Ukraine: A proxy war? • FRANCE 24 English
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- As violence intensifies on the ground in Ukraine, the diplomatic tension has also ratcheted up a notch. As Russia accuses NATO of waging a proxy war, the UN chief Antonio Guterres is in Moscow, asking for cooperation over humanitarian access to places like Mariupol. Sergei Lavrov says Moscow is "ready to cooperate" with the UN to help civilians, but only a day earlier, he warned that World War III was a real danger.
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Ukraine: a proxy war? YES
It’s such a one sided debate that it boils down to pure propaganda. What a shame.
yes, thinking the same thing
A lot of people are throwing that word around these days.
@@elephant1851 Yes because it’s always been this way now are just waking up to it
I'm expecting everyone to be against the US once the Solomon Islands thingie hits the fan, but they will probably just cheer on them doing military operations to block China.
Nothing much here. Just little boys and little girls talking. Children operating and running the world these days. Though some may have a senior physical outlook, but no doubt just children in an aged body.
John Mearsheimer is still spot on. How do you have a debate when all are in agreement? How can any critical mind that would argue it is not a proxy war?
Mearsheimer has been a Putin mouthpiece for a while, repeating that same schlock Putin has been spitting about how everyone forced Russia to do this.
@North Korea Is Best Korea are you asking for real or is your mind already made up?
Exactly. This isn’t a debate. It’s a echo chamber. And a poorly informed one too.
That is the west for you 🙄😂🤣🤦🏽♂️
@North Korea Is Best Korea it does not make sense because you listen programs like this, listen to your Politicians and MSM
What at a one sided debate with everyone including the reporter on one side. Why do you even call this a debate!?
Yes, it's nothing but an anti-Rissian confab
Thanks. You just saved me an hour. ;)
Exactly this is how the west folks are brainwashed.. 🤭
@@xxr0ni4xx I suppose you type with one finger. I can tell from your assessment that you are a little “challenged”.
Haha 😂 if that’s what you call a debate it’s more like a boardroom meeting.
Why is this called “The Debate” when every guest is in lockstep with Western imperialism? 🤔
The answer Is simple..
Cause they are WELL Paid and brainwashed by the American propaganda
And what is your IQ?
How is self defense "Western Imperialism"? Please explain.
@DolphinsWIthIgloos self defense is a human right, not imperialism. A concept so simple, even these anti-Western bigots should be able to understand.
They're like, let's bring an expert that only agrees with our prerogative 🤣🤣🤣
It's not a Proxy War, it's a "Special Operations Collective Defence"
Yes
collective looting for propose to move money from eu zone to usa and impoverish enemy , ty eu citizens to pay this coming crisis and support dollar
Your, miss,go,to,shop,special, operation
Cringe n recycle comment
It’s a way to donate more money for relief supplies in the form of guns and bombs. Gotta keep that last American manufacturing plant going.
So-called "experts" on Russia... again
Need to have panels of experts from both sides of the isle for a useful discussion. The current panel is one sided!
I didn’t think anyone was debating this being a ‘proxy war’
The world's getting dumber for sure
@@billy6pack887 sadly - seemingly true
@@billy6pack887 Nope it's only you.
@@O-.-O Next we'll be debating if Biden's IQ is increasing. You'll undoubtedly be in the yes camp😂
@@O-.-O The goons of this world never cease to amaze. It must be great to be such a tool parrot...the bliss you feel I can only imagine.
Why is there this need to expand NATO at all costs?To what end?All these analyists are so one dimensional.Russia is not Iraq.That you can amass troops and weapons infront of their front door and hope that nothing happens! Very strange kind of thinking!
NATO countries want peace, to trade, to grow our families, travel, make friends. NATO countries have differences. Canada and the US are always in some trade dispute. We still visit, party, celebrate each others holidays. No visas to travel.
We respect each others laws.
We sell a lot of stuff to each other. Our supply chains are integrated.
We enjoy a high standard of living.
Most NATO countries enjoy national healthcare, and strong social safety nets.
So, why are there no words of Lavrov himself from the translations, why is all nonsense said, except for the original soundtrack?
