fürdiagrom ist es wohl noch zu früh, wenn die cpu nicht läuft...?
Ja, DiagROM wird erst starten, wenn die CPU ordentlich resetted. Das ist der Plan, wenn ich überhaupt so weit komme. Wir werden sehen!
Should be using ultrasonic basin instead
Is it possible to replace the capacitors for a type that doesn't leak?
IIRC the caps from the early 90s were just notorious for leaking. It was a capacitor plague, and it affected a lot of Amigas from that time as well as a lot of Macs.
Desoldering station goes moo
Tank Girl, nice!
Cut the locating pins on connectors that aren't to be re-used.
Remember that the flux from solder is designed to remove oxide, not just to wet the metals.
What ever happened with this computer? For some reason I was thinking it was an A2000, but it was an A4000. My bad.
Did you end up having to get a new PCB or another motherboard for it? A cliff hanger indeed.
I still didn’t get the A4000 to work but I’m going to revisit it eventually. Just had to put it aside for some time because it was pretty frustrating in the end. Might end up getting a replacement board, too.
We all have our facepalm moments. I ruined my A500 when I was upgrading the kickstart from 2.0 to 3.1. I learned the hard way to not do soldering when your blood sugar levels are to low, you do stupid things then. I'm sure I can fix it, just haven't taken the time to do it yet.
Just so you know, "gauge" rhymes with "page" :)
Just one minute in de video. But good beard!
Haha, thanks. :D
Before doing anything do the easy thing and swap out the A3630. Anyone have a spare to send him to test?
For all I know, my CPU card is absolutely fine. The A4000 went through the boot sequence with it up to a point before I started removing chips and corrosion. I most likely just missed a couple of connections (still working on fully repairing the thing).
@Jan Beta: You apologized for making an, admittedly, colossal mistake in mounting the chips near the RTC backwards! Why apologize? Making mistakes, admitting them to yourself, and learning from the mistake is part and parcel with this type of work!!! I think most, if not all, of us have been there, too. Difference being that you did this with a video, and you are enough of an adult to own your mistake rather than editing out the error. You did some very time consuming and meticulous work to get that board running again. And the mistake you made is fairly easy, especially on a board that doesn't have much in the way of markings for polarity. (Amiga is a nice computer, but Commodore was not a good manufacturer. [My opinion.] )
Manchmal mache ich auch etwas falsch; und ich dachte das passiert nur mir ;-).