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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2021
- When people want to criticize Catholic history the inquisition is one of the “go-to” topics. In this episode Trent sits down with Catholic Answers president Chris Check to expose the myths and realities of the inquisition and how its lessons still apply today.
In Spain, criminals would blaspheme in order to be put into Inquisition prisons because they were treated humanely and not actually tortured. Torture was occasionally used, but it was far, far less severe than the US "Enhanced interrogations" No torture could last more than 15 minutes, it could never cause permanent damage and a doctor must always be present. No confessions extracted were admissible.
In the meantime, in Protestant England, a man convicted of speaking against the king would get the wheel. He was executed by having every bone in his body crushed by an oxcart wheel, starting at the hands and feet and working inward.
Glad to see this. I was hoping there would be more material on the inquisition online and you provided!
The legend himself!
agree! almost no actual information
There's this.
th-cam.com/video/CY-pS6iLFuc/w-d-xo.html
Nero was right.
Torture is intrinsically evil. I'm a Catholic who know that the inquisitions were not what the anti Catholics paint them to be. But using torture was the greatest sin that people involved in the inquisitions committed.
Torture is evil through and through and ought to be condemned.
The Spanish Crown set up the inquisition to investigate conversos who were a perceived threat to the state but they didn't have the theological expertise to examine the suspects so they asked the Pope to select initially 3 Dominican theologians to act as inquisitors ie inquirers to ask the questions.
In the extreme cases where someone was perceived and judged to be a third columnist, ie a converso who still professed their old non Christian faith and received the ultimate penalty, the religious who were attached to that particular suspect very often pleaded for clemency and were often listened to by the state, who were the organizers and ultimate judges.
Its good to see you in Catholic Answers studio Trent… thanks for the information and as always in a gentle but matter of fact way.. Hi Mr, Check, he is always so kind 💕
" America: we are the only country that has a heresy named after it" , simply hilarious XDXDXDXD
Sad, but also hilarious 🤣 I can see why though given our founding and the general ‘Murica! attitude that attempts to make us stand out. Better or worse, we are who we are sometimes 😅
Wasn't the heresy named after America?
Free Masonic Satanist founded our country
@@williamjarrell3541 Americanism 😂
Protestantes also had inquisitions...
Who ? The Church of England isn't a Protestant church from the Protestant Reformation: it was a State Church by the King of England that followed their Political ambitions. Similar to the RCC.
@@davidjanbaz7728 READ LUTGERS LETTERS AND FOLLOW PROTESTANT HISTORY IN AMERICA.
MoSt Protestants today read from the church of England’s Bible by the way…
@@davidjanbaz7728 there theology is protestant.
@@davidjanbaz7728yes it was protestant and there was also the puritans
@@davidjanbaz7728The Church of England, Anglicanism, is just as much protestant as Lutheranism and Calvinism are.
You are in no way going to be able to win any argument to the contrary.
I read up on the BS that the culture has imbibed since the war with Spain and learned how false the hate propaganda is. Even the BBC did a special on the Myth of the Spanish Inquisition in 1994. Very informative and entertaining.
I loved the BBC's documentary about the inquisition. If only more people have heard about it.
@@andtou1342 It was all wartime hate propaganda from the English. Their inquisition was vastly more murderous. You never hear of that.
Good explanation, thank you.
Like to hear about the Battle of Lepanto too! How about the Crusades, Galileo or Columbus?
@Catherine Oliveri: Battle of Lepanto: th-cam.com/video/oHSI15Ak6t0/w-d-xo.html
415: Christians were persecuted. 1515: Christians persecute other Christians, pagans, etc. Hypocrisy.
Trent: Can you do a video on why we believe the Biblical authors were "inspired"? I'd really like to know more about not just what inspiration meant, but where the idea came from, how people concluded the Old Testament documents were inspired, how and when they concluded the New Testament documents were also inspired, and what degree of infallibility they were thought to have in different periods. I've seen a lot of writers and even youtubers who differ wildly on interpretation and seem to have differing views on what inspiration is, what it applies to, etc.
