Sarah Dessen | AUTHORS BEHAVING BADLY
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2022
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So she’s all about empowering women’s voices and women’s stories, but encouraged thousands of people to specifically bully one woman completely out of Twitter and take away her voice?? The math ain’t mathing
The author community is honestly a giant clique first and foremost; they defend each other and ignore readers/fans criticism or concerns until it gets too big to ignore it anymore. I’ve noticed it more over the last 3-5 years especially from YA and romance authors. They’re so comfortable in their echo chamber
I’m reminded of every time people were rightfully dunking on and lambasting Chuck Wendig for suing the Internet Archive and every author imaginable trying to defend him trying to torch a veritable library of Alexandria because like 7 people pirated his shitty star wars book
Maybe…but I’m not sure if readers concerns are that important if its just not liking the material within a book. Just stop reading it if you don’t like it or if it offends you. Not that big of a deal. But yeah, if you’re going to put a book out there, people are going to criticize it.
But the thing is reviews aren't for the authors. That's been said many times on this very channel and I agree. That's not to say authors don't have to make conscious efforts to improve but it doesn't really include regretting books that are already out that you can't change. It's about finding the right beta readers and being self critical to a healthy degree and workshops and stuff. That said I agree that these echochambers are bad, especially given how some books turn out, but I would attribute that more to how hard it is to resist forming an echochamber and listening only to your friends etc. Rather than not spending enough time on review sites. If only authors spent LESS time on review sites.
@@wattthefaqameye1146 I wasn’t referring to reviews! I agree that reviews aren’t for the authors, I was referring to concerns readers have about an authors behavior or criticisms of other issues that involve the author (maybe something in the book was problematic and they want the author to know for example)
@@wattthefaqameye1146 It so easy to ignore amateur reviews that I don’t understand why authors can’t do it and, worse still, why some make fun of or complain about reviews publicly. Keep that in the group chat. I’m an author-illustrator and I never look at reviews. It’s not my business! And publishers *do not care* about goodreads reviews!
watching this again and wanted to add that this whole dogpile/doxxing of nelson has an extra layer of irony on it given that while this was happening she was doing her masters thesis on ONLINE BULLYING AND HARASSMENT. so this was just. timely. like wow thanks for helping her get more data for her thesis I guess!
No way!
😲
Oof, that's a heavy dose of irony. But at least she didn't have to put out effort on sourcing data and i hope she wrote her paper and got a good mark :)
I mean, good thesis material!
If a slightly rude remark taken out of context was all it took to make that many authors act up, I hate to imagine how they respond to full-on criticism 💀
I actually refuse to read Dessen’s books because of this logic. God forbid people have valid opinions and reasons not to like your book. Nobody should be harassed like that for having an opinion on books. And I’d read several of her other books, too. But I don’t want to get dog piled like that. No thanks. I’ll take a shorter TBR instead.
Seriously, when you put creative works out you have to do it with the understanding that it will be criticised and if you're so obviously incapable of taking criticism and feel the need to get your pals to cuss out a college student maybe you're in the wrong profession
It makes me wonder if these people ever had a writing teacher who actually challenged them, or if all their creative assignments got comments like "Wow, great writing! Keep it up!" from bored tenures who just couldn't be bothered anymore.
i refuse to engage with ANYONE who didnt back down on this topic, it really does show their true colours
Exactly this
Wasn't Dessen also like, 50 or almost 50 when this happened? Yes, the comment was, even in context, a little immature, but imagine being a 20-something just living your college life while someone old enough to be your mother subtly encourages her equally old clique of author friends to dunk on you on Twitter 😭 Mortifying behaviour.
A twentysomething having an internal "conversation" with fellow college students without training in PR, a marketing staff, or a national platform unlike one of the rare traditionally published authors making a living writing novels.
That's what appalled me. A 20-year-old with an opinion gets dumped on by a mature successful author and all of her powerful friends. This was truly shameful.
@@kristinegallagher6437 While they had the audacity to talk about how women and girls are being silenced.
As someone in their 7th year of university who is aiming to be an English professor, I sincerely doubt that Sarah Dessen would even appear on a post-secondary syllabus for specifically YA literature. Generally, professors like to pick texts that make the students think and generate meaningful discussion/analysis, and Sarah's books are just too light/fluffy for that. Which isn't a bad thing! Those kinds of books definitely have their place and have value - but not really in a university classroom, under most circumstances. Sarah and the other authors' reactions to someone very reasonably saying "her books are not appropriate for this setting/purpose" are really extreme and vitriolic.
And I hate that they are acting like the school has some kind of vendetta against YA lit, because there are definitely YA books that tackle important topics and therefore would fit nicely into a college/university curriculum! My favourite example would be The Marrow Thieves by Cherie Dimaline, which I've both read for class and taught in a class (at two separate universities, for that matter). It is an Indigenous dystopian YA novel that deals with the legacy of residential schools and colonialism in Canada - so, it leaves room to talk about Indigenous culture and issues, post-colonialism/colonialism, the dystopian fiction genre, trauma in literature, minority literature, environmentalism/eco-criticism, identity (particularly related to language, culture & community), etc., etc. THAT is the type of YA novel that would be (and is!) assigned at the post-secondary level.
