Am guessing you guys are on ng. For those of us on lp, it would be helpful to know the max gas setting for that roaster so we could calculate a percentage conversion (sorta) for lp. And how would you figure max gas for a given roaster? My lp gauge goes up to 5kpa. My little roaster (bc-1) is screaming at 4kpa. Don't think I want to go past that. Thanks for all the great videos you guys put out! Really helpful! And Derek, you are a phenom! No one expresses their master roaster expertise like you do. You are truly a treasure!!
Thank you Derek and team at Millcity ,another brilliant video and data logging profiles to analyse. I have been roasting on a 5kg after watching alot of your videos ,some decent roasts and some bad ones as well ,but your generous sharing of knowledge is so much appreciated .Its hard to get that here in South Africa .I dont have any data logging software as yet .I am tracking time versus temp every 30 seconds and have done not too bad for the past year or so
We all started out manual logging. Derek still does. The computer makes it easier, but operators pay too much attention to the computer anyway. Keep up the good work!
Another great video! This is especially helpful now since were all quarantined. It’s endearing to see that you’ve included your “mistakes“ in the video. That makes us home roasters feel a whole lot better!. Some of my mistakes have included:forgetting to close the hopper gate, not realizing I am soaking until several minutes into the roast, accidentally leaving the exhaust fan off after dropping the roast and worst of all leaving the cooling tray chute door open. Lots of precious beans on the garage floor. Thanks again. Stay healthy. Pete
Thanks for this! Always learn something new. Looking at the curves of all of these, they all seem to be pretty severely baked, with big ROR crashes and flicks in the development phase. Is this something you guys have more insight on? When I roast I follow the suggestion of Rao and others, and always try to keep my ROR descending linearly throughout the roast, especially through development.
I'm very glad you asked. Coffee can be "baked", but it's usually much more of a roast flavor profiling problem than small variations in BT ROR. We understand your confusion and have the same coffee, green and roasted, available for comparison and exploration on the website. The bigger problem is that professional coffee roasters cup blind to avoid bias at the cupping table. We don't eye cup coffee. We taste it. We've read the same books and perhaps even attended some of the same classes. The difference is we've spilled more coffee this month than you've roasted in your entire career. We know what is real and valuable in those books and classes and we know the self fulfilling prophecy that is their de facto sales and marketing strategy. We're only about the coffee. We're interested and willing to keep an open mind about just about everything, but if it's not real in the cup blind, it's not real. Beyond all of that, these videos are not about "perfection" because perfection in coffee is largely illusory and entirely in the eye of the beholder. Craft is about striving for the best version of your talent over a series of iterations. We're simply doing the best we can to show a few of the iterations. While on camera and miked up. Find someone with big enough balls to do the same with the same coffee and then blind cup their coffee against Derek's. You'll find the smart money on Derek every time. Thanks for the question. Please understand my tone as more stern than harsh. At the end of the day, we're only trying to help you roast better and sell more coffee in a way that doesn't create soul sucking anxiety and the need for a lifetime supply of prescription anti-depressants. Steve G.
@@MillCityRoastersMN Thanks for the reply. I meant no disrespect, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what contributes most to "baking" a batch of coffee. I have definitely found some correlation with baked roasts and ROR crashes and flicks, but not claiming to be an expert on the matter at all. I would love if you all could do an episode on baked coffee, how it happens, what to avoid, myths, maybe even including a blind cupping.
These videos a great! So insightful and helpful to my own roasting journey. What’s the possibility of doing some videos on the ins and outs of artisan?
can you put in the bottom corner of the screen a live feed of the computer screen so we can follow the data logging? that would make these videos next level. (they're already next level..)Cheers, Paul
Me also. Assuming you guys are on ng. For those of us on lp this info would be very useful. And Derek, you are a freaking treasure!! The is no one that shares the expertise of a master roaster like you do. Many, many thanks (from a home roaster (on a bc-1)
I’d be interested in your taste evaluation of these roasts in the next few days. Your descriptions of the roasts were excellent. Done in a manner that translates directly to another roaster where temp really does not translate well.
Do the fuel settings from the 1kg roaster transfer 1:1 to the 500g? I'm learning on the 500g Mill City and hope to replicate these profiles. Thanks for the videos. Very helpful and inspiring!
