I've been a CRPG player (I'm 50) since The Bard's Tale I and SSI Goldbox games - BG and others on this list were incredible (I actually played Wasteland I), but you're right - going back that far can make enjoying them difficult. I have Tyranny on deck, and I'm 600 hours into BG3. I've got another 300 in Pathfinder - maybe I'll give that another run. /shrug Thanks for the video!
@@davdav1370 My little brother is 45. We played RPGs when it was all text (Your Magic Missle hit for 17 damage!) and used to imagine what we're seeing today. So yeah, it's been an incredible journey. Of course, we're waiting for VR to catch up. :)
it was great i agree, the only thing though was that because you could make ur own spells and skils it was very easy to break the game. i remember soling it as a rogue on the hardest setting. stil fun though.
This, so much. It's so sad that they didn't market Tyranny more, which made the chances for a sequel so low. When Tyranny (even with all the dlc) ends, it's such a cliff-hanger and if you enjoyed it, you immediately want to play a sequel. This setting is perfect! I'd also love to see another Arcanum game, another Age of Decadence game (but with gameplay and visuals closer to Colony Ship), Disco Elysium (not by the corporate ZAUM, but rather Kurvitz), Planescape Torment, also isometric Pillars of Eternity 3 instead of Awoved /or is it Avowed?/) and probably a few others I'm forgetting right now. I can make children on an industrial scale and sacrifice them just to see it all through.
Surprised not to see Disco Elysium on this list. I understand its fairly different in style to the more dnd like games, but its such an amazing game from a writing standpoint. Definitely my personal favorite, with Baldur’s Gate 3 being a close second.
I think it's more or less excluded from the genre here, as being more of a narrative game of some sort. I think you can call it a crpg, but with less roleplaying elements perhaps. Doesn't matter really and genres are rarely very well defined. Not sure if Planescape: Torment was excluded for similar reasons or just didn't make the list. For me, both above mentioned games are at the absolute top regardless of genre.
I don't think Disco Elysium would be mentioned before Planescape Torment would've been. But both of these games are more of a story sprinkled here and there with some combat tactics, rather than crpg with a good story.
People say the writing is good, but I just don't get why. It struck me is something an undergrad double majoring in psychology and philosophy world write--that is, it's self-important and shallow with a veneer of profundity.
Never could get very far into the game despite several attempts. I like the mechanics, but the story just could not grab me. It might be that the start as a leader in a conquerering army just did not click with me even if you can step away from it afterwards.
Always happy to see some Tyranny love. Not only is the spell system among the best of any genre, it's unique turn-of-the-iron-age setting and nuanced worldbuilding make for incresibly deep roleplaying options. If you can get past somewhat janky visuals at times and the text-heavy nature of it, it's well worth it
Divinity Original Sin EE got me into the genre, on PS4 at that. Absolutely love that game. But what pushed me over the edge was Pathfinder WotR. This channel was why I bought the game when it officially launched on PC and I never looked back. It took me doing a lot of research on it to fully grasp the game but when I did, it opened up and I love it even more now. Keep up the great work and will be a fan for as long as the channel exists!
I have incredibly found memory of playing Baldur's Gate 2. Definitely agree that the gameplay might be outdated , as the gameplay interface isn't particularly user friendly. But the character depth and party banter was easily my favorite part of the game. Playing the game genuinely felt like I grew with the party members. The conflict that occurs when team members have disagreements. The bond that was formed through the trials. I really liked it. Also, I'm not particularly fond of romance, but I remember feeling inclined to romance one character, only to realize later that I actually respected Jaheira as a character, and wound up in a romance with her. It was a very interesting experience. While not all romances are written equally, I thought Jaheira's personal quest line was exceptional.
I recall her being notoriously hard (and possibly buggy in addition to that?) to romance (possibly the hardest in any game/CRPG). Some fan patches or Enhanced Edition may have changed that though.
mortym, i just wanna let you know im truly grateful for the videos you put out; i probably never would've considered in a million years playing a CRPG until i saw your crpgs for beginners video, which led to me finishing Shadowrun Returns then, and now i'm diving headfirst into BG1 (and yes your analytics are correct, i probably watched that guide 3 times over just to understand the systems haha). but seriously, your perspective entertains & helps a lot of of us here. i think it was in the bg1 beginner guide that you said there's no shame in dropping the difficulty to a more comfortable spot when you paid for the game--somehow i had never considered that--and it's helped me to enjoy myself much more when playing these types of games, given that im much newer to them, so thank you. 🙂
You probably get this a lot, but your reviews and video breakdowns have led me to purchase some of these games and I have been having so much fun. I can't wait to try out WotR once I am finished with BG3 because I want to experience the more challenging system that it offers.
I don't have anything of value to add so I'll just say this: your channel has become my favourite on youtube. I can see your passion for (c)rpgs oozing from every video of yours. Watching you always makes my day better. Truly, thank you so much.
Dragon Age Origins will always be my favourite of the genre. Incredible characters, well written dialogues, generic but enjoyable story, can be completed in a "short" time (for CRPG standards) and the game looks beautiful even now
It was great, but i think what held it back was gameplay. Fights and systems were really bland and shallow even at its era. Loved the game but i dont think it deserves top10 award except maybe for being popular
I really liked pathfinder kingmaker, the only problem for me was that it was very combat focused. There were times when you enter a cave and you had combat encounters every ten meters.
@@MichaelWard-le1ck they fixed it. also just play kineticist and skip every combat xD that class gets stupid op later on and i'd just place aoe on ground and then hit them with another one and watch them die slowly in clouds of burning steam on top of lava x)
@@MichaelWard-le1ck You'll know someone is a Kingmaker player if hearing the words 'Wild Hunt Monarch' sends them into convulsions. A whole lot easier the second time around with adequate preparation and foreknowledge but it was absolutely brutal when we all played it at launch.
I have a lot of love for Pillars of Eternity, especially for the first one. There was something so captivatingly dark about the world there, and their take on deities was refreshing! It took risks and it mostly paid off! I love the original Baldurs greatly, but Pillars absolutely became one of the best RPGs I've ever played!
If you love obsidian, you won't be disappointed with pillars of eternity or Tyranny. Its essentially isometric callbacks to the crpgs of old. Kotor ii is still my favorite of all time, but pillars of eternity has moved to number two & Tyranny 3 due to obsidian's character development, world buildin & general story tellin'. Always cool to see fans of kotor & nvn
Pathfinder WotR is mine favored too, but I personally have enjoyed the Kingmaker more, I have even enjoyed the kingdom management much more than the crusade minigame :). Also I would add Dragon age origin, which is I would say the most simplified crpg to get into.
@@majorgear1021 It depends, king maker is realtime only, so some people may not like it just from that, but I personally find kingmaker story and companions better than of WotR.
Great list, and obviously it's down to personal choice which is totally fine - but I'm somewhat surprised that Planescape Torment didn't make it in there!
If Tyranny didn't end so abruptly, it might be my favorite of all time. I loved my brief time with game and would love to see it finished some time in the future. Great list, btw. Really enjoyed it.
