Interesting, I was torn between it being either crisper or maybe too heavy. There really is something in the sound I like a lot though, thank you for watching!
I also preferred the sound from the Rue Lepic in the first three tests due to clarity and it sounding less airy but did find it a little overpowering on the final test. The V21 just sounded quite airy and it sounded like you appeared to be pushing harder to get the sound.
very nice presentation...I just shifted to the V12, having played Vandoren #4 for many years. I also had played Morre for a long time, but they are no longer available. They were the best.I still have a few still playable, but only sparingly. I am 82 years old and still play almost every day just for the enjoyment. I enjoyed the time spent with your comparison and review.
That’s fantastic Bob, I wish I had had the chance to try the old Morre’s. They have become legendary! Thank you for watching and sharing your personal playing preference!
I'm so glad you did this. So, in brief what did I hear? The Traditional yielded the brightest tone, and perhaps the sharpest articulation. On the other hand the Rue Lepic yielded the warmer tone, not just darker, and very clear articulation on the Scherzo. My pick? The Rue Lepic. Curiously, I use the Traditional. A change? Hmmm.
For me the strength of the traditional 3.5 are harder than the v12 or the 56. For that reason I always sand it down by 1/4 strength if I may say that. This might be a factor why it couldn’t start at a soft dynamic. From the video you sounded the best on the V12 IMO. Nice video!
Absolutely, the traditionals definitely feel a little harder in general than the V12s and 56s. I always end up gravitating towards the softer ones in the box. Thanks for your comment!
Respect and appreciate the analytical approach to the subtle variances between reeds only the gifted musician can truly distinguish. Well-researched and presented in a polished, professional presentation. Looking forward to your next insightful project.
I personally like V12s when performing fast pieces because of their responsiveness and how bright and focused they sound, but I use Rue Lepics when playing slow pieces that require me to have a more dark, well rounded sound.
Just getting around to viewing some of your postings from last year. When i was doing my graduate work I played on the original Morre reeds from Marks Music in PA. I was a student of Joe Allard for 10 years and I would purchase the Morre reeds from him for $5 per box! When I finished studying with him in 1974 I purchased them directly from Mr. Marks. He would always carry on a conversation when you called to order them asking about your setup and what kind of playing you were doing. One time in driving to Cleveland, I stopped in the store in Farrell PA, and met Mr. Mark's son who was now running the store. The Morre reeds were no longer made but he told me he had a few boxes in the safe and he would sell me one box for $50. (yes, I did purchase it). A long set up to address the VD v12's. You know, I am sure, that they were to be based on the Morre reeds, but there was no comparison. The 2.5 12.6 mm Morres were many times like diving boards that required much work to get them to play. You were lucky to get 2 right out of the box that worked with minimal adjustment. When you did they were fabulous reeds with a rich, dark tone and great articulation, and they did last a long time before you discarded them. Luckily, the V12 reeds are not too hard and I do get many more usable reeds per box. They do not have the tonal quality of the Morre reeds. but that could be due to the growing conditions of the cane. An oboist who studied with Ronald Roseman in NYC was told by Roseman that reed cane could be judged by the equivalent wine vintage in a growing year. If the grape harvest was particularly good- buy cane from that year and make your reeds from that year. As clarinetists that purchase our reeds we do not have that luxury (or burden). I still play V 12s but occasionally go to the Rue 56, also Gonzalez FOF and D'Addario Reserve Classic. Thanks again for another great review.
What a great story! I never was able to try any of the original Morre reeds, but they were certainly legendary! Its an interesting idea about buying cane from years that had a particularly good grape harvest. It would be a cool thing for someone to test out over a long period of time! Thanks for sharing and for watching!
I tried out the v21, in all of the 10 reeds I got there wasn't a single 'dead' reed. I do think that the v21 is pretty smooth at the top register. I also think that they were better than the traditional because I was able to produce a better tone with them. I did progress way faster while using a box of v21 reeds than I did using traditional because the traditional had a lot of reeds that were airy, but the v21 allowed me to have a good tone and developed my techniques better. I haven't tried out the two others (why I watched this video), but I do think the v12 is the best one overall.
I just threw away dozens of V12s ... varied from 2 to 10 years old. I haven't been able to use them in decades. I gave away several new boxes to my clarinet teacher. They respond well but are buzzy and bright. When the V12s first made their debut, I immediately found them darker and nicer than the Blue Box, but less responsive. Now, they seem to have reversed roles. Maybe it's the cane or how it's processed. I switched to Pilgerstorfer Dolce and then to Reserve Evolution.
For me the V12's always seem to go through a huge transformation during my break-in process. If they stayed the way the played out of the box, I probably wouldn't play on them anymore. But I've been meaning to try the Pilgerstorfer Dolce's for literally years, you've reminded me that its time to finally order a box! Thanks for commenting and watching!
I take the 56s have done after years on traditional sand a brief go on v21s the V21s were good for jazzier music and the traditional are good allrounders but the 56s just are perfect for my expression are playstyle and allows for the higher register to be played with ease and passion
Brilliant project and video. I really appreciate the time you spent in reducing the variables to a minimum to make the trial as equitable as possible. Your playing samples were great. I could tell from your playing which you found harder or easier to play and which you like the best. But that was only a tiny margin. I would be interested to know about your setup? What is your mouthpiece, ligature and clarinet ? A review of mouthpieces and ligatures would also be fascinating. Thanks again - Excellent !!! I liked the sound of the V21 the best and the V12 the least !
Thanks Morag! I appreciate the kind words! My setup for this video was a refaced Vandoren BD5, a Buffet Tosca Clarinet, a barrel made for me by Eugene Mondie and a gold plated reverse bonade ligature. My setup changes video to video, but I try and make sure to always list what I’m playing on in the description! I definitely plan on doing more product reviews/comparisons in the future! Thanks for watching!
Listening a second time, I think the V21 and Rue Lepic remain the top two. Followed by V21 and then the traditional. But overall, a fantastic presentation.
I use V12 and personally don’t like it. They start out nice and dark but after it gets bright, and I don’t like to sound bright. I listened to this without looking to pick which one I liked, I recognized the v12 right away lol. But yeah 56 sounded the best, it gave the dark, warmness I’m looking for. Thank you for the video!
