One of my favorite episodes ever. The sacred work of individuation in the face of strong cultural expectations is mysterious, and this discussion goes a long way toward supporting this journey. Thank you.
What a beautifully eloquent discussion. There was so much I could relate to from my personal life experience, including the way I’ve negotiated (deo concendente) a passage through. Jung and fellow travellers on the road to individuation have been of enormous assistance in differentiating these challenging circumstances we find ourselves in. Re politics: I’m from the UK and can’t fathom the political loyalty, madness and division in the US right now. It’s bewildering, even tho we have had extreme influences from the US leaking toxic material - and doubtless having influence - in my country too. The long reach of your discussion was so informative from both a personal and collective POV. Thank you. Having thankfully elected a centrist government which feels like some sanity has returned to the UK, I hope that the US electorate vote wisely. Whatever you do it affects us all: we surely need a rebalance in the world not a man-toddler acting out.
I completely understand monkey #2.. What a wonderful talk! I feel as though it was very relevant to what some of us need right now. Thank you so much for sharing such brilliant insights as always🥰 I love you guys! ✌️🙏💫🥰
Wow I am half way through and I resonate so much! I am glad I was not crazy and my frustration was not me being crazy/too sensitive, I have been exactly where you are describing with my corporate finance job! The disappointment and grief was beyond myself.. This is great to hear how honestly you discuss this matter..
Confession time: I get overly emotional from frustration when I know I am not understanding something. So sometimes I have to watch these episodes multiple times. It's not hard material and you present it such a good, easy way. So it's not due to any of that. I am so glad I do keep going because I learn so much from these episodes. I just wish it wasn't so hard but I guess anything worth having is worth the effort you put in.
Don't be hard on yourself. You may be a slower auditory processer.. nothing to be shamed of. I feel as though I process slower than most so I have to listen more than once or read it again but it's like a deeper and fuller understanding after putting everything together. I'm totally listening again. Joseph went off on a brilliant tangent and I gotta hear that again.. lol.
Great episode, but let's remember: Loyalty to one's Self does not, and never should, preclude collective action. We live in a time when collective organising and action is more necessary than ever. The truly individuated person will have built enough loyalty to the Self, to afford the exposure, sacrifice and compromise needed when working alongside people with completely different personalities, for an urgent, collective purpose.
Loved this video so much. I’ve been interested in ptsd and cptsd lately and I found this highly relatable to those topics. After ptsd and cptsd it’s extremely common to have delusions and a disconnect from self and reality. The common thread of ptsd is that something unfair happened and it can not be reconciled. The feeling of hopelessness is denied and replaced with anger blame despair and resentment. Really incredible stuff here
Listening to this discussion was like personal therapy! You both identified areas in my life that I’m struggling with! The expectation of finding parental safety in work environments or relationships rang loudly for me! I’ll be listening to this again and again and making changes to my thinking! Thank you!
Love this episode and this show. I would like to unpack the thought about feeling that the expectation of equity/equality, basic healthcare, basic rights are associated with the omnipotent parent. I do understand how certain pieces of this can and should be associated but what about saying any evolved society should offer basic healthcare for example? I don’t expect my government to take care of me but I do expect that an evolved society has certain basic rights in the social contract. I guess there’s always a chance for a person or entity to not follow through on promises, but isn’t this issue more of a “social contract” we would enter into as a society and make agreements? I feel like I’m talking in circles, but I’m just trying to make that idea fit and less dissonant way… Thank you for your show !
I’m grateful for Joseph’s understanding of the importance and pain that goes with going against society. Especially now that what has been revealed to the masses about big oil/military being equated with oppression and genocide for western benefit. To know about the occupied place & watch the truth finally being exposed I’m grateful but angry and recognizing how empty any of my “told you so” statements are since October 8. There’s no way out of this mess for any of us. It’s all of us responsible for the HORRIFIC last 11 months. The world is a mess and so am I.
In other words #ONEDEEP lol just kidding 😂. I absolutely love listing to the talks yall give. The insight is priceless, the introspection should be our duty. Thank you for this amazing channel!!
I wonder if climate change denials are connected to the fantasy of security. So little attention going to such a massive change this world is going through. Thank you for this wonderful episode. I myself struggle to persuade my inner-child away from conflating my need for security with my partner's ability. We are all human doing our best with what the Fate/Life throws at us.