If a text is inspired, does that mean everything it says is true? Does it mean that God inspired the author with a story to tell and the author simply chose the precise words but not the structure? Or does it mean that God gave the author a general message he wanted to get across, but it was up to the author how to structure that, what kinds of idioms and puns to use, etc.? Is there reason to believe God inspired the ages in the genealogies in Genesis, for example? Or could that have been merely human flourish added by the writer? Is it possible for God to inspire a writer to say something that is false, but that God wants us to believe anyway? In other words, could/would God seemingly lie to us for our own good?
Or is all of that taking things too far? Some people seem to behave as if inspiration is just a kind of divine imprimatur, that the writing isn't directed by God but God approves it after the fact and directs the faithful to reverence it. I'm sure there are solid grounds for arguing any of these positions, and probably not one straightforward answer, but I'd be interested to know what different people thought at different times. What did the Pharisees think about it? What did Jesus and his Apostles think about it? The Church Fathers? etc.
As a spaniard I am VERY PROUD of spanish Inquisition.
😎😎
As a person with a history degree, I would have liked to see some documentation to support the claims here. Of course, this is a conversational format not a measured defense on the issue. I just feel as if a lot more could have been said about this subject. I would love to hear a clear statement on the issue:
these are the facts, these are the legends, this was bad, and this was good. I liked what was said about the common good and the different views people had of society at the time, that was good. As always, you have 100% of my support Trent!
@Prasanth Thomas Yeah. Forcing certain beliefs on people unfamiliar with the religion, not as a sign of piety but as war-criminals until they have no more they could do to resist. And then confiscating all that wealth. Confiscation of even SAINTLY works.
@Eucharist Angel what about the Salem with trials?the heretical churches have murdered more in the name of God than Catholicism has red your history not the crap made up by pastor Bubba
@Eucharist Angel you mean exactly what the heretical churches were doing?is there no end to your people's hypocrisy?
@Eucharist Angel Jesus pinpointed false teachers would rise for people with itchy ears low and behold the so called reformers
@Eucharist Angel inventing novel doctrine spreading easily disprove lies that's biggest reason I left that evil conglomeration Satan founded.that and you can't have critical thinking skills.
I love how you talk about individuals choosing their favorite priest over Church magisterium has a spirit of heresy to it: Arians and Cathars, etc. I was finding myself going too far into a spirit of schism as a traditionalist. I had to back off a bit for a peace of mind.
I'm very glad Fr Ripperger is telling people publically... well, the obvious - that he's NOT an infallible source of Church Teaching, that you need to be obedient to Christ's One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, and that you need to study the Faith for yourself.
William I understand what you’re saying and I think your heart and mind are in the right place. However there are undeniable diabolical problems with Vatican II, the spirit of Vatican II and the modernists in our magisterium who are pushing revolution in the church. They are not upholding the dogmatic believes that have been taught for 2000 years, they are distorting and destroying them.
So while we never need to go into schism, because we always stay faithful to the one true church, we need not become apologist trying to justify the heretical teachings and opinions that come from our leadership.
@@verum-in-omnibus1035 Yes, but we need to trust that Holy Spirit is guiding his Church and knows what He's doing. Remember, if something sinful is coming from the top, sin is on them not us.
if only it was that simple post Vatican II. the Novus Ordo Church has gone into schism with the Catholic Church of the first 1,960 years. how do you find the Novus Ordo liturgy which was designed to please the protestants and play down the fact that the Mass is a Sacrifice? plus due to Vat II MOST Catholics DO NOT believe in the Real Presence? it is a difficult situation, i have found peace of mind at SSPX Chapels.
@@marcokite Why do you (and others) say that it was meant to please Protestants in specific. I agree the NO is inferior, but I don’t get what source people are getting that specific thing from. I also recommend going to an Ordinariate Church if you’ve never been. I’ve been told it’s like TLM but in Elizabethan English.
Just started reading "Imperiofobia y Leyendo Negra" by Maria Elvira Roca Barea in Spanish. Any thoughts on it?
No, it's definitely still the best joke ever! Lmao Thanks for such an informative session, as usual.
I also think that in a world where there was a lot more physical pain, disease and insecurity than there is today, people going around spreading regressive and divisive ideologies were much more of a threat to people's temporal wellbeing let alone eternal wellbeing. So it could be seen as temporal self defence as well as spiritual. If heresies had been left to take over would the benefits we enjoy today of relative wellbeing have developed ? Perhaps not.
Look at the crazies today...it would be a blessing to them if they were raised in a society with certain strict boundaries to keep them sane.
