Same. They're conversational while staying on topic and delivering all the info they need to get in which is harder to pull off than a lot of people think.
One of the things that I think got lost in the comparing Sorc to Bard is that Bard is a ritual caster. The versatility you can get from Comprehend Language, Speak With Animals, Detect Magic, Identify, etc without having to use those precious spell slots is substantial.
I think the phrase "Opportunity Cost" is the best way to describe the issue with paladin multi classes. Yes you could pick Bard but Sorcerer is so much stronger
@@agilemind6241 Also, you can go Paladin/Bard, pick up the Metamagic Adept feat, and be able to eat your cake and have it, too, to an extent. You lose Flexible Casting by going that route and get fewer Sorcery Points, but in return you get a larger hit die, better skill rolls, and Bardic Inspiration. EDIT: I saw another client further elsewhere here that also pointed out that Bard is a Ritual Caster, while Sorcerer is not, so that can narrow the perceived gap even further.
In addition to the other guy's comments on Bard. The fact is, pair any CHA caster with Paladin and it's an S tier combination. They all just work so seamlessly together. I've made builds utilizing all 4 of them that absolutely slap.
And furthermore, bard give you an extra hp per lvl compared to sorcerer, which isn't nothing, and the college of sword is such an amazing subclass for martials just because of defensive flourish.
@@danielbisping1230nice take on that. Though my personal favorite Skald Bard is multiclass Bard/Barbarian. Use perform to start inspiration off via reciting parts of the Edda. Then fly into a totem rage and watch the limbs fly.
@@benthomason3307just take the spells that don’t require spell saves or attack rolls. Things like shield, magic missile, protection from evil and good, alarm, etc. the buff /utility spells. You’re never going to be as good a spell caster as a full caster class so just take things to make life easier for you and your party.
Dipping 3 levels of Eldritch Knight for Absorb Elements and Shield and one extra class level worth of spell progression is a lot less impressive when you can get the exact same thing more quickly and efficiently with a single level of Sorcerer.
If it wasnt a numerical nightmare, a Paladin/Artificer/Bard that focuses Int + Char could make saving throws near impossible to fail with the Aura of Protection, Flash of Genius, Bardic Inspiration combo.
6 7 (best numbers has 5 and chr per short) 18 levels to add maybe 13 to saving throws? (the 13 is assuming max chr, 16 int for +3 and avg roll of d8 for +5) (or +12 at 14th but per long) not too bad
@Teaandephemery I had a concept of a devotion Paladin eloquence bard that proselytizes to the people that he meets. Also, it's kind of unfair that you'll probably have a really ridiculously high bonus to persuasion and deception, which you can never under get under 10 thanks to silver tongue
As a side note for Paladin/Rogue, sneak attack only requires you use a weapon with the finesse feature, it doesn’t require that you use Dex, so you could instead set your Dex at 13, leave it there, and get some minor benefits from having it tied to that and use Strength and Heavy Armor for the build
@@MrSITH-qj6zpgo Swashbuckler and then pick up Booming Blade, maybe with a 1 level dip into Warlock so you can use CHA. Booming Blade/Smite/Sneak Attack, then walk away where they can't get you without activating BB.
@@beantownbanshees smite spells are bonus actions, and can be stacked on top of everything else I mentioned. Beyond that, there's not a lot, so you could dip into Arcane Trickster for something very similar.
The Paladin/Bard or the Fighter/Bard whose has an Axe that is both a weapon and a guitar and whose music is just Sabaton songs. Also, Paladin/Barbarian isn't the Punisher, they're the Doomslayer. Paladin/Bard: Savage! Paladin/Sorcerer: Sick Skills!! Paladin/Warlock: Smokin' Sexy Style!!!
Something I think gets overlooked regarding the Warlock is just how much synergy the Paladin and Celestial Warlock have with each other; you're getting all of that Cleric stuff as a Warlock, which means you don't have to worry about stretching out your stats, and you also get a whole lot of extra healing, including a Warlock ability akin to the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability, an additional pool of non-spell healing is something that is overlooked in Warlock build when it is discussed here. Maybe when the Warlock multiclassing video rolls around, Monty and Kelly can talk about how well the Celestial Warlock plays with Clerics and Paladins, and they can also discuss how well Archfey really plays with Druid and Ranger, along with the other subclasses that seem to play well with specific builds and the like.
Celestial warlock is incrediblely underrated. It effectively adds a first lv spell slot to cast healing word every level as well as invocations. It's a great choice for almost any multiclass especially melee attackers who don't want to use CHA on attack rolls.
I made a paladin/warlock and refused to do hexblade cause I wanted to be special. I did oath of conquest/undead patron. I feared on hit and any enemy feared near me had 0 movement. I was also a bugbear so I attacked from 10ft away. It was such a fun build lol
Paladin/Bard-> Pro Wrestler. I love the thought of smiting with a steel chair, and using your mic skills for Bardic Inspiration and either inspiring leader if you're a babyface, or cutting words and vicious mockery if you're a heel! 😂😂😂
I think the multiclass dip for Wizard is for 2 lvls in War Magic. Adding +4 as a reaction to your saving throws, on top of +5 from your Aura of Protection, is REALLY strong. Stack on the 2d4 from 1 lvl in Divine Soul, plus Bless, plus 1 lvl in Peace cleric, plus Autognome... means you can build a crazy multi-classed character where failing a saving throw is basically mathematically impossible.
Another great example of a paladin/bard might be Gurney Halleck from Frank Herbert's Dune. Side note: I hope we get to see the cut content of Josh Brolin playing the baliset in the 2nd film. But going back to the character as a whole. He is a deeply religious man often, reciting scripture in the books and movies, which gives you a paladin flavor. But he also has strong elements of devotion to his house and is a master tactician and student of war. He also inspires the soldiers of house of Atriedes throughout the series and trains Paul in the art of combat and political maneuvers.
I believe he himself has stated that he wanted a baliset scene but I could have just made that up. Personally I think gurney halleck would be fighter/bard, but his devotion is 1000% Nvm yeah I forgot about how often he quotes from the orange Bible
@@Crowsinger In the original book he often quotes segments of the Orange Catholic Bible, the religious text that was an amalgamation of multiple religious texts in what we call the modern day of humanity. This text was a major factor for a lot of the political factions in Dune and varied across the imperium as the bene gesserit seeded multiple worlds with messianic prophecies to further their agenda of social control.
@@_emory I think it can swing either way but the devotion factor to house Atredies and the vengefulness he shows towards house Harkonnen for the time he spent in the slave fighting pits could take it in either direction subclass wise. He also develops some roguish factors in his time with the spice smugglers after the assault on Arrakeen and the death of Duke Leto.
Been listening to you guys for over a year, and I love your content… especially these videos. BUT DAMN!!! It’d be nice if Monty let Kelly finish a thought, or his own jokes without interrupting or stealing his thunder.
One slight protest with Wizard... War Magic. Take aura of protection and arcane deflection and you have got a saving throw making machine with shield, absorb elements, find familiar, etc.
Thematically, my favorite is paladin/warlock because of the dichotomy of having a deep evil inside you that you're desperately trying to suppress with willpower and discipline.
I am currently playing an Archfey Warlock/Oath of the Ancient Paladins. Started as a Paladin and the RP is that my deep devotion to nature is how I encountered an Archfey with the same goal.
While Divine Soul is definitely the obvious choice for a Soradin I’d like to point out Clockwork Soul may be as good. You might not get Spirit Guardians but you can trade Alarm for Armor of Agathys which is incredible and thematically it works as a Paladin can view there duty is to bring Order so having a connection to a realm of Order works really well.
@@ricardorodriguez-ll1iv But not nearly enough spell levels/slots to use to the fullest. And if I'm grabbing a domain spell on Pally I'm taking Oath of the Crown for Spirit Guardians.
6 levels of Aberrant Mind Sorcerer gets you Psionic Sorcery, letting you potentially cast something completely undetected, provided its on your psionic spells list(which you can customize), and you use sorcery points at a 1:1 to spell level to cast it. Only question is what order goes with aberrant mind's Cthulu-esque approach? Watchers? Devotion? An interesting take on Ancients?
Honestly, it's hard to say there are any bad options for Sorcadins. They Two classes blend perfectly well enough just with CHA base, Metamagic, AoP, and Smites alone that the subclasses really don't matter that much. There's a few obvious non-bos like Draconic Sorcerer, but even then it's still hard to go wrong.
Just wanted to point out that a palabarb can also go for a more introspective build with oath of the Ancients and totem warrior or storm herald - haven't done any number crunching but I like the way the rage auras stack with the paladin auras.
It's not just hexblade. Undead warlock is also S tier. Any warlock subclass can take EB+AB to let you fight from range and prioritise CHA at the same time, allowing you to get the absolute most out of your aura of protection by maximising the bonus and staying close to the vulnerable members of the party. Any warlock subclass can take RB on top of that to keep enemies away at the same time. But only Undead can do all that while also sprinkling the Frightened condition in there to keep enemies away even better.
