We have a product in the US called Hardi Plank, a cement based product with variations for lap siding and some paneling. Pure crap. Cementitious products like this that are thinned (these use wood sawdust at one point, possibly still) and the final form is too thin for any strength (3/16ths). Moisture is a deadly enemy and will dissolve them in short order. In fact the manufacturer tells you not to pressure wash the product. Yet the wood texture is achieved with an imprinted paper coating which feeds mildew and bacteria. The 1" x 8" x 12' "boards" are so weak that if one man picks them up in the middle flat side down they will stand a very good chance of breaking in two. The dust is very toxic and if using a nail gun (I had to predrill all my hand nails) it blows a crater out the back. This I realized when I had to remove a board. They cannot stand winds above thirty mph without face nailing as well as the hidden course. Originally they came with a fifteen year paint guarantee. Mine (following all the recommendations and adding extra coats) began deteriorating on the weather side of the building within a year. Manufacturer's response was to void all warranties in Alaska. This product and those like it may work well in a desert environment but even then if snow builds up on the lower courses they will dissolve. It is expensive, onerous to install, and a total failure. In the early 2000's it was all the rage but after about five years and experience with the product no quality builder uses the garbage. Everything today is about lying in advertising to make up for the quality they remove from products with never any intention of backing the warranties promised. Always a huge gamble to try anything new on the market that hasn't passed the test of time. Replacement type products are really prone to this lack of quality. In your case any neophyte should know that plastic will not adhere to plastic nor lend any strength to the composite but actually create a weak spot as you described. What competent engineer would ever propose that formula and keep his job? Absolutely disgusting.
Sounds like the cardboard wrap being used as a sub siding. Can't believe they call it structural. I pity anyone buying a new home in a massive development. Seems like a conspiracy to defraud going on.
Hardie Plank uses a molded “timber grain” not a paper coating. It come in various thicknesses (3/16”/5mm is about as thin as they make but the 3/4”/19mm clapboard replacement is pretty robust). It’s made using similar machines to what is used to make cardboard but with cement slurry added to the wood pulp. Cheap construction undermines any material however.
I installed the same panels on my farm 2 years ago and they are as good as new. You have to intall a 3cm flexible membrane in each bottom truss. That prevents the panels to build moisture underneath. Moisture gets under the panels and you might end up with linear cracks. Also Ive noticed that Its too easy to damage these panels during transport, I have a bumpy road to my palce, and while some of them were clearly damaged while being transported, I have a problem with two panels placed on the end that cracked vertically, I solved the isue bolting them in the middle and having the other panels to act as a weight on the corners of the panels. If you only put bolts In the corners and moisture build up inside, the panel will tend to bend upwards provoking the cracks. I hope this solves some of your doubts. I dont know If In the future I will still use these panels, as they are geting o the same price of the metallic ones, so... they are making me the choice easier.
I had exactly the same problem with cement panels here in Scotland. Every single panel split down the centre, usually on the peak. There are many, many small cracks as well. The supplier told me that 30 years was the expected life span, so I felt sure that they would be OK. Nope, all cracked within the first year or so. The supplier then went bankrupt and restarted with a very slight name change. This meant that I and no doubt many other had no legal route to take to get the problem fixed. I don't have the money to replace the roof, too much !! So I have cut strips of clear glassfibre sheets and screwed that over most of the big cracks. This has solved most of the water leaks and didn't cost too much, but it is far from ideal. I'll have to look and see whether my sheets are Eternit made or not? Same fault though, crack in the middle, where the plastic strap is and areas of poor adhesion between layers. I would NEVER use this type of sheet again.
Should never ever happen they still build barns and sheds with big 6 and it’s totally fine mine is 60 years old and still good. Concrete fiber roofs should last a really really long time.
Cracking of AC and cement fibre sheets is usually due to poor maintenance practices on roof access. The sheets should never be adhered together, they are like most tile and sheet materials just dry lapped. There are many industrial roofs that have AC sheeting that have been totally reliable for nearly 100 years.
Great video and from what I can see you would appear to be 'bang on', most likely a manufacturing defect. I speak with 40 years of mechanical design experience in machinery and civil construction. The fact that there is a definite and regular pattern to the panel failures suggests a flaw in the manufacturing process or the design and your excellent demonstration shows how the panels should really fail when the fasteners are over tightened. Eternit should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, I always thought they had a good name but obviously not when it comes to after sales. I have a smaller but similar job to do next year but will be steering well clear of Eternit. I hope someone with a similar problem with these panels contacts you, maybe then Eternit might man up and accept that they might actually be in the wrong. It might be worth trawling the internet with various searches to see if others have raised this issue. Good luck.
Me too!! I am going to use the sheets from Briarwood. They are the proper "big six" profile and hopefully will be ok. Mind you, I had some samples from Eternit and they looked ok.. One thing i WILL say, from looking at the video, it looks to me like the sheets were bolted in the wrong place. You do not bolt the last "hump" [so through the overlaps] but one "hump" in from there on both sides, [but have a look at the fixings at 4:27 on the video, bolted through the overlaps] AND the makers say NEVER to use more than 6 fixings [if on three purlins] or 4 fixings on two, so do not bolt through the middles either. Still, it has certainly given me something to think about.. ALSO, i happen to know that Eternit DO NOT make their sheets themselves anymore. Was it Peterborough they made them?? forget now, but they are made for them in Poland i believe it is now..
Sorry but the asbestos is an amazingly resistant Excellent building material. I had siding that must have been 60 years old. I covered it with vinyl siding. Asbestos outside poses no danger. It lasts for a long time. Heat and wear resistant. Other than Cancer it would be in use today.
I live in the UK, in the early 1080's we had a lean too built against our barn. The frame is wooden and the roofing sheets asbestos free. Many of them have cracked along the length at the top of the corrugation, I don't think that the fibre lengths that were used were up to it. Asbestos was much stronger but of course we know not to use it. Good quality coated steel sheets, with insulation, is the best product.
I was considering using these but looking at your bad experience with this product im now thinking steel sheets Im retired now but in the steeplejack industry we had to work on these type of roof coatings alot and it was drummed into us to treat as fragile roofs and use staging boards and fall arrest equipment Ive recently seen some videos showing farmers fitting these sheets on barns and walking on the sheets mid section 😮 but i was unaware that now the modern sheets have fall protection strips built in Thanks for sharing this video And i feel for you having the roof cost Twice maybe this video will help others
A good metal sheet would be rated for around a 2600mm span.The worst that would happen if you jumped in the middle would be a stuffed panel,not a widow at home!
I never heard that someone installed the new Eternit panells. In our region most of the old stuff from the ~60-80s is still installed. Sometimes its just hidden under steel sheet. But the fact that those asbestos plates last 60+ years is pretty impresive.
Se agradece el consejo. Es evidente que es un defecto de fabricación y el representante de la fabrica dice que esta mal colocado, para no hacerse cargo de su responsabilidad. donde este el panel sandwich que se quite esta basura defectuosa👍😊
I had a bunch in Switzerland that I removed last year. I replaced them with the identical cement panels without asbestos - no cracking problems. I have terracotta tiles on top.
Interesting video, thanks. I am/was considering these panels. One small qualm I have with your methodology is that a panel would never crack over the whole length by overtightening one screw in the middle as you've shown. But when using 3-4 screws over the length, the stresses on whole length of the ridge also increase 3-4 times. Then it also needs quite some time. So this test you did showed us very little. I would be interested to see if you can reproduce the cracking in a semi-realistic mounting scenario. If you still have unbroken middle ridges that would of course make for a great side-by-side test.
Thanks for the comments, the panels when mounted had only 2 or 3 bolds over the lenght when they were on the roof. The little test I did was indeed only one bold . I will see if `i can do it with what you stated ' , as most panels are now gone..