Thank you for your great informative videos and your analytical mind not just your musical mind. The Great Jack Brymer used to say if a perfect Reed was needed to set off an atomic bomb they come up with one but then he said that some sonics would say it was so perfect that it was impossible to duplicate it. Most young players and probably most players don’t realise that your enemy is humidity not Vandoren who put so much into their products I remember when I was a boy you were very lucky if you could find VanDoren if you did they came in boxes of 20 open to the elements. Since the number of years ago they changed their packaging they are better. We are looking for everything to be perfect I’m sorry to say but learning the craft of getting a great clarinet reed is an ongoing lifelong process Best wishes and thanks once again. Bill. UK
Thanks for posting. I enjoyed the Reserve ones as well. I try to balance using Reserve and Vandoren mouthpieces, but I lean Reserve more. My problem with the traditional is that I feel the tone is unbalanced. The presence of the lower over tones is too strong (not enough higher ones) and the core of the sound is not strong enough to really balance the sound properly. I feel the V12’s provide a very balanced tone. There is a good blend of everything in it. The Rue Lepic provide the color I feel works the best for pieces like Weber, Brahms, and other works around that time period. You get a lot of color. I love that sound the best personally even though I don’t really play that way much. The V21’s lacked the color of the others altogether. It is a very core based tone that minimizes the overtones. I was not either here or there on the articulation. I felt the V21’s had the most consistent response on each note even if the response was heavier than the others. I felt the Rue Lepic response was almost too easy a response - extremely light. The V12’s were a little lighter than the Traditional. It comes down to taste and music I would think. For me, I have never had much success with the traditional. I don’t use them. I use V21’s and V12’s. I have added the Rue Lepic in for my personal enjoyment. They are not a preferred choice of the directors of the band programs around me, so I don’t recommend them to students. They can experiment with those in college.
By the way, congratulations to this awesome video! Very informative, making detailed comparisons, we can see your dedication to bring the best you can. Keep doing this, sure will be even more successful!
Terrific video by a super player. Very well done. Overall the V12 sounded the best to me (I may go back to them). V21 sounded duller than the rest. Traditional sounded brighter. 56 sounded warmer. Thank you. Great job.
Very good video. I have always used Traditional "blue box" reeds and have been too stubborn to try others, mainly because I'm just too used to blue box. I tried 21s but they didn't work with me. Will definitely give 12 and Rue Lepic a fair shot.
Hey great video. I use V21 for the reasons that you mentioned. However, as you found out, despite what Vandoren says, they "feel" harder than the other reeds. So I use softer V21's. try one strength lower than what you use on V12.
Great video,thanks. I thought you sounded the best on the V21. Very stable and even through all registers. Could you please review the different shaped blanks of all 4 reeds?
@@ParkHouseCreations thanks for getting back to me. For example the 56 reed looks much more like a German cut reed, with a thinner width base and a tip more like the traditional Vandoren blue box. The V12 has a less curved tip etc. Which reeds have more wood in the heart of the reed? Which reed has a firmer tip etc. Which reed has a straight cut before the scrape, compared to a curved start to the scrape. I hope these examples make sense. Cheers J
For me, the V12 has a more intense, brilliant and clarinet unique sound. In opposition, the 56 has as much sound as the traditional; particularly, there's nothing special with it. The V21, in contrast with the first one, has a obscure, soft and perhaps not as loud and projected sound as V12. It's beautiful how it sounds, but it seems to be harder to make it louder.
I think this is a really well thought out analysis!While I disagree a little about the 56, I totally understand why you would say that. I think the attribute I enjoy the most when it comes to the 56 is a certain “roundness” and clarity to the sound. However, barring those attributes, you’re right, it is a relatively plain sound, especially in comparison to something like the V12. And thank you so much for the kind words!
I have to disagree with you on the 56, the feel of it completely different in how more sensitive you have to be as a player than traditionals. I love traditional sound but wanted something more reactive and could accent and have dynamics with. 56 works perfectly for me.
I find that the V-21s have not been at its best quality lately. I just bought a box and maybe two out of ten work well. That’s not a good investment; especially not in a almost recession. I think overall the V-12s and the Rue Lepic 56 sound the best. I’ll be switching back.
V12 the best V21 the worst traditional and 56 are more or less equally acceptable. Also slight strength difference in the cuts should be kept in mind. V12 3.5 much lighter than traditional 3.5 thus to give a fair shot to different cuts the strength should be used accordingly. Thank you for the video!
I think the Rue Lepic sounds best if you are to be playing expressive solos- i.e. 1st clarinet in a late 19th/20th century orchestra, but the articulation response suffers. So for Mozart to Schubert/Mendelssohn era I think v12 is easily best. V21 seems to split the difference between these two. Traditional is a bit too spread a sound compared to the others. Would love to hear Rue Lepic in a jazz context (with softer setup). Great video!
the 56's did sound nice. Traditional is lively.- any of these could be great depending on the setting (large ensemble vs. small), style of music (classical vs. Jazz), lig makes a difference too
Great video and thanks!! Its great there are people like you sharing his knowledge about reeds ;) I am expecting your breaking in reeds video!! P.D. My favourite reeds are V12. The response for me are really good and the tone is more balanced compare to the rue lepic or V21
Ever tried V21 Austrian and Black Master reeds on Boehm mouthpiece? Vandoren says these could also match Boehm mouthpieces, so that's interesting! I think I'm gonna give them a try.. Already like rubbed V21 3 but rubbed on BD7.. Yes, even number 3 needs a little rubbing to play properly on BD7, but It really plays wonderfully when It gets right in strength!
I have tried the Black Master reeds and while I could get them to play, they seemed much less consistent than french style reeds with the mouthpiece I was using at the time!