I would like to hear about the Goan Inquisition too
@Albert Benny: The Goan inquisition is a term originally coined by a protestant several hundred years ago. He had a grudge with the Catholic Church. Of late, it has been used by the religious fundamentalists in India who want to erase Catholicism and Catholics from the country and dissuade Hindus from becoming Catholics.
@@catholicdoctrine so what your saying is that it never existed.
I agree with that as i can't find any historical reference to it.
Another protestant black legend, it appears.
Has Trent done anything simmilar to this for the crusades? As a catholic and someone who's very passionate for history it's tricky for me to develop a proper nuanced position regarding something that's devisive
The most crucial thing to say in defense of the Crusades is that they were not of an imperialist character, but a reconquering character. Asia Minor, Levant and Northern Africa used to be strictly Christian regions in the first few centuries after Christ, which is why we have so many valuable saints from these areas (St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Cyprian of Carthage, St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Polycarp of Smyrna, St. Athanasius of Alexandria, the Cappadocian Fathers &c.). Islam, of course, spread by the sword. Between the years 632 (death of Mahomet) and 732 AD (Battle of Tours) - the 100 years of Islamic expansion - they conquered Damascus (635 AD), Jerusalem (638 AD), Caesarea (640 AD), Alexandria (642 AD), Tangier (670 AD), Maghreb (710 AD) and most of Spain (714 AD). In 846 AD, they even sacked Rome and ruled southern parts of Italy for the next two hundred years. The trigger of the First Crusade were, however, the copious reports of murdered or endangered pilgrims and the desecration or even destruction of Christian temples (the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was destroyed by the Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah in 1009 AD). Thus, we hold that the First Crusade was completely justified.
The Catholic Talk Show talks about Crusades. A Pretty good episode.
Real Crusades History channel: th-cam.com/users/RealCrusadesHistory
Or just research the crusades, there are many books, you will find the crusades were more than justified and not evil
If there are any computer rpg fans there is an interesting old school style rpg called inquisitor made by a developer named cinemax, its on steam. Its a game so it obviously takes many liberties with alot of things but the story is rather good and puts you in the perspective of an inquistor going around seeking out heresey's in citys and kingdoms... Its worth it it your like me and enjoy that kind of stuff.
For the record, Philip IV the Fair, not Luis IV persecuted the Templars.
Yes that's known. Its sad
The error in their thinking is in thinking that getting someone to declare faith in Jesus under threat of torture would actually save anyone.
The problem with this reasoning is that from a worldly perspective yes it is correct that the inquisition is understandable and nuanced in its historical context. Similarly child abuse is not at all specific to the cathilolic church. The problem is that the carholic church is supposed to be holy, so all these arguments don't apply. Christ was percecuted by religious authorities for blasphemy. The catholic church persecuted heretics - which is a very similar reason. If popes are infallible, how come no Pope of that time taught that violent persecutuons of heretics was wrong. Why were the popes of that time not inspired to know what the church today declares as evil?
I suspect that the church would condemn Jesus himself as heretic. Saints like Thomas and Augustine praised persecution of heretics. The church stopped doing this when they lost the power to do so and changed its nature quite dramatically. When they had the power they fell pray to the same vices secular powers fall pray to.
I would like to find a good book about the cathars and the albigensian crusade. Any recommendations?
Sumption, Jonathan. The Albigensian Crusade, 2000
Only ten minutes in but I'll be surprised if you convince me it was Godly, even though I do accept your premise about the most important priority. The same church that converted other lands by the sword has been prone to undue corrupting influence from worldly politics and I'm under the impression that the Spanish inquisition is similarly motivated. It certainly doesn't sound like what Paul recommended. I'm not a Catholic basher but if you change my mind I will be surprised...
Edit: After listening I think it became clearer that you weren't trying to justify the means so you sounded fair. I definitely need to read those books though.
“The same church that converted lands by the sword…” your confusing Christianity with Islam. Our missionaries didn’t own or use weapons to convert ppl. Don’t be ignorant.
@@littleone1656 I was just going from my memory of learning history in school so I apologise if I am ignorant but I am happy to be corrected. Weren't South Americans literally told to convert or be put to death when colonised by either the Spanish or Portuguese?