Sorry for the essay, clearly I got a little heated about this LOL
I used to see Sarah Dessen everywhere when I was in high school. It felt like the library was half her books. It’s pretty gross that a white author was complaining that a book by a black author about racial injustice got picked over her. She’s already a very popular author so it’s not like she needs the exposure. She shouldn’t expect her books should be picked for a school curriculum especially when her perspective as a white woman is already over represented in the literary world and schools should carve out space for black and brown voices to be heard instead of awarding more space to an able bodied straight white woman.
Yeah her sense of entitlement is on full display here. Makes me sad because I did really like a couple of her books as a teen.
That is 100% why she left that context out when she first complained about having her feelings hurts. She knew that it was wrong on some level, but the entitlement was just too strong!!
This I wanted to comment this but damn sis you hit every nail !
my guess is someone sent her that snippet as a "wow look at what this asshole said" and she ran with it to twitter. i think we can at least TRY to step into this authors shoes before making so many assumptions against her character. how do you know she wanted the exposure? maybe she wanted the respect? you're putting so much intention into her (stupid) actions for no reason. she did a horrible thing by going to twitter, but that doesn't mean she did it because shes just some white woman who needed the spotlight. you know, ppl on the internet are humans not just some caricature.
@HEЯOINE i- this entire thread is yall putting intention behind her actions. so ofc im gonna say maybe before making her intentions out to be EVIL give her some grace and see it from her perspective. i'm not absolving her from the horrible shit she did to that girl. also idk how old you are but you're gonna have to grow out of this silly mindset that individuals speak for their own anchestral line at some point in your life.
dessen DID acknowledge her privilege in her apology and she wasn't attacking black or brown ppl in her tweet, so idk wtf you're going on about.
Lol the people coming to bat for Sarah Dessen at the beginning was comically dramatic, especially the "YoU'vE sAvEd LiVeS"
They were all such catty bullies… I feel so sorry for the person who just wanted non-fiction stories they thought would be beneficial for the college. 😔
Did any of the authors that responded the Desson actually read the article or research the topic? It’s crazy that they were so ready to attack a college student over her opinion.
So, basically, what happened was, she got a SLIGHTLY mean comment from a college student (who honestly I can see where they're coming from I dunno if any of her books are the pinnacle of YA that DESERVES to be on the Common Read list, especially over such an important real life story that deserved a spotlight) and threw a pity party for herself. Come on, girl.
When I was a teen, I read some Sarah Dessen books and enjoyed them, but after reading like 3 of her books I started to realize... they are all the same book. They're okay as far as I remember, but very formulaic. It's probably been 10 years since I last read anything by her.
I didn't know this happened, and honestly find her behavior a bit bizarre - she seems almost weirdly entitled about not being selected for this arbitrary and random thing. Like - this one college student doesn't like your books and doesn't want them selected for this particular thing. So what? I think maybe she should have talked about this in therapy or vented to a friend rather than going to Twitter about it lol
She’s like the YA Nicholas Sparks
When Rachel mentioned Jodi Picoult, I had the exact same thought about her. 🤣 I've never read Sarah Dessen, but it sounds like I don't need to!
Even as an author, (I am an author), you need to have some perspective about what your books are trying to accomplish. There's nothing wrong with writing fun, escapist books. But it's absurd to state that a fluffy rom-com is appropriate for a book that's designed to provoke serious, critical discussion within a college community via a Common Read. There's this weird attitude that I've only seen on YA or Romance twitter that any criticism at all of even the most formulaic example of the genre is hating on young people or women. And kind of insulting.
@@marypagones6073 There are definitely some fun escapists books but I wouldn’t call all Sarah Dessen books all fun escapists romances.
You're 100% right
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't even see an issue in the screenshot Dessen originally posted. Regardless of the context, stating that Sarah Dessen's books are "good for teen girls" doesn't feel mean to me. She's not saying the books are garbage or terrible, she just said they're good for the INTENDED target audience - which is a good thing as there should be books that are suitable for teen girls. I understand the issue of how people always shit on what teenage girls like, I just think this situation was not a good example of that. Then you add in the context of how this was a book selection for a college curriculum, and it makes the whole situation even weirder to me. Sure a YA book could be selected for that, but it would probably be one with relevant social or political commentary (like The Hate U Give). Idk, what a huge mess over an old article for a small university though... 🥴
Right? It reads more “We are college students so I think we should be reading books for older audiences” and not “Books for teen girls are inherently stupid and bad.”
Yes, my first thought was "what is Common Read?". These people were throwing down a ton of judgement before looking into what was being said in the article.
Honestly if I get into college in the US and one of the recommended reading list is a book about a love triangle, I'd really question things.
@@Tamaki742 especially if I found out the alternative was a memoir on social Justice issues that could involve the real person impacted as a speaker! I’d be livid tbh because college isn’t cheap
@@hellokittykillz5636 Yeah! Like 1 USD is now around 15k my currency (lowest denomination on our notes is 1k don't get alarmed), I'd hate having to pay hundreds of millions to end up reading triangle romance.
I can't believe Angie Thomas didn't apologize
Or Dhonielle Clayton since she actually tried to play dumb and act like she was being critiqued for using the word bitch and not because she insulted this woman for having an opinion.
@@andiman44 to this day I refuse to read her books
As an author, I really enjoy your Authors Behaving Badly series. It shows how NOT to behave. I try to stay in my little corner and mind my own.
