Why Osiris champions use Aethelflaed [and maybe you should too] Rise of Kingdoms
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Most players will start using Aethelflaed again after watching this video - but the key is understanding exactly where she shines, and why she's so powerful in Rise of Kingdoms (ROK). In this video we explore the reasons why Ark of Osiris league champions use this legendary commander.
-- Chapters --
0:00 Why Aethelflaed is better than you think
4:51 AOE damage explained
7:28 Why epic commanders are dead
8:55 Aethelflaed's weakness
11:16 Aethelflaed's Debuffs
13:53 Aetheflaed Pairings & Considerations
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ARE YOU GOING TO START USING AETHEL AFTER WATCHING THIS VIDEO... OR WAS SHE ALREADY IN YOUR LINEUP? discord.gg/chisgule
How about Aethel leonidas with infantry? Crazy rage gen no cap since it’s by percentage (if I understand cctly). Using Good infantry gear, if they focus you, you’ll hit those 5 marches.. any thoughts? Btw you can use a flag and purple accessory for speed
I will try on lost canyon
@chisgule you got it a little wrong brother.
I am fairly certain you are wrong it is not 15% less from the original amount per target . It is 15% reduced from the current damage.
In other words 2k becomes 1.7k on 2 targets
3 targets 1.7k minus 15% which is 255 so 1.445 k "i think"
Now what that means, it is not as bad as minus 60%as you think, but it is still not impressive. At 5 targets it is 'roughly speaking" about 49.5% reduction.
Still big, but not nearly as bad as 60%.
I started using her long before this video, just based on your recommendation; she is STRONG!
I’ve actually been posting on how her damage isn’t reduced a few months ago to stop it from being broken, she doesn’t have a high damage factor, that’s why people tend to underestimate her’s and leonidas’s skill damage.
Thank you for a better look at the math involved. I really appreciated this format and would like to see more charts like this PLEASE!!
It's very important to know, that when you hit 5 targets by YSG (or any other hero) there's only 50% reduction (yes, it's not written in skill description). You can check this out in logs of any battle (I checked this many times and I could bet my account on this). So when you hit 5 targets you deal more damage.
I tried to rush to the comment to mention that reduction cap, but you were faster, thank you sir!
Also good to remember that ysg has 53% skill damage boost so technically damage factor is way higher
Also my understanding is that it reduces the dmg by 15% each time, not stacking from the original dmg.
1 target 1700
2 targets 1700x0.85 x2= 1445 x2 = 2890
3 targets 1445x0.85 x3= 1228x3= 3684
4 targets 1228x0.85 x4= 1044x4= 4176
5 targets 1044x0.85 x5= 887x5= 4436
👀
Important to note that Aethelfled has a semi circular area of effect, which is also really good !
No, it is written in skill and it is correct. The 15% is not substracted from the original value. It is from The current value.
Calculate it that way and you always end up at 50%
You don't need to bet. John wick proved the numbers in his aoe video. You are 100% correct unless its been changed
Great video, but think you should of talked about ysg and sun tzu's 4th skill, when you are -60% skill damage those does a HUGE difference 😋
Hey Chis, is the damage reduction by target definitely calculated that way? From the way it's written, and from the damage dealt when I'm barb-chaining with YSG, I always thought the reduction impacted each subsequent target individually rather than a blanket reduction to all targets. So target 2 is -15% damage from target 1, target 3 is -15% from target 2, and so on.
I thought I might be wrong so I just went and tested with YSG again, and I still think it impacts each subsequent target rather than all targets based on the total number of enemies hit.
For cav player, as a support march to help slow enemies and chase, put Ae behind Saladin (with 1 point in the slow talent in the support tree). For infantry player, keep Ae behind Richard (if you have him maxed), that march is very helpful in catching troops returning from rallies, especially cav.
This works like a charm, its what I used to do until I had all calvary marches
Interesting. Thanks for the awesome video
Great video as always! Honestly if Aethl aoe hits 5 targets, she would be already dead since these 5 marches will easily target her, as you mentioned.