Mortismal's 7 favorite cRPGS? What a great proposition. It's so unfortunate that I already have at least 3 games on my list-to-come while I'm finishing Sea of stars. Thank you for your interesting opinions!
What CRPGs saved for me is turn-based combat. I was always too dumb to play RTwP right so allies were running in AoE spells or enemies were on completely different positions when my caster finished his spell or party members die suddenly because of damage spikes and I react to that like Slowpoke and so on. So after BG3 I'd like to take a closer look on the Divinity and Pathfinder games (again). And also there's Rogue Trader at the end of the year. (Oh, and Pillars of Eternity 2 has also turn-based combat as far as I remember correctly)
I was not that surprised to see Pathfinder at the top, because I've been talking with a friend about it being a little better than BG3 in the story at least, whoever, to see WotR instead of kingmaker truly amazes me, I honestly couldn't keep playing WotR, but kingmaker to this day has my heart as the best fantasy story I've seen.
Nice list. Mine goes a bit more old school but then again I'm probably older. Of course, it depends on how you define the "c" in CPRG. Computer Role Playing Game? Or Classic Role Playing Game? I'm going with "classic", otherwise Skyrim, Disco Elysium and Mass Effect 2 are on this list. But using the classic definition it's probably something like this: - Ultima 7 The Black Gate - opening still gives me chills - BG2 - epic - Dragon Age: Origins - some of the best moral quests despite some gameplay jankies. Barely beats out Tyranny since that one kind of ends abruptly. - Planescape Torment - best RPG story ever - KOTOR 1 - great story and NPCs. KOTOR 2 could have been here if not for the bugs. - BG3 - epic, part 2 - Pathfinder WotW - mythic paths elevate this into sheer greatness
Mortismal, what do you think, will Pathfinder/Paizo (maybe with another colab. with Owlcat again) try to make its own triple A "BG3" game? We know about the rivalries between Paizo and WoTC, and if i were Paizo, i would deffinately try to make some game to rival the BG3 and probe my way into the mainstream.
Before I watch the video, Tyranny in the thumbnail is AMAZING. Man I really liked that game in the short amount of time I spent on it! And I bet Wasteland 3 is on this list!
Wasteland 3 was my 1st crpg and i loved it. Consider it one of fav games ever. It got me try others like DOS which was also great and solasta I've been playing recently.
nice list i really enjoyed all of these games , and i like Wrath more as Bg3 as well. This channel is the reason why i tried this type of games tbh. Thx for that!
Just the fact that in WOTR the fun begins at level 12, build wise, while BG3 has a level cap of 12 is a huge difference. WOTRs high level fights aren't "break it with a single spell", it's "break it with a single build", bouncing synergies off each other.
I mean one could argue early levels in WOTR are even more impactful because you get a lot of value and key feats. Also I feel like WOTR in terms of story starts strong and remains strong until the end where as BG3's story fizzles out horrifically in Act 3.
If you got a right build in WOTR, you can keep steamrolling everything blindfolded, except on unfair, maybe. Just spend 5 minutes at the beggining of every dungeon buffing (50 buffs on average at the endgame, really?), and then click on whatever and it dies. If you`re a caster, use those two favourite spells instead and you`ll win. Bg3 is much easier, sure, but somehow i put more thought into actual tactics in battle, like where to stand and what to use, then WOTR, where it`s all about build strategy, and in actual fight you just click aoutoattack (or Sirocco/Icy prison/Higher command/whatever you`re specced for) in most cases.
Tyranny was actually my first CRPG. I was always a console player growing up and I'd never been interested in games without gamepad support. But someone recommended it and i decided to pick it up and had a blast. Great narrative and gameplay. IIRC the ending was lackluster, setting up a sequel we'll never see Wasn't until DoS2 that i played another and its still one of my favourite games of all time, and by far the best coop experience I've had
Part of me wants so badly for there to be a cRPG renaissance and we just get a bunch of high quality games in the genre over the next few years. But, part of me also thinks that the nicheness is what made BG3 so big. Nobody expected a cRPG to take over the world, but the "Dude, I know this isn't you kind of game but you *have* to try it. At least hope into multiplayer with me to check it out" word of mouth spread has definitely played a part in it's popularity as well. Also, this made me want to go back and play Tyranny again. Such a hidden gem that deserves way more credit than it has gotten. Maybe Obsidian will surprise us once they're done with Avowed and Outer Worlds 2? A guy can hope! And I'm looking forward to seeing what Owlcat does with Rogue Trader. I've played the beta a couple of times just to see the progress, but I can't wait to get my hands on the full release and hopefully bury 100+ hours into yet another game this year.
For BG 1 Mort , id say i got into it on my own cause id had it sitting in my library for ages. Every other one of bought since then i attribute to all your videos.
I put WOTR at the top of my list for similar reasons, the level of flexibility and customisation you can do with the difficulty gives the game way more replay factor, BG3 isn't hugely difficult, where as with Pathfinders difficulty settings you can really make a challenging playthrough.
And for me no Pathfinder game will ever make the list, because of the powergaming feel they have. I want to not be forced into some build just because of the power creep. And to top it off I was very offput with both Pathfinder stories by Owlcat. They felt very tropey.
@@O-D-XI agree entierly. Having to pay multiple feat taxes, apply dozens of buffs before each battles and having to dip in 5 different classes made the game a chore to me. Especially since the enemies get ultra bloated stats at higher difficulty levels.
Man both commenters missed the whole point of difficulty. Bg3 is so easy, I was kinda disappointed that there was no iron man mode only to realize it didn't need one because the chance of death in 0.
@@iandevine3063 so enlighten us, what is the actual difficulty in WotR? - You have to learn which of the stuff is crap (95%), and what is OP (5%), that's one. Evidence: there are hundreds (if not thousands) of possible choices, but all builds have basically a couple of same flavors. There is not a single person on this earth who has unironically played a Defender of the True Faith in WoTR, or has taken a full plate while unmounted, or has targeted some "standard" AC when they could target touch AC etc. These things might as well not exist, and again, 95% of the options are like that, not because they're bad compared to OP stuff, but because they don't work even on normal due to stat bloat without reloading (see next points) - Then, you have to know in advance what each encounter is. If you don't, you're screwed and have to reload to a previous point. Evidence: Blackwater, Enigma, etc. - Then, you have to reload heavily if dices screw you over. Watch literally any higher-difficulty playthrough on TH-cam, they are full of reloads. People have minmaxed builds, and they reload ad infinitum, until they get a favorable roll. I can post a couple of such "famous" (in WotR circles) youtubers, but everyone can find these for themselves easily. How the heck is that fun? None of what I listed is especially difficult, it just requires excess free time. It's not like there is any thinking involved, or creativity, a physical challenge or anything. Its literally just time. In Baldur's Gate 3, yesterday I was stuck in the middle of a haunted house that I was not prepared for, at all. You know what I did? I found a third-story window, had my main char scout fly through; Jaheira misty-stepped, drank a feather fall potion on the next turn, and jumped through. Minsc muscled through to the window and waited for Shadowheart, who drank an invisibility potion to escape, and then proceeded to Dimension Door together with Minsc to safety. Then we regrouped and tackled the house again, this time we were much more prepared. This for me is the pinnacle of RPG. What would I do in WotR? That's right, I'd reload 5 hours in the past because the game would lock me in, with no way of doing anything except for electric damage, or people will tell you to lOwEr ThE DifFiCulTy, as if that's the problem
@@KingslayerSrb WOTR's default difficulty is Normal. On Normal difficulty you require no previous knowledge of Pathfinder systems or the game itself. You can play the game in real time with moderate difficulty. Nobody is forcing people to bump up the difficulty settings. There are even warnings when you do that knowledge is required.
