I'm sorry you happened to pick the worst league for group juicing. Glad you guys gave it a good try I'm sure you learned a bunch of new things about this way-too-complex game. From a content creator perspective, it's a giant hit or miss, some people love the constant "podcast" some people are just looking for the chill "one-on-one" time with their favorite streamer. Hopefully we get some ground loot changes in the future. Enjoy the rest of your league man
I don't see why group play SHOULD be profitable compared to solo. Why do groups need to get rich and dominate the economy? Let the (expierience times play time) be the decisive factor. Play together because its fun, not because it makes you rich and you leeway into some strategy.
Because thats how online games work, the power of friends and groups are more powerful than that of a solo player. Other mmos require the game to be played in a group, be blessed that you dont need 5 people to clear maps and bosses
@@LuckyArtist21 you are right and I Don't understand how people can't grasp the concept. People get so fucking hung up on WOW THOSE GUYS GET SO MUCH LOOT! like yeah but its because of an extreme effort and efficiency. I personally think its cool when the unique prices are low as fuck because i can play more builds then.
Same here! If all they do is to improve the group experience, I don't care about having more loot. Just approximately the same as playing alone, but more fun to play together.
@@aniapersa3454 Good for you I guess. I played with a friend, we do unique maps together or we help if someone does encounter something they can't kill, that's it. Mapping in duo is a waste of time and currency, plus it's not fun either.
Well it's bad content because nobody wants to watch something they can't replicate and it's also terrible for the economy when 5-10 players can tilt the market for literally everyone else, which seems to be the explicit goal of groups like this. I'm glad it's dead.
I enjoy watching the crazy loot empy gets with his team, also group play in the past tends not to be better than the top end juicer solo strategies. Its sad to see this content gone as its the only real multiplier thing to do in POE, but i am glad that solo MF is gone, just sad that groups were lost in the process.
you relaise that it hasnt actually been that bad for most leagues, the last 2 leagues were outliers because of the card strats and just the league prior being nuts, empy clearly explains it in his videos and breakdowns of it all, aswell as in his solo currency making advventures where he removes big rng drops if you are a normal player who doesnt sit on tiktok 50 percent of the time, and actually plays the game you can grind a similar amount to the groups, it only looks like a lot because these are people who are speedrunning campaign in like 3 hrs leaguestart, there then also using anywhere from 6 to 9 people total running the whole operation and it gets split if you were to put in 14 hour days of pure non stop grind day in day out with a solid strat making as much as empy does in most leagues group play sessions is not hard
@@portport9139 With MF dead, solo is going to take a massive hit too. Good. People farming mirrors every day is ridiculous. Empys group is like the bottom rung of what was possible and the Korean and south asian groups put them to shame and really dictated the market and were massive fuelers of RMT.
@@totallynottrademarked5279 uhh all I know is I never liked mf and never went it and fell bad I wasn't mf before sometimes, now I don't have that feeling and that's good, people can still make plenty of mirrors solo
For good reason. Group play like this destroys the unique market. It's the reason that the league market only lasted for 5-7 days in the past - all of these groups were able to come online several days earlier than solo players, even solo no-lifers, because they're using 10c builds to prop up one build, and then farming at 80% of the efficiency of having 8 builds worth 200div. You will never have a healthy market if these support builds exist in the way they used to.
Did you miss the part where this was over 6 people playing 14 hours per day, all extremely experienced with & skilled at the game, coordinating & cooperating?
6 people 14 hrs a day, if you have never seen a mirror in your entire time playing either your someone who cant play a lot which then you shouldnt be complaining or your just bad simply put there are tonnes of currency making strats that can pump out a mirror a week for normal players but you have to be putting in the time to get that much, im not talking about having the game open for 14 hrs im talking like 13hrs of being in maps clearing mobs most people say "oh i do 15 hr days of poe" oh really? how much of that is on your hideout browsing the market looking at youtube or tiktok, most people do that and just expect currency to fall into your lap
Yeah, with that much effort and time put in it is so sad honestly, but dumbos like this guys have no idea, he wants to have a mirror as a login reward. Oh bless you
@@snozzmcberry2366 Wtf are you on about, all they did was click the screen for loot for 14 hours a day lmfao. You're next level clueless if you think that group play with a billion aura's and curses takes any amount of skill.
This game is not made for fun group play, it's made to be more profitable. You think it's fun to play with a friend and just run around one shotting screens of mobs with flashbang skills? Have you tried it? It's not fun, this game is not made for that. Diablo 4 is fun to play in group, poe2 is gonna be fun too I think, but not poe 1 and it will never be.
@@gantzplayer.n.m4410 I don't see any reason to play this game with friend if not to make some good stats to earn currency. So you're quite wrong, I play a lot of games that are fun with friends and this game is not one of them, so stop putting this dumb idea and converting a good game in to some pathetic "everyone is in equal grounds" pile of crap, no one is stopping you to play and have fun and never did. But people who invest time and effort should be rewarded and whiny girls like you who want login rewards as mirrors should go play something else. How dumb you guys are, trying to make this game an adventure time with friend :D get the hell outta here. I play this game and talk to my friend on discord sharing experience and what loot we get, no person who plays this game seriously is gonna play duo mapping stats to lose currency and time. For ppl like you it doesnt even matter if others get more loot, you just whine about it when you see it even though it doesn't affect your gameplay at all. Just dumb
Do remember they have to split it with around 10 people. Also, that's the result of farming for 16+ hours a day. If you guys are playing at the top of the game for 16+ hours a day, you wouldn't be far from half a mirror.
said no one ever. I don't care if uniques are 50% expensive if many valuable currencies are 100% cheaper because of the groups printing them. I drop Patient and it's 25c instead of being hidden from loot filter like in Necropolis
@@troll371 a single league where headhunter isnt expensive and u act like its every time, SOLO PLAYERS (FUBGUN) Caused the rogue exile unique dropping strats to make t0 uniques to be worthless, clueless yellow map blaster reddit andy has no idea on what hes speaking about.
@@kasz306 first, HH is farmed through cards also, and because of Curation its price began tanking even before rogue exile strats second, not everyone who disagrees with you is a noob. Got 120+ divines this league solo without any abuses, not even using top strats like early sanctum. And if you didn't see how multiboxers in 3.24 actually streamed how they farm insane amounts of t0 div cards on a 6-party twink setup, even selling info how to multibox for 300$, don't call anyone clueless. PoE doesn't need parties for uniques generation, it's an old bullshit tale propagated since PathofMatth
@@troll371 congrats im glad u enjoy guaranteed drop mechanics, guaranteed you didnt farm your currency in juice mechanics, couldnt imagine spending more than 5mins in a blight/sanctum prison.
Im a lil peeved at the mindset of those that wna defend how awful group play is based on "why should you get that when i don't". I do agree to an extent with the extremes of this argument. But the reality for the majority of the playerbase is that you are punished for playing with your friends. Im also aware that my side of the argument is also playing on the same "why you not me?" But its really "not us". I feel that at the low levels of group play it is still incredibly unrewarding. At best you are getting slightly more as a group but after the split each person is getting much less than they would have solo. Not to mention that solo many builds can cruise through maps and progression while if they played in a group the additional scalings would murder their builds and they would fail their voidstone attempts and fail their maps. Im just saying i think group play is awful at both ends of the spectrum but people wna ignore that for casuals and friends it is a frustrating experience too, just bc some other dudes abused it like a sweatshop. I hope they figure it out. Getting 50% increased modifiers... split between two people with the content beinf significantly more difficult during progression feels bad and literally makes the casual group meta into solo play while chatting in disc. There has to be a way to reach a happy medium but im not that guy that can figure that out.
@grimdeathkid for more than 90% of the playerbase the maps being easier literally translates to getting more rewards. And again... im really confused how people think a multiplier of 1.5x split between 2 people is MORE than 2 people getting 100% Yalls strawman is using the upper echelon of full juiced maps with full investments modifying those scaling to absurd levels (in previous leagues) to make this argument that 2 friends progressing and playing casually can't think the experience is worse than solo. Let's do some basic math for the majority of casual group/friends playing: 2 people doing 2 maps solo 2x2=4 for reward potential 2 people doing content together 2x1.5= 3 for the reward potential. 25% less reward for 50% increase in difficulty scaling But stick to the "all you people with friends get more" trope just bc 0.1% of the elites with hyper efficiency and time to grind could take advantage of crazy scalings that have no relevance to the rest of us. Which btw... the last part isn't even true this league. We can enjoy the high prices due to lack if supply now.