I was really hoping to see a short 1988, VHS quality video clip of you installing the cement panels in the first place, sporting a large bushy 80s style mustache.
ive worked with cement fibre sheets for 25 years, we use a different company, But we always had problems with Eternit sheets and their trims and accessories
A neighbor of ours had the same problem. After a month the whole roof had to be replaced. He got new Ethernit panels, which were much smaller and straight. So far it has held up for a year. But that's why I used Prefa panels made of aluminum.
I wish I knew earlier. We had Eternit on our farm before and it was on for 40 to 50 years without major problems. Thats why I chose it again but I should have been more carefull about the fact that it no longer contained asbestos, which although hazardous is still a pretty tough building material. Now there are regularly small leaks, cracks and seepage (the panels get wet underneath during rain). It isn't as bad as with your roof but next time it is corrugated metal screwed on the top of the hill to further prevent leaks.
Thanks, that is why I made the video as I assumed that others have the same issues... When the panels were on the roof and rained you could see the crack lines from the inside as they got more wet... Over time more and more cracked , and I am talking a year only..
I used to be a structural surveyor and carried out surveys on high-rise residential in the UK that quite often had Eternit panels. While no faults were found with the panels we did have issues with the fixings corroding. My advice would be to get the panels tested independently and compare to the manufacturers specifications. They publish data for design purposes that covers the physical properties so you should be able to compare. Also is there not some kind of guarantee on the materials, 10 years is not unusual for materials? Onduline might be a better product and it is more environmental than sheet steel.
@@D3Sshooter Great many years ago when manufacturers in my country were forced to move away from asbestos as a binding material for cement roof panels, my cousin bought a bunch of brand new "2nd rate" non-asbestos cement panels which were sold that way because of colouring errors which made their colour visibly uneven. But they were still supposed to be good for their intended purpose. Based on what he told me back then, he had to re-do his entire roof as a metal roof because water literally began to seep *through* the cement panels (AFAIK they didn't crack), and the manufacturer was very quick to fully dismiss his complaints by saying that they won't in any way or shape warranty "2nd rate" products and that they will not discuss it further outside court. My cousin didn't have the resources to go to court at the time, but he's still bitter since his opinion is that the company was aware that their new non-asbestos design was faulty but they didn't want to deal with it and would thus just stomp out individuals who complained, because at the time my country didn't allow any form of class actions so any legal action would have to have been on individual basis.
Hi 👋🏻 Steve. Great video even though there was a problem your concrete roof panels 😢 But as always you explanation of the issue is first class 👍🏻 We’re coming to Brugge on Sunday for the Christmas markets as they’re so much better than the uk 🇬🇧 ones lol 😂 Take care cheers Stevie 😎🏴
Hello, I'm roofer in Lithuania, that stuff is made here, its total rubbish. I try to talk client out of using it, but if they insist I recommend using Cembrit product, i think its polish, its noticeably less brittle.
Cembrit is very good, it is very elastic and don't have any issues after 5 years. Completely different compared to Eternit. You can bend it very much and it won't crack.
Eternit was originally German and used on many Shed and Garage Roofs back in the day here in Germany in its original Form (with the Asbestos). I think it was for the time a good material but today it costs a Fortune to get it disposed and Nobody used it here. Maybe it lost the original strength when they had to replace the Asbestos with something Else - Asbestos May be unhealthy but was indeed a pretty good stuff for many things. That May be the reason why they used it in millions of products back in the day
cembrit is danish and even in Denmark we have had problems with the non-asbestos products they have made since asbestos ban in 1989.. i think cement roof sheets are of the past and we need to move on and use clay tiles or metal roof or even a bitumen roof (bitumen roofs have also gotten very weak after asbestos ban, i have 1950s bitumen paper nailed to the walls in my shed and they are almost mint condition but the metal roof on my shed also from 1950s is in mint condition, thats why metal roof is the best)
As i understood those have glassfiber instead of asbestos, which mean that the fibers should be relatively evenly distributed, so based on my own experienced from old eternit sheets whan we took them down from the roof of my old workplace the sheets should not crack this way if it was caused by stress from the bolts or people walking on them, i believe this has to do with bad bond that cause delamination between the layers cover that plastic strip as You mentioned here, at least that's the only sane explanation that come to my mind ...
@@D3Sshooter I might be wrong, but i have no memories of those old eternit sheets ever cracking this way, i used to walk quite a lot on the old sheets, and the chimney sweeper used a ladder laying directly on them for many years there. The old type of squarehead bolt washers was made of relatively thick steel and had a hard fiber sheet instead of those modern soft rubberpads, so i don't think it was the bolts either as You said here, as You said the washer will punch a hole in the sheet insterad of breaking it if they are realy extremely owertightened.
@@D3Sshooter I'm surprised they even considered using such wide strap, that should be a metal or fiberglass mesh so that it doesn't create a wide area with no layer adhesion, that's just the cheapest packaging strap that you can get and even with plastic there would be better ways to do it. I'm not sure why this is even done on the product side anyway, here in NZ I always see long-span roofs built with thin steel mesh installed underneath which I am guessing serves the role of fall protection, and presumably makes it safer during installation of panels too.
It looks like Europe and the poor guy was braine fashed. There are two tipes of asbestos one which was used in America is hazardous but other tipe is safe. Lots of studies were done about
I am surprised Eternit still exists, they were notorious for still using asbestos when it was already known it was quite dangerous. I remember my parents removing asbestos from our house around 1986, so I am surprised to see new ones were installed in 1988.
Asbestos is actually a pretty amazing and wonderful material in many many ways. Of course it is also hazardous when you don't know the dangers, but the benefits are undeniable and profound. I'm not advocating for reversing legislation to prohibit asbestos in construction materials, but also if I was building in 1988 and knew that I could still use this wonder-material for a low-risk application like roofing, I would probably use it or at least seriously consider using it. Even more so in a barn/workshop where you won't be living in it all the time.
I remember having to spec replacement Big 6 sheeting in 1976 and by then all the suppliers were providing non-asbestos equivalents. I wonder whether the sheets supplied in 1988 were old stock that the supplier had kicking around for years or was salvaged from another roof, either way by 1988 they ought not to have been supplied in the original asbestos form.
ive installed a lot of steel roofs, but never have seen panels like these in the states. i am surprised they don't have a foam backer in the high ribs where the screws go. the panels also look fairly rigid and i cannot see them expanding and contracting nicely over the seasons, especially here in the midwest. the benefit of the steel roof panels are that they are able to bend as they expand between the fasteners without causing material fatigue.
This is shocking. What is it that some people just will not put their hand up and admit that they are wrong? How do they look at themselves in a mirror? How do they sleep at night? Very well done to your roofing contractor👏. I hope the company folds as a result of this.👏🇨🇮
I had a workshop with these cement sheets. I absolutely loved them until I realised how easy it was to break into my workshop by just stamping on the roof. Now I have second hand insulated walkways panels. They were designed to span a 40 ft gap and be walked on as a flat roof. Awesome. 12 inches thick in total. basically look like standard roof panels but installed with flat side up. I got them second hand and flipped them to use as normal panels. cant fault them. its like being in an underground bunker.
Ouch! I feel for you, I have had similar experiences. Paying a premium for a product that the supplier/manufacturer sold as a superior product only to discover it’s junk. I hope the manufacturer help’s or otherwise makes it right.
Eternit ist ein deutsches Unternehmen und gehört der belgischen Etex . Diese negativ Qualität und die Reklamtions Bearbeitung muss dringend den zuständigen CEO persönlich per Einschreiben berichtet werden. Sowohl bei Etex als auch bei Eternit. Ich habe mit anderen Unternehmen dabei die Erfahrung gemacht das der Ärger in ein positives Erlebnis gewandelt wird. Würde mich interessieren wie es weiter geht. Never give up ! Good luck Gerd
Had these - had asbestos (confirmed by specialist firm who lab tested by independent lab). I then paid to have them removed ... Annoying but it stopped a huge liability if I tried to sell it.
