Did y’all see Freen look around to make sure no one was looking at the Hoka event, and then secretly gave several air kisses to Becky? That was shipper gold!
When it came to Becky clearing up the rumors, she was definitely ignoring Freen’s name in the comments. A lot of people were throwing Freen’s name out to her but she really just wanted to address the rumors of the everyone but Freen. It was really something to get to watch it live. A lot of people praised her for being brave enough to speak up.
They did not start dating until December 2021 or even beginning of January 2022. The live videos of 2021 are actually them being close friends and holding to admit their crush on each other. If you look at Freen in the 2021 live videos, you will see how she is trying to keep her composure. On the other hand Becky is full on flirting like crazy :). I am sure that Freen was concerned to start anything with Becky because of her age, possibility of losing the friendship and their GAP project (since it was the GAP workshop era). On January 2022 something changed. They started their romantic relationship. That is also why they celebrated their first anniversary in the beginning of January 2023 :) I wish them a looooong journey of love. They deserve all the good things this life has to offer. There is really no more need to scrutinize whether they are together or not. Because they are :) I just hope that all this fame and work tempo don't get in the way of their happiness.
So Glad You Made Another Freenbecky One. Just My Personal Opinion Aside From All The Drama TikTok Created Around Freens Confession Of Having A Lover, From My Personal Point Of View, And Respectfully I Believe Is Becky. To Me I Can't Think Of Anybody Else Cus Think About This, They Were Together In Valentines Day, Freen Has A Dior Ring That Becky Gave Her On Her Birthday That She Wears Often, They Share Clothing, They Flirt And Kiss Off Cam ect. Like If Is Somebody Else I'm Cool Whit It, Like Let My Girl Be Happy, But Honestly They Themselves Have Given So Many Clues Recently That I Strongly Believe They Are In Fact Each Other's Partner. Cus To Me If She Had A Partner It Has To Be The Most Non Jealous Person In These World, Cus Like The Things Freenbecky Be Doing Would Have Me Rolling Around In The Floor If I Was The Lover Of One Of Them. But Well See, I Strongly Believe Is Is Becky, But If It's Not I'll Be Cool. Like I Said I Just Want Them To Be Happy.
Also, they had a live convo where freen was driving home and she said it was traffic then becky asked her to just go to her condo coz it's near. Without 2nd thought freen said okay, like as if she has her clothes there at Becky's house so it's okay for her to just stay the night there. Coz if I'm free. I'll be like, girl I don't have extra clothes with me blah blah.
Also From A Fan Service Perspective: People Please Realize It Is In Fact Not Just Fan Service. You Can't Fake Chemistry And Confort Whit Someone. When You Genuinely Don't Like Someone Or Don't Feel Comfortable Enough Whit Them Your Not Gonna Act Like This Two Act When There Together. There's Obviously A Lever Of Comfort And Understanding That You Only Achieve When You've Spend Enough Time Whit Somebody. There Body's React To Each Other. This Is Another Point That Makes Me Strongly Believe Their Together, We've Seen This Even In Some Scenes From GAP, How Their Eyes Dilated, How Their Skin Gets Goosebumps. How They Get To Carried Away In Some Scenes. All This Things Don't Just Happened Whit A Random Ass Person, Neither Can You Fake This Reactions From Your Body.
Your so right. Why would you admit that your in a relationship and your happy. But then says I haven't met my soulmate yet! Shit! I'd be pissed off. And also I agree with you on the part where, I think they're just waiting for the right time to come out as a couple. Because of age, and I think they know that if they come out now. They won't have any privacy left. Especially the fact that their careers rightnow just shot up to the roof. They can barely go anywhere without anyone taking pictures or videos. Alot of fans gone crazy. I'm happy just seeing them together and happy. If they're together for real, then I'm happy for them too. I'm just having fun and admiring what they have.
They’re so busy being with each other. They would be so lucky if their partners are that patient and considerate to wait for their free time. And they both have a live interview or TikTok I think where they said that they’re single.
Seeing Freenbecky on The Gap has put me in a chokehold sense you introduced them to us. I have been in a continuous rabbit hole about them and Englot. An I don't ever want to come out of it lol. Both couples have so much chemistry it's crazy. The more they semi hide and then show a little something the more we ship them lol. I love it here.