@grimdeathkid the game has been balanced like that for the longest time. There were a few mechanics thats scaled with multiple players but almost all of them have been removed. Group play should be similar to solo play not significantly worse. Thats how it was for most leagues, group play being competitive altough solo being better
@@grimdeathkid the hard part about group play is getting together enough people and coordinating them together. Group play is probably 1/3 of the currency per hour compared to solo player.
@grimdeathkid i would like to be able to make competitive money while playing yes that is important to me. And playing as a group is significantly harder than playing solo. Whats easier is gearing.
@subtractem, I hate to see this didn't work out for you. I have to admit I found the stream less engaging to watch, but I thought it would be cool to see the recaps and strats. I hope you enjoy flying solo this league, it has been a great league so far imo.
As a mostly solo player, with atlas map completions with friends, I can understand the jealousy of watching group players PRINT money... However, I also think that the intensity and coordination that is required for groups to hit those marks should be rewarded. Since new league starts are actually clean economies, I think that's fair. Sorry it didn't work out for you, but I appreciate the time, energy, and effort you put forth and am glad you shared what you have with us :)
@skylar4300 no. I've watched sub for like 3 years, he wasn't always this giga money insane build creator. He's been on the "more more more!" Train for a while, and I've stopped watching for that reason. I'm sure some people love the gambles and general insanity.
@@matthewcarrick2722 dude, he's just playing the game. why does it upset you that people make more currency? Also he's not a "giga money insane build creator". quite the opposite compared to some other content creators. you just don't play the game as much and thats okay dude.
@@matthewcarrick2722 In your comment you mentioned a mirror or more per person. Obviously you were referring to empys group because subtractem made like 18 div for 5 days of work.
hope i dont see you complaining when you cant get your endgame uniques later, as a casual, this kinda sucks because it was these people that i was able to actually get the gear i needed to actually play the game and have fun, with them now not getting anything, the market will be worse and everything will be expensive, including scarabs, which means endgame juicing with little start up will become even more worse due to the demand of scarabs, i had hard time even trying to get into a endgame juice that my build could handle because of how expensive everything was. (although i may be wrong on that as its only been a few days and low teir juicing strats haven't been found yet at the time of writing this comment.)
@@datonedumbasian4919 HMMM... let me think. with old mf I,playing harvest,farmed for a week to buy mb,which mfers can farm multiple in a day. and i will be angry now?) no,cuz other economy will be better. btw scarabs won't cost more now,try to think why. a little tip: why in affliction there was sextants that cost 100c+? cuz somebody has too much money) and who is was? and btw, if you really need a mageblood to just play red maps(even juiced),it is something wrong with your character
@@datonedumbasian4919 Nope, that's not the problem with these ppl, this is just one group and it's the "Only one" that we've seen for the moment. Losing this one group doesn't mean the Market will die or whatever. The real problem is PoE Gear progression is somewhat focusing on trading alittle too much. It's like you only play the game for the currency but not for the actual upgrade of your Character. If the crafting is not so convoluted, you might not need trading that much even for Casual player. Good thing tho, this league made trading for currency way more easier but still, you have to go on a trade site to DM for Unique you want. I hope PoE steer out of "Chaos Per Minute" gaming mindset in the future.
I had a really tough league start too! I’m sure your recovery will be faster than mine. I’m sorry it’s been such a painful week for you. I hope it’s turns around quick.
Lol he got as much as a solo would get in two hours doing a good atlas strat. Thats crazy that they continued after this first day. Bash your face in wall and do it again for 14 straight hours 5 days in a row lol
Ok let me just start by saying that I agree with the decision GGG made in removing Quantity from the game. That being said..... JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE GROW THE FUCK UP. It genuinely pisses me off when people say stuff like "haha group players got what they deserved". Are we just that jealous of other players loot that we want their experience in the game to be ruined to make our experience better? If you want more loot GO FARM MORE LOOT (A.K.A invest more and pick a good strategy). Its been proven by many people and there is much data to suggest that the way group play was before this patch, was very close to what a solo player could pull off given enough investment and the right build. If you don't believe me just go look at SnooBae85's videos the last couple leagues. The guy juices like a body builder and gets crazy loot.... and guess what.... HES A SOLO PLAYER GUYS. The exception is of course necropolis league with the Meatsack shenanigans. GGG stated themselves the facts on that particular matter.
I made 28 divines playing solo in the last 12 hours. dropped a doctor card(12d) dropped a max roll dying sun ruby flask(8d) and bought a gem for 2d but then sold it 2hours later for 10d(8d profit). I also took a 6hour nap during the last 12hours.
The problem is people compare fun with profit. Group play is about fun or overpass hard content. You cant perfectly replicate what you did with the group but by yourself. And you had fun doing it. Who cares how much you make. And even then.. not too bad anyway, that shard is probably whole new build
coming from outside the group play fence historically looked at gf strats as ... a tad lopsided .. even if it looked impressive in aggregate, and not as outlandish once split compared to solo - ggg overcompensated and sure kneecapped it (lets be honest, taken out back and bludgeoned) more than i think they could/should have , and unexpected IRL and technical issues didn't help any , but it's been an honor and a privilege and enjoyed the (bumpy) journey and working with everyone
I'm confused. Why are we sad that a strategy that exponentially catapults people who already have a crazy advantage even further is gone? Good riddance.
@@danielwood3486 IF the reasoning behind you playing in a group, is better loot than you are not playing in group for ANYTHING else, than personal gain, it's fun to play with the rich, now come and play and be like the average player, to feel what it's like :)
@@danielwood3486 Oh and by the way, GGG didn't forbid you to play with your buddies and on the average you are not shooting yourself in the foot for playing group, you are just not getting BETTER rewards but you are not getting WORSE either. And that's good!
every time i see someone being mad at Empy and his group i lose brain cells its crazy that people have no concept for how important time , effort , knowledge and skill are for the outcome of anything the whole equality of outcome mindvirus has taken over the west thats for sure
tbh this is how group play should be / feel. i play with a friend to have a friend not because its the best thing i can do. in fact id say most people want to play with 1 other person at max. if group play was more rewarding the 2 persons should be the sweet spot with more than 2 having diminishing returns.
Solo play was more profitable then group. These guys put in a lot of time, effort and planing to reach these results. This game is not made for a fun group play experience, have you tried it? It sucks. So if it's not even giving you any more reward it's useless and just makes your game laggy and you lose currency. Why do people complain when they have no idea what they are complaining about. If you play 4 hours a day why do you want other you be as poor as you?
I mean the big tryhard groups making currency wasn't stopping you from playing with your friend to have a friend so idk why you're happy that the game was ruined for those big groups and is still no different for you, a lil weird tbh to wish bad time on others just cause you do something different.
Only shit players appeal to group, and and yet they are always poorer than me that plays 100% solo. Finally let's compete on equal terms and see who the adults are. It was never about the fun, it was always about breaking the game for trading league. The game is by far better solo.
You tried something new, it didn't work. Still great content. At least your not baiting people into your group play set up. Honesty= great content creator.
Sorry to hear your stay strat didn't work according to the plan. Hope you will have plenty of fun in the league anyway. On the other hand, I'm glad that couple groups are not able to monopolies the market. It seems not healthy for the game.
Cool video, thanks for the info. Too bad the experiment didnt work this league. Coordinated play still sounds like fun even if it's not super profitable and I'd be interested in a video on how to put together and run a group like that. Its PoE not LoL so its not like the calling will be super complex and high speed but it still takes some effort to do that coordination.
@@Farpafraf 4d/h including campaign time and considering its league start is not bad. I would be more than happy for that return. But considering substratum is a much better poe player than i am the return is not that great I guess.
I would not say group play is dead, i would say group exploitation is dead and thank fuck for that. Even so, Empys group splitting at 1.5 mirrors each is still considerably more than most people have less than a week in.
There was no exploiting involved wtf you talking about, solo play was more profitable, but you have no idea do you, you just complain cause you feel better that some people can't enjoy the game they like. It is called breaking the game and this game is all about that, it always was and it will be, but killing group play just like that is a bad change. No matter what game you play people who play better will always be ahead of you so stop trying to make everyone be as bad as you and me. It will never happen.
