Honestly, I agree completely, GG!Underfell sans was perfect because of how truly merciless he was, to the point of murdering orphans cause Yes. Now he’s basically just eviler dust tale sans. WHY WOULD THEY DO MY BOY LIKE THAT D:
I swear, MF’s can’t just make an evil character and keep them evil, they instead say “oh, hes actually kind of nice and can be redeemed and he holds compassion”
the only thing this guy is like extremely questionably the second one lol. tho yea i did like the pure evil one too , tho this one isnt bad in itself just because its the one that took the pure evil ones place.
@@alisaglam2465 Ok then why people keeps redeeming flowey? flowey literally pure evil as he just slaughtered whole monsterkind just bcasue he bored. there monster kids too. So hes aint a child murderer?
@@AntError_exist just as i say to gg underfell i say it to flowey. yea there are reasons why he went on to do these things but it doesnt justify nor excuse it , only giving prespective. flowey cannot feel anything (mostly atleast) emotions wise. to him it doesnt matter whatever option he picks because its all the same and it wont make him feel anything. he isnt asriel as a whole but he is asriel stripped out of his emotions put into a world with immense power , (as id say) driving him mad. its kinda dumb you assume i think everything flowey did is fine tbh but i kinda get it since some people probably do that. flowey did a lot of bad things but had reasons to do so. doesnt mean they are justified but gives prespective. flowey also isnt asriel as a whole too , wich kind of affects this since we are basing this off of an asriel that is a fraction of him (doesnt exactly change a lot but its not the person. flowey just by himself tho still has the whole "stripped of emotions" thing but since there isnt more to him there isnt anything else to talk about). in short , flowey by himself is a bad person but has his reasons , asriel is the same only being the whole version of flowey wich makes it that he acts like this under these conditions. not making him better but as i said so many more times it gives prespective to the character , showing they arent exactly pure evil but have some reasons to themselves.
@@alisaglam2465You can argue that Flowey IS Asriel but what he’s done is a result of all the trauma combined with his soullessness. He can be forgiven because he clearly is guilty of everything in the pacifist route & the ability to reset makes everyone come back on all the geno routes he did.
Ain’t no way blud went from “Haha blaster go boom boom die die haha brrrrr” To “I sincerely apologise for the reasoning that I have caused the slightest harm to your emotional nor physical state in this phase of matter my good sir..”
The point of the “Pacifist Route” is something I think a lot of fangame devs (and a lot of UT fans in general) miss. You’re supposed to *spare* everyone in Pacifist, because they all have reasons for what they’ve done. Sure, Asgore killed 6 children, but he also kind of *HAD* to. You can’t say with 100% certainty that you wouldn’t do the same in his position. Being sealed underground for centuries, losing both your children and your wife… He’s just doing what he has to, for his people, the one thing he has left. There’s a reason you can only *truly* spare Flowey, after he becomes Asriel and regains emotions in True Pacifist. In Neutral, he just runs away. Asriel literally says at the end of the game, if you backtrack to the first room: “There’s a lot of Floweys out there, and not everything can be solved with ACTing.” (Or something along those lines) Did GG!Fell Sans have a reason? Not really. He just started killing people, and eventually rationalized himself into trying to destroy the ENTIRE world. I’m not saying he couldn’t change *eventually,* but not instantly like this. That’s the same reason Sans kills you when you spare him in UT Geno, because you are *too far gone.* And he knows you can’t just change instantly like that, not after a mass murder. This is why the sleep ending with Papyrus worked. It left things open ended for sure, but it did hint that there was something. There was hope that Sans could *eventually* be redeemed. Flowey always runs when you spare him in UT, because he can’t be redeemed *yet,* but there’s still hope. The same should be true for GG!Fell Sans. He should *always* pass out, because he cannot instantly see the error of his ways. Not like Asriel, Asgore, Undyne, or most other UT characters could. Imagine if when you spared Omega Flowey, he just went: “Man, I’m sorry everyone, what have I done! I killed my dad, I’m such a baddie…” and then walked away in Toriel’s arms. 😭 There should still be that lingering hope for future redemption from your talk with Papyrus, but Sans can’t just instantly do a 180. He DEFINITELY can’t do it with *you* there, he despises you. That final talk with Papyrus, while Sans is asleep is INCREDIBLY well-written, and it’s insane to me that anyone could see *this* as something even close to the same level of quality. Papy’s speech was a little melodramatic sure, but *this* just sounds like bad fanfiction, and not in the funny way. *TL;DR, since this is super long and ramble-y:* Change takes time, and Sans passing out, along with Papyrus’s speech implied all that we needed. This was an unnecessary change that added nothing and just took away from a really good story moment, to instead have a weird Talk-No-Jutsu character assassination moment. This sucks. Deltatraveler feels like it can’t decide between being edgy, and being bright. So it just ends up being mid.
Also people need to stop treating the “MERCY” button like it’s an ability on some DBZ Soul Punisher type-shit. It’s really not. It’s just you putting down your weapon, and walking away. It’s you talking them down, not eliminating the evil in them. Not even the “SAVE” button in the Asriel fight does that. You *STILL* have to talk him down, and remind the Lost Souls of who they are with *words.* There’s no instant “madness purification”, despite what GG!Underfell seems to think.
i dont get why people think new ggfell sans killed people. old gg fell DID kill people. thats why the sleep ending worked. but here? he couldn't even bring himself to kill a child and a bunch of teenagers, he tries to, but cant. thats why he can be redeemed
@@overuseanimations4590 He LITERALLY admits to having gained LV during his fight, and you can’t gain that unless you kill monsters. That’s why his attacks do so much damage compared to UT Sans, as well. He also admits to wanting to *DESTROY THE WORLD!?* (Which has children in it???) Also him saying that he: *”Couldn’t bring himself to kill a child”,* implies that he *COULD* bring himself to kill a regular adult monster/person. And he was DEFINITELY trying to kill you the whole chapter. The letter full of bones, the Gauntlet of Deadly Terror, the attack in Snowdin Forest, not to mention his *entire* boss fight. None of those were empty threats. He would’ve killed you, if he was able to. If he genuinely, *“Couldn’t bring himself to kill a child”,* then his fight should reflect that. Like how Toriel’s attacks start to avoid you once you’re at low HP. *((Also, I think the fact that there IS a “New GG!Fell Sans”, is the problem that most people have. The “new” one just feels like a diet version of the old one. A lot less threatening, just sad, with poorly written dialogue.))*
honestly i dislike the whole "he got a forced redemption". that whole thing is literally him being forced to snap out of it forcing him to reflect on the things he had done. you might as well not be there after you push him even further and make him start breaking down. he isnt a good person and while this whole thing gives more prespective it doesnt excuse what he did. the whole destroy the world thing seems to be coming from more of a selfish and/or passionate side because of the suffer in the world. i understand it not perfect but this ending isnt bad honestly. the update caused some unnecesery changes , that i will agree with but the ending itself is more of making him snap out of it , forcing him to face what he did and all its consequences. its not "oh i suck :(((( but now im good :))))" its him being at his weakest being pushed even further to the point where he breaks down and is forced to face what he did. he doesnt even get up and go "i must be better" the only reason he gets back up an leaves is because papyrus comes to help him. you might as well leave him there to rot or be killed by a random person if papyrus didnt come. its not even "yipeee everything forgiven" even papyrus still cant forgive sans and as seen by the interaction between susie and noelle so will a lot of others. doesnt mean he cant try to be better with the help of papyrus or anything but some people still wont forgive him.
@@RangerW36 he may have killed SOME monsters, but he didn't exterminate all of monsterkind. sane has spared frisk even if they killed alot of people. same goes here. he is still reedemable. he still didn't extinct all of monsterkind to the point. both version sucks honestly, but old gg fell is just.. cringe.
What made GG-Fell Sans so interesting was how they blended a ruthless killer with Sans traits. Sans keeps his laziness in the sense that he likes to get things done as fast as possible and as easily as possible. He immediately gives Kris no chance for a fight, instead Papyrus is the one who saves them. He doesn’t like drawing out things too long. His comedy has been twisted into a cruel form of humor. He finds others agony hysterical and believes himself to be above everybody. He’s given up on Puns for something a truly cruel version of himself would find hilarious. His companionship is clearly still there as he strives to make Papyrus something he’s not. It’s only when Sans patience dwindles to zero is when he finally tries to kill Papyrus, if we ignore the envelope. ( Although I believe he knew Papyrus would survive, he simply wished to further implement the KILL or BE killed rules into papyrus. ) And his fourth wall breaking remains the same, he continues pulling shit that shouldn’t be possible but now not for demotivating the Human, instead for breaking the rules of his world so he can get a headstart or advantage over them. He would’ve softlocked Kris if not for Papyrus. What ruined Sans character for me is that they removed these traits by doing this… He was truly evil, a being who could be considered a force of nature in the underground due to how ruthless he was, and yet he suddenly has all of his interesting traits taken away because he felt bad. Sans shouldn’t feel bad, not after GG-Underfell or Deltatraveler, he knows who he is and understands he’s pure evil, and he relishes the feeling of killing innocents. He literally gloats about it. It’s just a damn shame with what happened, especially since he took all of Nightmare’s cruel acts and simply made them actually Sans like. He was probably my favorite Sans who was actually evil.
Thats basically Killer Sans already. Literally lot of fans thought GG Fell sans was actually Killer Sans at first. GG Fell sans literally just Killer sans but in Fell universe
changing a good character concept just because a few people thought it was "too edgy" which caused for even more people hate the new change has to be the most deltatraveler ahh thing of all time😭
To the people who say "Well the point of underfell is to redeem people who seem beyond redemption." While you're correct, the issue is how it is written. There's a huge difference between someone like Flowey/Asriel and sans here because there was an actual arc there that wasn't just "I kill children for fun" to "I'm such a bad person and I need to change!". Furthermore, it undermines what this sans stood for, which was the "relentless killer" flowey talks about in UNDERTALE. TLDR: Writing can make or break a theme or story as a whole.
i understand they wanted a spare ending... but why would they change the dialogues?! "it was the most cathartic kill i've done" was perfect! and "as if she had a familly that cared about her" too! what the hell?!
I think the whole reason I liked the OG version of this character more was that it really brought the question Flowey asked in the beginning to your face more: “But what will you do if you meet a relentless killer? You'll die and you'll die and you'll die. Until you tire of trying. What will you do then?” Even though you can call him rather cartoonish, I liked how utterly despicable he was because it did make you ask yourself *why* you would even spare the skeleton in the first place other than the pacifist quota. Sometimes, there are just straight up horrendous people out there, or as Asriel put it, Floweys. And they are the ones you can’t just talk things out and expect things to get better. OG GG! Underfell Sans shouldn’t be sympathized with - he should be killed, or at the very least locked away. And I enjoyed how unapologetic that was.
It'd be one thing to imply that Papyrus was able to gradually talk some sense into his brother. But redeeming him all at once? For [honk]s sake, they had to rewrite the intro just to make it "work!"
@@UlyssesK402 Except thats literally how canonfell works bruh. Everyone in canonfell "should be killed, or at the very least locked away" as fell flowey tells you cant spare them. But still, Undefell's quota that every monster can be still redeemable even if they serial murderers already. Sans in canonfell killed people before as his LV not 1. Asgore was the one who drugged and killed Chara and etc. In undefell, monsters "aint friendly and acting like what an actual monster would be" which you try neutralize them and show that there still other paths like mercy.
To be fair I think most players will still face this dilemma. As far as new players know he really did kill Suzy and he's been trying to kill you and he's killed a lot of others. Imagine the odds of a player randomly checking TALK after that whole fight. So for players without spoilers I think a lot of that energy is still there.
They should've absolutely kept the pre-fight dialogue. It made him stand out as a threat and was the first person you wholeheartedly wanted to kill. The most logical reason I can think for changing it is that they didn't want to play all their cards too early, and want to save the "irredeemable villain" for later on. However, I think his redemption was handled relatively well. I don't see it as "opening up to his sworn enemies". By tiring himself out, he's no longer focusing on the physical world around him, the terrible world of Underfell, as he doesn't have the strength to after being beaten by the Deltatravelers. Papyrus also says that he's had absolutely no sleep for ages, meaning he probably hasn't had any down time or self reflection. So because there's nothing else he CAN do, he starts thinking to himself. When he's answering Kris's questions, he's not actually answering them as much as having a good hard think about what he's done. He's in no position to keep fighting, so his mind focuses on something else. Why he revealed that he didn't kill Susie, I don't know. Maybe he had the slightest shred of respect for Kris after they beat him to a standstill. But either way, his mind has now snapped to self-reflection. He then starts thinking about what led up to this moment, and then his brother. And that's what snaps him out of it in the end. His brother, the only person left he still cared about, the one person who could (kind of) keep his murderous behaviour in check. And he realises that Papyrus might now be dead because of him. He doesn't care about revenge anymore. He's overwhelmed with guilt because he failed the last person he cared about. Everything is worthless now, because his brother is gone. and that's enough to snap him out of it. Not talking him out of it. Not repeatedly clicking Spare. Imagine if you were directly responsible for the death of your brother? Even if you think you hate him, deep down, you don't. You love him more than anyone else in the whole world. If anything was going to fix him, it would be Papyrus. And Papyrus did. Then right when all hope seems lost, Papyrus walks over to Sans. Imagine the relief he must have felt then. And imagine how much it must hurt for your brother is out point out how evil you've become. Wanting to be better for his brother is what drove him back to the straight and narrow. And what really sells it for me? He never even apologies to Kris, Susie or Noelle. Hell, he doesn't even acknowledge them after he starts his spiel about killing the weak. He's talking to himself there. I believe deep down he still hates them. But in that moment, he had much more important things on his mind. Or maybe I'm just being a bit silly. Maybe I'm trying a bit to hard to justify my favourite fangame. But hey, someone's gotta do it.
Yeah, I definitely saw what they goin for, but the way they executed it was kinda bad. They're wasn't any sort build up or hint to him havin any sort or realization, it just kinda happens at the end and it pretty much all starts from him sayin he didn't kill suise, and you kinda already pointed out that as an issue
@nissan1014 It would've been so much better if they kept the old pre-fight dialogue and at the end he was just like "fine. i didn't kill her, happy?" Then the pre-fight dialogue COULD be seen as being overly edgy to the point of Sans trying to convince himself more than Kris, Susie and Noelle. Putting up a front to make him seem more dangerous than he already appears, and he's dangerous enough already. I also think of he was a tad more aggressive with the reveal it would have opened up the possibility that he might have lied about sparing Suzy, leaving it up to player interpretation rather than being too on the nose.