You transfer your understanding of the finish temp and your roast profile plan as it relates to the flavor profile of any given coffee. No matter what the sales guys claim, there is no such thing as a 1:1 transfer on any roasters but you can usually get about 90% of the way and adjust from there.
Really enjoy these videos and learned a lot from them. Derek is awesome! Do you guys sell roasted beans? I would love to taste Derek's roasts if possible!
We pair roasted coffees as a flavor target for a couple of the greens on our website. We'll be doing a nice Geisha with a roasted sample maybe as soon as next week too.
I forgot my question! What general roast plan would you recommend for low density natural or honey processed coffees. I have a Costa Rica honey and a Colombian natural that both are finicky. Even with lots of air flow at the end of the roast they end up being slightly scorched with a faint “roasty” flavor. I charge 1 kg on a 1 kg machine at 385 degrees and follow a pretty standard plan decreasing fuel input and increasing air right before dry end and before FC. I clean the ducts regularly and have minimal duct length. Would you recommend low and slow for these coffees? 3/4 charge?
Natural processed coffees have dried seed pulp and naturally occurring sugar on the surface of the seed. This sugar caramelizes quicker and chars sooner than the cellulose of the seed. These coffees will show a step or two darker development than washed coffees at the same finish temp. If you want to avoid that roast flavor, you'll need to slow the mid phase to get enough heat worked into the seed so as to promote fuller development at shorter post first crack development periods and lower temperature finish temps.
Mill City Roasters Thanks for the quick reply. Would you still go with a charge temp in the 385-400 range? I assume you still want to get plenty of energy transfer initially and then dial back fuel in the mid phase to lengthen.
We can give you a fish or teach you how to fish. We'd rather that you watch the video: Flavor Profiling for Purpose, Part II: Roast Flavor Profiling and Machine Control at: th-cam.com/video/vpLM_UjqTEM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Derek. You guys are sharing love no one else dared to share. Most roasters I met start acting weird whenever I interrogate them on how they roast. Just one question please. On the first roast, you indicated a charge temp of 385 whereas on roastpath shows a charge temp of 412.85 for the same batch. It also is much higher for the other two roasts. Can you please confirm which is it?
We typically preheat to an empty drum temperature reading based on the temperature controller on the machine. That thermocouple is not recorded in the logging on this machine and usually turned off as extraneous clutter on the screen on the larger roasters, but always recorded in our notes section of a master profile as a target preheat. The controller thermocouple is closer to the the center-line of the machine and we think it provides a marginally more reliable indicator of energy stored in the system. YMMV
Thank-you so much for posting these. I'm a hobbyist roaster, and the impact of what I have learned from you is really showing up in the cup. If you happen to read this, I do have a question. I noticed in both roast 1 and 2, although you did mention BT at the end of the roast, it was not part of your plan. Do you typically plan your drops more from time after FC start and end and visual than BT? Or does BT play a bigger role in your drop plans? Thanks again, and keep up the great work!
Congratulations, Frank, Keep swinging the bat. BT is an important indicator of roast development. Roast color (lighter or darker), swelling and smoothing, and the scent of the coffee are all equally important indicators of post first crack development. We typically target a finish temperature, but variations in the roast may require an operator to make a judgement call based on other factors to decide when exactly and at what temperature to discharge the drum. I can't speak for Derek, but I'm 99% sure he had a number in mind for each roast. He may have simply forgot to mention that number in the hubbub of roasting on camera.
I meant to add: what would you anticipate the flavor difference to be between your long dark roast here, and a roast ~8:00 min first crack and then a quicker transition (~2:00-2:30) to the start of second and dropped at the same start to second. Thanks!
Love these. Good to know my roasts of a similar bean on this same machine are looking quire similar in the data. Thanks Derek.
Thank you very much for your sharing your knowledge it's wonderful time to watch you in this time, Thanks again
Great video with an amazing roaster / instructor.
Am guessing you guys are on ng. For those of us on lp, it would be helpful to know the max gas setting for that roaster so we could calculate a percentage conversion (sorta) for lp. And how would you figure max gas for a given roaster? My lp gauge goes up to 5kpa. My little roaster (bc-1) is screaming at 4kpa. Don't think I want to go past that. Thanks for all the great videos you guys put out! Really helpful!