@TerraDoctor Which means more slots to spellcast. Smite's overrated anyway, and you're technically getting free damage by playing at range because you take less damage at range. This means your damage trades are worth more. Smite is still there to rely on if you want that damage immediately to take out a high-priority target like spellcasters, but now it's more of a backpocket thing, which tbh it sort of has always been.
I've been OBSESSING over a dexadin with 3 levels into swashbuckler rogue for months now, glad to see it was appreciated here. For paladin I'd definitely go either vengeance or glory. Vengeance to mark your target with advantage, or glory if you want to be an athletic threat using expertise from rogue mixed the advantage you can get from the glory channel divinity. Mixed together you can be a formidable grappler with a relatively low Str score, so you still take advantage the strength you have from multiclassing out of pally
Palidin barbarian is Mace windu. Vaapad his signature fighting style dips into the dark side of the force (rage and reckless attack) while maintaining peace with the light (divine smite)
I’m realizing with the Paladin/Divine Sorcerer combo presented not only would you have access to Quickened Spell spirit guardians, but a Quickened Haste too. One great spell for crowd control, and the other to better focus in your damage on a big boss And for every other sorcerer option a Paladin throwing out a Quickened Fireball is just very funny to me
I love how they bring up expertise here with the Bard. Yes the sorcerer does more damage but the Bard has great out of combat utility with that and jack of all trades. Bardic inspiration with a creation Bard or lore Bard also are great fits for the paladin depending how you want to focus on support
Bretons were one of my fav armies in fantasy! Every miniature’s beautiful. A paladin bard is a combination I rolled once as a zealot who preached during combat (very warhammerish) being a bard dedicated to poems
I think the one option of a cleric dip that the Paladin really loves is the War Domain. A few extra bonus action attacks, and a +10 to your attacks when you role bad, really helps you to throw even more burst damage when its really needed.
My dhampir Divine Soul Sorcadin is probably my favorite character of all time. My DM allowed me to use your Homebrew Expanded Spell list, so for the domain I chose the Twilight cleric's expanded spell list. I replaced a few spells from the expanded spell list to get Guiding Bolt (because of twin guiding bolts), Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. 🤟😤
I used to play Bretonnia as well, that super cool! I've been looking forward to this video since you started the series... I'll admit I'm a little biased here with the Fighter/Pally because I was brand new at table starting off as a Fighter and I ended up getting along really well with the party's Cleric. So my character multied into Paladin as a sort of show of kinship with them, and it was just such a good feeling to play
i think for Paladin/Druid you all missed that a druid can give a huge boost too the gameplay that most paladins suffer at which is stealth. Imagine being in full plate and the party wants too sneak past the guards well as a druid multiclass you could just go beast and sneak by as a little spider. Party really happy with you.
Personally, in 5th Edition, I've played a multi-classed Warlock/Paladin and a gestalt-build Paladin/Sorcerer. And the only thing that ever brought me down about playing them were the disastrous campaigns they were a part of. That I can look on them somewhat fondly despite those traumas is a testament to how truly powerful said combinations are!
For paladin I had created one of the most ridiculous Lore Vengeance Pallibard. This build gave me access to a reaction with cutting words and I could just wreck monster attacks. The magical secrets allowed my to take Spirit Guardians and counterspell.
An interesting idea that is probably only for short adventures or one shots is a high-level oathbreaker/necromancer. Summon undead, and give them a power up.
Half elf Swashbuckler Paladin really addresses those characterstic needs. And add some Elven Accuracy later on. Which really increases those crit chances for the Nova sneak attack smite.
@@thetruegavinator It could help. half elf makes stats 13 STR, 14 Dex, 14 CON, 17 CHA. 1 Hexblade, then six straight into paladin, grab elven accuracy along the way then 3 for swashbuckler. probably go 4 levels swashbuckler to get to 20 CHA by level 11. if it's a campaign going beyond 12, to 20 or so, I'd consider it, especially if the game started in the mid-levels. For a game stopping in levels 10-12, probably would just do Sorcadin
I watch your videos on occasion, this episode has inspired a character (paladin bard) who wants to be a town mayor, and is using his adventuring prowess to get more experience, garner more support.
Did you know, that in the description for the Barbarian, nowhere does it say that you cannot rage in heavy armour. The rules say you cannot gain the benefits of rage, not that you can't rage. The famous Bear Totem Barbarian feature, doesn't ever reference heavy armour, and only says "while raging". This means you could be a smiting, raging, heavy armour weilding herald of death, who is resistant to all damage except psychic. As a long time DnD, and Paladin player, I have just discovered this, and it has blown my mind
My current character is a Barbarian 2/ Paladin of Conquest 3, and he is just stupidly strong. The whole concept was that perfect fantasy Viking blessed by the gods. He rolls with no armor, and a great axe. We roll our stats, and with Aasimar bonuses, he ended up pretty stacked early for all 4 of the necessary stats
One thing I think didn't get enough attention in this video is that Paladin is one of the least bonus-action-hungry classes in the game. To that point, I think you've somewhat undervalued a Druid dip on a Paladin. Spores could be nice for damage; Moon Druid provides a really nice source of tankiness; and Wildfire could be absolutely incredible for battlefield control using Fiery Teleportation to maneuver allies out of harm's way. Heck, Spirit Totem or Dreams would add some nice healing options to support the party in addition to the Pally Aura.
I played a lawful good paladin/bard 6/5 in a oneshot and role played him as everyone’s dad, aura of protection and bardic inspiration were a powerful combo. Had a blast!
Maybe bladesinger with metamagic adept for quicken? Quickened greenflame blade + extra attack where one of those is another greenflame blade, and of course smite when possible. Not great for extended battles, but an option why someone might choose that over sorcerer.
More like you like to frustrate your enemies by boosting your AC, saves, AND initiative by picking two levels of war wizard in addition to aura of protection. That is really all you need from the wizard. The ful-caster spellslot-progresson is but a nifty bonus
did a little theorycrafting on the artificer/paladin. It's completely MAD, way worse than the paladin is normally, but you can get around it. Taking high half-elf as a race gives you +2 to charisma and +1 to two bonus stats, helping you reach the 13 strength, intelligence, and charisma you need to make it happen. With point buy I was able to get 13str/8dex/14con/16int/8wis/16cha. Why do this? Because battle master is great sure, but there's also a lot to be said for armorer artificer. Armorer guardian is already a great defender build and thunder gauntlets are a good way to keep enemies engaged with you. Plus you're able to stack divine smite or potentially booming blade on top of them, and they work with two weapon fighting, so you can also use your bonus action to attack on top of the extra attack paladin or artificer give you. This gives you a high amount of damage + high amount of defense and stickiness. Plus, like you guys said, it just sounds cool.
The archer though gives a nice range bonus action attack even with a plus one wisdom mod you can do up to 9 damage as a bonus action not the strongest but it might let you hit a second target in a turn which works well if you kill your target in melee
Paladin/Rogue multi can also be really good with assassin. Just take 3 levels for your advantage and auto crit on your surprise attack and get free crit smites to start most combats!
Once you get through these ,it would be cool to have a wuick look at the ones that get dropped immediately because of ability scores. Say a guaranteed start 15 to 17 on each of the ability scores needed, then see how it works with the features
I keep saying that you can make a paladin/ monk work. You need to use point buy to get five 13s and a 10, and then use PHB human to raise all stats by a +1. Now you have 14s in everything, and all of your abilities work okay.
@@carsonrush3352 14s in everything is.... terrible. "all of your abilities work okay" is basically saying "solid "C-". Nobody wants to play a C-, especially as a paladin, which baselines as S tier.
I am currently playing a Sapphire Gemstone Dragonborn Pally( has since gone Oathbreaker with the multiclass) Hexblade with Polearm master. He's a meatgrinding MONSTER with lots of social abilities. He's by far my favorite character I've ever played.
My newest character is very similar. He’s a Scourge Aasimar Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade warlock who wields a blessed Glaive and I do plan on taking Polearm Master as soon as I can
Paladin with 2 levels of war magic wizard is a pretty decent build. Arcane Deflection giving you a +2 to AC when hit or a +4 to Saving Throws on command is not to be ignored when combined with a paladins aura. This reaction limits you from casting spells but doesn't prevent you from still smiting and using booming blade. Of course you also speed up your spell casting progression, and get ritual casting.
Chronurgy 1 for Chronal Shift, Temporal Awareness, and Gift of Alacrity (as well as common standouts in Shield, Absorb Elements and/or Silvery Barbs) also works pretty well. High Initiative all the time and crit immunity twice for two attacks/LR partywide is very desirable for any class.
@@RJWhitmoreWould need to be 2 levels cause you don’t get your subclass on wizard until 2nd level, but otherwise yeah, good points. Personally I think the initiative boost is actually one of the stronger points, given Dex is often a dump stat for paladins.
@@Lightfire398 True, was going from the other direction as a Chronurgy Wizard taking a level 1 Peace Cleric dip and forgot the subclass wasn't level 1 for Wizard in turn. Yeah, Initiative is essentially like getting a free turn since combat ends on your turn eventually, unless you lose. In a game where combat is often two or three rounds it is big. Saying nothing of the practicality of being able to cast control spells and aoe before any mixing of sides can occur.