Nice clip, thank you
Question, won't Aethel still melt down fast just like in kvk scenario? So the 4-6seconds she's alive you give out some damage. Idk if that's so good that you would run her instead of someone that has survivability..
the main reason why many OL teams use Aethelfled is cz her speed is insane. museum and talent offers her decent speed. The most important factor of OL is speed. that is also why cav is the best type of troops in OL. very simple and very important.
(and of course 5 target insane debuff 1st skill and synergy with trajan is also vvv nice)
“Your probably gonna start using her at the end of the video”
Me: who is to weak to fight in Osiris: Ehm, ok
hello, i got a question. i am in a kingdom that now going to the end of KVK1 and i got alot of friends that are in a kingdom that is in SoC they asked me to migrate to them after this kvk is it worth it? or should i stick around and wait till this accound in SoC is?
She is also a free commander which is insane. Everyone should have one!
Hey chisgule I want to ask you something real quick should I invest in ye seong gye commander or not. And is. He still useful in late game or not?
Is expertised aethelfled a better secondary for bjorn or expertised sun tsu?
my joan prime is 5111 i have 300 Gold Heads saved my aeth isnt in my lineup and i only have 3 marches to fight should i consider pairing them together?
Also, when you use Joan Prime primary, her Sacred Banner skill will hit harder upon its recast with aethelfalead debuffs and, her slow dmg boost for slowed targets
Is it viable for sunset ?
I tried Saladin + Aeth first, then I split those two commanders. It does pretty good job. Althou I use Aeth more for buff or debuff march with Joan Epic then let other commander do the damage
Are there any other options for Mulan as a secondary than Trajan & Aethel?
Even after watching this video I never stopped using Aethel.
Aethelflaed I dont understand her 5th skill +20% dmg to target thats slowed, how do you make them slowed
Do the Osiris champions all also use YSG in their marches like they use Aethel?
As a kvk2 player, i can confidently say that the only reason why i didn't COMPLETELY regret my investment on richard before knowing how much busted ysg was, is because i legitimately think that the most optimal vay to run Richard on open field on kvk1 and 2 is to rum him with Aethelfled. You may have aethelfled primary for extra rage and march speed or Richard primary for more tankiness and to GUARANTEE aethel's expertise proc at every skill cycle, plus you can add extra attack by running mixed troops and not infantry only even tho you lose a tiny bit on 3rd skill, so i'm really happy that Aethelfled has its place in SoC meta, "justifying" my mistake of loading richard
Thanks:)
i'm using aethel since i expertised her, back in my kvk2... Right now she's behinnd BoudicaP. I also had her as primary for a long time....
What is the talent tho? For ark
NO WAY you just posted this video right after I told myself that your last Aethelflaed vid was too outdated....
Hey Chis, aoe damage reduction effects for 5 targets are capped at 50% meaning you can't go below it. There was some testings done by Wick for this months back and from experience. Hope you can acknowledge. Thanks
Is aethal then still the best with AOE 5 targets? Or are there other commanders who take the crown?
Thanks for the info! I can certainly look into this, and I'll add that while this is interesting I don't think it changes the overall guidance around the value of Aethel.
@@Chisgule it doesn't and still 100% good. But just for OL. She gets horrible trades in kvk
@@gjinro743 winning kvk ia not about good trades.
@@ramos_pinho117 it’s definitely a part of it
thanks for this great video!
In OL gets used because of the debuff and the march speed which is a key factor for OL. And if you Individualy wanna get benefit from athel is to paie her with trajan that's it and no one goes for trajan until they reach their 4th or 5th march... no one uses a commander for the benefit of their allies, there are too many scenarios where you can say you can use him or not I think that should have been explained more in terms of understanding more clearly
Thx bro
I am convinced i should use aethelflaed in my lineup.
The reason to use athel primary is very simple.