And Derek, you are a phenom! No one expresses their master roaster expertise like you do. You are truly a treasure!!
Thank you Derek and team at Millcity ,another brilliant video and data logging profiles to analyse. I have been roasting on a 5kg after watching alot of your videos ,some decent roasts and some bad ones as well ,but your generous sharing of knowledge is so much appreciated .Its hard to get that here in South Africa .I dont have any data logging software as yet .I am tracking time versus temp every 30 seconds and have done not too bad for the past year or so
We all started out manual logging. Derek still does. The computer makes it easier, but operators pay too much attention to the computer anyway. Keep up the good work!
Another great video! This is especially helpful now since were all quarantined. It’s endearing to see that you’ve included your “mistakes“ in the video. That makes us home roasters feel a whole lot better!. Some of my mistakes have included:forgetting to close the hopper gate, not realizing I am soaking until several minutes into the roast, accidentally leaving the exhaust fan off after dropping the roast and worst of all leaving the cooling tray chute door open. Lots of precious beans on the garage floor. Thanks again. Stay healthy. Pete
Thanks for this! Always learn something new. Looking at the curves of all of these, they all seem to be pretty severely baked, with big ROR crashes and flicks in the development phase. Is this something you guys have more insight on? When I roast I follow the suggestion of Rao and others, and always try to keep my ROR descending linearly throughout the roast, especially through development.
I'm very glad you asked.
Coffee can be "baked", but it's usually much more of a roast flavor profiling problem than small variations in BT ROR.
We understand your confusion and have the same coffee, green and roasted, available for comparison and exploration on the website.
The bigger problem is that professional coffee roasters cup blind to avoid bias at the cupping table. We don't eye cup coffee. We taste it.
We've read the same books and perhaps even attended some of the same classes. The difference is we've spilled more coffee this month than you've roasted in your entire career. We know what is real and valuable in those books and classes and we know the self fulfilling prophecy that is their de facto sales and marketing strategy.
We're only about the coffee. We're interested and willing to keep an open mind about just about everything, but if it's not real in the cup blind, it's not real.
Beyond all of that, these videos are not about "perfection" because perfection in coffee is largely illusory and entirely in the eye of the beholder.
Craft is about striving for the best version of your talent over a series of iterations. We're simply doing the best we can to show a few of the iterations. While on camera and miked up. Find someone with big enough balls to do the same with the same coffee and then blind cup their coffee against Derek's. You'll find the smart money on Derek every time.
Thanks for the question. Please understand my tone as more stern than harsh. At the end of the day, we're only trying to help you roast better and sell more coffee in a way that doesn't create soul sucking anxiety and the need for a lifetime supply of prescription anti-depressants.
Steve G.
@@MillCityRoastersMN Thanks for the reply. I meant no disrespect, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what contributes most to "baking" a batch of coffee. I have definitely found some correlation with baked roasts and ROR crashes and flicks, but not claiming to be an expert on the matter at all. I would love if you all could do an episode on baked coffee, how it happens, what to avoid, myths, maybe even including a blind cupping.
These videos a great! So insightful and helpful to my own roasting journey. What’s the possibility of doing some videos on the ins and outs of artisan?
Since we neither use nor suggest the use of Artisan, I'd say the chance of that happening is zero.
Oh shit new roasting videos! Thanks guys!!
can you put in the bottom corner of the screen a live feed of the computer screen so we can follow the data logging? that would make these videos next level. (they're already next level..)Cheers, Paul
Take another look at the linked RoastPATH profiles. There's a lot more there than you are accustomed to seeing.
@@MillCityRoastersMN ok, firstly thanks for the quick reply, secondly, d'oh! now i know!
What's the max kPa this roaster is set to? Curious about overall gas percentages since you start at 2kPa then drop to .75kPa, etc.
Me also. Assuming you guys are on ng. For those of us on lp this info would be very useful.
And Derek, you are a freaking treasure!! The is no one that shares the expertise of a master roaster like you do. Many, many thanks (from a home roaster (on a bc-1)
Nice Videos, but it would be interesting if you show the seeds when they are roasted, just to have an idea how they look on the different profiles.