Paladin / Whisper-Bard. Is insane. You can Smite and Psychic Blades on each of your Attacks… imagine wielding a Glaive and PAW… 3 Attacks… possible 3 Smites and 3 Psychic Blades (which comes back at Short Rest) for exorbitant damage… 🙈❤️
Also, an oathbreaker paladin/necromancy wizard is really strong, +5 to all your damage and +5 to all your undead summons, lets say your paladin 12/wizard 8, you summon like 5 undead, you personally are dealing 5d8 dmg with divine smite, + 1d8 + 1d8 cause of improved divine smite + 5 with your sword, + 30 with you and your 5 zombies with aura of hate, then your zombies attack damage, lets say 1d8 + 2, thats 7d8 + 37, in one attack each all added up, now with extra attack you deal an extra 2d8 + 10, for a total of 9d8 + 47 or a max of 119 in one round, ny maths might be wrong or missing something, but it's still a pretty good combo that i feel like you missed in the vid, edit: they also add a +6 to damage rolls, for an extra 30 damage, so 149 damage in one turn
One of my players is playing a Fighter Champ 3/Wolf Barb 3/Vengeance Paladin 9. His single turn damage record is over 200, and he seems to be having fun with it.
I played through the entire Hoard the Dragon Queen and the Rise of Tiamat (+extended homebrew campaign as we lost the final fight as lvl 15) over almost 3 years. I ended up being a Silver Dragonborn Fighter Battlemaster lvl 11 and Vengeance Paladin lvl 9. The burst damage in the end was absurd - I believe I did 113 dam with one crit and did more than 350 damage in one round with 7 attacks from my +3 Vorpal Glaive against Tiamat. Fun fun fun!
Undead Warlock 4 / Conquest Paladin 7 is one of those multiclasses that finally made me excited for something that wasn’t Hexblade. That Form of Dread combined with the lockdown Aura of Conquest… so nasty
It's funny your first instinct was the Punisher. I am currently playing Kip, a Shifter Barbarian-Paladin in a hembrew campaing and she's literally the nicest soul - instantly makes friends with every. Single. NPC. Much to my DMs delight since he puts a lot of work into his NPCs. Thematically I went with a chaos vs. order theme. I started with a path of the Wild Soul Barbarian (I liked the chaos of it) but realising she might harm her friends she is looking to control her powers which led her on the path of Oath of the Ancients Paladin. I only realised the chaos vs. order theme as I started playing so now I have a set of order dice (for choices where I am level headed) and a set of chaos dice (for choices where I lean towards being emotional). I have also decided to chose levels based on the choices I have made since last leveling: more rational choices=Paladin, more chaotic choices=Barbarian. Don't get me wrong, she's the possibly worst mechanical built ever - I couldn't have built her to be less effective if I had tried to but thematically and personality wise she's the most detailed and most fun character I've ever played and a completely different archetype from what your first insticts were
Sorry for commenting a second time but just got to the sorcerer and it reminded me of the time I got to play a 20th level character. She was a protector aasimar with 6 Oath of Devotion/Champion Fighter 4/Divine Soul 10. That was disgusting. Now we rolled stats so I got lucky and could start with 16 in strength and Charisma. Which pushed the build but I ended up with 20 in Both and GWM. So with channel divinity the GWM - 5 was just canceled out. I went crit fishing and boy did I catch a big one. I had every thing going, Aasimar Aura, Holy Weapon, Channel Divinity and quickened booming blade as my first attack and I crited.... So.... Many... Dice.....
Not complaining, Just sharing another perspective: A paladin bard isnt just a charming and boastfull comedy relief, keep in mind that the essense of a bard is to inspire, perform and tell stories. Pair it with zeal Born out of fiery conviction and you get a natural leader, someone whose each chant is a reality bending rally cry, whose each strike is a work of art in the name of their beliefs and whose Magic manifest throug the weaponization of sheer emotional intent and awe. If fighting against a wizard is like fighting against reality itself bent acording to their will, fighting against a bard feels like youre fighting against the narrative itself! Youre doomed to fail not bc youre weaker then them, but rather bc of narrative causality
Never even considered a paladin barb or paladin bard until now. Now I'm thinking of a hexblade paladin bard gnome telling anyone that can hear of his amazing battles
Ancients Paladruid gets you even tankyer, allows you to take thornwhip, and makes the most versatile class even more versatile with wild shape. Just take two levels of druid and the rest as paladin. Plus it has great rp elements w/ ancients.
Respeccd Wyll to Paladin/warlock to role play him starting as honorable paladin and then going past of the blade specifically to be stronger. Charisma for melee, magic, saves, and dialogue holy shit. And extra recharging smite slots woo. Start paladin for heavy armor and then get defense fighting style and dual wielding so I can use pact weapon smites and staff fireballs with multi attacks and 22AC before spells, plus repelling eldritch blast for testing fools on ledges. Was so fire 😭
An Oath of Glory Paladin/Barbarian for the ultimate Athlete (plus it’s Channel Divinity giving temp HP to itself pairs amazingly with Rage). Or an Oath of Redemption Paladin/Barbarian would be interesting internal struggle, and it makes a great Tank.
If you do oath of glory/beast barbarian and pick up skill expert for athletics you could get a potential high jump of 50 feet at level 9 when it comes online
@@Marb315 who the hell is jumping in combat? not to mention 5d6 bludgeoning (likely halved if raging) when you fall also glory gets the feature at 7th and for 9th level its only 2 barb so no beast (and it's still only 40 ft until barb 5 which is level 12, but factoring in bestial soul would be level 13)
Rogue 3 going assassin with poison the rest of the way with paladin. Biggest possible 1 hit dmg? Surprise sneak attack with a smite using a poison coated weapon 💪😆 Also like the idea of using a whip with this build for a slight ranged smite ✨ Studded leather so you aren't clunky loud. Rapier using dex for attack. Thinking about RP it's something like a Trevor Belmont from the Castlevania anime 🏰
I think the armorer artificer with the guardian model would go well here. You can use strength and smite with the fist weapons while giving out disadvantage.
I play a Paladin/Warlock on a twitch stream game (Quill and Sword) and she's a lot of fun. Oath of Vengeance + Hexblade = Sad goth girl with a big sword. Last session I messed up my DMs plans without even swinging my blade. He did not expect me to cast Fly and Counterspell. Its a great combo.
9:03 Hear me out: Half-orc oath of conquest paladin, bear totem barbarian (3) and champion fighter (3). You have the following defensive features: Relentless Endurance, Medium Armor and Shield Proficiency, Totem Spirit: Bear, Aura of Protection, Lay on Hands, Second Wind As well as the following offensive features: Longsword Proficiency, Savage Attacks, Action Surge, Extra Attack, Improved Critical, Rage, Reckless Attack, Channel Divinity: Guided Strike, Divine Smite, at higher levels Improved Divine Smite, Fighting Styles Tunnel Fighter and Superior Technique: Riposte. You are both unkillable and hit like an absolute truck.
Bonus if warlock blade pact, eldritch smite. You can throw it on the same hit as divine smite. Get that crit? 16d8 baby for 2 3rd lvl spellslots, plus your weapon damage.
2 levels for war wizard's arcane deflection. (+2 AC/+4to saves) With 5 in charisma you can push your saving throw to +9, you also get a +2 AC. Once you got your concentration spell up (bless whatever) your talking about +11.5 to saving throws and a 23 AC (with defense fighting style and full plate armor and shield). All by level 8. Sneak in 2 level of hexblade to become more SAD and you have a long range viable tanky pally at level 10 (when most campaigns end)
I think the big factor for staying single class with the paladin is extending the range of their aura of protection to 30ft and their capstone. A lot of the paladin capstones are incredibly strong and worth the wait, even if most campaigns aren't going to get to them.
It doesn't compare to the Hexblade, but Celestial Warlock does pair quite well with Paladin. With healing light on top of lay on hands, it makes you a very viable primary healer without costing you any attacks, radiant soul adds some damage, Guiding Bolt and Sacred Flame on top of Eldritch Blast gives you multiple reliable options at range, and Flaming Sphere very quickly provides a useful way of dealing damage with your bonus action.
Paladin has so many S ranks because it blends so well with Cha classes as well as Str classes. It's the all arounder class so it's highlighting one aspect of the class either spellcasting or big hits
Most damage I've ever done, or even seen, in one turn was 285 as a Hexblade 9/Vengeance Paladin 6 against an ancient green dragon. I land a crit with the Hand of Vecna(+2d8) wielding Axe of the Dwarven Lords(1d10 + 4d10) unleashing lvl5 Arcane Smite (+6d8) and lvl5 Divine Smite (+5d8). That's 10d10 + 26d8 + 24. Second attack, crit again, no lvl 5 slots, so this one is 10d10 + 16d8 + 24. Total was a little below the average, but 285 was enough to put the dragon down.
I can't help but think you are undercutting Pact of the Tome: Shillelagh, It's Hexblade for other pacts. With Genie it's concentration free flight on a smite build or what Monk should have been and was in other versions. I know, I've run it. Undead+Conquest or Dao+Ancients both provide thematic and powerful multis that exceed Bard and probably do better than most sorcs. Hexblade just gets double smite (Eldritch+Divine) over Tome, and only if they go Blade. And Shield I will give you that. Once you start factoring in Channel Divinity, Warlock's short rest factor really does close the gap with Sorc. Bard is a somewhat distant Forth vs pure Paladin. Ironically Lore is probably better here than Swords since the Flourishes just won't match up with the Extra Magic Secrets and Cutting Words.