@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 the conquistadors forced people, and there were some corrupt missionaries (priests/nuns) but many of the priest and nun missionaries actually opposed the atrocities committed by the conquistadors/soldiers and actively resisted them. St. Junipero Serra is a prime example of this!
Grand Inquisitor Cardinal Ratzinger, what a nice title
Why do two people talking to each other in a studio wear headphones? I presume there must be a good reason but I'm wondering what it is.
Now, how did I know that Trent Horn, and his guest, would defend the Spanish Inquisition???
Many jews converted to Catholicism and remained in spain or left to colonies of spain .
you know what is funny, i am subscribed to a guy on youtube that has a series on his channel called "medieval misconceptions" and in one of his videos a few weeks ago he mentioned a misconception about the inquisition
if he responds to my comment (i don't think he will) i might send him this video and some other on the inquisition
th-cam.com/video/7Xc8EBenUbw/w-d-xo.html
@@john-paulgies4313
Yep, that's him
@@royalsoldierofdrangleic4577 Here is a 1994 BBC video that clears up the myth of the Spanish inquisition: th-cam.com/video/CY-pS6iLFuc/w-d-xo.html
Christians killed pagans.
@@liamhalla6803 making the mother of all omelettes, can't fret over every egg
What do you think the most accurate non-biased book on inquisition is?
That could be the books by Henry Kamen, a British historian who is not Catholic and less likely to be biased towards the Church.
Only 'c' in Spanish is read 'th'. 'Señor' is a normal sss sound. Barthelona / Señor.
Yesss to the part about some people saying "I don't care what the CDF says, I'll follow this individual bishop." That's how heresy begins to be embraced.
yes but the irony is that the present CDF and the post Vatican II popes would have been considered heretics by the Inquisition and the Catholic Church of the first 1,960 years. heresy entered the Catholic Church during/after Vatican II and the reigns of Paul VI and poor befuddled John-Paul II. trying to be like protestants is how heresy begins
Heresy is a word to suppress free thinking.
@@liamhalla6803 You can think freely all you want. But you can’t change the truth just because you feel like it.
@@bethanyann1060 religion suppresses progressive ideas; especially the Catholic Church pre Vatican 2. To them, new ideas are heresy.
14 minutes in and I don’t know anything about the Spanish Inquisition other than that people used to care more about being part of their communities.
Would clarifying the inquisitions' use of torture, in comparison to it's time, be the defense of cultural/moral relativism? Perhaps there is a better way of defending it.
Yea, we understand the times were mad and led to more madness!
Hi @TheCounselofTrent can you please make a video of Mother Teresa, her life, and if she is a criminal or a saint ?. Three days ago I heard from another catholic that Mother Tereza was an evil person and I told him that is not true, cause I believe that to be canonized as a saint, people go out to study and come up with a lot of evidence and miracles that happened using Mother Tereza prayers.
I think people nowadays do understand how people in the middle ages thought of heaven and hell and that is exactly what they have an issue with... they see it as barbaric because they dont believe in an afterlife... they think people would have been better off without Christianity...
What they are trying to say, is that modern people are judging medieval people based off of modern values, and not judging them based off of the values of the time.
Rosario This is not Christianity ,God's love for man does not come into their thinking.
The sad fact about many aspects of Catholic Apologetics is not only a disregard/rose-tinted historiography but a denunciation of controversial events. Some are fair game but the Inquisition and Crusades in most instances should be embraced.
Perhaps some of the rose tinted historiography is in an attempt to balance out all the negative outlook on church history. Practically everyone believes that Galileo was a victim of a superstitious church that hated science, but the nuances in that affair are pretty enlightening. I have been apologetic in a rose-tinted sense on that issue before trying to glean a positive view for the church, so perhaps I should also talk about how that situation was messed up all around.
@@killianmiller6107 Galileo was a @#$% who deserved what he got, it was proved later in the century. The presenters forgot the Portuguese, Venetian, Maltese and Colonial Inquisitions, the Portuguese one was pretty stupid but the others were okay.
@@johnnotrealname8168 Here is a 1994 BBC video that clears up the myth of the Spanish inquisition: th-cam.com/video/CY-pS6iLFuc/w-d-xo.html
@@catholicdoctrine Dude what? I...okay. I have already seen it. It is obviously a brilliant documentary. However what has this to do with my comment?
