How to fix your cr10, cr10s, mini tornado, ender, A10 and others jamming or under extruding.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2018
- How to fix your cloned all metal "E3Dv6" hot end when using PLA.
BE SURE to check the PTFE tube in the hotend - if it's malformed cut it and re insert it correctly to have no gaps. Also check the PTFE release is working and locking or else replace it.
This applies to almost all of the E3Dv6 clones.
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Gearbest currently have a flash sale for the Ender-3 It is $189.99 USD!
t.co/1bsazHyyuh
BE SURE to check the PTFE tube in the hotend - if it's malformed cut it and re insert it correctly to have no gaps. Also check the PTFE release is working and locking or else replace it.
For most of the creality line u can get a micro Swiss kit and most of the E3 clones micro Swiss has the throat for sale to install if the stock throat is not machined properly
question here... I'm about to receive an Ender 3 in the mail, should I use this on my hot end before even using it, as I assemble it. How often to reapply if any?
Use as is until your replacements parts arrive - then you will see your homemade Improvmements once you use a quality ptfe and ideally a microswiss Nozzle
I know this is an old video, but I was wondering. As a reloader, we frequently use moly (molybdenum disulfide) based dry film lubes on match bullets. Can you think of any reason that would be inappropriate in an all metal hotend?
I think I missed that sale, lol
One of the major problems with All Metal Hot Ends is over retraction. This is a subject that is rarely discussed. I changed to an all metal hot end of my own design/construction and until I found a fairly obscure article about retraction for the all metal hot end, my printer was almost useless. I was using PETG and running 3.5mm retraction on a PTFE equipped ENDER 3, when I went to the all metal HE, I had to reduce my retraction to about .25 - .30 to stop the thing from jamming. Same filament, same model, same G-Code the only thing that changed was the hot end and the retraction setting. The retraction problem only becomes worse as the extruder temps get higher, since the puddle of hot plastic is larger and the plastic is less viscous and is easier to eventually suck back up the heat break. When I pulled the stuck filament from the heat break, it was clear that this was what was happening. The jammed portion was about 2.5 - 3.0 mm long, almost exactly the difference in the two retraction settings in the slicer. I am going to treat my Hot End with this for an extra layer of security and to make the printer more reliable at high temperatures.
After having HUGE issues printing with my Creality CR-20 (After many successful prints) I discovered the same issue with my printer with massive clogs that I couldn't figure out. In the end this saved my sanity and things are working perfectly again. Thank you so much.
The spray is only rated to 230C, so make sure you don't print much hotter than that or it might break down and end up clogging the hot end.
I'll let you mix my drink any day.
Thank you for your service to the 3d printing community. You've helped me know how to solve problems before they happen.
Thanks
How often do you have to repeat this?
I've heard that you need to "season" all metal hot ends, especially clones by using a filament oiler. Benefit of using an oiler is that it won't run out and need hot end dismantling.
So do you remove small ptfe tube in heat break or leave in and then spray?
This is such a good idea! I was about to throw away my all metal hotend because it keeps jamming with PLA. This PTFE spray may save my all metal hotend from the garbage can! Hurrah to you! Thank you!
For those in Oz Bunnings has the WD-40 version for $14
I had exactly this problem with my davinci, thank for the fix info
Thanks for the tip. Great presentation 👍
Sweet. I was wondering why on my mini the dam thing just keeps clogging up. I dont have that problem on any of my other printers.
Just a FYI, PLA will only stick to the inside of an all metal hotend if there is not enough cooling on the heatsink. Fix the cooling issue over the heatsink and you won't need to play around with the hotend.
Hi man, how could I improve or solve cooling issue on my Ender 3?
Wow, thanks for sharing 😀👍
Fantastic information. Thanks
Another dry lubricant that is starting to become popular with 3d printing is Tungsten Disulfide. E3D appears to be experimenting with it on their heatbreaks and nozzles to prevent filament from sticking to them.
Doing this on an all metal hotend is a terrible idea if you're actually looking to use it for hotter temps than 240. PTFE when heated past 240 releases toxic gases.
The point is for people who print PLA through all metal.
He addressed that in the video, the part where he was saying they even use these on printers without heated beds
fix the cooling of the heatsink and you won't have PLA stick.......
Printing ABS releases stuff that isn't great either. Just make sure you're ventilated. Toxic vapours are harmless enough in very small doses. Just don't go rubbing your nose over it for a full 21 hour print and you should be fine. I mean when you fill up your car with petrol there are harmful vapours which you are breathing in. When you get an X-ray it is bad for you, but as long as exposure is limited you will recover just fine.