Favourite character I've ever played was a Paladin/Bard - rolled stats and three of them came up negative, but it didn't matter. Desparately want to play him again, campaign ended way too soon.
Paladins are only strong due to one single feature: Aura of Protection. Having a potential +5 to ALL saves for multiple players is bonkers - made even better by the fact that due to dump stats and no proficiency someone could be going from an easy -1 to a +4. It is almost sacrilege to not have a Paladin buff the party in this way. THAT said, it is not guaranteed. A Paladin who chooses to focus on Str or Dex (and likely Con) over Cha will not be doing this. Furthermore, a melee Paladin (which is really the only possibility if staying straight-class due to losing Smite and having no ranged boosts) in a party of ranged characters (so basically, no Barbarian or an odd melee Fighter/Rogue choice) can not be effective a lot of the time while still providing that buff due to the 10ft radius. So the only way this really works out is either the Paladin is in a largely melee party (honestly, a single ranged can be problematic here if the DM is happy to target them, since they wont be in the aura usually) OR the Paladin takes two levels of Warlock for Repelling Agonising Eldritch Blast and joins the largely ranged party. If the party is a mix (say a 5man party; 2 melee, 2 ranged, and the Paladin) this can be really tough with an opportunistic DM unless the ranged forgo being ranged and stick close to melee (which can be done with dipping for armour). Wait, but what about Smite, isn't that the GOAT? Nah, its pretty dire for Spell Slot usage. A ranged Fighter will outdamage a Smiting Paladin hands-down, except potentially in nova situations IF everything aligns just so (crit every attack, Smite). The only reason Paladin uses Smite at all is because they lack good Spells - in fact, the Spell choice is so bad that the level 1 Bless is one of their best Spells and should be up whenever possible. If you get good Spells (some subclasses, like Crown for Spiritual Guardians, and of course multiclassing) say goodbye to Smite except the occasionally level 1 Spell Slot on a crit against a fiend/undead. Check out: nystulsmagicwebsite.wordpress.com/2022/04/04/paladins-as-intended-dont-work/ Wait, but the AC! Well, if without a shield and Shield it isn't much to write home about. A Wizard with a single one level Cleric/Artificer dip will outperform here. Furthemore, NOT going into melee does wonder for your health - which is kind of problematic for a straight-classed Paladin. Conclusion? Go Paladin up to 6/7 (subclass dependent). Then grab two levels of Warlock. Then go Sorcerer. Check out: tabletopbuilds.com/flagship-build-oath-of-the-watchers-paladin/ Is this a Paladin Multiclass? Eh... kind of? Up to like level 16 it is as much Paladin as anything else, and how many campaigns go even that far?
Ok, I think RAW you're right about Ranger. But if you remove the multiclass restrictions, it actually looks very nice and it still makes a lot of sense. Mind you I'm actually talking about the inverse (a Ranger dipping into Paladin). A Ranger that doesn't use Dex makes sense to forget that score when multiclassing. And if you're not using Paladin spells with attack rolls or DCs, why should you need to restrict yourself when there's a really cool build option on the line? Then what you can have is a Strength based Drakewarden/Paladin flying around on a dragon smiting people with a giant glaive. Tell me that is not the ultimate fantasy.
Just started playing a paladin 2/ barbarian 1 gonna multiclass into fighter, the course I'm going with is paladin oath of redemption 7/ barbarian ancestral guardian 3/ fighter battle master 3 and its a ultimate defense build, also took kender for race for that extra taunt, took interception, gonna take shield master and sentinal and it will be an insane tank build I have about 3-5 ways to make enemies atk me, great damge, and an increadible front liner
May I ask a question, were you to do a paladin sorceror should you start off as the sorceror and then switch to paladin or flip it around? Same question but with paladin bard combo? Thank you, DDs and I would like your thoughts on the following: I am a returning D&D player (last played in the late 1980s/early 1990s) and was wondering do you just allow multi-classing automatically or do you like to roll in a switch in class with a storyline, as in a sorceror who meets a paladin who offers to train him or her in the ways of paladinhood? I'm asking as I am working on a book that I have dabbled in converting to a D&D campaign.
You missed the Commander. Just a dip into Collage of Elequence. This is the Paladin who leads an Army, or is the Captian of a Ship. ( MC with Oath of the Open Sea ). First 8 levels in any Paladin, then dip 3 levels into collage of Elequence. the rest is up to you. And you will lead an Army of devoted followers. Start a Rebelion, or a Coup. Oath of the Watchers would make a great pairing also.
3 level dip in Artificer is good to be the Tank. Artillerist you can get temp Hp every turn. Armorer is good to make the enemies target you instead of the team.
Monty... You're great and even if you're really excited about what you want to say, please stop interrupting Kelly. It's something I've noticed you do with intermittent regularity but in this episode it's particularly bad. Love your show guys, it's been my favorite D&D channel for years.
"When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls." You could in theory use your str as a rogue, and only have a 13 in dex.
It's definitely not better than the CHA casters, but Wizard is still really good just because it is the strongest class in DnD. If nothing else, it offers subclasses with features the CHA casters can't do. Most of the time definitely go for Hexadin & Sorcadin, but if you roll insane stats give a Bladesinger or Chronurgist Paladin combo a try.
For a later build in palabard by level 8, just 2 levels in paladin and the rest in sword or valor bard, you pretty much get everything except for auras, with extra attack and full level casting, and if you really want to get spicy you can add a 3 level dip for sorcerer in the combo as well for quicken spell. Can hold enemies with your bonus action and smite with your main action.
Gods this really is one of my comfort channels
I agree
Big mood, smashed that bell icon real quick
Same. They're conversational while staying on topic and delivering all the info they need to get in which is harder to pull off than a lot of people think.
Same, been following for years, never had friends to play dnd lol
Same
One of the things that I think got lost in the comparing Sorc to Bard is that Bard is a ritual caster. The versatility you can get from Comprehend Language, Speak With Animals, Detect Magic, Identify, etc without having to use those precious spell slots is substantial.
Very good point, save those spell slots for the smites
I think the phrase "Opportunity Cost" is the best way to describe the issue with paladin multi classes. Yes you could pick Bard but Sorcerer is so much stronger
Debateable. Sorcerer is more powerful in combat, but across all pillars of play the Bard is a better MC.
@@agilemind6241 Also, you can go Paladin/Bard, pick up the Metamagic Adept feat, and be able to eat your cake and have it, too, to an extent. You lose Flexible Casting by going that route and get fewer Sorcery Points, but in return you get a larger hit die, better skill rolls, and Bardic Inspiration.
EDIT: I saw another client further elsewhere here that also pointed out that Bard is a Ritual Caster, while Sorcerer is not, so that can narrow the perceived gap even further.
In addition to the other guy's comments on Bard. The fact is, pair any CHA caster with Paladin and it's an S tier combination. They all just work so seamlessly together. I've made builds utilizing all 4 of them that absolutely slap.
@@malmasterson3890 Paladin dip into Hexblade Warlock.
And furthermore, bard give you an extra hp per lvl compared to sorcerer, which isn't nothing, and the college of sword is such an amazing subclass for martials just because of defensive flourish.
Palabard could totally make the chivalric archetype. Poetry, swordplay, grace, socially adept, a lot of woohing.
Skald background and you have the Viking Bard.
Arguably, a Crown Paladin/Bard is more of a Samurai than the Samurai.
Did this as a satyr glamour bard ancients paladin... he was very much the life of the tavern and the support tank of the party
@@danielbisping1230nice take on that. Though my personal favorite Skald Bard is multiclass Bard/Barbarian. Use perform to start inspiration off via reciting parts of the Edda. Then fly into a totem rage and watch the limbs fly.
A changeling palabard makes for the perfect prostitute. Immunity to diseases. A way to not get pregnart and all the charm you can get
When doing your fighter dip, make it an eldritch knight, take absorb elements and shield, and it even contributes to your spell slot progression.
I'd say Rune Knight, but you need 7 levels of Rune Knight to make it good.
the tradeoff of course is needing to invest in intelligence
@@benthomason3307just take the spells that don’t require spell saves or attack rolls. Things like shield, magic missile, protection from evil and good, alarm, etc. the buff /utility spells. You’re never going to be as good a spell caster as a full caster class so just take things to make life easier for you and your party.
Or Find Familiar...
Dipping 3 levels of Eldritch Knight for Absorb Elements and Shield and one extra class level worth of spell progression is a lot less impressive when you can get the exact same thing more quickly and efficiently with a single level of Sorcerer.
If it wasnt a numerical nightmare, a Paladin/Artificer/Bard that focuses Int + Char could make saving throws near impossible to fail with the Aura of Protection, Flash of Genius, Bardic Inspiration combo.
6 7 (best numbers has 5 and chr per short)
18 levels to add maybe 13 to saving throws? (the 13 is assuming max chr, 16 int for +3 and avg roll of d8 for +5) (or +12 at 14th but per long)
not too bad
You know that this is Blaster from the Transformers, right?