Cement panels without asbestos are not as durable. It really is a shame that asbestos had to be so bad for people. Such a very useful and plentiful material.
Good shoise! make sure to look for replacement tiles save if you have some , if you get a crack and need to replace a few. Even if the new ones dosent crack like happend here they are prown to frost cracks Spalding after a few frostcyklels
What a good solid video. Hopefully Eternit will realise they’ve made a mega mistake in pulling the “ Big Company” move of rejecting liability for their own manufacturing mistake. Rory Steward the sales & marketing guru could probably tell them how much your video is going to cost them in lost sales because they didn’t listen and act on a positive complaint. A positive experience gets passed on to one or two people, a bad experience to ten. A video of corporate failure on TH-cam will be to the power of ten 😉
Marketing research indicates that satisfied customers typically engage roughly a dozen others in positive word of mouth promotion of a product or service while dissatisfied clients will tell their story for years to come. Case in point, I bought a new RAM 2500 pick-up and the paint began to fail (literally peel off) at 20,000 miles. Took it in under warranty and was refused regardless of an ongoing class action suit for the same issue winding its way through the courts. I took the hit, sold the truck and have never stopped telling the story of Stellantis and their sub-optimal customer service and hideous quality control. So yes, Eternit will be rewarded with lost revenues and diminished market share if enough potential buyers hear this story. I know I wouldn't use it, what a loss both monetarily as well as time in re-roofing twice while the manufacturer plays the blame game, shameful indeed.
I have a property I built as a DIY Segal all rimber house, with 3" Eternit corrugated sheeting in 1992, so not asbestos. On the whole, I am satisfied with the outcome after 30yrs, but I have found a few of the sheets have cracked in the bottom of the corrugation. I am pleased I put a roof felt on in these areas!! On a large area of roof, I put 8x4 plywood as a roof deck to enhance the timber frame structure and this was a real plus, as it allows easy safe access onto the roof!! Still seen a crack ot two here as well Where I have had cracks, I use a fibre acrylic compund, that goes on with a brush. It seem weather and sun proof too. Would I use Eternit again? Probably not in this case, if it needs re-roofing in my time, I will use metal sheets as cheaper, easier to lay and less risk of leaks on joints!
Asbestos Cement roofing panels were phased out in UK in 1970's although the Govt didn't ban their use until 1999. Most new AC sheeting did not contain asbestos widely from mid-1970's so you would be unlucky to have acquired AC sheeting in the asbestos form in 1988. Non-asbestos sheets in the classic 3" corrugated, Big 6 and Canada Tile are still required for repairs to existing roofs especially, since any access or work being done on the roof has a good chance of cracking the old sheets. if they are not cracked then they will last for many decades to come. Generally, for the large (non)asbestos cement roofs, chancing the replacement of sheets is much better than replacement because of the sheer cost of replacing large industrial roof surfaces in 1000's sqm as well as the very costly disruption to the processes carried under them.
Personally I use steel. Comes in many styles. I don't have close experience with Georgia Pacific's lap siding but have heard good things. Any siding unless you are in the snow less parts of Arizona benefits with a rain drain installation.
We have a similar problem with these… we have the black coated ones and some of them have wett lines trought them from left to right when it rains. I also regret putting these on out roof…
It was known here in the netherlands in the mid 90's that asbestos free cement panels were low quality. Degrading very fast. I'd always go for sandwich metal panels.
I think that concrete panels are a waste of time. If anyone needs to upgrade their roof you need better product. Once upon a time i changed a roof like that and i think metal is good and classic tile panels are better. I hope the new roof will be good Steve. Now you can put solar panels on that roof 😉
Standard cement eave lining is made from multiple sheets like your roof material, the old asbestos sheeting is one consistent layer which is super brittle with age but won't seperate in layers
Asbestos free. That's your problem. In my part of the world, all the old fences were asbestos cement sheets. Tough as. But then they made replacement cellulose cement sheets to replace them. And they crack just looking at them the wrong way.
Thank you for this video! I'm in the same situation with the asbestos panels that are pretty much falling apart at this point. We've considered a metal roof but are concerned about the noise it'll produce during a heavy rain- or hailstorm. After seeing this video I'd rather have some noise (sorry neighbours!) than having to replace the roof within a year. Did you need to make any additions or adjustments to the roof skeleton, or did the metal panels bolt nicely into the existing wooden beams?
You should have been offered full compensation for the concrete panels and the time, Insulated steel panels has never been no trouble especially if you buy the palsitol coated on the outside of the sheets 🇬🇧🇮🇪.
The panels cracked because the steel expanded and contracted more than the concrete. To prevent this, you would need to make the drill holes much larger. I suspect that you would notice the cracked panels start toward the middle of the roof width. I think that this is a design issue with the product and should not be installed on a steel girder roof of the width of your shop. They might be okay if they can float on a steel roof that's just a few panels wide, but not on your wide roof with the installation method used for a length-stable wood roof.
Maybe those panels are more brittle than normal, but I think they were too tightly fixed. In summer heat panels expanded and gradually pressure built up- not quite sharply and quickly like few minutes but few hours adding stedily pressure. Metal panels have their own problems, for some reason wind can create much stonger uplifting forces than other materials. So in windy areas this can be issue. Also can make allkinds of noises, from ticking in summer heat to loud banging.
Do the cement panels have _any_ flex at all, or just totally rigid? Are they totally flat (left to right), or have a slight curve? If they are totally rigid, and totally straight, then after you place the panel on the adjoining one, the middle of the panel is unsupported (- only touching on far left and right ends), so huge stress in the centre. Many years ago, I was installing a roof with approx foot-square tiles, and about 5-10% of them broke over the coming days - it turned out they were fresh off the production line and had not sat in the yard for any time at all - it normally takes a month or so for cement products to get full strength.
I think it's a freeze thaw issue. When water gets in and freezes it cracks a little more and let's more water in. Several cycles of this splits all the way along.
The problem with metal sheet roofs is they collect condensation on the underside during the winter which then rains down inside the building Cement/ asbestos roofs don't get the condensation
Real interesting that these failed. Maybe with getting samples to a concrete testing lab to see if the cement is the correct spec and see if there are any weaknesses. There must be specs for the sheet u couod refer too. Maybe use weld crack detection spray on some of the better sheet to see if there are hidden cracks and if so where to the propagate from. Interns of fitment were the sheets laid flat and relaxed before screwing ie no stress due to screwing. Also were the drilled hole large enough to allow movement of the sheet. The long national cracks could be an indicator of the sheet bing stressed.
Thanks for the comments, in terms of holes, they do not need to be pre-drilled if the RVS bolds/screws are used are per instruction PDF. It is exactly those we used. Besides that , it is only the middle wave that breaks and not the second wave where we have the same bolds.
@ ok was the sheet primate correctly. One side is designed to sit on top of the previous sheet. And the other side is very slightly longer to sit on top of the wood. Very hard to spot the difference. It will be the same on that new metal sheeting
9:21 And it definitly was! ""Panels are not installed correctly and need to be bolted down on wave 2 and if so desired wave 4 and 5... , to much torque on the bolds". The funny part is that the panels were bolted dow on wave 2 and 4-5 and the torque was normal... I agree that there were a few panels on wave 1, but those did not crack... " I guess wave 1 is the overlapping one.... and that is the problem....
Is it possible that when you received the delivery that the panels were too (green) new and the cement was still soft from production and they dried out with air movement when they were installed and contracted and cracked!!!!!!