I think they are more than friends, they just havent put a tag on their relationship yet. What im sure of is everything we see between them comes natural, their bodies dont lie. Sorry about my english.
Nah cuz if Freen sayin she got somebody, Beck wouldve cleared their ship when she went down that rabbit hole! I wouldn't want to be with someone if they over here flirting and teasing someone else nonstop and no lines are being drawn. I'll be shocked of they aint together ngl
last sentence!! idc what people say about the whole shipping thing in the industry, just because it's exposed to public it doesn't mean their feelings for each other aren't real. If there's one thing that's hard to believe is they don't have feelings beyond friends for each other.
hello again, another correction about live where freen actually speak with, many fans said food delivery, and what becky almost say is the street/the condo where their live. another fans said it actually staff give their script for GAP the series (hasn't released yet) and freen ask them to put on table and becky almost spoil it, because in their next minute if you watch whole live they were both shocked and quickly hid the papers.
So when I worked in the industry and a lot of celebrities are doing red carpets or trying to get actors to spill spoilers their agent would pat them on the hip, back, or ass where the audience would see to alert the artist that they are trending into that territory and to watch their words. I saw it so much so I asked the publicist of the actor who played Tormund Giants bane broke it down for me each tap or rub means something specific. After that I started noticing it everywhere like a secret language. I just be trying to figure out what Becky and Freen signals mean.
You have to look into the audience who they winking at they winking to their bf gf along with liking each other? I think they like multiple people that they both not name and each other. Lisa from black pink and zack tabudlo ? They love their music ?
And there was a blond boy taking pictures in videos with freen he sits next to mc in audience looking like a Aron Carter look alike with NY hat they wear NY hats alot she has a NY bag her and becky both used that bag in photos and when becky went to hospital freen had that bag.
Hey Nikki I just seen this while I was rewatching what I missed on Live and decided to jump over and give it a like and bump your numbers I hope your having a awesome day 💯❤🔥
This is good, haha, I'm not a shipper but I'm asian, I guess its good to share my own pov about your ship, the thing with freen and becky is that even those people (like me) who's not a shipper will think twice because of their actions and body language, what i mean is that if they are sister, those sweetness and fan service will not be so awkward and so reserve right? They are the one who's giving malice to their own actions and body languaeg, that's why you just gonna think there is really something! 😂
Yo I love your content and imma about to watch your reaction because yes to all of em lol. Also, if Becky is not with Freen then whoever she is with is a strong person because whew chilllle
Could you react to Secret Crush on You? Its a BL, I only watched it bc Freenbeck but then I really enjoyed it. They are all sooooo cute and funny. Heng (Kirk on gap), Nam (Jim on Gap) and freenbeck are there
Hi good day i really like youre point of view about freenbecky, but if you have time try to watch there moments w/out camera their you can really say whats the truth, eyes cant lie, eyes is the door to youre suol, And they even share lollipops, i think "bfriends/sister never do that, sharing 1 lollipop canday... try to watch their moments, they are so sweet even the GAP have'nt started yet..
I don’t know who they are dating and I don’t really care tbh but I find it weird that they will ship Becky and Freen with 30 different guys when these two are literally always together. Maybe, they are just friends but c’mon!! Acting like a relationship between these two isn’t possible it’s sort of weird. Like they like the idea of GL’s but not the reality if Freenbeck is a thing. Recently found your channel and I’m obsessed 🫶🏽 keep it up 👍🏽
i agree with you 100% i think freen and becky are together in real life but even if they are not i will still ship them even if they have different partners
Hello There is a tiktok of someone asking her what she looks for in a man? Becky's reply, in such a sexy mature, etc. way" I'm not lookin for a man! Let's start there!!!
I couldn't get behind them in SCOY because Becky was so young like 18/19 I think but filmed when she was 17/18 it's hella awkward when I'm so much older. That's cringy as hell. I enjoy their interactions because I've watched their journey grow like my little siblings but that's as far as I go.
It would be nice to see them together as a couple..but here is my view...i feel like at some point FreenBecky became more than friends but less than lovers...i feel like intimate stuff is happening between them, cause of their body language..but if they come out for any reason that might be and said we have our separate partners...i will be more than happy...i ship them but i don't care that much to be honest.