Well, what is wrong with Russia, NATO is fighting with the hands of Ukrainians, with weapons from a bunch of countries. You lead Ukrainians to slaughter, and then the President of Estonia offers to take grain from Ukraine's storages in case of famine in Europe. Seriously? And what Ukrainians don't need to eat? Only the lives of Europeans are important, and Ukrainians are low-grade people for you, whom you easily throw away.
Европа готова плясать под любую дудку США лишь бы не налаживать отношения с Россией. Но Украина теперь инструмент на который все плевали .. а вот интересно, зачем столько оружия свозят в Украину?? Помочь? Не думаю.... Что то будет дальше.
@@ellybelly_4 Потому что Польша облизывается с самого начала на Украинские земли. Украину растянут, не спросив самих украинцев.
I don't understand Russia's objection to NATO expanding to their borders. If Russia were to expand to Mexico and Canada, the US would not be concerned.
haha love your sarcasm!
Remember the Cuba crisis !!!
😂
The US is nato
@@btiger9495 Which resulted in USA not ever invading Cuba and the missiles in Turkey removed.
How come the US could have a "red line" at the Solomon Islands and is very concerned because of the agreement with China? Is only the States allowed to have red lines? Where the hell are the Solomon Islands, and where is Ukraine in relation to Russia???? THINK people, THINK!!!
One difference is that the US is not attaching the Solomons
@@ragnarberglund820 Well, they are, in their usual covert CIA way. The riot that tried to install the opposition leader had American fingerprints all over it. And only a couple of weeks ago they managed to get rid of the enormously popular Imran Khan in Pakistan and install the much more amenable opposition leader as president.
@@ragnarberglund820 That's right, it never attacked anywhere.
@@ragnarberglund820 It threatened to start WW3 over Cuba, so it's most certainly inclined to attack sovereign countries it sees as in any way threatening it's security.
You are asking Americans to think? We have to be the dumbest and most indoctrinated population on earth. We believe anything that the media tells us.
Zelenski got to leave precidency of ukraine .
Pure comedy, thank you for the entertainment...🤣
These guys are clowns ....
😆🤣👍🏿😆🤣😆👍🏿
Never start a war you can't win
He still harps on with intimidation of nuclear threats as if Russia is the only country that has nuclear weapons ??? Does he think that having nuclear weapons is a means to take and do whatever they like without resistance, retaliation or opposition ???
It sounds more like a needed reminder than a threat. Ww3 will be mutually assured destruction, no one except NATO wants.
Yes he does.He is not sane.
No but that resistance, retaliation and opposition will be limited. Nuclear powers don't get invaded. A la North Korea.
Only when the US has a weak president does he do such a thing.
@@LC-go1uh USA is no Long police man in the world
I love all those so called debates about russia where both sides just keep repeating the same thing
😂😂😂👍 it's TRUE, so silly
Desperate and pathetic, Eudopeans are making clowns of themselves and losing any remainig credability they have on World Stage.
United States are no different than any Country ran bye Dictators and full of lies and deceit!
What kind of a debate is this program? if everyone thinks the same way, has the same opinion.. it does not
sound like a debate... sounds more like propaganda
Putin has dug a huge grave for this troops and military equipment in Ukraine. The longer his troops remain in Ukraine, the bigger and deeper the grave is dug for them.
It is not a proxy war because Ukraine has a constitutionally elected goverment. Deal with that. Simple war of russian aggresion. Deal also with that.
Proxy war, when one side sends military support to a Middle country to fight its enemy. Example, Afghanistan v Soviet Union, and Vietnam v USA.
naive!
According to Biden, this is a US war. He said the goal is regine change in Russia + to weaken Russia economically and politically. According to many US experts , this war is constructed by US.
It IS a proxy war
I could not agree more. Biden was very clear before they invaded that NATO was willing to talk bout Russia’s issues, but would be less willing to negotiate if an attack happened. If Russia wants to saber rattle, go ahead. Negotiation only works when someone isn’t holding a gun to your head. Why should Zalinsky give up anything? He has already lost 10s of thousands of people. Ukrainians are unwilling to give in, and they should not. We will supply them as long as they need it.
a one sided debate how enlightning.
