Thanks for watching and it was very disheartening. The offer still stands if you want me to attempt to fix the warp on the Beach Boys album. I promise not to turn into something to throw into the recycle bin ;)
This is interesting. I have used the Vinyl Flat and flattened well over 100 records and one of the only two that I ruined was the Blade Runner soundtrack on red vinyl (same one you ruined). I think that there is something in the vinyl formulation in some colored vinyl that requires more caution. The other vinyl I destroyed was Joan Jett's Record Store Day release on translucent pink vinyl.
+drbryant23 I haven't quite flattened that amount yet but I think what your saying is true. The carbon black additive must change the melting point of the PVC. The Blade Runner album is the only colored vinyl that I have tried to flatten. Everything else has been standard black. Thanks for commenting.
8 ปีที่แล้ว
+drbryant23 terrible quality control for new vinyl if you are dealing with the same warp. Colored vinyl is the worst and why are people buying colored vinyl , it has inferior sound quality to black?
I have used the Vinyl Flat successfully for at least 4 or 5 records and the only one I've damaged was also red! The same thing literally just happened to me today after following the same procedure as in the past. Bummer about the Blade Runner vinyl, hope you find a replacement copy.
I have had my Vinyl Flat for about 6 months and used it on dozens of records with no problem. I use the pouch, which keeps the temperature at 130 degrees. The latest version of the instructions say start with 1:15 minutes. If that doesn't work, do it again and add 15 minutes. If that doesn't work, add 15 minutes more. Keep adding time until you see improvement. Then add only 5 minutes per cycle. This way, you end up finding the temperature and time combination that softens the record enough, without leaving it in so long that you damage the grooves. The instructions say stop when the record gets flat enough to play. If you keep going, trying to get it perfectly flat, you risk damaging the record. I have yet to find a record I could not fix. Some only take one cycle at 1:15. The worst took four hours. You just have to be patient. I also bought a timer that I control with my smart phone, so I can get the times perfect. two for $16 on ebay.
I wonder if they have their new instructions posted digitally anywhere. I would love to take a look at them to see what they are recommending currently. You're right about the timer. I bought an analog one which brings peace of mind. I would love to get one that's manageable via smartphone. Thanks for commenting Gary.
Yep. Using the Vinyl Flat is a STEEP learning curve. I ruined a very nice original pressing of Diver Down that I'd found in a bargain bin for just pennies. I think that hurt me more than if I'd ruined a new album. The problem I have most often is maintaining such a low temp. Most conventional ovens in homes won't hold a temp below about 200*. You need a really reliable thermometer and you have to watch it like a hawk while fudging the heat with the temp knob. I've used my Vinyl Flat probably 2 dozen times and have about a 10% failure rate. I highly recommend buying the bag. Good video.
Thanks Crushgroove and you're right about the learning curve. After this experience, I set a timer on my phone for an hour so I don't forget about cooking the records. Most colored vinyl is more problematic because of it's lower melting point.
The dreaded "orange peel" effect! Yes, I trashed a very rare Nimbus record being overly aggressive (i.e, impatient!) when I first started out with the Vinyl Flat. Man that hurts too! So now I've learned that with my particular pouch, I start off at 2:30 no matter what and add 15 minute increments to it. Generally my sweet spot lands around the 2:45 - 3:15 time frame but things really do vary with brand/year/weight. Thanks for the kind shout-out. Take Care! Blake
+wertsdb71 My pleasure Blake and thanks for stopping by! I had been watching you videos for the longest time when the VC was just starting to cook a few years back. I really liked the dynamic it had back them when only a handful of guys were making videos. Kris tells me you're still hitting the record conventions from time to time and that you're doing well. Happy to know you're still out there.
Thanks for the kind words. I agree, things certainly felt a bit different a number of years ago... but isn't that always the case? Vinyl is still a passion -- just that the mini comics zine has become front and center these days since it has become popular amongst my target audience. If all goes well, I should be getting up a new video within the week or so but don't hold me to it! ;-) Take Care, B
Definitely a bummer, Paul. I've screwed up more records than fixed with my DIY method, but I just don't buy enough to justify getting a vinyl flat yet (cheaper just to buy replacement records)... I also read that some people don't like the felt pads now (used to be something else I think) - something about making the surface textured sometimes. I imagine the clamp down pressure is also something you learn from experience as well...