Tyranny looked good. Can’t wait for the masquerade to be released. I love how in depth the system is in Pathfinder. I kind of wish it was even more in depth even more classes and things to do in it. Though I really want a dragon lich path. I do wish there was more character customization in it but that’s ok. Enjoyed Baldurs gate 3. Loved the character development. Though when it comes to crafting character appearance the sims is king thus far, as far as I’m aware anyway. Thank you for covering what you do. It has definitely influenced what I spend my time and money on. So good job!
Hi there. I greatly prefer martial characters and still GREATLY prefer BG2 over BG1. BG2 is superior in nearly every way, in my opinion. But to each his own.
For me, DAO, Fallout2 and New Vegas, both Pillars of Eternity , both KOTOR games especially 2 and Disco Elysium are my all time favorites. BG3 and Pathfiner are aslo great, but personally I just like those games a bit more.
The crusade and kingdom managing from both Pathfinders are exactly what pulled me off from both games... the mechanics, as you said, are literally an amazing translation from D&D 3.5 to a video game, the combat mechanics are amazing, story is also pretty awesome. I even put in a few "cheat mods" when I played to skip the crusade/kingdom stuff but when I got PotR at first it was still kindda buggy and unbalanced. Now that I've finished basically every major D&D game of old, and BG3, I'm really thinking of going back to these 2 since I didn't finish them.
Is Dragon age: Origins not considered a crpg? Guess not or it should have made this list?! Bg3 made me think bout it. I loved that game! It was my best game ever for me at the time (its dark souls 1 now). I should replay it...finished it twice. But i just started octopath 2 now. Another great game.. I am not well versed in crpgs. I only played dos2/bg3 out of these. Tried pathfinder or pillars (not even sure which), but was too overwhelming for me. I didnt get what was going on with the combat at all. I gave up quickly. I may try again.
It's definitely a CRPG, but there are so many better ones that it has to make space. I might put it in a top 20 list. It's certainly better than DA2 or 3, but compared to great ones it's lacking. If you're new, you could try Fallout 1 or 2, Underrail, Planescape Torment, Arcanum, or so many others. Then again, I suppose those have pretty overwhelming mechanics too for the most part(except for Planescape Torment).
It's tough to limit this list to just 8, but I was surprised not to see Fallout: New Vegas, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Disco Elysium, Dragon Age, Mass Effect or any of the Ultima or Wizardry games etc.
Gave it a little thought and I found out I almost universally love sequels. Fallout 2 tops the list, because a friend gave me the cd in middle school and it changed my life, but bg2, wraith, pillars 2 DOS2 etc all above the originals. Makes me sad with Tyranny, an amazing game that’s so different that will never get a sequel.
The first game builds out the skeleton of the game, but budget/timelines run out, plus legacy of bad decision decisions make the game hard to improve upon, so developers call it a day and release it. Like the dogcrap kingdom management system in kingmaker, its crap, but too late to cut it out. Second game has all the basic tech built, from the beginning the developers know where the flaws of the first game are, and know how to design it, so the game is much larger and better.
Honestly im overwhelmed by the multitude of Wotr mechanics, having 0 background in DnD or Pathfinder, and im on Ps4 pro, which for inventory management is always a bit more tedious in games compared to PC, but i couldnt wait longer for a PC to play Wotr, so i got it on sale with all DLCs for 20$ and im having a blast, i level my characters myself and deal with the kingdom management, but i did adjust the difficulty and i dont care if im not playing on the hardest modes... i lowered enemy dmg and crits a bit, and put more enemies, and its excellent to me, i used to like games on hard mode and chugging through them but i cant bother anymore, i dont really see the point anymore, dont need to prove anything to myself or others so im so glad they put this much options for the difficulty and that u can respec anytime, if anyone likes crpgs or is slightly interrsted by Non-1st person RPGs, you have to try this one out
I played Tyranny, and I enjoyed it, although I really didn't know what I was doing. I have relatively little CRPG experience, although that may change in the wake of BG3.
Man I am surprised POE1 or 2 didn't make it. Also surprised Elysium did not make it, albeit, it's pretty unique. Having played Kingmaker and WOTR can't agree it's better than BG3 or that it's even close but definitely shows your CRPG heart!
I think I might be the only person that likes kingdom management in Pathfinder: Kingmaker. I could take or leave city building parts, but the time management adds a lot to me. The partially randomized deadlines add emergent elements to a game that doesn't otherwise get them from its ruleset.
the whole love of crunchy systems makes me incredibly unhappy that we never got a quality 4e crpg. It would have been absolutely perfect for a classic isometric turn based game
Would highly recommend checking out Neverwinter Nights 1 and its expansions. One of my all time favoritter games and peak bioware back when they still made and was known for amazing rpgs and writing.
Great list and amazing video as always sir. Awesome to hear you did those Wasteland 3 guides! I think either that or WotR will be my next CPRG, I never finished the former and have never played the latter at all.
Do you think underrail would make your top ten? I’m coping lol that one is so uniquely good to me, right up there with WotR. BG3 can’t get in my top 5 in good conscious, I experienced so many game breaking bugs in act 3 that really slogged the experience. Love your channel and congrats on all the progress!
PoE was my first cRPG I ever played and after playing quite a lot of games of this genre later on, I still think that Pillars of Eternity is the best. Well, at least the first one.
I'm with you in this one... In fact, I think I am in the even smaller camp that prefer PoE 1 over 2, because it was my first CRPG and has a special place in my heart. Of course, "favorite" is absolutely subjective, and I think it's good to see other people opinions and preferences
Mortismal loves them, too, he says so in many videos but just barely not enough for top 7, I guess. Fair, I think - at some points it's less about the "objective" quality but rather your attachment to the story, the art direction, the NPCs, etc. Tyranny is very original in many ways, so I can see some people slightly enjoying it more than PoE. For me, Pillars of Eternity 1 is the Best Game, with perhaps (!) Dark Souls. Even though Deadfire improved on many things, nothing beats the feeling of PoE1. I love it. The music, the tone, the story, the companions, the lore, even the health/vitality duality.
It was very boring to me. Party members are either amazing or just dull. Music is trying to mimic BG1-2 too much for the age at which the game was released. Story was very mediocre. Setting i think had some interesting quirks, but not much beyond that. And worst of all, is the ability to read people's stories by talking to them. Damn, i read them all hoping they would provide anything, but no. They are just there to fill the world otherwise still quite empty. Imo of course
i think its many peoples fav, he did say he would put it in his top 10. for my its probably my fav crpg. I think if u really like Eora and get into the world its top tier. I actually think the combat system is the best there is for a rtwp crpg, nothing comes close. building ur characters in wotr is great, but the combat was very much just buff , auto win.