I was never a fan of GG!fell Sans but I could at least respect it before for committing to the direction. That line about "what's she gonna do, tell her parents?" is funny though
This. This is what made GG!Fell Sans work previously. If you're going to write a sadist, [honk]ing *commit* to it! And if you're going to make him relatable, make THAT mild; make it so you can just *barely* relate to this guy. But for crying out loud, *don't* hold back on the sadism!
I think a lot of this discourse is missing the point. Theese changes were not made because the creator (VylettBunni) wanted to appease haters. First of all her real concern was the this "sans" really acted like Flowey rather than a darker version of himself. Secondly, her vision for GG!Underfell was always to have to have the characters not be the embodiment of evil ,but very desperate and misguided. She's acknowledged that the toriel fight was handled poorly and that she would do it completely differently today. In fact, she is going to reboot GG!Underfell. That is likely the real reason for this new fight ending. She wanted to give cloursure to one of the main characters before saying goodbye to this iteration. In terms of why Sans opens up to his enemies: He doesn't really have a choice. He's within an inch of his life and he's freaking overwhelmed. His mental defense cannot hold up under the strain and remember that he has to be asked several times before he actually reveals the truth. So under such stress he caves in and under that stress he also finally has a chance to reconsider everything he's done. Truth be told while you criticize the lack of setup I think the truth is this doesn't really redeem Sans at all. He is still really horrible. But it starts his redemption arc and tho we will never see it I can imagine it's going to be a long and broken road. Even he acknowledges that he doesn't deserve to live after everything ,but in the end he can still find purpose in being there for his brother and trying to undo at least some of the harm he has done. TLDR: This isn't appeasing haters it's about making the character more in line with the creator's vision and I feel like we should have respect for that.
exactly. the entire point of deltatraveler is imagining the fun gang in funny locations. they could have doubled down on the edginess and added a couple of jokes about just how edgy, cringy and POINTLESS the entire concept of underfell universe is and also maybe added some events for the story where the fun gang messes with sans (the original ending was kinda just that, fun gang doesnt care about the whole edginess and then sans just turns back into being lazy), or something, but instead they decided to make a child murderer ""relatable"" "because we all do mistakes, right?"
There’s no sudden change in the Dusttale Au that would make Sans randomly break down and suddenly want to spare the player like in this, atleast not in canon Dusttale.
They already did before update. The deceitful plot gimmick shit really ruin the whole story when serial killer trying actually murder you but I guess we gotta keep " player bad " agenda going I guess. Zelda section going to REALLY suck because Ganon minions won't give a flying fuck about your mercy.
@@Roto3 Thats the entire logic of Underfell. Every monster in Underfell literally serial killers dude. Underfell isnt even about being edgy, thats Fanon Underfell. Canon Underfell switches morals of monsters which makes all monsters act with kill or be killed philosophy and sans in Canonfell has killed people too before. Thats literally why he never closes his eye. If he does he can lower his guard down. Ya goal in Canonfell is to neutralize monsters and make them realize that way wrong and accept "MERCY", just like what happend in deltatraveler. We already have enough aus like Murder, Killer, Horror... Yet flowey even killed "kids" in canon. why everyone ignores that flowey also a child murderer?
@@AntError_exist this is GG!Fell, not the original. Also doesn't changed that Sans murders majority of Snowdin and have an abusive relationship with his brother. Also stop mentioning Flowey, he's a soulless kid that knows he can take his actions away by reset, Sans does not. And unlike him Flowey's change is a slow and gradual process, not a half baked "uwu I'm sorry"
bro on the update: "i apologize for everything I did, i hope i can be forgiven." bro BEFORE the update: HAHA F YOU YOUR DOING A F ING ROBLOX OBBY NOW AND I'M GONNA SPAM GASTER BLASTERS JUST SO YOU CAN RAGE QUIT FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Honestly i feel like you need MORE than just a half-assed attempt at rewriting a character for no reason. He feels like his dialogue is written Gearbox millenial style. Forced "relatability" for a fucking CHILD MURDERER. People do not relate to murdering children! Making him talk like he killed someone(in minecraft) is so much worse than just letting him talk like he just killed someone.
@@darkstar_xd Flowey, 1: Literally has no soul. 2: Has a change of plans when the Asriel fight starts (originally destroying everything, now he just wants to reset the timeline). 3: Loses his villainous intent when he's reminded of his good times with Chara (and one way or another, Chara *had* to be involved in that moment) whilst having active souls within him. GG!Fell Sans, on the other hand, 1: Probably has a soul, but is absurdly sadistic anyway. 2: Doesn't change his plans at any point. 3: Was not reminded of any good past.
I think the single best UF!Sans take I've seen is where he fights you because you showcasing MERCY to the Underground disrupts the sort of ringleader role he'd taken up over time, as well as him simply not *trusting* you _because_ of your unending kindness. "Oh don't say that about Sans, don't you know he's always got an ear out?" and "Trust me dude, you don't wanna be the butt of one of Sans' jokes." type beat. This Sans isn't the type to laugh with you, he's the type to laugh _at_ you, and he'll make sure to make your life hell if you try to break rank. People *fear* UF!Sans. But it's a fragile fear, as he's only got 2 ATK and 2 DEF. UF!Sans is a _coward_ who bullies everyone around him into submission via his vicious mockery and jokes. So *You* just showing up some day and being *nice* to everyone reaaaally throws a wrench into his plans. He only FIGHTs you to *prove that there is no truly good person.* To prove you *wrong.* To *force* you to throw a punch. To show that you've been a *fraud* this whole time, and that it's HIS way or the highway. The sweet touch is that AS he fights you, he's _scared shitless of you._ Because Sans KNOWS you're stronger than he is. He KNOWS your *existence* disrupts his chain of command. And, while he didn't pay much attention while he was in the Lab, he _does_ know that there's next to nothin' that's gonna stop a determined human. But he'll be *damned* if he isn't gonna try. Hence why his eye flashes Orange. *Bravery.* It's also just... weird??? You, a total stranger, a HUMAN, falls into the Underground where everyone and their mother's trying to rip you to shreds, and you don't even throw a single punch..? There's something up there.
@@Xenodrad5301 That's the funny part. The whole game, Papyrus takes every opportunity to bark at Sans to tie his shoelaces (it's like UF's sock to be picked up) So when he initiates the Geno battle, he gets his starting attack out... but when it comes time to dodge... he trips on those damn shoelaces 😭
Tbh, I must agree on the fact that GG!Fell having a redemption arc here is just extremely out of place It's not like I'm against the idea of this Sans being redeemable, but DeltaTraveler was the wrong place to do so, it feels moreso forced bc of all the hate he got for being "overly edgy Sans", now he just feels like a sort of Dust Sans minus the whole part of The Player manipulating the world to do eternal genocide routes and Sans suddenly remembering them all, aside, I feel like this changes just drops the idea out of the window that an specific human dod smth to Sans to make him as violent as he is in this AU
No matter how many times I replay this fight, I will always use Sleep Mist. It’s so much better to leave this open ended. The ONLY good addition to this fight was Susie actually reacting to sparing GG!Underfell Sans in the Obliteration Route. However if I could keep both that and the old dialogue, I’d make it so sparing him *wouldn’t* actually abort the route. Keeping him alive would make life in that world so much worse. That’s the whole point of the obliteration route, right? Screwing over entire worlds?
@@cedrolenon I think it works. I mean, I’d be pretty pissed if you just let go the person who killed a child. Not only that, but another version of yourself.
@@SneakTheOcto It's an overreaction to us the viewer cause we know he didn't actually kill her. It feels like Suise's dialouge there was written when that still actually happened.
the non stopping killing things have some impact in the characters making them to "draw blood" if u spare just one enemy, u cannot "draw blood" anymore so basically u cant kill enemies that can bleed anymore, like the moles, so they just scape instead of diying
Ironic you say that when old Disney had villains like Frollo and Scar. Villians that are definitely more evil than the current GG! Fell Sans. GG! Fell is someone who is flowey levels of being cartoonishly evil. You can’t just stitch that kind of evil on a character and expect me to take them seriously when it turns out they’re “not that bad”.
@@dennmenn99 Bro entire Underfell logic is that tho. Literally every monster in Underfell are literal serial killers like asgore who drugged and killed chara himself. In underfell pacifist route your goal is to make monsters realize kill or be killed isnt everything but there other options like mercy too and neutralize them
@@AntError_exist I said that you can’t just STITCH the cartoonishly evil aspect on a character I’m not saying you can’t have it. But it’s not easy to just turn a person around on a dime. A small change in dialogue isn’t going to make a redemption believable.
@@AntError_exist don’t get me wrong I’ll give credit where credit is due. Papyrus not fully forgiving sans is the right call. If Asgore couldn’t be forgiven by toriel for his crimes I think not being fully forgiven by papyrus is acceptable enough.
Yep, I also feel the same way Gg! Fell Sans was completely butchered narratively in this update. The orphan killer part was acceptable because there was nothing redeemable about him before. But now he became pretty tame, just a murderer Sans of the bunch.
To be fair, maybe a middle point between new and old would've been better. Maybe he still killed Suzy but didn't actually feel catharsis and was faking it. Maybe he opens up to Papyrus rather than to the trio or maybe during the fight it is Susie who makes him realize how he doesn't actually feel that proud of the kill. Although I do apreciate the addition of the jokes. Maybe if he joked more as to tease his "victims" rather than just "haha orphan no fathers" (So when outside QC's house) maybe it would've been a bit better.
@@skell6134 I mean, Canonfell asgore was the one who killed/drugged chara. Canonfell sans have more LV than 1 becasue he killed some monsters in past too. Also what about flowey? he literally slaughtered entire monsterkind in undertale and ther children too. So hes not a child murderer and can be reedemed just becasue he can "bring" everyone back? Remember UnderTale implies that "Saving and Loading" doesnt fully makes you escape and there are consequences follows it.
*How will you add the "redeemability?" >[Fiercely] [Gently] *You throw the "redeemability" into the pot so hard that you make a dent in it. Undyne: "Great! Now watch this!" *Undyne pummels the pot with spears. *The oven explodes with the force of a 500kg bomb. *The house is now a smoldering pile of rubble. *Load back to the last save point? [Load] [Continue]
I had made a character a while ago based on gg! Underfell sans (based on how evil he was) so now it’s sad to see my inspiration become “depressed” because of LORE. :(
I think that the important detail that everyone is missing here is that a redemption arc would've been possible if it was planned from the start. The problem with his redemption is simple. It all happens way too fast and out off nowhere, a problem that couldn't be fixed without editing a large portion of the chapter. The redemption would've either have had to have consumed time developing the next section or had to be minor enough to fit into an update. Now everyone probably wonders "Why even include one at all?" Good question... So anyway they picked the ladder
Personally, I think the ending is fine, it would be better if they didn't strip him from what he was, and like Based said "Opened up to the people that led him down this path." then it'd be better, what I would do is keep him being immoral, don't change him, but for the talk, the first few would be the same, and when he opens up and admits he couldn't kill her, instead of saying what he did, he'd say something like. "* no, she didn't turn to a pile of dust." "* she didn't die, i couldn't bring myself to kill her." "* i couldn't do it, seeing someone die then, even a child, knowing i did it, it'd feel wrong." "* looking down, it reminded me of what i was doing..." "* how bad of a person i had become." "* but now..." "* i regret not finishing the job there and then." "* she was weak, pathetic, the fear in her eyes, looking back on it now, i wouldn't hesitate." "* to see the life drain from her worhtless eyes, the pain and suffering i caused, i loved every second of it." "* i may be a monster now, but that isn't different from how i started." "* after all..." "* it's kill, or be killed!!!" Followed by the black screen flash, and he's gone. Or something like that, I'm no writer, and that's kinda how i imagine it'd play out if they didn't ruin how he was, we still have him open up, but he doesn't regret it now, he doesn't feel remorse, he wouldn't hesitate to dust her anymore, and I think that what I've given works better, he's watered down, tired and weak, but despite that he doesn't cave, because YOU as the player want to talk, help him, doesn't mean he's gonna care, and I think using this ending to further enforce the fact he thinks it's kill or be killed, works so much better than what excuse for an ending we did get. OR, this picks up when he says "* i just..." "* i just could care less." "* all of you are weak, pathetic." "* looking at you, it's funny, ironic." "* despite doing what i did you didn't hurt me." "* you couldn't even finish the job." "* but the difference between us is..." "* i will." Then you'd get the whole box same size as the soul thing, a large blaster charging up, and before it fires, Susie attacks, or if you have ample TP, uses rude/red buster because that'd be cool, and is the one to end it, cleaving right through his body, and that's that.
I feel like the new obliteration version of the pacify is a far better assertion of how a character like this would be snapped out of their ideology. Him being almost freaked out by your choice to spare him of all people causes him to have a brief moment of lucidity, before reprimanding you for your choice, and choosing to go somewhere else to take a nap. By encountering someone worse, with a far more messed up worldview of "just to see what happens" it causes him to briefly reflect. That's how stuff like this should be done. The only way to challenge a character like this is to one-up them, because if they think you're messed up, they clearly know they've crossed a few lines.
Okay now I regret saying GG!Underfell Sans was way too edgy, because now he's way too tame. You're telling me he didn't actually KILL an orphan? That has got to be one of the lamest cop-outs for a rushed redemption arc I have ever seen. Genuinely hope the next section won't be nearly as bad as section 3 or I'm probably gonna just completely drop Deltatraveler
@@JacksonVoet That’s a really dumb sentiment. People should be allowed to make criticism, discouraging that prevents people from improving. Criticism is important, any artist could tell you that that. (Music, Drawing, Writing, Coding, Etc.) The *problem* is that the DeltaTraveler devs overcorrected, not the people who offered their own complaints. I personally didn’t think the original GG!Fell Sans was too edgy, I actually loved how edgy he was. But if someone *does* think that, they are 100% within their right to voice that opinion. (As long as they aren’t being an asshole about it)
@@RangerW36 Fair enough. I was just repeating the sentiment of the original commentor. I actually like the change, and I just wish that they used far more drawn out sentences and maybe a few attempts at dunking before his facade breaks fully.
@@JacksonVoet Yeah, I think it *could’ve* been done well if there was more, maybe some hints at his facade cracking earlier in the chapter? Like maybe when he knocks Papyrus off the cliff, his expression is bit more regretful? Or maybe have that letter full of bones that Insta-kill’s you, be full of *blue* bones, so you don’t die as long as you stand still? I think there’s a lot of things they could’ve done to make it feel more natural, but with the way it is currently, it honestly just feels rushed to me. Just kind of an unnecessary addition, when what we already had was fine. And they got rid of, “Most cathartic kill i’ve ever done.” that was an iconic line :(
@@RangerW36 Yeah, and honestly, those touches might be added eventually. The creator is a decent storyteller, and has nailed the Deltarune characters to a T.
