The show was a good warning signal to existing fantasy authors who want to pursue adaptations. I believe Pierce Brown and Sanderson are taking more of an ownership role in their TV productions to prevent a show runner or production vastly overriding the original vision
Brandon Sanderson spoke extensively, although somewhat vaguely (I guess because of NDAs and such), about his involvement in the Wheel of Time series. He was hired as a consultant, at least officially. He confirmed, though, that he was totally sidelined by shows creators, and they made many decisions against his advice. So, Sanderson acted as a representative of Jordan's estate, but was ignored. That's said, Expanse was the only TV show where original authors had something to say in recent years, ironically, also produced by Amazon at some point. All other IPs were purchased and original authors remained only as consultants, or were totally ignored, sometimes because they wanted so (this is the situation with Netflix' Witcher). Hollywood studios do not want original authors controlling the content they make. House of the Dragon is another exception, but Martin acts as one of the writers on that show, and the underlying material is very thin, since it's quasi-historical book, not a regular one. So, the situation when Hollywood agrees for original authors to decide what to do in the show is extremely rare and rather unlikely.
@@ShayGamerD3 Choosing the right production company to work with is critical. Alcon did a good job working with the book authors to keep the vision strong and help shop it to Amazon after SyFy dropped the show. I think the popular SF/Fantasy authors are taking a keen eye on this to make sure the series is successful. Definitely having the original author have an active role is critical.
Problem w/ WOT series isn't the adaptation, it's that the writers are horrible. Anything they produce is going to be garbage. I will watch S2 for the sole purpose of mocking it MST style.
I’m hoping that my absolute zero expectations for S2 will allow it to pleasantly surprise me…but I wouldn’t bet a crown on it, even if I had Mat’s luck.
P.S. so is that new Ishameal ending on E8 some lame way to get us to rewatch S1…to inflate the watch count? I had no idea that was even a thing until you mentioned it. Fain pulling his hood back to reveal himself? Seriously? Just another blatant disregard for source material and good writing in general. Time for a face palm 🤦
10:33 this is in character with Rand in TDR when he's on his own and being pursued by Fades, darkfriends and dreams. He kills women and even almost kills Egwene because be thinks she's a trap in his dream.
Im curious to find out whether they took feedback onboard for s2 or not. Yours, for example, could help them earn millions more than they otherwise would've. Let alone Sanderson and Harriet.
Nope, S2 was written and began filming before S1 dropped. S3 onwards would have all the negative feedback but it has so far been ignored and critics have been referred to as "bookcloaks".
To paraphrase your last point; this show could be great with completely different people writing and producing it. 😂 To go back to the beginning of the video, I sort-of agree with you on the "woke" criticisms. "Woke" writing is not synonymous with terrible writing, but the correlation between the two is so high it's very difficult to ignore and none of this is occuring in a vacuum. Having an ethnically diverse cast is totally fine when it makes sense in-universe, but it's (IMO rightfully) seen as a red-flag that the writers or showrunners are ideologically motivated when it doesn't. And in Emonds Field.... it doesn't make sense. Nothing about the rest of the writing contradicts that assumption in this case either. I love the description of the show as being corporate fan-fic. That sums it nicely I think. It bugs me that a studio would pick a show-runner who is clearly ideologically incompatible with the premises the books were written on though. The gendered nature of the magic system is so crucial to both the plot and characters it stuns me that they've eliminated that element. WoT is simply *not* the right project for these people.
For me, here is where what people are calling "woke" ruins the story.... IMHO, the over-arching theme of the entire book series is that men and women are equals but very different, that men have strengths women can't come close to matching, and women have strengths that men can't come close to matching, that men and women communicate differently, react differently, think differently. Yet in the end, these differences are not what divide men and women, it is what brings them together and why they need each other. And while both are equally powerful albeit in different ways, they are far, far stronger when working together! All of that theme is lost on this show! Now I also agree with your points on ethnicity, removing the cultures and diversity of cities and nations takes away the fun of traveling to new places. But I also agree with @amys0482, it doesn't completely ruin the show for me. But for me, my point above does!
@@davidpurvee9225 I couldn't agree more. Heck, the original symbol for the Aes Sedai is literally the Ying Yang symbol from Taoist philosophy; in which the hard and soft elements push or pull their opposite in unison. It's that "tension" that drives the turning of the symbol...... or in the case of the WoT universe, the wheel.
@@Golmov_the_Wretched Exactly. It is the symbol of Aes Sedai and the top theme of every interaction and event in the books! Here's a secret of life: Men wouldn't be happier "ruling" over women, nor would women be happier ruling over men. But both are happier when they understand and accept their strengths and differences, allowing them to support the other where needed, feeling useful and appreciated, while leaning on them where the other can support them, appreciating and loving them for it! And that, for me, was a key point of the books. A point loss on a show that tries to tip the scale so men are dumb and useless while women are perfect without trying or learning.
It depends on how we define "woke". My perfect example of "woke" is The Last Jedi. First, put women on pedestals... then dig trenches under the men, in order to increase the relative value/status/difference. Rey... and then basically all of the male characters in TLJ. Or to put it another way, the female characters get "buffed" while the male characters get "nerfed". So, Wheel of Time S1 is also a perfect example... but only understood by people who read the books, and have a baseline for comparison. Also, I'd call this thing more corporate h@t3-fiction than fan-fic.
I won't be watching season 2. However, i will be watching people like you talk about it. The only joy I received from season 1 was watching you and other reviewers critique it for the poorly written, poorly adapted mess it was. Keep your content coming 😆👍
I hate that they fundamentally changed the culture of The Two Rivers. It might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but it is a pretty big change, IMO, and I don't know why more book fans don't seem to care about it. Also, I think the water wheel metaphor Siuan uses in the trailer is inspired by the similar metaphor Moiraine uses to explain the power to Egwene in book 1. She tells Egwene that there's no way she could take more power than exists because the power is like a river turning a water wheel. She'll never be able to touch very much of it.
I didn't like the Two Rivers either. Minimally, there should have been a Village Council. Moiraine's metaphor works just fine. In that metaphor, Egwene is the water wheel. Moiraine is not talking about the Wheel of Time that is a metaphysical reality of this world. It's just not great writing.
I am old enough to remember the LOTR films being released, i took my son to see them and got him into fantasy. People were really angry at the changes from the source material at the time but there wasn't the same amount of social media presence to review bomb the films. I am not saying that the WOT series is the classic that the LOTR trilogy turned out to be, but i am willing to give S2 a chance without covid and actor issues. I worry that book fans raging at changes will result in producers simply staying away from fantasy adaptations moving forward.
@@tw7998 I am old enough to remember that too. I saw Fellowship in theaters. Changes like replacing Glorfindel with Arwen make sense. I still don't think the Elves should have shown up at Helm's Deep or that Legolas should have surfaced down stairs or off an elephant's trunk, but those are quibbles. Changes made to WOT are so much more egregious than that, and so unnecessary. Perrin didn't need a wife, Steppin didn't need a whole episode, Moirane shouldn't have sworn undying love to the Amyrlin on the Oathrod. Rings of Power was also awful. I will never be okay with Galadriel being slyly shipped with Sauron, even in a fake out. It's bad fanfiction.
@@amys0482 lots to cover there, i agree with you on perrins wife, but with steppin feel they established the way the warder bond works which will be important going forward as we both know. I found the oath rod scene to be odd (surely people could hear Moiraine!). As for rings of power, i grew up with Tolkien, when i saw people rage about black elves and the usual nonsense before release- i really wanted to love the show, but it was simply awful.
@@tw7998 Stepin was murdered along with his Aes Sedai twenty years before the events in this show. His being in the show is not only lore breaking, but completely unnecessary. The characters to show the warder bond with are Moiraine and Lan, and they did not really do anything with them. The oath rod scene was horrendous, for it is a clear violation of tower law to make an Aes Sedai swear loyalty to an Amyrlin. That's is grounds for deposing an Amyrlin, and it was done in full view and hearing of the Sitters.
Welcome back Amy! So sorry to hear about Cinder - hope you are doing ok. I'm glad you will be reviewing S2 as I cannot make myself invest any more time watching it. However, always interested in your take on whatever comes out. At this point, I find it hard to even call this show an adaptation. As you said, it's corporate fan fiction loosely based on an IP. I honestly don't have a problem with this - if the show runners were upfront about it. Then the audience can decide if they want to invest any time on this show. What I find so repulsive is the the blatant manipulation this team used to get their show off the ground - by selling to book fans that this is a faithful adaptation of their beloved source material then walking back (saying this show was never meant for the book fans) once the series dropped and book fans realized what was happening. Now given the show runner's background as a Survivor contestant (where manipulation is the MO for playing the game), I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by this. By the way, your take on the confusing magic system is spot on, but it is even worse than what you presented. If you recall, in the X-ray material (or whatever those short animated things were called), they clearly explained the gendered magic system - then proceeded to completely ignore it in the show. IMO, that goes beyond being unclear. It's downright self-contradictory. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to throw in elves or something into the show. After all, fantasy is fantasy right? Here's some unicorns - enjoy!
The eelfin and the aeflin are technically in the realm of elves or fey, and never explained, which I love. I do hope we get them! But yes, the animated shorts appeared to be written and approved separately from the main show. Even the script for the Old Tongue seems to be contradictory to Rafe's translation. Saidin is clearly heard and then the translation is off. What that tells me is SOME folks on the staff are doing their best to be true to the lore but are getting overwritten by Rafe. I don't want to make too many assumptions about the guy though. I don't know him. But I do hate Survivor...
It's a weird combination of show runners who want the built-in audience but absolutely do not want to make an adaptation of the actual show. Wheel of Time is oe of many (although I would argue it is one of the least faithful that absolutely broke every rule it could). You are right, there will absolutely be elves and there would be even more random love triangles, with forbidden elf love thrown in.
@@amys0482 That's true - I forgot about them. Although I'm not sure how the show is going to work them in. Given where they left Matt (and Moiraine) on the show in S1, and the non-existent explanation of the dream world, I find it difficult to imagine how they will work that out or how Matt gets his fox medallion - if he even gets it. I feel as the show goes on the plot hole are just going to get bigger and bigger. It's sad and disappointing.
I think your point a 1:45 is my biggest problem. The show could have been a decent story independent of its divergence from the source material, but to do that it would have to explain itself on its own terms, and it doesn't. I can't explain the stuff the show doesn't address because of the rest of your video before the predictions. As an example men shouldn't channel in the show for some reason, but I don't know why because I can't imagine it's the same reason as the books given what we've seen so far.
Regarding how Mat gets back in the story, remember that they are combining TGH and much of TDR into this one season. Taking that in mind, I think that Mat will recuperate in Tar Valon before meeting and beating the Princelings, then he'll overhear the plan to capture/kill the Wondergirls while he is out dicing in TV and dodging footpad assassins (Liandrin's man in North Harbor could figure in here), and will recruit Gawyn and Galad to go with him to save their sister and her friends. The three of them will travel to Falme (meeting Aludra along the way), before assist Elayne and Nynaeve in breaking Egwene out, or rescuing all the Wondergirls (a la TDR).
Agreed. Like you, I have no issues with the casting - in fact I think the casting is very good. However this show is a very YA version of Wheel of Time, they have removed the complexity of the world which we all love & instead added in the modern TV tropes. A bit more drama, more fake deaths, magical power which solves all issues instantly, etc. Trying to make WOT look like the average fantasy TV fare on CW/Sci-fi channel. Its sad, coz a bit more faithful adaptation could have been really awesome. I love the animated shorts though, those have the vibe of the books.