Hey, I've been thinking of doing solo triple classing without lots of persuasion and sleight of hand, no karmic dice, and no save scumming on tactician. You think that will be hard? Similarly, due to my history with games like Divinity OS2 I kinda have all Larian's little loopholes down. Ironically they made it even easier than DivOS2 for what I see as loopholes. In Div you could get people to talk to npcs, and have your thief character steal but even end game it was quite limited. I also found npcs restocked less. In BG3 as long as you roll correctly (can reload if you want) you can kinda steal infinitely and they restock all the time. Like we just finished act 1 and have like 30k gold and way too many scrolls and equipment. In Div it was always smart to sneak into every battle ad get off some hits. In some ways, due to spells my friend and I had, it was pretty OP late game, but pretty fair early and mid game. In BG3 if you have a rogue Assassin this is insanely cheap. Get some Bow buffs, sneak attack, sneak attack again, and then use cunning dash to run just a few metres, teleport to camp and teleport back....rinse and repeat as much as you need to make any fight easy as heck. Funny enough, I like the loot a fair amount more than Div2 because of the unique effects, but these unique effects can stack so well that it makes one OP very quickly. All our characters have been OP especially our Barbarian and Rogue/Fighter due to jump boosts, damage boosts, sleight of hand boosts, etc. I find even though there are limits with spell slots and so on, some of the cheap things from Div2 are actually way cheaper here. I think modders will make it much harder though. I think to make it harder they would need a few more unique enemies, some diverse buffs on enemies (armor class, save throws, hp, etc.) surprise ambushes, a dark souls style autosave system maybe, reduced benefits to things like persuasion and sleight of hand (I have had like +12 to my sleight of hand since level 2), vastly increased withers prices, changes to restocking of vendors, more mages early game to fight, and no karmic dice.
We need controller support for Pillars 1/2 and Tyranny. MS needs to make it happen. They are perfect for the steam deck. Crazy as the controller works on console. I played pillars on switch and it worked flawlessly (well the controls did lol).
Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous really holds up well. Despite playing thru as a Lich, Azata and Angel I keep finding new stuff on my current playthrough. The Trickster path is a weird one. Also, I always take Ember with me. She's the best companion unlike Nenio and her side quest making me want to drink.
Where do you think Rogue Trader is going to end up? Cracking the top 7? Middling? It's really one I'm excited about but keeping my expectations in check.
If anyone wants to try a really fun CRPG you guys should hit up Pillars of Eternity 2 Deadfire. Don’t worry about the first game. I didn’t like it and you don’t really need to play it to enjoy the second game. Dead fire is one of my favorite games of all time and I really recommend it! It’s cheap and has the voices of Critical Roll in it! Like Tyranny, it’s an Obsidian classic.
I loved Tyranny but was so upset when it ended. They gave us half a game and that doesn't show appreciation for the gamers who supported them for years, and it was a mistake. Imagine the rating a full Tyranny game could get. With games like Tyranny, ratings are so important for sales. They really dropped the ball with that one.
I use to play crpg because back then it was how we have the best immersion but its been 15 years since i didnt play a crpg...maybe i should start back with bg3
I hope they would put more legendary resistances on enemies on bg3,like from the boss at the end of act 2 onwards. I mean Gale has CD 22, you cast hold monster and GG
WOTR is also arguably my favorite even over BG3. But Blackwater did it for me. I just CAN NOT beat it, and I'm too lazy to find the weapons needed to do it.
I dont super get the difficulty argument for crpgs. You just get more heinous buff stacking the more difficult you set the slider. Pf Wotr does have a more fun build system, but bg3 beats it every other category
I love how you keep boosting Tyranny. What a game.
We all have a wish that Obsidian somehow comes fully back from the lands of venture bro microloot
Tyranny has one of my favorite magic systems in all CRPGs.
boost boost raise the roof
@spaceman9599 what? Obsidian is one of the few developers who always seems to put their all into their games and you're still complaining lol.
I've been a CRPG player (I'm 50) since The Bard's Tale I and SSI Goldbox games - BG and others on this list were incredible (I actually played Wasteland I), but you're right - going back that far can make enjoying them difficult.
I have Tyranny on deck, and I'm 600 hours into BG3. I've got another 300 in Pathfinder - maybe I'll give that another run.
/shrug
Thanks for the video!
Damn, it must be quite a journey for you to see all these new titles coming out and seeing genre still standing strong.
@@davdav1370 My little brother is 45. We played RPGs when it was all text (Your Magic Missle hit for 17 damage!) and used to imagine what we're seeing today.
So yeah, it's been an incredible journey.
Of course, we're waiting for VR to catch up. :)
Tyranny is just too good. Which of my potential children I have to sacrifice to get another crpg set in that setting?
Man i wish Avowed was in Tyranny universe instead of Pillers universe .
I really like it too. It's very underrated.
it was great i agree, the only thing though was that because you could make ur own spells and skils it was very easy to break the game. i remember soling it as a rogue on the hardest setting. stil fun though.
This, so much. It's so sad that they didn't market Tyranny more, which made the chances for a sequel so low. When Tyranny (even with all the dlc) ends, it's such a cliff-hanger and if you enjoyed it, you immediately want to play a sequel. This setting is perfect!
I'd also love to see another Arcanum game, another Age of Decadence game (but with gameplay and visuals closer to Colony Ship), Disco Elysium (not by the corporate ZAUM, but rather Kurvitz), Planescape Torment, also isometric Pillars of Eternity 3 instead of Awoved /or is it Avowed?/) and probably a few others I'm forgetting right now. I can make children on an industrial scale and sacrifice them just to see it all through.
@@JediLordRevanI wish that Avowed wasn't in the making at all, and they'd start making PoE3 and Tyranny2 instead
Surprised not to see Disco Elysium on this list. I understand its fairly different in style to the more dnd like games, but its such an amazing game from a writing standpoint. Definitely my personal favorite, with Baldur’s Gate 3 being a close second.
I think it's more or less excluded from the genre here, as being more of a narrative game of some sort. I think you can call it a crpg, but with less roleplaying elements perhaps. Doesn't matter really and genres are rarely very well defined.
Not sure if Planescape: Torment was excluded for similar reasons or just didn't make the list.
For me, both above mentioned games are at the absolute top regardless of genre.
I don't think Disco Elysium would be mentioned before Planescape Torment would've been. But both of these games are more of a story sprinkled here and there with some combat tactics, rather than crpg with a good story.
What classes can you be in that game?
People say the writing is good, but I just don't get why. It struck me is something an undergrad double majoring in psychology and philosophy world write--that is, it's self-important and shallow with a veneer of profundity.
Nah, the writing is really good. It's super atmospheric and has a really literary style of it's without being pretentious imo. @@brookspn
Tyranny mention actually made me happy irl, such a gem that sadly was overlooked, underrated and almost forgotten even by genre fans.
Never could get very far into the game despite several attempts. I like the mechanics, but the story just could not grab me. It might be that the start as a leader in a conquerering army just did not click with me even if you can step away from it afterwards.
i wish they will release a sequel. enjoyed several run of Tyranny back then
i just hate how short it is
@@sleepovr i think Obsidian abandoned cRPGs honestly but with BG3's rise maybe theres hope
Yeeees, I loved tyranny, way too short but really compelling!
