I think Jamie may have went a little to far but he was just protecting Jamie and clearing himself. He went through hell and I do feel bad. What’s his name? And. I’m going to miss them all so much I hope that in the next that we see Roger & Brianna & them coming back it just not enough time they should have at least 4 more weeks 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢🙏✝️🐞❤️😘🕊️🌹
Because the series has left out "lots" of what is in the books, it is not a surprise to see differing views in the comments on various social media. Jamie is permanently traumatised by the attack on him by Randall and throughout his life, suffers shocking nightmares about it. When John said what he said to Jamie, he crossed the line Jamie had drawn at seeing their relationship as friendship only. Apart from his rage that these two people had "carnal knowledge", he is feeling betrayed that they would do this especially so quickly after his apparent death and he is having trouble digesting why John, a homosexual would have sex with Claire and how Claire would allow it. John's use of the word he used debases what they were doing. Most readers of the books were shocked by the author's turn of events, and I for one, hated that section of the book because she had Claire having sex only days after Jamie is dead (and it is intimated that it occurred more than once and she was admiring John's body). Anyone who has lost a loved one knows that that just does not happen. So that storyline became just one of her crazy plot lines (there's so many of them).
Where you are getting the 'homophobia' from?? The man finds out one of his lifelong best friends hopped into bed with his wife before the dirt had supposedly settled on his grave. He has no idea yet that John married her to protect her from spy accusations and the act happened out of rage & grief. He thinks they both betrayed him in the worst way possible. He's shocked to find out all it took was a death notice for them to jump into each others arms. But it's even worse when he finds out John Grey's actions were ultimately selfish in that he did not love Claire deeply the way Jaime does, but took advantage of her vulnerability to act out his unrequited love for Jaime. This has everything to do with betrayal and rage and nothing to do with 'homophobia'. When he asks Claire if John 'buggered' her he was trying to hurt her back - by throwing in her face she hopped into bed with a man that could never love her with the depth Jamie does. He also throws in the hurtful remark about how he knows she becomes 'easy to bed' when she's had a few drinks. He was deeply hurt and he wanted to hurt them both back for what he thought at the moment was the ultimate betrayel. So he inflicted physical hurt on John and emotional hurt on Claire. The attack from Black Jack Randall decades ago was the last thing on his mind.
From the fact that Jamie hit John not after he said he slept with Claire but after he said they were both fu*king him. He was bothered more by the idea of being fu*ked by John. But this is just my interpretation. You’re entitled to your own. Thanks for sharing your thoughts ❤️
And we don’t know what goes on in a character’s mind. Trauma affects people in myriad ways. The effects don’t have to be out in the open, they can be subtle sometimes. I think this is more apparent in the books where we are told Jamie finds homosexuality abhorrent and it has a lot to do with his traumatic past
@@thenextseason ah hah, so that's the answer to my question about where the idea of homophobia comes from. I have not read the books and did not know Galbadon specified that Jamie is opposed to homosexuality. Seems odd though, that he has known John was homosexual all these years and it never interfered with their close friendship & trust, but it would bother him suddenly now. But feelings of betrayal are a powerful thing that can set off all types of bad reactions.
@@deltaanthropos5259 The context found in the books is a great help to better understanding the motivations of the individual characters. In addition to the OL books there are also the Lord John books in which reveal other interactions between him and Jamie while he was at Helwater and John's prisoner. There's a great deal of fission between those two, and in a previous storyline Jamie nearly hit him (but hit the stable stall railing instead) for a comment that LJ made. There's more than Wentworth going on to trigger his violent outburst. Remember that Jamie kills a lot of other people. Not just in battle. Yes, it's often kill or be killed, but. He's also possessive about Claire, and his anger is out of control. LJ, on the other hand, stays controlled. That's very evident in the LJ books where he competently deals with a great number of sticky situations. If you recall the time on ship when Jamie wanted to enlist Fergus to free him and stage a mutiny, but Fergus refused (for sound reasons), Jamie may be the king of men, but he is not always in control of himself. When he's not, he acts without honour. Any number of expletives could apply.
Why did neither Lord John nor Claire explain to Jamie right away that he had married Claire to save her? Instead, they focused on the fact that they’ve had a physical relationship. Would it have been too simple for the narrative? On this point Claire's lack of honesty disappointed me…
Wow, Someone who accepts comments! I am mostly interested in Lord John. I also like a bit of Bree and Roger. Ian and Rachel. Sorry, bored with whining William, Jamie gave Lord John to that Patrol who wanna hang him. Not cool.
And let's not forget Jamie and Ian also sold Roger to the Mohawk! Jamie is not the paragon of tolerance and fairness that we may want him to be. If anything or anyone gets in the way of Jamie's agenda, anything is fair game.
@@thenextseasonas accidentally witnessed by Brianna, between John and another male house guest, after the dinner at River Run, season 4. I imagine it would tend to be preferred by a male homosexual. I think Jamie imagines that, too.
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
I am hoping that Lord John gets back home ok, and gets some well-deserved peace and happiness.
Poor Lord John. He helps Jamie all the time, and this is how he's repaid.