Amazon's Wheel of Time is not a stage from which to entertain the audience... It is a platform from which to "preach at the congregation"... and the show-runner is the "preacher" who will "lead us all to salvation".
10:00 SPOILER WARNING for non book series readers Yes, the Dark One is very evil and his followers do horrifically evil things in his service. Ishmael however is a more complicated character, and I think the show is fast forwarding his arc, as well as showing more of what the books hinted at. I don't find him to be straight up evil, so much as Chaotic-Neutral (to use D&D terms). He believes that his ends justify the means, and that his goal is neither good nor evil, but merely the best possible end to a bad situation.
The hunt for the horn will be the hunt for the dagger as loial was stabbed by the dagger and cant be healed without the dagger. It seems Perrin will become the hornblower and it seems Mat is becoming some kind of darkfriend.
I would add what I consider the biggest flaw with casting the five leads as being ethnically diverse. It means Rand doesn't stand out as being an outsider. In the show Loial suggests Rand looks like an Aiel as opposed to being from the Two Rivers, but this only makes sense if Rand's an outlier in an otherwise homogeneous group. Instead he's just a red head, traveling with four companions who look nothing like him or each other. They could all come from anywhere.
@@amys0482 Fair enough. I haven't finished the books yet, but I was under the impression that being visibly not a native Emond's Fielder was important to his story progression (convincing himself, if nothing else, of who he really is).
@@ethanhandel1001 Yes, a bit, but I think it's a story element that is optional to include for a screen adaptation that is going to have to cut a ton of content. Rand is the only red haired person in the Two Rivers, but not in Andor. He attributed this to his mother being a foreigner. She was dark haired so genetically not the right answer, but Rand didn't grow up knowing he didn't belong. His hair wasn't a big deal until the characters start encountering Aiel and notice the similarities.
Oh and another thing that is different in the TV show is Logain where he is already well on the way to madness from the taint on saidin. In the books Logain was completely sane. I wonder if they are going to switch the madness from Rand to Logain and keep Rand sane in the TV show.
Amy - Yeah but no but yeah but no ! Would a teacher who is nuts be reliable ? I half expect this TV show Logain to start giggling when people ask him a question. But yes it's possible they might make him into Asmogain. Or perhaps they might combine Logain and Mazrim Taim which would also be problematic.
It maybe that the amyrlin is on her grand tour, showing off the false dragon, and Rand could meet up with her on the road , That could explain Logain and him together
The sad part is that lots of fans will come up with perfectly good explanations and reasons and good stories based on those snippets. But then the actual show will do something much worse and will put a lot less thought into the plot building. I often wonder -- why don't the show runners (be it Wheel of Time or Rings of Power or any other) hire a few of the book fans who are super-familiar with the lore. Many of them would probably work for free/cheap and could help improve the show.
@@alexr6092 Because the objective of the show is not to produce the WoT, but do deconstruct and defile it. We are talking about an alphabet person who doesn't believe in binary genders and that masculinity is toxic being in charge of a monumental work of fiction whose entire cosmology almost entirely based around the concept of two genders working together in their natural roles complimenting one another, both needed. WoT was chosen to be defiled and reconstructed in the Alphabet image and worldview.
Except that the Amyrlin doesn't do Grand Tours. She stays in the White Tower and runs the show from there. Logain was paraded before the people by the Red Ajah as they returned with him as a prisoner on their way back to Tar Valon. In 'The Great Hunt' Book 2 the Amyrlin does go happily wandering to Fal Daree Fal Dara but that was an exception because she wanted to check out the Dragon Reborn.
As a progressive myself (but not the extreme one) I have to clarify something: when normal people say the show is woke they don't mean the show is progressive, they mean the show runners are trying to push their message at the expense of story telling. That being said the show Killing Eve is very woke, has very similar tropes as WoT but it wasn't done at the expense of the story, so the show ended up good (at least the first season). Also, Tv Animated show Arcane has very progressive ideas and has been lauded as great by the same people who accuse other shows of being woke (and it's good for the same reason Killing Eve is good - story took precedence over "the message")
"hen normal people say the show is woke they don't mean ..." - _as if_ the word "woke" has any useful meaning anymore. And I'll assert this: people with any sense of comfort with themselves don't go around shouting "woke" at others. Those who are shouting "woke" are some combination of insecure, hateful, and ignorant.
I only ever see conservatives calling anything woke and only when it is bad. Arcane wasn't called woke. Neither is Pose or any other well written show. Woke is a political dog whistle.
@@amys0482 Rafe and Amazon were more worried about diversity quotas, pushing LGBT and 'current year' feminism. All these took precedence over anything RJ wrote. It's woke.
You got it wrong in the trailer you can see that place where Rand meets Amyrlin is in Cairhien instead FalDara it is not TarValon it’s much smaller chamber , pay attention to markings on walls those are Cairhien crests, and it seems Siuan took Logain also there probably to parade him through the city as display of power . That would explain why we see Moirane with Siuan again … they all reunite in Moiraine’s hometown.
@@amys0482 yeah meeting in Cairhien is much better because it would otherwise as you say make no sense for Rand to go to TarValon, and it makes sense from the production point of view to do that encounter in Cairhien because they are kinda done with FalDara… I must add I found your reviews for the first season of WOT as well as the Rings of Powers an absolute gold, it was not only far the best and most objective review on you tube, but also informative and educational backed with lots of facts and well researched data… I really hope you will be reviewing season 2 as well cause I am really looking forward to it 😄
I'm a book fan in the middle of a re-read of the series. Got my gf into the books and we had her dad watch the first episode of season one, which he enjoyed. I didn't like the season, barring a few spots here and there where I felt it was fine, so my expectations are L O W. I'm gonna watch season two and be right here with ya for the reviews! My prediction for the magic system is it doesn't remain unexplained but will be so vague as to be unrecognizable. I also predict Loial is MIA to the point of absurdity. Also did you move? I really liked that bookshelf you had in the other videos.
My goodness. Why stab Loial with the ruby hilted dagger? It makes no sense. It completely cheapens when Rand is stabbed by the dagger and barely survives. The decision is moronic, I'm pretty sure the showrunner has never cracked the books.
@@ameliamccombs4313 So many bad choices in this show I forgot this one... that was soooo bad! And the whole reason the horn was hidden at the eye was to avoid temptation of it being used before the Last Battle, Sheinar would be the worse place to avoid this temptation!
@@ameliamccombs4313 The show-runner CLAIMS to be a fan of the books. Of course, he also tweeted that he was looking forward to ruining everything we loved about the books.
You think anyone told Amazon that they could have made this show with a different name they could have saves the licencing money and made the same thing?
@@gautamsharma8854 if it is the same show by a different name, doesn't that just mean you were tricked? also just reread the sentence I wrote up there, god bless you for being able to read it 😅
Corporate fan fiction made me laugh out loud because it is so true. I agree with so many of your points, and indeed this is not woke as I understand the term. I don’t care that such an emphasis is being placed upon this, but do care about the unnecessary muddied flowing of well, the one what?
She was a darkfriend who was part of a whole group of darkfriends and they had a Gray Man with them. They would have killed him if he hadn't killed them. Big difference between that and him choking Moiraine.
If you're gonna do a catchup before S2 launches, I implore you to watch my fan edit which trims S1 into a 4.5h film and removes a LOT of the type of inconsistencies you are pointing out here. It's just a more consistent, tighter focused story by sticking pretty close to the EF5's journey. I'm busy with a Rev 2 tweak that irons out a few rough edges and it's looking REALLY good to me.
Can I just say that on top of everything the design choices in this series continue to amaze and baffle me with how horrid they are? How do 1 inch fingernails turn into wolverine claws?
I mean after Rings of power the WoT season 1 I can't trust them. They are basically using just the names of beloved characters and twist them into their liking, they don't like the source material at all and have no plans to honor it at all.
Moraine's story is stolen from Tom this season. She is playing des de mar in Cairhien and getting in touch with her sister. Logain and Siuan are in Cairhien for some reason. Apparently they have a very good Sanitorium. Rand is in Cairhien trying to get in contact with Logain to learn how to channel. He is also working in the Sanitorium and shacking up with Selene. A Innkeeper in the poorest section of Cairhien. Egwene and Nynaeve are at the tower. Elayne is in the white tower. Perrin searches for the horn as Avi flirts with him. Gul Died in S1E3. Mat is supposedly in the Tower because he is drawn to the dagger but Fain had the dagger in Far Dara (S1E8) You should look into the leaked Avi and Perrin script. It is bad.
@@LooseTheremin you know that and I know that but the writers don't. This wasn't my prediction for the season it was what was released through the few teasers and trailers
Another thing I find a little strange and a little disturbing is this repeated trope of little girls being in danger/killed. 1) There was the scene with the Fade in Season 1 where the girl who was talking to Mat was killed. 2) Then the Seanchan damane sent a huge wave at another little girl standing alone on the beach. 3) Now this scene with Ishamael and this girl at a darkfriend gathering. 4) The trailer for Season 2 also has a scene with Perrin and a young girl who may be his sister and she will most likely be killed by Trollocs or Padan Fain. I mean, I know they want to show that it is a world full of evil and danger, but like a lot of things in the show it seems excessive and overdone.
Yes there seems to be a sinister undertone to some of the writing. Why did they give Perrin a wife and then have him accidentally kill her, particularly in such a bestial manner ? What were they trying to achieve with that ?
@@LooseTheremin Although I _really_ dislike how they do it in the show, the purpose is the same as from the books. (Albeit pulled off exceedingly poorly). Truth is, it _is_ a bestial act that sets Perrin off and starts his hateful relationship with his axe and violence. However, in the books it is when he's "goes berserk" after the Whitecloaks kill a wolf, and proceeds to kill a couple Whitecloaks. He is later _very_ apprehensive about using his axe in fear of going berserk, or giving in to the wolf inside him.
Oh Mikey ! - Well I guess I know what direction your priorities are pointing ! Edit: Amy recorded the video in a different room so she said below. Mystery solved.
I think the premise of rolling books 2 and 3 into 8 episodes of tv is laughable at best, so I have zero expectations at this point. I'd settle for Lan keeping his shirt on and not crying tbh. I will say i did not hate this trailer as much as i expected to, Rand seems to have some better energy, the weaves look better but as you said, they lie through their teeth so when it rolls out im sure it will be packed full of nonsense like S1. Time will tell!
To be fair to Rafe Judkins and his writing team, James O. Rigney submitted a very large manuscript to his editor -- and future wife -- Harriet MacDougal. She advised him to adapt that large book plan into three books. This created the confusing ending for The Eye of the World and why all three books follow the "Pursuit/Escape trope". Since books 2 & 3 were once the same book, recondensing back into a single season makes sense, especially if they plan on covering the complete 14 book story.
As always, it's a pleasure to see your thoughtful and insightful videos, and I look forward to their reviews. Personally, I hope they don't waste 2 of 6 episodes inserting fanfiction again. Really bad fanfiction. Both the Warders and the Aes Sedai have been de-mystified and not very awe-inspiring. They have to walk a real fine line with the whole gender thing too when one gender becomes a walking wacked out thermonuclear bomb if they can channel. Your comment abouts the power and gender got me thinking.......how would a female Dragon Reborn wield Callandor? Rhetorical, but fun mind candy.