Unless you have small tiles with good support under and secured with screws often enough I would not trust anything but a metal roof, preferably heavy galvanisation and powder based painted. My dream is to try stainless, but that would sadly be one expensive roof!
According to me, it is obvious the panels are faulty, and if this manufacturer is going to keep selling a faulty product, it won't last long in such a competitive market.
in the usa they made transite panels like this with asbestos. i have them on my industrial building built around 1920-1940. they are still fine as siding they were not used on the roof. it's over 200,000 ft sq. so we leave them alone . no problem. they switched to non asbestos some time ago . do idea if they are any good. transite made many products with asbestos cement including large water pipe for drinking water . there are videos of them being made on youtube.centrifugally cast in pipe molds that spin. after like 50 years they did fail.
I didnt even know that you could still buy eternit. I have only seen the old asbestos roofing or wall coverings. But that being said what a crappy roof especially when it cracked so easily. I wonder how it would stand up against the big snow loads we get in Sweden 😶
That sucks, also it probably stings many people like you even more to know if they had bought the right type high quality metal roof in the 1980s they might still have several decades life left in them and no government decisions demanding their removal.
Wow I am shocked. I thought these were a premium manufacturer brand. Personally I would be sending those panels to get them tested somewhere. No way was that caused by one over tight screw fixing. These panels should last decades
Thousands of farms in Uk are currently covered with fibre cement panels on steel frames with no problems , they dont do so well on your wooden purlins since are prone to movement from moisture , their weakness is they do absorb moisture then freeze , i have 2 buildings with fibre cement that have been painted and definately seem to be in better condition after 5 years , another advantage of fibre cement is they dont condensate in the cattle barns Regards
Only thing you could do better is drilling under water/wax or something like that which should be in the instructions OFC. But for roofing material this is strange to be needed. Looks like case of bad quality material. Good luck with the solving!
IT'S A STANDARD PROBLEM WITH THOSE SHEETS THEY DON'T LAST LONG WE HAVE SEEN MANY ROOFS THAT ARE 8-10 YEARS OLD THEY ARE LIKE PAPERBOARD TOTALLY DISSOLVED. AND MANY RECORDS CRACK QUICKLY THE MANUFACTURER ALWAYS DENYS THAT IT IS THEIR FAULT
They could call it The Fall-Apart Layer. If they left out the plastic then there would be one homogenous layer that was stronger than that delaminated nonsense. I used similar Canalite panels in France and they were so strong you could have a party on the roof.What's so wrong with these ones that they thought they would need 'reinforcement'?
I have done a few clad ovet old sheets don't remove them and acts as insulation.the new sheets were a bad batch of sheets i have see it before on 3 or 4 year old sheets they all broke on 3rd ridge from the overlap side .
@@matthewjenkins1161 platforms made from boards to distribute the load over many waves and panels. Plus installing the panels for the whole height of the roof in sequence. In the video the whole bottom row of the roof was installed at once with the crew stomping over installed panels while installing next rows. 100-kg persons stepping repeatedly on the same waves is pretty good way for developing cracks in these cement panels. I would say it *is* the installation technique that caused the cracks.
I wonder about this too, i'd like to know if the top row of panels failed too. if so it's not that, no one would be walking on the top row. In any case, mistake or not. Its a shame they would need to be babied that much more than steel and asbestos.
Poor quality ferro cement panels. Those panels look to be a lot less dense than the asbestos based ones. The new glass fiber ones are a lot lighter than I can remember the Everite products. Part of the thing that kept them in place was the weight. My father used to work for Everite and the Big Six sheets weighed a lot , yes trapping your fingers was a lesson learned. I got the job of sticking this tar infused foam along the top cap covers as I was the lightest.
how snug were the bolts through the panel hole? No expert, Can see this happening as the panel pushes/pulls against the bolts due to thermal expansion/contraction, maybe the holes need to be slightly larger or the bolts slightly thinner...
You probably had a bad batch of sheets or a dropped pallet I have wound mine down with an impact driver and never ever had these crack. The farmers next door to me had a shed built and when the pallet of sheets was delivered the forklift driver dropped the pallet. Over the next 20 years all the sheets cracked.
Sorry Prof steve for being out of agenda. But we are still waiting for that video series of car sensors how they work how to test functionality. Moshitoa south Africa
‘Fall through tape’😂 It looks like, and is even textured like, that plastic parcel banding. If I understand its purpose, it doesn’t add strength or crack resistance, its job is to provide a ‘safety net’ under a worker if the panel disintegrates under foot. Of course if you fall between tapes it won’t help.
It’s obviously a manufacturing fault. They should not be delaminating like that after just a year. That would have nothing to do with the installation.
We have a product in the US called Hardi Plank, a cement based product with variations for lap siding and some paneling. Pure crap. Cementitious products like this that are thinned (these use wood sawdust at one point, possibly still) and the final form is too thin for any strength (3/16ths). Moisture is a deadly enemy and will dissolve them in short order. In fact the manufacturer tells you not to pressure wash the product. Yet the wood texture is achieved with an imprinted paper coating which feeds mildew and bacteria. The 1" x 8" x 12' "boards" are so weak that if one man picks them up in the middle flat side down they will stand a very good chance of breaking in two. The dust is very toxic and if using a nail gun (I had to predrill all my hand nails) it blows a crater out the back. This I realized when I had to remove a board. They cannot stand winds above thirty mph without face nailing as well as the hidden course. Originally they came with a fifteen year paint guarantee. Mine (following all the recommendations and adding extra coats) began deteriorating on the weather side of the building within a year. Manufacturer's response was to void all warranties in Alaska. This product and those like it may work well in a desert environment but even then if snow builds up on the lower courses they will dissolve. It is expensive, onerous to install, and a total failure. In the early 2000's it was all the rage but after about five years and experience with the product no quality builder uses the garbage. Everything today is about lying in advertising to make up for the quality they remove from products with never any intention of backing the warranties promised. Always a huge gamble to try anything new on the market that hasn't passed the test of time. Replacement type products are really prone to this lack of quality.
In your case any neophyte should know that plastic will not adhere to plastic nor lend any strength to the composite but actually create a weak spot as you described. What competent engineer would ever propose that formula and keep his job? Absolutely disgusting.
Thank you for the write-up... Its stunning that these products come onto the market...
Sounds like the cardboard wrap being used as a sub siding. Can't believe they call it structural. I pity anyone buying a new home in a massive development. Seems like a conspiracy to defraud going on.
I live in Brasil, where almost everyone uses this eternit, and even here with high temperatures this fails a lot.
Hardie Plank uses a molded “timber grain” not a paper coating.
It come in various thicknesses (3/16”/5mm is about as thin as they make but the 3/4”/19mm clapboard replacement is pretty robust).
It’s made using similar machines to what is used to make cardboard but with cement slurry added to the wood pulp.
Cheap construction undermines any material however.
Pressure washing is bad for nearly any building I am amazed people do it to wooden buildings, total lack of common sense.
Nice that your contractor gave you a good deal on replacing ❤
Indeed, as he felt as betrayed by Eternit and wanted to keep a good customer relationship with me...
I installed the same panels on my farm 2 years ago and they are as good as new. You have to intall a 3cm flexible membrane in each bottom truss. That prevents the panels to build moisture underneath. Moisture gets under the panels and you might end up with linear cracks. Also Ive noticed that Its too easy to damage these panels during transport, I have a bumpy road to my palce, and while some of them were clearly damaged while being transported, I have a problem with two panels placed on the end that cracked vertically, I solved the isue bolting them in the middle and having the other panels to act as a weight on the corners of the panels. If you only put bolts In the corners and moisture build up inside, the panel will tend to bend upwards provoking the cracks. I hope this solves some of your doubts.