Gg uf sans is the first evil sans that wasn't ruined by tumblr. (Thanks god it's not 2015 anymore) It's the first time I've seen an evil sans that intimidates so much by doing little (I'm looking at you murder sans). I'm sad that we're now stuck with this sanitized version :(.
For me, what they could've done is retaining the lines from before, and make him "accept" your mercy to make a sneak attack, only for him to get killed. Not only shows how far GG!Fell could go for his philosophy but also shows that not everyone can be redeemed in the world, which is something that I feel even OG Undertale forgot about for a second
Hell, Deltarune even establishes that that's what Sleep Mist is even for; you can't spare King, he won't listen to you, so to spare him anyway you beat the hell out of him and then *force him* to stand down. The Sleep Mist ending was, as far as sparing GG!Underfell Sans goes, literally perfect. Papyrus gets the redemption instead; and he really isn't sure whether Sans will be receptive to it or kill him too, strengthening his character as willing to risk that chance on the idea that his brother loves him too much, and mirroring his scene in Genocide.
@@gremlin2239papyrus is also brave enough to stand up to the human during genocide, even admitting he was kinda afraid when you do spare him. So gg!fell papyrus being willing to redeem himself despite the potential danger of being killed by sans makes this papyrus actually feel like a papyrus.
Am I the only one who missed when the underfell cast were presented as pure evil and irredeemable? I mean something we lack in this fanverse is pure evil antagonists. I’m not a fan of Glitchtale but I can at least respect the series having a pure evil main villain.
I feel you The original underfell is so much better than this I mean gg underfell is more like a alternative timeline unlike canon underfell who is a au
Ehhh… I still prefer canon undersell and its themes more. It expands its ideas well and is much more than “undertale but everyone is evil”. It’s a pure concept au but DAMN are the contexts handled well
The deltatraveler devs bassically tried to do the same thing with gg!underfell sans as dragonball super did with thier movie villain broly. And i really mean *tried to*
But in dragon ball they changed almost everything about the character In deltatraveler he's the same character until the ending where it does a 360 out of knowhere
Nah, they tried to do what Z did with Vegeta, but they messed it up. Vegeta’s arc only worked because he never really regretted his actions *(at least not until VERY recently).* He was still a jerk, he just knew he couldn’t beat Goku, so he settled down to train until he could. Eventually though, he got attached to his family, which is what caused him to stay on Earth, and is eventually the reason he sacrificed himself as Majin Vegeta. GG!Fell Sans doesn’t get that. There’s no slow burn to his arc. He just loses a fight and then instantly goes, “Oh no, what have I done to my brother!”. Which is why it doesn’t work. Those kind of story arcs need time.
Bro went to the biggest menace of Undertale history to the biggest fraud in the space of a few weeks ❗️❗️😭☠️🙏🗣️ But seriously, i think that the old GG!FellSans was perfect. He was really the embodiment of «Everyone can’t be forgiven, so why even bother ?». However, now he is much more like «Oh no, what i have done ? You make me see the light». The fact that his old self REALLY kill Suzy was really make me love and see him as someone really perverted in a genocide way. And yes, i know that the Mercy Route in general is about either make them what they have done or to just be their normal self or things like that, but the old FellSans fight were able to make us understand that sometimes, There is people that we can’t just… forgive, someone like frieza or cooler from dbz, the old GG!FellSans knows that he’s a mess in his mind and probably knows he can’t be forgiven for what he did and the BEST about his character… he understands and already knows this. He only wanted to take revenge against the humans,but at the end, he will ACTUALLY kill everyone WITHOUT exception that stands on his way including his own brother. Sorry if that a bit harsh, but, i feel a bit disappointed about his new self. The old Fell Sans for me was WAY better. Sorry for that long ahh text, i just needed to get off that of my chest.
It’s more consistent with the original GG: Underfell. The whole reason the game is like that is because the player downloaded an “evil mode” which altered the characters. Totoro still murdered children while under the influence of that strange corruption, but sparing her snaps her out of it. With Sans, we had to get him to admit that what he was doing was just a flawed attempt at suicide, and that all he did was make the world worse in an attempt to destroy it.
honestly most of what you said isnt taken away from the new version. i understand liking the previous pure evil version but this version is just that but he isnt pure evil and we are given a different prespective of him while still knowing he did terrible things and it doesnt absolve him of those things. a lot of people also just wont forgive him. again , the only change is that he isnt pure evil and that there is more to it than just "haha murder random people and orphan" while keeping the whole unforgivable thing. (the only in this is a bit of a oversimplification i think but in general this is what changed)
They messed up,and we know that. He was menancing because he dont care if semeone begged for his life,he dont was edgy cuz he was a TRUE concept of what a killer is. And that affects gg!Underfell Au SO MUCH. Toriel Killed children,and then she waked up,she was in a rage attack cuz Asgore like and what awakened her was a HUMAN what she loved so much makes sense,ALL the monsters are going past it,but then they make THIS SANDS get ok because he almost killed pepeya?BRO ALMOST KILLED A ORPHAN,MASSACRED WHOLE SNOWDIN,CRACKED HIS BROTHER SKULL WITH HIS BARE HANDS and what makes he get off it?His brother!!Makes so sense guys!..Nah they'd failed
i think the main reason that people dislike him now is due to just how unneeded these changes were. sure, sans being an orphan killer and whatnot isn't exactly the most perfect writing, but the shock factor from him outright saying "yeah i killed an orphan" and following his ideology through is what made him cool. now, with no buildup and these unneccesary changes to dialogue, he's just kinda.. meh. cool fight, but that can be said for most fangames at this point. really worried for not only how deltatraveler's going to go from now on, but gg!fell as a whole.
I liked this character because it was menacing. He was like a serious and emotionless version of Dust Sans. Unlike other sanses he was the one who tried to attack you. And with that spare ending, it feels like he got humiliated. He became another emo sans which we already have a lot. And the reason behind those actions feels so forced. Like "i want to destroy the world so there will be no pain." is a simple and predictable reason.He shouldve been unredeemable. But obliteration spare ending was decent actually.
Obliteration Spare is the *one* thing I'd be willing to hold onto, should GG!Fell Sans get reverted. In fact, it works better with Old!GG!Fell Sans than New!GG!Fell Sans.
We already like have killer sans as the irredeemable variant sans so ggfell in this could just be rip off of he didn't snapped out the ideology "kill or be killed'
lol you realize og underfell sans was never like that if you look at the og creators facts about them none of them were just wacky killers holy this is the reason why I left this annoying fandom
@@overuseanimations4590underfell had his own thing going on, as well as being like the og og AU basically. And he’s way less complicated then “look I’m sans but sludge that was brother to another sans that became pure evil and got a bunch of other sanses that were pure evil (one not even having his au complete) to do whatever since bad emotion = good for me in multiverse timelines and etc etc.” underfell was always more simple and had way more potential, other then horror but sour apple studios basically disappeared, but in 2024 they did make like two posts on devian art about a reboot of horror tale so not all hope is lost.
I feel like they could've made it so where he still said "That was the most cathartic kill i've done" but also have him say "I couldn't watch her die, didn't want too call much attention to myself" so it was still open ended to whether Orphan!Susie died or not. Looking back at my comment on the last video on GG!fell!sans, well safe to say do NOT let me cook at 6:00 am after staying up all night, while i still do agree that a version of sans that has been affected by GG!fell would not be able to go through with killing Orphan!susie, i feel like they still should've just had the sleep mist ending where sans falls asleep and papyrus comes in and talks to sleeping sans, they definitely should've saved the whole redemption thing for the GG!underfell series, and not deltatraveler
The problem is that before this point he is basically just Flowey pasted onto the skeleton same ideology and everything "kill or be killed" so without a bigger change from the start of the chapter the redemption falls flat. A character rewrite like this needs more than just additions and slight changes at rhe end
exactly, sans redemption isnt necessarily bad, but the execution was. they needed to give his arc more time. hot take, but i like having him redeemed partially because idk how to feel about pure evil characters (also i just like happy endings)
I remember the time I walked up to William Afton and said "But William, you can still be redeemed! I know you murdered a school bus worth of children for your selfish goals, but deep down you are a good person!" Causing him to instantly cry and then go with me to Disneyland
I used to say: "Sans seems like the type who'd be good at hiding his emotions. Not like the depressed stereotype people make him out to be, but the 'you can never really tell with him', type of guy. Then I learned today they changed everything evil about this Sans. Lets just say I am way more disappointed than I was when I first heard about the redemption ending.
I think it would’ve been better if sans did kill Susie but immensely regretted it but was confused, why he was feeling regret for her, so he kept lying to himself that it was a cathartic kill, however, even if he acted like it, he never believed himself. It isn’t perfect but it makes him still savage and terrifying villain with all his cool lines while still having the talk ending.
I'd like to add a few things, as some one a little more "in the know". This change was done, not only because people criticized the section for being too edgy, but because Sarah isn't a fan of her old writing, and decided she wants to completely reboot her underfell series, meaning GG!Underfell is essentially dead. Sarah wanted to give it a send-off, which is why she added this ending, but it's also why everything seems so sudden, as while this was the original intention for GG!Sans, all of this was meant to be explored throughout the series, and not offloaded in one 5 minute scene. Sarah decided it was best to do it this way as it didn't feel right just ending it out of the blue, without any kind of closure. The rewrite was done with the help of Beethovenus, the project lead of TS!Underswap. The intention was to make him seem more like Sans and less like flowey. They intentionally decided to leave the old endings untouched for players who prefer the old version of the character. I get why people are frustrated, I really do, but we were never seeing GG!Sans again anyways, and I do think it's a decent send off, even if it's an entire game's worth of character work offloaded in 5 minutes.
It is nice Beeth tried to help with this new ending. And help make Sans feel more like Sans. TS!UnderswapSans is one of the best Sanses after all Iimo. And they great takes on other characters and etc. too. ^^ And that Sarah wanted to give some kind closure and better send off to GG!UF. I also do really like how u tried to make GG!UF Sans feel less like Flowey and more like Sans. I like OG GG!UF Sans, but I do think he could have felt more like Sans. I like the limited amount of time to actually show this new GG UF!Sans made it show him being more like Sans couldn’t be shown to its fullest. Which sadly caused this old GG!Fell Sans new GG!Fell Sans divide with people. Hopefully the new still hopefully a thing UF series can show their take on UF Sans that feels more like Sans. I feel like there is a lot of ways to do a more dark, antag, etc. Sans and still have feel like Sans, and maybe get redemption down the line. Anyways, also hopefully can see more of other UF characters in Sarah’s possible new UF take? I’m happy both the old and new ending(s) are still a thing in the new update. I have been mainly watching and reading stuff on DT, like gameplays and this video and their other GG!UF one. And just getting into playing UT/DR fangames again a bit ago. And was gonna do DT soon when I saw all this, and as a Sans fan and Noelle fan )but I saw that Noelle went through some changes too), and someone about to play DT for myself. I was like, oh my what is this. And wondered if I could still play an older pre major character changes and this new one. And it looks like I kinda can? Except the pre-battle dialogue that is tamer now, apparently. And some others lines of dialogue and stuff, I guess. Which is something, at least. It’s interesting I saw in the iodate post of the update that did all these new YF Sans changes, among a lot of other stuff. Sarah mentioning a big Sans overhaul they were gonna do in a future update, and I originally thought it was another GG!UF one, but now I wonder if it was for DT Sans instead. Either way I’m curious about it, and hope it will great! Sorry, that paragraph was kind off topic, but still kind of on-topic. This post was very interesting. Nice to see and understand more of the intentions behind this stuff. Esp. since it makes feel better about all this, after some of stuff I have seen about this here and elsewhere. So that’s cool. Sorry this was long. Have a breast day/night!
@@Dragon_Aoi worth noting I don't work on the game, I'm just in the know with people that do. The Sans overhaul was for GG!Sans, basically revamping the fight and the two new endings, but we are getting Crossbones (in the TS!Underswap section) and an original Sans fight in the future (and potentially a DR/UT sans fight), so there's that.
Why not just add an option to switch bewteen the old gg!fell sans dialogue and the new one? That would make people happy by having the gg!fell sans we prefer while still having the new dialogue around as an option.
I actually really like the new fell sans, not because he was too edgy before but because I feel like it makes the game offer a better version of pacifist. (Also it was possible to get softlocked here before if you didn't have permacicle/ring)
To be fair, it’s been heavily implied that something came over the monsters, so the way you spare them is by making them think about what they’re doing. That’s why sparing toriel works. She brings up the other children, and that makes her realize what she did. Same with sans. He brings up papyrus, mentions him not accepting his philosophy, and then realizes what he’s done. Though I agree the pre-fight dialogue didn’t need to be changed, and their should’ve been more setup. Feel free to point out any flaws in my logic, I’d be happy to engage.
Yknow... It's ok if the creator of gg!Underfell wants Sans to be redeemable. But a redemption arc for Sans at the end of session 3 is the wrong place. I think the old endings already brought so many cool things to this universe. But they literally got deleted completely
they do this to every character to try and make them "relatable" LIKE BRO HE KILLED CHILDREN AND THEN MONOLOGUED ABOUT IT and now suddenly he's ur friend? yea makes alot of sense
Honestly it would've been cool if for the new talk ACT, Sans will ONLY actually talk back to you once, with the same dialogue he actually says in this new update after the first time. If you try to talk to him again, you would simply get a "Sans is ignoring you" response. It would show that, even when they are at your mercy, evil people aren't going to change through one conversation. So your only option to ending the fight peacefully is knocking them out through non-lethal means (Sleep Mist in this case). Oh well, at least the new abort Obliteration ending was a really good, much-needed addition. It was cool to see Susie actually get angry with you because she should be angry, and also to see that even someone as evil as Sans can be taken aback by your cruelty.