That's another thing I love and respect about you Kris, I too was DIY for the longest time. To be quite honest though, the Vinyl Flat is the perfect DIY project. I am sure you can easily find two heavy gauge sheet metal, bolt, wing nut and a couple of felt turntable mats that could easily do the same thing. I really don't think the Groovy Pouch would be that difficult to replicate either. Buying a number of DJ 12" singles, I was always getting burned with warped pressings because the DJ 12" is done on the cheapest vinyl possible. Given the limited runs on a lot of stuff nowadays, I elected pick up the Vinyl Flat.
***** I'm assuming the groovy pouch is just a heating pad, would that be accurate? I've often wondered if I could use that between two tiles to see what would happen...
dixielandfarm Truly, that is all it is...a heating pad with a little bit of insulation to trap the heat and protect the handler. I am sure you could take a couple of really smooth tiles, place a heating pad around them and then place the entire package in one of those cold/hot bag that you can buy at a grocery store. You could probably experiment a bit without vinyl just to check the temp. As long as you are not getting about 130 F for too long, you should be good to go.
I live close to a custom counter top shop. I have aquired two pieces of Corian about a half inch thick, 16 square. I have a gas oven so the lowest setting is warm then 200. I set it between the two for ten to 12 minutes. Nothing. Again at 20 minutes and then outside in 35 degree weather, ate diner, walked the dog, and brought it in. Unplayable to perfect for the cost of gas. One problem is that I did not play the piece before using so have no idea if it effected the tone or quality. I would recommend starting with a record you dont love. As far as colored vinyl, I started collecting it in the 70s before it became popular. I've read that black vinyl is harder. That is why they didnt make a lot of colored pieces. Mostly it was Promo copies that went to radio stations and record stores back then.
Hopefully, your oven can really control well at lower temps. Mine does better at higher temps but at really low temps it's a crap shoot. I have notice you have have +/- 30 degrees in variance so I am a little bit afraid to try this.
I borrowed a friend's vinyl flat that was the felt model. I have also seen one with two blank records to sandwich the warped record. I went 12-16 hours on several without ever seeing any negative effects. I either fixed the record or not. I found that new vinyl could be fixed, but old vinyl was not going to change. I looked up the material formulation differences and I believe it is because this blade runner album is red. I only did this to black records. Here is the statement that I found that seems to be the reason: Since a true black color can’t be created using just dye, other materials have to be added. For black records, black carbon material is added to the white mix before the records are pressed. This carbon material also helps to make the record a little harder and again a bit less susceptible to static.
Your correct on the material formulation Dana. Colored vinyl has different additives and fillers which change the melting point. Most of the formulation is done at the PVC plants and then shipped to the pressing plants in large bags. Even today's vinyl is a bit different from that made in the past. For example, JVC super vinyl, which was made Japan, was considered very toxic and given it's by products, it could no longer be made. I have several plant videos that show them making the pucks from the PVC pellets if you curious. With all of the variations in black vinyl, I have found some records from Germany that I could leave in all day and it doesn't make a difference because the vinyl flat can't get hot enough to reach it's melting point (or to the point where it will soften). I even immediately pulled it out of the bag and placed two 40 lb weights on the vinyl flat. While it did help a little, I still couldn't completely flatten it with another 80 lbs of pressure applied. Granted I wouldn't do this with all records but I do try it with records that have a very stubborn warp that won't go away. I could try placing it in the oven but I know my oven doesn't control the heat to well below 350 F.
I started collecting colored vinyl lps in the 70s. They were rare then. At that time I read that they used black vinyl because it was harder. Most colored pieces back then were promos that went to radio stations and record shops. Very few artist released pieces to the general public, unlike today. There are only a few from that time like "We're An American Band" by Grand Funk, and "Bloodshot" by J. Geils Band that were common. I had to really search hard back then. Now I could by hundreds on Ebay in an afternoon if I had the funds.Kind of takes all the fun out of it.