You want trajan rage buff to start after rejuvenate not at the same time . This way you get insanely fast skill cycles.
Chisgule, at this point in the game, what are some good secondary’s to Trajan for open field? Most vids I see are very, very old. Thanks!
I like Scipio. Aethel and Mulan are also common. I’m not in love with harald as a secondary but it does work.
Aethefled is by far the best value in the game without exception.
How about Aethel leonidas with infantry? Crazy rage gen no cap since it’s by percentage (if I understand cctly). Using Good infantry gear, if they focus you, you’ll hit those 5 marches.. any thoughts? Btw you can use a flag and purple accessory for speed
@Abyss thanks 👍
@Abyss Guan 5515 and Leo 5511 ??
I wonder how Sargon/Aethel would be for ark if you are already running Guan/Scipio and dont have Trajan?
I'm in my 6th Season of Conquest KVK and been using Aethel forever, normally second to Saladin, now Second to Charles. Love her. With so many debuffers now (e.g. Scipio or Nevsky) I've been pondering replacing her. But still use it.
Try richard he is better
kind sir: I don't use athe for her damage. I use her for her debuff. First of all, I travel always with 10 marches. I use two accounts. Anyways, I carry two athel in my ten march. I use Athe/sipio all infnatry with peace keeping build (for the speed). My athe is as fast as any cav. But, here is the most important thing: Athe has 2 seconds of health debuff. Sipio then follows on with 3 more seconds of 30% health debuff. It works seamlessly. I get so much up time on my health debuff that my enemy melts. vs my ten march swarm. Cheeers. Thee is great synergy in the Ath/sipio pairing. It is as fast as all the cavs, and it does incredible debuff, and incredible damage as well (ie becuase sipio is secondary, sipio always gets to hit a target that is always debuffed to 30%,/ 30%,/ 30%). cheers.
@@iamSUKR LOL. troll.
@@pokerchannel6991 i like that pair people focus on killing richard first but they all die so fast coz no one focus the meta, they get greedy for kills and focus Richard first
@@pokerchannel6991 wow, never thought about that honestly, thanks for the insight. May I ask if you use infantry gear special talented for leadership on this march then?
Hello everyone can I ask something? If you max your hospital with kvk buff and the buff ends do your troops die that are too many or stay?
They stay, but any new troops that would enter your hospital will die.
@@Chisgule thank you brother 💪
Hey chisgule... being ch25 and lv60 commander gives 200k troops right... how do I get it to 210k base?
Vip14
You might want to check this...When I'm barb hunting with YSG, and he hits 5 targets - they are all different big red numbers. I think the first target is hit at 100%. The second target is 15% less. The third target is 30% less, 4th is 45% less, and the 5th is 60% less...Not ALL of them are dropped by the highest total...
I had a similar instinct, but I think that's because you're hitting different level barbs which have different amounts of defensive stats. You'd have to set up a controlled environment to really test the mechanic rather than observing from AOE barbing.
@@Chisgule That, my friend, is a really good point! Now I'm going to have to look into this...Suddenly, my YSG isn't as sexy if this is true!
@@TheClawNinja don't worry your ysg is good because the reduction of skill damage is capped at 50% and he still does a lot of damage
So relics will apply in canyon when you're in soc?
Yes, museum buffs apply
15% reduction does not happen on original value everytime. It will be more like 100%, 85%, 72.25%( 85%*85%), 61.4% (85%*85%*85), 52.2% (....)..So minimum skill damage will be 52.2% for 5 targets..
Also i believe the only reason sun tzu is less impressive he is than his number per 5 show is his aoe. Sadly it almost never hits 5 in sunset or lost canyon
Niceeeeee
Hey Chisgule Gaming you got sun tzu damage factor wrong …it’s 1000 plus his forth skill
Yo chis i saw 60GT using richard aethel in kvk openfield and almost 70% were using it, even i love it because it slows downs enemy march and kvk tech gives huge march speed
u must be joking 70% of 60GT using richard aethf on the field?