I think Jamie was definitely reliving past trauma at the hands of BJ Randall
I think Jamie may have went a little to far but he was just protecting Jamie and clearing himself. He went through hell and I do feel bad. What’s his name? And. I’m going to miss them all so much I hope that in the next that we see Roger & Brianna & them coming back it just not enough time they should have at least 4 more weeks 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢🙏✝️🐞❤️😘🕊️🌹
Can’t wait to see it
Because the series has left out "lots" of what is in the books, it is not a surprise to see differing views in the comments on various social media. Jamie is permanently traumatised by the attack on him by Randall and throughout his life, suffers shocking nightmares about it. When John said what he said to Jamie, he crossed the line Jamie had drawn at seeing their relationship as friendship only. Apart from his rage that these two people had "carnal knowledge", he is feeling betrayed that they would do this especially so quickly after his apparent death and he is having trouble digesting why John, a homosexual would have sex with Claire and how Claire would allow it. John's use of the word he used debases what they were doing. Most readers of the books were shocked by the author's turn of events, and I for one, hated that section of the book because she had Claire having sex only days after Jamie is dead (and it is intimated that it occurred more than once and she was admiring John's body). Anyone who has lost a loved one knows that that just does not happen. So that storyline became just one of her crazy plot lines (there's so many of them).
Where you are getting the 'homophobia' from?? The man finds out one of his lifelong best friends hopped into bed with his wife before the dirt had supposedly settled on his grave. He has no idea yet that John married her to protect her from spy accusations and the act happened out of rage & grief. He thinks they both betrayed him in the worst way possible. He's shocked to find out all it took was a death notice for them to jump into each others arms. But it's even worse when he finds out John Grey's actions were ultimately selfish in that he did not love Claire deeply the way Jaime does, but took advantage of her vulnerability to act out his unrequited love for Jaime. This has everything to do with betrayal and rage and nothing to do with 'homophobia'. When he asks Claire if John 'buggered' her he was trying to hurt her back - by throwing in her face she hopped into bed with a man that could never love her with the depth Jamie does. He also throws in the hurtful remark about how he knows she becomes 'easy to bed' when she's had a few drinks. He was deeply hurt and he wanted to hurt them both back for what he thought at the moment was the ultimate betrayel. So he inflicted physical hurt on John and emotional hurt on Claire. The attack from Black Jack Randall decades ago was the last thing on his mind.
From the fact that Jamie hit John not after he said he slept with Claire but after he said they were both fu*king him. He was bothered more by the idea of being fu*ked by John. But this is just my interpretation. You’re entitled to your own. Thanks for sharing your thoughts ❤️
Для меня разбит прежний образ Клер ! Пьяные оргии ,нет это не про скорбь , 😨👎
And we don’t know what goes on in a character’s mind. Trauma affects people in myriad ways. The effects don’t have to be out in the open, they can be subtle sometimes. I think this is more apparent in the books where we are told Jamie finds homosexuality abhorrent and it has a lot to do with his traumatic past
@@thenextseason ah hah, so that's the answer to my question about where the idea of homophobia comes from. I have not read the books and did not know Galbadon specified that Jamie is opposed to homosexuality. Seems odd though, that he has known John was homosexual all these years and it never interfered with their close friendship & trust, but it would bother him suddenly now. But feelings of betrayal are a powerful thing that can set off all types of bad reactions.
@@deltaanthropos5259 The context found in the books is a great help to better understanding the motivations of the individual characters. In addition to the OL books there are also the Lord John books in which reveal other interactions between him and Jamie while he was at Helwater and John's prisoner. There's a great deal of fission between those two, and in a previous storyline Jamie nearly hit him (but hit the stable stall railing instead) for a comment that LJ made. There's more than Wentworth going on to trigger his violent outburst.
Remember that Jamie kills a lot of other people. Not just in battle. Yes, it's often kill or be killed, but. He's also possessive about Claire, and his anger is out of control. LJ, on the other hand, stays controlled. That's very evident in the LJ books where he competently deals with a great number of sticky situations. If you recall the time on ship when Jamie wanted to enlist Fergus to free him and stage a mutiny, but Fergus refused (for sound reasons), Jamie may be the king of men, but he is not always in control of himself. When he's not, he acts without honour. Any number of expletives could apply.
Why did neither Lord John nor Claire explain to Jamie right away that he had married Claire to save her? Instead, they focused on the fact that they’ve had a physical relationship. Would it have been too simple for the narrative? On this point Claire's lack of honesty disappointed me…
I found The Lord John/Jaime storyline’s funny this episode
Wow, Someone who accepts comments! I am mostly interested in Lord John. I also like a bit of Bree and Roger. Ian and Rachel. Sorry, bored with whining William, Jamie gave Lord John to that Patrol who wanna hang him. Not cool.
Comments are always welcome 🙏 It’s nice to see another Lord John fan ❤️
And let's not forget Jamie and Ian also sold Roger to the Mohawk! Jamie is not the paragon of tolerance and fairness that we may want him to be. If anything or anyone gets in the way of Jamie's agenda, anything is fair game.
This is a great show ! It just keeps keepin on , a great story line !!!!!!❤
💯
The Bree and Roger storyline is boring. Bree is smart enough to that if Rob is still in 1980 so is Jemmy .
What is bugger?
a*al sex :)
anal sex
@@thenextseasonas accidentally witnessed by Brianna, between John and another male house guest, after the dinner at River Run, season 4. I imagine it would tend to be preferred by a male homosexual. I think Jamie imagines that, too.
Sodomy