I dont know If In the future I will still use these panels, as they are geting o the same price of the metallic ones, so... they are making me the choice easier.
Sorry to hear that this happened to you.
Very well shot video, informative and a joy to watch
I had exactly the same problem with cement panels here in Scotland. Every single panel split down the centre, usually on the peak. There are many, many small cracks as well.
The supplier told me that 30 years was the expected life span, so I felt sure that they would be OK. Nope, all cracked within the first year or so. The supplier then went bankrupt and restarted with a very slight name change. This meant that I and no doubt many other had no legal route to take to get the problem fixed.
I don't have the money to replace the roof, too much !! So I have cut strips of clear glassfibre sheets and screwed that over most of the big cracks. This has solved most of the water leaks and didn't cost too much, but it is far from ideal.
I'll have to look and see whether my sheets are Eternit made or not? Same fault though, crack in the middle, where the plastic strap is and areas of poor adhesion between layers. I would NEVER use this type of sheet again.
Should never ever happen they still build barns and sheds with big 6 and it’s totally fine mine is 60 years old and still good.
Concrete fiber roofs should last a really really long time.
Cracking of AC and cement fibre sheets is usually due to poor maintenance practices on roof access. The sheets should never be adhered together, they are like most tile and sheet materials just dry lapped. There are many industrial roofs that have AC sheeting that have been totally reliable for nearly 100 years.
Hi Steve, check other roofs in the area and see if they had any problems, you might wanna go after the manufacture as a group, good luck
Thanks, yep that is what I have in mind..
Great video and from what I can see you would appear to be 'bang on', most likely a manufacturing defect. I speak with 40 years of mechanical design experience in machinery and civil construction. The fact that there is a definite and regular pattern to the panel failures suggests a flaw in the manufacturing process or the design and your excellent demonstration shows how the panels should really fail when the fasteners are over tightened. Eternit should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, I always thought they had a good name but obviously not when it comes to after sales. I have a smaller but similar job to do next year but will be steering well clear of Eternit. I hope someone with a similar problem with these panels contacts you, maybe then Eternit might man up and accept that they might actually be in the wrong. It might be worth trawling the internet with various searches to see if others have raised this issue. Good luck.
Thank you for the comments and advice and good luck with your roof
Me too!! I am going to use the sheets from Briarwood. They are the proper "big six" profile and hopefully will be ok. Mind you, I had some samples from Eternit and they looked ok.. One thing i WILL say, from looking at the video, it looks to me like the sheets were bolted in the wrong place. You do not bolt the last "hump" [so through the overlaps] but one "hump" in from there on both sides, [but have a look at the fixings at 4:27 on the video, bolted through the overlaps] AND the makers say NEVER to use more than 6 fixings [if on three purlins] or 4 fixings on two, so do not bolt through the middles either. Still, it has certainly given me something to think about.. ALSO, i happen to know that Eternit DO NOT make their sheets themselves anymore. Was it Peterborough they made them?? forget now, but they are made for them in Poland i believe it is now..
Sorry but the asbestos is an amazingly resistant Excellent building material. I had siding that must have been 60 years old. I covered it with vinyl siding. Asbestos outside poses no danger. It lasts for a long time. Heat and wear resistant. Other than Cancer it would be in use today.
I live in the UK, in the early 1080's we had a lean too built against our barn. The frame is wooden and the roofing sheets asbestos free. Many of them have cracked along the length at the top of the corrugation, I don't think that the fibre lengths that were used were up to it. Asbestos was much stronger but of course we know not to use it. Good quality coated steel sheets, with insulation, is the best product.
Thank you for the comments, and I can only agree
Thats a long time ago!
That's nearly 1000 years ago
Was it the 1080i's or the 1080p's?
(yes, I'll see myself out now)
I was considering using these but looking at your bad experience with this product im now thinking steel sheets
Im retired now but in the steeplejack industry we had to work on these type of roof coatings alot and it was drummed into us to treat as fragile roofs and use staging boards and fall arrest equipment
Ive recently seen some videos showing farmers fitting these sheets on barns and walking on the sheets mid section 😮 but i was unaware that now the modern sheets have fall protection strips built in
Thanks for sharing this video
And i feel for you having the roof cost
Twice maybe this video will help others
Thank you for the comments, always good to read them from pro's
A good metal sheet would be rated for around a 2600mm span.The worst that would happen if you jumped in the middle would be a stuffed panel,not a widow at home!
I never heard that someone installed the new Eternit panells. In our region most of the old stuff from the ~60-80s is still installed. Sometimes its just hidden under steel sheet. But the fact that those asbestos plates last 60+ years is pretty impresive.
Asbestos ist pretty cool stuff - apart from the fact that it causes lung cancer, of course.
Se agradece el consejo. Es evidente que es un defecto de fabricación y el representante de la fabrica dice que esta mal colocado, para no hacerse cargo de su responsabilidad. donde este el panel sandwich que se quite esta basura defectuosa👍😊
I had a bunch in Switzerland that I removed last year. I replaced them with the identical cement panels without asbestos - no cracking problems. I have terracotta tiles on top.
Good to hear that you had no issues
Interesting video, thanks. I am/was considering these panels.
One small qualm I have with your methodology is that a panel would never crack over the whole length by overtightening one screw in the middle as you've shown. But when using 3-4 screws over the length, the stresses on whole length of the ridge also increase 3-4 times. Then it also needs quite some time. So this test you did showed us very little. I would be interested to see if you can reproduce the cracking in a semi-realistic mounting scenario. If you still have unbroken middle ridges that would of course make for a great side-by-side test.
Thanks for the comments, the panels when mounted had only 2 or 3 bolds over the lenght when they were on the roof. The little test I did was indeed only one bold . I will see if `i can do it with what you stated ' , as most panels are now gone..
I was really hoping to see a short 1988, VHS quality video clip of you installing the cement panels in the first place, sporting a large bushy 80s style mustache.
next time lol
First thing he would be saying: "I don't know why exactly i'm recording this and narrating it, but i have this feeling i'll need this one day..."
ive worked with cement fibre sheets for 25 years, we use a different company, But we always had problems with Eternit sheets and their trims and accessories
Thanks for the comments
A neighbor of ours had the same problem. After a month the whole roof had to be replaced. He got new Ethernit panels, which were much smaller and straight. So far it has held up for a year. But that's why I used Prefa panels made of aluminum.
I wish I knew earlier. We had Eternit on our farm before and it was on for 40 to 50 years without major problems. Thats why I chose it again but I should have been more carefull about the fact that it no longer contained asbestos, which although hazardous is still a pretty tough building material. Now there are regularly small leaks, cracks and seepage (the panels get wet underneath during rain). It isn't as bad as with your roof but next time it is corrugated metal screwed on the top of the hill to further prevent leaks.
Thanks, that is why I made the video as I assumed that others have the same issues... When the panels were on the roof and rained you could see the crack lines from the inside as they got more wet... Over time more and more cracked , and I am talking a year only..
I used to be a structural surveyor and carried out surveys on high-rise residential in the UK that quite often had Eternit panels. While no faults were found with the panels we did have issues with the fixings corroding.
My advice would be to get the panels tested independently and compare to the manufacturers specifications. They publish data for design purposes that covers the physical properties so you should be able to compare. Also is there not some kind of guarantee on the materials, 10 years is not unusual for materials?
Onduline might be a better product and it is more environmental than sheet steel.
Thanks for the comments, in terms of warranty they escaped as they claim installer mistakes ( installer here is recognized roof builder- not me)
@@D3Sshooter Great many years ago when manufacturers in my country were forced to move away from asbestos as a binding material for cement roof panels, my cousin bought a bunch of brand new "2nd rate" non-asbestos cement panels which were sold that way because of colouring errors which made their colour visibly uneven. But they were still supposed to be good for their intended purpose.