Always a great presentation of you guys. You give great advice relative to the time we are living in, and maybe it needs to be extreme because of extreme circumstances. It's a fucked world, that is created by us people, so what can you expect? I am sure that in primitive societies people can rely on each other. Are we not also social beings? It strikes me that you were referring to outside entities that we might depend on as 'omnipotent', so in terms of power rather than in terms of love, because that is what is lacking and results in a dark triad. The I Ching often says: It's beneficial to see the Great Man. I should suppose that you and many others are those Great People?
Being able to afford healthy food, fair pay, work circumstances, and housing. Is a basic human right.😅 Drawing that metaphor with an ominpitent parent goes too far..... We should always strive for equality and altruism. Or else where doomed. Our political party should for sure make sure people dont starve and end up homeless. Because are braines not wired yet to live in dense cities with no social structure. We lived in groups took care of eachother for 80% of our history. Now technological revolution is going too fast. Not everyone can keep up. Thats one of the reasons why our goverment has most def. The obligation to make sure humanity wont crash and take care of basic human rights. 😅
1:03:05 what if a million people Do have the same need and fantasy. What if they collectivly feel the betrayel and are fed up of it. I can guess what they are lacking. Its not that complicated.🥲
1:04:27 it can look like greed, selfishnesh coldness alooofness. Sometimes fighting for a greater cause and caring for others is necessary for revolutions to happen! What would happen? No revolutions thats for sure😅. Look at the hippymovement. ...vietnam...wasnt that beautiful that people resisted war. We should always resist war. Collectivly. Individuation and activism prob dont go well. The first is about me me me. The second about us. We have to think and care for eachother (Jerryy Sei feld was right i guess😂).
I think people need to stop blaming all their problems on politicians and using them as a scape goat and instead need to 'man up' and take full responsibility for their own problems. People nowadays are so ungrateful. No politician will ever solve our personal problems so we need to look out for our own selves and our own families.
I think he might be speaking on additional emotional baggage we ATTACH to ANY authority figure or entity. When I was a child I thought if I were president I could “just” fix things, I now know it’s much more complex to make meaningful change. I don’t think he’s saying “don’t be upset about food prices” or “ don’t take political action”…more like “ notice our assumptions about what we are loyal to” It is a good time to question what we assume about how to fix these problems, at least that’s the vibe I got❤
Agreed. The provision of food, housing and security have nothing to do with omnipotent fantasy, they are the expressions of a healthy society and healthy parental responsibility.
Dorothy discovers that the Wizard cannot grant her request to go home…ONLY she herSELF has the power….(and she’s had it the whole time all along). She clicks her feet which are her means of conveyance on her own path forward and not the fantasy path that she was on on the yellow brick road.
Most of the comments here have to do with politics, which is not the same as governance. We have not "enjoyed" governance for a long time and people evolve faster than governments. I see people are loyal to governmental solutions even more than any particular party, with the latter being a false distraction (since all parties are bought by corporations). It's time to look at what we do have control over, which is our own healing, our own attachments, even in a context where systems seem to be on the verge of collapse. This past year, I have become disillusioned with Family Court, many of which are corrupt as corrupt can be in preying on families for money and sometimes even trafficking children to abusers who further traffick those children. I've had experience in a fake court in CA and a real court in WI, but they both portray themselves as legitimate courts that produce legitimate orders. I used to want to believe in the law as a solution. It is not even close. It is part of the problem. When it's all over, will we regret where we channelled our focus and energy, what we celebrated and ignored? It is never a waste to be bonded with our own children. As a humanity, we have not adequately processed the shadow of how children are allowed to be mistreated and even preyed upon. We were all children. There is a child inside each of us. Let's focus on what matters.