I will be unsurprised if Callandor is cut from the story. I don't think we are going to get Tear at all. Season 3 is probably going to leap into the plot events of The Shadow Rising
Talking about the books one thing that has always puzzled me is why the publishers never produced a properly edited and abridged edition of the books in WoT ? They would have made a fortune all over again. It's odd.
Probably contracts. I like its length, though. It's bloated in places. I could do with fewer random POV characters, but I like the story until Sanderson takes over. Grateful to him, but Memory of Light is a mess of a book.
@@amys0482 I think I understand why my opinion of the show is so different from yours. Memory of Light is in my top 3 favorites of the series. I love how chaotic and action packed it was. It's why I loved episode 4 so much even though it didn't follow the books at it. Episode 4 was exciting and it felt the most like the books to me, even though none of it happened in the books.
Amy - Yes Sanderson's last three books were a hell of a lot better than nothing but I missed Robert Jordan's "voice". Sanderson messed up Mat ( although his Mat wasn't terrible ) and he messed up Min ( and his Min was terrible ) and he couldn't get close to Jordan's deft touch with humour.
I probably read the series a dozen times, i used to do a re-read every time a new book came out. I had mixed feelings about S1, but i felt better about it than you did to be honest and also enjoyed it more on a rewatch. I was very happy with the portrayal of logain for example. As for S2, i watched the first scene of S2 and it was a pretty good homage to the Bors scene, i am hopeful. Finally those criticising the writing or pacing, i can understand. Those angry because of the colour of characters or 'wokism'? i have no understanding of at all.
I like seeing more of Logain. Not everything the show has done differently from the books has been bad but there were some pretty bad calls that distract from what they get right.
@@amys0482 there have definitely been issues with the writing i agree. A lot of the problems are related to the limited episodes available to tell the story however. Take S1E4 for example. It didn't stick to the story faithfully, however- In that episode in under an hour they explained the importance of the warder bond, explained the relative strength of men in the power, explained the nature of the ajahs. demonstrated the madness, and further developed the best relationship in the story. In short very efficient explanation of the world to the audience. I do think the show had issues but it isnt the disaster that ring of power was.
Two Rivers should have been a homogenous place. Don't care what color or race they were, but they it should have been consistent with an area that's been mostly isolated for centuries (I think that's still true in the show). Game of Thrones did diverse casting well, Wheel of Time did it in the most lazy way possible. Also, I know this is just a tiny example in a grand scheme of things, but Mat's parents (particularly his father) characters will never recover. Nor will the rest of Emond's field population for allowing Abel's behavior to continue in full public view. I am glad you liked the show, but I don't know how to reconcile it with the books.
@@alexr6092 I do understand the book theme of the two rivers being untouched for a long time but the cultural state of the two rivers is a small thing for me personally. The two rivers in book 1 is a rip off of the shire if we are being honest. If totally honest while i love WOT, book 1 was a homage to LOTR. The capabilities of those being cast is far more important and for me the actress playing nynaeve has nailed it. In fact i think that while the writing has its issues the actors have done a good job with the material presented to them.
Ah Amy you are back ! Glad to see you have reviewed this trailer and that you plan to review season two as well as your comments are intelligent, insightful and well articulated. As a type of conservative though I often don't agree with your politics. I have read ( listened to ) the fourteen books three times so I have a pretty good working knowledge of them. I thought season one was awful. You covered a lot of the points yourself so this won't be anything new to you. Aging up Rand, Mat, Perrin and Egwene just ruined them right from the start. Playing "Who's the Dragon !?" was idiotic and Woke. Refusing to acknowledge the male/female sides of the power ( Woke ). Making Moiraine the main character instead of Rand ( Woke ). Taking big moments away from the boys and giving them to the girls ( Woke ) and on and on. The first two episodes were poorly done but at least had some connection to the books but after that they pretty much ignored the books and wasted six of the eight hours they had to work with peddling their own agenda. Unbelievable ! When I say Woke I suppose I'm using my own understanding of that word. I don't connect it to the Black movement at all. To me it's all about pushing Fourth Wave Feminism, Social Justice and LGBTQHIA issues. For instance the Damane wear "gags" instead of collars and leashes to symbolize their voices being silenced ( and btw has anyone seen a Sul'dam ? ). Moiraine was shielded/stilled at the end of season one by Ishamael, or in other words she was disempowered by a male. It's obvious what the priority is in the writing ( striking a blow against the Patriarchy ). Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is just a scaffold that they can hang their ideology on. I can't tell much from the trailer except that it seems to be more of the same. But I'll watch season two anyway so I can keep criticising it !
yay your back. ready for your analysis of what is shaping up to be as you say. a trash season 2. in just the trailer and 3 min thing they have mashed so much more important stuff. This is insane. and what makes me sad is. this was likely the only shot we will ever have to have an adaptation of these books in our lifetime. :( p.s. i have raged at the concept of woke and its use for the last 6 years. ive yelled at friends of mine for using a word which i think is solely the purview of morons. That being said. i think you are echoing my thoughts that the WoT tv show might in fact be the only thing im willing to call woke garbage.you are saying it in a slightly different way then me. but i think we are on the same track if calling it different. i consider it woke not for the racial changes. that im perfectly ok with. nor the LGBT abundance. that im ok with as welll. But more for taking a story that is already very fair and balanced between the sexes. surprisingly so for the time it was written in. and yet. Rafe somehow decided that the balance between the sexes wasnt good and instead removed core parts of what makes the story tick for what seems like awful reasons.. you dont call it woke. i hate using the word woke. whatever term we use. i think it = garbage p.s. wtf. the trollocs like being petted. like what. p.p.s. at least we have house of the dragon season 2 to look forward to for good tv.
Zarek - Yes it seems clear that Rafe Judkins the Betrayer of Hope will stop at nothing so I too wouldn't put it past him. It looks like he's going to have some kinky rough sex thing going on between Rand and Moiraine as well, in some kind of dungeon !
Nynaeve is very violent in the books. In book 1 she attacks Aginor with a dagger. In book 3 she punches one of the Black Ajah in the face then backhands another. In book 4 she throws the male a'dam at Moghedien and hits her right in the face. In book 5 she grabs Cerandin and shakes her, then gets a black eye after they have a fight. She also gets into a fist fight with Siuan at some point. She even kicks Mat in the butt when he comes to Salidar.
I don't remember Nyneave knifing anyone so would have to look that up. I do remember her waxing on about men with swords and hating war. But, yes, she fights like a cat when cornered and has a stubborn ferocious streak. She is pro self defense. I would object if she took up the Way of the Leaf like Perrin does in Season 1. That's not what I mean by nonviolent. Nyneave believes in freedom, self defense, and justice, which in her book can include violence. But I don't want to see her carry a sword.
Nynaeve from the books is bad tempered, bossy and definitely a hitter, but she isn't "very violent". Even Lan isn't "very violent", although violence is his business it is measured. Trollocs now, they are very violent !
I have read the book series twice, and I hate the show. I don't think literature should be vandalized. The argument that some people think the show is too "woke", is interesting. I think it is almost funny, because I thought the books were fairly woke. They are full of girl bosses and Mary Sues who can do anything, who can beat up a group of thugs on a city street without using magic, blah blah blah and that is before we even get to Cadsuane. Hero's and villains alike are represented by males and females and different cultures throughout the saga. There was room for diverse casting and pushing their standard feminist girl boss story while still staying true to the books. But they had to go even farther. In a society that is already a matriarchy and the only thing men have is the dragon, they have to take that too. Perhaps the best male counterbalance to a female dominated story was Matt, who is almost universally a beloved character by male and female readers alike. They had to utterly destroy him. And what we are left with is an incoherent, dumpster fire that is so singularly focused on diversity in a story that didn't need it, that it isn't concerned with plot, likeable characters or being the least bit entertaining. It never ceases to amaze me how dense these people are. All they have to do is tell a story as it is and they will have success with the already built in fan base and draw more satisfied viewers who learn why the wheel of time had a fan base to begin with. But their sheer ego won't let them do the easy thing and allow the original author to do the majority of the story telling, oh no. Every one of them thinks they are a better storyteller than Robert Jordan, Andrzej Sapkowski, or J.R. Tolkien. Case in point, Harry Potter and Game of Thrones (the first 4 seaons). Everyone loves them. Writers closely followed the books.
Milly of the CataCombs - Well said ! It's obvious that Rafe Judkins the Betrayer of Hope and his gang of so-called writers ( Woke hacks ) had no intention of doing a faithful adaptation of Robert Jordan's WoT. Just the opposite as it seems to me they have deliberately set out to annoy the book fans at every opportunity. They should all be sent to the Mistress of Novices so she can spank their bottoms ! Mind you half of them would probably enjoy it !
"Adaptations" - maybe we should revisit the meaning of that word. Of course Amazon's WoT show _is an adaptation_ of Jordan's work. To say it is not an adaptation is a bit absurd. You may not like this particular adaptation, but that does not mean it is not an adaptation.
That reminds me of a Goon Show line read out by the Announcer - " Adapted for radio by putting it onto a piece of wood and banging a few nails through it. "
An adaptation is an adaptation from one medium (book) to another medium (screen) of storytelling. An adaptation is not an excuse to just change whatever you want. A real adaptation will keep the themes, messages, characters, worldview, worldbuilding, etc IN TACT. Peter Jackson's LotR films made major changes from the books and a couple of the characters, many of which I do not agree with. However, the world on the screen was still very much ME of the books. The message and themes Tolkien wrote and portrayed were very present. That is an adaptation. Rafeland does NOT do this, in fact it goes out of its way to piss on Randland and insult it. It is not an adaptation, it is a post-modern deliberate and spiteful deconstruction of RJ's themes and core message and worldview, twisting it in a remake for a post-modern regressive and mentally unstable audience to seal clap to.
I am strongly going for a natural disaster to completely wipe out all remnants of this show before it airs and have amazon cancel all future plans... at least that way it has a chance of being remade properly in the future! Otherwise this show will so taint the WOT name that it will be unmarketable for all time!
I'm not that hardlined against it. The show has gotten more people into the books and it's enjoyable sometimes. I just wish I only had quibbles with it based on preferences rather than deep disagreements with the fundamental themes. Like, I wish I could spend my time whining that Lanfear isn't wearing white.
@@amys0482 Thanks for your reply, long time watcher of your channel! I respect what you say. It's certainly where I was after the first few shows... But they have fundamentally lost all remnants of the original source. Matt and Perrin aren't even shadows of themselves, they are completely destroyed characters! Others aren't any better. There is no development of characters or story, no explanation of how magic works, what societies are about, or even a decent explanation on the lore of the dragon. I knew more about the world of WOT listening to the peddler and gleeman in the first 4 chapters than anyone would watching the entire 1st season of that abomination of a show. All explanations and story build was skipped to add in scenes that never existed and only take away from the story. As a faithful reader who is on my 4th "reading" (audiobooks at the moment), this show ruins the story I so love. But even worse, for the viewer who knows nothing of the source material, this show is very poorly told and serves to only lose their interest! I predict a HUGE plunge in ratings this season! Yet, I will be there, fingers crossed, hoping I finally see the adaption the WOT fans deserve!
@@stevenstewart1033 It's a challenging story to adapt. I find I am bored or confused watching the Witcher the first time through and enjoy more on a rewatch. Like I am rewatching season 2 and although I don't like it as well as season 1, it is somehow better when I have some idea of where the story is heading. Like... there are too many mysteries and not enough immediate tension a lot of the time. It would help to know that Ciri is the chosen one character. It would help to understand how Chaos and Destiny work in this world.