And BTW most people play 30 hours per week maybe less, these guys put 10+ hours a day and hours of planing, so don't tell that these guys should have same as you and me. Jeez
Why are we comparing Empys group to "most people" when most people don't spend a fraction of the time, efforts and innovation as Empy's group. Should instead compare to people who are clearing T17 maps on Day 1 and already have MB or HH
@@hsdExorcist as a person who plays more than 18 hours a day, I can say that you are wrong. There is a difference between profiting from a strategy, and a situation where 0.1% of players create 98% of all currency, unics, and other things. This is explicitly stated in the statistics collected by GGG themselves, and there is nothing normal about it. Do you know why this is happening? Snap talked about this in old videos, but player item quant is multiplicative, so people playing in group 6 actually get not 6 times more loot (which would be logical) and not 12 times more loot (which would be fair considering planning and other optimizations) they get a lot more. Yes, theoretically, if you are a Fabgun and if you (necessarily) have MF, then you will be about as successful as they are in terms of, but this is an unrealistic requirement even for high-level players Ultimately, the very requirement: "if you do some kind of strategy without MF, then you're an idiot" is absurd, violates the basic rule of game design, and deprives players of choice due to FOMO and other shit, since soft-core is obviously built around economics, and people want to be effective in a game where everything depends on money, so they don't really have a choice as long as MF exists.
Hope you feel better tomorrow! Taking an L always sucks but you're a strong content creator and lots of us like watching your breakdowns of builds and strats on youtube. Take care exile!
The idea was interesting but it just didn't work. You gotta try new things to get that info sometimes. You mentioned the audience interaction problems but another issue is that group play simply isn't an option for 99% of the playerbase so you're showing people something they can't do. People look to content creators to see what's possible and if the starting point is "Have 5 friends all playing at the same time" then that automatically rules out pretty much everyone. Anyway, you're still a great creator so don't be too down - looking to see what you can come up with using all the new toys.
I think people who hate group players dont really understand that most low investment solo strats generate currency, not items. If juicers arent getting as many uniques that means endgame items will be more expensive. I wont be surprised if mageblood, etc are many times more expensive this league than previously
Let's be honest here.. The game was never intended for group play. I feel bad for those who can't play in group anymore but frankly I couldn't give 2 shizzles.
This is great, now when T1/T0 uniques drop for the "average" player they found 10+ divines rather than the item being worth 30c. Yeah it sucks your time investment feels wasted but guess what, this loot drop is trial for PoE2 .
I quit after red maps and killing all bosses league mechanic is fun but kinda unrewarding ground loot is ass and the grace / determ changes suck early game which makes the whole game less fun But thats just my opinion
scalping is more profitable than playing the game, but then you get so rich you get bored of the game itself. being rich isn't fun cuz it just gives you creative mode and that's just boring in general to me.
and what about upgrades for your Chars? We all know how much easier it is to gear up in Group. I guess it was just a bit more... I am not sad for MF Groups not to reign the economy anymore, ty GGG.
Oh man, have you tried mapping with a friend in poe? You have no idea do you? You're literally loosing profit if you do maps with a friend and it's not fun.
@@towelie536 I am playing solo you dum dum, I find it funny why people are jealous because some guys who put in time and effort get more loot, you sound like a guy who would pay 500 bucks for a Mageblood if it was in game shop.
Best news! I came to the game like 4-5 years ago and very soon saw some of his streams, where they literally were printing currency. Never could't get why this thing exists... Why do group players have extra buffs for the drop rate. Isn't playing in party an advantage by itself? Hope this thing will never come back and will never exist in PoE 2.
This is why I don't play PoE. It's all about getting currency and loot. And the RNG map drops, everything is basically it's own currency. And last time I played there was 2 currency tabs. I wonder how many currency tabs there are now. And what I don't get is why people just go super hard on minmax currency farming and loot. Unless it is for RMT.
There's A LOT of them. I mean one for the crafting/Bubblegum currency, Essences, Scarabs, Abyss, Delve, Ultimatum, boss fragments. The amount of picking and clicking is insane. The problem with PoE is, that unlike other ARPGs, you need a lot of investing of currency itself so your build doesn't feel shit, because outside over complicated (or rather, time consuming) crafting, ground loot is shit and so are most uniques - you just can't hope for an upgrade outside of crafting or some cheese unique. You will NEVER find something valuable after campaign apart from fractured bases from time to time. In a game of like 200+ skills, there’s maybe 10 that dominate the endgame, as others aren't worth the pain or investment to even bother. Most of them might be good enough for simple alch&go mapping, but barely for more difficult and rewarding content, which leads to barely any build diversity because even simple looking builds like BV need a mirror to be endgame viable. Just look at poe.ninja and the % of builds that are played out of what? 270 skills? In a game that's supposedly the epitome of build variety. No wonder even PoE players get burned out after a week of playing, although they won’t admit it as they're sniffing copium all the time. I gave PoE a shot during 3.22 and 3.23, where there were still casual and beginner friendly mechanics to farm currency in a meaningful time span, as everyone kept promising me all this crazy freedom, build and content variety. Most skills aren’t even viable for the content you want to do, and them and the farming strategie while cool, get nerfed league by league, that in the end you realise for the time investment aren’t worth trying as you won’t be able to progress your build in a timely manner. Past two leagues are just shit for anyone that's not the top 0.1% because GGG caters to them, i. e. playing the cat and mouse game, where if the streamers do something "OP" even if it needs a mirror investment to get there, it gets automatically nerfed to oblivion, also hitting systems casuals rely on in the process.
@@Venvaneless I hear you! Thank you for your time commenting. I agree with you. I started playing PoE when it was released. It's a much different now. Last Epoch does it well, where it collects everything with one click. And even auto inventory sorting. It's not healthy the amount of clicking that needs to be done in PoE, in the long run. I am not surprised that there are even move currencies, thanks for letting me know! It really is a big timesink once you get to endgame. Too bad, since it is a good game, but can't just be bothered with the amount farming to be done. And the map system is it's own currency in itself, that I never liked. While making maps harder, one needs to use currency as well. One problem my group of friends had, was when you could do group play, which seems to have been severely nerfed. The amount of thrash items filling the floor made the performance dip drastically. The amount of white, blue and rare items was insane. Anyhow! :D
To be honest, what you are describing does not sound healthy. Like at all. It does not sound like you're having a lot of fun, but are experiencing frustration because the slot machine does not give your money back with flashy lights and loud noises. If this is what you love doing and have fun doing it, I apologize for my assumption. But it does not sound like you're having a lot of fun.
Being behind isn't necessarily a bad thing. Now you can make your content from the perspective of what 99% of us have to deal with. If you focused How-To's on playing from behind I'd watch the shit out of that!
I see this video quite late but there is crazy group and solo strat with farming bosses in t17 with titanium, and i am not sure if you or empy tested that. But it should be much better than what you got with blight.
It is so incredibly sad that the cut from a week of group play is less than an hour or two worth of work by a single sanctum runner. Group play really did get hit with the classic GGG triple tap into oblivion. Hope you can recover your start and have some fun now
sorry but i personally love it. I always thought grouplay was kinda dumb in terms of difference to solo play. I'd much rather have solo and group balanced, but i also would much rather have group play dead instead of it beeing way more profitable than solo.
it's sad that the actual gameplay experience of party play is so poor. unfortunately i can't even imagine what could be done to make it a good experience
A few things come to mind: * Teleport to player, not the zone checkpoint * Share visibility to party quests * Allow party members to resurrect you before you check out and have to portal back in - especially for map running * Alternatively: make the map portals per-person or usable 1x per party member when the map is opened * Optionally, if allowing player rez, cut death XP loss in half * Make it visible in-game as to what you can and cannot do in a group (ie. Bestiary) Note: I and my group play to play together, not get market rich so my suggestions are around playing together rather than making currency.
They did nerf drops again, right? It feels like another league a while ago where very little would drop in general. I guess they warned us when they made a league where you can almost passively get stuff from the mechanic.
I did trade here and there when playing MMO but I did it as a Mechanic of the game not a whole job. I can see the appeal but that's not the way I focus when "Playing" something. The fact that all the hard work here is not about Experiencing the Moment, but boiled down into Profits alone sadden me, I don't know why. It's their way of playing a game but I for one can't got in their boat, even a speed run grind, I also can't do that. My joy of playing a game is experiencing the moment, enjoy what the game has to offer not to made a bank. This is a part where I don't like PoE, the game focus waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on making currency per minute. so I usually disconnect myself to these kind of "Efficiency farming" strat content. I still trade when I got big drop but I see that as a Bonus on my playtime, it does increase the joy but not as a whole. When playing game is tie to making Profits, I don't know I can call that as playing a game. I would still want to play with my friend tho but not for drop multiplier you know.
I think group play is not very interesting to watch is, because there is so much happening on screen and you have no idea what anything of it is. And with these loot explosions that are 99% shit you don't even get excited about that.