Always happy to see some Tyranny love. Not only is the spell system among the best of any genre, it's unique turn-of-the-iron-age setting and nuanced worldbuilding make for incresibly deep roleplaying options. If you can get past somewhat janky visuals at times and the text-heavy nature of it, it's well worth it
While your top 2 are also my own, I love seeing Tyranny on the list! It’s such a hidden gem in my opinion. Thanks for this great list
Divinity Original Sin EE got me into the genre, on PS4 at that. Absolutely love that game.
But what pushed me over the edge was Pathfinder WotR. This channel was why I bought the game when it officially launched on PC and I never looked back. It took me doing a lot of research on it to fully grasp the game but when I did, it opened up and I love it even more now.
Keep up the great work and will be a fan for as long as the channel exists!
I have incredibly found memory of playing Baldur's Gate 2. Definitely agree that the gameplay might be outdated , as the gameplay interface isn't particularly user friendly. But the character depth and party banter was easily my favorite part of the game. Playing the game genuinely felt like I grew with the party members. The conflict that occurs when team members have disagreements. The bond that was formed through the trials. I really liked it. Also, I'm not particularly fond of romance, but I remember feeling inclined to romance one character, only to realize later that I actually respected Jaheira as a character, and wound up in a romance with her. It was a very interesting experience. While not all romances are written equally, I thought Jaheira's personal quest line was exceptional.
I recall her being notoriously hard (and possibly buggy in addition to that?) to romance (possibly the hardest in any game/CRPG). Some fan patches or Enhanced Edition may have changed that though.
mortym, i just wanna let you know im truly grateful for the videos you put out; i probably never would've considered in a million years playing a CRPG until i saw your crpgs for beginners video, which led to me finishing Shadowrun Returns then, and now i'm diving headfirst into BG1 (and yes your analytics are correct, i probably watched that guide 3 times over just to understand the systems haha). but seriously, your perspective entertains & helps a lot of of us here. i think it was in the bg1 beginner guide that you said there's no shame in dropping the difficulty to a more comfortable spot when you paid for the game--somehow i had never considered that--and it's helped me to enjoy myself much more when playing these types of games, given that im much newer to them, so thank you. 🙂
You probably get this a lot, but your reviews and video breakdowns have led me to purchase some of these games and I have been having so much fun. I can't wait to try out WotR once I am finished with BG3 because I want to experience the more challenging system that it offers.
I don't have anything of value to add so I'll just say this: your channel has become my favourite on youtube. I can see your passion for (c)rpgs oozing from every video of yours. Watching you always makes my day better. Truly, thank you so much.
Tyranny is such an underated gem.
My first crpg was pillars of eternity. I remember playing it years back and absolutely loving it!
Dragon Age Origins will always be my favourite of the genre. Incredible characters, well written dialogues, generic but enjoyable story, can be completed in a "short" time (for CRPG standards) and the game looks beautiful even now
It was great, but i think what held it back was gameplay. Fights and systems were really bland and shallow even at its era. Loved the game but i dont think it deserves top10 award except maybe for being popular
@@Thalaranthey probably top 1 for me strictly due to nostalgia. I remember it to this day and played it what 20 years ago.
I still play it to this day.
I played wasteland 3 because of this channel mention as one of your favorites and I am glad I did! I loved it! Thanks for putting it on your channel
I really liked pathfinder kingmaker, the only problem for me was that it was very combat focused. There were times when you enter a cave and you had combat encounters every ten meters.
Kingmaker was amazing but I hated the last dungeon more than anything to ever exist
@@MichaelWard-le1ck they fixed it. also just play kineticist and skip every combat xD that class gets stupid op later on and i'd just place aoe on ground and then hit them with another one and watch them die slowly in clouds of burning steam on top of lava x)
@@MichaelWard-le1ck You'll know someone is a Kingmaker player if hearing the words 'Wild Hunt Monarch' sends them into convulsions. A whole lot easier the second time around with adequate preparation and foreknowledge but it was absolutely brutal when we all played it at launch.
@@pervognsen_bitwise mandragora swarm
I have a lot of love for Pillars of Eternity, especially for the first one. There was something so captivatingly dark about the world there, and their take on deities was refreshing! It took risks and it mostly paid off! I love the original Baldurs greatly, but Pillars absolutely became one of the best RPGs I've ever played!
I ultimately prefer the first, too.
Pillars has a great atmosphere, neat mechanics and horrific writing. It ruins the game for me sadly.
KOTOR and NWN2 top my list but maybe I'm just nostalgic for old BioWare and Obsidian. Can't wait to try out Tyranny!
If you love obsidian, you won't be disappointed with pillars of eternity or Tyranny. Its essentially isometric callbacks to the crpgs of old. Kotor ii is still my favorite of all time, but pillars of eternity has moved to number two & Tyranny 3 due to obsidian's character development, world buildin & general story tellin'.
Always cool to see fans of kotor & nvn
Pathfinder WotR is mine favored too, but I personally have enjoyed the Kingmaker more, I have even enjoyed the kingdom management much more than the crusade minigame :). Also I would add Dragon age origin, which is I would say the most simplified crpg to get into.
Interesting. I’ve watched a few rpg videos that bashed king maker for being boring. That turned me off of it.
@@majorgear1021 It depends, king maker is realtime only, so some people may not like it just from that, but I personally find kingmaker story and companions better than of WotR.
Great list, and obviously it's down to personal choice which is totally fine - but I'm somewhat surprised that Planescape Torment didn't make it in there!
Really excited to see this list and how things have changed. Your ability to finish so many of these games is amazing.
BTW Tyranny fans Malazan is a book series I think you guys would like, a LOT of similarities
thank you! will check it out.
If Tyranny didn't end so abruptly, it might be my favorite of all time. I loved my brief time with game and would love to see it finished some time in the future. Great list, btw. Really enjoyed it.
I had no idea this was originally a divinity lore channel, I love Divinity. I’m definitely going through your backlog
Mortismal's 7 favorite cRPGS? What a great proposition. It's so unfortunate that I already have at least 3 games on my list-to-come while I'm finishing Sea of stars. Thank you for your interesting opinions!
What CRPGs saved for me is turn-based combat. I was always too dumb to play RTwP right so allies were running in AoE spells or enemies were on completely different positions when my caster finished his spell or party members die suddenly because of damage spikes and I react to that like Slowpoke and so on. So after BG3 I'd like to take a closer look on the Divinity and Pathfinder games (again). And also there's Rogue Trader at the end of the year. (Oh, and Pillars of Eternity 2 has also turn-based combat as far as I remember correctly)
The true Aeon ending from WoTR gives me chills to this day! Also, PathFinder WoTR was how i found out about your channel!
Just found your channel recently, like within the past month. Been watching some old vids and all your new vids. Thanks for this video!
I was not that surprised to see Pathfinder at the top, because I've been talking with a friend about it being a little better than BG3 in the story at least, whoever, to see WotR instead of kingmaker truly amazes me, I honestly couldn't keep playing WotR, but kingmaker to this day has my heart as the best fantasy story I've seen.