That chick on stage with her check her out that is a chick that had personal interview at end of this video with the one on one with freen in a separate interview. The lady that interviewed freen with one on one . And the chick with chick on stage too they reveal it could be that chick. And is that not lisa from black pink she was following them through series check out all the black pink videos of Lisa mimicking everything with her crew. Look into that it could be lisa she was in background of pictures one with freen on her lap one with the blond boy photographer that took all the pictures while that chick in audience at events they had their cameras next to mc which is the one asking questions by 📷 🤳 📹 🎥 is it just me or did she go to black pink concert with becky to see her they talked while becky 👀 watched I think they with others but keeping that low key why becky sing zack taboudlo songs all time? And freen likes black pink songs they low key. It might be just me so I think they poly they like each other and others too. They love all love is love.
The only way a guy would be ok with Freen flirting and spending time with Becky is if he knew it was all acting / fanservice AND if he was part of IDF or Gap production. They could also hide this person from the public if he traveled along to appearances. This guy would be ok with things because he benefits from Freenbecky. These are the reasons many fans throw out the manes - Heng, Saint and Seng. I have no idea. I think we are wrong to necessarily expect this guy (if he even exists) to be jealous. He may be right there with them. My God, look at Freen. She’s 24, who would t want to date her??
@@theunsolicitedtruth not that I believe one word of this! How is there even time for another relationship other than Becky. Freen is so whipped by her and must be at her beckon-call
The translator in Kmusify was kinda meh.....The soul mate question freen actaully said "i believe there is soulmates, i just dont know if we have or havent met yet" Freen did not say say no not yet FReen wished she could be invisible so she can go anywhere she wants
We know buiar and reis not together for real. I dont know with the Asian folks. No disrespect but I don't understand Asian culture. I'm not sure how seriously they the actresses take the ships. I watched a few charlotte engfa vids and freen and Becky. Here's my breakdown. I don't know at all with Becky and freen. I literally don't know. But engfa definitely likes Charlotte and I think Charlotte likes engfa but I don't know if Charlotte wants to be in a relationship she's low key having fun but afraid. Afraid of a new life afraid engfa won't stay faithful because it seems EVERYONE female and male love engfa lol. You started talking bout it. I'm sorry sis I can tell with American even central and south American. The Asians because there are several differences in culture we all different makes the world most interesting.
Did y’all see Freen look around to make sure no one was looking at the Hoka event, and then secretly gave several air kisses to Becky? That was shipper gold!
Yep!
When it came to Becky clearing up the rumors, she was definitely ignoring Freen’s name in the comments. A lot of people were throwing Freen’s name out to her but she really just wanted to address the rumors of the everyone but Freen. It was really something to get to watch it live. A lot of people praised her for being brave enough to speak up.
They did not start dating until December 2021 or even beginning of January 2022. The live videos of 2021 are actually them being close friends and holding to admit their crush on each other. If you look at Freen in the 2021 live videos, you will see how she is trying to keep her composure. On the other hand Becky is full on flirting like crazy :). I am sure that Freen was concerned to start anything with Becky because of her age, possibility of losing the friendship and their GAP project (since it was the GAP workshop era). On January 2022 something changed. They started their romantic relationship. That is also why they celebrated their first anniversary in the beginning of January 2023 :)
I wish them a looooong journey of love. They deserve all the good things this life has to offer. There is really no more need to scrutinize whether they are together or not. Because they are :) I just hope that all this fame and work tempo don't get in the way of their happiness.
How do u know?
@@honeya3183 no comment ;)
@@sekecik3232 😆 🤣 😂 nam is that you? Lol 😆
@Honey a the laugh i busted out?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@godfirst9990 ok captain nam lol 😆 😂
Please please I beg you to do more of freenbecky reactions, I really enjoy them and your anylisis of them make my day everytime
More FREENBECKY coming today! Stay tuned 🥰
Also becky has a old tweet she said" I found my soulmate"
😉😏
So Glad You Made Another Freenbecky One. Just My Personal Opinion Aside From All The Drama TikTok Created Around Freens Confession Of Having A Lover, From My Personal Point Of View, And Respectfully I Believe Is Becky. To Me I Can't Think Of Anybody Else Cus Think About This, They Were Together In Valentines Day, Freen Has A Dior Ring That Becky Gave Her On Her Birthday That She Wears Often, They Share Clothing, They Flirt And Kiss Off Cam ect. Like If Is Somebody Else I'm Cool Whit It, Like Let My Girl Be Happy, But Honestly They Themselves Have Given So Many Clues Recently That I Strongly Believe They Are In Fact Each Other's Partner. Cus To Me If She Had A Partner It Has To Be The Most Non Jealous Person In These World, Cus Like The Things Freenbecky Be Doing Would Have Me Rolling Around In The Floor If I Was The Lover Of One Of Them. But Well See, I Strongly Believe Is Is Becky, But If It's Not I'll Be Cool. Like I Said I Just Want Them To Be Happy.