They shouldve shown signs of him changing in a mercy route, some sort of regret, and later on get glimpses of his character getting better over time if we ever meet them again Idk
Me and my friend sort of came up with this idea of GG!Underfell Undyne being more of a heroic killer, a lot more agressive but motivated by her will to free monsterkind and destroy humanity, and, in the same way you see sans show up throughout undertale, he would show up throughout underfell to try to kill you multiple times. In this sense, maybe him and Undyne would have a hatred for eachother since Undyne's justice based mindset goes against sans's ruthlessness. Undyne protecting other monsters while sans kills them, so when they clash, Undyne would berate sans about his actions and point how how he's done what the humans did and made life worse for the monsters, that he's just as bad as they are, leading to sans starting to come to the realisation that all he's done is destroy the lives of the people closest to him, coming to ahead in the Final Corridor where he battles you for the final time only to completely break, similar to this scene but without the "uhh yeah i didn't actually kill lol it was just a prank". Instead a real redemption where he acknowledges what he did and the regret he NOW feels that he never felt for his actions before due to being blinded by hatred, the human would then spare him and he would put his belief in them, into the very thing he tried to destory everything for, telling them that he's rooting for them and hopes that somehow they can make the Underground a better place by convincing Asgore to change. The scene mirroring the "Choice" scene in pacifist's final corridor but instead of being revolved around questioning what you'll do, it's more about hoping that you will be able to do the right thing, as you had been doing through the whole journey.
@@overuseanimations4590 Why are y'all trying to downplay his actions so bad? He still killed, he still killed a lot of his own kind. he literally says that in-game... and even if he couldn't bring himself to kill a child, he still almost did so. Stop downplaying his actions.
Well tbf, Undyne and Mettaton tried to actually kill you multiple times, but you end up being cool with them. But still, with his whole personality and all that, yeah he definitely should have not been redeemed that easily.
I just read the long comment about the Pacifist Route in Undertale, and I honestly agree. Sans Underfell could change, but it would defintelly take time, not just random "What have I done?", and you would spare him knowing that he will most likely not change for a long time, not just because you hope that he will change (if you do that is), but also to have the pacifist ending. I'm not sure if I worded my thoughts correctly to be honest, but I THINK I conveyed my point.
I honestly feel like it would fit more into a continuation of his fight like another final attack instead of a different ending. Like him revealing his story but not letting go of his motive and keeps fighting, and thus the only "sparing" ending being the sleep ending. Pretty unneccessary changes to a cool character.
I don't think the new ending is that bad but the new pre-battle dialogue is not that good, I honestly prefer the old one. Although the Parents joke was pretty funny.
Honestly, I feel it should be more of a personal choice. Some people may prefer the emotional attachment and dialogue that comes with it. It's really just dependant on whatever the consumer wants out if it.
The only thing that came out of this "overhaul" with just actual positive feedbacks is the unique dialogue you get from sparing Fell Sans in the obliteration route.
Heres my hot take: Both character concepts were bad. I think an "Evil" sans would work best as just someone cold and detached. Not sadistic, not "wah wah my brothers dead", just cold and detached from everything. That'd really fit into the "Your choices don't matter" theme of Deltarune pretty well.
Didnt they also add a new ending, where, if you put sans to sleep on the ruthless route, he crities you for letting him live, despite killing countless other monsters? He says that your even worse than he is, walks away and is presumed to have fallen aslepp somewhere of screen.
Honestly I know why they changed it too make it sound less "edgy" but it backfired horribly and made his character less interesting now he feels like an average "bad sans misunderstood" instead of an actual horrible person
"I killed people and tried the same with you but now that we talk I'll make everything okay, ignoring the fact that I'm a potential threat." I like that there are variants for an ending, but here they are just screwing it up more and more. I'm starting to worry about how the next chapters will go in the future.
Old GG!fell:I am psychotic murderer who has no redemtion whatsoever, I killed an orphan and will kill you! New gg!fell:I am so sorry I am a bad person please forgive me 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I think the reason they did this is that we are in deltatraveler, we go to universe to universe making some kind of change, and maybe thats why of the changes... I think it will be much better executed in the actual gg!underfell series.
in my opinion, the old GG!UF Sans was the one thing that UT-DR lacked since the 2015. The PURE EVIL character. The ruthless one, who wouldn't stop at anything or anyone just to destroy everything around him. And that is what the old Sans was I know, we all don't like the "evil for the sake of evil" type of characters, but there ARE people like this, and that's what expands on the UTDR moral dilemma. "Can you show mercy to merciless?", "Can you give hope to hopeless?", "How far would you go in your evil/kind ways just to prove your point?". When sparing Sans in pacifist route, it really gnaws at you, are you really doing a good thing here? Or maybe you're enabling him in his wake of destruction? To continue this wretched cycle of violence? Or maybe he will change his ways, just this once, with Papyrus' help? Nobody knows When you spare him in genocide route, seemingly for no reason at all, why did you do it? You've already doomed an entire another world by having Ness and Paula perish at your feet, so why didn't you stop the pure evil? Perhaps, seeing him having an audacity to gloat about killing children made you snap out of your own killing spree? Killing him in pacifist means that your conviction in universal forgiveness has shattered, as you begin to adapt to this cruel world. "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word", right? Killing him in genocide, that's your "evil" point being proven even further. Evil makes no difference between who it brings pain to, endless cycle of hurt goes on Shame that such a multi-faceted encounter has come to "duh lets redeem him right quick in 2 minutes". Slaughter at Snowdin - forget it. Multiple killing attempts at the main crew: vanished. Sans almost knocking Papyrus from the ledge to his doom - "come here bro lets do good together". Such a shame, really
gonna just summarize my thoughts here plain and simple, cuz i'm not gonna repeat what others have said in depth. If I had to describe this update to DeltaTraveler in one word, it would be "Unnecessary". The Dialogue Changes for his Pre-Battle and Genocide Death (Not Snowgrave) were just completely unneeded, making him less threatening and already showing signs of undermining what he characterized. As for the Talk Ending (i REFUSE to call it the pacifist ending because that should be reserved for the Sleep Mist Ending), It was just a completely and utter assassination of both sans' character, and the quality of this chapter. Before this, I viewed sans similarly to how I view Big Jack Horner from The Last Wish, A Pure evil force of nature that provides both Comedy Gold and Much needed stakes. Instead he's been watered down to just that one annoying kid in your school that nobody talks to. This also makes me worried about the direction of DeltaTraveler, and more importantly, GG!Underfell. The latter is because I seriously hope to god they do NOT repeat this in GG!Underfell or else that's gonna be a major turn off for me to continue watching the series, cuz gg!fell sans' character does not deserve to be butchered that hard ever again.
also, in the new update, now in the Talk Ending, if you talk to sans in the shop, he says to you that he thought that you would put him to sleep, showing that even sans doenst belief that this monstruous menace can just talk things out
Want to make him redeemable? Sure! But insted of making him less "edgy" maybe add talk option, and overtime maybe slowly realise that people can be good. And at the end, maybe let him talk about his past, and why he belives that. And have him open up that reason he wanted to get stronger was to protect papyrus, but that that goal got lost when he started enjoying killing. Have him say that he knows he is not redeemable, maybe then have papyrus show up and offer to turn new leaf with sans.
the problem with this is you cant. the character is a diabolical sadistic delusional monster who either just jumps you and then leaves or is just there , before the final fight. he is also not about reasoning , he just hates you and doesnt really care about anything else. the only thing that makes him snap out of it is when he is at his weakest and when you push him until he just starts breaking down. a lot of these "better ways of doing this" also arent really better. you cant make a diabolical maniac better by making his reason to do this be protecting his brother. sure he might have dont it at first for his brother but so did he do it for a supposed "good" reason in the new version. also outright stating stuff and spoonfeeding isnt that good. i dont think the guy who breaks down and gives up on life after he fully understand what he did has to go "oh nooooo i suck so bad" for you to understand that he knows he sucks. this ending itself is pretty flawed with unnecesery changes but good in my opinion. its a character that isnt inheritly bad but did a lot of bad things because of life circumstances and all , that fell into delusion and believed what he was doing was for the better (like a lot of bad people who do bad things out of good intentions) but then be forced to snap out of it at his weakest and be forced to face what he did and fully comprehend it. i do think the dialogue changes and all that is unnecesery tho.
Here is something they could have done to make it be more in character. When they try to spare sans he attempts to lunge at them,Papyrus could have stopped sans when they spare him by surrounding him in a bone cage and sans starts to go crazy repeating “Kill or Be Killed” before suddenly having a momment of realization that he’s feared and no one even wants to see him. He realizes he hasn’t really achieved anything. He doesn’t forgive Susie, Kris or noelle. He makes it clear he despises them and papyrus calms him down and they walk away. Sans clearly still has killing intent. But has calmed down and knows he’s too weak too right. And never had a change of heart. And is cursing you out while walking away cuz funny.
two things i noticed in this update is that first: the swear is . . . gone? idk for the rest of the game but for his battle his swears are gone. For example in the start susie says:"you fucking pyscho!" but now she says something like "you sick psycho!" (something like that) In the battle, before the update, he says (something like that) in one of the dialogues:"and you are COMPLETELY oblivious of what you have done to me, what a fucking insult" and now he says basicaly the same thing, but not with the swear the second thing it is in the papyrus uno "fight" because now they added new music from deltatraveler, Papyrus Belief, undertale Yellow,etc, which include some that change the background like Guns Blazing, and which, theres one that is Frankness, that if you activate papyrus goes all out and even changes the sprite to Edit: when in grillbys after the sans fight, if you talk to one of the dogs, eventally Susie says "could be less cryptic, asshole" so yeah the swear inst exactly gone
Here's my take: What we had was a good character concept, yes... but it didn't align with an Underfell Sans. What these changes are trying to do is to remember that this character used to be Sans, but they overcorrected it. The arc was too rushed. I've said this before, but there is a place in DeltaTraveler for a remorseless villain like this formerly non-Sans character used to be. Just not here. I personally would assign this to The Chairman in the Toontown chapter; he's done countless unforgivable destructions and dismemberments to his employees in Corporate Clash alone.
Also yeah, in the fight ending, Sans was practically the same as Flowey in relishing the fact that you supported the natural way of things, that you’re another cog in this machine that you’ve proven to be true
Og GG!Fell Sans was genuinely the first time in any Undertale fangame where I absolutely hated a character from the moment they were introduced, but that's not a bad thing, it made him unique compared to the myriad of other sans's who are "misunderstood", the fact they changed him to be a "boohoo i didn't really mean it" villain is mildy annoying to say the least.
Here's my discord server by the way,how could I forget! discord.gg/KP9hc2tF
Honestly, I agree completely, GG!Underfell sans was perfect because of how truly merciless he was, to the point of murdering orphans cause Yes. Now he’s basically just eviler dust tale sans.
WHY WOULD THEY DO MY BOY LIKE THAT D:
I swear, MF’s can’t just make an evil character and keep them evil, they instead say “oh, hes actually kind of nice and can be redeemed and he holds compassion”
the only thing this guy is like extremely questionably the second one lol.
tho yea i did like the pure evil one too , tho this one isnt bad in itself just because its the one that took the pure evil ones place.
Truly a case of "we did this because we were tired of x overused trope and now people will overuse this"
@@alisaglam2465 Ok then why people keeps redeeming flowey?
flowey literally pure evil as he just slaughtered whole monsterkind just bcasue he bored. there monster kids too.
So hes aint a child murderer?
@@AntError_exist just as i say to gg underfell i say it to flowey. yea there are reasons why he went on to do these things but it doesnt justify nor excuse it , only giving prespective. flowey cannot feel anything (mostly atleast) emotions wise. to him it doesnt matter whatever option he picks because its all the same and it wont make him feel anything. he isnt asriel as a whole but he is asriel stripped out of his emotions put into a world with immense power , (as id say) driving him mad.
its kinda dumb you assume i think everything flowey did is fine tbh but i kinda get it since some people probably do that.
flowey did a lot of bad things but had reasons to do so. doesnt mean they are justified but gives prespective. flowey also isnt asriel as a whole too , wich kind of affects this since we are basing this off of an asriel that is a fraction of him (doesnt exactly change a lot but its not the person. flowey just by himself tho still has the whole "stripped of emotions" thing but since there isnt more to him there isnt anything else to talk about).
in short , flowey by himself is a bad person but has his reasons , asriel is the same only being the whole version of flowey wich makes it that he acts like this under these conditions. not making him better but as i said so many more times it gives prespective to the character , showing they arent exactly pure evil but have some reasons to themselves.
@@alisaglam2465You can argue that Flowey IS Asriel but what he’s done is a result of all the trauma combined with his soullessness. He can be forgiven because he clearly is guilty of everything in the pacifist route & the ability to reset makes everyone come back on all the geno routes he did.
Ain’t no way blud went from
“Haha blaster go boom boom die die haha brrrrr”
To
“I sincerely apologise for the reasoning that I have caused the slightest harm to your emotional nor physical state in this phase of matter my good sir..”
Bro really pulled a "I have made a severe and continuous lapse in my judgment"
HE TURN BRI'ISH!!!
That’s why he turned black and white. He’s doing a Travis Scott apology.
Bro really turned of "OOF YOURSELF NOW!" to "You should treat yourself now:)"
He went from "the most cathartic kill" ophan killer to a youtube apology video
The point of the “Pacifist Route” is something I think a lot of fangame devs (and a lot of UT fans in general) miss.
You’re supposed to *spare* everyone in Pacifist, because they all have reasons for what they’ve done.
Sure, Asgore killed 6 children, but he also kind of *HAD* to. You can’t say with 100% certainty that you wouldn’t do the same in his position. Being sealed underground for centuries, losing both your children and your wife… He’s just doing what he has to, for his people, the one thing he has left.
There’s a reason you can only *truly* spare Flowey, after he becomes Asriel and regains emotions in True Pacifist. In Neutral, he just runs away.
Asriel literally says at the end of the game, if you backtrack to the first room: “There’s a lot of Floweys out there, and not everything can be solved with ACTing.” (Or something along those lines)
Did GG!Fell Sans have a reason? Not really. He just started killing people, and eventually rationalized himself into trying to destroy the ENTIRE world. I’m not saying he couldn’t change *eventually,* but not instantly like this.
That’s the same reason Sans kills you when you spare him in UT Geno, because you are *too far gone.* And he knows you can’t just change instantly like that, not after a mass murder.
This is why the sleep ending with Papyrus worked. It left things open ended for sure, but it did hint that there was something. There was hope that Sans could *eventually* be redeemed.
Flowey always runs when you spare him in UT, because he can’t be redeemed *yet,* but there’s still hope.
The same should be true for GG!Fell Sans. He should *always* pass out, because he cannot instantly see the error of his ways. Not like Asriel, Asgore, Undyne, or most other UT characters could.
Imagine if when you spared Omega Flowey, he just went: “Man, I’m sorry everyone, what have I done! I killed my dad, I’m such a baddie…” and then walked away in Toriel’s arms. 😭
There should still be that lingering hope for future redemption from your talk with Papyrus, but Sans can’t just instantly do a 180. He DEFINITELY can’t do it with *you* there, he despises you.