"As a humanity, we have not adequately processed the shadow of how children are allowed to be mistreated and even preyed upon." Well said, @woodspriteful. It occurs to me that your sentiment is particularly true of adolescence, which is open season on the heart of humanity in countless ways, from the mind- and emotion-numbing group-think social engineering of so-called "middle" school to the normalizing of substance abuse, sexual promiscuity, and contempt for age and wisdom (core themes of the dominant culture) during "high" school. At a certain point it becomes pure delusion to think these attributes are bugs in the program of what is presented as education: they are essential features of the dominant culture. And while I fully agree that a focus on what we can control (e.g. our own healing and attachments) is an essential and fundamental component of personal and cultural maturation, IMHO if we are to genuinely address the shadow of contemporary childhood, we will also have to ask very hard questions about who (and what) is behind the so-called policies which have produced corporate education, corporate politics, corporate economics, corporate agriculture, and the complex of problems which emerge from these destructive and heartless structures. when humanity embraces such a self-reflective process (personally and collectively), comes to fully understand how profoundly it has been deceived, and finds the courage to face the confusion and grief inherent in the loss of received wisdom and false narratives as a precursor to new understanding and perspective on our origins and capacities, the capacity for genuine cultural transformation will become possible. but without doing such depth and breadth work individually and collectively, i fear humanity will continue its well-rehearsed and favored pattern of the 20th century: rearranging the deck chairs on the metaphorical Titanic. 🌿
I have experienced the corruption in the system myself, so things are unraveling. I thought I could expect fairness and went into court seeking equity and I got a system interested in putting its needs before the people using it.
Not to be a communist about it but labor provides everything, in this analogy we are the mother providing the care and labor without which corporations would not exist and its important we never forget that, the illusion is that labor is powerless and inconsequential!!!
In the discussion of individuation as taking complete responsibility for ourselves ignores the impact of financial, market and cultural forces that are controlled and manipulated by those who have (perhaps motivated by infantile drives) accrued massive power to themselves. Your talk reminds me of Ayn Rand, who advocated for complete independence without any institutional support, and yet, at the end of her life, relied on government support for medical care. Your discussion would have more resonance if it included the psychology of the group or tribe or community and our obligations to one another, in other words, the collective.
The dream seems to be very food-based. The crocodile being the obesity, the kittens being the unknowing innocence of not realizing the full effects, as the younger and thinner version of the mother still cutting vegetables. The water is outside circumstances or feeling it couldn’t have been stopped. I would imagine the obesity had a detrimental effect on the mother’s health, leading to her death. The daughter didn’t suffer the same consequences from diet, which is why she didn’t get wet despite the flooding.
So what is my Jungian dark issue that caused my entire family, narcissistic mother, enabler father, sister to shun you because you expressed concern about your mother's drinking as she was getting drunk in front of my children at nearly every gathering. She responded with narcissistic rage. She then further lashed out by telling lies about me. Noone has ever asked my side. I haven't spoken to a living relative in 18 years. I am completely ostracized
What if the true development of the Self, is one where imagination is not throttled to death, because it appears creativity & imagining, storytelling & "myth" is an essential element of the human species. ...that we were driven to express this unique modality no matter how sophisticated, how organizing, the particular culture was. And democratic cultures seemed historically, to let that creative expression lead to great progresses in all areas of life. I'm saying it rather poorly, but most early societies began by emphasizing obedience, in order for society to survive. So this tension between obey (especially as the religions began to codify, expectations & law) & freedom, has been an eternal struggle! I love the ancient Greeks, who had a goddess of just retributions. A goddess of justice, whom even Zeus & the other gods, feared... The goddess's name was from the greek verb, "nemo" meaning "to give what is due", the goddess known as NEMESIS. So, as the Athenian empire & democracy was coming to an end, after only 200 years, in the farthest, most rural area in Attica, one of 139 demes making up the Athenian state, the citizens at Ramnos, mostly farmers, decided and voted for, a grand new temple for Nemesis. So, they collected the tax monies, utilized what resources they had, and voted to build a temple, to this goddess of justice. The ruins of her temple are still there. Perhaps they felt there wasn't equal representation of their small farming deme, at the great Assembly in Athens (which met every nine days). Farmers versus big-city folk. (How many times has this scenario repeated itself in the West?) Even the oldest surviving epic, Gilgamesh, is about the "civilizing" process when Enkido the wild man, is brought to the city to be the wild King's friend... And yet few severly oppressed cultures, rise-up