Nice list. Mine goes a bit more old school but then again I'm probably older. Of course, it depends on how you define the "c" in CPRG. Computer Role Playing Game? Or Classic Role Playing Game? I'm going with "classic", otherwise Skyrim, Disco Elysium and Mass Effect 2 are on this list. But using the classic definition it's probably something like this:
- Ultima 7 The Black Gate - opening still gives me chills
- BG2 - epic
- Dragon Age: Origins - some of the best moral quests despite some gameplay jankies. Barely beats out Tyranny since that one kind of ends abruptly.
- Planescape Torment - best RPG story ever
- KOTOR 1 - great story and NPCs. KOTOR 2 could have been here if not for the bugs.
- BG3 - epic, part 2
- Pathfinder WotW - mythic paths elevate this into sheer greatness
so many of these, are also on my top 7 :)
I am glad someone else enjoyed Tyranny.
Mortismal, what do you think, will Pathfinder/Paizo (maybe with another colab. with Owlcat again) try to make its own triple A "BG3" game? We know about the rivalries between Paizo and WoTC, and if i were Paizo, i would deffinately try to make some game to rival the BG3 and probe my way into the mainstream.
Paizo absolutely needs to back more Pathfinder/Starfinder games. I found the Faerun setting so boring compared to Golarion.
They've stated publicly they're actively looking for partners to make video games for them, so yeah I think we'll continue to see stuff in that regard
Before I watch the video, Tyranny in the thumbnail is AMAZING. Man I really liked that game in the short amount of time I spent on it! And I bet Wasteland 3 is on this list!
Wasteland 3 was my 1st crpg and i loved it. Consider it one of fav games ever. It got me try others like DOS which was also great and solasta I've been playing recently.
Tyranny! Its so amazing and so underrated. Glad to see some rep.
No pillars of eternity? PoE II is one of my favorite games of all time, the game is simply great and memorable.
nice list i really enjoyed all of these games , and i like Wrath more as Bg3 as well. This channel is the reason why i tried this type of games tbh. Thx for that!
Just the fact that in WOTR the fun begins at level 12, build wise, while BG3 has a level cap of 12 is a huge difference. WOTRs high level fights aren't "break it with a single spell", it's "break it with a single build", bouncing synergies off each other.
I mean one could argue early levels in WOTR are even more impactful because you get a lot of value and key feats. Also I feel like WOTR in terms of story starts strong and remains strong until the end where as BG3's story fizzles out horrifically in Act 3.
If you got a right build in WOTR, you can keep steamrolling everything blindfolded, except on unfair, maybe. Just spend 5 minutes at the beggining of every dungeon buffing (50 buffs on average at the endgame, really?), and then click on whatever and it dies. If you`re a caster, use those two favourite spells instead and you`ll win.
Bg3 is much easier, sure, but somehow i put more thought into actual tactics in battle, like where to stand and what to use, then WOTR, where it`s all about build strategy, and in actual fight you just click aoutoattack (or Sirocco/Icy prison/Higher command/whatever you`re specced for) in most cases.
Tyranny was actually my first CRPG. I was always a console player growing up and I'd never been interested in games without gamepad support.
But someone recommended it and i decided to pick it up and had a blast. Great narrative and gameplay. IIRC the ending was lackluster, setting up a sequel we'll never see
Wasn't until DoS2 that i played another and its still one of my favourite games of all time, and by far the best coop experience I've had
Part of me wants so badly for there to be a cRPG renaissance and we just get a bunch of high quality games in the genre over the next few years. But, part of me also thinks that the nicheness is what made BG3 so big. Nobody expected a cRPG to take over the world, but the "Dude, I know this isn't you kind of game but you *have* to try it. At least hope into multiplayer with me to check it out" word of mouth spread has definitely played a part in it's popularity as well.
Also, this made me want to go back and play Tyranny again. Such a hidden gem that deserves way more credit than it has gotten. Maybe Obsidian will surprise us once they're done with Avowed and Outer Worlds 2? A guy can hope! And I'm looking forward to seeing what Owlcat does with Rogue Trader. I've played the beta a couple of times just to see the progress, but I can't wait to get my hands on the full release and hopefully bury 100+ hours into yet another game this year.
265K subscribers! You've earned it with the work you put in. Keep up the good work!
A man of resounding taste, not a single bad take in this video, very affirming of my CRPG problem
Fallout 1, Planescape torment, Pillars of Eternity, Dragon age 2, Pathfinder (both),
Hell yeah! Wasteland 3 baby! Such a banger.
For BG 1 Mort , id say i got into it on my own cause id had it sitting in my library for ages. Every other one of bought since then i attribute to all your videos.
I put WOTR at the top of my list for similar reasons, the level of flexibility and customisation you can do with the difficulty gives the game way more replay factor, BG3 isn't hugely difficult, where as with Pathfinders difficulty settings you can really make a challenging playthrough.
And for me no Pathfinder game will ever make the list, because of the powergaming feel they have. I want to not be forced into some build just because of the power creep. And to top it off I was very offput with both Pathfinder stories by Owlcat. They felt very tropey.
@@O-D-XI agree entierly. Having to pay multiple feat taxes, apply dozens of buffs before each battles and having to dip in 5 different classes made the game a chore to me. Especially since the enemies get ultra bloated stats at higher difficulty levels.
Man both commenters missed the whole point of difficulty. Bg3 is so easy, I was kinda disappointed that there was no iron man mode only to realize it didn't need one because the chance of death in 0.
@@iandevine3063 so enlighten us, what is the actual difficulty in WotR?
- You have to learn which of the stuff is crap (95%), and what is OP (5%), that's one. Evidence: there are hundreds (if not thousands) of possible choices, but all builds have basically a couple of same flavors. There is not a single person on this earth who has unironically played a Defender of the True Faith in WoTR, or has taken a full plate while unmounted, or has targeted some "standard" AC when they could target touch AC etc. These things might as well not exist, and again, 95% of the options are like that, not because they're bad compared to OP stuff, but because they don't work even on normal due to stat bloat without reloading (see next points)
- Then, you have to know in advance what each encounter is. If you don't, you're screwed and have to reload to a previous point. Evidence: Blackwater, Enigma, etc.
- Then, you have to reload heavily if dices screw you over. Watch literally any higher-difficulty playthrough on TH-cam, they are full of reloads. People have minmaxed builds, and they reload ad infinitum, until they get a favorable roll. I can post a couple of such "famous" (in WotR circles) youtubers, but everyone can find these for themselves easily. How the heck is that fun?