@@johnnotrealname8168 I misunderstood what you wrote. Please disregard my response to you.
Pax Christi.
Claiming that the Inquisition and Church obeyed Saint Aquinas' rulings, is wrong. As late as 1858, there was a forceful taking of a 6-year-old boy Edgardo Mortara from his Jewish family by an Inquisitor. There are reports that the terrified and traumatized boy clung to his family at visits but he was never returned to them.
@11:54 Commoners traveled hundreds of miles on pilgrimages. Some europeans went to Palestine.
Pass me the SOFT CUSHION!
The main philosophical point is that there is such a thing as a common good, which has ramifications on permitted and not-permitted discourse, especially public discourse. On this ground, leftists have nothing to say against the inquisition: granted that for Christians the salvation of souls is the most important value, limitations on speech which could endanger souls either because false or because immoral are a rational consequence; in the same way function today's limitations on fake news (spreading of falsity) and on hate speech (spreading of immorality). A heresy is, in a way, a fake news (as opposed to the Good News) on God.
A libertarian may consider himself unscathed by this conundrum, because he sees liberty as the supreme good itself, so that he has no speech to limit. And yet, the libertarian too would be incoherent in his criticism of the Inquisition, for he has to at least limit one speech, namely the speech which limits liberty. This is Popper's paradox of tolerance, which aggressive libertarians use as an argument to silence critics of liberal/libertarian regimes, without understanding that it unravels their own arguments: if it is to survive, tolerance cannot tolerate the intolerants, because when intolerants are given free rein, tolerance is swiftly lost. Therefore, even the libertarian must have his "inquisitions" to find and silence those who endanger the common good of freedom. And here in Europe it is so: in Italy, fascist apologetics and fascist parties are forbidden by the Constitution, in Austria and Germany Holocaust-denial is punishable with imprisonment.
There is no historical society and no theorical idea of society which does not posit -- either explicitly as Catholicism and socialism, or implicitly as liberalism -- some value as the common good, and which identifies its own survival and identity with that value, and which does not limit or punish discourse undermining that value. There is no society without an inquisition.
Once one has clarified this question, which is purely formal, he can turn to more substantial questions, those that are really decisive, and cannot ultimately be decided with sole reason: what is or what are the values worthy to be the common good in which society identifies? What kind of discourse and course of action endangers them, and in which degree? How can we prevent this damage from happening, possibly without sacrificing our values in the pursuit?
Many pagans were killed. Sounds like Islam: convert or be killed.
They literally sewed up people's buttholes and force fed them until their guts exploded in the name of Christ. What is wrong with you?
Please, we need prayers for my country Perú. Communists Marxists, Leninist, Maoist terrorists are to be elected this June 6, 2021. Lord have Mercy on us. Amén
I love these talks. They make realize (as long as my brain is healthy), I will NEVER follow any religion that I didn't invent for myself.
There is NO WAY a maximally benevolent, maximally powerful, and maximally wise perfect creator could have created the world as it is.
It is obvious that we live in a world where the individual and/or group with the most power do whatever they want, and the rest either have to fall in line or get lined up by a firing squad.
but the world we live in WAS created and IS preserved by the One God who is Love. you can 'wish away' the Holy Trinity
@@marcokiteWhat definition of love are you using?
Maybe what is seen now it is not all that this world could be at some point, e.g eternal life? Is this argument not similar to the ones used against Jesus when he was being crucified? Something like if he is God, why doesnt he come down from the cross?
@@santimontiel8238 "if he is God, why doesnt he come down from the cross?" Perfectly reasonable question to ask a god.
What happened to the Holy Trinity when Jesus died on the cross? Was it a Holy Duality for "3 days?"
@@francmittelo6731 I dont know, maybe it was, but I think the christian view is that when people die, their soul is still alive, and after they also resurrect, but not that sure
Jesus didn't force anyone to follow him but instead died for our sins, Jesus's fruits are opposite of inquisition fruits.
Pray for Canada. 215 children were found in unmarked graves at a residential school which was run by the Catholic Church school. If you don’t know what residential schools are it’s where the kids who were forcibly taken from their homes were sent to be taught English and Catholicism.
If you stop right there.
It was set up and run be the state of BC. The Catholic nuns inherited many of these care homes from protestant organisations and provided free labor to the state.