to create new things & progress. Freedom versus slavery. Revolution did occur in Athens, and they created the vote & democracy. (In fact, notions of "free speech" came out of Athenian comic theatre, where politicians were ruthlessly criticized & poked fun of, vwallah, free speech, lol. Mob rule destroyed the first democracy in history, after long years of war and eventual end to their empire, and their democracy. ...just as we now suffer. Cults, religions, & mobs, are overturning most basic principles of the Constitution, and consequences of pro-life movements/laws is leading to scared physicians and a quickly rising MATERNAL MORTALITY, 46% rise in my red state alone from 2-years ago,, of dead women from bleeding out during miscarriage, and no one to help them! Needlessly dead women. Or appointments to our largest health institutions, of antivaxxers & other kooks totally unqualified & whose beliefs do not match the scientist's data! (Im thinking of rfk junior and doc ozzzz). Rational decisions, policies, and consequences, are slipping away in the emotional upheavals of our emotional times. Not a good sign. We have at our disposal, all the wisdom of history, yet we foolishly believe ourselves more evolved, lol. And human nature, exactly the same as it ever was, seems unable to be anything more than an emotional, hormonal, bunch of nerves, that must be controlled by leaders whether religious or secular. But what if we've a gap in our history, in how all those control measures were codified, by religions & by other leaders, into structuring societies & cultures, to work the best possible way, in gender roles, priestly castes, work, and education. It may be the ancient peoples had experiences we're unaware! And they took those cues, literally! A primordial time when the heavens spoke, and the archetypical myths, traditions, and stories, AS ABOVE, SO BELOW, were created: th-cam.com/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IRd3UXiMNRIamdEI SYMBOLS OF AN ALIEN SKY, documentary on YT by The Thunderbolts Project. ...where Plasma Science & the archetypes, meet! ;)
I hate this premise that if the mom was there you get a healthy attachment style. What if you aren’t used to your mom being absent, then if your partner is late you will panic. Or if your mom didn’t allow you to feel negative emotions. Won’t you be overwhelmed?
The “funnel,” of insecure adult attachment affect, is the great reductive common denominator of human behavior… In other words, “Do anything, and I’ll show you how your search for love from your caregivers (as an infant), repels or magnetizes your adult search for that same love not found, so long ago!”
🤔 Im not sure that advocating that people circumscribe their possibilities is better that inflating people's sense of those same possibilities😳 on the whole, whatever people tell themselves is true: you're a loser, or, you're amazing. Its not a gift to limit people's ideas of what they can achieve or be😢 you are projecting your own values and experience when you do so😣😫
disagree. If you never feel like a loser then how are you going to be motivated to improve. Speaking from experience my mom always told me, you can do anything you want to. You're incredible. You're smart. I never felt stupid or incapable, but those feelings can be powerful motivators. When you think you are incredible, and then you fuck up, you feel a complete and overwhelming sense of failure if you were never allowed to feel bad. And the feeling of failure is confusing because you haven't learned how to react to it. sorry trauma dumping. what u said is true. its good to validate your kids but don't be afraid to let them struggle!! but also don't over validate them. tell them they are capable, but not perfect
Feeling the feelings of mourning is not accepting the maladjustment we had to make when quite young, but as adults we see those were mistaken beliefs we told ourselves when quite young, and therefore e get closer to our actual selves inside. It does not include the judgements we were told or tell ourselves.
Telling people that they can do anything they believe in is a sweet sentiment, but not one that should be pressed once kids get old enough to understand context. I wish my aspirations weren't so high, I'd likely be much happier in life.
Having had two children, I challenge the idea of Orouboric bliss in that third trimester. Baby is very cramped into a restricted space by then. The biological process of birth is triggered by the release of hormones by the baby!! And yes, the process of birth is difficult.
A baby may not be in a state of bliss at any moment during the pregnancy for a number of reasons and the biological process of birth is kickstarted (by natural means) earlier than some would like. There are also other babies who seem very comfortable in their mother's womb and the birthing process needs to be initiated externally.
Wouldn’t a libertarian be more realistic in the sense that mommy Kamala and daddy Trump aren’t actually perfect and that each party is stretching truths and making false promises. They have a healthy pessimism that the parent isn’t always going to take care of things
One of my favorite episodes ever. The sacred work of individuation in the face of strong cultural expectations is mysterious, and this discussion goes a long way toward supporting this journey. Thank you.
I felt similarly, it’s one of my favourites so far 😊
My soul needed to listen to this today. Thank you.
What a beautifully eloquent discussion. There was so much I could relate to from my personal life experience, including the way I’ve negotiated (deo concendente) a passage through. Jung and fellow travellers on the road to individuation have been of enormous assistance in differentiating these challenging circumstances we find ourselves in.