Palabard is beautiful on a concept level, and just needs a decent bit of theorycrafting to become really powerful.
I've seen incredibly Bardladins, getting divine smite and using magical secrets to get the paladin spells before the paladin would and it's awesome
I have a player that is a Conquest Paladin/Sword Bard and can be kind of a pain. 😅 He can get his AC really high and also has really good saves.
@@cohesian1 Conquest 6 Eloquence makes a wonderful Evangelical character.
My concept is a defense attorney or civil rights lawyer. They use their oratory skills and if necessary, their blade to pursue justice
@Teaandephemery I had a concept of a devotion Paladin eloquence bard that proselytizes to the people that he meets. Also, it's kind of unfair that you'll probably have a really ridiculously high bonus to persuasion and deception, which you can never under get under 10 thanks to silver tongue
I picked a bad time to go out of town! Backlog growing! Can’t wait to dive in 😊
As a side note for Paladin/Rogue, sneak attack only requires you use a weapon with the finesse feature, it doesn’t require that you use Dex, so you could instead set your Dex at 13, leave it there, and get some minor benefits from having it tied to that and use Strength and Heavy Armor for the build
I was just about to say this!
Exactly and take swashbuckler rogue
@@MrSITH-qj6zpgo Swashbuckler and then pick up Booming Blade, maybe with a 1 level dip into Warlock so you can use CHA. Booming Blade/Smite/Sneak Attack, then walk away where they can't get you without activating BB.
@@brewdaly1873outside of dashing I’m trying to think what would be the best use for bonus action since you don’t need to disengage
@@beantownbanshees smite spells are bonus actions, and can be stacked on top of everything else I mentioned. Beyond that, there's not a lot, so you could dip into Arcane Trickster for something very similar.
The Paladin/Bard or the Fighter/Bard whose has an Axe that is both a weapon and a guitar and whose music is just Sabaton songs. Also, Paladin/Barbarian isn't the Punisher, they're the Doomslayer.
Paladin/Bard: Savage!
Paladin/Sorcerer: Sick Skills!!
Paladin/Warlock: Smokin' Sexy Style!!!
Doomslayer is definitely the better comparison. Rip and tear until it is done.
@@TsorovanZero Doom Stalker
Points for knowing Sabaton
Something I think gets overlooked regarding the Warlock is just how much synergy the Paladin and Celestial Warlock have with each other; you're getting all of that Cleric stuff as a Warlock, which means you don't have to worry about stretching out your stats, and you also get a whole lot of extra healing, including a Warlock ability akin to the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability, an additional pool of non-spell healing is something that is overlooked in Warlock build when it is discussed here.
Maybe when the Warlock multiclassing video rolls around, Monty and Kelly can talk about how well the Celestial Warlock plays with Clerics and Paladins, and they can also discuss how well Archfey really plays with Druid and Ranger, along with the other subclasses that seem to play well with specific builds and the like.
It really feels like they made the Warlock to be THE multiclass class, because so many of the subclasses mesh so well with other classes.
Celestial warlock is incrediblely underrated. It effectively adds a first lv spell slot to cast healing word every level as well as invocations. It's a great choice for almost any multiclass especially melee attackers who don't want to use CHA on attack rolls.
I made a paladin/warlock and refused to do hexblade cause I wanted to be special.
I did oath of conquest/undead patron. I feared on hit and any enemy feared near me had 0 movement. I was also a bugbear so I attacked from 10ft away. It was such a fun build lol
OH. OH THE FEAR FROM UNDEAD. That is a *great* way to get use from conquest’s aura
Paladin/Bard-> Pro Wrestler. I love the thought of smiting with a steel chair, and using your mic skills for Bardic Inspiration and either inspiring leader if you're a babyface, or cutting words and vicious mockery if you're a heel! 😂😂😂
Come to think of it... Pluto Jackson could make for a great Pally/Bard!
Throw on Tavern Brawler, Grappler, and take unarmed fighting and you're dropping holy fury from the top rope.
Take Chef and keep an icebox full of cans of whoopass
I have seen the Paladin with Tavern Brawler and Unarmed fight. It was annoying as a role-play. Maybe it was just me and the player.
😂😂 brilliant
I think the multiclass dip for Wizard is for 2 lvls in War Magic. Adding +4 as a reaction to your saving throws, on top of +5 from your Aura of Protection, is REALLY strong. Stack on the 2d4 from 1 lvl in Divine Soul, plus Bless, plus 1 lvl in Peace cleric, plus Autognome... means you can build a crazy multi-classed character where failing a saving throw is basically mathematically impossible.
Another great example of a paladin/bard might be Gurney Halleck from Frank Herbert's Dune. Side note: I hope we get to see the cut content of Josh Brolin playing the baliset in the 2nd film. But going back to the character as a whole. He is a deeply religious man often, reciting scripture in the books and movies, which gives you a paladin flavor. But he also has strong elements of devotion to his house and is a master tactician and student of war. He also inspires the soldiers of house of Atriedes throughout the series and trains Paul in the art of combat and political maneuvers.
That's a great point! 🙂👍
I believe he himself has stated that he wanted a baliset scene but I could have just made that up. Personally I think gurney halleck would be fighter/bard, but his devotion is 1000%
Nvm yeah I forgot about how often he quotes from the orange Bible
Religious? Didn't he quote only song lyrics?
@@Crowsinger In the original book he often quotes segments of the Orange Catholic Bible, the religious text that was an amalgamation of multiple religious texts in what we call the modern day of humanity. This text was a major factor for a lot of the political factions in Dune and varied across the imperium as the bene gesserit seeded multiple worlds with messianic prophecies to further their agenda of social control.
@@_emory I think it can swing either way but the devotion factor to house Atredies and the vengefulness he shows towards house Harkonnen for the time he spent in the slave fighting pits could take it in either direction subclass wise. He also develops some roguish factors in his time with the spice smugglers after the assault on Arrakeen and the death of Duke Leto.
Been listening to you guys for over a year, and I love your content… especially these videos.
BUT DAMN!!!
It’d be nice if Monty let Kelly finish a thought, or his own jokes without interrupting or stealing his thunder.
You said for all of us!
One slight protest with Wizard... War Magic. Take aura of protection and arcane deflection and you have got a saving throw making machine with shield, absorb elements, find familiar, etc.
For the paladin bard Joe made such an amazing one for the wild west one shot in Westimar you guys made. That ending was just perfect
Me watching this currently playing a Vengeance Pally/ Divine Soul Sorcerer multiclass, is EVERYTHING I needed!
I'm doing the same thing, but with the hexbalade dip, LOL.
I’m doing it too, as Vuman with Polearm Master, just awesome. Which combos you prefer most?
Thematically, my favorite is paladin/warlock because of the dichotomy of having a deep evil inside you that you're desperately trying to suppress with willpower and discipline.
I created one where he took on the pact to save his father from having to pay a debt to a demon. Hated his extra powers.
I am currently playing an Archfey Warlock/Oath of the Ancient Paladins. Started as a Paladin and the RP is that my deep devotion to nature is how I encountered an Archfey with the same goal.
When they brought up the different subclasses and themes I thought of ghost rider hex blade pact of the chains with vengeance paladin
@@matthewlavender1361 Hell yeah that rules
While Divine Soul is definitely the obvious choice for a Soradin I’d like to point out Clockwork Soul may be as good. You might not get Spirit Guardians but you can trade Alarm for Armor of Agathys which is incredible and thematically it works as a Paladin can view there duty is to bring Order so having a connection to a realm of Order works really well.
the Paladin Oath of Conquest get Armor of Agathys from expanded spell list
@@ricardorodriguez-ll1iv But not nearly enough spell levels/slots to use to the fullest. And if I'm grabbing a domain spell on Pally I'm taking Oath of the Crown for Spirit Guardians.
6 levels of Aberrant Mind Sorcerer gets you Psionic Sorcery, letting you potentially cast something completely undetected, provided its on your psionic spells list(which you can customize), and you use sorcery points at a 1:1 to spell level to cast it.
Only question is what order goes with aberrant mind's Cthulu-esque approach? Watchers? Devotion? An interesting take on Ancients?
Honestly, it's hard to say there are any bad options for Sorcadins. They Two classes blend perfectly well enough just with CHA base, Metamagic, AoP, and Smites alone that the subclasses really don't matter that much. There's a few obvious non-bos like Draconic Sorcerer, but even then it's still hard to go wrong.
No contest, divine soul is better. Access to all divine spells is unbeatable
Just wanted to point out that a palabarb can also go for a more introspective build with oath of the Ancients and totem warrior or storm herald - haven't done any number crunching but I like the way the rage auras stack with the paladin auras.
It's not just hexblade. Undead warlock is also S tier.
Any warlock subclass can take EB+AB to let you fight from range and prioritise CHA at the same time, allowing you to get the absolute most out of your aura of protection by maximising the bonus and staying close to the vulnerable members of the party.
Any warlock subclass can take RB on top of that to keep enemies away at the same time.
But only Undead can do all that while also sprinkling the Frightened condition in there to keep enemies away even better.