Yes to all of this!
This is the first video I have watched from you. I love your energy and your kind words to everyone.
Thank you 😊
Also, they had a live convo where freen was driving home and she said it was traffic then becky asked her to just go to her condo coz it's near. Without 2nd thought freen said okay, like as if she has her clothes there at Becky's house so it's okay for her to just stay the night there. Coz if I'm free. I'll be like, girl I don't have extra clothes with me blah blah.
That part!
She don't need clothes
Also From A Fan Service Perspective:
People Please Realize It Is In Fact Not Just Fan Service. You Can't Fake Chemistry And Confort Whit Someone.
When You Genuinely Don't Like Someone Or Don't Feel Comfortable Enough Whit Them Your Not Gonna Act Like This Two Act When There Together.
There's Obviously A Lever Of Comfort And Understanding That You Only Achieve When You've Spend Enough Time Whit Somebody.
There Body's React To Each Other. This Is Another Point That Makes Me Strongly Believe Their Together, We've Seen This Even In Some Scenes From GAP, How Their Eyes Dilated, How Their Skin Gets Goosebumps. How They Get To Carried Away In Some Scenes. All This Things Don't Just Happened Whit A Random Ass Person, Neither Can You Fake This Reactions From Your Body.
💯💯💯💯
Your so right. Why would you admit that your in a relationship and your happy. But then says I haven't met my soulmate yet! Shit! I'd be pissed off.
And also I agree with you on the part where, I think they're just waiting for the right time to come out as a couple. Because of age, and I think they know that if they come out now. They won't have any privacy left. Especially the fact that their careers rightnow just shot up to the roof. They can barely go anywhere without anyone taking pictures or videos.
Alot of fans gone crazy. I'm happy just seeing them together and happy. If they're together for real, then I'm happy for them too. I'm just having fun and admiring what they have.
I’m sure the toxic fans make them apprehensive about confirming anything. We will just have to wait and see how things play out ❤️
They’re so busy being with each other. They would be so lucky if their partners are that patient and considerate to wait for their free time. And they both have a live interview or TikTok I think where they said that they’re single.
That part!
Love it bro. This is what I'm talking about! Sending love from Philippines 🤘
I appreciate that! ❤️
More analysis pls. Love it
More coming! Tune in this Saturday at 2pm
Seeing Freenbecky on The Gap has put me in a chokehold sense you introduced them to us. I have been in a continuous rabbit hole about them and Englot. An I don't ever want to come out of it lol. Both couples have so much chemistry it's crazy. The more they semi hide and then show a little something the more we ship them lol. I love it here.
Same
Me too⚛️
I think it's call a lockdown we are all locked 🔒 down and the keys lost. Nikki knows exactly how to keep us gasping but I love every minute of it
@@antoinettejacqueline1160 lmao yes lockdown. They key is in the ocean somewhere lol.
I think they are more than friends, they just havent put a tag on their relationship yet. What im sure of is everything we see between them comes natural, their bodies dont lie. Sorry about my english.
💯❤️🥰
React more freenbeck moment I love your reaction.
Dropping a video today!
@@theunsolicitedtruth I will try to be in your live also 👍
I WILL WAIT ETERNALLY FOR YOU REACTION TO THEIR NEW SERIES.
Thank you 🙏🏽
I like your mindset! keep it up!somehow i think ur words will inspire a lot of people.use it well, words can break and make a person .. God bless..