@@ParkHouseCreations I previously asked Vandoren(Laurent Sultan) If maybe V21 Austrian could play well on BD7, but didn't recommend It. What do you think? They are as narrow as rue lepics but I don't like rue lepics. This time I'm starting to really like the normal V21. I got 2 before some months, they were little heavy. After breaking in, I left them to season some months, recently tried again, they were about as heavy as they were new. So, I took the decision to rub the back of them with A.L.E. I did rubbed gradually, little every time I play, they became both very good!! So, I'm thinking to take a V21 3 box anytime in the future.. I did the same process with 2 Traditionals I had. While they became from heavy to very good, V21 have more projection and core in the sound. I kinda refuse to play my V12s cause with BD7, sound becomes too warm, which is not good.. Though they're the most suitable reeds on it..
PS You sound great on them all of them but I bet they don’t all feel the same but you’re a musician that’s why you make them sound good God bless you Bill UK. PPS You’d probably sound good on a chair leg some of the legendary players of the past never heard all the stuff we have to do and yeah mate incredible music. Best wishes in your musical career!
According to Vandoren's strength chart, the Rue Lepic 3.5 is a very soft 3.5, relative to their other reeds. Could this account for why you did not think it produced as big a sound as the others? I play Vandoren 3.5 Traditional or a V12 3.5+, and a #4 Rue Lepic seems closest to these for me. I have found the V21s to be very hard, relative to other Vandoren reeds of the same # strength, significantly harder than the Vandoren strength chart suggests.
Ya, I’m still not sure why the V21’s were harder than the rest, Vandoren’s strength chart is usually pretty accurate. I’ve been meaning to get a second box to see if it was a fluke!
@@ParkHouseCreations They just have a special feel. Like just the right amount of resistance vs clarity and a very focused and even sound. It's like playing in a large 1800 seat hall that has the right amount of resistance to help you drive through all they way to the back seat on the third balkony.
네! Lineaudio CM4 stereo pair in an XY setup about 1.8 meters high and about 1.5-1.8 meters away. I wish the room sounded a little better, but I’m sure I can find better rooms in the future!
One comment on this nice review is that you didn't say too much about strength, and particularly its variations. I'm always surprised by how much fluctuation there is in this: in every box, a number of reeds will be way too soft and a number way too hard. I find having the right strength is maybe the top criterion in giving a reed the chance to sound reasonable - particularly, it's hard to do anything with a reed that's too soft. I didn't like the sound you got on the Traditional or 56 as much as the V12 or V21, but my main thought was that the Trad/56 sounded softer, and so I was left wondering if a slightly harder specimen of each would have given a more mellow sound like the V12/21 - but maybe the ones you played all felt equally hard? Finally, since people are voting, let me report that I've never found anything (Vandoren or otherwise) that matches a good V12.
Hey John, thanks for watching! This was one of my first videos and I wish I had found a better way of condensing/simplifying my results. I believe the last (very dry) 10 or so minutes is focused on what you are asking about. The charts I created for each reed type were intended to show how consistent each box of reeds was strength-wise. Each reed features a number from 0-10 that is intended to represent how hard the reed is: 0-4 being a gradation of too soft, 5 being just right, and 6-10 being a gradation of too hard. It also shows how each reed’s strength changes over the course of my break-in process. The charts are somewhat difficult to read and the section is boring, but I think the information you want is there. If I were to ever remake this video, this would be the first section I change lol! If I am misunderstanding, please let me know!
@@ParkHouseCreations Thanks for the fast reply. You indeed gave a comprehensive amount of information, including strengths - but I was particularly curious about the strengths of the reeds you chose to play: were they the average of each box, or did you try to match strengths? I know you said the 56's were softer on average and that you thought you liked that - but does that mean that you were aware that the V12 you played was harder? I just wondered how the comparsion would have sounded if you'd chosen one of the softer V12's (or indeed one of the stronger Trad/56's). If you did do that, then that would be interesting, as the Trad/56 both sounded softer than the V12/V21.
@@johnpeacock1469 Oh, I see what you're saying! Ya that's a good question. I knew going into the video that the strengths/resistances between reeds would most likely be considerably different, but I also wanted to put Vandoren's strength chart to the test. Since I knew the strengths/resistances would differ, I think I focused on picking the reed from each box that just played the best, regardless to how much harder/softer it was then the reeds from the other boxes. For me, I think there is a relatively wide range of strengths that still feel pretty comfortable for me. So to answer your question; I was aware that the average 56 was slightly softer than the average v12, but since I could get both of them to play the way I needed them to and still be comfortable, I was alright with that. But you're right, it would be interesting to repeat the comparison, but instead of focusing on the best reed from each box, I could instead focus on trying to pick reeds that essentially felt the same strength-wise. Thanks for the insightful comment/question, gives me something to think on!
Hey John, good question! I agree it would have been nice to have a stock BD5 on hand just to give people a solid reference point, but unfortunately I didn’t have one on hand. I don’t have the numbers for the facing curve, but the tip was made more closed to around 1.08mm if I recall correctly. Though the majority of the work was done to the baffle. All in all, it still sounds like a BD5, just one that is more comfortable for me to play. Ultimately though, the mouthpiece wasn’t intended to be the focus at all. It was really just a test to show the differences between reed types (compared to each other) given that all the major variables were kept as uniform as possible. Please let me know if you have any other questions! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Sometimes I think I'll be in some kind of cult? Find the one that suits your mouthpiece and instrument. Then practice and play. It's all subjective and your own preference. Would usually have to adjust the reed in some way. During the 50s when I started to learn to play the clarinet we were taught to just reed on the top. I read in a book called woodwind instruments and the history by Anthony Bains that Viennese players signed at the bottom with the sandpaper on the glass. We usually capture single sided razor blade in a red box. VanDoren made one kind of read what we now call the blue box. If you could get them they were like finding gold! I believe that many of the read fields were destroyed in the war and it took some time to get the stock going again. The reeds seemed
Ps. Hard and in consistent. It was the thicker cut that gave what we thought was the better tone. Reeds came in boxes of 20 so they were also expensive Sometimes the reads came greenish colour because they had not been properly matured. My teacher the late James Joseph principal clarinet of the Northern Sinfonia Orchestra told me how some of the top players got boxes , and treat them and store them in cigar boxes in the attic. Thankfully we don't have to do this today. I have been Vandoren player for over 60 years and I think since VanDoren store them in the new packaging the recent reeds much better and consistent. I think all the reeds are fantastic from VanDoren it's just your own preference and you may use a different code in a different venue as well I have had two different kinds of Vandoren Reed refacers. Which are excellent as is the reed geek. But I find that I do not spend hours of time preparing reads like I used to do. I like to play them. When I was a boy I was taught to relieve the best reed for the concert or the examination. But I quickly found out that that was a myth because humidity affects the reeds. So I now use the best reed first. A bit like having The ice cream first at a meal. The Great clarinettist Jack Brymer once said commenting on the comment that there is no such thing as a perfect reed said if it took a perfect clarinet reed to set off a nuclear weapon the scientists would invent a perfect one, but then some cynic would say it was so perfect you couldn't duplicated. Interestingly we have the new synthetic reeds which some people swear by I suspect it's a matter of feel. It seems ironic that the whole world seems to be getting away from plastic but the world of woodwind instruments seems to be taking it on board. Who knows it's your choice. Thank you so much for examination of the various reeds. I am also appreciative of the VanDoren family who have dedicated their lives with excellent reed and mouthpiece productsI hope it helps you and many others. Sorry my previous comments went off before I could edit the spellings.- God bless you and everyone in 2021 and they will find at least one good reed !!! - Bill - UK
Do you or have you needed to finish these reeds? I have on quite authority that most reeds are flawed - or highly flawed - in some way, namely the wood is too thick in the base.