This is true and it's really become too prevalent in my opinion with artists or labels putting out exclusive variants. People are losing site of the music.
omg! my heart just broke. one ofe my favorite records of all time damaged :O i miss that record so much left it over in Greece and now i desperatly need to listen it.
Yeah. It would have to be one of my desert island disks and sorry to hear that was one of the records you had to leave behind with your move to Berlin. I am in the process of trying to procure a replacement copy. I hope some folks will catch this video and avoid my mistake.
just watched your vc intro video. Bent + other great stuff that i dont have and i MUST get! god damn they are not in the cheap range! Broke on vinyl all the time...
I hate hearing someone else shared my experience. Some color formulations have a lower melting point so I am always ultra cautious when trying to use the Vinyl Flat with them.
thanks, i have just put my vinyl in the oven between 2 sheets of glass. but only in a warm oven which is switched off after cooking and just for 5 mins.
That method has worked for a lot of people. The only challenge for a lot of ovens is being able to control the heat at very low temps. It sounds like yours does a good job of it.
Hey man, hope you see this message. I watched a more recent video of this device, and it sounds like they now ship with recommended times etc.. I wondered if in the years since you posted this, you have continued to use this, and what your success rate was? I have been collecting some old vinyl, and have a few albums that are slightly warped. I didnt want to waste money on something that didnt work well, or mauled records. Thanks!
Hello Travis. So I haven't botched another LP like this one. I used a secondary timer so the power is automatically pulled if I forget it. My success has varied. I find I am more successful with newer records. Older records can be a bit more challenging and I think it really depends on the formula that was used. Some older records I have baked for hours with little to no effect on the warp.
Sorry to see that your record got screwed up, but with %99.9 surety here, it's the quality of the vinyl itself for that pressing is the culprit in your disaster, and unsurprisingly your issue is happening with a colored vinyl record. Colored vinyl behaves way differently than black vinyl. To get the colored vinyl, two things basically happen: 1) anything that may be adding color to the vinyl material is removed, and 2) all kinds of other nonsense is added to the vinyl mixture to make the vinyl colored. And regarding all that stuff that's removed? Much of it is necessary stuff, and important to have in there, so you can have good quality, durable vinyl that will last (black has stabilizers and other things in it to make it more durable). Also, colored vinyl is very often a nightmare to work with on the presses (clear is the absolute WORST) because it's gooey and sticker, and causes all kinds of problems and issues. Not all colors are the same of course, but in terms of playback quality and durability, colored vinyl wears out a lot faster than black. Bottom line: colored vinyl is about novelty, not quality, and if you're really interested in getting a record to enjoy and listen to and hold onto, stick with black. Always stick with black. Sorry your record got screwed up. :(
HG - You are correct in that the colored vinyl was the culprit. You are absolutely correct in that all vinyl is made differently and has different fillers/pigments added to change it's chemical properties. The additives changs things like the melting point, viscosity, hardness, Young's modulus, etc. Lubricants (or mold release compound) is a common agent that is added to prevent it from sticking to the stampers. Also, not to refute what you're saying but depending on the filler composition, clear can be superior to black but it was far more costly to produce and toxic for that matter. For example, JVC's Quiex vinyl is clear in nature and although dark shows some transparency when put to a light. Classic Records, before they folded as a company, developed a Clarity Vinyl product which only saw a limited release. White on the other hand is the worst since this is an indication of Plasticized PVC in its almost purest state. White PVC has a tendency to be a bit softer...or at least that's my experience anyway.
i have had no luck whatsoever with my Vinyl Flat & Groovy Pouch. i have ruined several records trying to flatten them and more often than not the record is still warped, but ruined. i've tried leaving a record with a small warp in the flat for 2-3 months (with no heat obviously) with no luck with that either. wish i could get my money back. i suppose the answer is to put it in the pouch for an hour at a time no more than once a day for a week or two. hopefully that won't ruin the grooves and maybe it would reduce the warp enough to play ok.