Based on what he told me back then, he had to re-do his entire roof as a metal roof because water literally began to seep *through* the cement panels (AFAIK they didn't crack), and the manufacturer was very quick to fully dismiss his complaints by saying that they won't in any way or shape warranty "2nd rate" products and that they will not discuss it further outside court. My cousin didn't have the resources to go to court at the time, but he's still bitter since his opinion is that the company was aware that their new non-asbestos design was faulty but they didn't want to deal with it and would thus just stomp out individuals who complained, because at the time my country didn't allow any form of class actions so any legal action would have to have been on individual basis.
Hi 👋🏻 Steve. Great video even though there was a problem your concrete roof panels 😢 But as always you explanation of the issue is first class 👍🏻 We’re coming to Brugge on Sunday for the Christmas markets as they’re so much better than the uk 🇬🇧 ones lol 😂 Take care cheers Stevie 😎🏴
Thanks fo r the comments and enjoy Brugge
Hello, I'm roofer in Lithuania, that stuff is made here, its total rubbish. I try to talk client out of using it, but if they insist I recommend using Cembrit product, i think its polish, its noticeably less brittle.
Thank you for the advice...
Aciu
Cembrit is very good, it is very elastic and don't have any issues after 5 years. Completely different compared to Eternit. You can bend it very much and it won't crack.
Eternit was originally German and used on many Shed and Garage Roofs back in the day here in Germany in its original Form (with the Asbestos). I think it was for the time a good material but today it costs a Fortune to get it disposed and Nobody used it here. Maybe it lost the original strength when they had to replace the Asbestos with something Else - Asbestos May be unhealthy but was indeed a pretty good stuff for many things. That May be the reason why they used it in millions of products back in the day
cembrit is danish and even in Denmark we have had problems with the non-asbestos products they have made since asbestos ban in 1989.. i think cement roof sheets are of the past and we need to move on and use clay tiles or metal roof or even a bitumen roof (bitumen roofs have also gotten very weak after asbestos ban, i have 1950s bitumen paper nailed to the walls in my shed and they are almost mint condition but the metal roof on my shed also from 1950s is in mint condition, thats why metal roof is the best)
As i understood those have glassfiber instead of asbestos, which mean that the fibers should be relatively evenly distributed, so based on my own experienced from old eternit sheets whan we took them down from the roof of my old workplace the sheets should not crack this way if it was caused by stress from the bolts or people walking on them, i believe this has to do with bad bond that cause delamination between the layers cover that plastic strip as You mentioned here, at least that's the only sane explanation that come to my mind ...
Indeed, that is also my assessment, but then again I am no expert in this..
@@D3Sshooter I might be wrong, but i have no memories of those old eternit sheets ever cracking this way, i used to walk quite a lot on the old sheets, and the chimney sweeper used a ladder laying directly on them for many years there. The old type of squarehead bolt washers was made of relatively thick steel and had a hard fiber sheet instead of those modern soft rubberpads, so i don't think it was the bolts either as You said here, as You said the washer will punch a hole in the sheet insterad of breaking it if they are realy extremely owertightened.
@@D3Sshooter I'm surprised they even considered using such wide strap, that should be a metal or fiberglass mesh so that it doesn't create a wide area with no layer adhesion, that's just the cheapest packaging strap that you can get and even with plastic there would be better ways to do it.
I'm not sure why this is even done on the product side anyway, here in NZ I always see long-span roofs built with thin steel mesh installed underneath which I am guessing serves the role of fall protection, and presumably makes it safer during installation of panels too.
@@samheasmanwhite Thnak you and indeed ,
I'm sorry you had a troublle, but thank you for the great information. I am replacing my asbestos cement roof next month.
It looks like Europe and the poor guy was braine fashed. There are two tipes of asbestos one which was used in America is hazardous but other tipe is safe. Lots of studies were done about
I am surprised Eternit still exists, they were notorious for still using asbestos when it was already known it was quite dangerous.
I remember my parents removing asbestos from our house around 1986, so I am surprised to see new ones were installed in 1988.
asbestos works well as a reinforcement . nothing better . but don't breath the fibers.
Asbestos is actually a pretty amazing and wonderful material in many many ways. Of course it is also hazardous when you don't know the dangers, but the benefits are undeniable and profound. I'm not advocating for reversing legislation to prohibit asbestos in construction materials, but also if I was building in 1988 and knew that I could still use this wonder-material for a low-risk application like roofing, I would probably use it or at least seriously consider using it. Even more so in a barn/workshop where you won't be living in it all the time.
I remember having to spec replacement Big 6 sheeting in 1976 and by then all the suppliers were providing non-asbestos equivalents.
I wonder whether the sheets supplied in 1988 were old stock that the supplier had kicking around for years or was salvaged from another roof, either way by 1988 they ought not to have been supplied in the original asbestos form.
ive installed a lot of steel roofs, but never have seen panels like these in the states. i am surprised they don't have a foam backer in the high ribs where the screws go. the panels also look fairly rigid and i cannot see them expanding and contracting nicely over the seasons, especially here in the midwest. the benefit of the steel roof panels are that they are able to bend as they expand between the fasteners without causing material fatigue.
A like for the screws on top of the sheets! Great work!
This is shocking. What is it that some people just will not put their hand up and admit that they are wrong? How do they look at themselves in a mirror? How do they sleep at night? Very well done to your roofing contractor👏. I hope the company folds as a result of this.👏🇨🇮
I had a workshop with these cement sheets. I absolutely loved them until I realised how easy it was to break into my workshop by just stamping on the roof. Now I have second hand insulated walkways panels. They were designed to span a 40 ft gap and be walked on as a flat roof. Awesome. 12 inches thick in total. basically look like standard roof panels but installed with flat side up. I got them second hand and flipped them to use as normal panels. cant fault them. its like being in an underground bunker.
Ouch! I feel for you, I have had similar experiences. Paying a premium for a product that the supplier/manufacturer sold as a superior product only to discover it’s junk. I hope the manufacturer help’s or otherwise makes it right.
Thanks for sharing!, the manufacturer decided not to compensate as he claims that it was an installation fault
It's a very old trick from a company to lay the blame on the installer..
Indeed
Eternit ist ein deutsches Unternehmen und gehört der belgischen Etex .
Diese negativ Qualität und die Reklamtions Bearbeitung muss dringend den zuständigen CEO persönlich per Einschreiben berichtet werden.
Sowohl bei Etex als auch bei Eternit.
Ich habe mit anderen Unternehmen dabei die Erfahrung gemacht das der Ärger in ein positives Erlebnis gewandelt wird.
Würde mich interessieren wie es weiter geht.
Never give up !
Good luck Gerd
Thank you , will see how far this goes.
Had these - had asbestos (confirmed by specialist firm who lab tested by independent lab). I then paid to have them removed ... Annoying but it stopped a huge liability if I tried to sell it.
Cement panels without asbestos are not as durable. It really is a shame that asbestos had to be so bad for people. Such a very useful and plentiful material.
Also 100% natural.
I'll stick with my asbestos sheets roof thank you, they have been up there for 60+ years with no problem and are obviously fireproof too.