Fighting from range means no smite.
@TerraDoctor Which means more slots to spellcast. Smite's overrated anyway, and you're technically getting free damage by playing at range because you take less damage at range. This means your damage trades are worth more. Smite is still there to rely on if you want that damage immediately to take out a high-priority target like spellcasters, but now it's more of a backpocket thing, which tbh it sort of has always been.
@@KobeEscalante Then why play it instead of sorlock if you want no smite and no melee build.
I've been OBSESSING over a dexadin with 3 levels into swashbuckler rogue for months now, glad to see it was appreciated here. For paladin I'd definitely go either vengeance or glory. Vengeance to mark your target with advantage, or glory if you want to be an athletic threat using expertise from rogue mixed the advantage you can get from the glory channel divinity. Mixed together you can be a formidable grappler with a relatively low Str score, so you still take advantage the strength you have from multiclassing out of pally
Palidin barbarian is Mace windu. Vaapad his signature fighting style dips into the dark side of the force (rage and reckless attack) while maintaining peace with the light (divine smite)
As a new dm with only new players ive been using this channel to help my players thanks guys
I’m realizing with the Paladin/Divine Sorcerer combo presented not only would you have access to Quickened Spell spirit guardians, but a Quickened Haste too. One great spell for crowd control, and the other to better focus in your damage on a big boss
And for every other sorcerer option a Paladin throwing out a Quickened Fireball is just very funny to me
I love how they bring up expertise here with the Bard. Yes the sorcerer does more damage but the Bard has great out of combat utility with that and jack of all trades. Bardic inspiration with a creation Bard or lore Bard also are great fits for the paladin depending how you want to focus on support
Bretons were one of my fav armies in fantasy! Every miniature’s beautiful.
A paladin bard is a combination I rolled once as a zealot who preached during combat (very warhammerish) being a bard dedicated to poems
Remember about the Bard-Paladin: the Paladin is immune to diseases!
I think the one option of a cleric dip that the Paladin really loves is the War Domain. A few extra bonus action attacks, and a +10 to your attacks when you role bad, really helps you to throw even more burst damage when its really needed.
My dhampir Divine Soul Sorcadin is probably my favorite character of all time. My DM allowed me to use your Homebrew Expanded Spell list, so for the domain I chose the Twilight cleric's expanded spell list. I replaced a few spells from the expanded spell list to get Guiding Bolt (because of twin guiding bolts), Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. 🤟😤
Sorcadin, aka "the response to a midlevel TPK"
I used to play Bretonnia as well, that super cool! I've been looking forward to this video since you started the series... I'll admit I'm a little biased here with the Fighter/Pally because I was brand new at table starting off as a Fighter and I ended up getting along really well with the party's Cleric. So my character multied into Paladin as a sort of show of kinship with them, and it was just such a good feeling to play
They say “progression fantasy” like it’s a common phrase. I don’t know what it is.
i think for Paladin/Druid you all missed that a druid can give a huge boost too the gameplay that most paladins suffer at which is stealth. Imagine being in full plate and the party wants too sneak past the guards well as a druid multiclass you could just go beast and sneak by as a little spider. Party really happy with you.
Personally, in 5th Edition, I've played a multi-classed Warlock/Paladin and a gestalt-build Paladin/Sorcerer. And the only thing that ever brought me down about playing them were the disastrous campaigns they were a part of. That I can look on them somewhat fondly despite those traumas is a testament to how truly powerful said combinations are!
Gestalt!!
For paladin I had created one of the most ridiculous Lore Vengeance Pallibard. This build gave me access to a reaction with cutting words and I could just wreck monster attacks. The magical secrets allowed my to take Spirit Guardians and counterspell.
Oh good another Colby Challange Accepted video!
An interesting idea that is probably only for short adventures or one shots is a high-level oathbreaker/necromancer. Summon undead, and give them a power up.
Half elf Swashbuckler Paladin really addresses those characterstic needs. And add some Elven Accuracy later on. Which really increases those crit chances for the Nova sneak attack smite.
I thought elven accuracy didn't apply to str att rolls? maybe grab some hexblade as well
@@thetruegavinator Any Rogue Paladin will be dex based using finesse weapons. 13 STR at best.
@@Psuedo-Nim I'm just saying, that hex dip would be immaculate. makes your auras stronger
@@thetruegavinator It could help. half elf makes stats 13 STR, 14 Dex, 14 CON, 17 CHA. 1 Hexblade, then six straight into paladin, grab elven accuracy along the way then 3 for swashbuckler. probably go 4 levels swashbuckler to get to 20 CHA by level 11. if it's a campaign going beyond 12, to 20 or so, I'd consider it, especially if the game started in the mid-levels. For a game stopping in levels 10-12, probably would just do Sorcadin
I watch your videos on occasion, this episode has inspired a character (paladin bard) who wants to be a town mayor, and is using his adventuring prowess to get more experience, garner more support.
Paladin + Rogue = Matt Murdock
Paladin + Barbarian = Frank Castle
Dare Devil would not be in the Paladin equation. Shadow Monk/ Gloom stalker and maybe the rogue or Shadow Sorc.
Did you know, that in the description for the Barbarian, nowhere does it say that you cannot rage in heavy armour. The rules say you cannot gain the benefits of rage, not that you can't rage. The famous Bear Totem Barbarian feature, doesn't ever reference heavy armour, and only says "while raging". This means you could be a smiting, raging, heavy armour weilding herald of death, who is resistant to all damage except psychic. As a long time DnD, and Paladin player, I have just discovered this, and it has blown my mind
Personally, I feel like the Palabarian can be S tier with the right setup. I call him the "righteous fury" paladin
A paladin with rage is a beast
Zealot barbarian+improved divine smite is just an absurdly consistent way to be pumping out damage
My current character is a Barbarian 2/ Paladin of Conquest 3, and he is just stupidly strong. The whole concept was that perfect fantasy Viking blessed by the gods. He rolls with no armor, and a great axe. We roll our stats, and with Aasimar bonuses, he ended up pretty stacked early for all 4 of the necessary stats
PSA: Oath of the Crown also gives you Spirit Guardians (if nothing else...)
One thing I think didn't get enough attention in this video is that Paladin is one of the least bonus-action-hungry classes in the game. To that point, I think you've somewhat undervalued a Druid dip on a Paladin. Spores could be nice for damage; Moon Druid provides a really nice source of tankiness; and Wildfire could be absolutely incredible for battlefield control using Fiery Teleportation to maneuver allies out of harm's way. Heck, Spirit Totem or Dreams would add some nice healing options to support the party in addition to the Pally Aura.
I played a lawful good paladin/bard 6/5 in a oneshot and role played him as everyone’s dad, aura of protection and bardic inspiration were a powerful combo. Had a blast!
Using your videos to plan my first Baldurs gate playthrough, but God damnit, there are so many great options.
Paladin/wizard: you like pain and you hate sorcerers.
Maybe bladesinger with metamagic adept for quicken?
Quickened greenflame blade + extra attack where one of those is another greenflame blade, and of course smite when possible.
Not great for extended battles, but an option why someone might choose that over sorcerer.
More like you like to frustrate your enemies by boosting your AC, saves, AND initiative by picking two levels of war wizard in addition to aura of protection. That is really all you need from the wizard. The ful-caster spellslot-progresson is but a nifty bonus
@@Praetarius Bladesinger6/paladin2/Sorcerer 12. In that order. Vanilla human with 12/15/13/13/8/12 as base stats.
@@PyroGobbo I think at that point it is no longer a paladin multiclass, but a wizard one.
@@Praetarius True
did a little theorycrafting on the artificer/paladin. It's completely MAD, way worse than the paladin is normally, but you can get around it. Taking high half-elf as a race gives you +2 to charisma and +1 to two bonus stats, helping you reach the 13 strength, intelligence, and charisma you need to make it happen. With point buy I was able to get 13str/8dex/14con/16int/8wis/16cha.
Why do this? Because battle master is great sure, but there's also a lot to be said for armorer artificer. Armorer guardian is already a great defender build and thunder gauntlets are a good way to keep enemies engaged with you. Plus you're able to stack divine smite or potentially booming blade on top of them, and they work with two weapon fighting, so you can also use your bonus action to attack on top of the extra attack paladin or artificer give you. This gives you a high amount of damage + high amount of defense and stickiness.
Plus, like you guys said, it just sounds cool.
Stars Druid, specifically the chalice and dragon forms could be kinda cool.
The archer though gives a nice range bonus action attack even with a plus one wisdom mod you can do up to 9 damage as a bonus action not the strongest but it might let you hit a second target in a turn which works well if you kill your target in melee
Paladin/Rogue multi can also be really good with assassin. Just take 3 levels for your advantage and auto crit on your surprise attack and get free crit smites to start most combats!
Once you get through these ,it would be cool to have a wuick look at the ones that get dropped immediately because of ability scores. Say a guaranteed start 15 to 17 on each of the ability scores needed, then see how it works with the features
I keep saying that you can make a paladin/ monk work. You need to use point buy to get five 13s and a 10, and then use PHB human to raise all stats by a +1. Now you have 14s in everything, and all of your abilities work okay.