Good idea
I'm sorry, but if I were paying for a college education, and was told I had to read a YA romance novel, I'd have been frustrated and annoyed too. I don't see anything wrong with what the student said. Did she word it diplomatically? No. But she wasn't disparaging teen girls and what they like. Anyone saying she was is reading too much into it. I get that teen girls and their interests are often maligned unfairly but that history might be coloring people's interpretation of what she said. You go to college to learn and be challenged, not to read the same books you were reading for fun in middle school. I love A Wrinkle in Time, but I'd be annoyed if I was reading that for a college class because it's not going to challenge me. I'd even be annoyed if I was asked to read something like To Kill a Mockingbird, because it's a book for younger readers and I'm just not going to get the same level of experience and analysis that I would get from, say, Song of Solomon.
As a side note, I read Just Mercy and I highly recommend it. Well written and gripping and highly informative. Though it deals with a heavy subject, it's very readable and doesn't leave you feeling hopeless.
Yes, I left my beloved YA behind when I was 16, so I would have felt insulted by its inclusion in a college level reading list.
I think it’d be fine if it was pertinent to what was being studied. For instance, one course offered in my college for Library Science students was Literature for Children and Young Adults, which was intended for those planning to work with children and/or teens. Since a major part of that is reader’s advisory, it makes sense to offer a course to get people familiar with the literature.
But for standard college courses? Probably not.
@@animeotaku307 I mean, it was also a module available to the Creative Writing, English Lit and Publishing course at both the Uni I did my undergrad and grad degrees, but it was an optional module for those that were looking to work in YA and Children's lit either as writers or in the publishing side of things
@@lexwolfhale1729 Hence why I said “pertinent.” Anyone who is working with children/teens or making material for them should be familiar with the literature aimed at them.
There are many other far better YA books out there that do touch on social issues that get a ton of praise but SD tried to act like people don't respect YA because a student didn't want her generic YA books in their curriculum?
OKAY - this university is one town over from where I grew up. It's a TINY school in the middle of nowhere. I agree it was kind of immature the girl to say she got involved in the Common Read "to stop them from ever picking Sarah Dessen", even with the added context of her other comments, but the piling from these professional authors was BONKERS.
If Dessen felt the need to respond to this situation (years later), she could have calmly explained why her book(s) would be a good choice for a Common Read program for college students - because there's definitely an argument to be made for that - and ideally she would have said something about how people are entitled to their opinion but that it was disappointing to hear. But again - she didn't need to say anything. At all.
Also, Angie Thomas calling the whole university out for comments made by one student (YEARS PRIOR) was such a weird move.
Also also, crowd-surfing at the A Day to Remember concert in college is one of my core memories. 🤘
I was there. I have a couple of screenshots that haven't got around much. One calling NK Jemisin out for using "IF I contributed to the harassment," instead of just outright apologising because she DID contribute, and another where Jodi Picoult accuses a guy of mansplaining because she didn't like his accurate assessment of what went down. Much like, as the man said, Sarah Dessen didn't like what she saw when she vanity searched her name. Twitter is the worst for this cliquey behaviour. I hate it there.
NGL I'd be pretty annoyed if a YA book was assigned reading in college. (unless It was part of a creative writing subject or about adolescent development)
It would be one thing *maybe* if this was on a book LIST that they had to read, but I agree!! A YA book about a teenage girl falling in love is not relatable to many people, and wouldn’t want to be the ONE piece of literature I would give to inspire a people starting their college career. Also, I think people often forget that not all college freshman are fresh high school graduates, some are grown adults returning to school, definitely don’t think a YA book is necessarily relatable to college freshman!!!
I mean there's a ton of YA/Middle grade and so forth that are beyond just woman falling in love. And to be fair a lot of literary fiction still has romance in it. So. I don't really get this point fully. A good story is a good story? Doesn't matter what genre or age group? Pixar technically makes kids film but they are profound enough to reach beyond children and resonate with adults because a good story is a good story.
Exactly! I LOVE young adult books still, but I enjoy them as something in my free time. If you want to have a proper, interesting and relevant discussion and curriculum, you don’t pick a Sarah Dessen novel (and yes, I ready MANY of her books as a teen and loved them). Some YA novels are up for the task when they are surrounding important social issues like racial justice, transphobia, homophobia, religious persecution, etc.
@@abookishmessI strongly disagree with this. I love love love YA books and continue to read them, but the vast majority are not appropriate for a college reading curriculum. You’re in college? Like students are paying thousands of dollars to be challenged and to learn something new, why would you be reading YA? There’s a whole horde of incredible college-age appropriate books tackling important topics that you can read. YA is age appropriate for teens, and except for certain special cases with really important messages (eg The Hate U Give), I still disagree that it’s appropriate for a college campus. If I go to a college science course and they have me watching Bill Nye the Science Guy, does that make any sense? Bill Nye is great, but not for rigorous, college level education.