@@amys0482 @amys0482 The first season was very hard to follow but was more a set of adventure stories that fundamentally fed into a larger story, and it was well done for it. Season 2 was not bad, but it was not to the same quality as season 1, but again, i got through the whole season and was ok with it. "Never read the books" season 3, on the other hand i can't really put my finger on it other then to say if any of the main cast died im not sure i would notice or care and thats not a good thing for a show.
@@amys0482 A person doesn't have to read the books to understand terrible adaptations. At the end of the day they want the series to be judged by for what they are and they are just bad.
I think it's spite. The showrunner is gay, for transrighs, etc. Robert Jordan was right wing, conservative, Christian. The creator makes no mistakes. The only trans character in his series was a disgusting pervert. Robert Jordan was on messageboards up until his death being very open on his opinions of the LGBT community and those opinions were negative. So, I think a lot of these decisions were made to literally piss on his grave. To yank the story away. Iconoclasm.
I am not aware of RJ being in the OSC camp. WOT has quite a few pillow friends. It didn't seem hateful to me, but I didn't follow the message boards. I am fine with adding more explicit LGBTQ characters.
@@amys0482 True, I'm not against it either. However, after hearing interviews with the producer, they begin to sound a lot like the statements made by, say The Witcher writers. 'We don't read these book so we arent tainted by Robert Jordan's vision. We prefer to tell a more modern story for a modern audience'. Yadda yadda yadda. And all the core audience, the people they SHOULD be aiming for, readers, want is a good adaptation. TO share something they read with people that don't read books. Same thing happened with Rings of Power. It really does come off as...at the very least arrogant. None of these writers have written a best selling novel or even produced a decent episode of television.
@@jaredouimette1 jordan wasnt relly right wing.. anything beyond extreme left is " right wing".. soon this era left wing extreme is gonna be right wing to. lgbtq people woke muppets will soon fight the right to rape rats.. and if your aginst it your a bigot
@@wheelofwokesellouts3900 Left and right have standard definitions in political science. XKCD has a nice visualization of it through 2012 and it has only gotten worse since then. www.google.com/search?q=xkcd+political+parties&oq=XKCD+political&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIICAIQABgWGB4yCggDEAAYDxgWGB4yCggEEAAYhgMYigXSAQg5OTQzajBqNKgCALACAA&client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=jhO164pG4lpS5M&vssid=l
@@jaredouimette1 Any adaptation is called an adaptation for a reason: it _changes_ the original. That is the whole purpose. A TV show is not a series of novels. And, you seem to think that an adaptation has to stick religiously to some aspect of the author's own characterological biases. Why? If Jordan was the ugly person (from your description - I do not know if it is true) why should a scriptwriter feel compelled to stick with that?
The end of season 1 was so bad lol, giant tsunami for one person. The hidden preview they added to the end now isn't bad on its own, but once you contextualize it with the tone and missteps that the showrunner and writers have made overall, it does start to feel kind of cringe. The woke issue is that while you can iterate in ways that are more progressive, there are many cases where production can get so hyperfixated on their version of it that everything else goes by the wayside, including coherency in the story. The connotation for woke these days is negative... it is used to describe when people think someone believes themself to be more aware and progressive than they actually are. So in this case Wheel of Time does qualify as woke to many. Trying to push what it believes are correct progressive ideals, but doing so in such unintuitive and contradictory ways. Ultimately hurting the message for social progress instead of helping it. Great video over all, and hope you're doing well!
Woke was stolen from Black Americans. The history goes back further than the recent hijacking. It is now a brazen political platform for conservstive pundits to decry the "dangers" of political reform and social justice. It has no place in reviews of entertaiment and is only invoked to rile voters to vote for conservative dipshits who are actively legislating away rights for LGBTQ people, banning books, making it a firable offense to teach the history of slavery or sex education, etc. You can't talk about Woke without this context. The WOT TV show may be trying too hard to be progressive, but I just wouldn't call it woke.
@@amys0482 No books are banned. If you're talking about books like "This Book is Gay" parents are opposed to books that contain explicitly sexual material (including instruction on how to use gay hookup apps) being in school libraries available to 14 year olds. You can still buy them anywhere, you just can't have them in school libraries. You'll notice that progressives never actually read from the books that they claim are being "banned" because that would give the entire game away. People would actually realize why parents don't want those books in schools. A teacher was actually pushing that book on children in her class, and ended up quitting when she was investigated for doing so. Small wonder there is suspicion that "woke" educators are trying to groom children for sexual abuse. Banning drag shows for children is not "legislating away rights for LGBTQ people". Unless, of course, you think LGBTQ people want children going to drag shows. Or that drag is innately LGBTQ. Google "Drag queen performs lap dance on student and gyrates in front of cheering children at Pride event for high schoolers in North Carolina" Teaching people to hate white people (as we saw with the tragic suicide of Richard Bilkszto) hounded to death by the woke mob (Richard was a progressive, gay, teacher and principal) is not teaching the "history of slavery".
@@amys0482 I understand your POV, just saying it holds a different mainstream connotation now because it was actually the left trying to make it a trend again, but being so misguided in the use of it that the right turned it into a meme against the left. I would be careful saying it is ONLY invoked for the reasons you listed, I just think imo it's much more widespread in usage than that at this point. Like imagine this is 10 years ago, or whenever the exact period was that woke started becoming a fad on social media... Now imagine if the WOT showrunner and writers released this show then, and were patting themselves on the back and claiming they are really woke and the people that don't like the show are all bigots. That's basically similar to how woke started trending again, its misuse, which in turn made it easy to use as ammunition from the right towards the left. And I know this can all seem like I'm trying to get political and tear down the left, but I myself am progressive, I just hate watching certain missteps that I know will set things back, and then watching conservatives maximize the damage from those missteps.
I don't believe Wheel of Time is on par with modern fantasy, even with some of Brandon Sanderson's books (not talking about his books in WoT). The series has more than 30 years and it shows. It's very simplified and naïve, first book essentially plagiarizes Tolkien, the view of the world is very black and white. Therefore, I think Amazon ultimately made a mistake deciding to adapt those books as a TV series. George R.R. Martin's the Song of Ice and Fire is much more pertinent and realistic than anything in Wheel of Time, and that's why HBO had a great success with Game of Thrones (until they had Martin's material), and House of the Dragon. In a result, Amazon doesn't really know what to do with the material they have, it's not progressive enough for them, but also it's very generic and shallow. If they wanted real feminist fantasy, there is plenty of it, like Kameron Hurley's Worldbreaker Saga, which is very modern and original, very far from generic fantasy Jordan wrote. Amazon has/had the same problem with Tolkien, hence Rings of Power, which was a total dud, what even mainstream media admit now. That's what you get when you try to adapt the prose written by a fundamentalist Catholic writer (if not outright alt-right) and make it into feminist manifesto. I think it's time for Hollywood to abandon old and outdated IPs, and use all the wonderful worlds fantasy writers created in this century.
I don't agree that Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is "very simplified and naive" at all. On the contrary it goes into a number of themes in great depth and detail. The relationships between the sexes and the nature of warfare and the emotional trauma it causes to the combatants for example. Jordan isn't afraid to present a warts and all depiction of most of his characters from the good to the downright evil and everything in between and it's brave and refreshing. As for George Martin's Song of Ice and Fire I thought the first book was beautifully written and the next two were pretty good as well. In the next two books though the uncompleted series was driven into a ditch. Also the themes of ASOIAF were unrelievedly bleak and depressing. Sure the TV show was spectacular to watch. Just the locations and of course the dragons plus a top notch cast ( apart from a number of the younger actors ) made it compelling viewing but it always left me emotionally " Down at the bottom of the well ". Robert Jordan's WoT isn't perfect by any means. Technically he wasn't what you would call a great writer of prose but he had his own authentic style. And he should have done time for the amount of filler he slathered into the series, that was a crime against humanity ! But overall I much prefer Robert Jordan's WoT to George Martin's ASOIAF.
@@LooseTheremin Obviously every opinion is subjective. I mainly think that his worldbuilding is simplified and naïve. Martin's worldbuilding has also its issues, his world is impossible, with one inhabited continent, and the rest is empty. But the particular locations, history of his world, characters, are based on the war of the Roses and generally de Normandie and Plantagenet history of England, sometimes totally copied. In a result, they are somewhat realistic and believable. The evil in Jordan's books is very generic, impossibly powerful force with no limits to their power, number of armies they command, etc. They have no real aims or goals, just destroy everything. Like in Tolkien's books (who, to his defense, was writing 50 years earlier during WWII). That's a very naïve worldbuilding. The show obviously doesn't know what to do with that, just has hundreds of CGI generated enemies, which is unintentionally funny. In Martin's books all characters have motivations, goals, backstory, we understand why they're doing something. Modern fantasy usually aims at showing characters in more nuanced way, where even villains can be understood, have motivations, and have own limitations. Jordan's fantasy is more akin to Tolkien's simplified worldview, than to modern fantasy.
@@ShayGamerD3 I don't agree with you. Jordan packed his saga with real history and combat experience. The politics are also realistic. His concept of evil is ultimately that it is empty and shallow. The Chosen are narcissistic and emotionally immature villains who dream of glory. I actually find them to be fairly realistic. Some aspects of the story are simplistic but WOT is much more rereadable to me than ASOIAF.
ShyGamer - You make some good points. But the things you criticise in WoT are the things I tend to like it for. To boil it down WoT has heart and soul where ASOIAF has blood and guts.
I disagree. I think Jordan was easily sidetracked as a writer and long winded. But his overall saga was a great story that I think would make an excellent (long) television adaptation if told faithfully. Obviously no one could develop all his characters and plot lines in the length of a movie, or even a trilogy.
The show was a good warning signal to existing fantasy authors who want to pursue adaptations. I believe Pierce Brown and Sanderson are taking more of an ownership role in their TV productions to prevent a show runner or production vastly overriding the original vision
Well, Robert Jordan's wife fought it and Robert Jordan himself was dead before they even started production
@@jaredouimette1 Yeah, I am not sure of the details of that
Brandon Sanderson spoke extensively, although somewhat vaguely (I guess because of NDAs and such), about his involvement in the Wheel of Time series. He was hired as a consultant, at least officially. He confirmed, though, that he was totally sidelined by shows creators, and they made many decisions against his advice. So, Sanderson acted as a representative of Jordan's estate, but was ignored. That's said, Expanse was the only TV show where original authors had something to say in recent years, ironically, also produced by Amazon at some point. All other IPs were purchased and original authors remained only as consultants, or were totally ignored, sometimes because they wanted so (this is the situation with Netflix' Witcher). Hollywood studios do not want original authors controlling the content they make. House of the Dragon is another exception, but Martin acts as one of the writers on that show, and the underlying material is very thin, since it's quasi-historical book, not a regular one. So, the situation when Hollywood agrees for original authors to decide what to do in the show is extremely rare and rather unlikely.
@@ShayGamerD3 Choosing the right production company to work with is critical. Alcon did a good job working with the book authors to keep the vision strong and help shop it to Amazon after SyFy dropped the show. I think the popular SF/Fantasy authors are taking a keen eye on this to make sure the series is successful. Definitely having the original author have an active role is critical.
Problem w/ WOT series isn't the adaptation, it's that the writers are horrible. Anything they produce is going to be garbage. I will watch S2 for the sole purpose of mocking it MST style.
I’m hoping that my absolute zero expectations for S2 will allow it to pleasantly surprise me…but I wouldn’t bet a crown on it, even if I had Mat’s luck.