Hi, late comer to this video. I've just destroyed the same Blade Runner (Audio Fidelity numbered !) in an AFI Flat ! It started warped but just playable. Processed under the Standard program (slow heating, 59min annealing, slow cool down, 4-5 hours total) . It came out flat but with the mottled orange peel look and rendered unplayable. It must be something in the QRP vinyl ? I've flattened many colored records in the AFI and the BR was the only one ruined. Fortunately I found a sealed replacement (at a cost !).
A sealed replacement at cost??? Damn dude, that's awesome. Anymore, when I do a colored record in this system, I've been ultra cautious and I don't push it. I think the QRP wax has a lower melting point than other PVC compounds.
Bro, major bummer. Sorry that happened to ya. I did the same with the Heavy Metal cartoon soundtrack - left it in too long and it totally flattened the grooves out. Live and learn eh ?
+Guilty Forgiven It's funny you mention Heavy Metal. I flattened that very piece a week or two ago. Ever since I lost this one, I have been super cautious. Thanks for watching.
Wow, that was really cooked, sorry about that. I have had decent results in the oven with 2 pieces of Travertine. Surprisingly I get better results the thicker the vinyl is.
Cool Wes. I guess the Travertine would offer some thermal protection and allow for a slow temp rise. I take it your oven is good at regulating a low temperature below 150 Fahrenheit? Before I bought my vinyl flat, I was really considering the DIY because the Vinyl Flat is not at all complicated but my oven is pretty crappy and could not regulate well below 200 which totally destroy the record. I would love to see a video of some of your results.
I know that this is an older video but I just traded for a pretty rare mispressed record and it must’ve gotten warped during the shipping from Sweden to here in the states. I was looking at getting just the vinyl flat and just putting my record in it (after washing it of course) and just let sit for like a month without using any heat. Have you used yours just “cold”?
I have tried it and I've had mixed results with a cold press. With older vinyl that's warped, I have had zero success but with newer records, I've had a little bit of success but wasn't able to totally eliminate the warp.
6 years late to the party, still I would say that the d.i.y. method of 2 plates of glass and 2 sheets of cardboard works better and doesn''t expose the records to over heathing. Heat the glass to 60° for a few minutes, and place the record well protected with the cardboard (place the record inside a paper sleeve as well, for extra protection for the grooves) and you're good to go. I guess this is old news for you after 6 years, lol.
Are you placing it in an oven? The problem with some ovens is there ability to control to a specific temp set point at low temperatures. I should try it some time.
So maybe you error was puting the records too much time in the groovy pouch? Maybe you recommend using the groovy pouch hour by hour leaving cool lapses in between? Something like that?
***** Yep. My recommendation is to take it slow and shoot for an hour at a time and gradually increase the baking cycles by 10 minutes each time until you get the desired result. My error was caused by putting it in the Groovy Pouch far too long. I actually lost track of time and when I checked it, it was toast.
I still use it. A number of newer pressings I buy still have minor warps so I still use it from time to time. I now use a timer, plugged into the electrical socket, to ensure I don't overcook a record.
It's a combination of things. Bad quality control at the plants, over compression by shrink warp, or bad storage while in the warehouse. Bad quality control can be fixed but some plants don't care.
It can be a challenge and as for the price you're right but a lot of stuff in this hobby is very niche so the mark up is high. Just look at the Spin Clean. $80 for $5 worth of plastic and a couple of felt covered pads.
As soon as you held up the Blade Runner OST, my heart cried :(
Thanks for watching and it was very disheartening. The offer still stands if you want me to attempt to fix the warp on the Beach Boys album. I promise not to turn into something to throw into the recycle bin ;)
***** Of course, thank you, where should I mail them to? Wanna PM or email me? thevinylgeek@vinylrewind.tv
This is interesting. I have used the Vinyl Flat and flattened well over 100 records and one of the only two that I ruined was the Blade Runner soundtrack on red vinyl (same one you ruined). I think that there is something in the vinyl formulation in some colored vinyl that requires more caution. The other vinyl I destroyed was Joan Jett's Record Store Day release on translucent pink vinyl.
+drbryant23 I haven't quite flattened that amount yet but I think what your saying is true. The carbon black additive must change the melting point of the PVC. The Blade Runner album is the only colored vinyl that I have tried to flatten. Everything else has been standard black. Thanks for commenting.