Exactly my thought. I love reading YA by myself but when reading is assigned in college, I would hope they’d pick something in our age group. I say that as a big fan of YA books.
it's so funny like... do they know that friends is *also* about checking on your friend and sometimes saying "hey... i don't think you should do this" like 💀
Nah because it's their egos too
Dhonielle Clayton professionally arranges words on a page to intentionally evoke imagery, emotions, and other scenarios. She purposefully, intentionally, _specifically_ chooses these words in the ways she does. Then tried to play off what the backlash was all about with... With the implication that she doesn't understand how context works? What? WHAT? *WHAT????*
'b*tch' much like the word 'c*nt' depends largely on the context. usually people can tell when you're using it in a friendly or disparaging way, and if you call someone a 'raggedy ass fucking b*tch' I think the context rings loud and clear lol
I think the most telling thing is that Sarah decided to tweet about it at all. if she read this article and found it insulting, why not just turn to your irl friends/family for the sympathy that she clearly wanted? including a screenshot of the article and tweeting about it publicly tells me she kinda wanted the response she got.
also, shame on Angie Thomas in this situation for involving the university and turning up the heat on nelson. she's a great author but this was seriously not it.
I was so horrified seeing the aftermath of this. I actually read and liked quite a bit of Sarah Dessen as a teen/YA. But no one is obligated to like her work, and Dessen wasn't entitled to that invite. Brooke Nelson wasn't wrong; she had the right to her statements about the selection for that program, even if she strongly worded it - no different from a reader/reviewer saying they didn't like a book. I do see YA being selected for college classes but if I were there, Just Mercy would have been my pick too.
I'm glad you mentioned the time gap of the selection in the article, most people glossed over that part.
Excellent breakdown of all this.
Jennifer Weiner is a romance/women's fiction author, FYI.
@@t.a.summers She is also bad at taking criticism. Savy writes books did a video about it a while back.
Yup. I remember being on Sarah's side when she first tweet the screenshot. Like, there had been a lot of bad articles that came out about YA that year, including on that lauded John Green as the person who "made the YA genre" (he was very quickly like, um, no these female authors have doing it way longer). There was just a lot of hate towards women who wrote YA, so I knew exactly why everyone was so upset. And then we got context and I did a complete 180 on who I supported. It was one of the big lessons for me in how to responsibly use your platform.
you could tell from the mention of Northern in that little screenshot that Sarah Dessen posted that this was for something academic and not a random attack. Like I don't even find it rude to say that Sarah Dessen books aren't appropriate for a university scenario like this. They aren't. University is a specific context that calls for specific types of books
I don't really feel like the university owed anyone an apology. It's totally valid to enjoy Dessen's books but they're not quite a fit for academic discussion at a college level. The Hate U Give made sense as a pick because of it's relevance to wider social issues which would have made for richer discussions. It's not about YA vs. adult, it's just about which books offer up the widest range of discussion opportunity in a classroom. A lot of my favorite books are ones I would not recommend for required reading at a school because they're fun but I know there wouldn't be much to talk about. The uni made a sensible decision to choose Just Mercy and that student was right to fight for a book that actually made sense for the context. It's not elitist to acknowledge that books have different purposes and not all of them can interchangeably be used for the same context.
Yeah I totally agree with the student even though I haven't read the book just mercy the book totally is important
There was a lot of white feminism at play here - the idea that a white YA author was somehow a victim of a college student wanting to learn about social justice and systemic issues at her small college. I’m an adult who loves YA and it serves its purpose for anyone! But it’s also valid to say I don’t want to read YA romance at college?
"i would like to know if sarah dessen name-searches herself and how often" looking forward for her tweeting your video out of context in three years
All these authors to add to the list of people I give the side eye to. Tiffany D. Jackson, Angie Thomas, etc. unknowingly went to bat against diversifying a random college curriculum?! Not a good look.
Dhanielle knows the difference btw a reclaimed word and that same word being weaponised against someone. She tried to use her identity as a shield and I'm glad people called her on it.
This reminded me of my anger at Jodi picoult who doubled down on defending her book about autism where she included vaccines causing autism. She said it's important to her because she knows some kid who is autistic ( it like like a nephew or something ) and she got extremely butthurt by me commenting on fb how hurt I was by the narrative
I’m a mom of an autistic kid and Jodi can kick rocks
shoot, i'm a dude and i read the baby sitter's club books in high school, and at the exact same time that i got into beckett and was carrying a copy of endgame around in my literal pocket for two years till it fell apart. i don't really get the whole over-association of one's self image with the genres of entertainment you like. sometimes you feel like Dark Souls, sometimes you feel like Stardew Valley. aren't all humans like this? why would you wanna restrict yourself? it's so weird...
who was your favorite sitter? mine was claudia :)
@@Xx_Obsidian_Tears_xX almond shaped eyes yo lol
Literally played both bloodborne and stardew valley the other day. I have a pink bedroom, dress like a 70's goth-witch, hyperfem slut, raver, business casual, or as gender neutral I can. I listen to k-pop and doom metal, I love 1984 and ACOTAR. Refusing to pick is the best thing I've learned as an adult.
@@absolutelynotarobot Banishers and Harvest Moon Anthos :)
You get the octo bro fist of solidarity
🦑🤜💥🤛🦑
As an author on Twitter (for now) I DO NOT CLAIM THESE AUTHORS AS MY PEOPLE!!! I saw this mess when it was happening and I noped right on out of that bullying dogpile. All those authors really willingly asked Sarah to make them look like fools, and congrats to them, it worked.