These 19th century cemeteries were forgotten for a century and record keeping was lost through time .. By the state.
Of course it's lovely to blame the Catholic order entirely. But remember, these places were Dickensian 19th century institutions and were set up and funded with meager resources. . by the state.
@@Kitiwake there were hundreds if not thousands of these institutions worldwide run by the Catholic church, taking from my own experience in one of them the Catholic Church should hang its head in shame, the abuse carried by these monsters should never be forgiven
Nero was right: Christians persecute nonchristians.
@@Kitiwake it doesn't change the fact the red Indians Native Americans where put into schools and abused forced to accept western ideas.
@@TheAaronChand "If you can read and count past 20 you're an indoctrinated sheep and have lost all ties to your ancestry as a jungle dweller!"
Even if everything the critics say about it is true I don’t care because the inquisition was awesome and based
This is disturbing.
Christianity teaches those who commit murder do not inherit the kingdom of God. IT DOES NOT SAY THIS CHANGES OR IS MORE ACCEPTABLE AT DIFFERENT TIMES IN HISTORY. This is nothing to do with common good. The church was told NOT TO UNITE WITH UNBELIEVERS ,THAT MEANS THE STATE. Your reasoning is not following God but the ideas of men. There is only one gospel which is believe and repent and follow God, not force your ideas on someone ,that does not produce Christians just hypocrites. The Roman period was no different, the pagan Romans were barbaric,and the Roman church which united with the state ,followed them not God as they were not true converts. The Spirit of God leads the church He formed. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CHURCH IS.
CHRISTIAN TEACHING IS PREACH THE GOSPEL .GOD CONVERTS PEOPLE THOUGH HIS SPIRIT . We are told to love our enemies not kill them .
The church was told to kill pagans.
@@liamhalla6803 Who told the church to kill pagans. ?
@@wendymitchell8245 the pope. And the trinity.
The Pope did ,against the teaching of God. Who do you think the Apostles preached to , The pagans of course. Nowhere does it say kill anyone .All murderers are condemned ,unless they repent and are converted.
@@wendymitchell8245 explain the deaths of Hypatia, Vikings, and Romans who never converted under Christian rule.
The Medieval people must have been laughing in their graves. Maybe there will be a Holocaust apologetic in the future
you seemed to have missed the point
Pretty much. They represent a moral value system that ranks masturbation in the same category as rape (both mortal sins), so what can you really expect? They're too busy parsing the sinful qualities of breathing to care about sadistic torture and genocide...or a massive coverup of child molestation....
In any court of law you do t just listen to one side of the story sadly the victims have no written testimony regards the treatment they received, same with the Cathars and knights Templars. . not worth debating. History written by the Victor's.
This was a 35 min video with plenty of source references. You are quite welcome to rebut it with your own properly referenced sources, if you have any.👍🏻
I guess the St.Bartholomew's day massacre was too incriminating to talk about!
You didn't take about the numbahs! What about the millions who were slaughtered???
There were not millions murdered lol
@@TheCASSMAN777 What!!?? I've been lied to?
@@jfziemba theirs alot of myths.. Concerning the church .. Such as the crusades.. Killing anyone who interpertated the bible ..thats why brother we most research .. And hear the side of the the accused .. The accusers are not catholic and are anti catholic. Who are either decieved by myths or just dont want to belive the catholic side ...
@@jfziemba Historians estimate that during the 3 centuries of the existence of spanish inquistion (which is considered as the most cruel of all the inquisitions) about 3,000 to 5,000 people were executed. And by the way, the inquistion was skeptical of existence of witches, and the large majority of witch trials happened in areas where the inquisition was not present enough, so at large it was the doing of supersticious commoners (I'm not saying there weren't any official inquistion witch trials, but they were much less common than one might think).
@@filipschweiner1989 5,000 max--over several hundred years. It's almost as if some have it in for the Church.
I killed god!🤣
this was good EXCEPT for the odd remark about Benedict XVI's 'conservative theology'. if only!! i guess 'conservative' compared to Paul VI, our own Francis or poor blundering JPII but a total liberal modernist compared to the Catholic Church of the first 1960 years. ironically the Inquisition would have had a LOT of questions for Cardinal Ratzinger.
This interrupts way too much, it is annoying
bullshit