I very rarely work on reeds, typically only to make sure I have a few options for an audition. However, I do have a break in process and storage system that I religiously follow. The link to that video is in the description and I think would help explain my position!
@@ParkHouseCreations Please look at this video (and hopefully all of the others) th-cam.com/video/cRr82OkKTqM/w-d-xo.html . Though, I will test your breaking in process.
@@spartan.falbion2761 Ah, I see your source. A lot of people use the Ridenour system with great success! I myself used it for a time. However, for my own playing (I fully acknowledge that it could be different for others!) I found I sounded better and had less reed problems when I stopped using it. When I work on reeds now, which as I mentioned in the other video, is very seldom, I do much more detailed work on the reed than the ATG system calls for. I am planning on doing a video on reed making, maybe I can talk about some of this then, or perhaps in an additional video!
Maybe its my production approach or the break in process I use, but it seems I have much better luck with Vandoren reed than others in terms of how many reeds are playable out of the box!
You're lucky if you get 4 - I typically only get 2 from a box that I'd be prepared to play in public. But the good news is that it's not the same 2 for everyone. My teacher plays on the same reeds that I prefer (V12 3.5) and I realised he threw away the ones he couldn't get to work - so I asked if I could have this "junk". The success rate is lower than with new reeds, but I still get at least one concert standard reed from a box of 10. And the ones I can't get to work, I pass on to a local youth band. I wonder how many players recycle in this way and help each reed find someone who will like it?
Why are we adjusting to reeds rather than adjusting the reeds to play easily for us? Really it's a matter of what cut and strength of reed is going to take the least amount of time to balance and adjust so that it fits us. Chart keeping is time that could be spent practicing or doing just about anything else in my opinion! :)
I respect that! I would just like to clarify that I only made that chart for the purposes of this video, it’s not something I normally do. With my break-in method I spend virtually no time needing to balance and adjust reeds as I find most reeds play acceptably after they’ve been broken in without extra work. The only time I might break this rule is when I’m preparing for a major audition or concert. Ultimately, I find this lets me spend basically all of my clarinet time practicing, when I’m not making videos of course!
@@klarinetta indeed. All my students from 7th grade on up are offered the opportunity to be equipped and trained unless they are late beginners. Most take advantage of the opportunity.
This is a bit ironic because adjusting reeds is also time that could be spent on practicing (and so is watching this video and commenting vs making a chart for educational purposes for others). I think it's a balancing act of knowing both how to do basic adjustments and also knowing what cuts work for you in specific circumstances. Saying one is better than the other is kind of silly, imho.
My overall favorite is the V12! But for articulation I liked the Rue Lepic the best... it seemed crisper compared to the rest.
Interesting, I was torn between it being either crisper or maybe too heavy. There really is something in the sound I like a lot though, thank you for watching!
I also preferred the sound from the Rue Lepic in the first three tests due to clarity and it sounding less airy but did find it a little overpowering on the final test.
The V21 just sounded quite airy and it sounded like you appeared to be pushing harder to get the sound.
very nice presentation...I just shifted to the V12, having played Vandoren #4 for many years. I also had played
Morre for a long time, but they are no longer available. They were the best.I still have a few still playable, but only
sparingly. I am 82 years old and still play almost every day just for the enjoyment. I enjoyed the time spent
with your comparison and review.
That’s fantastic Bob, I wish I had had the chance to try the old Morre’s. They have become legendary! Thank you for watching and sharing your personal playing preference!
Gonzales FOF is a knock off of Morre ... I use 3 3/4 Gonzalez.
56 gives the richest and darkest sound. Thanks for the comparison which is super helpful :)
I’m glad it helped!
I’ve always used V12 but am trying out Rue Lepic. Thanks for this!
I'm so glad you did this. So, in brief what did I hear? The Traditional yielded the brightest tone, and perhaps the sharpest articulation. On the other hand the Rue Lepic yielded the warmer tone, not just darker, and very clear articulation on the Scherzo. My pick? The Rue Lepic. Curiously, I use the Traditional. A change? Hmmm.
Thanks for this - I preferred the v12 overall for the sound quality
For me the strength of the traditional 3.5 are harder than the v12 or the 56. For that reason I always sand it down by 1/4 strength if I may say that. This might be a factor why it couldn’t start at a soft dynamic. From the video you sounded the best on the V12 IMO. Nice video!
Absolutely, the traditionals definitely feel a little harder in general than the V12s and 56s. I always end up gravitating towards the softer ones in the box. Thanks for your comment!
Respect and appreciate the analytical approach to the subtle variances between reeds only the gifted musician can truly distinguish. Well-researched and presented in a polished, professional presentation. Looking forward to your next insightful project.
Thank you for the kind words!