Is it a debate when all parties are representing the same side?
War? What war? At best this is a proxy special operation. Typical bully behaviour: once there is some resictance the bully starts crying.
In America we call them crybullies
US has killed over 20 Million Civilians world wide since end of WW2 ! That's what I call a Bully !
@@robinpage2730 Being the most militaristic society on the planet 🌎 you should know something about that!
@@4411825The most militaristic society on the planet would be North Korea.
@@4411825 Cannot really discern what are you trying to say ...
Although it was probably dead already, another casualty of this war has been journalistic integrity..
I think France should stay away from from everything.
Where have you seen that? Please elaborate, as without any evidence your notion is less than impressive.
Russia stop war than no need for weapons
"The flow of arms into Ukraine has enraged Russia" Golly gee Mr. Putin what did you expect?
MR. Putin could hit Zelensky first.
America and NATO his Sadam in Iraq and Gaddafi in Libya first. Russia could've done the same
THE LEADERS ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING BY COMING TOGETHER TO STOP RUSSIANS FROM KILLING THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE FOR NOTHING....
Ну мы и не ждали ничего хорошего,. У всего есть последствия. Кормите там беженцев молча и плодите новых беженцев, давая им оружие.
Golly Gee why don’t you freedom loving Europeans send these same weapons to Palestinians or Yemenis? You dam racist hypocrites!
He expects NATO to f off his border.
Us secretary Austin is talking about moving heaven and earth 🌎🌍 for Ukraine, while Lavrov wants to move NATO off Russian borderlands countries enclaves backyard madness
Lol, too little TOO LATE!!! They should have moved heaven & earth before this even started 😐😐😐
LAVROV if you don't want the west to arm Ukraine just withdraw army immediately and make peace with Ukraine with a security guarantee. But stop your rethoric and bluff using your Nuclear capabilities.
The West has been arming Ukraine since 2014.
Just think... None of this would be happening if Russia would have stayed within its borders.
None of this would be happening if not for one man’s big narcissistic ego!
Where was this energy from the world in iraq and afghan???? Just because ukrainians are white Christians everybody's crying in their beer
tuned in in the season 10 of the series without watching previous 9, you have no idea what is going on and why
The USA should have all stayed in their own borders since 2014 maidan coup
@@theonly6359 well, as imperialistic as the US may be, being invited to come & participate is not comparable to invading.
Ukraine becomes America's bumper LOL
Better than being Russia's slave.
Foolish statement of course!
So Ukraine is winning?! Well we will see, but it sounds to me that you guys are talking your wishes
something is wrong in media. Either everyone agrees on A and other shows everyone agrees with B. Can we please return to proper debates where the viewers make their own mind after hearing arguments from both side instead of the channel telling us what is right?
I am glad more and more people are noticing this. Thank you, it is kind of difficult at this point to not see it. Why do you think this is happening? who or what is behind this in almost all western countries.
@@ELUSsSIVE, Internet algorithms cause more of the same point of view.
C(ontext) also exist. 🖼
That's a personal choice to listen to what you want and decide. No one is making that decision for you. Don't read comments then post silliness.
YES THEY ARE DEBATING AMONG THEMSELVES (WHO IS THE BEST LIAR ).
It's not a proxy war by definition because Russia isn't fighting by proxy, it's fighting directly.
As for countries providing Ukraine assistance call it what you will, but Ukraine has a right to defend itself. Russia is the one pushing the proxy war angle as they want you to think negatively of the aid. Don't let them fool you.
Dhar Mann subscriber amount disagrees with your comment
@@Edzhjus was that english?
Do you have a constructive argument?
What do you disagree with?
Have you looked up the definition?
Yes I agree with what you say.
Eh from Canada somehow Russia doesn't remember supplying weapons to the rebels in Ukraine for the past 20 yrs
Because they haven't! All rebbel weapons comes from defectors from the Ukrainian army..
Right!
They started the proxy war in 2014. The Ukrainians are going to finish them. Whenever they lose they whine about NATO this and NATO that. NATO is like a herd of cats. Give me a break you have little to fear from a herd of cats unless you go in and attack them, only then will cats respond in a coordinated way. So no RuSSia has little to fear from NATO. Now China? Well they should be very concerned with 1.4 billion people in need of lebensraum.