I had to read Bryan Stevenson's "Just Mercy" for English class last year, and it was an amazing read. I typically don't like memoirs, preferring things like YA myself, but I am really glad that I was made to read it. We analyzed it, had really interesting discussions about the morality of our current systems, and I had to write multiple essays on it. While I haven't read Dessen's book, I can see why the student would prefer to put "Just Mercy" on the list instead and I think it can be a much more important and fulfilling book for students than some YA books can be.
I've hated every Sarah Dessen book I've ever tried to read not because they're YA, but because they were so boring I fell asleep multiple times. I'm kinda sick of authors who act like any person expressing that they don't like their book(s) is some kind of personal attack towards them. I read a shit ton of YA books that are better written, more interesting, have more compelling characters and don't bore me to tears. A coworker at the bookstore I work at once described Colleen Hoover books as Sarah Dessen books if the character had terrible home lives and it was perfectly spot on. When I was a freshman in college our college wide read was The Kite Runner. It was a fictionalized account about a man who grew up in Afghanistan and it was particularly important because the war in Afghanistan had started less than 2 years before. We had the author come do some guest lectures and it was an amazing experience.
Same, I saw a bunch of people reading her when i was in high school and thought to give her a try. I DNF like three of her books and just decided she was too slow in pacing for me. There were many better (and worse but more entertaining to me) books out there to read. She was also one of the first books that I STUGGELED to read. It was the first time someone told me that I could just not read it if it was not entertaining me.
Damn you met Khaled Hosseini?
@@bendover7841 Yep. It was almost 20 years ago when I was in college but he was super nice and gave a really great talk about his experiences. Stayed after to answer questions and sign copies of his book too.
Haha I just finished reading "someone like you" and I don't think I've hated a book so much since The Nightingale.
Seriously it deserves jail time
I’m happy I’m not the only person who has issues with Roxane Gay. It was the fact she was okay with a teen getting doxxed for calling out a book only for Roxane to lorded for doing the same this past year.
Hey do you have any more info about why you don’t like her outside of this incident? It sounds important but I couldn’t find what Rachel might be referring to! Thank you!
As a trans person, I'm pretty sick of hearing about JKR. It used to be somewhat fun to watch ppl ripping her bs apart, but now I feel like it's mostly contributing to her staying famous and "relevant", which she clearly cares about. And she'd have a lot less power to sway opinion if her fame faded
It was pretty funny watching all the people get triggered by her, especially when it got to the point where it was clear that she didn't care anymore.
This is my favorite series because it's a good guide for Shit Not To Do if I ever by some fluke get published. And also I love Mess. I love hearing about other people being Mess.
I recently went to the bookstore and found some of the books I loved when I was younger and couldn’t stop feeling cringe when reading them again. But then I remembered how much I loved those stories and held them close to my heart. I just think it’s important to remember that feeling regardless
The way we shit on books geared towards women is a discussion worth having. But dang I'd be so EMBARRASSED if I was fishing for validation in such an obvious and thirsty way.
oh man I was there for this, it was crazy. I used to read her books a lot when I was a teen and well into my twenties for the nostalgia, but this moment turned me off on her so bad that I threw away her books. and I PROMISE you, you aren't missing out on her books. they're all the same! they're all the SAME! girl with issue meets boy with issue, they connect, catch feelings, something ruffles feathers and makes the girl back up, resolution, they're together now, the end. repeat ad nauseam and profit.
Just when I was getting frustrated with my college work, Rachel comes through with a video. I’m so glad I found your channel.
Dhonielle Clayton was really trying to play like she didn’t understand what was going on. She insulted this woman (we all know she wasn’t trying to say it in a friendly way) and then tried to redirect this conversation to something that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. I’m definitely giving her a side eye in all this.
Yeah, honestly, I think what she did was way worse than Dessen's friend (whose name I don't remember how to spell) because she tried to make it like it was just that she wasn't "allowed" to use bitch anymore - but the way you used it was derogatory? It doesn't matter if it's been reclaimed, you were basically using it in its original context - as a way to put down another woman????
@@PinkCatsy Right and she knew that and was trying to play dumb. If anything Rachel was too easy on her in the video.
The thought of having to read Ready Player One for college makes me sad.
As a black person yeah no calling someone a raggedy ass B can be playful but it can also be incredibly harmful. I find her deflection to be a little frustrating.
I like these Authors Behaving Badly videos because as an author myself, it helps me catch possible blindspots when considering my own behaviour ^^ So thanks for this work \o/
Same here!!
As a trans woman, I’d have to skip a JK Rowling video. I just can’t give her my attention or time. Even if it’s talking about terrible she is as a person. But I do love your videos!
That’s fair! If it’ll do more harm than good, I’ll avoid doing it
@@ReadswithRachel Also trans here, and aside from the hurtful nature of what she's done, I think by now with J.K. Rowling's controversies, we've hit the point of "alright, all the people who care about trans people know she sucks, now it's just relentless rehashing of things that are hard to hear about." I'd much prefer a deep dive on a situation I've never heard about, as someone not as immersed in the book community.
That makes sense. Alright, I’ll continue to focus on other authors. Thanks for giving that feedback, both of you, I really appreciate it.
@@ReadswithRachel How can a talk about a popular author who is beloved by millions of readers do harm? Are readers so fragile?