Maybe you were seeing them using richard to buff rallies
@chisgule you got it a little wrong brother.
I am fairly certain you are wrong it is not 15% less from the original amount per target . It is 15% reduced from the current damage.
In other words 2k becomes 1.7k on 2 targets
3 targets 1.7k minus 15% which is 255 so 1.445 k "i think"
Now what that means, it is not as bad as minus 60%as you think, but it is still not impressive. At 5 targets it is 'roughly speaking" about 49.5% reduction.
Still big, but not nearly as bad as 60%.
Me, who already used Aethelfled as my main march all this time
Could YSS&Aeth work with open field? Asking for my farm.
I do YSS YSG for my farm in ceroli assault lol. That’s in part because all my gear is on YSS for defending my city and I haven’t made sets for field. But keep in mind Aethel only really scales up in value when you’re hitting lots of stuff.
I use cc eathel as my second altar march and it does really well for support. Would do a lot better but cc is only cav commander I have that’s in a good spot till I finish maxing scipio
Used aerthel cc too. Great! How about Aethel leonidas with infantry? Crazy rage gen. Using Good infantry gear, if they focus you, you’ll hit those 5 marches.. any thoughts? Btw you can use a flag and purple accessory for speed
@@morecroutonsplease4582 dont have leo but might be focused hard..the good thing with cc is every 1 mostly ignores you as they dont see you as a threat lol... i run good cav gear on cc as i dont have a good cav commander skilled yet. so the pair is kinda a ignored cannon :)
@@kuburog2267 great pair specially as you say if you add good gear. Btw Right now in SOC we are fighting level 14 forts and aethel/CC do even better than my scipio (5552)Alex or Boudica/YSG experticed both with good gear. I think its definitely underrated. (Specially bc its free 😂) Also if you finish CC remember not to hit the expertise. In soc not so good on the field bc it gets focused but in big fights she is not noticed so much. Specially if you can hit and run is good as chisgule mentions
@@morecroutonsplease4582 after soc 1 no one cares about cc. It’s so easy to put a debuffer or bufffer behind him. You might not get good trades your self but you help turn the tables by a lot. Actually I stay more alive with cc eath then I do my 5554 scipio with max Alex and GREAT gear. Since everyone is focused on scipio/ ysg/xy/ Joan/and bud 😆
you forget the 50% skill dmg boost from the 4. skill from ysg, ysg deals more than athel, 1020 dmg factor by 5 targets
I might be wrong, but according to my understanding if it's YSG
1 target: 1700
2 targets: 1700 * 0.85 = 1445 * 2 = 2890
3 targets: 1445 * 0.85 = 1228.25 * 3 = 3684.75
4 targets: 1228.25 * 0.85 = 1044.0125 * 4 = 4176.05
5 targets: 1044.0125 * 0.85 = 887.410625 * 5 = 4437.053125
This is interesting. Would need to do detailed testing to confirm.
chis last year with Trajan Mulan :
'60%stats x 5marches = +300%stats
30%speed x5marches = +150%speed
she's sent from heaven, especially with Trajan this combo is a must'
but hey he's got something new(or old🤔) this year
So, how do i know who to use as a primary and who to use as a secondary?
talent tree choices can largely influence this, as can the active skills. For example pop a big debuff to the enemy them hit them with big damage.
@@Chisgule So I’m guessing a secondary does their skill second? So if I have a support commander, I should put him as secondary so his healing skill kicks in after my primary has got hit?
The 15% damage reduction doesn't work how you represent it. It's only applied to the additional target and so on. In other words, not all targets you hit take the same damage. One takes the full damage, the next takes 15% less, the 3rd takes 30% less. Etc. So there is always more damage being delt with more targets it's just relatively less done each time. You can easily see this from the battle logs. If you're aoe barb farming you can even just look at the red numbers and see that they are different per target and the above is why. Curiously, usually it's your primary target that takes the least damage.