Unless im friends with the person i dont group with anyone since it gives nothing. Ill carry for currency but other than that group play is stupid since it turns into dog walking, one leads the others follow just boring
Overall it seems like loot is bad this league, they nerfed ground loot because they added back wisps and sentinels, but since sentinels and wisps add almost no loot, youre on a net negative in terms of loot, league is kinda fun, but im fucking poor this league
I think a very video idea is how you get on your feet now, from behind, what you farm now, I think this will help a lot of people. The performance of the game is worse and worse every league, a lot of crashes and other technical problems. For me the biggest down side of the game is the xp lost on death, is so damn annoying and they killed 5 way too and they killed last league xp farm too 😢.
@@justjay3750 are you comparing it to last league, or the league before that? Affliction had Wildwood which gave a lot of quantity buffs, and Necropolis with the Lantern also gave quantity buffs to mobs assigned certain Necro mods. We got none of that this league. There's also RNG factor, so if you're comparing it to your luckiest league, well then you shouldn't. Average out all your luck in every league then compare it to this league.
@@kelex1298 They also removed some base line monster quant. nerfed scarabs & chisels drops & nerfed scarabs themselves. there are no end game strats rn
@@Gweriaa It's not in the patch notes. They changed the multiplicative effects of quantity, which doesn't impact the lower-end players and impacts only the absolute top-end. Scarabs nerfed yes, because there were insane edge cases last league, and T17 exacerbated the issue, but outside of those, drops for them are normal. Again, remember that T17 had extreme modifiers and Necropolis buffed quantity for everything, which impacted loot drop massively. For especially scarabs, you would really feel this because the only League you can pull comparison to is Necropolis.
I know this won't be popular answer but I'm OK with it. Maybe PoE can get on with balance changes that are good for the 99% of folks that arnt grouping then and dial things in closer? Just a thought. I know you will still find a way to make awesome content and I'm sorry if you guys are bummed out that group play feels dead
hot take: unless you're running a rmt scheme, play the game the way thats fun not the way thats most 'efficient'. like if a friend told me he wouldn't play poe with me anymore because its not "profit efficient" id question why im friends with the loser in the first place. Thats bungie exec ass behavior.
While I do feel the loot this league in general is shit due to all the changes - I wouldn't ditch the friend I'm playing with just because "it's more efficient". In two-person party group i'ts not even that big of a difference. The point of playing together should be first and foremost having fun and to help each other out. You need better friends I guess. Feel free to join us if you need someone to play with btw. :)
Kinda sad, i loved watching the high end group juicing simply because how ridiculous it usually is. I made 80 div in the last 2 days in sanctum solo so yeah... solo speed farming has always been more profitable than group juicing but this is pretty sad.
Solo play ain't worth a fuck either. Like they must just want us playng everyday for four months. Nobody got time for that. They really need to buff the big currency drops just a tad, doing twenty fucking maps and getting 0 divines, and shit gear when the maps are pretty decent feels bad. Also, everyone I send like 250000 worth shipment, and some random ass shit happens, it got stolen, wtf??? Like I don't even wanna play tomorrow honestly.
Hey, you're angry and that's fine, but you're honestly delusional if you think you need to play all day everyday to achieve anything in PoE. First thing I got from your comment : you seem to be the kind of inexperienced player who's waiting for divines to drop. That's NOT how the game works. You have to sell valuable goods (gear, currencies) for chaos and concert to divines, you ain't getting much raw drops especialy during progression. As for solo being unprofitable : I played about 50hours this league so far (yes you might think that's a lot), and made about 300 divines. From which only 2 were a raw drop (what you seem to be expecting every other map). I'm experienced, I have a clear plan in mind when playing (for example, fishing for fractured / synth bases in ritual) and I do that efficiently. If you're having a bad time that's probably because you're inefficient. And that's ok! But you shouldn't blame your lack of experience / efficiency / whatever it is on the game. With all the noob oriented ressources out there that exist to help you enjoy this complex game, there's no reason for you to not find success IF YOU'RE WILLING TO LEARN. Or you can keep crying about how unfair the game is to you, but that won't magicaly solve your situation.
Oh and btw, I make that kind of money every league farming what I enjoy, which is often the worst content in the game div/hour wise (metamorph, delve, ritual etc...). So there's rly no excuse, whatever you enjoy doing in the game, there's a way for you to thrive of of doing it.
I'm sorry you happened to pick the worst league for group juicing. Glad you guys gave it a good try I'm sure you learned a bunch of new things about this way-too-complex game. From a content creator perspective, it's a giant hit or miss, some people love the constant "podcast" some people are just looking for the chill "one-on-one" time with their favorite streamer. Hopefully we get some ground loot changes in the future. Enjoy the rest of your league man
Hi dad
Hi mr Empyriangaming television .ttv
I don't see why group play SHOULD be profitable compared to solo. Why do groups need to get rich and dominate the economy? Let the (expierience times play time) be the decisive factor. Play together because its fun, not because it makes you rich and you leeway into some strategy.
No lifing group players make unique gear more accessible to the rest of the player base
Because thats how online games work, the power of friends and groups are more powerful than that of a solo player.
Other mmos require the game to be played in a group, be blessed that you dont need 5 people to clear maps and bosses
Fr Empy just cries because now he has to play the game like everyone else
@@LuckyArtist21 you are right and I Don't understand how people can't grasp the concept. People get so fucking hung up on WOW THOSE GUYS GET SO MUCH LOOT! like yeah but its because of an extreme effort and efficiency. I personally think its cool when the unique prices are low as fuck because i can play more builds then.
@@LuckyArtist21 No it doesn't.
You didn't fail, you did some aggressive science and found a solution that doesn't have a strong outcome. Science be like that sometimes.
nice
Sometime it do be like that.
It's like that more than 95% of the time lol
I play with 1 other person, i dont expect better loot. Just a better experience.
Then youre playing a wrong game. Poe is not fun to play in group just for fun. It's not made for that
Same here! If all they do is to improve the group experience, I don't care about having more loot. Just approximately the same as playing alone, but more fun to play together.
@@hsdExorcist not true at all, i have been doing alot of duo's with a friend and it's been working great
@@aniapersa3454 Good for you I guess. I played with a friend, we do unique maps together or we help if someone does encounter something they can't kill, that's it. Mapping in duo is a waste of time and currency, plus it's not fun either.
@@hsdExorcist i am playing in duo and i am having fun. maybe you dont need to tell me how to play the game that i like?)
Well it's bad content because nobody wants to watch something they can't replicate and it's also terrible for the economy when 5-10 players can tilt the market for literally everyone else, which seems to be the explicit goal of groups like this. I'm glad it's dead.
I enjoy watching the crazy loot empy gets with his team, also group play in the past tends not to be better than the top end juicer solo strategies. Its sad to see this content gone as its the only real multiplier thing to do in POE, but i am glad that solo MF is gone, just sad that groups were lost in the process.
you relaise that it hasnt actually been that bad for most leagues, the last 2 leagues were outliers because of the card strats and just the league prior being nuts, empy clearly explains it in his videos and breakdowns of it all, aswell as in his solo currency making advventures where he removes big rng drops
if you are a normal player who doesnt sit on tiktok 50 percent of the time, and actually plays the game you can grind a similar amount to the groups, it only looks like a lot because these are people who are speedrunning campaign in like 3 hrs leaguestart, there then also using anywhere from 6 to 9 people total running the whole operation and it gets split
if you were to put in 14 hour days of pure non stop grind day in day out with a solid strat making as much as empy does in most leagues group play sessions is not hard
@@portport9139 With MF dead, solo is going to take a massive hit too. Good. People farming mirrors every day is ridiculous. Empys group is like the bottom rung of what was possible and the Korean and south asian groups put them to shame and really dictated the market and were massive fuelers of RMT.
@@totallynottrademarked5279 uhh all I know is I never liked mf and never went it and fell bad I wasn't mf before sometimes, now I don't have that feeling and that's good, people can still make plenty of mirrors solo
You can replicate it, just get gud and find friends. Duuuh?? Pathetico
Man people really hate group play lol
crab in the bucket syndrome
Imagine having friends
For good reason. Group play like this destroys the unique market. It's the reason that the league market only lasted for 5-7 days in the past - all of these groups were able to come online several days earlier than solo players, even solo no-lifers, because they're using 10c builds to prop up one build, and then farming at 80% of the efficiency of having 8 builds worth 200div.
You will never have a healthy market if these support builds exist in the way they used to.