I personally like V12s when performing fast pieces because of their responsiveness and how bright and focused they sound, but I use Rue Lepics when playing slow pieces that require me to have a more dark, well rounded sound.
I like this approach, it’s hard to go wrong when you are tailoring your setup to the music!
This is the best review of Vandoren reeds in my opinion.
Best video on Reeds i have seen!
Thanks Magnus!
Just getting around to viewing some of your postings from last year. When i was doing my graduate work I played on the original Morre reeds from Marks Music in PA. I was a student of Joe Allard for 10 years and I would purchase the Morre reeds from him for $5 per box! When I finished studying with him in 1974 I purchased them directly from Mr. Marks. He would always carry on a conversation when you called to order them asking about your setup and what kind of playing you were doing. One time in driving to Cleveland, I stopped in the store in Farrell PA, and met Mr. Mark's son who was now running the store. The Morre reeds were no longer made but he told me he had a few boxes in the safe and he would sell me one box for $50. (yes, I did purchase it). A long set up to address the VD v12's. You know, I am sure, that they were to be based on the Morre reeds, but there was no comparison. The 2.5 12.6 mm Morres were many times like diving boards that required much work to get them to play. You were lucky to get 2 right out of the box that worked with minimal adjustment. When you did they were fabulous reeds with a rich, dark tone and great articulation, and they did last a long time before you discarded them. Luckily, the V12 reeds are not too hard and I do get many more usable reeds per box. They do not have the tonal quality of the Morre reeds. but that could be due to the growing conditions of the cane. An oboist who studied with Ronald Roseman in NYC was told by Roseman that reed cane could be judged by the equivalent wine vintage in a growing year. If the grape harvest was particularly good- buy cane from that year and make your reeds from that year. As clarinetists that purchase our reeds we do not have that luxury (or burden). I still play V 12s but occasionally go to the Rue 56, also Gonzalez FOF and D'Addario Reserve Classic. Thanks again for another great review.
What a great story! I never was able to try any of the original Morre reeds, but they were certainly legendary! Its an interesting idea about buying cane from years that had a particularly good grape harvest. It would be a cool thing for someone to test out over a long period of time! Thanks for sharing and for watching!
I tried out the v21, in all of the 10 reeds I got there wasn't a single 'dead' reed. I do think that the v21 is pretty smooth at the top register. I also think that they were better than the traditional because I was able to produce a better tone with them. I did progress way faster while using a box of v21 reeds than I did using traditional because the traditional had a lot of reeds that were airy, but the v21 allowed me to have a good tone and developed my techniques better. I haven't tried out the two others (why I watched this video), but I do think the v12 is the best one overall.
I liked the V21's best. In fact those are the ones I personally use!
I base my handmade reeds off of V21’s!
@@ParkHouseCreations they really are just so good aren't they?
For sure!
I just threw away dozens of V12s ... varied from 2 to 10 years old. I haven't been able to use them in decades. I gave away several new boxes to my clarinet teacher. They respond well but are buzzy and bright. When the V12s first made their debut, I immediately found them darker and nicer than the Blue Box, but less responsive. Now, they seem to have reversed roles. Maybe it's the cane or how it's processed. I switched to Pilgerstorfer Dolce and then to Reserve Evolution.
For me the V12's always seem to go through a huge transformation during my break-in process. If they stayed the way the played out of the box, I probably wouldn't play on them anymore. But I've been meaning to try the Pilgerstorfer Dolce's for literally years, you've reminded me that its time to finally order a box! Thanks for commenting and watching!
Traditional: 3:58, 4:58 6:03 8:05
V12: 4:14, 5:14 6:33 8:18
Rue Lepic 56: 4:29, 5:30 7:03 8:31
V21: 4:43, 5:45 7:33 8:43
Thank you!
@@rachelthedogmum You're welcome.😊
I take the 56s have done after years on traditional sand a brief go on v21s the V21s were good for jazzier music and the traditional are good allrounders but the 56s just are perfect for my expression are playstyle and allows for the higher register to be played with ease and passion
Thanks for watching and commenting! The 56’s are great!!
Brilliant project and video. I really appreciate the time you spent in reducing the variables to a minimum to make the trial as equitable as possible. Your playing samples were great. I could tell from your playing which you found harder or easier to play and which you like the best. But that was only a tiny margin. I would be interested to know about your setup? What is your mouthpiece, ligature and clarinet ? A review of mouthpieces and ligatures would also be fascinating. Thanks again - Excellent !!! I liked the sound of the V21 the best and the V12 the least !
Thanks Morag! I appreciate the kind words! My setup for this video was a refaced Vandoren BD5, a Buffet Tosca Clarinet, a barrel made for me by Eugene Mondie and a gold plated reverse bonade ligature. My setup changes video to video, but I try and make sure to always list what I’m playing on in the description! I definitely plan on doing more product reviews/comparisons in the future! Thanks for watching!
Listening a second time, I think the V21 and Rue Lepic remain the top two. Followed by V21 and then the traditional. But overall, a fantastic presentation.
Thanks for watching and commenting Joseph, I really appreciate it!
I use V12 and personally don’t like it. They start out nice and dark but after it gets bright, and I don’t like to sound bright. I listened to this without looking to pick which one I liked, I recognized the v12 right away lol. But yeah 56 sounded the best, it gave the dark, warmness I’m looking for. Thank you for the video!
I agree, the V12 definitely has a very recognizable sound! I am glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank you for your great informative videos and your analytical mind not just your musical mind. The Great Jack Brymer used to say if a perfect Reed was needed to set off an atomic bomb they come up with one but then he said that some sonics would say it was so perfect that it was impossible to duplicate it. Most young players and probably most players don’t realise that your enemy is humidity not Vandoren who put so much into their products I remember when I was a boy you were very lucky if you could find VanDoren if you did they came in boxes of 20 open to the elements. Since the number of years ago they changed their packaging they are better. We are looking for everything to be perfect I’m sorry to say but learning the craft of getting a great clarinet reed is an ongoing lifelong process
Best wishes and thanks once again. Bill. UK
Thanks for the review! This is very helpful-lots of variables
Thanks for watching and commenting! You’re right, there are so many variables!