P.S. so is that new Ishameal ending on E8 some lame way to get us to rewatch S1…to inflate the watch count? I had no idea that was even a thing until you mentioned it. Fain pulling his hood back to reveal himself? Seriously? Just another blatant disregard for source material and good writing in general. Time for a face palm 🤦
Very possibly!
15:45 Rand doesn't go to Tar Valon in the S2 trailer, that's Cairhien. Check out the Rising Sun motif in the background behind Suian.
10:33 this is in character with Rand in TDR when he's on his own and being pursued by Fades, darkfriends and dreams. He kills women and even almost kills Egwene because be thinks she's a trap in his dream.
In the show Nynaeve is a commando, warrior, tracker, trolloc slayer. And Rand, Matt, and Perrin are cowards....
Amy you are one of my guinea pigs. I'm looking forward to your reviews to determine whether I'm going to take the time to actually watch this show.
I can provide that service
Im curious to find out whether they took feedback onboard for s2 or not. Yours, for example, could help them earn millions more than they otherwise would've.
Let alone Sanderson and Harriet.
Nope, S2 was written and began filming before S1 dropped. S3 onwards would have all the negative feedback but it has so far been ignored and critics have been referred to as "bookcloaks".
To paraphrase your last point; this show could be great with completely different people writing and producing it. 😂
To go back to the beginning of the video, I sort-of agree with you on the "woke" criticisms. "Woke" writing is not synonymous with terrible writing, but the correlation between the two is so high it's very difficult to ignore and none of this is occuring in a vacuum. Having an ethnically diverse cast is totally fine when it makes sense in-universe, but it's (IMO rightfully) seen as a red-flag that the writers or showrunners are ideologically motivated when it doesn't. And in Emonds Field.... it doesn't make sense. Nothing about the rest of the writing contradicts that assumption in this case either.
I love the description of the show as being corporate fan-fic. That sums it nicely I think. It bugs me that a studio would pick a show-runner who is clearly ideologically incompatible with the premises the books were written on though. The gendered nature of the magic system is so crucial to both the plot and characters it stuns me that they've eliminated that element. WoT is simply *not* the right project for these people.
For me, here is where what people are calling "woke" ruins the story.... IMHO, the over-arching theme of the entire book series is that men and women are equals but very different, that men have strengths women can't come close to matching, and women have strengths that men can't come close to matching, that men and women communicate differently, react differently, think differently. Yet in the end, these differences are not what divide men and women, it is what brings them together and why they need each other. And while both are equally powerful albeit in different ways, they are far, far stronger when working together!
All of that theme is lost on this show! Now I also agree with your points on ethnicity, removing the cultures and diversity of cities and nations takes away the fun of traveling to new places. But I also agree with @amys0482, it doesn't completely ruin the show for me. But for me, my point above does!
@@davidpurvee9225 I couldn't agree more. Heck, the original symbol for the Aes Sedai is literally the Ying Yang symbol from Taoist philosophy; in which the hard and soft elements push or pull their opposite in unison. It's that "tension" that drives the turning of the symbol...... or in the case of the WoT universe, the wheel.
@@Golmov_the_Wretched Exactly. It is the symbol of Aes Sedai and the top theme of every interaction and event in the books!
Here's a secret of life: Men wouldn't be happier "ruling" over women, nor would women be happier ruling over men. But both are happier when they understand and accept their strengths and differences, allowing them to support the other where needed, feeling useful and appreciated, while leaning on them where the other can support them, appreciating and loving them for it! And that, for me, was a key point of the books. A point loss on a show that tries to tip the scale so men are dumb and useless while women are perfect without trying or learning.
It depends on how we define "woke".
My perfect example of "woke" is The Last Jedi.
First, put women on pedestals... then dig trenches under the men, in order to increase the relative value/status/difference.
Rey... and then basically all of the male characters in TLJ.
Or to put it another way, the female characters get "buffed" while the male characters get "nerfed".
So, Wheel of Time S1 is also a perfect example... but only understood by people who read the books, and have a baseline for comparison.
Also, I'd call this thing more corporate h@t3-fiction than fan-fic.
I won't be watching season 2. However, i will be watching people like you talk about it. The only joy I received from season 1 was watching you and other reviewers critique it for the poorly written, poorly adapted mess it was. Keep your content coming 😆👍
I hate that they fundamentally changed the culture of The Two Rivers. It might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but it is a pretty big change, IMO, and I don't know why more book fans don't seem to care about it.
Also, I think the water wheel metaphor Siuan uses in the trailer is inspired by the similar metaphor Moiraine uses to explain the power to Egwene in book 1. She tells Egwene that there's no way she could take more power than exists because the power is like a river turning a water wheel. She'll never be able to touch very much of it.
I didn't like the Two Rivers either. Minimally, there should have been a Village Council.
Moiraine's metaphor works just fine. In that metaphor, Egwene is the water wheel. Moiraine is not talking about the Wheel of Time that is a metaphysical reality of this world.
It's just not great writing.
I am old enough to remember the LOTR films being released, i took my son to see them and got him into fantasy. People were really angry at the changes from the source material at the time but there wasn't the same amount of social media presence to review bomb the films. I am not saying that the WOT series is the classic that the LOTR trilogy turned out to be, but i am willing to give S2 a chance without covid and actor issues. I worry that book fans raging at changes will result in producers simply staying away from fantasy adaptations moving forward.
@@tw7998 I am old enough to remember that too. I saw Fellowship in theaters. Changes like replacing Glorfindel with Arwen make sense. I still don't think the Elves should have shown up at Helm's Deep or that Legolas should have surfaced down stairs or off an elephant's trunk, but those are quibbles. Changes made to WOT are so much more egregious than that, and so unnecessary. Perrin didn't need a wife, Steppin didn't need a whole episode, Moirane shouldn't have sworn undying love to the Amyrlin on the Oathrod. Rings of Power was also awful. I will never be okay with Galadriel being slyly shipped with Sauron, even in a fake out. It's bad fanfiction.
@@amys0482 lots to cover there, i agree with you on perrins wife, but with steppin feel they established the way the warder bond works which will be important going forward as we both know. I found the oath rod scene to be odd (surely people could hear Moiraine!). As for rings of power, i grew up with Tolkien, when i saw people rage about black elves and the usual nonsense before release- i really wanted to love the show, but it was simply awful.
@@tw7998 Stepin was murdered along with his Aes Sedai twenty years before the events in this show. His being in the show is not only lore breaking, but completely unnecessary. The characters to show the warder bond with are Moiraine and Lan, and they did not really do anything with them.
The oath rod scene was horrendous, for it is a clear violation of tower law to make an Aes Sedai swear loyalty to an Amyrlin. That's is grounds for deposing an Amyrlin, and it was done in full view and hearing of the Sitters.
Welcome back Amy! So sorry to hear about Cinder - hope you are doing ok.
I'm glad you will be reviewing S2 as I cannot make myself invest any more time watching it. However, always interested in your take on whatever comes out. At this point, I find it hard to even call this show an adaptation. As you said, it's corporate fan fiction loosely based on an IP. I honestly don't have a problem with this - if the show runners were upfront about it. Then the audience can decide if they want to invest any time on this show. What I find so repulsive is the the blatant manipulation this team used to get their show off the ground - by selling to book fans that this is a faithful adaptation of their beloved source material then walking back (saying this show was never meant for the book fans) once the series dropped and book fans realized what was happening. Now given the show runner's background as a Survivor contestant (where manipulation is the MO for playing the game), I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by this. By the way, your take on the confusing magic system is spot on, but it is even worse than what you presented. If you recall, in the X-ray material (or whatever those short animated things were called), they clearly explained the gendered magic system - then proceeded to completely ignore it in the show. IMO, that goes beyond being unclear. It's downright self-contradictory. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to throw in elves or something into the show. After all, fantasy is fantasy right? Here's some unicorns - enjoy!
The eelfin and the aeflin are technically in the realm of elves or fey, and never explained, which I love. I do hope we get them!
But yes, the animated shorts appeared to be written and approved separately from the main show. Even the script for the Old Tongue seems to be contradictory to Rafe's translation. Saidin is clearly heard and then the translation is off. What that tells me is SOME folks on the staff are doing their best to be true to the lore but are getting overwritten by Rafe. I don't want to make too many assumptions about the guy though. I don't know him. But I do hate Survivor...
It's a weird combination of show runners who want the built-in audience but absolutely do not want to make an adaptation of the actual show. Wheel of Time is oe of many (although I would argue it is one of the least faithful that absolutely broke every rule it could).
You are right, there will absolutely be elves and there would be even more random love triangles, with forbidden elf love thrown in.
@@amys0482 That's true - I forgot about them. Although I'm not sure how the show is going to work them in. Given where they left Matt (and Moiraine) on the show in S1, and the non-existent explanation of the dream world, I find it difficult to imagine how they will work that out or how Matt gets his fox medallion - if he even gets it. I feel as the show goes on the plot hole are just going to get bigger and bigger. It's sad and disappointing.
@@mickypea1 It wont be this season if they do. I suspect Season 3 will be some version of the Shadow Rising.
I think your point a 1:45 is my biggest problem. The show could have been a decent story independent of its divergence from the source material, but to do that it would have to explain itself on its own terms, and it doesn't. I can't explain the stuff the show doesn't address because of the rest of your video before the predictions. As an example men shouldn't channel in the show for some reason, but I don't know why because I can't imagine it's the same reason as the books given what we've seen so far.
Regarding how Mat gets back in the story, remember that they are combining TGH and much of TDR into this one season. Taking that in mind, I think that Mat will recuperate in Tar Valon before meeting and beating the Princelings, then he'll overhear the plan to capture/kill the Wondergirls while he is out dicing in TV and dodging footpad assassins (Liandrin's man in North Harbor could figure in here), and will recruit Gawyn and Galad to go with him to save their sister and her friends. The three of them will travel to Falme (meeting Aludra along the way), before assist Elayne and Nynaeve in breaking Egwene out, or rescuing all the Wondergirls (a la TDR).
Agreed. Like you, I have no issues with the casting - in fact I think the casting is very good. However this show is a very YA version of Wheel of Time, they have removed the complexity of the world which we all love & instead added in the modern TV tropes. A bit more drama, more fake deaths, magical power which solves all issues instantly, etc. Trying to make WOT look like the average fantasy TV fare on CW/Sci-fi channel.
Its sad, coz a bit more faithful adaptation could have been really awesome. I love the animated shorts though, those have the vibe of the books.
Even YA shouldn't do that. It gets a pass for inferior writing, but it shouldn't.
@@amys0482 The first scene in S2 has dialogue lifted directly from the books?
"Magical power which solves all issues instantly" if you're a woman.
Amazon's Wheel of Time is not a stage from which to entertain the audience...
It is a platform from which to "preach at the congregation"... and the show-runner is the "preacher" who will "lead us all to salvation".
10:00
SPOILER WARNING for non book series readers
Yes, the Dark One is very evil and his followers do horrifically evil things in his service.
Ishmael however is a more complicated character, and I think the show is fast forwarding his arc, as well as showing more of what the books hinted at. I don't find him to be straight up evil, so much as Chaotic-Neutral (to use D&D terms). He believes that his ends justify the means, and that his goal is neither good nor evil, but merely the best possible end to a bad situation.
The hunt for the horn will be the hunt for the dagger as loial was stabbed by the dagger and cant be healed without the dagger.
It seems Perrin will become the hornblower and it seems Mat is becoming some kind of darkfriend.