@@ruibarian5187 explain to me precisely how this "destroys the unique market".
@@ruibarian5187 if destroying the unique market means making the items cheaper for the rest of us then ur right
Man only a mirror and a half in less than a week. Bless their hearts how will the ever cope
Did you miss the part where this was over 6 people playing 14 hours per day, all extremely experienced with & skilled at the game, coordinating & cooperating?
6 people 14 hrs a day, if you have never seen a mirror in your entire time playing either your someone who cant play a lot which then you shouldnt be complaining
or your just bad simply put there are tonnes of currency making strats that can pump out a mirror a week for normal players but you have to be putting in the time to get that much, im not talking about having the game open for 14 hrs im talking like 13hrs of being in maps clearing mobs
most people say "oh i do 15 hr days of poe" oh really? how much of that is on your hideout browsing the market looking at youtube or tiktok, most people do that and just expect currency to fall into your lap
@@i_lunarrnah
Yeah, with that much effort and time put in it is so sad honestly, but dumbos like this guys have no idea, he wants to have a mirror as a login reward. Oh bless you
@@snozzmcberry2366 Wtf are you on about, all they did was click the screen for loot for 14 hours a day lmfao. You're next level clueless if you think that group play with a billion aura's and curses takes any amount of skill.
🎉🎉🎉.
Group up cus you like playing with your friends, not to game the market
This game is not made for fun group play, it's made to be more profitable. You think it's fun to play with a friend and just run around one shotting screens of mobs with flashbang skills? Have you tried it? It's not fun, this game is not made for that. Diablo 4 is fun to play in group, poe2 is gonna be fun too I think, but not poe 1 and it will never be.
@@hsdExorcist yes, and yes i have. Game was not made to cheese the market with group play. Group play is to play with friends.
@@hsdExorcist you don't really like your friends do you ?
@@gantzplayer.n.m4410 I don't see any reason to play this game with friend if not to make some good stats to earn currency. So you're quite wrong, I play a lot of games that are fun with friends and this game is not one of them, so stop putting this dumb idea and converting a good game in to some pathetic "everyone is in equal grounds" pile of crap, no one is stopping you to play and have fun and never did. But people who invest time and effort should be rewarded and whiny girls like you who want login rewards as mirrors should go play something else. How dumb you guys are, trying to make this game an adventure time with friend :D get the hell outta here. I play this game and talk to my friend on discord sharing experience and what loot we get, no person who plays this game seriously is gonna play duo mapping stats to lose currency and time. For ppl like you it doesnt even matter if others get more loot, you just whine about it when you see it even though it doesn't affect your gameplay at all. Just dumb
@@hsdExorcist just say you don't "have" friends geez, we don't need to hear you doing some mental gymnastics.
Thank you for the honest feedback and making mistakes so we don't have to. Love your content as always. Keep up the good work!!!
like how empy is saying grouping is dead with 5mirrors in his stash....
Group play is dead *wipes tears with 100$ bills*
5 mirrors divided by the amout of people in the group. Spoiler it's less than a solo player.
Do remember they have to split it with around 10 people. Also, that's the result of farming for 16+ hours a day. If you guys are playing at the top of the game for 16+ hours a day, you wouldn't be far from half a mirror.
@@kelex1298 Sure, but i'm playing at the bottom at 16 hours a day, and i'd be happy with a quarter of a mirror.
@@lanmandragoran8337that’s a skill issue. Well, skill and knowledge issue.
"EAT THE RICH"
Also "oh no why are all these items so expensive this season?"
🤣🤣🤣
said no one ever. I don't care if uniques are 50% expensive if many valuable currencies are 100% cheaper because of the groups printing them. I drop Patient and it's 25c instead of being hidden from loot filter like in Necropolis
@@troll371 a single league where headhunter isnt expensive and u act like its every time, SOLO PLAYERS (FUBGUN) Caused the rogue exile unique dropping strats to make t0 uniques to be worthless, clueless yellow map blaster reddit andy has no idea on what hes speaking about.
@@kasz306 first, HH is farmed through cards also, and because of Curation its price began tanking even before rogue exile strats
second, not everyone who disagrees with you is a noob. Got 120+ divines this league solo without any abuses, not even using top strats like early sanctum. And if you didn't see how multiboxers in 3.24 actually streamed how they farm insane amounts of t0 div cards on a 6-party twink setup, even selling info how to multibox for 300$, don't call anyone clueless. PoE doesn't need parties for uniques generation, it's an old bullshit tale propagated since PathofMatth
@@troll371 congrats im glad u enjoy guaranteed drop mechanics, guaranteed you didnt farm your currency in juice mechanics, couldnt imagine spending more than 5mins in a blight/sanctum prison.
Im a lil peeved at the mindset of those that wna defend how awful group play is based on "why should you get that when i don't". I do agree to an extent with the extremes of this argument. But the reality for the majority of the playerbase is that you are punished for playing with your friends.
Im also aware that my side of the argument is also playing on the same "why you not me?" But its really "not us".
I feel that at the low levels of group play it is still incredibly unrewarding. At best you are getting slightly more as a group but after the split each person is getting much less than they would have solo.
Not to mention that solo many builds can cruise through maps and progression while if they played in a group the additional scalings would murder their builds and they would fail their voidstone attempts and fail their maps.
Im just saying i think group play is awful at both ends of the spectrum but people wna ignore that for casuals and friends it is a frustrating experience too, just bc some other dudes abused it like a sweatshop.
I hope they figure it out. Getting 50% increased modifiers... split between two people with the content beinf significantly more difficult during progression feels bad and literally makes the casual group meta into solo play while chatting in disc.
There has to be a way to reach a happy medium but im not that guy that can figure that out.
@grimdeathkid but way less currency per person per hour. And except for the last 2 leagues solo play has always been better
@grimdeathkid for more than 90% of the playerbase the maps being easier literally translates to getting more rewards.
And again... im really confused how people think a multiplier of 1.5x split between 2 people is MORE than 2 people getting 100%
Yalls strawman is using the upper echelon of full juiced maps with full investments modifying those scaling to absurd levels (in previous leagues) to make this argument that 2 friends progressing and playing casually can't think the experience is worse than solo.
Let's do some basic math for the majority of casual group/friends playing:
2 people doing 2 maps solo
2x2=4 for reward potential
2 people doing content together
2x1.5= 3 for the reward potential.
25% less reward for 50% increase in difficulty scaling
But stick to the "all you people with friends get more" trope just bc 0.1% of the elites with hyper efficiency and time to grind could take advantage of crazy scalings that have no relevance to the rest of us. Which btw... the last part isn't even true this league. We can enjoy the high prices due to lack if supply now.
@grimdeathkid the game has been balanced like that for the longest time. There were a few mechanics thats scaled with multiple players but almost all of them have been removed. Group play should be similar to solo play not significantly worse. Thats how it was for most leagues, group play being competitive altough solo being better
@@grimdeathkid the hard part about group play is getting together enough people and coordinating them together. Group play is probably 1/3 of the currency per hour compared to solo player.
@grimdeathkid i would like to be able to make competitive money while playing yes that is important to me. And playing as a group is significantly harder than playing solo. Whats easier is gearing.
@subtractem, I hate to see this didn't work out for you. I have to admit I found the stream less engaging to watch, but I thought it would be cool to see the recaps and strats. I hope you enjoy flying solo this league, it has been a great league so far imo.
so happy they did that - such farm parties ruined each and every market for casuals
As a mostly solo player, with atlas map completions with friends, I can understand the jealousy of watching group players PRINT money... However, I also think that the intensity and coordination that is required for groups to hit those marks should be rewarded. Since new league starts are actually clean economies, I think that's fair. Sorry it didn't work out for you, but I appreciate the time, energy, and effort you put forth and am glad you shared what you have with us :)
A mirror per person or more is not dead. That's more than most people make I their entire time playing poe. Reset your perspective.
This is literally their job. Of course they're going to have an unfathomable amount of currency compared to you. They make like 5div/hr each
@skylar4300 no. I've watched sub for like 3 years, he wasn't always this giga money insane build creator. He's been on the "more more more!" Train for a while, and I've stopped watching for that reason. I'm sure some people love the gambles and general insanity.
@@matthewcarrick2722 dude, he's just playing the game. why does it upset you that people make more currency? Also he's not a "giga money insane build creator". quite the opposite compared to some other content creators. you just don't play the game as much and thats okay dude.