@@araztheman Eh did you here that on RT Russia sent missiles at hospitals 10 yrs ago. It would be hard to defect with one of those under your coat
When Maidan Coup d'etat took place 2014
Right Sector etal did not take into account the Voting rights of
indigenous Ukrainian Russians living in Donbas and then with Azov began to ethnically cleanse these Civilians of which they murdered several thousand women children and old people what of them ? It is well documented !
Ukraine entered the USSR without the Donbass and left with it. No one asked the people if they wanted to be Ukrainian. The Nationalists regard the Russian population there as sub human "orcs" and have been attacking them since 2014. Is it any wonder they want to leave? The same applies to Crimea, which was given to Ukraine in 1953 without any consultation with the people.
Did anyone ask Poland, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, East Germany, and Czechoslovakia when they were locked behind the Iron Curtain and absorbed in to the USSR?
amazing . a non-debate. basically “more war, more war” and “more war”.
No more RF special military operation to de nazify RF.
Why doesn't France 24 English interview John Mearsheimer , Chris Hedges , Noam Chomsky , Andrew Bacevich , Scott Ritter , Jeffrey Sachs , and Benjamin Norton on the issue of Nato ‐ Russia ‐ Ukraine crisis ?
Scott Ritter is a sex offender so I'm not sure that's a great recommendation...
Why do you want to destroy the entertainment of an echo chamber?
Amen
@@tomcurran3424 Wordsworth : Sighs will ever trouble human breath .
And Patrick Lancaster and the Duran and Gonzalo Lira?
Thanks France 24 for the „debate“ where all the guests have the same opinion 😂. I had hoped to watch to a real lively debate and was disappointed. What the heck is this? You call this a debate? Give me a break!
Russia thinks too highly of himself.
Russia thinks they could even take on NATOs pinky finger.
He needs to decide if his special military operation ends with him having a military !
@@Stonedgod710 there's a difference between total war and limited intervention. Ask yourself what the end goals of Russia could be.
@@mehmeh1999 So far it looks like their goal is to encourage other countries to join nato, while diminishing their own military prestige.
@@jessefisher1809 they don't care about Finland and sweden, they only care about former soviet countries.
The US didn't nuke the USSR when they armed the Viet Kong.
They nuke Japan instead🤔
True!
Japan Got Nuked by the Mighty American Military Weapons Industrial Complex !
@@andrewmah5605 From someone in Asia which part of Japan occupation, the Japan in '45 trully deserved to be nuked. twice.
no.. but if the USSR had armed groups in canada or mexico you would have threatened them with nukes.. remember the cuban missile crisis?
Who could resist a proxy war when Russia is looking so weak?
As mentioned UN I see USA made UN as circus 😂😂🤣🤣🧐🧐😝
doesnt the IMF indeed "dictate policy" to its debtors?
If you are heavy in debt you are not really free.
Yes. If you are in debt and want help, you need to agree to the terms. Elementary.
Yes
YES !!! THEY WILL BE REWARDED WITH MORE CASH.!!!!
These France24 discussions with guests who agree in EVERYTHING are useless🤦🏿♂️
yeah they talk to themselves, I don’t think ppl believe in anything they say , just lies and propaganda, they have this fantasy that Ukraine’s winning
u have proiblems of transfer. guest who agree in everything appear JUST on russian tv
It is. Where is the debate?
If you don't like the material on France24, then why are you watching it lol.
@@dianabryner5081 no free speach possible?
Debate by deffinition is a discussion between people in which they express DIFFERENT opinions about something.
Funny because it's ru who armed up there serpratists in the first place!
Nato expansion to east? Including ex Soviet?
Cuba and Venezuela also have rit to place nukes
What?
@Herman Lutzer peace dictated by who? Strong do what they do.weak suffer.U.S is stron .that's y it invades others nations.Russia is strong.Thats y it wants ukr.In b/w weak talk peace , democracy ,human rights.
This is not debate if am listening to one side. Sometimes bring opposing views.