I would add what I consider the biggest flaw with casting the five leads as being ethnically diverse. It means Rand doesn't stand out as being an outsider.
In the show Loial suggests Rand looks like an Aiel as opposed to being from the Two Rivers, but this only makes sense if Rand's an outlier in an otherwise homogeneous group. Instead he's just a red head, traveling with four companions who look nothing like him or each other. They could all come from anywhere.
Yes, but Rand is also Andoran and Emond's Field is in Andor so I don't think it's that critical that he stands out that much.
@@amys0482 Fair enough. I haven't finished the books yet, but I was under the impression that being visibly not a native Emond's Fielder was important to his story progression (convincing himself, if nothing else, of who he really is).
@@ethanhandel1001 Yes, a bit, but I think it's a story element that is optional to include for a screen adaptation that is going to have to cut a ton of content. Rand is the only red haired person in the Two Rivers, but not in Andor. He attributed this to his mother being a foreigner. She was dark haired so genetically not the right answer, but Rand didn't grow up knowing he didn't belong. His hair wasn't a big deal until the characters start encountering Aiel and notice the similarities.
@@amys0482 Got it, that makes sense.
@@amys0482 Except The Two Rivers is not like the rest of Andor. They are the blood of Manetheren. Which is also a plot point.
Welcome back
Oh and another thing that is different in the TV show is Logain where he is already well on the way to madness from the taint on saidin. In the books Logain was completely sane. I wonder if they are going to switch the madness from Rand to Logain and keep Rand sane in the TV show.
He might replace Asmodean as teacher and then they'll kill him off
Amy - Yeah but no but yeah but no ! Would a teacher who is nuts be reliable ? I half expect this TV show Logain to start giggling when people ask him a question. But yes it's possible they might make him into Asmogain. Or perhaps they might combine Logain and Mazrim Taim which would also be problematic.
It maybe that the amyrlin is on her grand tour, showing off the false dragon, and Rand could meet up with her on the road , That could explain Logain and him together
Someone else pointed out that it might be Cairhien
The sad part is that lots of fans will come up with perfectly good explanations and reasons and good stories based on those snippets. But then the actual show will do something much worse and will put a lot less thought into the plot building.
I often wonder -- why don't the show runners (be it Wheel of Time or Rings of Power or any other) hire a few of the book fans who are super-familiar with the lore. Many of them would probably work for free/cheap and could help improve the show.
@@alexr6092 Because the objective of the show is not to produce the WoT, but do deconstruct and defile it. We are talking about an alphabet person who doesn't believe in binary genders and that masculinity is toxic being in charge of a monumental work of fiction whose entire cosmology almost entirely based around the concept of two genders working together in their natural roles complimenting one another, both needed. WoT was chosen to be defiled and reconstructed in the Alphabet image and worldview.
nathanmorgan - Well said !
Except that the Amyrlin doesn't do Grand Tours. She stays in the White Tower and runs the show from there. Logain was paraded before the people by the Red Ajah as they returned with him as a prisoner on their way back to Tar Valon.
In 'The Great Hunt' Book 2 the Amyrlin does go happily wandering to Fal Daree Fal Dara but that was an exception because she wanted to check out the Dragon Reborn.
As a progressive myself (but not the extreme one) I have to clarify something: when normal people say the show is woke they don't mean the show is progressive, they mean the show runners are trying to push their message at the expense of story telling. That being said the show Killing Eve is very woke, has very similar tropes as WoT but it wasn't done at the expense of the story, so the show ended up good (at least the first season). Also, Tv Animated show Arcane has very progressive ideas and has been lauded as great by the same people who accuse other shows of being woke (and it's good for the same reason Killing Eve is good - story took precedence over "the message")
"hen normal people say the show is woke they don't mean ..." - _as if_ the word "woke" has any useful meaning anymore. And I'll assert this: people with any sense of comfort with themselves don't go around shouting "woke" at others. Those who are shouting "woke" are some combination of insecure, hateful, and ignorant.
I only ever see conservatives calling anything woke and only when it is bad. Arcane wasn't called woke. Neither is Pose or any other well written show. Woke is a political dog whistle.
@@TheDanEdwards
"insecure, hateful, and ignorant"
So "woke" then.
@@amys0482 Rafe and Amazon were more worried about diversity quotas, pushing LGBT and 'current year' feminism. All these took precedence over anything RJ wrote.
It's woke.
@@TheDanEdwards Kind of like people who run around shouting "fascist"
You got it wrong in the trailer you can see that place where Rand meets Amyrlin is in Cairhien instead FalDara it is not TarValon it’s much smaller chamber , pay attention to markings on walls those are Cairhien crests, and it seems Siuan took Logain also there probably to parade him through the city as display of power . That would explain why we see Moirane with Siuan again … they all reunite in Moiraine’s hometown.
That would be better... Did they bring her throne?
@@amys0482 yes they did as display of power
@@Berndr I'll like that better. I really like the Cairhien chapters in the book.
@@amys0482 yeah meeting in Cairhien is much better because it would otherwise as you say make no sense for Rand to go to TarValon, and it makes sense from the production point of view to do that encounter in Cairhien because they are kinda done with FalDara… I must add I found your reviews for the first season of WOT as well as the Rings of Powers an absolute gold, it was not only far the best and most objective review on you tube, but also informative and educational backed with lots of facts and well researched data… I really hope you will be reviewing season 2 as well cause I am really looking forward to it 😄
I'm a book fan in the middle of a re-read of the series. Got my gf into the books and we had her dad watch the first episode of season one, which he enjoyed. I didn't like the season, barring a few spots here and there where I felt it was fine, so my expectations are L O W. I'm gonna watch season two and be right here with ya for the reviews!
My prediction for the magic system is it doesn't remain unexplained but will be so vague as to be unrecognizable. I also predict Loial is MIA to the point of absurdity.
Also did you move? I really liked that bookshelf you had in the other videos.
No, I just recorded in a different room.
Not sure Loial will be MIA. Earlier teaser trailers show him in the background with Perrin. But I'm sure they won't do him justice in any way.
My goodness. Why stab Loial with the ruby hilted dagger? It makes no sense. It completely cheapens when Rand is stabbed by the dagger and barely survives. The decision is moronic, I'm pretty sure the showrunner has never cracked the books.
@@ameliamccombs4313 So many bad choices in this show I forgot this one... that was soooo bad! And the whole reason the horn was hidden at the eye was to avoid temptation of it being used before the Last Battle, Sheinar would be the worse place to avoid this temptation!
@@ameliamccombs4313 The show-runner CLAIMS to be a fan of the books.
Of course, he also tweeted that he was looking forward to ruining everything we loved about the books.
You think anyone told Amazon that they could have made this show with a different name they could have saves the licencing money and made the same thing?
Yeah, but then WOT fans like me my not have watched beyond an episode or two
@@gautamsharma8854 if it is the same show by a different name, doesn't that just mean you were tricked?
also just reread the sentence I wrote up there, god bless you for being able to read it 😅
Corporate fan fiction made me laugh out loud because it is so true. I agree with so many of your points, and indeed this is not woke as I understand the term. I don’t care that such an emphasis is being placed upon this, but do care about the unnecessary muddied flowing of well, the one what?
Rand murdered a woman in book 3. I think the show is portraying what his state of mind was when that incident happened.
She was a darkfriend who was part of a whole group of darkfriends and they had a Gray Man with them. They would have killed him if he hadn't killed them.
Big difference between that and him choking Moiraine.
If so, it's not working.
If you're gonna do a catchup before S2 launches, I implore you to watch my fan edit which trims S1 into a 4.5h film and removes a LOT of the type of inconsistencies you are pointing out here. It's just a more consistent, tighter focused story by sticking pretty close to the EF5's journey.
I'm busy with a Rev 2 tweak that irons out a few rough edges and it's looking REALLY good to me.
Link ?
Can I just say that on top of everything the design choices in this series continue to amaze and baffle me with how horrid they are?
How do 1 inch fingernails turn into wolverine claws?
Yep, how on Randland will Turak wield a sword with fingernails that long !?
@@LooseTheremin his fingernails will be the sword.
What, do you mean you didn't want to see the Damane with pacifiers?
I mean after Rings of power the WoT season 1 I can't trust them. They are basically using just the names of beloved characters and twist them into their liking, they don't like the source material at all and have no plans to honor it at all.
Moraine's story is stolen from Tom this season. She is playing des de mar in Cairhien and getting in touch with her sister. Logain and Siuan are in Cairhien for some reason. Apparently they have a very good Sanitorium. Rand is in Cairhien trying to get in contact with Logain to learn how to channel. He is also working in the Sanitorium and shacking up with Selene. A Innkeeper in the poorest section of Cairhien. Egwene and Nynaeve are at the tower. Elayne is in the white tower. Perrin searches for the horn as Avi flirts with him. Gul Died in S1E3. Mat is supposedly in the Tower because he is drawn to the dagger but Fain had the dagger in Far Dara (S1E8)
You should look into the leaked Avi and Perrin script. It is bad.
That all sounds like what I would expect from this team.
Kriss - The problem with Rand wanting Logain to teach him how to channel is that Logain has been gentled so he can't show Rand anything.
@@LooseTheremin you know that and I know that but the writers don't. This wasn't my prediction for the season it was what was released through the few teasers and trailers
Another thing I find a little strange and a little disturbing is this repeated trope of little girls being in danger/killed.
1) There was the scene with the Fade in Season 1 where the girl who was talking to Mat was killed.
2) Then the Seanchan damane sent a huge wave at another little girl standing alone on the beach.
3) Now this scene with Ishamael and this girl at a darkfriend gathering.
4) The trailer for Season 2 also has a scene with Perrin and a young girl who may be his sister and she will most likely be killed by Trollocs or Padan Fain.
I mean, I know they want to show that it is a world full of evil and danger, but like a lot of things in the show it seems excessive and overdone.
Interesting observation
Yes there seems to be a sinister undertone to some of the writing. Why did they give Perrin a wife and then have him accidentally kill her, particularly in such a bestial manner ? What were they trying to achieve with that ?
@@LooseTheremin Def something to revisit when we get to Faile. I think it's going to cause problems. Such a terrible change.
Amy - I was aghast ! And I don't do aghast very often !
@@LooseTheremin Although I _really_ dislike how they do it in the show, the purpose is the same as from the books. (Albeit pulled off exceedingly poorly). Truth is, it _is_ a bestial act that sets Perrin off and starts his hateful relationship with his axe and violence. However, in the books it is when he's "goes berserk" after the Whitecloaks kill a wolf, and proceeds to kill a couple Whitecloaks. He is later _very_ apprehensive about using his axe in fear of going berserk, or giving in to the wolf inside him.
Where'd your wonderful wine wall go?
And all the books ?
@@LooseTheremin besides the point
Oh Mikey ! - Well I guess I know what direction your priorities are pointing !
Edit: Amy recorded the video in a different room so she said below. Mystery solved.
I think the premise of rolling books 2 and 3 into 8 episodes of tv is laughable at best, so I have zero expectations at this point. I'd settle for Lan keeping his shirt on and not crying tbh. I will say i did not hate this trailer as much as i expected to, Rand seems to have some better energy, the weaves look better but as you said, they lie through their teeth so when it rolls out im sure it will be packed full of nonsense like S1. Time will tell!