It is dead. 5 div /h hour is dead bro lmao, its literally 90% less loot
@@matthewcarrick2722 In your comment you mentioned a mirror or more per person. Obviously you were referring to empys group because subtractem made like 18 div for 5 days of work.
so what you're telling me is that uniques will actually have value past week 1 oh nooo what a tragedy
@@stfucookieman957 it means you won't be able to buy them anymore with your 10 divines that you make per season.
hope i dont see you complaining when you cant get your endgame uniques later, as a casual, this kinda sucks because it was these people that i was able to actually get the gear i needed to actually play the game and have fun, with them now not getting anything, the market will be worse and everything will be expensive, including scarabs, which means endgame juicing with little start up will become even more worse due to the demand of scarabs, i had hard time even trying to get into a endgame juice that my build could handle because of how expensive everything was. (although i may be wrong on that as its only been a few days and low teir juicing strats haven't been found yet at the time of writing this comment.)
@@datonedumbasian4919 HMMM... let me think. with old mf I,playing harvest,farmed for a week to buy mb,which mfers can farm multiple in a day. and i will be angry now?) no,cuz other economy will be better. btw scarabs won't cost more now,try to think why. a little tip: why in affliction there was sextants that cost 100c+? cuz somebody has too much money) and who is was?
and btw, if you really need a mageblood to just play red maps(even juiced),it is something wrong with your character
@@datonedumbasian4919 Nope, that's not the problem with these ppl, this is just one group and it's the "Only one" that we've seen for the moment.
Losing this one group doesn't mean the Market will die or whatever.
The real problem is PoE Gear progression is somewhat focusing on trading alittle too much.
It's like you only play the game for the currency but not for the actual upgrade of your Character.
If the crafting is not so convoluted, you might not need trading that much even for Casual player.
Good thing tho, this league made trading for currency way more easier but still, you have to go on a trade site to DM for Unique you want.
I hope PoE steer out of "Chaos Per Minute" gaming mindset in the future.
@@hsdExorcistmaybe an issue for a casual loser who's complaining rather than playing the game lmao. meleeorgey on Poe ninja (:
I had a really tough league start too! I’m sure your recovery will be faster than mine.
I’m sorry it’s been such a painful week for you. I hope it’s turns around quick.
"Full despair" is going to be my next build.
Lol he got as much as a solo would get in two hours doing a good atlas strat. Thats crazy that they continued after this first day. Bash your face in wall and do it again for 14 straight hours 5 days in a row lol
Thank you and your group for the great sacrifice .
Ok let me just start by saying that I agree with the decision GGG made in removing Quantity from the game. That being said..... JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE GROW THE FUCK UP. It genuinely pisses me off when people say stuff like "haha group players got what they deserved". Are we just that jealous of other players loot that we want their experience in the game to be ruined to make our experience better? If you want more loot GO FARM MORE LOOT (A.K.A invest more and pick a good strategy). Its been proven by many people and there is much data to suggest that the way group play was before this patch, was very close to what a solo player could pull off given enough investment and the right build. If you don't believe me just go look at SnooBae85's videos the last couple leagues. The guy juices like a body builder and gets crazy loot.... and guess what.... HES A SOLO PLAYER GUYS. The exception is of course necropolis league with the Meatsack shenanigans. GGG stated themselves the facts on that particular matter.
not that sad that group play is shit now . Sad to hear it was a bad week for you streaming wise.
I made 28 divines playing solo in the last 12 hours. dropped a doctor card(12d) dropped a max roll dying sun ruby flask(8d) and bought a gem for 2d but then sold it 2hours later for 10d(8d profit). I also took a 6hour nap during the last 12hours.
Lol im stuck with doing ten stash tabs worth of daily chaos recipes😂😂😂😢😅
The problem is people compare fun with profit. Group play is about fun or overpass hard content. You cant perfectly replicate what you did with the group but by yourself. And you had fun doing it. Who cares how much you make. And even then.. not too bad anyway, that shard is probably whole new build
There is strategy which gives insane amount of t1 and t0 uniques in party right now, group play is still strong empy group just didnt find it
This is why I like solo playing games like this.
You will recover, it's good to experiment a little to push the boundaries.
Played mostly solo made more than 30 div. Your split was crazy to see
coming from outside the group play fence historically looked at gf strats as ... a tad lopsided .. even if it looked impressive in aggregate, and not as outlandish once split compared to solo - ggg overcompensated and sure kneecapped it (lets be honest, taken out back and bludgeoned) more than i think they could/should have , and unexpected IRL and technical issues didn't help any , but it's been an honor and a privilege and enjoyed the (bumpy) journey and working with everyone
Not feeling as bad about only have ~6divs as a solo player.
I don't think ppl should get more rewards because they play in groups... it always felt weird for me
Oof. Rough man. Hope you have a better rest of the league, both in terms of personal enjoyment & the work-side of things.
kind of a shame, group play should be encouraged.
I'm confused. Why are we sad that a strategy that exponentially catapults people who already have a crazy advantage even further is gone? Good riddance.
In a social game there is now, literally no reason to play together. I'm also confused how others having currency affects you.
@@danielwood3486 IF the reasoning behind you playing in a group, is better loot than you are not playing in group for ANYTHING else, than personal gain, it's fun to play with the rich, now come and play and be like the average player, to feel what it's like :)
@@danielwood3486 Oh and by the way, GGG didn't forbid you to play with your buddies and on the average you are not shooting yourself in the foot for playing group, you are just not getting BETTER rewards but you are not getting WORSE either. And that's good!
@@EyesFireableyou are getting worse results, what are you talking about? You’d get better loot solo farming. Like, straight up. Stop lying
It never did that. It was just competitive with solo play now it isnt.
Glad you tried it, looked fun and was hoping for more videos from you but it is what it is.
every time i see someone being mad at Empy and his group i lose brain cells
its crazy that people have no concept for how important time , effort , knowledge and skill are for the outcome of anything
the whole equality of outcome mindvirus has taken over the west thats for sure
tbh this is how group play should be / feel. i play with a friend to have a friend not because its the best thing i can do. in fact id say most people want to play with 1 other person at max. if group play was more rewarding the 2 persons should be the sweet spot with more than 2 having diminishing returns.
Solo play was more profitable then group. These guys put in a lot of time, effort and planing to reach these results. This game is not made for a fun group play experience, have you tried it? It sucks. So if it's not even giving you any more reward it's useless and just makes your game laggy and you lose currency. Why do people complain when they have no idea what they are complaining about. If you play 4 hours a day why do you want other you be as poor as you?
@@hsdExorcist group play has been the most profitable way to play for years bud
I mean the big tryhard groups making currency wasn't stopping you from playing with your friend to have a friend so idk why you're happy that the game was ruined for those big groups and is still no different for you, a lil weird tbh to wish bad time on others just cause you do something different.
@@yeyeandethis is incorrect, solo play has always been more profitable than group
@@mtxumi just a lie buddy 🙂
its good that group play is this rewarding. 99% of people enjoy solo much much more and will feel good to hear this.
Same, we play arpgs to run away from mmos lmao
I don't see why group play being good ruins your time as a solo, that just seems like a problem with mentality
This guys comment is basically. " I'm glad other people can't have fun " . And I'm just really confused by thst level of hostility.
Because they have a very big impact on economy and they could easily monopolize items, like the asshats of tft did in the past.
Only shit players appeal to group, and and yet they are always poorer than me that plays 100% solo.
Finally let's compete on equal terms and see who the adults are.
It was never about the fun, it was always about breaking the game for trading league.
The game is by far better solo.
You tried something new, it didn't work. Still great content. At least your not baiting people into your group play set up. Honesty= great content creator.
mi mi mi mi... the real life of a normal player.
Like many other comments I am also glad it's nerfed. Don't resent you for giving it a go though!
As a sol SC trade player I much prefer a less inflated economy. But maybe my economic understanding is lacking
Sorry to hear your stay strat didn't work according to the plan. Hope you will have plenty of fun in the league anyway.
On the other hand, I'm glad that couple groups are not able to monopolies the market. It seems not healthy for the game.
Cool video, thanks for the info. Too bad the experiment didnt work this league. Coordinated play still sounds like fun even if it's not super profitable and I'd be interested in a video on how to put together and run a group like that. Its PoE not LoL so its not like the calling will be super complex and high speed but it still takes some effort to do that coordination.
I play with friends because it's more fun not because of the loot. It's also totally fine if you enjoy min maxing the loot, of course!
I wish I could have a mirror and a half every 70 hours
that's 4d/h at the current mirror price. Not really that impressive.
@@Farpafraf 4d/h including campaign time and considering its league start is not bad. I would be more than happy for that return. But considering substratum is a much better poe player than i am the return is not that great I guess.