Thank you. I am always mindful of what I say and how it affects people 🙏🏽❤️
Lmao u got me hollering when u said I almost threw the chips . Chips are important now
🤣🤣💯
Nah cuz if Freen sayin she got somebody, Beck wouldve cleared their ship when she went down that rabbit hole! I wouldn't want to be with someone if they over here flirting and teasing someone else nonstop and no lines are being drawn. I'll be shocked of they aint together ngl
That part!
last sentence!! idc what people say about the whole shipping thing in the industry, just because it's exposed to public it doesn't mean their feelings for each other aren't real. If there's one thing that's hard to believe is they don't have feelings beyond friends for each other.
hello again, another correction about live where freen actually speak with, many fans said food delivery, and what becky almost say is the street/the condo where their live. another fans said it actually staff give their script for GAP the series (hasn't released yet) and freen ask them to put on table and becky almost spoil it, because in their next minute if you watch whole live they were both shocked and quickly hid the papers.
🤔
So when I worked in the industry and a lot of celebrities are doing red carpets or trying to get actors to spill spoilers their agent would pat them on the hip, back, or ass where the audience would see to alert the artist that they are trending into that territory and to watch their words. I saw it so much so I asked the publicist of the actor who played Tormund Giants bane broke it down for me each tap or rub means something specific. After that I started noticing it everywhere like a secret language. I just be trying to figure out what Becky and Freen signals mean.
💯
You have to look into the audience who they winking at they winking to their bf gf along with liking each other? I think they like multiple people that they both not name and each other. Lisa from black pink and zack tabudlo ? They love their music ?
And there was a blond boy taking pictures in videos with freen he sits next to mc in audience looking like a Aron Carter look alike with NY hat they wear NY hats alot she has a NY bag her and becky both used that bag in photos and when becky went to hospital freen had that bag.
Hey Nikki I just seen this while I was rewatching what I missed on Live and decided to jump over and give it a like and bump your numbers I hope your having a awesome day 💯❤🔥
You're the best! ❤️
@@theunsolicitedtruth 💯❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Man you’re so smart 😂😍🤣
❤️🤣🙏🏽
This is good, haha, I'm not a shipper but I'm asian, I guess its good to share my own pov about your ship, the thing with freen and becky is that even those people (like me) who's not a shipper will think twice because of their actions and body language, what i mean is that if they are sister, those sweetness and fan service will not be so awkward and so reserve right? They are the one who's giving malice to their own actions and body languaeg, that's why you just gonna think there is really something! 😂
💯🤣
Always on point! Love this content
Appreciate it! ❤️
Yo I love your content and imma about to watch your reaction because yes to all of em lol. Also, if Becky is not with Freen then whoever she is with is a strong person because whew chilllle
Amen to that ❤️🤣🤣
Becky’s gonna graduate this year and what’s surprising is that freen will be going to England for her graduation. They already get a ticket for freen.
💯
The interview and Becky's live were on the same day
I’ve heard conflicting theories about that. Either way the message they sent was received
You are very smart
Agree! Respect.
💯❤️
Could you react to Secret Crush on You? Its a BL, I only watched it bc Freenbeck but then I really enjoyed it. They are all sooooo cute and funny. Heng (Kirk on gap), Nam (Jim on Gap) and freenbeck are there
I’m thinking about it! 🤔👀❤️
@@theunsolicitedtruth Awesome. Thank you
Hi good day i really like youre point of view about freenbecky, but if you have time try to watch there moments w/out camera their you can really say whats the truth, eyes cant lie, eyes is the door to youre suol,
And they even share lollipops, i think "bfriends/sister never do that, sharing 1 lollipop canday... try to watch their moments, they are so sweet even the GAP have'nt started yet..
Thank you, have a good day😊😊😊
More moments coming love
People to in their feelings with these Celebrities. Don't get so emotionally invested like you are in the relationship with them.
Eggsblackly
I don’t know who they are dating and I don’t really care tbh but I find it weird that they will ship Becky and Freen with 30 different guys when these two are literally always together. Maybe, they are just friends but c’mon!! Acting like a relationship between these two isn’t possible it’s sort of weird. Like they like the idea of GL’s but not the reality if Freenbeck is a thing. Recently found your channel and I’m obsessed 🫶🏽 keep it up 👍🏽
💯💯❤️
i agree with you 100% i think freen and becky are together in real life but even if they are not i will still ship them even if they have different partners
💯
Hello There is a tiktok of someone asking her what she looks for in a man? Becky's reply, in such a sexy mature, etc. way" I'm not lookin for a man! Let's start there!!!