Good shoise! make sure to look for replacement tiles save if you have some , if you get a crack and need to replace a few. Even if the new ones dosent crack like happend here they are prown to frost cracks Spalding after a few frostcyklels
yep me too , i left mine on and tiled over them , good for keeping the heat in
What a good solid video. Hopefully Eternit will realise they’ve made a mega mistake in pulling the “ Big Company” move of rejecting liability for their own manufacturing mistake. Rory Steward the sales & marketing guru could probably tell them how much your video is going to cost them in lost sales because they didn’t listen and act on a positive complaint. A positive experience gets passed on to one or two people, a bad experience to ten. A video of corporate failure on TH-cam will be to the power of ten 😉
Marketing research indicates that satisfied customers typically engage roughly a dozen others in positive word of mouth promotion of a product or service while dissatisfied clients will tell their story for years to come. Case in point, I bought a new RAM 2500 pick-up and the paint began to fail (literally peel off) at 20,000 miles. Took it in under warranty and was refused regardless of an ongoing class action suit for the same issue winding its way through the courts. I took the hit, sold the truck and have never stopped telling the story of Stellantis and their sub-optimal customer service and hideous quality control. So yes, Eternit will be rewarded with lost revenues and diminished market share if enough potential buyers hear this story. I know I wouldn't use it, what a loss both monetarily as well as time in re-roofing twice while the manufacturer plays the blame game, shameful indeed.
I have a property I built as a DIY Segal all rimber house, with 3" Eternit corrugated sheeting in 1992, so not asbestos. On the whole, I am satisfied with the outcome after 30yrs, but I have found a few of the sheets have cracked in the bottom of the corrugation. I am pleased I put a roof felt on in these areas!! On a large area of roof, I put 8x4 plywood as a roof deck to enhance the timber frame structure and this was a real plus, as it allows easy safe access onto the roof!! Still seen a crack ot two here as well
Where I have had cracks, I use a fibre acrylic compund, that goes on with a brush. It seem weather and sun proof too.
Would I use Eternit again? Probably not in this case, if it needs re-roofing in my time, I will use metal sheets as cheaper, easier to lay and less risk of leaks on joints!
Asbestos Cement roofing panels were phased out in UK in 1970's although the Govt didn't ban their use until 1999. Most new AC sheeting did not contain asbestos widely from mid-1970's so you would be unlucky to have acquired AC sheeting in the asbestos form in 1988. Non-asbestos sheets in the classic 3" corrugated, Big 6 and Canada Tile are still required for repairs to existing roofs especially, since any access or work being done on the roof has a good chance of cracking the old sheets. if they are not cracked then they will last for many decades to come.
Generally, for the large (non)asbestos cement roofs, chancing the replacement of sheets is much better than replacement because of the sheer cost of replacing large industrial roof surfaces in 1000's sqm as well as the very costly disruption to the processes carried under them.
This is true for the US, but in Europe we've been using asbestos products quite lately...
@@fabienb1892 The use of Asbestos in EU was banned in 2005.
Personally I use steel. Comes in many styles. I don't have close experience with Georgia Pacific's lap siding but have heard good things. Any siding unless you are in the snow less parts of Arizona benefits with a rain drain installation.
We have a similar problem with these… we have the black coated ones and some of them have wett lines trought them from left to right when it rains. I also regret putting these on out roof…
They use this stuff in Australia a lot. It was really strong when it contained asbestos, but now it’s wood fibre, and it’s much weaker.
that's why i''m guessing support must be done properly (aka more dense pattern used etc).
Asbestos is a hazard but it was a great building component.
It was known here in the netherlands in the mid 90's that asbestos free cement panels were low quality. Degrading very fast. I'd always go for sandwich metal panels.
I think that concrete panels are a waste of time. If anyone needs to upgrade their roof you need better product. Once upon a time i changed a roof like that and i think metal is good and classic tile panels are better. I hope the new roof will be good Steve. Now you can put solar panels on that roof 😉
I can only agree.... Tiles are not possible here due to angle of the roof
Standard cement eave lining is made from multiple sheets like your roof material, the old asbestos sheeting is one consistent layer which is super brittle with age but won't seperate in layers
Ok, I see ... that could explain some of it
I’m quite surprised you didn’t put down any boards to spread the weight of walking over them
Asbestos free. That's your problem.
In my part of the world, all the old fences were asbestos cement sheets. Tough as. But then they made replacement cellulose cement sheets to replace them. And they crack just looking at them the wrong way.
Can I ask why you did not go for metal in the first place?
Thank you for this video! I'm in the same situation with the asbestos panels that are pretty much falling apart at this point. We've considered a metal roof but are concerned about the noise it'll produce during a heavy rain- or hailstorm. After seeing this video I'd rather have some noise (sorry neighbours!) than having to replace the roof within a year. Did you need to make any additions or adjustments to the roof skeleton, or did the metal panels bolt nicely into the existing wooden beams?
No adjustments needed in my case and the noise is far less, as I have 4cm insulation on the panels, so you don't get drip and less noise...
You should have been offered full compensation for the concrete panels and the time, Insulated steel panels has never been no trouble especially if you buy the palsitol coated on the outside of the sheets 🇬🇧🇮🇪.
The panels cracked because the steel expanded and contracted more than the concrete. To prevent this, you would need to make the drill holes much larger. I suspect that you would notice the cracked panels start toward the middle of the roof width. I think that this is a design issue with the product and should not be installed on a steel girder roof of the width of your shop. They might be okay if they can float on a steel roof that's just a few panels wide, but not on your wide roof with the installation method used for a length-stable wood roof.
Maybe those panels are more brittle than normal, but I think they were too tightly fixed. In summer heat panels expanded and gradually pressure built up- not quite sharply and quickly like few minutes but few hours adding stedily pressure.
Metal panels have their own problems, for some reason wind can create much stonger uplifting forces than other materials. So in windy areas this can be issue. Also can make allkinds of noises, from ticking in summer heat to loud banging.
He said that the checked the torque as the bolts were installed.
Normally the under panel needs a bigger hole where they are overlapping, so the panels have movement.
Do the cement panels have _any_ flex at all, or just totally rigid? Are they totally flat (left to right), or have a slight curve? If they are totally rigid, and totally straight, then after you place the panel on the adjoining one, the middle of the panel is unsupported (- only touching on far left and right ends), so huge stress in the centre. Many years ago, I was installing a roof with approx foot-square tiles, and about 5-10% of them broke over the coming days - it turned out they were fresh off the production line and had not sat in the yard for any time at all - it normally takes a month or so for cement products to get full strength.
I think it's a freeze thaw issue. When water gets in and freezes it cracks a little more and let's more water in. Several cycles of this splits all the way along.
Thing is we did not get any frost..
The problem with metal sheet roofs is they collect condensation on the underside during the winter which then rains down inside the building
Cement/ asbestos roofs don't get the condensation
Not the one I have , as there is 40mm insulation under-need and a anti drip shield, those without , have indeed that issue
YEAH YOU GOT THE NIGHT SHIFT PANELS
Monday nighr shift lol
Real interesting that these failed. Maybe with getting samples to a concrete testing lab to see if the cement is the correct spec and see if there are any weaknesses. There must be specs for the sheet u couod refer too. Maybe use weld crack detection spray on some of the better sheet to see if there are hidden cracks and if so where to the propagate from. Interns of fitment were the sheets laid flat and relaxed before screwing ie no stress due to screwing. Also were the drilled hole large enough to allow movement of the sheet. The long national cracks could be an indicator of the sheet bing stressed.
Thanks for the comments, in terms of holes, they do not need to be pre-drilled if the RVS bolds/screws are used are per instruction PDF. It is exactly those we used. Besides that , it is only the middle wave that breaks and not the second wave where we have the same bolds.
@ ok was the sheet primate correctly. One side is designed to sit on top of the previous sheet. And the other side is very slightly longer to sit on top of the wood. Very hard to spot the difference. It will be the same on that new metal sheeting
Did they explain what you had done wrong when they inspected?
9:21 And it definitly was!
""Panels are not installed correctly and need to be bolted down on wave 2 and if so desired wave 4 and 5... , to much torque on the bolds". The funny part is that the panels were bolted dow on wave 2 and 4-5 and the torque was normal... I agree that there were a few panels on wave 1, but those did not crack... "
I guess wave 1 is the overlapping one.... and that is the problem....