+drbryant23 terrible quality control for new vinyl if you are dealing with the same warp. Colored vinyl is the worst and why are people buying colored vinyl , it has inferior sound quality to black?
I have used the Vinyl Flat successfully for at least 4 or 5 records and the only one I've damaged was also red! The same thing literally just happened to me today after following the same procedure as in the past. Bummer about the Blade Runner vinyl, hope you find a replacement copy.
I have had my Vinyl Flat for about 6 months and used it on dozens of records with no problem. I use the pouch, which keeps the temperature at 130 degrees.
The latest version of the instructions say start with 1:15 minutes. If that doesn't work, do it again and add 15 minutes. If that doesn't work, add 15 minutes more. Keep adding time until you see improvement. Then add only 5 minutes per cycle. This way, you end up finding the temperature and time combination that softens the record enough, without leaving it in so long that you damage the grooves. The instructions say stop when the record gets flat enough to play. If you keep going, trying to get it perfectly flat, you risk damaging the record.
I have yet to find a record I could not fix. Some only take one cycle at 1:15. The worst took four hours. You just have to be patient.
I also bought a timer that I control with my smart phone, so I can get the times perfect. two for $16 on ebay.
I wonder if they have their new instructions posted digitally anywhere. I would love to take a look at them to see what they are recommending currently. You're right about the timer. I bought an analog one which brings peace of mind. I would love to get one that's manageable via smartphone. Thanks for commenting Gary.
Have you had success in flattening colored vinyl? If yes, what was your method? Thank you.
Yep. Using the Vinyl Flat is a STEEP learning curve. I ruined a very nice original pressing of Diver Down that I'd found in a bargain bin for just pennies. I think that hurt me more than if I'd ruined a new album. The problem I have most often is maintaining such a low temp. Most conventional ovens in homes won't hold a temp below about 200*. You need a really reliable thermometer and you have to watch it like a hawk while fudging the heat with the temp knob. I've used my Vinyl Flat probably 2 dozen times and have about a 10% failure rate. I highly recommend buying the bag. Good video.
Thanks Crushgroove and you're right about the learning curve. After this experience, I set a timer on my phone for an hour so I don't forget about cooking the records. Most colored vinyl is more problematic because of it's lower melting point.
The dreaded "orange peel" effect! Yes, I trashed a very rare Nimbus record being overly aggressive (i.e, impatient!) when I first started out with the Vinyl Flat. Man that hurts too! So now I've learned that with my particular pouch, I start off at 2:30 no matter what and add 15 minute increments to it. Generally my sweet spot lands around the 2:45 - 3:15 time frame but things really do vary with brand/year/weight. Thanks for the kind shout-out. Take Care! Blake
+wertsdb71 My pleasure Blake and thanks for stopping by! I had been watching you videos for the longest time when the VC was just starting to cook a few years back. I really liked the dynamic it had back them when only a handful of guys were making videos. Kris tells me you're still hitting the record conventions from time to time and that you're doing well. Happy to know you're still out there.
Thanks for the kind words. I agree, things certainly felt a bit different a number of years ago... but isn't that always the case? Vinyl is still a passion -- just that the mini comics zine has become front and center these days since it has become popular amongst my target audience. If all goes well, I should be getting up a new video within the week or so but don't hold me to it! ;-) Take Care, B
Well, at least you can now put that beautiful red vinyl with the cover and sleeves on your wall for decorations :)
+Qing Zhao True very true. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Definitely a bummer, Paul. I've screwed up more records than fixed with my DIY method, but I just don't buy enough to justify getting a vinyl flat yet (cheaper just to buy replacement records)... I also read that some people don't like the felt pads now (used to be something else I think) - something about making the surface textured sometimes. I imagine the clamp down pressure is also something you learn from experience as well...
That's another thing I love and respect about you Kris, I too was DIY for the longest time. To be quite honest though, the Vinyl Flat is the perfect DIY project. I am sure you can easily find two heavy gauge sheet metal, bolt, wing nut and a couple of felt turntable mats that could easily do the same thing. I really don't think the Groovy Pouch would be that difficult to replicate either.