@@carsonrush3352 14s in everything is.... terrible. "all of your abilities work okay" is basically saying "solid "C-". Nobody wants to play a C-, especially as a paladin, which baselines as S tier.
I am currently playing a Sapphire Gemstone Dragonborn Pally( has since gone Oathbreaker with the multiclass) Hexblade with Polearm master. He's a meatgrinding MONSTER with lots of social abilities. He's by far my favorite character I've ever played.
My newest character is very similar. He’s a Scourge Aasimar Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade warlock who wields a blessed Glaive and I do plan on taking Polearm Master as soon as I can
Paladin with 2 levels of war magic wizard is a pretty decent build. Arcane Deflection giving you a +2 to AC when hit or a +4 to Saving Throws on command is not to be ignored when combined with a paladins aura. This reaction limits you from casting spells but doesn't prevent you from still smiting and using booming blade. Of course you also speed up your spell casting progression, and get ritual casting.
Chronurgy 1 for Chronal Shift, Temporal Awareness, and Gift of Alacrity (as well as common standouts in Shield, Absorb Elements and/or Silvery Barbs) also works pretty well. High Initiative all the time and crit immunity twice for two attacks/LR partywide is very desirable for any class.
@@RJWhitmoreWould need to be 2 levels cause you don’t get your subclass on wizard until 2nd level, but otherwise yeah, good points. Personally I think the initiative boost is actually one of the stronger points, given Dex is often a dump stat for paladins.
@@Lightfire398 True, was going from the other direction as a Chronurgy Wizard taking a level 1 Peace Cleric dip and forgot the subclass wasn't level 1 for Wizard in turn.
Yeah, Initiative is essentially like getting a free turn since combat ends on your turn eventually, unless you lose. In a game where combat is often two or three rounds it is big. Saying nothing of the practicality of being able to cast control spells and aoe before any mixing of sides can occur.
for Artificer/Paladin, I remember seeing a support focused build using the artilerists eldritch cannon, I need to find the video for that though.
Paladin / Whisper-Bard. Is insane. You can Smite and Psychic Blades on each of your Attacks… imagine wielding a Glaive and PAW… 3 Attacks… possible 3 Smites and 3 Psychic Blades (which comes back at Short Rest) for exorbitant damage… 🙈❤️
You can only psychic blade once per turn
Also, an oathbreaker paladin/necromancy wizard is really strong, +5 to all your damage and +5 to all your undead summons, lets say your paladin 12/wizard 8, you summon like 5 undead, you personally are dealing 5d8 dmg with divine smite, + 1d8 + 1d8 cause of improved divine smite + 5 with your sword, + 30 with you and your 5 zombies with aura of hate, then your zombies attack damage, lets say 1d8 + 2, thats 7d8 + 37, in one attack each all added up, now with extra attack you deal an extra 2d8 + 10, for a total of 9d8 + 47 or a max of 119 in one round, ny maths might be wrong or missing something, but it's still a pretty good combo that i feel like you missed in the vid, edit: they also add a +6 to damage rolls, for an extra 30 damage, so 149 damage in one turn
One of my players is playing a Fighter Champ 3/Wolf Barb 3/Vengeance Paladin 9. His single turn damage record is over 200, and he seems to be having fun with it.
Oh I've been waiting for this one and excited to see Ranger as well as Paladin
I played through the entire Hoard the Dragon Queen and the Rise of Tiamat (+extended homebrew campaign as we lost the final fight as lvl 15) over almost 3 years. I ended up being a Silver Dragonborn Fighter Battlemaster lvl 11 and Vengeance Paladin lvl 9. The burst damage in the end was absurd - I believe I did 113 dam with one crit and did more than 350 damage in one round with 7 attacks from my +3 Vorpal Glaive against Tiamat. Fun fun fun!
Undead Warlock 4 / Conquest Paladin 7 is one of those multiclasses that finally made me excited for something that wasn’t Hexblade. That Form of Dread combined with the lockdown Aura of Conquest… so nasty
I have a Oath of Vengeance Paladin/Celestial Warlock Earth Genasi that I'm so excited to try out at some point.
It's funny your first instinct was the Punisher. I am currently playing Kip, a Shifter Barbarian-Paladin in a hembrew campaing and she's literally the nicest soul - instantly makes friends with every. Single. NPC. Much to my DMs delight since he puts a lot of work into his NPCs. Thematically I went with a chaos vs. order theme. I started with a path of the Wild Soul Barbarian (I liked the chaos of it) but realising she might harm her friends she is looking to control her powers which led her on the path of Oath of the Ancients Paladin. I only realised the chaos vs. order theme as I started playing so now I have a set of order dice (for choices where I am level headed) and a set of chaos dice (for choices where I lean towards being emotional). I have also decided to chose levels based on the choices I have made since last leveling: more rational choices=Paladin, more chaotic choices=Barbarian.
Don't get me wrong, she's the possibly worst mechanical built ever - I couldn't have built her to be less effective if I had tried to but thematically and personality wise she's the most detailed and most fun character I've ever played and a completely different archetype from what your first insticts were
Sorry for commenting a second time but just got to the sorcerer and it reminded me of the time I got to play a 20th level character. She was a protector aasimar with 6 Oath of Devotion/Champion Fighter 4/Divine Soul 10. That was disgusting. Now we rolled stats so I got lucky and could start with 16 in strength and Charisma. Which pushed the build but I ended up with 20 in Both and GWM. So with channel divinity the GWM - 5 was just canceled out. I went crit fishing and boy did I catch a big one. I had every thing going, Aasimar Aura, Holy Weapon, Channel Divinity and quickened booming blade as my first attack and I crited.... So.... Many... Dice.....
I play a Bardadin in a Fisney game.
Homebrew Paladin (Oath of the N Star) with plans to become Eloquence Bard.
She’s a great support and gish fighter.
My newborn is keeping me up all night. I'm sitting here with one earphone in listening to the dudes hoping he stays asleep. What a Sunday night.
Not complaining, Just sharing another perspective:
A paladin bard isnt just a charming and boastfull comedy relief, keep in mind that the essense of a bard is to inspire, perform and tell stories. Pair it with zeal Born out of fiery conviction and you get a natural leader, someone whose each chant is a reality bending rally cry, whose each strike is a work of art in the name of their beliefs and whose Magic manifest throug the weaponization of sheer emotional intent and awe. If fighting against a wizard is like fighting against reality itself bent acording to their will, fighting against a bard feels like youre fighting against the narrative itself! Youre doomed to fail not bc youre weaker then them, but rather bc of narrative causality
My younger brother plays a Swashbukler Paladin Oath of Redemption. His DPS is insane. Super fun build
Never even considered a paladin barb or paladin bard until now. Now I'm thinking of a hexblade paladin bard gnome telling anyone that can hear of his amazing battles
Ancients Paladruid gets you even tankyer, allows you to take thornwhip, and makes the most versatile class even more versatile with wild shape. Just take two levels of druid and the rest as paladin. Plus it has great rp elements w/ ancients.
Respeccd Wyll to Paladin/warlock to role play him starting as honorable paladin and then going past of the blade specifically to be stronger. Charisma for melee, magic, saves, and dialogue holy shit. And extra recharging smite slots woo. Start paladin for heavy armor and then get defense fighting style and dual wielding so I can use pact weapon smites and staff fireballs with multi attacks and 22AC before spells, plus repelling eldritch blast for testing fools on ledges. Was so fire 😭
An Oath of Glory Paladin/Barbarian for the ultimate Athlete (plus it’s Channel Divinity giving temp HP to itself pairs amazingly with Rage). Or an Oath of Redemption Paladin/Barbarian would be interesting internal struggle, and it makes a great Tank.
If you do oath of glory/beast barbarian and pick up skill expert for athletics you could get a potential high jump of 50 feet at level 9 when it comes online
@@Marb315 who the hell is jumping in combat? not to mention 5d6 bludgeoning (likely halved if raging) when you fall
also glory gets the feature at 7th and for 9th level its only 2 barb so no beast (and it's still only 40 ft until barb 5 which is level 12, but factoring in bestial soul would be level 13)
@captainpolar2343 oath of glory get their channel divinity that boosts jump height at level 3 not level 7, besides I never said it'd be good or useful
I just wrapped a paladin11bard6 character and he was one of my favorites. So much utility and damage. Oath of the ancients and college of eloquence
Rogue 3 going assassin with poison the rest of the way with paladin. Biggest possible 1 hit dmg? Surprise sneak attack with a smite using a poison coated weapon 💪😆
Also like the idea of using a whip with this build for a slight ranged smite ✨
Studded leather so you aren't clunky loud. Rapier using dex for attack.
Thinking about RP it's something like a Trevor Belmont from the Castlevania anime 🏰
I think the armorer artificer with the guardian model would go well here. You can use strength and smite with the fist weapons while giving out disadvantage.
And you can go for the other option for stealth missions since you get advantage on stealth checks to cancel out the disadvantage from heavy armour
I play a Paladin/Warlock on a twitch stream game (Quill and Sword) and she's a lot of fun. Oath of Vengeance + Hexblade = Sad goth girl with a big sword.
Last session I messed up my DMs plans without even swinging my blade. He did not expect me to cast Fly and Counterspell.