None of what I listed is especially difficult, it just requires excess free time. It's not like there is any thinking involved, or creativity, a physical challenge or anything. Its literally just time. In Baldur's Gate 3, yesterday I was stuck in the middle of a haunted house that I was not prepared for, at all. You know what I did? I found a third-story window, had my main char scout fly through; Jaheira misty-stepped, drank a feather fall potion on the next turn, and jumped through. Minsc muscled through to the window and waited for Shadowheart, who drank an invisibility potion to escape, and then proceeded to Dimension Door together with Minsc to safety. Then we regrouped and tackled the house again, this time we were much more prepared. This for me is the pinnacle of RPG. What would I do in WotR? That's right, I'd reload 5 hours in the past because the game would lock me in, with no way of doing anything except for electric damage, or people will tell you to lOwEr ThE DifFiCulTy, as if that's the problem
@@KingslayerSrb WOTR's default difficulty is Normal. On Normal difficulty you require no previous knowledge of Pathfinder systems or the game itself. You can play the game in real time with moderate difficulty. Nobody is forcing people to bump up the difficulty settings. There are even warnings when you do that knowledge is required.
Tyranny looked good. Can’t wait for the masquerade to be released. I love how in depth the system is in Pathfinder. I kind of wish it was even more in depth even more classes and things to do in it. Though I really want a dragon lich path. I do wish there was more character customization in it but that’s ok. Enjoyed Baldurs gate 3. Loved the character development. Though when it comes to crafting character appearance the sims is king thus far, as far as I’m aware anyway. Thank you for covering what you do. It has definitely influenced what I spend my time and money on. So good job!
I 100% your videos like you 100% games for your reviews. Keep up the good work!
Mortym, try out Voidspire Tactics, Alvora Tactics and Horizon's Gate. All three will be an instant addition to this list.
Whether you prefer BG1 or BG2 largely depends on whether you prefer martial characters or spellcasters 😉
You could basically solo bg2 using fog of war fireballs and cloudkills. Green dragon? Cloudkill. Demogorgon? Cloudkill. :D
Hi there. I greatly prefer martial characters and still GREATLY prefer BG2 over BG1. BG2 is superior in nearly every way, in my opinion. But to each his own.
You are right but fireball was indeed strong in Bg1. It could quickly resolve 90% of the fights lol
For me, DAO, Fallout2 and New Vegas, both Pillars of Eternity , both KOTOR games especially 2 and Disco Elysium are my all time favorites. BG3 and Pathfiner are aslo great, but personally I just like those games a bit more.
The crusade and kingdom managing from both Pathfinders are exactly what pulled me off from both games... the mechanics, as you said, are literally an amazing translation from D&D 3.5 to a video game, the combat mechanics are amazing, story is also pretty awesome.
I even put in a few "cheat mods" when I played to skip the crusade/kingdom stuff but when I got PotR at first it was still kindda buggy and unbalanced. Now that I've finished basically every major D&D game of old, and BG3, I'm really thinking of going back to these 2 since I didn't finish them.
Good list and good comments. So sad I cannot find a single game here which I wouldnt have played already!!
It would be nice for you to make a video on why Tyranny was so underlook and underaprreciated!
Honestly, I really loved the crusade system in wrath.
Great video Mort. Love your content and all the time you put into these games and the videos you make. Keep up the great work!
Is Dragon age: Origins not considered a crpg? Guess not or it should have made this list?!
Bg3 made me think bout it. I loved that game! It was my best game ever for me at the time (its dark souls 1 now). I should replay it...finished it twice. But i just started octopath 2 now. Another great game..
I am not well versed in crpgs. I only played dos2/bg3 out of these. Tried pathfinder or pillars (not even sure which), but was too overwhelming for me. I didnt get what was going on with the combat at all. I gave up quickly. I may try again.
It's definitely a CRPG, but there are so many better ones that it has to make space. I might put it in a top 20 list. It's certainly better than DA2 or 3, but compared to great ones it's lacking.
If you're new, you could try Fallout 1 or 2, Underrail, Planescape Torment, Arcanum, or so many others. Then again, I suppose those have pretty overwhelming mechanics too for the most part(except for Planescape Torment).
My kind of list. Tyranny was my biggest RPG surprise this year. Truly unique setup and really sad it didn't sell enough copies to warrant a sequel.
The top 3 games of this video are the same order I would put them into.
Solo BG3 run, huh? Can it be done? Will stay tuned for this.
It can definitely be done, people already have
It's tough to limit this list to just 8, but I was surprised not to see Fallout: New Vegas, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Disco Elysium, Dragon Age, Mass Effect or any of the Ultima or Wizardry games etc.
Gave it a little thought and I found out I almost universally love sequels. Fallout 2 tops the list, because a friend gave me the cd in middle school and it changed my life, but bg2, wraith, pillars 2 DOS2 etc all above the originals.
Makes me sad with Tyranny, an amazing game that’s so different that will never get a sequel.
The first game builds out the skeleton of the game, but budget/timelines run out, plus legacy of bad decision decisions make the game hard to improve upon, so developers call it a day and release it. Like the dogcrap kingdom management system in kingmaker, its crap, but too late to cut it out.
Second game has all the basic tech built, from the beginning the developers know where the flaws of the first game are, and know how to design it, so the game is much larger and better.
I actually did start playing wrath I’d the righteous recently since it was on sale - definitely up there for me personally in terms of favorite CRPGs
Pathfinder WOTR, Baldur's Gate 3, Wasteland 3 and Baldur's 2 Gate are the GOATS of CRPGs!!
would you say that your favourite crpgs are based heavily on how difficult it can be for you? fantastic video, love your content. sincerely CG
More about them having options and depth than being difficult
Honestly im overwhelmed by the multitude of Wotr mechanics, having 0 background in DnD or Pathfinder, and im on Ps4 pro, which for inventory management is always a bit more tedious in games compared to PC, but i couldnt wait longer for a PC to play Wotr, so i got it on sale with all DLCs for 20$ and im having a blast, i level my characters myself and deal with the kingdom management, but i did adjust the difficulty and i dont care if im not playing on the hardest modes... i lowered enemy dmg and crits a bit, and put more enemies, and its excellent to me, i used to like games on hard mode and chugging through them but i cant bother anymore, i dont really see the point anymore, dont need to prove anything to myself or others so im so glad they put this much options for the difficulty and that u can respec anytime, if anyone likes crpgs or is slightly interrsted by Non-1st person RPGs, you have to try this one out
I played Tyranny, and I enjoyed it, although I really didn't know what I was doing. I have relatively little CRPG experience, although that may change in the wake of BG3.
Man I am surprised POE1 or 2 didn't make it. Also surprised Elysium did not make it, albeit, it's pretty unique. Having played Kingmaker and WOTR can't agree it's better than BG3 or that it's even close but definitely shows your CRPG heart!
Wasteland 3 was a sleeper hit, it never got the recognition it deserved. Just a fun all around game.
I think I might be the only person that likes kingdom management in Pathfinder: Kingmaker. I could take or leave city building parts, but the time management adds a lot to me. The partially randomized deadlines add emergent elements to a game that doesn't otherwise get them from its ruleset.
the whole love of crunchy systems makes me incredibly unhappy that we never got a quality 4e crpg. It would have been absolutely perfect for a classic isometric turn based game
Pathfinder you say? A man of taste and culture I see.
One of my greatest frustrations with cRPGs is that I’m exclusively a console gamer and a lot of times these games don’t make their way to the console.
Great list! The only thing missing here for me is Planescape Torment, arguably the best written game of all time.
Would highly recommend checking out Neverwinter Nights 1 and its expansions. One of my all time favoritter games and peak bioware back when they still made and was known for amazing rpgs and writing.