Buying a number of DJ 12" singles, I was always getting burned with warped pressings because the DJ 12" is done on the cheapest vinyl possible. Given the limited runs on a lot of stuff nowadays, I elected pick up the Vinyl Flat.
***** I'm assuming the groovy pouch is just a heating pad, would that be accurate? I've often wondered if I could use that between two tiles to see what would happen...
dixielandfarm Truly, that is all it is...a heating pad with a little bit of insulation to trap the heat and protect the handler. I am sure you could take a couple of really smooth tiles, place a heating pad around them and then place the entire package in one of those cold/hot bag that you can buy at a grocery store.
You could probably experiment a bit without vinyl just to check the temp. As long as you are not getting about 130 F for too long, you should be good to go.
I live close to a custom counter top shop. I have aquired two pieces of Corian about a half inch thick, 16 square. I have a gas oven so the lowest setting is warm then 200. I set it between the two for ten to 12 minutes. Nothing. Again at 20 minutes and then outside in 35 degree weather, ate diner, walked the dog, and brought it in. Unplayable to perfect for the cost of gas. One problem is that I did not play the piece before using so have no idea if it effected the tone or quality. I would recommend starting with a record you dont love. As far as colored vinyl, I started collecting it in the 70s before it became popular. I've read that black vinyl is harder. That is why they didnt make a lot of colored pieces. Mostly it was Promo copies that went to radio stations and record stores back then.
Hopefully, your oven can really control well at lower temps. Mine does better at higher temps but at really low temps it's a crap shoot. I have notice you have have +/- 30 degrees in variance so I am a little bit afraid to try this.
I borrowed a friend's vinyl flat that was the felt model. I have also seen one with two blank records to sandwich the warped record. I went 12-16 hours on several without ever seeing any negative effects. I either fixed the record or not. I found that new vinyl could be fixed, but old vinyl was not going to change. I looked up the material formulation differences and I believe it is because this blade runner album is red. I only did this to black records. Here is the statement that I found that seems to be the reason:
Since a true black color can’t be created using just dye, other materials have to be added. For black records, black carbon material is added to the white mix before the records are pressed. This carbon material also helps to make the record a little harder and again a bit less susceptible to static.
Your correct on the material formulation Dana. Colored vinyl has different additives and fillers which change the melting point. Most of the formulation is done at the PVC plants and then shipped to the pressing plants in large bags. Even today's vinyl is a bit different from that made in the past. For example, JVC super vinyl, which was made Japan, was considered very toxic and given it's by products, it could no longer be made. I have several plant videos that show them making the pucks from the PVC pellets if you curious.
With all of the variations in black vinyl, I have found some records from Germany that I could leave in all day and it doesn't make a difference because the vinyl flat can't get hot enough to reach it's melting point (or to the point where it will soften). I even immediately pulled it out of the bag and placed two 40 lb weights on the vinyl flat. While it did help a little, I still couldn't completely flatten it with another 80 lbs of pressure applied. Granted I wouldn't do this with all records but I do try it with records that have a very stubborn warp that won't go away. I could try placing it in the oven but I know my oven doesn't control the heat to well below 350 F.
Thanks for this. I just got mine and don’t want to mess up.
I hope you're having some success with it. It's good you just need to be a bit cautious when using it.
I started collecting colored vinyl lps in the 70s. They were rare then. At that time I read that they used black vinyl because it was harder. Most colored pieces back then were promos that went to radio stations and record shops. Very few artist released pieces to the general public, unlike today. There are only a few from that time like "We're An American Band" by Grand Funk, and "Bloodshot" by J. Geils Band that were common. I had to really search hard back then. Now I could by hundreds on Ebay in an afternoon if I had the funds.Kind of takes all the fun out of it.
This is true and it's really become too prevalent in my opinion with artists or labels putting out exclusive variants. People are losing site of the music.
omg! my heart just broke. one ofe my favorite records of all time damaged :O
i miss that record so much left it over in Greece and now i desperatly need to listen it.