That’s my girl 🤣
Nikki I think she saw freens name but refuse to answer
That’s what I’m thinking 🤔
Are you going to do any guy love series, I have a recommendation called KinnPorsche..
💯 thank you
I couldn't get behind them in SCOY because Becky was so young like 18/19 I think but filmed when she was 17/18 it's hella awkward when I'm so much older. That's cringy as hell. I enjoy their interactions because I've watched their journey grow like my little siblings but that's as far as I go.
💯
It would be nice to see them together as a couple..but here is my view...i feel like at some point FreenBecky became more than friends but less than lovers...i feel like intimate stuff is happening between them, cause of their body language..but if they come out for any reason that might be and said we have our separate partners...i will be more than happy...i ship them but i don't care that much to be honest.
🤔
@@theunsolicitedtruth it's just to say i ship them and want them to be together...but if they're not im cool...they like it, i love it.
That chick on stage with her check her out that is a chick that had personal interview at end of this video with the one on one with freen in a separate interview. The lady that interviewed freen with one on one . And the chick with chick on stage too they reveal it could be that chick. And is that not lisa from black pink she was following them through series check out all the black pink videos of Lisa mimicking everything with her crew. Look into that it could be lisa she was in background of pictures one with freen on her lap one with the blond boy photographer that took all the pictures while that chick in audience at events they had their cameras next to mc which is the one asking questions by 📷 🤳 📹 🎥 is it just me or did she go to black pink concert with becky to see her they talked while becky 👀 watched I think they with others but keeping that low key why becky sing zack taboudlo songs all time? And freen likes black pink songs they low key. It might be just me so I think they poly they like each other and others too. They love all love is love.
Just their comfort zone.
Marry Freen, Mash Fa, and Kiss Becky
Wassup
Yes, I truly agree with you about other fan base opinion about there idols. I respect your openness about artists relationships.
What it do
th-cam.com/users/shortsBGkjR_303rY?feature=share here is blond boy he was a photographer
The only way a guy would be ok with Freen flirting and spending time with Becky is if he knew it was all acting / fanservice AND if he was part of IDF or Gap production. They could also hide this person from the public if he traveled along to appearances. This guy would be ok with things because he benefits from Freenbecky. These are the reasons many fans throw out the manes - Heng, Saint and Seng. I have no idea. I think we are wrong to necessarily expect this guy (if he even exists) to be jealous. He may be right there with them. My God, look at Freen. She’s 24, who would t want to date her??
🤣 ok
@@theunsolicitedtruth not that I believe one word of this! How is there even time for another relationship other than Becky. Freen is so whipped by her and must be at her beckon-call
Even the ig post that that freen and becky they pissed bcoz ofthe option translation mess up
💯
Na, has in post about freenbecky
❤️
hi, could you take a look at the bl series? if so, you could kinnporche it's a very good series😁❤️
I'll check it out!
@@theunsolicitedtruth thank you 😁
The translator in Kmusify was kinda meh.....The soul mate question freen actaully said "i believe there is soulmates, i just dont know if we have or havent met yet"
Freen did not say say no not yet
FReen wished she could be invisible so she can go anywhere she wants
Also thier a 2021 tweet becky tweet about soulmate that she said
I metmy soulmate that was she said
💯
The chick on stage with her.
Kirsten Stewart got destroyed and Robert Patterson got a pat on the back and was good to go.
💯
We know buiar and reis not together for real. I dont know with the Asian folks. No disrespect but I don't understand Asian culture. I'm not sure how seriously they the actresses take the ships. I watched a few charlotte engfa vids and freen and Becky. Here's my breakdown. I don't know at all with Becky and freen. I literally don't know. But engfa definitely likes Charlotte and I think Charlotte likes engfa but I don't know if Charlotte wants to be in a relationship she's low key having fun but afraid. Afraid of a new life afraid engfa won't stay faithful because it seems EVERYONE female and male love engfa lol.
You started talking bout it. I'm sorry sis I can tell with American even central and south American. The Asians because there are several differences in culture we all different makes the world most interesting.
Love and laughter don’t have an accent. In other words I don’t have to know the culture to now what love looks like. 💯❤️
Don’t think they would be allowed to deny their ship even if they’re not together. Research Thai BL.
They are protecting their careers and also their privacy. I’m not going back and forth about this