My favourite for a solo performance is the traditional and for a large ensemble I like the v12’s because i find them louder
That sounds good to me!
Thanks for posting. I enjoyed the Reserve ones as well. I try to balance using Reserve and Vandoren mouthpieces, but I lean Reserve more.
My problem with the traditional is that I feel the tone is unbalanced. The presence of the lower over tones is too strong (not enough higher ones) and the core of the sound is not strong enough to really balance the sound properly.
I feel the V12’s provide a very balanced tone. There is a good blend of everything in it.
The Rue Lepic provide the color I feel works the best for pieces like Weber, Brahms, and other works around that time period. You get a lot of color. I love that sound the best personally even though I don’t really play that way much.
The V21’s lacked the color of the others altogether. It is a very core based tone that minimizes the overtones.
I was not either here or there on the articulation. I felt the V21’s had the most consistent response on each note even if the response was heavier than the others. I felt the Rue Lepic response was almost too easy a response - extremely light. The V12’s were a little lighter than the Traditional. It comes down to taste and music I would think.
For me, I have never had much success with the traditional. I don’t use them. I use V21’s and V12’s. I have added the Rue Lepic in for my personal enjoyment. They are not a preferred choice of the directors of the band programs around me, so I don’t recommend them to students. They can experiment with those in college.
Thanks, this video is the best about Vandoren Reeds.
Thanks Saulo, glad it was helpful!
By the way, congratulations to this awesome video! Very informative, making detailed comparisons, we can see your dedication to bring the best you can. Keep doing this, sure will be even more successful!
Terrific video by a super player. Very well done. Overall the V12 sounded the best to me (I may go back to them). V21 sounded duller than the rest. Traditional sounded brighter. 56 sounded warmer.
Thank you.
Great job.
Thank you for the kind words Jeff!
I like the sound of the v21 but the articulation of the rue lepic. In reference to what you played
Very good video. I have always used Traditional "blue box" reeds and have been too stubborn to try others, mainly because I'm just too used to blue box. I tried 21s but they didn't work with me. Will definitely give 12 and Rue Lepic a fair shot.
which were the best
I like the traditional and 56. They sound brighter to me. Don't like the airy sound of the V21.
Ya, I think the 56’s especially have a very clear sound!
Hey great video. I use V21 for the reasons that you mentioned. However, as you found out, despite what Vandoren says, they "feel" harder than the other reeds. So I use softer V21's. try one strength lower than what you use on V12.
Thanks for watching and the kind words! I plan on ordering some 3’s next time!
Great video,thanks. I thought you sounded the best on the V21. Very stable and even through all registers.
Could you please review the different shaped blanks of all 4 reeds?
Sorry could you clarify what you mean by review the different shaped blanks? Like how they differ in physical terms rather than sonically?
@@ParkHouseCreations thanks for getting back to me.
For example the 56 reed looks much more like a German cut reed, with a thinner width base and a tip more like the traditional Vandoren blue box.
The V12 has a less curved tip etc.
Which reeds have more wood in the heart of the reed?
Which reed has a firmer tip etc.
Which reed has a straight cut before the scrape, compared to a curved start to the scrape.
I hope these examples make sense.
Cheers J
For me, the V12 has a more intense, brilliant and clarinet unique sound. In opposition, the 56 has as much sound as the traditional; particularly, there's nothing special with it. The V21, in contrast with the first one, has a obscure, soft and perhaps not as loud and projected sound as V12. It's beautiful how it sounds, but it seems to be harder to make it louder.
I think this is a really well thought out analysis!While I disagree a little about the 56, I totally understand why you would say that. I think the attribute I enjoy the most when it comes to the 56 is a certain “roundness” and clarity to the sound. However, barring those attributes, you’re right, it is a relatively plain sound, especially in comparison to something like the V12. And thank you so much for the kind words!
I have to disagree with you on the 56, the feel of it completely different in how more sensitive you have to be as a player than traditionals. I love traditional sound but wanted something more reactive and could accent and have dynamics with. 56 works perfectly for me.
I find that the V-21s have not been at its best quality lately. I just bought a box and maybe two out of ten work well. That’s not a good investment; especially not in a almost recession.
I think overall the V-12s and the Rue Lepic 56 sound the best. I’ll be switching back.
V12 the best V21 the worst traditional and 56 are more or less equally acceptable.
Also slight strength difference in the cuts should be kept in mind.
V12 3.5 much lighter than traditional 3.5 thus to give a fair shot to different cuts the strength should be used accordingly.
Thank you for the video!
Thank you for commenting and watching!
Outstanding brother thanks for your time and expertise!!🙏🏻
I’m glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching!
I think the Rue Lepic sounds best if you are to be playing expressive solos- i.e. 1st clarinet in a late 19th/20th century orchestra, but the articulation response suffers. So for Mozart to Schubert/Mendelssohn era I think v12 is easily best. V21 seems to split the difference between these two. Traditional is a bit too spread a sound compared to the others. Would love to hear Rue Lepic in a jazz context (with softer setup). Great video!
My favorite was V12 and the least V21. A bit fussy the V21.
the 56's did sound nice. Traditional is lively.- any of these could be great depending on the setting (large ensemble vs. small), style of music (classical vs. Jazz), lig makes a difference too
吹き慣れてる感じなのはv12なのかな？と思いますが？V21の音好きでした😮好みですかね…使い慣れたらもっと良い音出せそうに感じたV21
Great video and thanks!! Its great there are people like you sharing his knowledge about reeds ;) I am expecting your breaking in reeds video!!
P.D. My favourite reeds are V12. The response for me are really good and the tone is more balanced compare to the rue lepic or V21
Thanks Alejandro! Reed break in video coming soon! I really like the balance of sound in the V12 as well, it just sounds complete.
For the Brahms I liked the Traditional more than the others. For the Mendelssohn I liked the V12 more than the others.
I wondered when someone would pick them! The traditional can create such a classic clarinet sound, its hard not to like it!
This is what I like on this video.
I have seen other videos where I
liked the 56 Rue Lepic more than
the other types of Vandorens.
Great job! Thank you very much for the research!
Thank you so much sir! - very helpful! 😊
I'm a doubler so this makes a difference too !