This is correct☝🏻
Uh he mentions those exact words in the video….🤦🏾♂️
@@localppc242 No. His table with calculations appears to be calculated on the assumption that the inclusion of additional targets reduces the damage dealt for all targets hit by the AOE by 15%. Don't believe me? Do the maths. It's why his table shows the overall damage output barely increasing by the 5th target. The wording of the skills are not comprehensive, which is why Chisgule seems to have taken his interpretation.
We really need to know how this works. I thought that the skill damage reduction was only for the additional target, not for all of them.
yes, you're right. Idk what he's saying lol. The target YSG is directly hitting will take 1700 damage then each additional target he hits will take 15% of that. So the 2nd will take 1445 damage factor, 3rd will take 1229, 4th will take 1045, and the last one around 860. for a total damage (when hitting 5 targets) of around 6,000. Which to those who say thats OP....its a lot less than 1700 x 5
@@duckie1623 are you sure about that? I’ve heard others say it works the same way Chisgule did
Just go barbing with Ysg. And you see all what you need to understand. And no your first enemy gets always the reduction on top. So most dmg on the 5th March and the minimum dmg on the first.
Nice nice
If you check reports, once your opponent is slowed once, her buff tied to that is good for the entirety of the battle. And since she slows targets with 2nd skill, cage of thorns isn’t a requirement
Not true at all. It clearly is printed in the report that there is 20% all damage bonus. This is when the enemy is slowed. And then when the enemy is not slowed, there is no longer any listing of the 20% all damage. This is the easiest thing for you to verify yourself. Just read a report once in a while and you will have the facts, rather than making up facts. cheers.
stop telling people to not have cage of thorns. You need to check your facts before you spread misinformation. Slowing needs to be present for the 20% all damage bonus to be active. It goes away when the enemy is not slowed, at any time during the fight. thx.
@@pokerchannel6991 the report states ‘this is good for the entirety of the battle’ but you are correct that it goes away. I was going by that wording, so it is the report that is truly in error. But in any event, original statement is true that cage of thorns is not a requirement since her 2nd skill has slowdown. Not saying it’s not good, just not necessary
@@steel8240 fair. that is fair. I do see the wording "duration of the battle" Yeah, I have read that before and it is misleading. cheers.
You didn’t calculate for YSG 50% bonus skill dmg
I already use aethel as a F2P player it is an easy way to get sculptures
First saludos desde chile
I know its the meta, but seeing him have enough sculptures to max out a commander, but not doing so triggers my ocd to the extreme
And YSS/Aethel is better than Richard/Aethel?
I'm 40 gold heads away from Maxing the Fourth skill of her as F2P!😌😌
Nice!
@@Chisgule thank you 😎
CM does not absorb the damage factor of 1200 in reality or m I misundertanding. Imagine the skill damage of 1200 in a rally and compare it with the damage absorbed by CM only 2-3 basic attacks at most
healing, shield, have different calculation
Me watching this when I have 250k power😂😂
So why is she so good?
what about william trajan?
For regular field fighting I'd rather have trajan be primary and with mixed troops, which I suppose you could do with william. The reason people frequently run an infantry commander with trajan is because when you used mixed troops, that army marches as fast as the SLOWEST troop. Infantry will always be the slowest due to their base march speed being 15 pts lower. You can offset this infantry sluggishness by using a commander with a infantry march speed. All of william's march speed boost is wasted in a trajan mixed pairing.
Still don't think she cracks my lineup...Guan/Leo, Scip/Mehmed, Alex/Harald, Boudica/YSG, Saladin/William, Nev/Joan (6 marched); Guan/Scip, Alex/Harald, Boudica/YSG, Saladin/William, Nev/Joan (5 marches)
I agree that you could justify not using her in field, but for Ark mid fights it is META to use her.