I have, its a lot of fun yeah
Great list and amazing video as always sir. Awesome to hear you did those Wasteland 3 guides! I think either that or WotR will be my next CPRG, I never finished the former and have never played the latter at all.
Surprised you didn’t replace Tyranny or Masquerade with Planescape Torment. That was such a cool story.
Had you played it? What did you think if so?
I've played it and covered it, though it was one of my earlier videos. Incredible story, terrible gameplay would be the quick version lol
Do you think underrail would make your top ten?
I’m coping lol that one is so uniquely good to me, right up there with WotR.
BG3 can’t get in my top 5 in good conscious, I experienced so many game breaking bugs in act 3 that really slogged the experience.
Love your channel and congrats on all the progress!
Yeah for sure lol
How has pillars of eternity 1/2 not made its way on here? I seem to be in a very small camp of people who prefer PoE
PoE was my first cRPG I ever played and after playing quite a lot of games of this genre later on, I still think that Pillars of Eternity is the best. Well, at least the first one.
I'm with you in this one... In fact, I think I am in the even smaller camp that prefer PoE 1 over 2, because it was my first CRPG and has a special place in my heart.
Of course, "favorite" is absolutely subjective, and I think it's good to see other people opinions and preferences
Mortismal loves them, too, he says so in many videos but just barely not enough for top 7, I guess. Fair, I think - at some points it's less about the "objective" quality but rather your attachment to the story, the art direction, the NPCs, etc. Tyranny is very original in many ways, so I can see some people slightly enjoying it more than PoE.
For me, Pillars of Eternity 1 is the Best Game, with perhaps (!) Dark Souls. Even though Deadfire improved on many things, nothing beats the feeling of PoE1. I love it. The music, the tone, the story, the companions, the lore, even the health/vitality duality.
It was very boring to me. Party members are either amazing or just dull. Music is trying to mimic BG1-2 too much for the age at which the game was released. Story was very mediocre. Setting i think had some interesting quirks, but not much beyond that. And worst of all, is the ability to read people's stories by talking to them. Damn, i read them all hoping they would provide anything, but no. They are just there to fill the world otherwise still quite empty. Imo of course
i think its many peoples fav, he did say he would put it in his top 10. for my its probably my fav crpg. I think if u really like Eora and get into the world its top tier. I actually think the combat system is the best there is for a rtwp crpg, nothing comes close. building ur characters in wotr is great, but the combat was very much just buff , auto win.
Why no planescape torment? :)
Because I don't enjoy playing it, the story and characters are incredible but the gameplay is just not fun for me.
Hey, I've been thinking of doing solo triple classing without lots of persuasion and sleight of hand, no karmic dice, and no save scumming on tactician. You think that will be hard?
Similarly, due to my history with games like Divinity OS2 I kinda have all Larian's little loopholes down. Ironically they made it even easier than DivOS2 for what I see as loopholes.
In Div you could get people to talk to npcs, and have your thief character steal but even end game it was quite limited. I also found npcs restocked less. In BG3 as long as you roll correctly (can reload if you want) you can kinda steal infinitely and they restock all the time. Like we just finished act 1 and have like 30k gold and way too many scrolls and equipment.
In Div it was always smart to sneak into every battle ad get off some hits. In some ways, due to spells my friend and I had, it was pretty OP late game, but pretty fair early and mid game. In BG3 if you have a rogue Assassin this is insanely cheap. Get some Bow buffs, sneak attack, sneak attack again, and then use cunning dash to run just a few metres, teleport to camp and teleport back....rinse and repeat as much as you need to make any fight easy as heck.
Funny enough, I like the loot a fair amount more than Div2 because of the unique effects, but these unique effects can stack so well that it makes one OP very quickly. All our characters have been OP especially our Barbarian and Rogue/Fighter due to jump boosts, damage boosts, sleight of hand boosts, etc.
I find even though there are limits with spell slots and so on, some of the cheap things from Div2 are actually way cheaper here. I think modders will make it much harder though.
I think to make it harder they would need a few more unique enemies, some diverse buffs on enemies (armor class, save throws, hp, etc.) surprise ambushes, a dark souls style autosave system maybe, reduced benefits to things like persuasion and sleight of hand (I have had like +12 to my sleight of hand since level 2), vastly increased withers prices, changes to restocking of vendors, more mages early game to fight, and no karmic dice.
We need controller support for Pillars 1/2 and Tyranny. MS needs to make it happen. They are perfect for the steam deck. Crazy as the controller works on console. I played pillars on switch and it worked flawlessly (well the controls did lol).
Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous really holds up well. Despite playing thru as a Lich, Azata and Angel I keep finding new stuff on my current playthrough. The Trickster path is a weird one. Also, I always take Ember with me. She's the best companion unlike Nenio and her side quest making me want to drink.
Where do you think Rogue Trader is going to end up? Cracking the top 7? Middling? It's really one I'm excited about but keeping my expectations in check.
I've enjoyed what I've played of it, we'll wait and see how the full release pans out
If anyone wants to try a really fun CRPG you guys should hit up Pillars of Eternity 2 Deadfire.
Don’t worry about the first game. I didn’t like it and you don’t really need to play it to enjoy the second game.
Dead fire is one of my favorite games of all time and I really recommend it! It’s cheap and has the voices of Critical Roll in it! Like Tyranny, it’s an Obsidian classic.
I loved tyranny. Thank you for mentioning it.
I loved Tyranny but was so upset when it ended. They gave us half a game and that doesn't show appreciation for the gamers who supported them for years, and it was a mistake. Imagine the rating a full Tyranny game could get. With games like Tyranny, ratings are so important for sales. They really dropped the ball with that one.
Well, i bought wasteland 3 in an steam sale, so I'm gonna test how good it is!
Tyranny has absolutely been slept on.
I use to play crpg because back then it was how we have the best immersion but its been 15 years since i didnt play a crpg...maybe i should start back with bg3
i'd love to play wrath of righteous using the baldurs gate 3 system
Tyranny, Planescape: Torment, Pathfinder WotR, Disco Elysium and Vampire: Bloodlines are probably my top five (not in order).
I'd have to agree, WOTR remains top for me too, after going few times over BG3.
Maybe I'm blinded by nostalgia, but Arcanum is always gonna be high up for me because it was the introduction to the genre for me
I hope they would put more legendary resistances on enemies on bg3,like from the boss at the end of act 2 onwards. I mean Gale has CD 22, you cast hold monster and GG
WOTR is also arguably my favorite even over BG3. But Blackwater did it for me. I just CAN NOT beat it, and I'm too lazy to find the weapons needed to do it.
I dont super get the difficulty argument for crpgs. You just get more heinous buff stacking the more difficult you set the slider.
Pf Wotr does have a more fun build system, but bg3 beats it every other category
Wrath of the Righteous is janky as &#$! but the story, companions, and soundtrack kept me playing over and over.
I would add BG2, Mask of the betrayer (NWN2 expansion) and DA origins but I haven't played half of those yet, cause I'm always 3-5 years late
What about Pillars of Eternity and Neverwinter Nights? Those two are CRPG classics.