@@Farpafraf Yeah a mirror and a half isn't that impressive
I would not say group play is dead, i would say group exploitation is dead and thank fuck for that. Even so, Empys group splitting at 1.5 mirrors each is still considerably more than most people have less than a week in.
There was no exploiting involved wtf you talking about, solo play was more profitable, but you have no idea do you, you just complain cause you feel better that some people can't enjoy the game they like. It is called breaking the game and this game is all about that, it always was and it will be, but killing group play just like that is a bad change. No matter what game you play people who play better will always be ahead of you so stop trying to make everyone be as bad as you and me. It will never happen.
And BTW most people play 30 hours per week maybe less, these guys put 10+ hours a day and hours of planing, so don't tell that these guys should have same as you and me. Jeez
Why are we comparing Empys group to "most people" when most people don't spend a fraction of the time, efforts and innovation as Empy's group. Should instead compare to people who are clearing T17 maps on Day 1 and already have MB or HH
@@hsdExorcist as a person who plays more than 18 hours a day, I can say that you are wrong. There is a difference between profiting from a strategy, and a situation where 0.1% of players create 98% of all currency, unics, and other things. This is explicitly stated in the statistics collected by GGG themselves, and there is nothing normal about it.
Do you know why this is happening? Snap talked about this in old videos, but player item quant is multiplicative, so people playing in group 6 actually get not 6 times more loot (which would be logical) and not 12 times more loot (which would be fair considering planning and other optimizations) they get a lot more. Yes, theoretically, if you are a Fabgun and if you (necessarily) have MF, then you will be about as successful as they are in terms of, but this is an unrealistic requirement even for high-level players
Ultimately, the very requirement: "if you do some kind of strategy without MF, then you're an idiot" is absurd, violates the basic rule of game design, and deprives players of choice due to FOMO and other shit, since soft-core is obviously built around economics, and people want to be effective in a game where everything depends on money, so they don't really have a choice as long as MF exists.
@@hsdExorcist gargle harder bud
THANKS GOD. sorry abbout that..
haha.
..i..
Hope you feel better tomorrow! Taking an L always sucks but you're a strong content creator and lots of us like watching your breakdowns of builds and strats on youtube.
Take care exile!
"Group play is balanced around more people so rewards make up for compared to solo"
Also people who dominate the market: groups
OG
Group play is meant for playing with friends, NOT too abuse loot gain.
The idea was interesting but it just didn't work. You gotta try new things to get that info sometimes. You mentioned the audience interaction problems but another issue is that group play simply isn't an option for 99% of the playerbase so you're showing people something they can't do. People look to content creators to see what's possible and if the starting point is "Have 5 friends all playing at the same time" then that automatically rules out pretty much everyone. Anyway, you're still a great creator so don't be too down - looking to see what you can come up with using all the new toys.
I think people who hate group players dont really understand that most low investment solo strats generate currency, not items. If juicers arent getting as many uniques that means endgame items will be more expensive. I wont be surprised if mageblood, etc are many times more expensive this league than previously
So happy to see GGG finally trying to unfuck the games eeconomy. Group play should not be any more or less profitable than solo play.
Let's be honest here.. The game was never intended for group play. I feel bad for those who can't play in group anymore but frankly I couldn't give 2 shizzles.
This is great, now when T1/T0 uniques drop for the "average" player they found 10+ divines rather than the item being worth 30c. Yeah it sucks your time investment feels wasted but guess what, this loot drop is trial for PoE2 .
I quit after red maps and killing all bosses league mechanic is fun but kinda unrewarding ground loot is ass and the grace / determ changes suck early game which makes the whole game less fun
But thats just my opinion
scalping is more profitable than playing the game, but then you get so rich you get bored of the game itself.
being rich isn't fun cuz it just gives you creative mode and that's just boring in general to me.
Took it long enough, crashing the markets together
i legit got more divines trough first 10 tiers of maps solo lmao how bad is group play now
Nobody can hear empi for the millionth time. You can never hear shit when him or wudijo talk.
and what about upgrades for your Chars? We all know how much easier it is to gear up in Group. I guess it was just a bit more... I am not sad for MF Groups not to reign the economy anymore, ty GGG.
IMHO, group and solo play should be equally rewarding/challenging. The point of group play should just be to play with friends.
Oh man, have you tried mapping with a friend in poe? You have no idea do you? You're literally loosing profit if you do maps with a friend and it's not fun.
@@hsdExorcist than play solo, like 99% players?
@@towelie536 I am playing solo you dum dum, I find it funny why people are jealous because some guys who put in time and effort get more loot, you sound like a guy who would pay 500 bucks for a Mageblood if it was in game shop.
@@hsdExorcistthen play solo if you care so much about profit. Not like you have a choice based on your other comments.
RIght, but it isnt? group play is literally less rewarding atp
Best news! I came to the game like 4-5 years ago and very soon saw some of his streams, where they literally were printing currency. Never could't get why this thing exists... Why do group players have extra buffs for the drop rate. Isn't playing in party an advantage by itself?
Hope this thing will never come back and will never exist in PoE 2.
this comment section is SALTY!!!
the game is the game, and isnt for the masses of the top 1%
You win some, you lose some.
Aaaa yes, mmo where your punished for faving friends .
This is why I don't play PoE. It's all about getting currency and loot. And the RNG map drops, everything is basically it's own currency. And last time I played there was 2 currency tabs. I wonder how many currency tabs there are now. And what I don't get is why people just go super hard on minmax currency farming and loot. Unless it is for RMT.
There's A LOT of them. I mean one for the crafting/Bubblegum currency, Essences, Scarabs, Abyss, Delve, Ultimatum, boss fragments. The amount of picking and clicking is insane.
The problem with PoE is, that unlike other ARPGs, you need a lot of investing of currency itself so your build doesn't feel shit, because outside over complicated (or rather, time consuming) crafting, ground loot is shit and so are most uniques - you just can't hope for an upgrade outside of crafting or some cheese unique. You will NEVER find something valuable after campaign apart from fractured bases from time to time.
In a game of like 200+ skills, there’s maybe 10 that dominate the endgame, as others aren't worth the pain or investment to even bother. Most of them might be good enough for simple alch&go mapping, but barely for more difficult and rewarding content, which leads to barely any build diversity because even simple looking builds like BV need a mirror to be endgame viable. Just look at poe.ninja and the % of builds that are played out of what? 270 skills? In a game that's supposedly the epitome of build variety.
No wonder even PoE players get burned out after a week of playing, although they won’t admit it as they're sniffing copium all the time.
I gave PoE a shot during 3.22 and 3.23, where there were still casual and beginner friendly mechanics to farm currency in a meaningful time span, as everyone kept promising me all this crazy freedom, build and content variety. Most skills aren’t even viable for the content you want to do, and them and the farming strategie while cool, get nerfed league by league, that in the end you realise for the time investment aren’t worth trying as you won’t be able to progress your build in a timely manner.
Past two leagues are just shit for anyone that's not the top 0.1% because GGG caters to them, i. e. playing the cat and mouse game, where if the streamers do something "OP" even if it needs a mirror investment to get there, it gets automatically nerfed to oblivion, also hitting systems casuals rely on in the process.
@@Venvaneless I hear you! Thank you for your time commenting. I agree with you. I started playing PoE when it was released. It's a much different now. Last Epoch does it well, where it collects everything with one click. And even auto inventory sorting. It's not healthy the amount of clicking that needs to be done in PoE, in the long run.
I am not surprised that there are even move currencies, thanks for letting me know! It really is a big timesink once you get to endgame. Too bad, since it is a good game, but can't just be bothered with the amount farming to be done. And the map system is it's own currency in itself, that I never liked. While making maps harder, one needs to use currency as well.
One problem my group of friends had, was when you could do group play, which seems to have been severely nerfed. The amount of thrash items filling the floor made the performance dip drastically. The amount of white, blue and rare items was insane.
Anyhow! :D
To be honest, what you are describing does not sound healthy. Like at all.
It does not sound like you're having a lot of fun, but are experiencing frustration because the slot machine does not give your money back with flashy lights and loud noises.
If this is what you love doing and have fun doing it, I apologize for my assumption. But it does not sound like you're having a lot of fun.
Couldn't be happier :) Group within trade league are a cancer ; should have their own dedicated leagues.
Being behind isn't necessarily a bad thing. Now you can make your content from the perspective of what 99% of us have to deal with. If you focused How-To's on playing from behind I'd watch the shit out of that!