I'm sure a thin film of PTFE won't hurt anyone when it heats up. it's not like he's evaporating a whole can of the thing all at ounce... chill out.
The point of not exceeding certain temperatures in ptfe-lined hotend throats is that ptfe gasses out toxic stuff when it gets too hot. So the only advantage of the spray in a full-metal throat over a ptfe-lined throat is that the hot end doesn't need disassembly. Otherwise, same temperature restrictions apply. Even worse, maybe, because the ptfe in the nozzle will be hotter than in the throat.
I ordered a clone V6 hot end and then just a genuine heat break (£13) and nozzle from E3D directly. I also have two other heat breaks, one PTFE lined and another that's hollow allowing Capricorn high temp tubing to go all the way down to the nozzle.
Where did you get the hollow one (or keywords for search), and how well did that work out?
So, should this only be done with aftermarket all-metal hot ends? I still use the stock hot end that came with my CR-10 and I'm dealing with a lot of underextruding and extruder skipping. Should I PTFE spray a stock hot end?
I dig my cr10 s5. Though there are a few things that piss me off. Such as their idea of how to market a printer as being ideal for printing anything, and showing a list of all the plastics. Yet, to print common ABS requires a heatbed capable of reaching 110c. However on the cr10 s5, you can be expected to wait until reindeer can fly, before it will ever reach that temperature on its own. Sure you can hit it with a propane based construction heater, maybe a ruby laser, yet without those you will be expected to wait the better part of close to an hour to experience heat levels approaching over 80c, and never close to 110c, unless you park the thing in Granada underneath a fresnel lens.
Show idea: Upgrading the cr10 s5 head bed using a MOSFET and an additional 20v external power supply (such as found with laptop power supplies)
That would make it reach 110c and result in no more cracking of the teeth over peeling up edges of prints after a few hours into a print thus wasting not just time, but also materials.
Also, you'd think heatbed built plates would have evolved enough to not require dollar store metal clips to keep the glass in place on them. Lol, can you imagine if window installers considered that a job well done?
Hope your back is feeling better now. I can empathize too well with those sorts of challenges due to mild dystonia st and a 39% curved spine. However, I do still feel lucky and happy to be here! (Would help if they made weed legal though)
Vulcan high5's from a field in Canada \V/_
you are correct - I had a lot of trouble with my Folgertech FT5 R1 trying to get the bed heated past 60c. I installed a 12v silicone heat pad and mosfet. It now heats to 80c in 3 minutes.
Will the existing heat-bed get there with 20V?? The only real solution seems to be the $200 204v/110v heated pads.
Is it insulated on the bottom? if not it's a cheap upgrade and will help considerably. My ender 3pro, a 24volt system with a 235x235 bed actually takes significantly longer than a 305x305 12volt bed I had on an otherwise worthless printer. That is the difference bottom insulation made on it. This is going from 21c to 60c times. Perhaps the next 40-60c warm up will benefit less, but it should still benefit.
One of the major culprits of an all metal hotend clogging is the PTFE tube connection. After time the retraction causes it to loosen. That let's the tube move up and down creating a gap at the top of the heatbreak.
The fix for this is to install a clip into the tube holder. This holds the plastic ring in the up position. This keeps the tube from moving.
True E3D hotends come with this clip. Clones do not and must be purchased/printed.
Hi, I am new to 3d printed and I am not entirely sure what you mean by the clip. Are you able to give examples of one that I could buy or print?
Clones now comes with better clips and an extra 1 meter ptfe tube. Just keep looking.
@@lgflanang You talking about Colette?
Very good video, thanks for uploading
Thank u learned soooo much from this
BTW even some "genuine" all metal hot ends suffer from this problem. If you intend printing material that requires temps. hotter than 230c the spray could melt but would clear the hot end easily and quickly. If you went back to PLA you would have to re-apply.
I have been having this problem constantly even changing different hotends. It would start printing well but after a while they start feeding funny and then i would get a part that looked like it it air whip plastic. So now the question is, my kits have both full metal breakers or ptfe lined ones. Which is more likely not to jam?
dont it get into the nozzle and wont that keep the nozzle from getting maximun heat to the filament?
Don't you think this PTFE spray will block the extruder nozzle?
I also want to resolve my clogging issue. I have my CR10s, my filament does not move ahead. Also its really difficult to remove the nozzle from the extruder.
But doesn’t the Teflon tube filament guide pass all the way through the hot end and stop at the nozzle? At least it doesn’t on the CR-10s.
Your awesome. Thank you
I checked various manufacturers of PTFE sprays and some are rated up to 100°C (some 220°F) only. Make sure to check this before you buy!