That final talk with Papyrus, while Sans is asleep is INCREDIBLY well-written, and it’s insane to me that anyone could see *this* as something even close to the same level of quality.
Papy’s speech was a little melodramatic sure, but *this* just sounds like bad fanfiction, and not in the funny way.
*TL;DR, since this is super long and ramble-y:*
Change takes time, and Sans passing out, along with Papyrus’s speech implied all that we needed.
This was an unnecessary change that added nothing and just took away from a really good story moment, to instead have a weird Talk-No-Jutsu character assassination moment.
This sucks. Deltatraveler feels like it can’t decide between being edgy, and being bright. So it just ends up being mid.
Also people need to stop treating the “MERCY” button like it’s an ability on some DBZ Soul Punisher type-shit. It’s really not.
It’s just you putting down your weapon, and walking away. It’s you talking them down, not eliminating the evil in them.
Not even the “SAVE” button in the Asriel fight does that. You *STILL* have to talk him down, and remind the Lost Souls of who they are with *words.*
There’s no instant “madness purification”, despite what GG!Underfell seems to think.
i dont get why people think new ggfell sans killed people. old gg fell DID kill people. thats why the sleep ending worked. but here? he couldn't even bring himself to kill a child and a bunch of teenagers, he tries to, but cant. thats why he can be redeemed
@@overuseanimations4590 He LITERALLY admits to having gained LV during his fight, and you can’t gain that unless you kill monsters. That’s why his attacks do so much damage compared to UT Sans, as well. He also admits to wanting to *DESTROY THE WORLD!?* (Which has children in it???)
Also him saying that he: *”Couldn’t bring himself to kill a child”,* implies that he *COULD* bring himself to kill a regular adult monster/person.
And he was DEFINITELY trying to kill you the whole chapter. The letter full of bones, the Gauntlet of Deadly Terror, the attack in Snowdin Forest, not to mention his *entire* boss fight. None of those were empty threats. He would’ve killed you, if he was able to.
If he genuinely, *“Couldn’t bring himself to kill a child”,* then his fight should reflect that. Like how Toriel’s attacks start to avoid you once you’re at low HP.
*((Also, I think the fact that there IS a “New GG!Fell Sans”, is the problem that most people have. The “new” one just feels like a diet version of the old one. A lot less threatening, just sad, with poorly written dialogue.))*
honestly i dislike the whole "he got a forced redemption". that whole thing is literally him being forced to snap out of it forcing him to reflect on the things he had done. you might as well not be there after you push him even further and make him start breaking down.
he isnt a good person and while this whole thing gives more prespective it doesnt excuse what he did. the whole destroy the world thing seems to be coming from more of a selfish and/or passionate side because of the suffer in the world.
i understand it not perfect but this ending isnt bad honestly. the update caused some unnecesery changes , that i will agree with but the ending itself is more of making him snap out of it , forcing him to face what he did and all its consequences.
its not "oh i suck :(((( but now im good :))))" its him being at his weakest being pushed even further to the point where he breaks down and is forced to face what he did. he doesnt even get up and go "i must be better" the only reason he gets back up an leaves is because papyrus comes to help him. you might as well leave him there to rot or be killed by a random person if papyrus didnt come.
its not even "yipeee everything forgiven" even papyrus still cant forgive sans and as seen by the interaction between susie and noelle so will a lot of others. doesnt mean he cant try to be better with the help of papyrus or anything but some people still wont forgive him.
@@RangerW36 he may have killed SOME monsters, but he didn't exterminate all of monsterkind. sane has spared frisk even if they killed alot of people. same goes here. he is still reedemable. he still didn't extinct all of monsterkind to the point. both version sucks honestly, but old gg fell is just.. cringe.
What made GG-Fell Sans so interesting was how they blended a ruthless killer with Sans traits.
Sans keeps his laziness in the sense that he likes to get things done as fast as possible and as easily as possible. He immediately gives Kris no chance for a fight, instead Papyrus is the one who saves them. He doesn’t like drawing out things too long.
His comedy has been twisted into a cruel form of humor. He finds others agony hysterical and believes himself to be above everybody. He’s given up on Puns for something a truly cruel version of himself would find hilarious.
His companionship is clearly still there as he strives to make Papyrus something he’s not. It’s only when Sans patience dwindles to zero is when he finally tries to kill Papyrus, if we ignore the envelope. ( Although I believe he knew Papyrus would survive, he simply wished to further implement the KILL or BE killed rules into papyrus. )
And his fourth wall breaking remains the same, he continues pulling shit that shouldn’t be possible but now not for demotivating the Human, instead for breaking the rules of his world so he can get a headstart or advantage over them. He would’ve softlocked Kris if not for Papyrus.
What ruined Sans character for me is that they removed these traits by doing this… He was truly evil, a being who could be considered a force of nature in the underground due to how ruthless he was, and yet he suddenly has all of his interesting traits taken away because he felt bad. Sans shouldn’t feel bad, not after GG-Underfell or Deltatraveler, he knows who he is and understands he’s pure evil, and he relishes the feeling of killing innocents. He literally gloats about it.
It’s just a damn shame with what happened, especially since he took all of Nightmare’s cruel acts and simply made them actually Sans like. He was probably my favorite Sans who was actually evil.
Thats basically Killer Sans already.
Literally lot of fans thought GG Fell sans was actually Killer Sans at first.
GG Fell sans literally just Killer sans but in Fell universe
who is nightmare???
@@Yuti640 Nightmare from dreamtale by joku
He just don't keep his lazyness, it's weird to see those dialogues with sans voice
changing a good character concept just because a few people thought it was "too edgy" which caused for even more people hate the new change has to be the most deltatraveler ahh thing of all time😭
They're trying their best
@@End_ProductionsYeah like wtf its a fangame of course its not perfect
and then they proceed to somehow make some random bs so it’s the players fault sans killed an orphan
@DetetivePablo25 of course, criticism is valid as are opinions
I think the change is fine I didn’t like him being evil with no real motive he was just evil for no damn good reason
To the people who say "Well the point of underfell is to redeem people who seem beyond redemption." While you're correct, the issue is how it is written. There's a huge difference between someone like Flowey/Asriel and sans here because there was an actual arc there that wasn't just "I kill children for fun" to "I'm such a bad person and I need to change!". Furthermore, it undermines what this sans stood for, which was the "relentless killer" flowey talks about in UNDERTALE.
TLDR: Writing can make or break a theme or story as a whole.
i understand they wanted a spare ending... but why would they change the dialogues?! "it was the most cathartic kill i've done" was perfect! and "as if she had a familly that cared about her" too! what the hell?!
Maybe they could've had Sans respond irritated a few times, but after enough "talk"s, Papyrus shows up and takes it from there.
I think the whole reason I liked the OG version of this character more was that it really brought the question Flowey asked in the beginning to your face more:
“But what will you do if you meet a relentless killer? You'll die and you'll die and you'll die. Until you tire of trying. What will you do then?”
Even though you can call him rather cartoonish, I liked how utterly despicable he was because it did make you ask yourself *why* you would even spare the skeleton in the first place other than the pacifist quota.
Sometimes, there are just straight up horrendous people out there, or as Asriel put it, Floweys. And they are the ones you can’t just talk things out and expect things to get better. OG GG! Underfell Sans shouldn’t be sympathized with - he should be killed, or at the very least locked away. And I enjoyed how unapologetic that was.
It'd be one thing to imply that Papyrus was able to gradually talk some sense into his brother. But redeeming him all at once?
For [honk]s sake, they had to rewrite the intro just to make it "work!"
@@UlyssesK402 Except thats literally how canonfell works bruh.
Everyone in canonfell "should be killed, or at the very least locked away" as fell flowey tells you cant spare them.
But still, Undefell's quota that every monster can be still redeemable even if they serial murderers already.
Sans in canonfell killed people before as his LV not 1.
Asgore was the one who drugged and killed Chara
and etc.
In undefell, monsters "aint friendly and acting like what an actual monster would be" which you try neutralize them and show that there still other paths like mercy.
To be fair I think most players will still face this dilemma. As far as new players know he really did kill Suzy and he's been trying to kill you and he's killed a lot of others. Imagine the odds of a player randomly checking TALK after that whole fight. So for players without spoilers I think a lot of that energy is still there.
@@HumanOnEarth128 I was that random player in the old version. I was *that* determined to get a peaceful resolution, spare before pacify.
They should've absolutely kept the pre-fight dialogue. It made him stand out as a threat and was the first person you wholeheartedly wanted to kill. The most logical reason I can think for changing it is that they didn't want to play all their cards too early, and want to save the "irredeemable villain" for later on.
However, I think his redemption was handled relatively well. I don't see it as "opening up to his sworn enemies". By tiring himself out, he's no longer focusing on the physical world around him, the terrible world of Underfell, as he doesn't have the strength to after being beaten by the Deltatravelers. Papyrus also says that he's had absolutely no sleep for ages, meaning he probably hasn't had any down time or self reflection. So because there's nothing else he CAN do, he starts thinking to himself. When he's answering Kris's questions, he's not actually answering them as much as having a good hard think about what he's done. He's in no position to keep fighting, so his mind focuses on something else. Why he revealed that he didn't kill Susie, I don't know. Maybe he had the slightest shred of respect for Kris after they beat him to a standstill. But either way, his mind has now snapped to self-reflection. He then starts thinking about what led up to this moment, and then his brother.
And that's what snaps him out of it in the end. His brother, the only person left he still cared about, the one person who could (kind of) keep his murderous behaviour in check. And he realises that Papyrus might now be dead because of him. He doesn't care about revenge anymore. He's overwhelmed with guilt because he failed the last person he cared about. Everything is worthless now, because his brother is gone. and that's enough to snap him out of it. Not talking him out of it. Not repeatedly clicking Spare. Imagine if you were directly responsible for the death of your brother? Even if you think you hate him, deep down, you don't. You love him more than anyone else in the whole world. If anything was going to fix him, it would be Papyrus. And Papyrus did.
Then right when all hope seems lost, Papyrus walks over to Sans. Imagine the relief he must have felt then. And imagine how much it must hurt for your brother is out point out how evil you've become. Wanting to be better for his brother is what drove him back to the straight and narrow.
And what really sells it for me? He never even apologies to Kris, Susie or Noelle. Hell, he doesn't even acknowledge them after he starts his spiel about killing the weak. He's talking to himself there. I believe deep down he still hates them. But in that moment, he had much more important things on his mind.
Or maybe I'm just being a bit silly. Maybe I'm trying a bit to hard to justify my favourite fangame. But hey, someone's gotta do it.
Finally, someone who's got the point
They could have handled it a lot better tho
Yeah, I definitely saw what they goin for, but the way they executed it was kinda bad. They're wasn't any sort build up or hint to him havin any sort or realization, it just kinda happens at the end and it pretty much all starts from him sayin he didn't kill suise, and you kinda already pointed out that as an issue
cook brother cook
@nissan1014
It would've been so much better if they kept the old pre-fight dialogue and at the end he was just like "fine. i didn't kill her, happy?" Then the pre-fight dialogue COULD be seen as being overly edgy to the point of Sans trying to convince himself more than Kris, Susie and Noelle. Putting up a front to make him seem more dangerous than he already appears, and he's dangerous enough already.
I also think of he was a tad more aggressive with the reveal it would have opened up the possibility that he might have lied about sparing Suzy, leaving it up to player interpretation rather than being too on the nose.
He always loved orphans deep down..
First, bro loved orphans all along.
That's kinda sus
true
Ayo?
Bro infact has torn down orphan sweatshops created by the British under queen victorias rule
I was never a fan of GG!fell Sans but I could at least respect it before for committing to the direction.
That line about "what's she gonna do, tell her parents?" is funny though
The joke is literally the ONLY THING they did right in this update
@@umbaianoqualquer2045and the new attacks
This. This is what made GG!Fell Sans work previously. If you're going to write a sadist, [honk]ing *commit* to it! And if you're going to make him relatable, make THAT mild; make it so you can just *barely* relate to this guy. But for crying out loud, *don't* hold back on the sadism!
I think a lot of this discourse is missing the point.
Theese changes were not made because the creator (VylettBunni) wanted to appease haters. First of all her real concern was the this "sans" really acted like Flowey rather than a darker version of himself. Secondly, her vision for GG!Underfell was always to have to have the characters not be the embodiment of evil ,but very desperate and misguided. She's acknowledged that the toriel fight was handled poorly and that she would do it completely differently today. In fact, she is going to reboot GG!Underfell. That is likely the real reason for this new fight ending. She wanted to give cloursure to one of the main characters before saying goodbye to this iteration.
In terms of why Sans opens up to his enemies: He doesn't really have a choice. He's within an inch of his life and he's freaking overwhelmed. His mental defense cannot hold up under the strain and remember that he has to be asked several times before he actually reveals the truth. So under such stress he caves in and under that stress he also finally has a chance to reconsider everything he's done.
Truth be told while you criticize the lack of setup I think the truth is this doesn't really redeem Sans at all. He is still really horrible. But it starts his redemption arc and tho we will never see it I can imagine it's going to be a long and broken road. Even he acknowledges that he doesn't deserve to live after everything ,but in the end he can still find purpose in being there for his brother and trying to undo at least some of the harm he has done.
TLDR: This isn't appeasing haters it's about making the character more in line with the creator's vision and I feel like we should have respect for that.
Thank you so much for that W to you HumanOnEarth
Thank you
Bro Went from GG Fell to Dusttale real quick
exactly. the entire point of deltatraveler is imagining the fun gang in funny locations. they could have doubled down on the edginess and added a couple of jokes about just how edgy, cringy and POINTLESS the entire concept of underfell universe is and also maybe added some events for the story where the fun gang messes with sans (the original ending was kinda just that, fun gang doesnt care about the whole edginess and then sans just turns back into being lazy), or something, but instead they decided to make a child murderer ""relatable"" "because we all do mistakes, right?"
We all make mistakes in the heat of passion, Jimbo.
There’s no sudden change in the Dusttale Au that would make Sans randomly break down and suddenly want to spare the player like in this, atleast not in canon Dusttale.
@@enigmaticencounterlol3277What i meant is that he went from irredimable psycho to tragic "relatable" villian
Suddens change reference@@enigmaticencounterlol3277
The deltatraveler team really fucked up with this one
Isn’t the next DT chapter supposed to be Zelda-based?
They better not mess up *those* characters. Then people will actually get pissed.
They already did before update. The deceitful plot gimmick shit really ruin the whole story when serial killer trying actually murder you but I guess we gotta keep " player bad " agenda going I guess.
Zelda section going to REALLY suck because Ganon minions won't give a flying fuck about your mercy.