@@kristinegallagher6437 dont play dumb, it doesnt help your arguement
My best friend was obsessed with these books in middle school and by proxy I became an avid reader of her books too. And I adored them however now that I'm older and have attempted to reread the books they all read the exact same. The characters tend to be copy and paste throughout all the books and whilst I feel as though she's good at writing characters relatable for a younger audience now that I am older I just find them boring and rather dull. I can not tell you a single thing about any of the books because they all blend together unfortunately.
the thing to me is, i definitely believe ya has value, and can be important for a lot of people. personally, as a grown adult, i still LOVE middle grade fantasy and xenofiction (i devoured the guardians of gahoole in two weeks. i still have a box set of a series of unfortunate events)
however,
1) as you stated, clearly the college hadnt discriminated against ya in the past
2) there's a reason it is age graded. the vocabulary, choice of nuance, rhetorical devices-- etc, are all aimed at a younger audience. as emotionally fulfilling and good for introduction to higher level reading as ya is, it cannot be compared academically to most college-age books. i do believe people should try a three-tiered approach to literature: read something a little below your level of comprehension, something at your level of comprehension, and above your comprehension-- be an active, participatory reader. not only will you be able to read higher level literature, but youll also be able to ENJOY ya and middle grade more because you have a fuller understanding of how literature works. if in college, i was told to read a ya book, i would be confused. it doesn't challenge me in any way; which is the point of higher education. it doesnt make ya "valueless"-- ya serves its purpose well, but this isnt that purpose (usually! as you pointed out, the college HAD accepted ya before! it's fulfilled a purpose!)
also, the argument on twitter that its "defending womens stories/women in literature" seems a little absurd to me. yes, women are a very large demographic of both authors and readers for young adult novels, but are we supposed to assume there's no women in adult fiction? no women who have written classics? dont do mary shelley like that. so many women have written striking novels and memoirs, and i think the idea that women ONLY write ya or middle grade is degrading the fullness of women in literature and their ability to write "adult" books like men do. it's an infantilization used to, as you said, dodge accountability for dogpiling some random college student who was slightly crass in her opinion of a book. god forbid, right?
(ps: also, you were so right with pointing out why she was name searching for three years ago??? ive been harassed online for extended periods, and i just refused to look at their pages because i ... didnt want to see it?????)
also, pps: any monster flavor recommendations? im hooked on the mango and punch...but im scared to try any of the ones that dont have a flavor name with food in it. what is it supposed to taste like... also sorry if this seems sporadic, im agreeing with you overall, i just think a lot of the feminism slant used in the twitter discourse was pulled in shallow ways)
I'm a huge fan of the diet Monster flavors Ultraviolet and Ultra Paradise. They taste like liquid pixie sticks or lightning.
I wasn’t even in the book community and I remember this happening! Excited to learn more
Sarah Dessen strikes me as incredibly self-absorbed, given it was always just about *her* and the fact that not everyone liked her books. I don’t agree with how some of the authors who responded went about it, but I can understand how they interpreted it without fully grasping Sarah’s intent (not to mention the magnitude of their actions), especially Roxane Gay and NK Jemisin who apologized. But I agree, Siobhan and her caping for Sarah is ridiculous! And I love the unintentional full circle moment with the mention of Elon Musk!
tweeting at the university about something one student said was… a choice.
this whole thing is a mess, & i’m just. oof. thank u for your excellent coverage, as usual!
STOP as soon as I saw the title *I knew*. Siobhan was my friend's professor at the time, and Northern is only a few hours away from my hometown--the girl in the article is basically /from/ my hometown--so she told me all about this. Pretty sure she filled me in on like Halloween or smth. Spent ages spilling the tea to my uninterested parents after lmfao
holy shit this is a blast from the past. I remember when this all went down and I was blown away by how many authors ganged up against this supposed anti-teen girl message without actually reading the article, and the amount of viciousness l being flung at this young woman who dared to demand critical thinking in her curriculum. If ANYTHING, Dessen was the one who was anti-teen girl, since she felt so insecure about her novels not being academically rigorous enough to be acceptable for college curriculum she needed to put this student on blast and get reassurance and pats on the head from her community. The power imbalance was wild! And what's so unbelievable to me was the student was RIGHT. I wouldn't want to read a YA romance fluff book in a COLLEGE curriculum unless I was studying young adult development or education. People need to recognize that there are different books for different situations, and while there absolutely there is a place for entertainment writing, the majority of popular novels are entertaining and not acceptable for school curriculums. This whole situation was a bad case of white fragility and pick me energy.
This is another I was on Twitter for. A wild ride indeed. I'm an author-drama fan from back in the day when the mockery took place on LiveJournal clones to point and laugh from a safe distance.
I write fiction that is hugely important to me and I think I have some important shit to say, but if it was between my book and one about racial inequity in the justice system, I would NOT be fussing about someone saying “I don’t think Nyanbinary’s book should get picked.” The caucacity.
Why do authors do this on Twitter? Like, can't they just make a group chat 💀
I feel like those authors who jumped on the bandwagon and then went on saying things about systemic stuff, should have actual looked up that article in the first place and then have their says. Tell Sarah how taking a short quote out of context, just to feel validated, could have far more negative effects on YA books and YA authors.
I think that you really emphasize 3 key points that make this behavior really egregious, even if it doesn't necessarily seem as bad as some stuff we see from authors behaving badly.