Great! Thanks!
You show how the spray is only rated to 450f, thats only 232c. Not sure how you expect this stuff to handle hot temp materials. I don't know if they changed their design or if your cr10s has a different setup than my stock ender 3, but my ptfe tube runs all the way through the heat break and would render this spray useless anyways. Cool video though, I didn't know about ptfe spray at all and have some ideas for it
Do you think something like this applied to the outside of the print nozzle could help with keeping PETG from sticking to the nozzle while printing?
good idea, give it a try.
yes that makes sense...like none stick on a frying pan.. did it help??..i also have that issue with petg...
This does put an upper range for prints at less than 230 degrees Celsius
Do you recommend removing your nozzle before spraying down the hatch?
doesn't matter either way.
@@Johkarphotos Did the throat and the nozzle. My ender3 Chinese volcano is running like a champ. Thanks.
Long vid but it was Legendary
Thanks John, great advice. I founf that WD40 have a similar product for 20 bucks, plus the advantage of having a precision spray nozzle.
Or just lower your retractation so the molten PLA does not go above the heat break, never had an issu with this.
What's about Ti all-metal heat breaks? I've ordered some "good one" (claimed). I've heard that it's better to polish them inside. Will I still need to oil it with a PTFE spray? My plans are about PETG mainly (maybe HT PLA in future).
anyone who doesn't like all metal just doesn't know how to tune retraction. 0.8mm@40mm/s is a good starting point for all metal/direct drive, closer to 1.2@35 if it's all metal with a bowden system.
@@butre. Thanks for the reply! Actually I'm gonna re-assemble the hot end when I'll get to it. The last time printing was stopped with partial clogging. I don't know about the reason. My guess is that cooling is not enough for Ti-heatbreak. Really not sure though!
Hi John, do you find that this fix has a lifetime to it?
I have 3* Cr-10 printers and an Ender-3. All have the same hot-end and the same issue from the factory. Printer works beautifully for a period, but eventually every one has succumbed to the same issue, usually during a long print, where it under-extrudes severely - sometimes dropping the speed 50% 'fixes' temporarily.
My previous solution was similar to you - pull out the PTFE tube, re-cut the end to be 100% perpendicular, straight cut, remove the nozzle, 4mm drill bit to clear through, brand new nozzle, and new pneumatic connector. Right, everything works perfectly, job done - except that now, all 3 of my Cr-10 printers have just failed one after the other with the same issue - seems that fix has a lifetime. As I know the end is cut perfectly, seems either the PTFE-pneumatic connector joint is getting loose and allowing a crack were hot filament can squeeze out - or the PTFE at the heatbreak is degrading.
So trying to understand better what your fix is adding - is it that there is no air gap between PTFE tube and heatbreak/heatsink? So it is better cooled? Is it 'gluing' the PTFE tube in, and preventing a gap from developing? Is the PTFE in the spray better quality/more temperature resistant than the Creality supplied tube?
How long have you had your printer running with this fix, have you had to repeat it?
Many thanks, for the interesting workaround, nicely presented.
Cheers
Alex
You can print clips that fit into the end of the couplers to help secure the tube in place. On thingiverse: "Bowden tube coupler clip". Hopefully you have already resolved this issue, but just in case.
Great thanks for the tip
Ibhave tried some clones and they all suffered from heat creep. Bad thermal properties. I have manually polishied the throats which is ok. But this seems eaiser, how long does the coating last ?
I have printed for over 60 hours and it is still going strong.
Subbed up!
do you have to have it clean before you spray it?
Try with / without cleaning
Or you know... You could just buy an original hotend from E3D or Micro Swiss. You save on time and material that may have been used on failed prints. They are probably way cheaper on the long run.
Well, I rather combine more ways, how to achieve success printing with all-metal HE. First, insulation! Just wrap your heat block into Kapton tape (or in case of 260+°C temperatures some glass fiber insulation) to reduce heating up of the heat sink by radiation + wrap heat break thread into Teflon tape, it reduces heating of heat break by conduction. Hope this approach will work for my 3d printer.
Hello, I have A Creaity CR-10 with Dual Z Axis motors. The z axis goes up and down when homing but will not go up when printing. Is this a problem with my machine or am i doing something wrong in Cura ?
If the Z moves ok via LCD controls then I would suggest it is either the model file or your Cura settings.
UPDATE: Nope, I got too excited too soon! My big job got about 90% of the way complete and then the nozzle jammed. It got a lot further than it has gotten before, but I think that the spray gets rubbed off by the filament as it prints large jobs. I ended up ordering an E3D Lite6 nozzle. Hopefully, that genuine nozzle will solve my problems.