That's great news, grouping has been broken for many years so nice to see it finally change for the rest of the playerbase
I see this video quite late but there is crazy group and solo strat with farming bosses in t17 with titanium, and i am not sure if you or empy tested that. But it should be much better than what you got with blight.
It is so incredibly sad that the cut from a week of group play is less than an hour or two worth of work by a single sanctum runner. Group play really did get hit with the classic GGG triple tap into oblivion. Hope you can recover your start and have some fun now
This says more about sanctum than anything.
@@datastormyyeah, sanctum has a lot of rewards. You need a specialized build, but I would still consider it overtuned.
sorry but i personally love it. I always thought grouplay was kinda dumb in terms of difference to solo play. I'd much rather have solo and group balanced, but i also would much rather have group play dead instead of it beeing way more profitable than solo.
it's sad that the actual gameplay experience of party play is so poor. unfortunately i can't even imagine what could be done to make it a good experience
A few things come to mind:
* Teleport to player, not the zone checkpoint
* Share visibility to party quests
* Allow party members to resurrect you before you check out and have to portal back in - especially for map running
* Alternatively: make the map portals per-person or usable 1x per party member when the map is opened
* Optionally, if allowing player rez, cut death XP loss in half
* Make it visible in-game as to what you can and cannot do in a group (ie. Bestiary)
Note: I and my group play to play together, not get market rich so my suggestions are around playing together rather than making currency.
Good, it shouldn't.
@@StanleyDarsh22why not
I guess we all need to learn to do fucking sanctum, is the only place you get divines anymore...
They did nerf drops again, right? It feels like another league a while ago where very little would drop in general. I guess they warned us when they made a league where you can almost passively get stuff from the mechanic.
poe not having group play anymore is a huge window for blizzard to thrive...but they are dumb AF and will take advantage from this
I did trade here and there when playing MMO but I did it as a Mechanic of the game not a whole job.
I can see the appeal but that's not the way I focus when "Playing" something.
The fact that all the hard work here is not about Experiencing the Moment, but boiled down into Profits alone sadden me, I don't know why.
It's their way of playing a game but I for one can't got in their boat, even a speed run grind, I also can't do that.
My joy of playing a game is experiencing the moment, enjoy what the game has to offer not to made a bank.
This is a part where I don't like PoE, the game focus waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on making currency per minute. so I usually disconnect myself to these kind of "Efficiency farming" strat content.
I still trade when I got big drop but I see that as a Bonus on my playtime, it does increase the joy but not as a whole.
When playing game is tie to making Profits, I don't know I can call that as playing a game.
I would still want to play with my friend tho but not for drop multiplier you know.
I think group play is not very interesting to watch is, because there is so much happening on screen and you have no idea what anything of it is. And with these loot explosions that are 99% shit you don't even get excited about that.
having no idea what anything is, is just a lack of experience, if you play the game abit more and learn it all makes sense.
Unless im friends with the person i dont group with anyone since it gives nothing. Ill carry for currency but other than that group play is stupid since it turns into dog walking, one leads the others follow just boring
Overall it seems like loot is bad this league, they nerfed ground loot because they added back wisps and sentinels, but since sentinels and wisps add almost no loot, youre on a net negative in terms of loot, league is kinda fun, but im fucking poor this league
Finally they killed it. A few years late, but vetter lare than never
Cope harder, there is still party mf strategy rn, and they get way more than any other solo strategy because its not known for masses
If you disband your group because it’s not profitable enough then the group shouldn’t have existed.
Sorry we have friends.....
@@spidahnw So you no longer have friends as they abandoned you the moment there was no substantial financial gain to be made in group play? 🤔
Right. If group play is strictly worse loot than solo i should just live with that! brain damaged take
Yeah, that's fine by me
I think a very video idea is how you get on your feet now, from behind, what you farm now, I think this will help a lot of people.
The performance of the game is worse and worse every league, a lot of crashes and other technical problems.
For me the biggest down side of the game is the xp lost on death, is so damn annoying and they killed 5 way too and they killed last league xp farm too 😢.
Oh man, that is actually unbelievably bad. You guys could have made more all doing alch and go separately.
I feel like they nerfed actual currency drop this league to compensate for shipping currency, but it will go back up next league
No. They removed quantity on a lot of gears
@kelex1298 I never used mf gear so if it were only that, it would be no different for me and it is.
@@justjay3750 are you comparing it to last league, or the league before that? Affliction had Wildwood which gave a lot of quantity buffs, and Necropolis with the Lantern also gave quantity buffs to mobs assigned certain Necro mods. We got none of that this league.
There's also RNG factor, so if you're comparing it to your luckiest league, well then you shouldn't. Average out all your luck in every league then compare it to this league.
@@kelex1298 They also removed some base line monster quant. nerfed scarabs & chisels drops & nerfed scarabs themselves. there are no end game strats rn
@@Gweriaa It's not in the patch notes. They changed the multiplicative effects of quantity, which doesn't impact the lower-end players and impacts only the absolute top-end. Scarabs nerfed yes, because there were insane edge cases last league, and T17 exacerbated the issue, but outside of those, drops for them are normal. Again, remember that T17 had extreme modifiers and Necropolis buffed quantity for everything, which impacted loot drop massively. For especially scarabs, you would really feel this because the only League you can pull comparison to is Necropolis.
I know this won't be popular answer but I'm OK with it. Maybe PoE can get on with balance changes that are good for the 99% of folks that arnt grouping then and dial things in closer? Just a thought.
I know you will still find a way to make awesome content and I'm sorry if you guys are bummed out that group play feels dead
Sad that it didnt work out for you dude
I feel sorry for you, mate. It was strange not having any vids from you aspecialy on a league start, at least now we know why :\
hot take: unless you're running a rmt scheme, play the game the way thats fun not the way thats most 'efficient'. like if a friend told me he wouldn't play poe with me anymore because its not "profit efficient" id question why im friends with the loser in the first place. Thats bungie exec ass behavior.
Sanest take of this entire comments section actually.
While I do feel the loot this league in general is shit due to all the changes - I wouldn't ditch the friend I'm playing with just because "it's more efficient". In two-person party group i'ts not even that big of a difference. The point of playing together should be first and foremost having fun and to help each other out. You need better friends I guess. Feel free to join us if you need someone to play with btw. :)
I really cant imagine what the reason is that people dont understand how doing something well can't be fun
Have u considered that some people may have fun in being efficient?
@@keldon1137 to the point where you're throwing your friends under the bus?
Kinda sad, i loved watching the high end group juicing simply because how ridiculous it usually is. I made 80 div in the last 2 days in sanctum solo so yeah... solo speed farming has always been more profitable than group juicing but this is pretty sad.
I am about to level a sanctum runner because juiced map loot is really bad and I don’t want to farm Essence or harvest juice for 15 hours a day.
Damn, 14h a day? :o With that regime one could play through baldurs gate 3 in a week :D
Solo play ain't worth a fuck either. Like they must just want us playng everyday for four months. Nobody got time for that. They really need to buff the big currency drops just a tad, doing twenty fucking maps and getting 0 divines, and shit gear when the maps are pretty decent feels bad. Also, everyone I send like 250000 worth shipment, and some random ass shit happens, it got stolen, wtf??? Like I don't even wanna play tomorrow honestly.
Hey, you're angry and that's fine, but you're honestly delusional if you think you need to play all day everyday to achieve anything in PoE.
First thing I got from your comment : you seem to be the kind of inexperienced player who's waiting for divines to drop. That's NOT how the game works. You have to sell valuable goods (gear, currencies) for chaos and concert to divines, you ain't getting much raw drops especialy during progression.
As for solo being unprofitable : I played about 50hours this league so far (yes you might think that's a lot), and made about 300 divines. From which only 2 were a raw drop (what you seem to be expecting every other map). I'm experienced, I have a clear plan in mind when playing (for example, fishing for fractured / synth bases in ritual) and I do that efficiently.
If you're having a bad time that's probably because you're inefficient. And that's ok! But you shouldn't blame your lack of experience / efficiency / whatever it is on the game. With all the noob oriented ressources out there that exist to help you enjoy this complex game, there's no reason for you to not find success IF YOU'RE WILLING TO LEARN. Or you can keep crying about how unfair the game is to you, but that won't magicaly solve your situation.
Oh and btw, I make that kind of money every league farming what I enjoy, which is often the worst content in the game div/hour wise (metamorph, delve, ritual etc...). So there's rly no excuse, whatever you enjoy doing in the game, there's a way for you to thrive of of doing it.
Thanks for showing us what not to do for a change! lol