Yeah. It would have to be one of my desert island disks and sorry to hear that was one of the records you had to leave behind with your move to Berlin. I am in the process of trying to procure a replacement copy. I hope some folks will catch this video and avoid my mistake.
just watched your vc intro video. Bent + other great stuff that i dont have and i MUST get! god damn they are not in the cheap range!
Broke on vinyl all the time...
I had the same thing happen on a piece of yellow vinyl. Took it out and it was fried. Learned a hard lesson. Won't do that again.
I hate hearing someone else shared my experience. Some color formulations have a lower melting point so I am always ultra cautious when trying to use the Vinyl Flat with them.
thanks, i have just put my vinyl in the oven between 2 sheets of glass. but only in a warm oven which is switched off after cooking and just for 5 mins.
That method has worked for a lot of people. The only challenge for a lot of ovens is being able to control the heat at very low temps. It sounds like yours does a good job of it.
Hey man, hope you see this message. I watched a more recent video of this device, and it sounds like they now ship with recommended times etc.. I wondered if in the years since you posted this, you have continued to use this, and what your success rate was? I have been collecting some old vinyl, and have a few albums that are slightly warped. I didnt want to waste money on something that didnt work well, or mauled records. Thanks!
Hello Travis. So I haven't botched another LP like this one. I used a secondary timer so the power is automatically pulled if I forget it. My success has varied. I find I am more successful with newer records. Older records can be a bit more challenging and I think it really depends on the formula that was used. Some older records I have baked for hours with little to no effect on the warp.
Sorry to see that your record got screwed up, but with %99.9 surety here, it's the quality of the vinyl itself for that pressing is the culprit in your disaster, and unsurprisingly your issue is happening with a colored vinyl record. Colored vinyl behaves way differently than black vinyl. To get the colored vinyl, two things basically happen: 1) anything that may be adding color to the vinyl material is removed, and 2) all kinds of other nonsense is added to the vinyl mixture to make the vinyl colored.
And regarding all that stuff that's removed? Much of it is necessary stuff, and important to have in there, so you can have good quality, durable vinyl that will last (black has stabilizers and other things in it to make it more durable).
Also, colored vinyl is very often a nightmare to work with on the presses (clear is the absolute WORST) because it's gooey and sticker, and causes all kinds of problems and issues. Not all colors are the same of course, but in terms of playback quality and durability, colored vinyl wears out a lot faster than black. Bottom line: colored vinyl is about novelty, not quality, and if you're really interested in getting a record to enjoy and listen to and hold onto, stick with black. Always stick with black.
Sorry your record got screwed up. :(
HG - You are correct in that the colored vinyl was the culprit. You are absolutely correct in that all vinyl is made differently and has different fillers/pigments added to change it's chemical properties. The additives changs things like the melting point, viscosity, hardness, Young's modulus, etc. Lubricants (or mold release compound) is a common agent that is added to prevent it from sticking to the stampers.
Also, not to refute what you're saying but depending on the filler composition, clear can be superior to black but it was far more costly to produce and toxic for that matter. For example, JVC's Quiex vinyl is clear in nature and although dark shows some transparency when put to a light. Classic Records, before they folded as a company, developed a Clarity Vinyl product which only saw a limited release. White on the other hand is the worst since this is an indication of Plasticized PVC in its almost purest state. White PVC has a tendency to be a bit softer...or at least that's my experience anyway.
i have had no luck whatsoever with my Vinyl Flat & Groovy Pouch. i have ruined several records trying to flatten them and more often than not the record is still warped, but ruined. i've tried leaving a record with a small warp in the flat for 2-3 months (with no heat obviously) with no luck with that either. wish i could get my money back. i suppose the answer is to put it in the pouch for an hour at a time no more than once a day for a week or two. hopefully that won't ruin the grooves and maybe it would reduce the warp enough to play ok.
Hi, late comer to this video. I've just destroyed the same Blade Runner (Audio Fidelity numbered !) in an AFI Flat ! It started warped but just playable. Processed under the Standard program (slow heating, 59min annealing, slow cool down, 4-5 hours total) . It came out flat but with the mottled orange peel look and rendered unplayable. It must be something in the QRP vinyl ? I've flattened many colored records in the AFI and the BR was the only one ruined. Fortunately I found a sealed replacement (at a cost !).