Buying genuine is always the best option if you can afford it
Hi my cr-10 says its at 210 but its not and won't melt pla because the hotend is not actually hot enough, iv replaced the hole hotend, heat element and thermistor as still not working if its something inside of the control box can you tell me what needs replacing or what to look for and how so I can fix it please
SOTK SHADOW I’m not an expert but you might want to look at updating the firmware on on printer
Good to know, thanks John. Have you been using the PTFE long enough to have an idea how long each application lasts before re-applying is needed?
I well remember the first time I bought a can of silicone spray (over 40 years ago)... it said on the can it could be used to free up sticky timber drawer runners, so I gave our heavy cutlery drawer a liberal dose to amaze my new wife. She hadn't been home from work long when there was a bloody great crash, and a piercing scream from the kitchen! OOPS! :o)
Love your videos, I'll give this stuff a try. (Silicone is brilliant for curtain tracks, by the way.)
What's the point of it? you use an all-metal hotend to print at higher temps but that higher temps going to make that PTFE spray off-gas and potentially poison you, so you stick to the 230 degrees, you might as well have stuck with the stock hot-end, I reckon that at some point that spray-on PTFE is going to stop working so you are going to have to clean it out before re-applying it, not my idea of fun!
I forgot to mention I'm talking about an Ender 5 the new CR series come with a stock all-metal hot-end
many clones have a metal hot-end-break that contains a PFTE tube; this is bad for three reasons 1) jams 2) off-gassing of Teflon 3) limited temperature range. E3d has a full metal heat-break, better machining, they use better materials, they even texture materials where needed.
yes and a great product - the copies not so much.
My i3 Mega comes with a V5 hotend that allows PTFE tubing all the way through the throat to the nozzle. However, some spare V5 hotends with a blue-topped pneumatic coupler I picked up allow PTFE only to the top of the heat-sink. A PTFE-lined throat is to be used with this. I purchased some 4.1mm ID throats and lined them with 22mm of Capricorn PTFE. Now, instead of running expensive Capricorn PTFE all the way from the extruder to the nozzle of the hotend, I need only a 22mm-section to line the throat. I am planning to use this setup at my next hotend change and am hoping it will work as expected. For a regular 3mm ID throat, I sanded the OD of Capricorn PTFE down to 3mm, but I much prefer to do without the sanding and just use 4.1mm throats.
Kind of a bad example as the creality hot ends are nothing really like an E3D, nor all metal. The ptfe tube runs directly to the nozzle orifice, completely thru the heat break. This is why when paired with the capricorn tubing which is rated up to 300C, it makes a great combination for high temp printing needs. It cant stick to the inside of the heat break and at no time, does the filament come into contact of the heat break with the creality printer family including the enders, cr10 and its variants, and any using that same style of hot end.
example of how the creality hot ends are set up, ptfe direct to nozzle. Unless your overheating the ptfe, you should have no feed issues that are related to the heatbreak, or you havent properly seated the ptfe to the nozzle orifice solidly. www.thingiverse.com/make:411424
Also why "upgrading" to an all metal hot end on the creality machines really is a downgrade vs simply switching to capricorn ptfe which is rated for the heat and gives all the benefits of all metal, without the issues of PLA sticking to the throat.
You are correct - possibly a poor choice to show but it was the first printer I grabbed. Having said that, the spray is also great in this type of hot end as it gets down into the nozzle as well and it is a definite improvement on all the printers I have used it on.
Matt Weber this right here the reason you might get skipping on a CR 10 type hotend is if that PTFE tube is not fully inserted creating a tiny gap between the end of the PTFE tube in the hot end where filament can sit and cook off eventually causing a jam or under Extrusion so make sure the bottom of that PTFE tube is nice and straight and flat and make sure it is fully inserted in fact look down the whole first of the light and make sure there's no filament in there
The end of the PTFE tube can get a little grungy like you see in his example on the video and this will eventually cause Extrusion issues especially if you're using abrasive filaments or higher-temperature filaments
The maintenance is as you see snip off the end make it clean put it back in and you're good for another couple thousand hours of printing
That example was the stock un modified hot end and PTFE - after 24 hours of printing PLA only. More than likely it wasn't seated correctly from the factory - and I've had this exact problem with at least 5 printers using the same hot end
No good for me. Almost all of my prints are PETG and 450 degrees F is only 232 degrees C.
I don't understand why you can only take it apart when hot this is the second vid I have seen that said this. Also to take the tube out and just spray into it without cleaning out all the plugged filament makes no sense unless I missed something.