@@Roto3 It didnt ruin story tbh, this made gg underfell way better than before as it isnt just fanonfell now
@@Roto3 Thats the entire logic of Underfell.
Every monster in Underfell literally serial killers dude.
Underfell isnt even about being edgy, thats Fanon Underfell.
Canon Underfell switches morals of monsters which makes all monsters act with kill or be killed philosophy and sans in Canonfell has killed people too before. Thats literally why he never closes his eye. If he does he can lower his guard down.
Ya goal in Canonfell is to neutralize monsters and make them realize that way wrong and accept "MERCY", just like what happend in deltatraveler.
We already have enough aus like Murder, Killer, Horror...
Yet flowey even killed "kids" in canon. why everyone ignores that flowey also a child murderer?
@@AntError_exist this is GG!Fell, not the original. Also doesn't changed that Sans murders majority of Snowdin and have an abusive relationship with his brother. Also stop mentioning Flowey, he's a soulless kid that knows he can take his actions away by reset, Sans does not. And unlike him Flowey's change is a slow and gradual process, not a half baked "uwu I'm sorry"
new gg!fell sans : "i sorry for kill you :c"
old gg!fell sans : "I GONA KILL YOU 100 TIEMS"
bro on the update: "i apologize for everything I did, i hope i can be forgiven."
bro BEFORE the update: HAHA F YOU YOUR DOING A F ING ROBLOX OBBY NOW AND I'M GONNA SPAM GASTER BLASTERS JUST SO YOU CAN RAGE QUIT FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@nicolastexeira2732 Yeah way better than old one
@@nicolastexeira2732I prefer the old one way better
@@AntError_existit's not
Honestly i feel like you need MORE than just a half-assed attempt at rewriting a character for no reason. He feels like his dialogue is written Gearbox millenial style. Forced "relatability" for a fucking CHILD MURDERER. People do not relate to murdering children! Making him talk like he killed someone(in minecraft) is so much worse than just letting him talk like he just killed someone.
I mean, Canonically Flowey is much worse that him, And yet, somehow People still Relate to Flowey......
@@darkstar_xd And then there's Homelander. Don't get me started on Homelander.
@@mobileterrarian3653 True, How the FU## PEOPLE EVEN RELATE TO HOMELANDER...........
@@darkstar_xd I know, right? It's crazy.
@@darkstar_xd Flowey,
1: Literally has no soul.
2: Has a change of plans when the Asriel fight starts (originally destroying everything, now he just wants to reset the timeline).
3: Loses his villainous intent when he's reminded of his good times with Chara (and one way or another, Chara *had* to be involved in that moment) whilst having active souls within him.
GG!Fell Sans, on the other hand,
1: Probably has a soul, but is absurdly sadistic anyway.
2: Doesn't change his plans at any point.
3: Was not reminded of any good past.
I think the single best UF!Sans take I've seen is where he fights you because you showcasing MERCY to the Underground disrupts the sort of ringleader role he'd taken up over time, as well as him simply not *trusting* you _because_ of your unending kindness.
"Oh don't say that about Sans, don't you know he's always got an ear out?" and "Trust me dude, you don't wanna be the butt of one of Sans' jokes." type beat. This Sans isn't the type to laugh with you, he's the type to laugh _at_ you, and he'll make sure to make your life hell if you try to break rank. People *fear* UF!Sans. But it's a fragile fear, as he's only got 2 ATK and 2 DEF.
UF!Sans is a _coward_ who bullies everyone around him into submission via his vicious mockery and jokes. So *You* just showing up some day and being *nice* to everyone reaaaally throws a wrench into his plans.
He only FIGHTs you to *prove that there is no truly good person.* To prove you *wrong.* To *force* you to throw a punch. To show that you've been a *fraud* this whole time, and that it's HIS way or the highway.
The sweet touch is that AS he fights you, he's _scared shitless of you._ Because Sans KNOWS you're stronger than he is. He KNOWS your *existence* disrupts his chain of command. And, while he didn't pay much attention while he was in the Lab, he _does_ know that there's next to nothin' that's gonna stop a determined human. But he'll be *damned* if he isn't gonna try.
Hence why his eye flashes Orange. *Bravery.*
It's also just... weird??? You, a total stranger, a HUMAN, falls into the Underground where everyone and their mother's trying to rip you to shreds, and you don't even throw a single punch..? There's something up there.
@@KynG5 what about genocide battle?
Wait what's that version of UF! Sans
@@This_Guy_Exists he says, that GG!Fell is better that UF!Sans, because UF!Sans is too soft to Frisk.
@@Xenodrad5301 That's the funny part. The whole game, Papyrus takes every opportunity to bark at Sans to tie his shoelaces (it's like UF's sock to be picked up)
So when he initiates the Geno battle, he gets his starting attack out... but when it comes time to dodge...
he trips on those damn shoelaces 😭
@@This_Guy_Exists Really niche take on the AU as a whole from some guy in a discord I'm in
Tbh, I must agree on the fact that GG!Fell having a redemption arc here is just extremely out of place
It's not like I'm against the idea of this Sans being redeemable, but DeltaTraveler was the wrong place to do so, it feels moreso forced bc of all the hate he got for being "overly edgy Sans", now he just feels like a sort of Dust Sans minus the whole part of The Player manipulating the world to do eternal genocide routes and Sans suddenly remembering them all, aside, I feel like this changes just drops the idea out of the window that an specific human dod smth to Sans to make him as violent as he is in this AU
"Deltatraveler is the wrong place to do a GG!Underfell Sans redemption arc"
smooch🍝👌
Perfect line
No matter how many times I replay this fight, I will always use Sleep Mist. It’s so much better to leave this open ended.
The ONLY good addition to this fight was Susie actually reacting to sparing GG!Underfell Sans in the Obliteration Route.
However if I could keep both that and the old dialogue, I’d make it so sparing him *wouldn’t* actually abort the route. Keeping him alive would make life in that world so much worse. That’s the whole point of the obliteration route, right? Screwing over entire worlds?
I still think Susie reacting to sparing fell Sans on Obliteration Route feel a little bit out of Character at lest to me
@@cedrolenon I think it works. I mean, I’d be pretty pissed if you just let go the person who killed a child. Not only that, but another version of yourself.
@@SneakTheOcto It's an overreaction to us the viewer cause we know he didn't actually kill her. It feels like Suise's dialouge there was written when that still actually happened.
@@AversionTheUndertaleEnjoyer That is true…
the non stopping killing things have some impact in the characters making them to "draw blood"
if u spare just one enemy, u cannot "draw blood" anymore
so basically u cant kill enemies that can bleed anymore, like the moles, so they just scape instead of diying
this is like watching Disney rewrite a pure evil person, it's just sad to see the old version get tarnished and left behind for no reason
Ironic you say that when old Disney had villains like Frollo and Scar. Villians that are definitely more evil than the current GG! Fell Sans. GG! Fell is someone who is flowey levels of being cartoonishly evil. You can’t just stitch that kind of evil on a character and expect me to take them seriously when it turns out they’re “not that bad”.
@@dennmenn99 Bro entire Underfell logic is that tho. Literally every monster in Underfell are literal serial killers like asgore who drugged and killed chara himself.
In underfell pacifist route your goal is to make monsters realize kill or be killed isnt everything but there other options like mercy too and neutralize them
@@AntError_exist I said that you can’t just STITCH the cartoonishly evil aspect on a character I’m not saying you can’t have it. But it’s not easy to just turn a person around on a dime. A small change in dialogue isn’t going to make a redemption believable.
@@AntError_exist don’t get me wrong I’ll give credit where credit is due. Papyrus not fully forgiving sans is the right call. If Asgore couldn’t be forgiven by toriel for his crimes I think not being fully forgiven by papyrus is acceptable enough.
@@AntError_exist Don't Asgore is the only one really evil?
Yep, I also feel the same way
Gg! Fell Sans was completely butchered narratively in this update. The orphan killer part was acceptable because there was nothing redeemable about him before. But now he became pretty tame, just a murderer Sans of the bunch.
To be fair, maybe a middle point between new and old would've been better. Maybe he still killed Suzy but didn't actually feel catharsis and was faking it. Maybe he opens up to Papyrus rather than to the trio or maybe during the fight it is Susie who makes him realize how he doesn't actually feel that proud of the kill. Although I do apreciate the addition of the jokes. Maybe if he joked more as to tease his "victims" rather than just "haha orphan no fathers" (So when outside QC's house) maybe it would've been a bit better.
that would just make the whole thing worse tbh. it would sound like the game is trying to redeem a child murderer
I agree
They literally did this with asgore undertales whole thing is no one is truly pure evil and I feel like no in the whole comment section gets that
@@clarencewarr3155Except GG fell sans kinda was atleast visually while Asgore was always only evil from description until you saw him personally...
@@skell6134 I mean, Canonfell asgore was the one who killed/drugged chara.
Canonfell sans have more LV than 1 becasue he killed some monsters in past too.
Also what about flowey? he literally slaughtered entire monsterkind in undertale and ther children too.
So hes not a child murderer and can be reedemed just becasue he can "bring" everyone back?
Remember UnderTale implies that "Saving and Loading" doesnt fully makes you escape and there are consequences follows it.
I’m so happy for GG!Fell, he got over his addiction to orphans!
remember the orphans
This attraction is great
So many orphans i can-
***reads script***
oh hell no.
@@AltKaxREAL D:
@@AltKaxREAL"I can't take longer" is that in the script?
Bro went from an orphan killer to misunderstood.we had enough of this in Disney.They did him dirty fr=
The team tried to cook and fucked the whole kitchen up
Let’s take this delicious lobster (GG!fell sans)
And throw it into the burn pile.
WAIT NO GET IT OUT
FUCK ITS RUINED! RUINED!!!
*How will you add the "redeemability?"
>[Fiercely] [Gently]
*You throw the "redeemability" into the pot so hard that you make a dent in it.
Undyne: "Great! Now watch this!"
*Undyne pummels the pot with spears.
*The oven explodes with the force of a 500kg bomb.
*The house is now a smoldering pile of rubble.
*Load back to the last save point?
[Load] [Continue]
@@UlyssesK402 *doesnt load*
@@Windon09 *There's an angry mob outside. They noticed the house detonating.
*What do you do?
>_
deltatraveler in a nutshell
I had made a character a while ago based on gg! Underfell sans (based on how evil he was) so now it’s sad to see my inspiration become “depressed” because of LORE. :(
Sadly I lost the account I had… so…. Hackers did the funni…
I’m still making stuff of it but it’s all private since I think this hacker has beef with me.
“If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.”
give this man a medal
But gg fell sans was broken, he's way too different from sans to be "of an alternate timeline"
@@minestar2247 And that's why people loved him
@@Idkanymore_anything is it the same reason people love murderers?
@@Idkanymore_anything YES, EXACTLY.
I think that the important detail that everyone is missing here is that a redemption arc would've been possible if it was planned from the start. The problem with his redemption is simple. It all happens way too fast and out off nowhere, a problem that couldn't be fixed without editing a large portion of the chapter. The redemption would've either have had to have consumed time developing the next section or had to be minor enough to fit into an update. Now everyone probably wonders "Why even include one at all?" Good question... So anyway they picked the ladder
Personally, I think the ending is fine, it would be better if they didn't strip him from what he was, and like Based said "Opened up to the people that led him down this path." then it'd be better, what I would do is keep him being immoral, don't change him, but for the talk, the first few would be the same, and when he opens up and admits he couldn't kill her, instead of saying what he did, he'd say something like.
"* no, she didn't turn to a pile of dust."
"* she didn't die, i couldn't bring myself to kill her."
"* i couldn't do it, seeing someone die then, even a child, knowing i did it, it'd feel wrong."
"* looking down, it reminded me of what i was doing..."
"* how bad of a person i had become."
"* but now..."
"* i regret not finishing the job there and then."
"* she was weak, pathetic, the fear in her eyes, looking back on it now, i wouldn't hesitate."
"* to see the life drain from her worhtless eyes, the pain and suffering i caused, i loved every second of it."
"* i may be a monster now, but that isn't different from how i started."
"* after all..."
"* it's kill, or be killed!!!"
Followed by the black screen flash, and he's gone.
Or something like that, I'm no writer, and that's kinda how i imagine it'd play out if they didn't ruin how he was, we still have him open up, but he doesn't regret it now, he doesn't feel remorse, he wouldn't hesitate to dust her anymore, and I think that what I've given works better, he's watered down, tired and weak, but despite that he doesn't cave, because YOU as the player want to talk, help him, doesn't mean he's gonna care, and I think using this ending to further enforce the fact he thinks it's kill or be killed, works so much better than what excuse for an ending we did get. OR, this picks up when he says "* i just..."
"* i just could care less."
"* all of you are weak, pathetic."
"* looking at you, it's funny, ironic."
"* despite doing what i did you didn't hurt me."
"* you couldn't even finish the job."
"* but the difference between us is..."
"* i will."
Then you'd get the whole box same size as the soul thing, a large blaster charging up, and before it fires, Susie attacks, or if you have ample TP, uses rude/red buster because that'd be cool, and is the one to end it, cleaving right through his body, and that's that.
bro got the gojo treatment
They gave him the Steven Universe treatment
"Sans, you don't have to be an evil orphan killer!"
Sans: Oh ok
They gave him the Lego movie treatment of anything
Yeah, why do you think the Steven universe and undertale fandom are so close?
@@minestar2247Im Stronger than you
@@Thecreativepainter777 other than that. There is a reason that song was chosen, right?
@@minestar2247because you can go ahead and try and hit him if you’re able.
I feel like the new obliteration version of the pacify is a far better assertion of how a character like this would be snapped out of their ideology.
Him being almost freaked out by your choice to spare him of all people causes him to have a brief moment of lucidity, before reprimanding you for your choice, and choosing to go somewhere else to take a nap.
By encountering someone worse, with a far more messed up worldview of "just to see what happens" it causes him to briefly reflect. That's how stuff like this should be done.
The only way to challenge a character like this is to one-up them, because if they think you're messed up, they clearly know they've crossed a few lines.
Okay now I regret saying GG!Underfell Sans was way too edgy, because now he's way too tame. You're telling me he didn't actually KILL an orphan? That has got to be one of the lamest cop-outs for a rushed redemption arc I have ever seen. Genuinely hope the next section won't be nearly as bad as section 3 or I'm probably gonna just completely drop Deltatraveler
Shouldn’t have complained.
@@JacksonVoet That’s a really dumb sentiment. People should be allowed to make criticism, discouraging that prevents people from improving. Criticism is important, any artist could tell you that that. (Music, Drawing, Writing, Coding, Etc.)