As much a proxy war as Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan were proxy wars, when Russia provided weapons and training to America’s battlefield enemies.
Yup yup that simple
And how the amerika do in those wars🤣
So Korea was a stalemate, but a win for the South. Vietnam was a loss for the US, but now we are allies and trading partners. Not sure what you mean about Afghanistan. 1980 or last year? I'm not seeing a general point about proxy wars.
not really, ukraine is at russia's borders and the fight can reach russian territory, that makes escalations far more dangerous...
and russia didn't provide weapons to afghanistan, those were leftovers of what the us provided.to afghanistan to fight russia.
@@halaszgyorgy1253
Write something useful. Or troll away.
Nato should say they can make moscow a big hole in the ground
Moscow is a gorgeous city... remove (if you know what I mean) just the hominids. Leave the city standing!
Ahh. They are the one who invaded so no tears for the crocodile. When the crocodile gets owned no one has sympathy.
He needs to decide if his special military operation ends with him having a military !
He won't need a military on the ground when he launches nukes, nobody will !!
😂the big boys are coming now putin beware
Manufacturing of destructive weapons of war is the main problem!!!! Manufacturers are profiting from destruction of humanity!
I am so glad, that Russia never fights proxy wars.
That's all they do.
@@Mr03gorm hold on, don't present it with real facts it won't know what to do!
@@Mr03gorm Pretty sure it was sarcasm
@@JCJW101
I took it as sarcasm.
@@LiberalinOregon keld didn't though
I just wish we would have helped the Ukrainians like this in the first place. Many people died in order for us to really help.
Nope this was played the way it needed to be...
Description of diplomacy! 2015 last time G7-France & Germany helped with negotiations between Ukraine and Russia.
Secretary of State John Kerry ignored the 2014 invasion in Donbas.
@@AstroGremlinAmerican Kerry as head of climate team 😄 🤣
He's there because step-daddy to Christopher Heinz [Heinz Corp] and former partner to Hunter Biden. When decided from partnership as financial advisors. Heinz severed that partnership fairly quickly, (HB not reputable?)
A general mobilization by Russia would likely create more internal problems for them than not. People are fleeing from Russia already.
I don't think so once NATO joins in that's the time the Russian people will take up arms.🤣
@@giacomogiacomo1194 and then? You're a joke.
Not true.
Easy solution to the proxy war: get out of Ukraine. No more proxy war.
Abolish NATO an there is no proxy war either.
Yeah, NATO should get out of there quick. And nazi ideology should be made illegal. That would end the war, literally.
For both sides. Nato as well.
@@realnapster1522 clown 🤡
@@realnapster1522 Absolutely
It was Trump who criticised Germany of its reliance on Russian energy.
100% correct. And we have it recorded in colour :)
Worthless on one sided hate fest . Real journalism is definitely dead on France 24
This is not much of a Debate. I am actually quite disappointed. If you are not interested in debating don't call it a Debate rather an echo chamber.
Proxy war : you bet.
General Keane said, "We have the opportunity to crush Russia"
Lloyd Austin (Sec of State) "We must degrade Russia to prevent it invading again"
Folks are queuing up to put the boot in to Russia.
Actually, secretary of defence Austin. Boyah!
Good! Defang the aggressor!
In fairness ..Russia could address it by simply getting the fk out of Ukraine.
I think collective this military support from NATO will backfire and cost millions of lives across Europe and the US. They must know this is likely.
@@Senaleb it’s their backyard. Just like Mexico is US backyard.
What’s the evidence of cremation and crematoriums?
Something tells me that putzky and lavrov are not ready to be vaporized. They sound tough, but do not carry a big enough stick.
Dont miscalculate again...
Lavrov knows the second nuke will be his and Putin’s demise.
Good bye Kremlin, goodbye Russia.
Best he stop threatening.
@@toetz4491 Again?
@@clancywiggam - they don’t care and neither do you.
Sometimes
ignorance is Bliss
especially when you're President of USA !
What I do not understand does America have boots on the ground and just how much is the American people paying for military equipment
4 billions and counting. Much of this money will be laundered and will go to offshore accounts.
funny debate. or maybe someone would invite the other side to the discussion? who are these people representing Russia or other organizations? how long will this propaganda last?