Ever tried V21 Austrian and Black Master reeds on Boehm mouthpiece? Vandoren says these could also match Boehm mouthpieces, so that's interesting! I think I'm gonna give them a try.. Already like rubbed V21 3 but rubbed on BD7.. Yes, even number 3 needs a little rubbing to play properly on BD7, but It really plays wonderfully when It gets right in strength!
I have tried the Black Master reeds and while I could get them to play, they seemed much less consistent than french style reeds with the mouthpiece I was using at the time!
@@ParkHouseCreations I previously asked Vandoren(Laurent Sultan) If maybe V21 Austrian could play well on BD7, but didn't recommend It. What do you think? They are as narrow as rue lepics but I don't like rue lepics. This time I'm starting to really like the normal V21. I got 2 before some months, they were little heavy. After breaking in, I left them to season some months, recently tried again, they were about as heavy as they were new. So, I took the decision to rub the back of them with A.L.E. I did rubbed gradually, little every time I play, they became both very good!! So, I'm thinking to take a V21 3 box anytime in the future.. I did the same process with 2 Traditionals I had. While they became from heavy to very good, V21 have more projection and core in the sound. I kinda refuse to play my V12s cause with BD7, sound becomes too warm, which is not good.. Though they're the most suitable reeds on it..
PS You sound great on them all of them but I bet they don’t all feel the same but you’re a musician that’s why you make them sound good God bless you Bill UK. PPS You’d probably sound good on a chair leg some of the legendary players of the past never heard all the stuff we have to do and yeah mate incredible music. Best wishes in your musical career!
I enjoy the V12 most.
Thanks!
Many thanks. Very helpful.
According to Vandoren's strength chart, the Rue Lepic 3.5 is a very soft 3.5, relative to their other reeds. Could this account for why you did not think it produced as big a sound as the others? I play Vandoren 3.5 Traditional or a V12 3.5+, and a #4 Rue Lepic seems closest to these for me. I have found the V21s to be very hard, relative to other Vandoren reeds of the same # strength, significantly harder than the Vandoren strength chart suggests.
I preferred the 56 the most, v12 sounded Alr when you were playing, I liked the V21’s tone, but it sound a little stiff...treads bleh imo
Ya, I’m still not sure why the V21’s were harder than the rest, Vandoren’s strength chart is usually pretty accurate. I’ve been meaning to get a second box to see if it was a fluke!
Thank You!
Thanks for watching!
V12 hands down. No competition there.
There definitely is a reason as to why I always seem to come back to them!
@@ParkHouseCreations They just have a special feel. Like just the right amount of resistance vs clarity and a very focused and even sound. It's like playing in a large 1800 seat hall that has the right amount of resistance to help you drive through all they way to the back seat on the third balkony.
Used lineaudio cm4 xy ?
This mic have a very natural sound
네! Lineaudio CM4 stereo pair in an XY setup about 1.8 meters high and about 1.5-1.8 meters away. I wish the room sounded a little better, but I’m sure I can find better rooms in the future!
The 56 rue lepic sound the best to me, with the traditionals in second. I don't care for the V12s or V21.
Thanks for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it!
The 56 sounds the best and the v21 is the most muttled. I think the v21 might be the best to learn on, covers up squeaks.
One comment on this nice review is that you didn't say too much about strength, and particularly its variations. I'm always surprised by how much fluctuation there is in this: in every box, a number of reeds will be way too soft and a number way too hard. I find having the right strength is maybe the top criterion in giving a reed the chance to sound reasonable - particularly, it's hard to do anything with a reed that's too soft. I didn't like the sound you got on the Traditional or 56 as much as the V12 or V21, but my main thought was that the Trad/56 sounded softer, and so I was left wondering if a slightly harder specimen of each would have given a more mellow sound like the V12/21 - but maybe the ones you played all felt equally hard? Finally, since people are voting, let me report that I've never found anything (Vandoren or otherwise) that matches a good V12.
Hey John, thanks for watching! This was one of my first videos and I wish I had found a better way of condensing/simplifying my results. I believe the last (very dry) 10 or so minutes is focused on what you are asking about. The charts I created for each reed type were intended to show how consistent each box of reeds was strength-wise. Each reed features a number from 0-10 that is intended to represent how hard the reed is: 0-4 being a gradation of too soft, 5 being just right, and 6-10 being a gradation of too hard. It also shows how each reed’s strength changes over the course of my break-in process. The charts are somewhat difficult to read and the section is boring, but I think the information you want is there. If I were to ever remake this video, this would be the first section I change lol! If I am misunderstanding, please let me know!
@@ParkHouseCreations Thanks for the fast reply. You indeed gave a comprehensive amount of information, including strengths - but I was particularly curious about the strengths of the reeds you chose to play: were they the average of each box, or did you try to match strengths? I know you said the 56's were softer on average and that you thought you liked that - but does that mean that you were aware that the V12 you played was harder? I just wondered how the comparsion would have sounded if you'd chosen one of the softer V12's (or indeed one of the stronger Trad/56's). If you did do that, then that would be interesting, as the Trad/56 both sounded softer than the V12/V21.
@@johnpeacock1469 Oh, I see what you're saying! Ya that's a good question. I knew going into the video that the strengths/resistances between reeds would most likely be considerably different, but I also wanted to put Vandoren's strength chart to the test. Since I knew the strengths/resistances would differ, I think I focused on picking the reed from each box that just played the best, regardless to how much harder/softer it was then the reeds from the other boxes. For me, I think there is a relatively wide range of strengths that still feel pretty comfortable for me. So to answer your question; I was aware that the average 56 was slightly softer than the average v12, but since I could get both of them to play the way I needed them to and still be comfortable, I was alright with that. But you're right, it would be interesting to repeat the comparison, but instead of focusing on the best reed from each box, I could instead focus on trying to pick reeds that essentially felt the same strength-wise. Thanks for the insightful comment/question, gives me something to think on!
Yes but compared to what? You said the BD5 was refaced. What’s the new tip opening & facing curve?