Ysg, 5th target gets 100%, the 4th get 85%, the 3rd gets 70, the 2nd gets 55, the primary gets only 40%. It's not all 5 targets get 40% damage, chain barbs and pay attention
That whole video is also (and actually more!) a video promoting ... Hannibal Barca!
Same as aethel, his damage isnt reduced.
His debuff is FAAAAAAAAAR stronger than aethel's and here is why:
- The more stats we get (and powercreep from commander + new armament) the less a stat debuff is strong (on behalf of how stats buff/debuff are calculated (additive))
- The more damage we get (and we get more due to powercreep), the more a total damage debuff gets better.
Then again, he's hitting one less target, and AOE is narrower. But for that second point, the whole video assumed massiv brawl "free max target hit".
Swapped Aethel out for Barca in my canyon line up it it improved significantly! Agreed that Barca is far better then Aelthelfled.
sun actually does reduce..
Consuder YSG's 50% extra skill dmg, and do the math again and let's see who's on top among the commanders you chose
Don't forget that YSG still has +50% skill damage.. so his damage will still rise so he's still worth an investment
and guan have 50% chance to deal his 4th skill to his first target,
but thats not what this vid for,
its abt aethelfled
I use her and Sun Tzu together.
you forgot about the most important reason ark teams use aethl/trajan: cos they dont need to heal the hospital troops.
@@anubis6958 i mean it doesnt matter who is primary in that pair in kvk, it's just walking sev wounds. aint nobody got the rss or speeds to run that march outside of ark.
@@anubis6958 i used it too and VERY quickly went back to charles/aethl in that march slot. does the same thing but gets way better trades, and its not like thats a meta march or anything.
I wish I could be inspired by doodoo
I don't find.any reason to use AEthel in late game.
She Is a great commander at the early game, with Richard, CM and some others like you said. But she Is too weak as primary and the talents she has are not the best. If you don't hace anything else, then use it, as secondary. And please do not invest materials in AEthel 😅
She's great and free , ppl actually don't use her?
she’s squishy
Noobs.....
They rather use something crappy like charles martel that don t do damage or debuff than to use the best debuff in their line up
Can't wait to hear the reactions of all these inf nerds when I tell them Aethal does more damage than Guan lol
Love the video btw, always great to learn new things
Those OL champs use her with expertise Leadership Legendary Gears 😅
Lilith after watching this video
Epics gets Nerfed
haha welll, I don't really think there's a need to nerf the epics. They're already out of the META due to the power-jump of the museum buffs on gold key legendaries.
Don't underestimate aethel she's broken if you pair her with correct
Where my translate like your long video bro 😂😂😂
Nebu doing rage reduction bro, you missed a lot off 🤣
Yes he does apply a rage reduction, but that’s separate from his AOE. It’s a 10% chance on normal attacks
@@Chisgule True, was an interesting video… you should probably add that adding a few T4 infantry/archers will enhance the damage whilst not impacting on your overall speed of your running T5 cav.
@@glowwurm9365 You would need to use t2 infantry and t3 archers
Brother percentages doesnt add up. No matter if you look at 5 targets or just 1, its still only 30%
Yes but it is 30% of each stat, and that's per target that you hit. Meaning that your total impact is 90% of total stat reduction per target that you hit, and if you hit 5 things that's a total of 450% of stats removed from enemies for a 2 second window.
ysg 4250
Wtff YSG minus from 3700 to 3400
Richard/aethelflaed Kvk 3 ruins
It's really important to know that Trajan is buffing only 5 random marches in your murderball. That why i thing Trajan is useless
He buffs your own marches (only if you don t have other marches nearby he buffs allies) And you only can bring 5-7 you buff yourself
@@ramos_pinho117 And the same think with Joan or Mulan?
"YSG is one of the best comm in the game" and you never use him.C'mon Chis, be serious
I am serious. Lots of end game players in top tier kingdoms will argue ysg is better than other archer choices.
@@Chisgule The wake up and starting to consider YSG aoe.With a museum buff...OH man :)
I don't trust it