To be fair to Rafe Judkins and his writing team, James O. Rigney submitted a very large manuscript to his editor -- and future wife -- Harriet MacDougal. She advised him to adapt that large book plan into three books. This created the confusing ending for The Eye of the World and why all three books follow the "Pursuit/Escape trope". Since books 2 & 3 were once the same book, recondensing back into a single season makes sense, especially if they plan on covering the complete 14 book story.
As always, it's a pleasure to see your thoughtful and insightful videos, and I look forward to their reviews. Personally, I hope they don't waste 2 of 6 episodes inserting fanfiction again. Really bad fanfiction. Both the Warders and the Aes Sedai have been de-mystified and not very awe-inspiring. They have to walk a real fine line with the whole gender thing too when one gender becomes a walking wacked out thermonuclear bomb if they can channel. Your comment abouts the power and gender got me thinking.......how would a female Dragon Reborn wield Callandor? Rhetorical, but fun mind candy.
I will be unsurprised if Callandor is cut from the story. I don't think we are going to get Tear at all. Season 3 is probably going to leap into the plot events of The Shadow Rising
Talking about the books one thing that has always puzzled me is why the publishers never produced a properly edited and abridged edition of the books in WoT ? They would have made a fortune all over again. It's odd.
Probably contracts. I like its length, though. It's bloated in places. I could do with fewer random POV characters, but I like the story until Sanderson takes over. Grateful to him, but Memory of Light is a mess of a book.
@@amys0482 I think I understand why my opinion of the show is so different from yours. Memory of Light is in my top 3 favorites of the series. I love how chaotic and action packed it was. It's why I loved episode 4 so much even though it didn't follow the books at it. Episode 4 was exciting and it felt the most like the books to me, even though none of it happened in the books.
Amy - Yes Sanderson's last three books were a hell of a lot better than nothing but I missed Robert Jordan's "voice". Sanderson messed up Mat ( although his Mat wasn't terrible ) and he messed up Min ( and his Min was terrible ) and he couldn't get close to Jordan's deft touch with humour.
3:42 - 3:54 ditto.
I probably read the series a dozen times, i used to do a re-read every time a new book came out. I had mixed feelings about S1, but i felt better about it than you did to be honest and also enjoyed it more on a rewatch. I was very happy with the portrayal of logain for example. As for S2, i watched the first scene of S2 and it was a pretty good homage to the Bors scene, i am hopeful. Finally those criticising the writing or pacing, i can understand. Those angry because of the colour of characters or 'wokism'? i have no understanding of at all.
I like seeing more of Logain. Not everything the show has done differently from the books has been bad but there were some pretty bad calls that distract from what they get right.
@@amys0482 there have definitely been issues with the writing i agree. A lot of the problems are related to the limited episodes available to tell the story however. Take S1E4 for example. It didn't stick to the story faithfully, however- In that episode in under an hour they explained the importance of the warder bond, explained the relative strength of men in the power, explained the nature of the ajahs. demonstrated the madness, and further developed the best relationship in the story.
In short very efficient explanation of the world to the audience. I do think the show had issues but it isnt the disaster that ring of power was.
Two Rivers should have been a homogenous place. Don't care what color or race they were, but they it should have been consistent with an area that's been mostly isolated for centuries (I think that's still true in the show). Game of Thrones did diverse casting well, Wheel of Time did it in the most lazy way possible.
Also, I know this is just a tiny example in a grand scheme of things, but Mat's parents (particularly his father) characters will never recover. Nor will the rest of Emond's field population for allowing Abel's behavior to continue in full public view.
I am glad you liked the show, but I don't know how to reconcile it with the books.
@@alexr6092 I do understand the book theme of the two rivers being untouched for a long time but the cultural state of the two rivers is a small thing for me personally. The two rivers in book 1 is a rip off of the shire if we are being honest. If totally honest while i love WOT, book 1 was a homage to LOTR.
The capabilities of those being cast is far more important and for me the actress playing nynaeve has nailed it. In fact i think that while the writing has its issues the actors have done a good job with the material presented to them.
" I don't think this guy's a member ! " GTA-VC
Ah Amy you are back ! Glad to see you have reviewed this trailer and that you plan to review season two as well as your comments are intelligent, insightful and well articulated. As a type of conservative though I often don't agree with your politics. I have read ( listened to ) the fourteen books three times so I have a pretty good working knowledge of them.
I thought season one was awful. You covered a lot of the points yourself so this won't be anything new to you. Aging up Rand, Mat, Perrin and Egwene just ruined them right from the start. Playing "Who's the Dragon !?" was idiotic and Woke. Refusing to acknowledge the male/female sides of the power ( Woke ). Making Moiraine the main character instead of Rand ( Woke ). Taking big moments away from the boys and giving them to the girls ( Woke ) and on and on. The first two episodes were poorly done but at least had some connection to the books but after that they pretty much ignored the books and wasted six of the eight hours they had to work with peddling their own agenda. Unbelievable !
When I say Woke I suppose I'm using my own understanding of that word. I don't connect it to the Black movement at all. To me it's all about pushing Fourth Wave Feminism, Social Justice and LGBTQHIA issues. For instance the Damane wear "gags" instead of collars and leashes to symbolize their voices being silenced ( and btw has anyone seen a Sul'dam ? ). Moiraine was shielded/stilled at the end of season one by Ishamael, or in other words she was disempowered by a male. It's obvious what the priority is in the writing ( striking a blow against the Patriarchy ). Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is just a scaffold that they can hang their ideology on.
I can't tell much from the trailer except that it seems to be more of the same. But I'll watch season two anyway so I can keep criticising it !
yay your back. ready for your analysis of what is shaping up to be as you say. a trash season 2. in just the trailer and 3 min thing they have mashed so much more important stuff. This is insane. and what makes me sad is. this was likely the only shot we will ever have to have an adaptation of these books in our lifetime. :(
p.s. i have raged at the concept of woke and its use for the last 6 years. ive yelled at friends of mine for using a word which i think is solely the purview of morons. That being said. i think you are echoing my thoughts that the WoT tv show might in fact be the only thing im willing to call woke garbage.you are saying it in a slightly different way then me. but i think we are on the same track if calling it different. i consider it woke not for the racial changes. that im perfectly ok with. nor the LGBT abundance. that im ok with as welll. But more for taking a story that is already very fair and balanced between the sexes. surprisingly so for the time it was written in. and yet. Rafe somehow decided that the balance between the sexes wasnt good and instead removed core parts of what makes the story tick for what seems like awful reasons.. you dont call it woke. i hate using the word woke. whatever term we use. i think it = garbage
p.s. wtf. the trollocs like being petted. like what.
p.p.s. at least we have house of the dragon season 2 to look forward to for good tv.
i predict a plot twist. Rand joins the shadow and Shaitan wins. I wouldnt put it past Rafe's need to rewrite the entire series.
Zarek - Yes it seems clear that Rafe Judkins the Betrayer of Hope will stop at nothing so I too wouldn't put it past him. It looks like he's going to have some kinky rough sex thing going on between Rand and Moiraine as well, in some kind of dungeon !
I didn't finish House of the Dragon. It is much better written but I just find Martin's world depressing.
Nynaeve is very violent in the books. In book 1 she attacks Aginor with a dagger.
In book 3 she punches one of the Black Ajah in the face then backhands another.
In book 4 she throws the male a'dam at Moghedien and hits her right in the face.
In book 5 she grabs Cerandin and shakes her, then gets a black eye after they have a fight.
She also gets into a fist fight with Siuan at some point.
She even kicks Mat in the butt when he comes to Salidar.
I don't remember Nyneave knifing anyone so would have to look that up. I do remember her waxing on about men with swords and hating war. But, yes, she fights like a cat when cornered and has a stubborn ferocious streak. She is pro self defense. I would object if she took up the Way of the Leaf like Perrin does in Season 1. That's not what I mean by nonviolent. Nyneave believes in freedom, self defense, and justice, which in her book can include violence. But I don't want to see her carry a sword.
Nynaeve from the books is bad tempered, bossy and definitely a hitter, but she isn't "very violent". Even Lan isn't "very violent", although violence is his business it is measured. Trollocs now, they are very violent !
I have read the book series twice, and I hate the show. I don't think literature should be vandalized. The argument that some people think the show is too "woke", is interesting. I think it is almost funny, because I thought the books were fairly woke. They are full of girl bosses and Mary Sues who can do anything, who can beat up a group of thugs on a city street without using magic, blah blah blah and that is before we even get to Cadsuane. Hero's and villains alike are represented by males and females and different cultures throughout the saga. There was room for diverse casting and pushing their standard feminist girl boss story while still staying true to the books. But they had to go even farther. In a society that is already a matriarchy and the only thing men have is the dragon, they have to take that too. Perhaps the best male counterbalance to a female dominated story was Matt, who is almost universally a beloved character by male and female readers alike. They had to utterly destroy him. And what we are left with is an incoherent, dumpster fire that is so singularly focused on diversity in a story that didn't need it, that it isn't concerned with plot, likeable characters or being the least bit entertaining. It never ceases to amaze me how dense these people are. All they have to do is tell a story as it is and they will have success with the already built in fan base and draw more satisfied viewers who learn why the wheel of time had a fan base to begin with. But their sheer ego won't let them do the easy thing and allow the original author to do the majority of the story telling, oh no. Every one of them thinks they are a better storyteller than Robert Jordan, Andrzej Sapkowski, or J.R. Tolkien. Case in point, Harry Potter and Game of Thrones (the first 4 seaons). Everyone loves them. Writers closely followed the books.
Milly of the CataCombs - Well said ! It's obvious that Rafe Judkins the Betrayer of Hope and his gang of so-called writers ( Woke hacks ) had no intention of doing a faithful adaptation of Robert Jordan's WoT. Just the opposite as it seems to me they have deliberately set out to annoy the book fans at every opportunity. They should all be sent to the Mistress of Novices so she can spank their bottoms ! Mind you half of them would probably enjoy it !
LOL@@LooseTheremin
"Adaptations" - maybe we should revisit the meaning of that word. Of course Amazon's WoT show _is an adaptation_ of Jordan's work. To say it is not an adaptation is a bit absurd. You may not like this particular adaptation, but that does not mean it is not an adaptation.
That reminds me of a Goon Show line read out by the Announcer - " Adapted for radio by putting it onto a piece of wood and banging a few nails through it. "
An adaptation is an adaptation from one medium (book) to another medium (screen) of storytelling. An adaptation is not an excuse to just change whatever you want. A real adaptation will keep the themes, messages, characters, worldview, worldbuilding, etc IN TACT. Peter Jackson's LotR films made major changes from the books and a couple of the characters, many of which I do not agree with. However, the world on the screen was still very much ME of the books. The message and themes Tolkien wrote and portrayed were very present. That is an adaptation.
Rafeland does NOT do this, in fact it goes out of its way to piss on Randland and insult it. It is not an adaptation, it is a post-modern deliberate and spiteful deconstruction of RJ's themes and core message and worldview, twisting it in a remake for a post-modern regressive and mentally unstable audience to seal clap to.
I am strongly going for a natural disaster to completely wipe out all remnants of this show before it airs and have amazon cancel all future plans... at least that way it has a chance of being remade properly in the future! Otherwise this show will so taint the WOT name that it will be unmarketable for all time!
I'm not that hardlined against it. The show has gotten more people into the books and it's enjoyable sometimes. I just wish I only had quibbles with it based on preferences rather than deep disagreements with the fundamental themes. Like, I wish I could spend my time whining that Lanfear isn't wearing white.