Is it possible that when you received the delivery that the panels were too (green) new and the cement was still soft from production and they dried out with air movement when they were installed and contracted and cracked!!!!!!
Who knows, but as the only broke at 4 or 5 wave I doubt it
Unless you have small tiles with good support under and secured with screws often enough I would not trust anything but a metal roof, preferably heavy galvanisation and powder based painted. My dream is to try stainless, but that would sadly be one expensive roof!
According to me, it is obvious the panels are faulty, and if this manufacturer is going to keep selling a faulty product, it won't last long in such a competitive market.
That is also my view
was the support (length between etc) of the panels by the instructions? looks like cracking under load (could be just you walking over, snow etc)
in the usa they made transite panels like this with asbestos. i have them on my industrial building built around 1920-1940. they are still fine as siding they were not used on the roof. it's over 200,000 ft sq. so we leave them alone . no problem. they switched to non asbestos some time ago . do idea if they are any good.
transite made many products with asbestos cement including large water pipe for drinking water . there are videos of them being made on youtube.centrifugally cast in pipe molds that spin. after like 50 years they did fail.
The installer will never use this product again. The manufacturer just lost a chunk of business over this.
Informative
It seems to me it could be the difference in thermal expansion properties between the wood frame and the cement panels
I didnt even know that you could still buy eternit. I have only seen the old asbestos roofing or wall coverings. But that being said what a crappy roof especially when it cracked so easily. I wonder how it would stand up against the big snow loads we get in Sweden 😶
Was the old roof leaking? why change the panels?
That sucks, also it probably stings many people like you even more to know if they had bought the right type high quality metal roof in the 1980s they might still have several decades life left in them and no government decisions demanding their removal.
Wow I am shocked. I thought these were a premium manufacturer brand. Personally I would be sending those panels to get them tested somewhere. No way was that caused by one over tight screw fixing. These panels should last decades
Indeed , they should...
Here's my 2 cents: the asbestos was used by a reason. Fire retardant, improved particle coalescence during the mix.
They use Spanish style concrete title roofs in the USA, they don't hold up well. Steel or aluminum roofs are better than most other options.
Also my view
@D3Sshooter The concert tiles seem to often fail in under twenty years and cause trouble even when new, they crack, break, and leak.
@@MS-ig7ku Thank you
Thousands of farms in Uk are currently covered with fibre cement panels on steel frames with no problems , they dont do so well on your wooden purlins since are prone to
movement from moisture , their weakness is they do absorb moisture then freeze , i have 2 buildings with fibre cement that have been painted and definately seem to be in better condition after 5 years , another advantage of fibre cement is they dont condensate in the cattle barns
Regards
Only thing you could do better is drilling under water/wax or something like that which should be in the instructions OFC. But for roofing material this is strange to be needed. Looks like case of bad quality material. Good luck with the solving!
Thermal movement i guess you would have to leave bolts so loose they might leak under hurricane conditions.
That is also true, although the installation guide advice is a slight movement of the rubber seal
IT'S A STANDARD PROBLEM WITH THOSE SHEETS THEY DON'T LAST LONG WE HAVE SEEN MANY ROOFS THAT ARE 8-10 YEARS OLD THEY ARE LIKE PAPERBOARD TOTALLY DISSOLVED. AND MANY RECORDS CRACK QUICKLY THE MANUFACTURER ALWAYS DENYS THAT IT IS THEIR FAULT
Thank you for the comments, that is very interesting to read
They could call it The Fall-Apart Layer.
If they left out the plastic then there would be one homogenous layer that was stronger than that delaminated nonsense.
I used similar Canalite panels in France and they were so strong you could have a party on the roof.What's so wrong with these ones that they thought they would need 'reinforcement'?
so the issue was you got something that was far inferior to the original panels?
Seems like it although the price was enough
@@D3Sshooter It really is a shame that there no longer seems to be any guarantee of quality just because the price is high.
The nice thing is, you can recycle the metal roof later
I have done a few clad ovet old sheets don't remove them and acts as insulation.the new sheets were a bad batch of sheets i have see it before on 3 or 4 year old sheets they all broke on 3rd ridge from the overlap side .
Thank you and dependding on how countt the same happens here
water probably got between the layers were that ribon was and once the temp dropped it froze and cracked
Eternit doing what it does best.
yep
its almost like heat and cold have no effect on cast cement/concrete...?
yep
I feel sure that the company said something like government is know to do and that is We have investigated ourselves and have found no wrongdoing.
Well, are you sure that install guidance approved walking on top of the already installed panels as seen in the video?
yes, I am as that is approved as long as one steps on or near the bolds or where the rafters are
Would you recommend all roof workers to use hoverboards during the process?
@@matthewjenkins1161 platforms made from boards to distribute the load over many waves and panels. Plus installing the panels for the whole height of the roof in sequence. In the video the whole bottom row of the roof was installed at once with the crew stomping over installed panels while installing next rows. 100-kg persons stepping repeatedly on the same waves is pretty good way for developing cracks in these cement panels. I would say it *is* the installation technique that caused the cracks.
I wonder about this too, i'd like to know if the top row of panels failed too. if so it's not that, no one would be walking on the top row. In any case, mistake or not. Its a shame they would need to be babied that much more than steel and asbestos.
Faulty materials plain and simple they should pay for replacement..
Indeed, and thanks
Poor quality ferro cement panels.
Those panels look to be a lot less dense than the asbestos based ones.
The new glass fiber ones are a lot lighter than I can remember the Everite products. Part of the thing that kept them in place was the weight.
My father used to work for Everite and the Big Six sheets weighed a lot , yes trapping your fingers was a lesson learned.
I got the job of sticking this tar infused foam along the top cap covers as I was the lightest.
In the uk we would have to have fall arest mesh hung underneath the beams in order to do the job.
One slip and you are falling a long way.
how snug were the bolts through the panel hole?
No expert, Can see this happening as the panel pushes/pulls against the bolts due to thermal expansion/contraction, maybe the holes need to be slightly larger or the bolts slightly thinner...
watch the video ... all to specification
@@MrAdopado reread what I wrote.
Specifications can be wrong.
You probably had a bad batch of sheets or a dropped pallet I have wound mine down with an impact driver and never ever had these crack.
The farmers next door to me had a shed built and when the pallet of sheets was delivered the forklift driver dropped the pallet. Over the next 20 years all the sheets cracked.
All eternit roofs in the faroe islands that are pre finished loose all paint within 5 years and crack at all edges
Sorry Prof steve for being out of agenda. But we are still waiting for that video series of car sensors how they work how to test functionality.
Moshitoa south Africa
Sure, although I need to take care of the house and workshop as well
Very strange, never encounter this kind of problem after working with asbestos free panels since 25 years. Maybe bad series...
Use steel or aluminum only.
‘Fall through tape’😂 It looks like, and is even textured like, that plastic parcel banding. If I understand its purpose, it doesn’t add strength or crack resistance, its job is to provide a ‘safety net’ under a worker if the panel disintegrates under foot. Of course if you fall between tapes it won’t help.
Try some old fashioned roof tiles
That will not work as the angle of the roof is to narrow
Where are you from?
He’s from Belgium.
It’s obviously a manufacturing fault. They should not be delaminating like that after just a year. That would have nothing to do with the installation.
Indeed, and thanks for the comments
DAMAGED IN TRANSPORT OR FAULTY MANUFACTURE
WRONG SPACING OR OVERTIGHTENING WOULD NOT CAUSE LONGITUDINAL CRACKS
Sue eternit. It's not like the company has the best record lol
That is so true...
😂
azberstos missing
I replaced everything with 0.6mm metal panels...the cement ones always cracked.