Re politics: I’m from the UK and can’t fathom the political loyalty, madness and division in the US right now. It’s bewildering, even tho we have had extreme influences from the US leaking toxic material - and doubtless having influence - in my country too. The long reach of your discussion was so informative from both a personal and collective POV. Thank you. Having thankfully elected a centrist government which feels like some sanity has returned to the UK, I hope that the US electorate vote wisely. Whatever you do it affects us all: we surely need a rebalance in the world not a man-toddler acting out.
I completely understand monkey #2..
What a wonderful talk! I feel as though it was very relevant to what some of us need right now. Thank you so much for sharing such brilliant insights as always🥰 I love you guys!
✌️🙏💫🥰
Thank u, master teachers and i am grateful for ur on going support and encouragement
Wow I am half way through and I resonate so much! I am glad I was not crazy and my frustration was not me being crazy/too sensitive, I have been exactly where you are describing with my corporate finance job! The disappointment and grief was beyond myself.. This is great to hear how honestly you discuss this matter..
Confession time: I get overly emotional from frustration when I know I am not understanding something. So sometimes I have to watch these episodes multiple times. It's not hard material and you present it such a good, easy way. So it's not due to any of that. I am so glad I do keep going because I learn so much from these episodes. I just wish it wasn't so hard but I guess anything worth having is worth the effort you put in.
Don't be hard on yourself. You may be a slower auditory processer.. nothing to be shamed of. I feel as though I process slower than most so I have to listen more than once or read it again but it's like a deeper and fuller understanding after putting everything together. I'm totally listening again. Joseph went off on a brilliant tangent and I gotta hear that again.. lol.
Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering. Jung. Great episode.
See “The road less traveled,” by M. Scott Peck, for tools for successful suffering.
Great episode, but let's remember:
Loyalty to one's Self does not, and never should, preclude collective action.
We live in a time when collective organising and action is more necessary than ever.
The truly individuated person will have built enough loyalty to the Self, to afford the exposure, sacrifice and compromise needed when working alongside people with completely different personalities, for an urgent, collective purpose.
Loved this video so much. I’ve been interested in ptsd and cptsd lately and I found this highly relatable to those topics.
After ptsd and cptsd it’s extremely common to have delusions and a disconnect from self and reality. The common thread of ptsd is that something unfair happened and it can not be reconciled. The feeling of hopelessness is denied and replaced with anger blame despair and resentment. Really incredible stuff here
This conversation arrives in the right time. Thanks.
Listening to this discussion was like personal therapy! You both identified areas in my life that I’m struggling with! The expectation of finding parental safety in work environments or relationships rang loudly for me! I’ll be listening to this again and again and making changes to my thinking! Thank you!
I love your dream interpretations, they help me get better at interpreting my own dreams. Thanks!
Excellent, thank u!
Love this episode and this show. I would like to unpack the thought about feeling that the expectation of equity/equality, basic healthcare, basic rights are associated with the omnipotent parent. I do understand how certain pieces of this can and should be associated but what about saying any evolved society should offer basic healthcare for example?
I don’t expect my government to take care of me but I do expect that an evolved society has certain basic rights in the social contract.
I guess there’s always a chance for a person or entity to not follow through on promises, but isn’t this issue more of a “social contract” we would enter into as a society and make agreements? I feel like I’m talking in circles, but I’m just trying to make that idea fit and less dissonant way…
Thank you for your show !
Perfect timing for this episode for me---thank you as always for the food for thought and exploration.
I thoroughly enjoyed the episode , it felt warm and inviting ..thank you
Please keep doing this! Very helpful!
I’m grateful for Joseph’s understanding of the importance and pain that goes with going against society. Especially now that what has been revealed to the masses about big oil/military being equated with oppression and genocide for western benefit. To know about the occupied place & watch the truth finally being exposed I’m grateful but angry and recognizing how empty any of my “told you so” statements are since October 8. There’s no way out of this mess for any of us. It’s all of us responsible for the HORRIFIC last 11 months. The world is a mess and so am I.
In other words #ONEDEEP lol just kidding 😂. I absolutely love listing to the talks yall give. The insight is priceless, the introspection should be our duty. Thank you for this amazing channel!!
Great episode!
I wonder if climate change denials are connected to the fantasy of security. So little attention going to such a massive change this world is going through. Thank you for this wonderful episode. I myself struggle to persuade my inner-child away from conflating my need for security with my partner's ability. We are all human doing our best with what the Fate/Life throws at us.
Always a great presentation of you guys.