Its a great combo.
9:03 Hear me out: Half-orc oath of conquest paladin, bear totem barbarian (3) and champion fighter (3). You have the following defensive features: Relentless Endurance, Medium Armor and Shield Proficiency, Totem Spirit: Bear, Aura of Protection, Lay on Hands, Second Wind
As well as the following offensive features: Longsword Proficiency, Savage Attacks, Action Surge, Extra Attack, Improved Critical, Rage, Reckless Attack, Channel Divinity: Guided Strike, Divine Smite, at higher levels Improved Divine Smite, Fighting Styles Tunnel Fighter and Superior Technique: Riposte.
You are both unkillable and hit like an absolute truck.
Bonus if warlock blade pact, eldritch smite. You can throw it on the same hit as divine smite. Get that crit? 16d8 baby for 2 3rd lvl spellslots, plus your weapon damage.
2 levels for war wizard's arcane deflection. (+2 AC/+4to saves)
With 5 in charisma you can push your saving throw to +9, you also get a +2 AC.
Once you got your concentration spell up (bless whatever) your talking about +11.5 to saving throws and a 23 AC (with defense fighting style and full plate armor and shield). All by level 8.
Sneak in 2 level of hexblade to become more SAD and you have a long range viable tanky pally at level 10 (when most campaigns end)
I think the big factor for staying single class with the paladin is extending the range of their aura of protection to 30ft and their capstone. A lot of the paladin capstones are incredibly strong and worth the wait, even if most campaigns aren't going to get to them.
It doesn't compare to the Hexblade, but Celestial Warlock does pair quite well with Paladin. With healing light on top of lay on hands, it makes you a very viable primary healer without costing you any attacks, radiant soul adds some damage, Guiding Bolt and Sacred Flame on top of Eldritch Blast gives you multiple reliable options at range, and Flaming Sphere very quickly provides a useful way of dealing damage with your bonus action.
Paladin has so many S ranks because it blends so well with Cha classes as well as Str classes. It's the all arounder class so it's highlighting one aspect of the class either spellcasting or big hits
Most damage I've ever done, or even seen, in one turn was 285 as a Hexblade 9/Vengeance Paladin 6 against an ancient green dragon. I land a crit with the Hand of Vecna(+2d8) wielding Axe of the Dwarven Lords(1d10 + 4d10) unleashing lvl5 Arcane Smite (+6d8) and lvl5 Divine Smite (+5d8). That's 10d10 + 26d8 + 24. Second attack, crit again, no lvl 5 slots, so this one is 10d10 + 16d8 + 24. Total was a little below the average, but 285 was enough to put the dragon down.
I can't help but think you are undercutting Pact of the Tome: Shillelagh, It's Hexblade for other pacts. With Genie it's concentration free flight on a smite build or what Monk should have been and was in other versions. I know, I've run it. Undead+Conquest or Dao+Ancients both provide thematic and powerful multis that exceed Bard and probably do better than most sorcs.
Hexblade just gets double smite (Eldritch+Divine) over Tome, and only if they go Blade. And Shield I will give you that.
Once you start factoring in Channel Divinity, Warlock's short rest factor really does close the gap with Sorc. Bard is a somewhat distant Forth vs pure Paladin. Ironically Lore is probably better here than Swords since the Flourishes just won't match up with the Extra Magic Secrets and Cutting Words.
Favourite character I've ever played was a Paladin/Bard - rolled stats and three of them came up negative, but it didn't matter. Desparately want to play him again, campaign ended way too soon.
Paladins are only strong due to one single feature: Aura of Protection. Having a potential +5 to ALL saves for multiple players is bonkers - made even better by the fact that due to dump stats and no proficiency someone could be going from an easy -1 to a +4. It is almost sacrilege to not have a Paladin buff the party in this way.
THAT said, it is not guaranteed. A Paladin who chooses to focus on Str or Dex (and likely Con) over Cha will not be doing this. Furthermore, a melee Paladin (which is really the only possibility if staying straight-class due to losing Smite and having no ranged boosts) in a party of ranged characters (so basically, no Barbarian or an odd melee Fighter/Rogue choice) can not be effective a lot of the time while still providing that buff due to the 10ft radius.
So the only way this really works out is either the Paladin is in a largely melee party (honestly, a single ranged can be problematic here if the DM is happy to target them, since they wont be in the aura usually) OR the Paladin takes two levels of Warlock for Repelling Agonising Eldritch Blast and joins the largely ranged party. If the party is a mix (say a 5man party; 2 melee, 2 ranged, and the Paladin) this can be really tough with an opportunistic DM unless the ranged forgo being ranged and stick close to melee (which can be done with dipping for armour).
Wait, but what about Smite, isn't that the GOAT? Nah, its pretty dire for Spell Slot usage. A ranged Fighter will outdamage a Smiting Paladin hands-down, except potentially in nova situations IF everything aligns just so (crit every attack, Smite). The only reason Paladin uses Smite at all is because they lack good Spells - in fact, the Spell choice is so bad that the level 1 Bless is one of their best Spells and should be up whenever possible. If you get good Spells (some subclasses, like Crown for Spiritual Guardians, and of course multiclassing) say goodbye to Smite except the occasionally level 1 Spell Slot on a crit against a fiend/undead. Check out: nystulsmagicwebsite.wordpress.com/2022/04/04/paladins-as-intended-dont-work/
Wait, but the AC! Well, if without a shield and Shield it isn't much to write home about. A Wizard with a single one level Cleric/Artificer dip will outperform here. Furthemore, NOT going into melee does wonder for your health - which is kind of problematic for a straight-classed Paladin.
Conclusion? Go Paladin up to 6/7 (subclass dependent). Then grab two levels of Warlock. Then go Sorcerer. Check out: tabletopbuilds.com/flagship-build-oath-of-the-watchers-paladin/
Is this a Paladin Multiclass? Eh... kind of? Up to like level 16 it is as much Paladin as anything else, and how many campaigns go even that far?
clockwork soul sorcerer. Level 2 sorcerer: switch alarm for armor of agythys. Now your paladin has: ranged cantrips, AoA, shield, absorb elements.
that is really cool idea just remember the Paladin Oath of Conquest get Armor of Agathys from expanded spell list
Ok, I think RAW you're right about Ranger. But if you remove the multiclass restrictions, it actually looks very nice and it still makes a lot of sense. Mind you I'm actually talking about the inverse (a Ranger dipping into Paladin). A Ranger that doesn't use Dex makes sense to forget that score when multiclassing. And if you're not using Paladin spells with attack rolls or DCs, why should you need to restrict yourself when there's a really cool build option on the line? Then what you can have is a Strength based Drakewarden/Paladin flying around on a dragon smiting people with a giant glaive. Tell me that is not the ultimate fantasy.
Just started playing a paladin 2/ barbarian 1 gonna multiclass into fighter, the course I'm going with is paladin oath of redemption 7/ barbarian ancestral guardian 3/ fighter battle master 3 and its a ultimate defense build, also took kender for race for that extra taunt, took interception, gonna take shield master and sentinal and it will be an insane tank build I have about 3-5 ways to make enemies atk me, great damge, and an increadible front liner
May I ask a question, were you to do a paladin sorceror should you start off as the sorceror and then switch to paladin or flip it around? Same question but with paladin bard combo? Thank you, DDs and I would like your thoughts on the following:
I am a returning D&D player (last played in the late 1980s/early 1990s) and was wondering do you just allow multi-classing automatically or do you like to roll in a switch in class with a storyline, as in a sorceror who meets a paladin who offers to train him or her in the ways of paladinhood? I'm asking as I am working on a book that I have dabbled in converting to a D&D campaign.
You missed the Commander. Just a dip into Collage of Elequence. This is the Paladin who leads an Army, or is the Captian of a Ship. ( MC with Oath of the Open Sea ). First 8 levels in any Paladin, then dip 3 levels into collage of Elequence. the rest is up to you. And you will lead an Army of devoted followers. Start a Rebelion, or a Coup.
Oath of the Watchers would make a great pairing also.
3 level dip in Artificer is good to be the Tank. Artillerist you can get temp Hp every turn.
Armorer is good to make the enemies target you instead of the team.
Monty... You're great and even if you're really excited about what you want to say, please stop interrupting Kelly. It's something I've noticed you do with intermittent regularity but in this episode it's particularly bad. Love your show guys, it's been my favorite D&D channel for years.
Please make a set of videos analysing three class multiclassing! Love from Brazil!
"When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls."
You could in theory use your str as a rogue, and only have a 13 in dex.
It's definitely not better than the CHA casters, but Wizard is still really good just because it is the strongest class in DnD. If nothing else, it offers subclasses with features the CHA casters can't do. Most of the time definitely go for Hexadin & Sorcadin, but if you roll insane stats give a Bladesinger or Chronurgist Paladin combo a try.
For a later build in palabard by level 8, just 2 levels in paladin and the rest in sword or valor bard, you pretty much get everything except for auras, with extra attack and full level casting, and if you really want to get spicy you can add a 3 level dip for sorcerer in the combo as well for quicken spell. Can hold enemies with your bonus action and smite with your main action.