The *problem* is that the DeltaTraveler devs overcorrected, not the people who offered their own complaints.
I personally didn’t think the original GG!Fell Sans was too edgy, I actually loved how edgy he was. But if someone *does* think that, they are 100% within their right to voice that opinion. (As long as they aren’t being an asshole about it)
@@RangerW36 Fair enough. I was just repeating the sentiment of the original commentor. I actually like the change, and I just wish that they used far more drawn out sentences and maybe a few attempts at dunking before his facade breaks fully.
@@JacksonVoet Yeah, I think it *could’ve* been done well if there was more, maybe some hints at his facade cracking earlier in the chapter?
Like maybe when he knocks Papyrus off the cliff, his expression is bit more regretful? Or maybe have that letter full of bones that Insta-kill’s you, be full of *blue* bones, so you don’t die as long as you stand still?
I think there’s a lot of things they could’ve done to make it feel more natural, but with the way it is currently, it honestly just feels rushed to me. Just kind of an unnecessary addition, when what we already had was fine.
And they got rid of, “Most cathartic kill i’ve ever done.” that was an iconic line :(
@@RangerW36 Yeah, and honestly, those touches might be added eventually. The creator is a decent storyteller, and has nailed the Deltarune characters to a T.
Gg uf sans is the first evil sans that wasn't ruined by tumblr.
(Thanks god it's not 2015 anymore)
It's the first time I've seen an evil sans that intimidates so much by doing little (I'm looking at you murder sans).
I'm sad that we're now stuck with this sanitized version :(.
For me, what they could've done is retaining the lines from before, and make him "accept" your mercy to make a sneak attack, only for him to get killed.
Not only shows how far GG!Fell could go for his philosophy but also shows that not everyone can be redeemed in the world, which is something that I feel even OG Undertale forgot about for a second
Hell, Deltarune even establishes that that's what Sleep Mist is even for; you can't spare King, he won't listen to you, so to spare him anyway you beat the hell out of him and then *force him* to stand down.
The Sleep Mist ending was, as far as sparing GG!Underfell Sans goes, literally perfect. Papyrus gets the redemption instead; and he really isn't sure whether Sans will be receptive to it or kill him too, strengthening his character as willing to risk that chance on the idea that his brother loves him too much, and mirroring his scene in Genocide.
@@gremlin2239papyrus is also brave enough to stand up to the human during genocide, even admitting he was kinda afraid when you do spare him. So gg!fell papyrus being willing to redeem himself despite the potential danger of being killed by sans makes this papyrus actually feel like a papyrus.
Would it abort pacifist?
Am I the only one who missed when the underfell cast were presented as pure evil and irredeemable? I mean something we lack in this fanverse is pure evil antagonists.
I’m not a fan of Glitchtale but I can at least respect the series having a pure evil main villain.
I feel you
The original underfell is so much better than this
I mean gg underfell is more like a alternative timeline unlike canon underfell who is a au
Ehhh… I still prefer canon undersell and its themes more. It expands its ideas well and is much more than “undertale but everyone is evil”. It’s a pure concept au but DAMN are the contexts handled well
@@beandaily4074 undersell.Illegal seller sans.sold on ffe and lost souls(if ykyk)
@@beandaily4074 underbuy not undersell
@@vhJONNY1239udBut what about Undertrade??
Bro went from pure evil to womp womp 😭😭
The deltatraveler devs bassically tried to do the same thing with gg!underfell sans as dragonball super did with thier movie villain broly. And i really mean *tried to*
But in dragon ball they changed almost everything about the character
In deltatraveler he's the same character until the ending where it does a 360 out of knowhere
180 actually
Nah, they tried to do what Z did with Vegeta, but they messed it up.
Vegeta’s arc only worked because he never really regretted his actions *(at least not until VERY recently).* He was still a jerk, he just knew he couldn’t beat Goku, so he settled down to train until he could.
Eventually though, he got attached to his family, which is what caused him to stay on Earth, and is eventually the reason he sacrificed himself as Majin Vegeta.
GG!Fell Sans doesn’t get that. There’s no slow burn to his arc. He just loses a fight and then instantly goes, “Oh no, what have I done to my brother!”.
Which is why it doesn’t work. Those kind of story arcs need time.
@@RangerW36 i still find it funny that Vegeta cucked Yamcha
@@RangerW36 i still find it funny that Vegeta cucked Yamcha
Bro went to the biggest menace of Undertale history to the biggest fraud in the space of a few weeks ❗️❗️😭☠️🙏🗣️
But seriously, i think that the old GG!FellSans was perfect. He was really the embodiment of «Everyone can’t be forgiven, so why even bother ?». However, now he is much more like «Oh no, what i have done ? You make me see the light».
The fact that his old self REALLY kill Suzy was really make me love and see him as someone really perverted in a genocide way. And yes, i know that the Mercy Route in general is about either make them what they have done or to just be their normal self or things like that, but the old FellSans fight were able to make us understand that sometimes, There is people that we can’t just… forgive, someone like frieza or cooler from dbz, the old GG!FellSans knows that he’s a mess in his mind and probably knows he can’t be forgiven for what he did and the BEST about his character… he understands and already knows this. He only wanted to take revenge against the humans,but at the end, he will ACTUALLY kill everyone WITHOUT exception that stands on his way including his own brother. Sorry if that a bit harsh, but, i feel a bit disappointed about his new self. The old Fell Sans for me was WAY better.
Sorry for that long ahh text, i just needed to get off that of my chest.
It’s more consistent with the original GG: Underfell. The whole reason the game is like that is because the player downloaded an “evil mode” which altered the characters. Totoro still murdered children while under the influence of that strange corruption, but sparing her snaps her out of it. With Sans, we had to get him to admit that what he was doing was just a flawed attempt at suicide, and that all he did was make the world worse in an attempt to destroy it.
honestly most of what you said isnt taken away from the new version. i understand liking the previous pure evil version but this version is just that but he isnt pure evil and we are given a different prespective of him while still knowing he did terrible things and it doesnt absolve him of those things. a lot of people also just wont forgive him.
again , the only change is that he isnt pure evil and that there is more to it than just "haha murder random people and orphan" while keeping the whole unforgivable thing. (the only in this is a bit of a oversimplification i think but in general this is what changed)
I feel like papyrus should've been the one to make sans talk.
True
He just shouldnt have talked at all :(
The new update ruined many things I liked about deltatraveler bro. A genuine shame they changed gg fell and did him so dirty... Bring old gg fell back
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
among us PFP *proceeds to ignore*
"🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓"-🤓
@@Based_Gal01 undertale character name..
*Remove his rights*
@@TheAmongUsGuy among us name
Comment ignored
I hope VyletBunni sees this video. The original GG!Underfell Sans was so much better.
They messed up,and we know that.
He was menancing because he dont care if semeone begged for his life,he dont was edgy cuz he was a TRUE concept of what a killer is.
And that affects gg!Underfell Au SO MUCH.
Toriel Killed children,and then she waked up,she was in a rage attack cuz Asgore like and what awakened her was a HUMAN what she loved so much makes sense,ALL the monsters are going past it,but then they make THIS SANDS get ok because he almost killed pepeya?BRO ALMOST KILLED A ORPHAN,MASSACRED WHOLE SNOWDIN,CRACKED HIS BROTHER SKULL WITH HIS BARE HANDS and what makes he get off it?His brother!!Makes so sense guys!..Nah they'd failed
i think the main reason that people dislike him now is due to just how unneeded these changes were.
sure, sans being an orphan killer and whatnot isn't exactly the most perfect writing, but the shock factor from him outright saying "yeah i killed an orphan" and following his ideology through is what made him cool. now, with no buildup and these unneccesary changes to dialogue, he's just kinda.. meh. cool fight, but that can be said for most fangames at this point. really worried for not only how deltatraveler's going to go from now on, but gg!fell as a whole.
I liked this character because it was menacing. He was like a serious and emotionless version of Dust Sans. Unlike other sanses he was the one who tried to attack you. And with that spare ending, it feels like he got humiliated. He became another emo sans which we already have a lot. And the reason behind those actions feels so forced. Like "i want to destroy the world so there will be no pain." is a simple and predictable reason.He shouldve been unredeemable. But obliteration spare ending was decent actually.
Obliteration Spare is the *one* thing I'd be willing to hold onto, should GG!Fell Sans get reverted.
In fact, it works better with Old!GG!Fell Sans than New!GG!Fell Sans.
i was hoping to see a irreedeemable uf sans again... Man i miss the simple times
We already like have killer sans as the irredeemable variant sans so ggfell in this could just be rip off of he didn't snapped out the ideology "kill or be killed'
lol you realize og underfell sans was never like that if you look at the og creators facts about them none of them were just wacky killers holy this is the reason why I left this annoying fandom
killer sans, nightmare sans, insanity sans, do i need to mention more?
@clarencewarr3155 then why are you here?
@@overuseanimations4590underfell had his own thing going on, as well as being like the og og AU basically. And he’s way less complicated then “look I’m sans but sludge that was brother to another sans that became pure evil and got a bunch of other sanses that were pure evil (one not even having his au complete) to do whatever since bad emotion = good for me in multiverse timelines and etc etc.” underfell was always more simple and had way more potential, other then horror but sour apple studios basically disappeared, but in 2024 they did make like two posts on devian art about a reboot of horror tale so not all hope is lost.
I feel like they could've made it so where he still said "That was the most cathartic kill i've done" but also have him say "I couldn't watch her die, didn't want too call much attention to myself" so it was still open ended to whether Orphan!Susie died or not.
Looking back at my comment on the last video on GG!fell!sans, well safe to say do NOT let me cook at 6:00 am after staying up all night, while i still do agree that a version of sans that has been affected by GG!fell would not be able to go through with killing Orphan!susie, i feel like they still should've just had the sleep mist ending where sans falls asleep and papyrus comes in and talks to sleeping sans, they definitely should've saved the whole redemption thing for the GG!underfell series, and not deltatraveler
No orphan killer 😭
The problem is that before this point he is basically just Flowey pasted onto the skeleton same ideology and everything "kill or be killed" so without a bigger change from the start of the chapter the redemption falls flat. A character rewrite like this needs more than just additions and slight changes at rhe end
exactly, sans redemption isnt necessarily bad, but the execution was. they needed to give his arc more time. hot take, but i like having him redeemed partially because idk how to feel about pure evil characters (also i just like happy endings)
I remember the time I walked up to William Afton and said "But William, you can still be redeemed! I know you murdered a school bus worth of children for your selfish goals, but deep down you are a good person!" Causing him to instantly cry and then go with me to Disneyland
Honestly Sans Underfell saying "what is she gonna do? tell her parents?" kinda fits. I feel like he would be evil enough to joke about it.
I just remember, that in update, Susie and Noelle now attack Paula, when she have low HP(which very strange). Interesting, do Susie attack Lesser Dog?
man… i guess he really gg!fell off
I used to say: "Sans seems like the type who'd be good at hiding his emotions. Not like the depressed stereotype people make him out to be, but the 'you can never really tell with him', type of guy. Then I learned today they changed everything evil about this Sans. Lets just say I am way more disappointed than I was when I first heard about the redemption ending.
I think it would’ve been better if sans did kill Susie but immensely regretted it but was confused, why he was feeling regret for her, so he kept lying to himself that it was a cathartic kill, however, even if he acted like it, he never believed himself. It isn’t perfect but it makes him still savage and terrifying villain with all his cool lines while still having the talk ending.
I'd like to add a few things, as some one a little more "in the know".
This change was done, not only because people criticized the section for being too edgy, but because Sarah isn't a fan of her old writing, and decided she wants to completely reboot her underfell series, meaning GG!Underfell is essentially dead. Sarah wanted to give it a send-off, which is why she added this ending, but it's also why everything seems so sudden, as while this was the original intention for GG!Sans, all of this was meant to be explored throughout the series, and not offloaded in one 5 minute scene. Sarah decided it was best to do it this way as it didn't feel right just ending it out of the blue, without any kind of closure.
The rewrite was done with the help of Beethovenus, the project lead of TS!Underswap. The intention was to make him seem more like Sans and less like flowey. They intentionally decided to leave the old endings untouched for players who prefer the old version of the character.
I get why people are frustrated, I really do, but we were never seeing GG!Sans again anyways, and I do think it's a decent send off, even if it's an entire game's worth of character work offloaded in 5 minutes.
It is nice Beeth tried to help with this new ending. And help make Sans feel more like Sans. TS!UnderswapSans is one of the best Sanses after all Iimo. And they great takes on other characters and etc. too. ^^
And that Sarah wanted to give some kind closure and better send off to GG!UF.
I also do really like how u tried to make GG!UF Sans feel less like Flowey and more like Sans. I like OG GG!UF Sans, but I do think he could have felt more like Sans. I like the limited amount of time to actually show this new GG UF!Sans made it show him being more like Sans couldn’t be shown to its fullest. Which sadly caused this old GG!Fell Sans new GG!Fell Sans divide with people.
Hopefully the new still hopefully a thing UF series can show their take on UF Sans that feels more like Sans. I feel like there is a lot of ways to do a more dark, antag, etc. Sans and still have feel like Sans, and maybe get redemption down the line. Anyways, also hopefully can see more of other UF characters in Sarah’s possible new UF take?
I’m happy both the old and new ending(s) are still a thing in the new update. I have been mainly watching and reading stuff on DT, like gameplays and this video and their other GG!UF one. And just getting into playing UT/DR fangames again a bit ago. And was gonna do DT soon when I saw all this, and as a Sans fan and Noelle fan )but I saw that Noelle went through some changes too), and someone about to play DT for myself. I was like, oh my what is this. And wondered if I could still play an older pre major character changes and this new one. And it looks like I kinda can?
Except the pre-battle dialogue that is tamer now, apparently. And some others lines of dialogue and stuff, I guess. Which is something, at least.
It’s interesting I saw in the iodate post of the update that did all these new YF Sans changes, among a lot of other stuff. Sarah mentioning a big Sans overhaul they were gonna do in a future update, and I originally thought it was another GG!UF one, but now I wonder if it was for DT Sans instead. Either way I’m curious about it, and hope it will great!
Sorry, that paragraph was kind off topic, but still kind of on-topic.
This post was very interesting. Nice to see and understand more of the intentions behind this stuff. Esp. since it makes feel better about all this, after some of stuff I have seen about this here and elsewhere. So that’s cool.
Sorry this was long. Have a breast day/night!
@@Dragon_Aoi worth noting I don't work on the game, I'm just in the know with people that do.