You give great advice relative to the time we are living in, and maybe it needs to be extreme because of extreme circumstances. It's a fucked world, that is created by us people, so what can you expect? I am sure that in primitive societies people can rely on each other. Are we not also social beings? It strikes me that you were referring to outside entities that we might depend on as 'omnipotent', so in terms of power rather than in terms of love, because that is what is lacking and results in a dark triad.
The I Ching often says: It's beneficial to see the Great Man. I should suppose that you and many others are those Great People?
Being able to afford healthy food, fair pay, work circumstances, and housing. Is a basic human right.😅 Drawing that metaphor with an ominpitent parent goes too far..... We should always strive for equality and altruism. Or else where doomed. Our political party should for sure make sure people dont starve and end up homeless. Because are braines not wired yet to live in dense cities with no social structure. We lived in groups took care of eachother for 80% of our history. Now technological revolution is going too fast. Not everyone can keep up. Thats one of the reasons why our goverment has most def. The obligation to make sure humanity wont crash and take care of basic human rights. 😅
1:03:05 what if a million people Do have the same need and fantasy. What if they collectivly feel the betrayel and are fed up of it. I can guess what they are lacking. Its not that complicated.🥲
1:04:27 it can look like greed, selfishnesh coldness alooofness. Sometimes fighting for a greater cause and caring for others is necessary for revolutions to happen! What would happen? No revolutions thats for sure😅. Look at the hippymovement. ...vietnam...wasnt that beautiful that people resisted war. We should always resist war. Collectivly. Individuation and activism prob dont go well. The first is about me me me. The second about us. We have to think and care for eachother (Jerryy Sei feld was right i guess😂).
I think people need to stop blaming all their problems on politicians and using them as a scape goat and instead need to 'man up' and take full responsibility for their own problems. People nowadays are so ungrateful. No politician will ever solve our personal problems so we need to look out for our own selves and our own families.
I think he might be speaking on additional emotional baggage we ATTACH to ANY authority figure or entity.
When I was a child I thought if I were president I could “just” fix things, I now know it’s much more complex to make meaningful change. I don’t think he’s saying “don’t be upset about food prices” or “ don’t take political action”…more like “ notice our assumptions about what we are loyal to”
It is a good time to question what we assume about how to fix these problems, at least that’s the vibe I got❤
Agreed. The provision of food, housing and security have nothing to do with omnipotent fantasy, they are the expressions of a healthy society and healthy parental responsibility.
Dorothy discovers that the Wizard cannot grant her request to go home…ONLY she herSELF has the power….(and she’s had it the whole time all along). She clicks her feet which are her means of conveyance on her own path forward and not the fantasy path that she was on on the yellow brick road.
Most of the comments here have to do with politics, which is not the same as governance. We have not "enjoyed" governance for a long time and people evolve faster than governments. I see people are loyal to governmental solutions even more than any particular party, with the latter being a false distraction (since all parties are bought by corporations).
It's time to look at what we do have control over, which is our own healing, our own attachments, even in a context where systems seem to be on the verge of collapse.
This past year, I have become disillusioned with Family Court, many of which are corrupt as corrupt can be in preying on families for money and sometimes even trafficking children to abusers who further traffick those children. I've had experience in a fake court in CA and a real court in WI, but they both portray themselves as legitimate courts that produce legitimate orders. I used to want to believe in the law as a solution. It is not even close. It is part of the problem.
When it's all over, will we regret where we channelled our focus and energy, what we celebrated and ignored? It is never a waste to be bonded with our own children. As a humanity, we have not adequately processed the shadow of how children are allowed to be mistreated and even preyed upon. We were all children. There is a child inside each of us. Let's focus on what matters.
"As a humanity, we have not adequately processed the shadow of how children are allowed to be mistreated and even preyed upon." Well said, @woodspriteful.
It occurs to me that your sentiment is particularly true of adolescence, which is open season on the heart of humanity in countless ways, from the mind- and emotion-numbing group-think social engineering of so-called "middle" school to the normalizing of substance abuse, sexual promiscuity, and contempt for age and wisdom (core themes of the dominant culture) during "high" school.