If only it wasn't lies lies and launching missiles while they talk.
@@bg1616 what kind of missiles? are you talking about that tochka u rocket that Ukraine launched at the Kramatorsk train station? something has gone quiet all over the news. or maybe you're talking about the report of experts from Bucha, where civilians died from shelling by Ukrainian artillery when the Russian military was still in the city? even the Guardian shyly wrote what killed people, but blamed Russia for it. there are many confirmations since 2014 that Ukraine fires such types of ammunition. only how could Russia shoot by itself if it was in the city at that time?
The other side was presented first: Lavrov's speech, a direct source for Russia's position. Pay attention if you want to understand any discussion.
Ukraine agreed to give its nuclear weapons to Russia. In exchange, Russia was to provide protection to Ukraine as a sovereign country. Russia broke its agreement. The USA did not break any agreement, it’s Russia at fault here.
Always like USA before but now I feel just sadness...they dont have anybody that can verbally articulate anything else then weapons and sanctions.
America is captured by international finance and the ruthless NeoCons.
To justify an 770 billion ANNUAL military budget and literally 600 military bases around the world they ALWAYS need an enemy. If they can present him in the media as a MADMAN then all the better. If they have no manufactured enemies then the US population might look around and say "hey wait, are we a globe-bestriding imperialist military empire?"
How it can be a question?
Well done and a huge Thank You to all the 40 countries that are coming together and standing together united to really help Ukraine to drive out Russian forces and to weaken Russia in all aspect for the common good for the whole world over. Putin must be made truly small and stop bullying other countries in Europe.
USA
has killed over 20 Million Civilians world wide since end of WW2
I call that Bullying !!
He also mentioned Afghanistan money or The Russian Federation helped Destroyed the Western Stealth Support for the the Daesh, ISIS, Caliphate Genocides of Kurds and Azides in Syria !
You do not have a clue
@@sveng3192 he has more of a clue than you do, apparently.
😂
You can't invade a sovereign nation and not expect them to defend themselves or receive arms to do so.
They just can’t take the fact that the Ukraine armed forces are giving them a good kicking!
Is that why they are begging and losing territory daily?
Stop believing these warmongers who are giving the Ukrainians false hope so they can fight Russia to the last Ukrainian..
They are being decimated in the thousands and that is why they are constantly begging for help!
@@4411825 yep your absolutely right and there on there own! Even china is turning its back!
More wishful thinking.
All that was heard in the Ukrainian side is civilians killed. How about their military, why no any casualty ever reported? Are they superheroes?
It's been reported...listen!
They don't talk about that because it's demoralizing.
War by proxy! ...complains the country that invaded a non NATO country allegedly because of NATO
Iraq, Afgh, Libya....says hi
@@manojkumar-jt3fw as long as its hi 👋 and not chemical weapons, terrorist planes, and passenger jet bombs and bullets 😀
@@manojkumar-jt3fw I didn't hear about something like 9/11 happen to Russia.
@Herman Lutzer so we talk here. Russia occupied almost ukr coast. It wil cut ukr from sea access.it will fire a nuke and eliminate Kyiv. U can go and arm ukr as much as u want. This is present . Since u can't accept this reality of major Russian gains, u r calling zelensky as hero and believing ukr is winning the war.
@@bg1616 If wat u.s did is rit for Nato, wat Russia does is rit for itself. There wil only b a 1 winner.its Russia on a pile of bodies
You mean the US is sent $5 billion as a donation which does not have to be paid back what a great gesture
This discussion has the atmosphere of a funeral ... Very depressed and defeated. .. Obviously NATO and Ukraine are not doing well against Russia.
Tell Russia you invaded a peaceful country you had no rights to do so
Peaceful? They were shelling their own people in Donbas. Have you not been paying attention?
NATO did not instigate this war, therefore it isn't a proxy war.
Excellent point. They dug their own grave and now blame others.
Indeed, and you will need two sides to fight by proxy. Here there is only one side suppling aid and another physically fighting.