Hey John, good question! I agree it would have been nice to have a stock BD5 on hand just to give people a solid reference point, but unfortunately I didn’t have one on hand. I don’t have the numbers for the facing curve, but the tip was made more closed to around 1.08mm if I recall correctly. Though the majority of the work was done to the baffle. All in all, it still sounds like a BD5, just one that is more comfortable for me to play. Ultimately though, the mouthpiece wasn’t intended to be the focus at all. It was really just a test to show the differences between reed types (compared to each other) given that all the major variables were kept as uniform as possible. Please let me know if you have any other questions! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Sometimes I think I'll be in some kind of cult? Find the one that suits your mouthpiece and instrument. Then practice and play. It's all subjective and your own preference. Would usually have to adjust the reed in some way. During the 50s when I started to learn to play the clarinet we were taught to just reed on the top. I read in a book called woodwind instruments and the history by Anthony Bains that Viennese players signed at the bottom with the sandpaper on the glass. We usually capture single sided razor blade in a red box. VanDoren made one kind of read what we now call the blue box. If you could get them they were like finding gold! I believe that many of the read fields were destroyed in the war and it took some time to get the stock going again. The reeds seemed
What's the tip opening on your refaced mouthpiece?
I believe it was refaced to 1.08mm
Ps. Hard and in consistent. It was the thicker cut that gave what we thought was the better tone. Reeds came in boxes of 20 so they were also expensive Sometimes the reads came greenish colour because they had not been properly matured. My teacher the late James Joseph principal clarinet of the Northern Sinfonia Orchestra told me how some of the top players got boxes , and treat them and store them in cigar boxes in the attic. Thankfully we don't have to do this today. I have been Vandoren player for over 60 years and I think since VanDoren store them in the new packaging the recent reeds much better and consistent. I think all the reeds are fantastic from VanDoren it's just your own preference and you may use a different code in a different venue as well I have had two different kinds of Vandoren Reed refacers. Which are excellent as is the reed geek. But I find that I do not spend hours of time preparing reads like I used to do. I like to play them. When I was a boy I was taught to relieve the best reed for the concert or the examination. But I quickly found out that that was a myth because humidity affects the reeds. So I now use the best reed first. A bit like having The ice cream first at a meal. The Great clarinettist Jack Brymer once said commenting on the comment that there is no such thing as a perfect reed said if it took a perfect clarinet reed to set off a nuclear weapon the scientists would invent a perfect one, but then some cynic would say it was so perfect you couldn't duplicated. Interestingly we have the new synthetic reeds which some people swear by I suspect it's a matter of feel. It seems ironic that the whole world seems to be getting away from plastic but the world of woodwind instruments seems to be taking it on board. Who knows it's your choice. Thank you so much for examination of the various reeds. I am also appreciative of the VanDoren family who have dedicated their lives with excellent reed and mouthpiece productsI hope it helps you and many others. Sorry my previous comments went off before I could edit the spellings.- God bless you and everyone in 2021 and they will find at least one good reed !!! - Bill - UK
Thanks for the stories Bill, I’m glad you enjoyed the content!
I vote for the sound of the V12s, followed by Traditional, next is the 56s and finally the V21s ...
I need to start a running tally of these replies!
Do you or have you needed to finish these reeds? I have on quite authority that most reeds are flawed - or highly flawed - in some way, namely the wood is too thick in the base.
I very rarely work on reeds, typically only to make sure I have a few options for an audition. However, I do have a break in process and storage system that I religiously follow. The link to that video is in the description and I think would help explain my position!
@@ParkHouseCreations Please look at this video (and hopefully all of the others) th-cam.com/video/cRr82OkKTqM/w-d-xo.html . Though, I will test your breaking in process.
@@spartan.falbion2761 Ah, I see your source. A lot of people use the Ridenour system with great success! I myself used it for a time. However, for my own playing (I fully acknowledge that it could be different for others!) I found I sounded better and had less reed problems when I stopped using it. When I work on reeds now, which as I mentioned in the other video, is very seldom, I do much more detailed work on the reed than the ATG system calls for. I am planning on doing a video on reed making, maybe I can talk about some of this then, or perhaps in an additional video!
Traditional !
i think v21 are bad due to the profile of v12. every other reed is good but v21 n v12s in my opinion. They always sound airy and are harder to play on
As a consumer, I feel aggrieved, for buying a box with ten straws and only four of them are suitable for use, bad quality control by Vandoren
Maybe its my production approach or the break in process I use, but it seems I have much better luck with Vandoren reed than others in terms of how many reeds are playable out of the box!
You're lucky if you get 4 - I typically only get 2 from a box that I'd be prepared to play in public. But the good news is that it's not the same 2 for everyone. My teacher plays on the same reeds that I prefer (V12 3.5) and I realised he threw away the ones he couldn't get to work - so I asked if I could have this "junk". The success rate is lower than with new reeds, but I still get at least one concert standard reed from a box of 10. And the ones I can't get to work, I pass on to a local youth band. I wonder how many players recycle in this way and help each reed find someone who will like it?
Why are we adjusting to reeds rather than adjusting the reeds to play easily for us? Really it's a matter of what cut and strength of reed is going to take the least amount of time to balance and adjust so that it fits us. Chart keeping is time that could be spent practicing or doing just about anything else in my opinion! :)
I respect that! I would just like to clarify that I only made that chart for the purposes of this video, it’s not something I normally do. With my break-in method I spend virtually no time needing to balance and adjust reeds as I find most reeds play acceptably after they’ve been broken in without extra work. The only time I might break this rule is when I’m preparing for a major audition or concert. Ultimately, I find this lets me spend basically all of my clarinet time practicing, when I’m not making videos of course!
Halelujah well said 👏👏👏👏
Knowing how to work on reeds should be part of learning the clarinet.
@@klarinetta indeed. All my students from 7th grade on up are offered the opportunity to be equipped and trained unless they are late beginners. Most take advantage of the opportunity.
This is a bit ironic because adjusting reeds is also time that could be spent on practicing (and so is watching this video and commenting vs making a chart for educational purposes for others). I think it's a balancing act of knowing both how to do basic adjustments and also knowing what cuts work for you in specific circumstances. Saying one is better than the other is kind of silly, imho.