At a certain point it becomes pure delusion to think these attributes are bugs in the program of what is presented as education: they are essential features of the dominant culture. And while I fully agree that a focus on what we can control (e.g. our own healing and attachments) is an essential and fundamental component of personal and cultural maturation, IMHO if we are to genuinely address the shadow of contemporary childhood, we will also have to ask very hard questions about who (and what) is behind the so-called policies which have produced corporate education, corporate politics, corporate economics, corporate agriculture, and the complex of problems which emerge from these destructive and heartless structures.
when humanity embraces such a self-reflective process (personally and collectively), comes to fully understand how profoundly it has been deceived, and finds the courage to face the confusion and grief inherent in the loss of received wisdom and false narratives as a precursor to new understanding and perspective on our origins and capacities, the capacity for genuine cultural transformation will become possible.
but without doing such depth and breadth work individually and collectively, i fear humanity will continue its well-rehearsed and favored pattern of the 20th century: rearranging the deck chairs on the metaphorical Titanic. 🌿
I have experienced the corruption in the system myself, so things are unraveling. I thought I could expect fairness and went into court seeking equity and I got a system interested in putting its needs before the people using it.
beautiful episode
Be good at what you're good at.
What about the trend of "going no contact" with one's parents over what can appear to be frivolous reasons and relatively minor grievances?
Sounds like cancel culture… you can do this in emergencies but kindness and compassion are never out of style
What an amazing dream interpretation ❤❤
Not to be a communist about it but labor provides everything, in this analogy we are the mother providing the care and labor without which corporations would not exist and its important we never forget that, the illusion is that labor is powerless and inconsequential!!!
sobering
Be loyal to oneself
In the discussion of individuation as taking complete responsibility for ourselves ignores the impact of financial, market and cultural forces that are controlled and manipulated by those who have (perhaps motivated by infantile drives) accrued massive power to themselves. Your talk reminds me of Ayn Rand, who advocated for complete independence without any institutional support, and yet, at the end of her life, relied on government support for medical care. Your discussion would have more resonance if it included the psychology of the group or tribe or community and our obligations to one another, in other words, the collective.
The dream seems to be very food-based. The crocodile being the obesity, the kittens being the unknowing innocence of not realizing the full effects, as the younger and thinner version of the mother still cutting vegetables. The water is outside circumstances or feeling it couldn’t have been stopped. I would imagine the obesity had a detrimental effect on the mother’s health, leading to her death. The daughter didn’t suffer the same consequences from diet, which is why she didn’t get wet despite the flooding.
So what is my Jungian dark issue that caused my entire family, narcissistic mother, enabler father, sister to shun you because you expressed concern about your mother's drinking as she was getting drunk in front of my children at nearly every gathering. She responded with narcissistic rage. She then further lashed out by telling lies about me. Noone has ever asked my side. I haven't spoken to a living relative in 18 years. I am completely ostracized
How do I become a jungian analyst?
PhD in psychology usually
Reality can be changed
What if the true development of the Self, is one where imagination is not throttled to death, because it appears creativity & imagining, storytelling & "myth" is an essential element of the human species.
...that we were driven to express this unique modality no matter how sophisticated, how organizing, the particular culture was. And democratic cultures seemed historically, to let that creative expression lead to great progresses in all areas of life.
I'm saying it rather poorly, but most early societies began by emphasizing obedience, in order for society to survive. So this tension between obey (especially as the religions began to codify, expectations & law) & freedom, has been an eternal struggle!
I love the ancient Greeks, who had a goddess of just retributions. A goddess of justice, whom even Zeus & the other gods, feared...
The goddess's name was from the greek verb, "nemo" meaning "to give what is due", the goddess known as NEMESIS.
So, as the Athenian empire & democracy was coming to an end, after only 200 years, in the farthest, most rural area in Attica, one of 139 demes making up the Athenian state, the citizens at Ramnos, mostly farmers, decided and voted for, a grand new temple for Nemesis. So, they collected the tax monies, utilized what resources they had, and voted to build a temple, to this goddess of justice.
The ruins of her temple are still there.
Perhaps they felt there wasn't equal representation of their small farming deme, at the great Assembly in Athens (which met every nine days). Farmers versus big-city folk. (How many times has this scenario repeated itself in the West?)
Even the oldest surviving epic, Gilgamesh, is about the "civilizing" process when Enkido the wild man, is brought to the city to be the wild King's friend...
And yet few severly oppressed cultures, rise-up to create new things & progress. Freedom versus slavery.
Revolution did occur in Athens, and they created the vote & democracy. (In fact, notions of "free speech" came out of Athenian comic theatre, where politicians were ruthlessly criticized & poked fun of, vwallah, free speech, lol.