Real question is Are they sending military aid for free or will Ukraine have to pay that aid back ? Anyway US military complex needs war so they can continue making money for there shareholers ! There is nothing nobile in this ...
Since Putin loves threatening Canadian Arctic sovereignty, I have no problem with a proxy war. In fact I find myself often checking out Ukraine air fair options.
Please go and send us your report once you figure out the truth.
“It comes from one side” - if your a blind and suffer from dementia. Can’t report on “the rest of the story - that’s not good journalism.
@@nomorewar4189 I’m far from an expert but I’d say follow the money ? The truth would be hidden amongst a huge gas reserve? And maybe china as the puppet master attacking the petrodollar?
Stay at home bro they have enough fighters for now!👍
Amen Brother!
I grew up in 50s and 60s USA. Debate or not, never has the threat of nuclear war been so great. Especially since no one seems to be interested in peace. That leaves only one direction it can go.
Zelensky admitted his country was fighting a proxy war when he said to send him weapons for Ukraine to "sacrifice themselves for Europe" and the very fact Zelensky addressed every EU and NATO country's parliaments. If it weren't a proxy war they would never have given him such a platform to address every EU government.
yep
what an utter disaster for putin. moscow should be ready to become a chinese vassal state for energy and farmland. and also expect the russian federal to come apart at the fringes.
and ukraine would be its permanent worst possible enemy to be funded and armed by the west for the forseeable future. along with 2 new nato countries at its borders.
So many distraction techniques continue. Not even sure he believes himself anymore.
European Union rejected Ukraine membership
Nato rejected Ukraine membership
Nato is not doing a no fly zone.
Everyone is just sending weapons but no one is sending Ukraine any soldiers.
Everyone is just talking, Ukraine is actually on its own
Why was membership refused for so long?
Putin: The west is waging a war by proxy!
West: Oh, so it's a war now?
Putin: The west is waging a special military operation by proxy!
No debate needed we all know the answer . Yes
That's what
🐑 Sheeples Do !!
Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine's allies are coming to their support. It's not any more complicated than that.
Please enough of simple decisions for complicated problems.
@@darvinist87 HUNTER BIDEN approve this message lol
@@darvinist87 it's not complicated at all though.
Cmon France, catch up
its not a proxy war! thats just what theyre saying to confuse and hypnotize us. its not someone elses fault that a bully assaults someone. its the bullies fault!
You're a moronic child. This is a conflict between states, not a playground.
I like his confidence but Mariupol is lost. Any forces there have been effectively cut off all attempts to save them have for the most part failed. Nothing in or out. Mariupol is effectively lost sir.
marioupol est le fief d'azov
It should be obvious to all that putzky is loosing his health. His head is ballooning out of shape.
A proxy war? Nah, a poxy war for Russia.
Lavrov looks tired of war even as he issues threats but fears to advise Putin who would most likely not just sack him but threaten his life.
He wants to stay on power is all it is, like Goebbels, Himmler and the Speer and the rest did. Do what boss says, stay in the sphere of power.
It is actually easy to see one way this ends quickly.....I know he has a close circle , but the reason that 4 oligarch's and families have been killed since this started is because Putin is losing and less secure as things get worse....At 70 he might be willing to get Russia nuked , but I bet many around him will not be willing to take that chance...NATO is not going anywhere now, so Putin can either accept he got it wrong , or end up being taken out by his own people !
Do you think he might fall of a balcony or get poisoned accidentally : )
Maybe he’s tired of lying for pootin.
@@bern047
Tea time for Lavrov.
Why is this show called ‘THE DEBATE’ ??
Glory to Ukraine
Not one counter argument i guess thats democracy.
Amazes me that the Russians did not anticipate western weapons being delivered from the west of Ukraine. Did they think Ukraine would just not do this.
particularly considering the west has been arming ukraine since russia's initial invasion in 2014
It was supposed to be over too quickly for arms to make a difference.
Are all countries but the US broke, or just cheap? Step up people. Less talk, pay up.
They're not broke, but make no mistake - The US is the economic powerhouse of NATO.
No! They just need to get their oil and gas from somewhere other than Russia. They should have figured that out a long time ago!