Most solids expand when heated and contract when cooled.
The filament will be globbed at the end of the ptfe, usually a stretched part then an expanded blob but still attached
My 2 printers arrived the same day you replied to my question. Before they did I watched every video I could to get ready for printing. Up until now the printing community has been very nice and even to say that there are no stupid questions. To respond to me with a 4th grade science class review which I remember quite well even from 55 years ago I thought was a bit smug. If you meant that the nozzle and coupler are easier to remove that's what I was thinking and that's all you had to say. Since I haven't even touched a printer yet I wanted to make sure there wasn't something like the filament turns to stone once cooled or something that I am unaware of. Well one printer I sent to somebody that might like a surprise gift and the ender pro sits unopened in the basement. Thanks from a disappointed noob.
Just use filament filter so u dont get the dirt inside in the first place.
Like our other video
th-cam.com/video/x0t1dtIn-kY/w-d-xo.html
Hope for your sake its not teflon spray you are using. that will give you some problems whit off gassing nerve gass of sorts
Um... no. This is not an all-metal hotend. This is a PTFE lined hotend. The PTFE goes to the nozzle, not the heatbreak. Snipping the end of your PTFE is how you cause clogs because you're deforming the end of the tube, use a PTFE cutter (print one or TH3D or others sell specialized cutters with a razor on the end). I may be having problems with my printer at the moment but I'm doubting this solution due to the sheer amount of ignorance that has been stated only 60% way through the video.
They all look the same? Maybe you should get better glases.
How about trying to get IT work properly before using any shit to make it work?
All you need to polish the throat is some toothpaste and some string and 5 minutes of work.
Apply some Thermal compound in the threat that goes in the cooling fins and ad a better fan.
Or just buy a high quality throat and noozle ( 30 $ ) and you get a good working hotend.
It's somewhat disingenuous to call them knockoffs, clones or copies as it implies something nefarious is happening. Many of the hot ends by E3d and others are open source and are available for anyone to make, use, and sell. I think calling them generic open source hotends is more accurate. Otherwise very good video.
If you are correct then my mistake, however I think E3D and MicroSwiss are proprietary.
From some googling I see no documents that say anything about open source for the e3d. Happy to be shown otherwise
E3D is all open-source but only for non-commercial uses. The Chinese products are not legal.
A lot of the Chinese sellers falsely advertise "full metal" and "genuine" when they're obviously not. They are selling knock-offs that aren't even properly made.
it is "genuine" in that it was designed by e3d, and that they used the freely available technical drawings to make the product. Some may make slight modifications though, and some of those modifications may or not be beneficial. However the overall design is still usually compatible and visually similar, if they were fruit you would say they both look like apples, though the UK apple may taste better then the Chinese apple. Both apples taste similar enough to bake an apple pie for most people.
Good tip, but skip to 5:20 at least.
Buy PTFE Dry Lub, spray it in the extruder pipe, should have been a 2 minute video.
You are mixing facts regarding all-metal hot ends with what is installed as standard on a CR10 which has PTFE tube all the way down through the heatsink, partly into the heat block and touching the nozzle. It couldn't get further away from an all-metal hotend if you tried. How does spraying ptfe spray into the heatsink make any difference when your sliding ptfe tube all the way though it anyway. Also your dont want to be cutting PTFE tubing with a pair of side cutters as you will flattern it.
Most all metal hot ends do not have a drilled hole to fit PTFE tubing.. The tubing sits on top, then they have a smooth tight tolerance fit for your filament to slide through, the point of this video is that knock offs are not tight tolerance and they have a rough surface finish where the filament slides in, another option to completely remove the need of using this spray is to get a very small ~1.5mm polishing brush and carefully smooth out the filament hole.
@@alabaska182 The hot end he is working on isn't an all metal hotend, it has ptfe tubing all the way to the top of the nozzel. The information in this video is not relevant to the printer he has in front of him.
No, there's a version of the E3DV6 that is a 1.75mm bore, the PTFE tubing does not go into the heatsink block, it stops just before it.
Why does everyone write "underextruding" as two separate words? Please help bring back word joinery and visual reading. Please help save the English language. Understand? Good writing is underappreciated these days. I can't overemphasize this. It's sadly undervalued.
who is the genius buy a full metal hotend to print pla?
Yeh most people don't have a dedicated per filament printer so it's very normal for someone to print several filaments via one nozzle
@@TheHotEndChannel but we can say the ptfe spray can clog the hotend if it create a film in the nozzle
So can any filament if you don't clean it #facepalm
The is an insult to the engineering