- The quote lacked SO much necessary context (like, what the Common Read was)
- Sarah never called off the dog-pile from her friends and their fan bases
- This wasn't front page news that had just happened! It was a small part in an article about a particular college reading program, written several years ago.
Putting it all together, I think it paints a pretty clear picture: Sarah Dessen was name-searching herself, saw a quote that was upsetting to her, and instead of just remembering that not everyone is going to like you or your writing and then moving on, or privately confiding that hurt to her friends, she behaved inappropriately and with harm and then did nothing to mitigate that harm.
Thrilled to see your channel growing! You absolutely deserve it and I’m so happy for you!! 💕
Oh yeah, I actually read Saint Anything and it's definitely better than Player One (not hard). It isn't a vapid romance read either. It deals with things like a creepy man who tries to weasel his way into a girl's life and the importance of female friendship. That's what makes me sad. Some of these teen books do have important themes, but we still disparage them all as pointless and shallow. I know. I'm preaching to the choir.
Though yeah, it didn't need to be the book that was picked for the college read program.
I remember this as I witnessed this unfold in real time. It was disgusting to see how many authors immediately jumped on this woman who simply was arguing for diversity (I think?) in the classroom- specifically in English literature. They not only dogpiled on an innocent woman but they trusted the word of a butthurt writer who tried to control the narrative by showing a screenshot that went against her.
Sarah Dessen deserved to be cancelled, in my opinion. Why is she allowed to continue being published when she caused all of this hurt just because somebody wanted diversity in a university.
I had to retract many of my ratings and reviews of support to many of the authors that went on this bullying campaign entirely blind to the real story. They didn't even look up the article. If they did, they would have seen that hurting an author was not the intent of the article at all.
I have watched so many of your videos and just realized that the books in your bookcase are color coded. It's very satisfying, and I love it. ❤️
The article was actually published days before this situation happened, though the book wasn't chosen three years before the incident.
OH shoot I misunderstood that detail
Omg I used to love Sarah Dessen's books because they got me through some hard times in high school. Thank you for bringing this to light
The irony of YA authors getting mad that people think their work is immature by deciding to act as immature as possible. As soon as the uni was told: "My books are beneath you" they should have doubled down and said yeah they kinda are.
ive never been on book twitter but i always listen to rachel discuss author drama
I remember this whole thing and it was so gross, especially the way these authors acted like Dessen was basically the greatest and most amazing author who ever put pen to paper and the idea of anyone not liking her is just unfathomable. I've read a couple of her books and they were pretty mediocre, just your basic middle of the road white-boy-white-girl bland ass teen romance. If you look at her book covers, they all look almost exactly the same, and you can tell there is very little variety to her stories. I'm not saying younger women are bad for liking them, but these other authors acting like she deserves a damn Pulitzer or something was just ludicrous.
Your hair looks amazing! It looks so neat and styled! I'm jealous.
I remember this!!!! So excited your doing a video on it!!
AHH these videos are my favourite
Liking this in the first 3 seconds because of your fabulous shirt
So glad NK Jemisin apologized because I LOVE her. Never even heard of Sarah Dessen
Reading some of the comments here made me realize something about a whole other community, and I can confidently say I feel like I know where they draw their inspiration from now - fanfiction writers.
I've been writing fic since i was twelve years old - so, for the past eight years - and I've noticed, within the past three or so, fanfic authors acting... eerily similar to this. Obviously, there are plenty of lovely ones out there. Please don't take this as me slandering my own community, because I *am* one of them and have found a lot of comfort speaking to other fanfic authors around my age. But what I've noticed is that... the popular ones, especially in certain fandoms, form cliques *exactly* like this. If someone says, "hey, maybe you shouldn't have said that to one of your readers", you're basically hounded by all of their friends. No matter how obviously horrible their behavior is - I've seen fanfic authors act ridiculously entitled over the smallest of things, and it makes me sick to my stomach - you're not allowed to critique it. You simply aren't.
And I wonder, if they're just adopting the ways of actual authors, as a means of legitimizing their work, or if this is just how creative cliques work? I think it's most likely a combination of the two, but it still icks me out so bad. I know professional authors are making money off of their work, but fanfic writers put in just as much - if not, more, sometimes - effort, and I hate seeing how disgusting the community continues to become, as time goes on. I'm an aspiring author myself and it does discourage me to see that this seems to be the prevalent theme of how all creatives are, getting into cliques like this. I don't want to have to be a part of that culture, I don't, but in a weird way... it almost seems like that's how you get ahead, weirdly.
Anyways, this was a lovely video. Sorry to drop a random comment about this, but I couldn't deny the parallels and had to get my thoughts out somewhere.
I can say, as someone who was in the fanfic communities of the 2000s, pre-Twitter etc... yeah, the BNF cliques were pretty much the same then, perhaps just on a smaller scale than we have nowadays.
Fantastic video. Some of my Facebook "friends" appeared in your video and have since been unfriended. Thanks for putting all the time and effort you put into this video. As a horror writer and Father of two girls and brother of two others, thank you. Keep on laying the smack down upon those who are pretty much begging for it. ❤
Oh dear god! I have a whole shelf of Sarah Dessen that I haven’t been able to part with and so many of my favorite authors were involved in this🤦♀️ this is extremely disappointing and I’ll be reconsidering my stances on them
As a fellow Floridian, your quips on the sunshine state are my fav.