We've got a few things cooking that you are going to LOVE. Stay tuned.
I’d be interested in your taste evaluation of these roasts in the next few days. Your descriptions of the roasts were excellent. Done in a manner that translates directly to another roaster where temp really does not translate well.
Do the fuel settings from the 1kg roaster transfer 1:1 to the 500g? I'm learning on the 500g Mill City and hope to replicate these profiles. Thanks for the videos. Very helpful and inspiring!
You transfer your understanding of the finish temp and your roast profile plan as it relates to the flavor profile of any given coffee. No matter what the sales guys claim, there is no such thing as a 1:1 transfer on any roasters but you can usually get about 90% of the way and adjust from there.
Really enjoy these videos and learned a lot from them. Derek is awesome!
Do you guys sell roasted beans? I would love to taste Derek's roasts if possible!
We pair roasted coffees as a flavor target for a couple of the greens on our website. We'll be doing a nice Geisha with a roasted sample maybe as soon as next week too.
I forgot my question! What general roast plan would you recommend for low density natural or honey processed coffees. I have a Costa Rica honey and a Colombian natural that both are finicky. Even with lots of air flow at the end of the roast they end up being slightly scorched with a faint “roasty” flavor. I charge 1 kg on a 1 kg machine at 385 degrees and follow a pretty standard plan decreasing fuel input and increasing air right before dry end and before FC. I clean the ducts regularly and have minimal duct length. Would you recommend low and slow for these coffees? 3/4 charge?
Natural processed coffees have dried seed pulp and naturally occurring sugar on the surface of the seed. This sugar caramelizes quicker and chars sooner than the cellulose of the seed. These coffees will show a step or two darker development than washed coffees at the same finish temp. If you want to avoid that roast flavor, you'll need to slow the mid phase to get enough heat worked into the seed so as to promote fuller development at shorter post first crack development periods and lower temperature finish temps.
Mill City Roasters
Thanks for the quick reply. Would you still go with a charge temp in the 385-400 range? I assume you still want to get plenty of energy transfer initially and then dial back fuel in the mid phase to lengthen.
We can give you a fish or teach you how to fish. We'd rather that you watch the video: Flavor Profiling for Purpose, Part II: Roast Flavor Profiling and Machine Control at: th-cam.com/video/vpLM_UjqTEM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Derek. You guys are sharing love no one else dared to share. Most roasters I met start acting weird whenever I interrogate them on how they roast.
Just one question please. On the first roast, you indicated a charge temp of 385 whereas on roastpath shows a charge temp of 412.85 for the same batch. It also is much higher for the other two roasts. Can you please confirm which is it?
We typically preheat to an empty drum temperature reading based on the temperature controller on the machine. That thermocouple is not recorded in the logging on this machine and usually turned off as extraneous clutter on the screen on the larger roasters, but always recorded in our notes section of a master profile as a target preheat. The controller thermocouple is closer to the the center-line of the machine and we think it provides a marginally more reliable indicator of energy stored in the system. YMMV
Thank-you so much for posting these. I'm a hobbyist roaster, and the impact of what I have learned from you is really showing up in the cup.
If you happen to read this, I do have a question.
I noticed in both roast 1 and 2, although you did mention BT at the end of the roast, it was not part of your plan. Do you typically plan your drops more from time after FC start and end and visual than BT? Or does BT play a bigger role in your drop plans?
Thanks again, and keep up the great work!
Congratulations, Frank, Keep swinging the bat. BT is an important indicator of roast development. Roast color (lighter or darker), swelling and smoothing, and the scent of the coffee are all equally important indicators of post first crack development. We typically target a finish temperature, but variations in the roast may require an operator to make a judgement call based on other factors to decide when exactly and at what temperature to discharge the drum. I can't speak for Derek, but I'm 99% sure he had a number in mind for each roast. He may have simply forgot to mention that number in the hubbub of roasting on camera.
I meant to add: what would you anticipate the flavor difference to be between your long dark roast here, and a roast ~8:00 min first crack and then a quicker transition (~2:00-2:30) to the start of second and dropped at the same start to second. Thanks!
☕❤️👍