Mob rule destroyed the first democracy in history, after long years of war and eventual end to their empire, and their democracy. ...just as we now suffer. Cults, religions, & mobs, are overturning most basic principles of the Constitution, and consequences of pro-life movements/laws is leading to scared physicians and a quickly rising MATERNAL MORTALITY, 46% rise in my red state alone from 2-years ago,, of dead women from bleeding out during miscarriage, and no one to help them!
Needlessly dead women.
Or appointments to our largest health institutions, of antivaxxers & other kooks totally unqualified & whose beliefs do not match the scientist's data! (Im thinking of rfk junior and doc ozzzz).
Rational decisions, policies, and consequences, are slipping away in the emotional upheavals of our emotional times. Not a good sign.
We have at our disposal, all the wisdom of history, yet we foolishly believe ourselves more evolved, lol. And human nature, exactly the same as it ever was, seems unable to be anything more than an emotional, hormonal, bunch of nerves, that must be controlled by leaders whether religious or secular.
But what if we've a gap in our history, in how all those control measures were codified, by religions & by other leaders, into structuring societies & cultures, to work the best possible way, in gender roles, priestly castes, work, and education.
It may be the ancient peoples had experiences we're unaware! And they took those cues, literally! A primordial time when the heavens spoke, and the archetypical myths, traditions, and stories, AS ABOVE, SO BELOW, were created:
th-cam.com/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IRd3UXiMNRIamdEI
SYMBOLS OF AN ALIEN SKY, documentary on YT by The Thunderbolts Project.
...where Plasma Science & the archetypes, meet!
;)
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I hate this premise that if the mom was there you get a healthy attachment style. What if you aren’t used to your mom being absent, then if your partner is late you will panic. Or if your mom didn’t allow you to feel negative emotions. Won’t you be overwhelmed?
The “funnel,” of insecure adult attachment affect, is the great reductive common denominator of human behavior…
In other words, “Do anything, and I’ll show you how your search for love from your caregivers (as an infant), repels or magnetizes your adult search for that same love not found, so long ago!”
🤔 Im not sure that advocating that people circumscribe their possibilities is better that inflating people's sense of those same possibilities😳 on the whole, whatever people tell themselves is true: you're a loser, or, you're amazing. Its not a gift to limit people's ideas of what they can achieve or be😢 you are projecting your own values and experience when you do so😣😫
disagree. If you never feel like a loser then how are you going to be motivated to improve. Speaking from experience my mom always told me, you can do anything you want to. You're incredible. You're smart. I never felt stupid or incapable, but those feelings can be powerful motivators.
When you think you are incredible, and then you fuck up, you feel a complete and overwhelming sense of failure if you were never allowed to feel bad. And the feeling of failure is confusing because you haven't learned how to react to it.
sorry trauma dumping. what u said is true. its good to validate your kids but don't be afraid to let them struggle!! but also don't over validate them. tell them they are capable, but not perfect
Feeling the feelings of mourning is not accepting the maladjustment we had to make when quite young, but as adults we see those were mistaken beliefs we told ourselves when quite young, and therefore e get closer to our actual selves inside. It does not include the judgements we were told or tell ourselves.
Telling people that they can do anything they believe in is a sweet sentiment, but not one that should be pressed once kids get old enough to understand context.
I wish my aspirations weren't so high, I'd likely be much happier in life.
Disruption is gonna happen again & again cuz we've created a hell of a monetary system only for the privileged & milluonaire's more & more.
Having had two children, I challenge the idea of Orouboric bliss in that third trimester. Baby is very cramped into a restricted space by then. The biological process of birth is triggered by the release of hormones by the baby!!
And yes, the process of birth is difficult.
A baby may not be in a state of bliss at any moment during the pregnancy for a number of reasons and the biological process of birth is kickstarted (by natural means) earlier than some would like. There are also other babies who seem very comfortable in their mother's womb and the birthing process needs to be initiated externally.
Unions and collective bargaining are powerful tools. Libertarians are just tools lol
🙏🏼🧡🫠 I am deeply grateful also for this episode as for so many other episodes in your pod ❣
Wouldn’t a libertarian be more realistic in the sense that mommy Kamala and daddy Trump aren’t actually perfect and that each party is stretching truths and making false promises. They have a healthy pessimism that the parent isn’t always going to take care of things
Doesn't matter to God or the Universe
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