@@amys0482 Thanks for your reply, long time watcher of your channel! I respect what you say. It's certainly where I was after the first few shows... But they have fundamentally lost all remnants of the original source. Matt and Perrin aren't even shadows of themselves, they are completely destroyed characters! Others aren't any better. There is no development of characters or story, no explanation of how magic works, what societies are about, or even a decent explanation on the lore of the dragon. I knew more about the world of WOT listening to the peddler and gleeman in the first 4 chapters than anyone would watching the entire 1st season of that abomination of a show. All explanations and story build was skipped to add in scenes that never existed and only take away from the story. As a faithful reader who is on my 4th "reading" (audiobooks at the moment), this show ruins the story I so love. But even worse, for the viewer who knows nothing of the source material, this show is very poorly told and serves to only lose their interest! I predict a HUGE plunge in ratings this season! Yet, I will be there, fingers crossed, hoping I finally see the adaption the WOT fans deserve!
In short. It's a waste of time like The Witcher season 3.
I haven't watched that yet. But I also haven't read all the Witcher books so it's harder to compare.
I haven't read the books and still could not get past episode 3 of s3 witcher. it's just bad writing...
@@stevenstewart1033 It's a challenging story to adapt. I find I am bored or confused watching the Witcher the first time through and enjoy more on a rewatch. Like I am rewatching season 2 and although I don't like it as well as season 1, it is somehow better when I have some idea of where the story is heading. Like... there are too many mysteries and not enough immediate tension a lot of the time. It would help to know that Ciri is the chosen one character. It would help to understand how Chaos and Destiny work in this world.
@@amys0482 @amys0482 The first season was very hard to follow but was more a set of adventure stories that fundamentally fed into a larger story, and it was well done for it. Season 2 was not bad, but it was not to the same quality as season 1, but again, i got through the whole season and was ok with it. "Never read the books" season 3, on the other hand i can't really put my finger on it other then to say if any of the main cast died im not sure i would notice or care and thats not a good thing for a show.
@@amys0482 A person doesn't have to read the books to understand terrible adaptations. At the end of the day they want the series to be judged by for what they are and they are just bad.
I think it's spite. The showrunner is gay, for transrighs, etc. Robert Jordan was right wing, conservative, Christian. The creator makes no mistakes. The only trans character in his series was a disgusting pervert. Robert Jordan was on messageboards up until his death being very open on his opinions of the LGBT community and those opinions were negative. So, I think a lot of these decisions were made to literally piss on his grave. To yank the story away. Iconoclasm.
I am not aware of RJ being in the OSC camp. WOT has quite a few pillow friends. It didn't seem hateful to me, but I didn't follow the message boards. I am fine with adding more explicit LGBTQ characters.
@@amys0482 True, I'm not against it either. However, after hearing interviews with the producer, they begin to sound a lot like the statements made by, say The Witcher writers. 'We don't read these book so we arent tainted by Robert Jordan's vision. We prefer to tell a more modern story for a modern audience'. Yadda yadda yadda. And all the core audience, the people they SHOULD be aiming for, readers, want is a good adaptation. TO share something they read with people that don't read books. Same thing happened with Rings of Power. It really does come off as...at the very least arrogant. None of these writers have written a best selling novel or even produced a decent episode of television.
@@jaredouimette1 jordan wasnt relly right wing.. anything beyond extreme left is " right wing".. soon this era left wing extreme is gonna be right wing to.
lgbtq people woke muppets will soon fight the right to rape rats.. and if your aginst it your a bigot
@@wheelofwokesellouts3900 Left and right have standard definitions in political science. XKCD has a nice visualization of it through 2012 and it has only gotten worse since then.
www.google.com/search?q=xkcd+political+parties&oq=XKCD+political&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIICAIQABgWGB4yCggDEAAYDxgWGB4yCggEEAAYhgMYigXSAQg5OTQzajBqNKgCALACAA&client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=jhO164pG4lpS5M&vssid=l
@@jaredouimette1 Any adaptation is called an adaptation for a reason: it _changes_ the original. That is the whole purpose. A TV show is not a series of novels. And, you seem to think that an adaptation has to stick religiously to some aspect of the author's own characterological biases. Why? If Jordan was the ugly person (from your description - I do not know if it is true) why should a scriptwriter feel compelled to stick with that?
The end of season 1 was so bad lol, giant tsunami for one person. The hidden preview they added to the end now isn't bad on its own, but once you contextualize it with the tone and missteps that the showrunner and writers have made overall, it does start to feel kind of cringe.
The woke issue is that while you can iterate in ways that are more progressive, there are many cases where production can get so hyperfixated on their version of it that everything else goes by the wayside, including coherency in the story.
The connotation for woke these days is negative... it is used to describe when people think someone believes themself to be more aware and progressive than they actually are. So in this case Wheel of Time does qualify as woke to many. Trying to push what it believes are correct progressive ideals, but doing so in such unintuitive and contradictory ways. Ultimately hurting the message for social progress instead of helping it.
Great video over all, and hope you're doing well!
Woke was stolen from Black Americans. The history goes back further than the recent hijacking. It is now a brazen political platform for conservstive pundits to decry the "dangers" of political reform and social justice. It has no place in reviews of entertaiment and is only invoked to rile voters to vote for conservative dipshits who are actively legislating away rights for LGBTQ people, banning books, making it a firable offense to teach the history of slavery or sex education, etc. You can't talk about Woke without this context.
The WOT TV show may be trying too hard to be progressive, but I just wouldn't call it woke.
@@amys0482
No books are banned.
If you're talking about books like "This Book is Gay" parents are opposed to books that contain explicitly sexual material (including instruction on how to use gay hookup apps) being in school libraries available to 14 year olds. You can still buy them anywhere, you just can't have them in school libraries.
You'll notice that progressives never actually read from the books that they claim are being "banned" because that would give the entire game away. People would actually realize why parents don't want those books in schools.
A teacher was actually pushing that book on children in her class, and ended up quitting when she was investigated for doing so.
Small wonder there is suspicion that "woke" educators are trying to groom children for sexual abuse.
Banning drag shows for children is not "legislating away rights for LGBTQ people". Unless, of course, you think LGBTQ people want children going to drag shows. Or that drag is innately LGBTQ.
Google "Drag queen performs lap dance on student and gyrates in front of cheering children at Pride event for high schoolers in North Carolina"
Teaching people to hate white people (as we saw with the tragic suicide of Richard Bilkszto) hounded to death by the woke mob (Richard was a progressive, gay, teacher and principal) is not teaching the "history of slavery".
@@amys0482 I understand your POV, just saying it holds a different mainstream connotation now because it was actually the left trying to make it a trend again, but being so misguided in the use of it that the right turned it into a meme against the left.
I would be careful saying it is ONLY invoked for the reasons you listed, I just think imo it's much more widespread in usage than that at this point.
Like imagine this is 10 years ago, or whenever the exact period was that woke started becoming a fad on social media... Now imagine if the WOT showrunner and writers released this show then, and were patting themselves on the back and claiming they are really woke and the people that don't like the show are all bigots. That's basically similar to how woke started trending again, its misuse, which in turn made it easy to use as ammunition from the right towards the left.
And I know this can all seem like I'm trying to get political and tear down the left, but I myself am progressive, I just hate watching certain missteps that I know will set things back, and then watching conservatives maximize the damage from those missteps.
If you have already made up your mind why are you hosting a podcast? Nothing new here.
henleypenley - What's new is the season 2 trailer. What isn't new is the shills like you trying to silence criticism. Why don't you get a real job ?
I don't believe Wheel of Time is on par with modern fantasy, even with some of Brandon Sanderson's books (not talking about his books in WoT). The series has more than 30 years and it shows. It's very simplified and naïve, first book essentially plagiarizes Tolkien, the view of the world is very black and white. Therefore, I think Amazon ultimately made a mistake deciding to adapt those books as a TV series. George R.R. Martin's the Song of Ice and Fire is much more pertinent and realistic than anything in Wheel of Time, and that's why HBO had a great success with Game of Thrones (until they had Martin's material), and House of the Dragon. In a result, Amazon doesn't really know what to do with the material they have, it's not progressive enough for them, but also it's very generic and shallow. If they wanted real feminist fantasy, there is plenty of it, like Kameron Hurley's Worldbreaker Saga, which is very modern and original, very far from generic fantasy Jordan wrote. Amazon has/had the same problem with Tolkien, hence Rings of Power, which was a total dud, what even mainstream media admit now. That's what you get when you try to adapt the prose written by a fundamentalist Catholic writer (if not outright alt-right) and make it into feminist manifesto. I think it's time for Hollywood to abandon old and outdated IPs, and use all the wonderful worlds fantasy writers created in this century.
I don't agree that Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is "very simplified and naive" at all. On the contrary it goes into a number of themes in great depth and detail. The relationships between the sexes and the nature of warfare and the emotional trauma it causes to the combatants for example. Jordan isn't afraid to present a warts and all depiction of most of his characters from the good to the downright evil and everything in between and it's brave and refreshing.
As for George Martin's Song of Ice and Fire I thought the first book was beautifully written and the next two were pretty good as well. In the next two books though the uncompleted series was driven into a ditch. Also the themes of ASOIAF were unrelievedly bleak and depressing. Sure the TV show was spectacular to watch. Just the locations and of course the dragons plus a top notch cast ( apart from a number of the younger actors ) made it compelling viewing but it always left me emotionally " Down at the bottom of the well ".
Robert Jordan's WoT isn't perfect by any means. Technically he wasn't what you would call a great writer of prose but he had his own authentic style. And he should have done time for the amount of filler he slathered into the series, that was a crime against humanity ! But overall I much prefer Robert Jordan's WoT to George Martin's ASOIAF.
@@LooseTheremin Obviously every opinion is subjective. I mainly think that his worldbuilding is simplified and naïve. Martin's worldbuilding has also its issues, his world is impossible, with one inhabited continent, and the rest is empty. But the particular locations, history of his world, characters, are based on the war of the Roses and generally de Normandie and Plantagenet history of England, sometimes totally copied. In a result, they are somewhat realistic and believable. The evil in Jordan's books is very generic, impossibly powerful force with no limits to their power, number of armies they command, etc. They have no real aims or goals, just destroy everything. Like in Tolkien's books (who, to his defense, was writing 50 years earlier during WWII). That's a very naïve worldbuilding. The show obviously doesn't know what to do with that, just has hundreds of CGI generated enemies, which is unintentionally funny. In Martin's books all characters have motivations, goals, backstory, we understand why they're doing something. Modern fantasy usually aims at showing characters in more nuanced way, where even villains can be understood, have motivations, and have own limitations. Jordan's fantasy is more akin to Tolkien's simplified worldview, than to modern fantasy.
@@ShayGamerD3 I don't agree with you. Jordan packed his saga with real history and combat experience. The politics are also realistic. His concept of evil is ultimately that it is empty and shallow. The Chosen are narcissistic and emotionally immature villains who dream of glory. I actually find them to be fairly realistic. Some aspects of the story are simplistic but WOT is much more rereadable to me than ASOIAF.
ShyGamer - You make some good points. But the things you criticise in WoT are the things I tend to like it for. To boil it down WoT has heart and soul where ASOIAF has blood and guts.
I disagree. I think Jordan was easily sidetracked as a writer and long winded. But his overall saga was a great story that I think would make an excellent (long) television adaptation if told faithfully. Obviously no one could develop all his characters and plot lines in the length of a movie, or even a trilogy.
I truly could not disagree with you more. I've read the books five times and also enjoyed season 1
That's fine! Lots of people enjoy the TV show.