The thing about YA Romance that concerns me and is a trope I don't like is it gives impressionable people bad ideas about what "Love" is more often than not, the relationship is toxic, abusive and co-dependent and the Girl (the protag very commonly) gets forced into a "Love Corner" as opposed to a triangle. If it was a triangle there would be feelings all around but YA makes the protage the object of two boys' affections metaphorically backing her into a corner.
Same, and the most popular ones feature that trope and a lot of other stuff that teaches toxic lessons
Wow, somehow I missed this one! I don't think I had really gotten into Book Twitter in 2019 though, so perhaps that is why.
It's so weird to me how people willfully misconstrue tweets, taking the words and mentally twisting them into some whole new message. And this is done both ways; these authors turning Dessen's personal whining into a message about YA books being unfairly denigrated, or Dhonielle just,,,, deciding people were mad at her because she used b**** and not because of the CONTEXT she used it in.
A lot of authors griping about being authors really boils down to them hating how capitalism stifles creatives. Which is fine, the system sucks for people without lucrative skills and that's not most authors. But maybe they should figure out what they're really mad at instead of taking it out on readers. Unionize or something. This is entirely beside the point of your video, I just happened to have a thought. Your makeup looks really nice today, as always. I really like your look ❤️
YA authors are so cliquish and catty its genuinely stressful. I used to follow lots of YA authors I looked up to and wound up disillusioned due to their high school level antics, and it actually wound up ruining the entire genre for me. It's truly unfortunate. I used to love YA right up until around this period and I started using twitter more regularly. Tragic.
This feels to me like authors who read their own Goodreads reviews.
Twitter inspires so much drama. I’ve avoided it for years 😢
not me having a crisis in the beginning because i’m wearing my a day to remember shirt too 😅
Omg. You unlocked a memory and damn, completely forgot about this. I dipped out of the drama before all of the apologies, now i remember why i didn’t pick up Sarah dessen even tho I’ve heard so many people mention her in wrap ups 😭😂
Her book Just Listen was the best thing 12 year old me ever read. I reread it at 18. I couldn't even finish it. I still hold onto its memory fondly though, like a first love almost.
Sarah Dessen's books always gave me the ick when I was in high school. I read one and couldn't stomach anymore. I will read YA as an adult, but wouldn't pick up one of hers, even before watching this. Great video.
That whole thing about using the word "bitch" was so stupid. Kinda gross to deflect like that to make herself the victim and make race a part of it when it never was. How massively immature
Me watching this with my recently bought "The Hate U Give" on my shelves 😶 Glad that at least none of the authors that didn't apologize are on my shelves.
OHHHH MY GOD. this unlocked a memory
This is such a prime example of chronically online authors. Twitter is the WORST for this kind of stuff, it's honesty so fucking embarrassing 💀
I missed this too. Would love to hear about cassandra clare :) New follower
Sarah Dessen was an auto-buy author for me from 2008-2019 and then this mess happened and I donated every book I owned, even the signed ones
I have read a few of her books in the past. Was surprised by this news--but even more surprised of how many other authors joined in her defense when no one read the actual article
I just found your channel on fourth wing and I never realized authors, had so much drama😅
as someone who read A LOT of sarah dessen books in high school and enjoyed them, all of her books are 10000% catered toward the YA/teen category. all her MC are in high school or coming of age teenagers around 16 or 17. they all have plots centered around someone at THAT age in their life would experience. once i hit college, i never picked up another dessen book because the plots felt too high school and they no longer interested me at all. why, as a college student looking to start my new life, would i want to read book after book of bratty teenagers having issues?
i would be so annoyed if a sarah dessen book was picked as a requirement for a college class curriculum
Honestly we need more YA books featuring college age MC's
So all these authors had a tantrum because someone didn’t like a book? That’s so pathetic omg
I disagree w you on a few parts but mainly the "not caring until a lot of people care proves you dont care". While that may be the case for some, my autism DOES make it hard to grasp things and situations right away and sometimes it takes multiple explanations framed differently to understand the nuance in something. This situation it seems unlikely to be the case bbut just keep that in mind in general please! Great video, I havent seen any of your other authors behaving badly yet but i think i have to now!
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I hadn’t thought of it that way
My phd research is on girl literature (and I teach it occasionally)… but Dessen would not be the author I pick to have everyone read at the university level. I might include her in a course, but not be the sole text.
As an aspiring author these are great to.learn from how to not be shitty and as a reader it helps me keep an eye out for badly behaving authors that I want to.steer clear of
❤❤ man what a time 😂😂😂
Also funny 5osee videos from the past and knowing how future/present you made a 3part sjm video 😂
You should do a look into Tomi Adeyemi vs Nora Roberts over the titles of their books. That was a strange, strange fight...
Wait what I never heard about this
Tomi Adeyemi was completely in the wrong and behaved terribly...
What I don’t understand about all of this: If the article was so easy to identify that a lot of people could bully that poor girl, how come no one could look it up online before saying something about it? Before I say something about a certain context, I check the sources to see if it is actually true. Seems like no did that and these are people with a huge following. As Neil Gaiman said, that is a responsibility too. 😅🤔