The Sans overhaul was for GG!Sans, basically revamping the fight and the two new endings, but we are getting Crossbones (in the TS!Underswap section) and an original Sans fight in the future (and potentially a DR/UT sans fight), so there's that.
...I understand now.
Why not just add an option to switch bewteen the old gg!fell sans dialogue and the new one? That would make people happy by having the gg!fell sans we prefer while still having the new dialogue around as an option.
@@dylanzlol7293 that's why they left the sleep mist sparing method in.
I actually really like the new fell sans, not because he was too edgy before but because I feel like it makes the game offer a better version of pacifist. (Also it was possible to get softlocked here before if you didn't have permacicle/ring)
To be fair, it’s been heavily implied that something came over the monsters, so the way you spare them is by making them think about what they’re doing. That’s why sparing toriel works. She brings up the other children, and that makes her realize what she did. Same with sans. He brings up papyrus, mentions him not accepting his philosophy, and then realizes what he’s done. Though I agree the pre-fight dialogue didn’t need to be changed, and their should’ve been more setup. Feel free to point out any flaws in my logic, I’d be happy to engage.
Yknow...
It's ok if the creator of gg!Underfell wants Sans to be redeemable.
But a redemption arc for Sans at the end of session 3 is the wrong place.
I think the old endings already brought so many cool things to this universe. But they literally got deleted completely
Bro really pull an apology video.
they do this to every character to try and make them "relatable" LIKE BRO HE KILLED CHILDREN AND THEN MONOLOGUED ABOUT IT and now suddenly he's ur friend? yea makes alot of sense
Tbh if it's only in deltraveller im ok with it (it still suck) but if it's in the true gg underfell oh boy.
RIP funny orphan killer
You will be missed
Honestly it would've been cool if for the new talk ACT, Sans will ONLY actually talk back to you once, with the same dialogue he actually says in this new update after the first time. If you try to talk to him again, you would simply get a "Sans is ignoring you" response. It would show that, even when they are at your mercy, evil people aren't going to change through one conversation. So your only option to ending the fight peacefully is knocking them out through non-lethal means (Sleep Mist in this case).
Oh well, at least the new abort Obliteration ending was a really good, much-needed addition. It was cool to see Susie actually get angry with you because she should be angry, and also to see that even someone as evil as Sans can be taken aback by your cruelty.
They shouldve shown signs of him changing in a mercy route, some sort of regret, and later on get glimpses of his character getting better over time if we ever meet them again
Idk
I found this channel a few days ago and I am absolutely hooked. I love these videos. I hope you enjoy making them as much as I enjoy watching them
Me and my friend sort of came up with this idea of GG!Underfell Undyne being more of a heroic killer, a lot more agressive but motivated by her will to free monsterkind and destroy humanity, and, in the same way you see sans show up throughout undertale, he would show up throughout underfell to try to kill you multiple times. In this sense, maybe him and Undyne would have a hatred for eachother since Undyne's justice based mindset goes against sans's ruthlessness. Undyne protecting other monsters while sans kills them, so when they clash, Undyne would berate sans about his actions and point how how he's done what the humans did and made life worse for the monsters, that he's just as bad as they are, leading to sans starting to come to the realisation that all he's done is destroy the lives of the people closest to him, coming to ahead in the Final Corridor where he battles you for the final time only to completely break, similar to this scene but without the "uhh yeah i didn't actually kill lol it was just a prank". Instead a real redemption where he acknowledges what he did and the regret he NOW feels that he never felt for his actions before due to being blinded by hatred, the human would then spare him and he would put his belief in them, into the very thing he tried to destory everything for, telling them that he's rooting for them and hopes that somehow they can make the Underground a better place by convincing Asgore to change. The scene mirroring the "Choice" scene in pacifist's final corridor but instead of being revolved around questioning what you'll do, it's more about hoping that you will be able to do the right thing, as you had been doing through the whole journey.
Deltatraveler devs listen more to the haters than the fans, what a shame
She did this because she's rebooting gg!underfell plus she didn't like how egdy she made him
@@danielfazylov6960I feel like a more pure evil villain is funnier then just a redeemable villain, kinda like big jack horner
@@RyanLol-ff5me I mean we already have 2 pure evil villains as is
@@danielfazylov6960 >"she"
i love spreading misinformation on the internet
@@deepfriedantifreeze the developer is a woman
THEY MASSACRED MY BOY
it makes me so mad that they tried to make him "redeemable",even though he tried to KILL YOU AND KILLED OTHERS.
No more cathartic… 😔
He didn't do a single kill that was worse than his other 328 kills guys. He's totally redeemable.
he didnt kill anybody. he legit says he couldn't bring himself to kill a CHILD.
@@overuseanimations4590 Why are y'all trying to downplay his actions so bad? He still killed, he still killed a lot of his own kind. he literally says that in-game... and even if he couldn't bring himself to kill a child, he still almost did so. Stop downplaying his actions.
Well tbf, Undyne and Mettaton tried to actually kill you multiple times, but you end up being cool with them. But still, with his whole personality and all that, yeah he definitely should have not been redeemed that easily.
I just read the long comment about the Pacifist Route in Undertale, and I honestly agree. Sans Underfell could change, but it would defintelly take time, not just random "What have I done?", and you would spare him knowing that he will most likely not change for a long time, not just because you hope that he will change (if you do that is), but also to have the pacifist ending. I'm not sure if I worded my thoughts correctly to be honest, but I THINK I conveyed my point.
I honestly feel like it would fit more into a continuation of his fight like another final attack instead of a different ending. Like him revealing his story but not letting go of his motive and keeps fighting, and thus the only "sparing" ending being the sleep ending. Pretty unneccessary changes to a cool character.
Wait what? They changed it? THEY UNEDGELORDED GG!SANS? Laaaaame! I loved how much of a sick b.strd gg!sans was
I don't think the new ending is that bad but the new pre-battle dialogue is not that good, I honestly prefer the old one. Although the Parents joke was pretty funny.
same honestly
Honestly, I feel it should be more of a personal choice. Some people may prefer the emotional attachment and dialogue that comes with it. It's really just dependant on whatever the consumer wants out if it.
The only thing that came out of this "overhaul" with just actual positive feedbacks is the unique dialogue you get from sparing Fell Sans in the obliteration route.
Heres my hot take: Both character concepts were bad. I think an "Evil" sans would work best as just someone cold and detached. Not sadistic, not "wah wah my brothers dead", just cold and detached from everything. That'd really fit into the "Your choices don't matter" theme of Deltarune pretty well.
Didnt they also add a new ending, where, if you put sans to sleep on the ruthless route, he crities you for letting him live, despite killing countless other monsters? He says that your even worse than he is, walks away and is presumed to have fallen aslepp somewhere of screen.
Honestly I know why they changed it too make it sound less "edgy" but it backfired horribly and made his character less interesting now he feels like an average "bad sans misunderstood" instead of an actual horrible person
"I killed people and tried the same with you but now that we talk I'll make everything okay, ignoring the fact that I'm a potential threat."
I like that there are variants for an ending, but here they are just screwing it up more and more. I'm starting to worry about how the next chapters will go in the future.
Old GG!fell:I am psychotic murderer who has no redemtion whatsoever, I killed an orphan and will kill you!
New gg!fell:I am so sorry I am a bad person please forgive me 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
He went from irredeemable evil to your average Steven Universe villain
I think the reason they did this is that we are in deltatraveler, we go to universe to universe making some kind of change, and maybe thats why of the changes...
I think it will be much better executed in the actual gg!underfell series.
in my opinion, the old GG!UF Sans was the one thing that UT-DR lacked since the 2015. The PURE EVIL character. The ruthless one, who wouldn't stop at anything or anyone just to destroy everything around him. And that is what the old Sans was
I know, we all don't like the "evil for the sake of evil" type of characters, but there ARE people like this, and that's what expands on the UTDR moral dilemma. "Can you show mercy to merciless?", "Can you give hope to hopeless?", "How far would you go in your evil/kind ways just to prove your point?".
When sparing Sans in pacifist route, it really gnaws at you, are you really doing a good thing here? Or maybe you're enabling him in his wake of destruction? To continue this wretched cycle of violence? Or maybe he will change his ways, just this once, with Papyrus' help? Nobody knows
When you spare him in genocide route, seemingly for no reason at all, why did you do it? You've already doomed an entire another world by having Ness and Paula perish at your feet, so why didn't you stop the pure evil? Perhaps, seeing him having an audacity to gloat about killing children made you snap out of your own killing spree?
Killing him in pacifist means that your conviction in universal forgiveness has shattered, as you begin to adapt to this cruel world. "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word", right?
Killing him in genocide, that's your "evil" point being proven even further. Evil makes no difference between who it brings pain to, endless cycle of hurt goes on
Shame that such a multi-faceted encounter has come to "duh lets redeem him right quick in 2 minutes". Slaughter at Snowdin - forget it. Multiple killing attempts at the main crew: vanished. Sans almost knocking Papyrus from the ledge to his doom - "come here bro lets do good together". Such a shame, really
gonna just summarize my thoughts here plain and simple, cuz i'm not gonna repeat what others have said in depth.
If I had to describe this update to DeltaTraveler in one word, it would be "Unnecessary".
The Dialogue Changes for his Pre-Battle and Genocide Death (Not Snowgrave) were just completely unneeded, making him less threatening and already showing signs of undermining what he characterized.
As for the Talk Ending (i REFUSE to call it the pacifist ending because that should be reserved for the Sleep Mist Ending), It was just a completely and utter assassination of both sans' character, and the quality of this chapter.
Before this, I viewed sans similarly to how I view Big Jack Horner from The Last Wish, A Pure evil force of nature that provides both Comedy Gold and Much needed stakes. Instead he's been watered down to just that one annoying kid in your school that nobody talks to.
This also makes me worried about the direction of DeltaTraveler, and more importantly, GG!Underfell.
The latter is because I seriously hope to god they do NOT repeat this in GG!Underfell or else that's gonna be a major turn off for me to continue watching the series, cuz gg!fell sans' character does not deserve to be butchered that hard ever again.
with all the changes they made to make him “redeemable”, they might as well have changed his theme to the hip shop to make him less edgy💀
Saw this update and immediately knew you were gonna talk about it.
also, in the new update, now in the Talk Ending, if you talk to sans in the shop, he says to you that he thought that you would put him to sleep, showing that even sans doenst belief that this monstruous menace can just talk things out
4:41 pisses me off I want my pure evil man back 😭
As much as I don't like the new ending. I must say I really like the new ending where you spare sans during obliteration
Same honestly, it didn’t feel forced and lazy, it was actually good.
Want to make him redeemable?
Sure! But insted of making him less "edgy" maybe add talk option, and overtime maybe slowly realise that people can be good. And at the end, maybe let him talk about his past, and why he belives that.
And have him open up that reason he wanted to get stronger was to protect papyrus, but that that goal got lost when he started enjoying killing. Have him say that he knows he is not redeemable, maybe then have papyrus show up and offer to turn new leaf with sans.
the problem with this is you cant. the character is a diabolical sadistic delusional monster who either just jumps you and then leaves or is just there , before the final fight. he is also not about reasoning , he just hates you and doesnt really care about anything else.
the only thing that makes him snap out of it is when he is at his weakest and when you push him until he just starts breaking down. a lot of these "better ways of doing this" also arent really better. you cant make a diabolical maniac better by making his reason to do this be protecting his brother. sure he might have dont it at first for his brother but so did he do it for a supposed "good" reason in the new version.
also outright stating stuff and spoonfeeding isnt that good. i dont think the guy who breaks down and gives up on life after he fully understand what he did has to go "oh nooooo i suck so bad" for you to understand that he knows he sucks.
this ending itself is pretty flawed with unnecesery changes but good in my opinion. its a character that isnt inheritly bad but did a lot of bad things because of life circumstances and all , that fell into delusion and believed what he was doing was for the better (like a lot of bad people who do bad things out of good intentions) but then be forced to snap out of it at his weakest and be forced to face what he did and fully comprehend it.
i do think the dialogue changes and all that is unnecesery tho.
I really hope RynoGG listens to the fandom and fix the dialogue and ending in a future update
Here is something they could have done to make it be more in character. When they try to spare sans he attempts to lunge at them,Papyrus could have stopped sans when they spare him by surrounding him in a bone cage and sans starts to go crazy repeating “Kill or Be Killed” before suddenly having a momment of realization that he’s feared and no one even wants to see him. He realizes he hasn’t really achieved anything. He doesn’t forgive Susie, Kris or noelle. He makes it clear he despises them and papyrus calms him down and they walk away. Sans clearly still has killing intent. But has calmed down and knows he’s too weak too right. And never had a change of heart. And is cursing you out while walking away cuz funny.
two things i noticed in this update is that first: the swear is . . . gone? idk for the rest of the game but for his battle his swears are gone. For example in the start susie says:"you fucking pyscho!" but now she says something like "you sick psycho!" (something like that)
In the battle, before the update, he says (something like that) in one of the dialogues:"and you are COMPLETELY oblivious of what you have done to me, what a fucking insult" and now he says basicaly the same thing, but not with the swear
the second thing it is in the papyrus uno "fight" because now they added new music from deltatraveler, Papyrus Belief, undertale Yellow,etc, which include some that change the background like Guns Blazing, and which, theres one that is Frankness, that if you activate papyrus goes all out and even changes the sprite to
Edit: when in grillbys after the sans fight, if you talk to one of the dogs, eventally Susie says "could be less cryptic, asshole" so yeah the swear inst exactly gone
Here's my take:
What we had was a good character concept, yes... but it didn't align with an Underfell Sans. What these changes are trying to do is to remember that this character used to be Sans, but they overcorrected it. The arc was too rushed.
I've said this before, but there is a place in DeltaTraveler for a remorseless villain like this formerly non-Sans character used to be. Just not here. I personally would assign this to The Chairman in the Toontown chapter; he's done countless unforgivable destructions and dismemberments to his employees in Corporate Clash alone.
Bro got the disney villain treatment 😭
Also yeah, in the fight ending, Sans was practically the same as Flowey in relishing the fact that you supported the natural way of things, that you’re another cog in this machine that you’ve proven to be true
Og GG!Fell Sans was genuinely the first time in any Undertale fangame where I absolutely hated a character from the moment they were introduced, but that's not a bad thing, it made him unique compared to the myriad of other sans's who are "misunderstood", the fact they changed him to be a "boohoo i didn't really mean it" villain is mildy annoying to say the least.
Suzy still may be dead, tho. He said he left and couldnt kill, BUT, he may hurt her very badly, so little orphan could possibly die from that.
"she's one with the stars now, and you will be too if you don't get your game on, kris."