A sealed replacement at cost??? Damn dude, that's awesome. Anymore, when I do a colored record in this system, I've been ultra cautious and I don't push it. I think the QRP wax has a lower melting point than other PVC compounds.
Bro, major bummer. Sorry that happened to ya. I did the same with the Heavy Metal cartoon soundtrack - left it in too long and it totally flattened the grooves out. Live and learn eh ?
+Guilty Forgiven It's funny you mention Heavy Metal. I flattened that very piece a week or two ago. Ever since I lost this one, I have been super cautious. Thanks for watching.
Wow, that was really cooked, sorry about that. I have had decent results in the oven with 2 pieces of Travertine. Surprisingly I get better results the thicker the vinyl is.
Cool Wes. I guess the Travertine would offer some thermal protection and allow for a slow temp rise. I take it your oven is good at regulating a low temperature below 150 Fahrenheit? Before I bought my vinyl flat, I was really considering the DIY because the Vinyl Flat is not at all complicated but my oven is pretty crappy and could not regulate well below 200 which totally destroy the record. I would love to see a video of some of your results.
I know that this is an older video but I just traded for a pretty rare mispressed record and it must’ve gotten warped during the shipping from Sweden to here in the states. I was looking at getting just the vinyl flat and just putting my record in it (after washing it of course) and just let sit for like a month without using any heat. Have you used yours just “cold”?
I have tried it and I've had mixed results with a cold press. With older vinyl that's warped, I have had zero success but with newer records, I've had a little bit of success but wasn't able to totally eliminate the warp.
6 years late to the party, still I would say that the d.i.y. method of 2 plates of glass and 2 sheets of cardboard works better and doesn''t expose the records to over heathing.
Heat the glass to 60° for a few minutes, and place the record well protected with the cardboard (place the record inside a paper sleeve as well, for extra protection for the grooves) and you're good to go.
I guess this is old news for you after 6 years, lol.
Are you placing it in an oven? The problem with some ovens is there ability to control to a specific temp set point at low temperatures. I should try it some time.
Ouch man, hate to see that. Hopefully you're enjoying a second copy of that masterpiece!
Yeah, I managed to score another copy thankfully. It was a painful lesson though that I can't lose track of time. Thanks for watching.
So maybe you error was puting the records too much time in the groovy pouch? Maybe you recommend using the groovy pouch hour by hour leaving cool lapses in between? Something like that?
***** Yep. My recommendation is to take it slow and shoot for an hour at a time and gradually increase the baking cycles by 10 minutes each time until you get the desired result. My error was caused by putting it in the Groovy Pouch far too long. I actually lost track of time and when I checked it, it was toast.
Five years later, do you still use the vinyl flat? Worth getting?
I still use it. A number of newer pressings I buy still have minor warps so I still use it from time to time. I now use a timer, plugged into the electrical socket, to ensure I don't overcook a record.
Does it play?
No. You can't make out some of the grooves so it would just skip all over the place.
How many watts of power ?
+Toño P 60 Watts.
why they sale warped vinyl ?
It's a combination of things. Bad quality control at the plants, over compression by shrink warp, or bad storage while in the warehouse. Bad quality control can be fixed but some plants don't care.
thank you for your answer ;-)
how do you use there stupid website i live outside the usa it is ridiculous is there any other ways of purchasing the groovy pouch
Unfortunately, I am not aware of any other way to get the bag but, in my opinion, a heating pad will likely do just as good.
D'Oh! LOL
Yeah...total cluster.
4 hours...so you basically over cooked it like a pizza and melted the vinyl... doh. Try puttin it betwwen a thick towel and ironing it at low temp.
+Mark Cowan Not a bad suggestion ;) In the future, when I can find the time, I am going to try and see if I can do my own DYI Vinyl Flat.
This product isn’t worth the trouble. And over priced to boot!
It can be a challenge and as for the price you're right but a lot of stuff in this hobby is very niche so the mark up is high. Just look at the Spin Clean. $80 for $5 worth of plastic and a couple of felt covered pads.