amazing lesson. thank you so much. when i watch Jim Keltner or Vinnie playing, i notice no tension in their writs . i know they are other techniques including gladstone or moeller for the whip in their or the free stroke. But i notice they do pick it up and they release all tension from the wrist. all of it. this technique as far as i can tell releases all tension from the wrist which i take to mean results in very little shock into the hand on impact which can give dynamic control and longetivity for the drumset application.. these guys last a long time and no injury from stress repetitive motions. This technique youve shown addresses that tension in the wrist and seeks to remove it. so crucial. your hands are amazing. thanks again. i am trying these exercises you shown.and focusing on them. thanks again.
Hi Scott, Excellent video! I studied for a while with Arnie Lang and he then sent me to Buster. He was also a great teacher. It’s funny, that he would tell me how he really wanted to be a circus drummer. He had antique circus posters in his house. I had all these hand written exercises he would write out for me , this was before he put out his book which I have. I’m glad you’re showing this with matched grip since that’s what I use.
Okay-the demand for a followup video is close to critical mass, LOL. which means I'm closer to actually doing it! As a preview, here are some of the things I'm considering for a next video (or series of videos): the "right" way to play flams-which is playing them like what they are: grace notes (including more throw-drop exercises incorporating flams); multiple bounce rolls (as opposed to "crush" or "buzz" rolls); and a concept that Buster Bailey really emphasized, which he characterized as "feeling the weight go from side to side," or in other words, always practicing a relaxed back and forth from right to left (in terms of sticking)-with the goal of making your weaker hand as relaxed and capable as your stronger hand.
You ar so wanted. Thank god, I really started to worry if you where o.k. You ar the only one able to show this technique properly as far as I know. I assume it is the technique that comes closest to drummers like Tony Williams for example. only he holds he's sticks at the back. (th-cam.com/video/uFCJs_WvsG4/w-d-xo.html ). The wrist seems to be key. It's very important for me to be able to play along and watch you playing, while practicing this technique. So I watch't this video every time when I practice or warm up. Rick Dior his you tube Channel is my favorite: th-cam.com/video/gIhRm5KdXr4/w-d-xo.html I believe he also study't with C Elden Bailey. I recently send him a request to check your video and maybe explain more. But Scott is back so i'l be waiting for that notification bell to ring. That would be, Well..you know.... th-cam.com/video/gIhRm5KdXr4/w-d-xo.html Thanks Scott. This one video was crucial to help my study.
Hallo, your first video was greatly helpful and I'd love to see a following one. The information you gave is so precious - and almost impossible to find so clearly explained!
Hey Scott. Sounds cool! Now would be a great time with all the staying indoors and whatnot. That last concept (shifting weight) sounds amazing. I would love to see, hear, and learn about that!!!! I feel like my diminuendos are 10x better after practicing the ideas from this video of yours over the years (as well my wrists being more relaxed). So I'm also curious about Buster's approach to the crescendos in Wrist Twisters, with one hand especially, like his RRRL & LLLR exercises towards the beginning of the book. Hope all is well with you!
I can’t stop coming back to this video of yours, Scott. I hope you’re staying well, and I’m really looking forward to seeing Part II, when it’s ready. Inexplicably, I’m intrigued and mesmerized by Mr Bailey’s snare drumming more than just about anything else I’ve ever heard in music, and anything you can offer in explaining and demystifying his approach will be greatly appreciated. All the best, Dave in Sydney.
Man, forget a follow up video - you need to make a whole library! This is pure gold man! You can't deprive the world of this information!!! Get to it!!!!!!
Great! This needs to be seen. The only way to overcome technical difficulties is through a totally relaxed approach as you have pointed out . I tell my students it's like throwing a baseball...you wind up and release the ball. There's no tension in the arm, wrist or fingers. You use just enough force to get the ball to it's target...no more than is necessary. By practicing the "throw and Drop" the student will develop a sensitivity in the hands to the bounce of the stick off the drum or pad. I still spend an hour every day on what Buster's students affectionately called "Wrist Twisters." I studied with Buster some twenty six years ago while I was in The Marine Band in Washington DC. He was an amazing snare drummer (also tambourine and accessory instruments) This technique has helped me as an orchestral player and as a set player. It will enable one to play the snare drum or drum set more musically, more confidently and masterfully. Thanks for your video Scott.
Hi All: I really have been intending to make a 2nd video on Buster Bailey's technique, but life has kept me ridiculously busy between work and family. But I do plan to make another one, so stay tuned! (And thanks for watching!)
Scott Wilkinson Scott: (I'm on my wife's computer!). I'm very impressed with the Bailey concepts. I plan to order Wrist Twisters as soon as the budget can afford it. Love the vid, look forward to number 2. Bill Stieger (pro drummer for 45 years). Email: delablobbo@gmail.com
+Scott Wilkinson 16 years now playing and I plan to tear my hands down and rebuild so here's to hoping for video #2. You explained this stuff extremely well, any drummer that stumbles upon this appreciates your time. Cheers, Scott!
Hi! Thank You so much for this video! Looking forward to see 2nd., but actually this 1st. is pretty ”enough”. Its like a new world actually. My son is studying percussion. He plays some Bigband gig in TH-cam as well. Mitja Koskiluoma
Just posting up again-thanks to all who've enjoyed this video and gotten something from it. I know I've said this before, but I really am going to make that 2nd video (and hopefully more!). As I mentioned below, life has just kept me incredibly busy for the past couple years (a big job change, kids, pets, you name it, LOL.) But there is plenty more I can share, so I'll start working on it. :-)
Looking forward to more vids on this great technique, which has changed the life of this 53 year old beginner drummer. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you, Scott! I have been working out of "Wrist Twisters" since I first saw your video a few months ago. The concepts and exercises are amazing. Thanks for making this information available, and for promoting Buster's book. I'm loving it. Can't wait for more videos from you on the topic!
Thanks for this great video. I hope to work on this and the wrist buster exercises. I met Buster one time at IU in the 70's. Such a kind man. Buster studied with my teacher Bob Matson at Julliard and spoke very highly of him. There was a story once that Buster auditioned once for Mr Matson as he was unavailable. The point being that one Goodman student was as good as another.
Hi Everyone-continued thanks for all the good feedback on this video. I know, I know-I've been saying for years I'd make a followup-and I will! (And feel I'm getting closer to doing it as demand builds here, LOL.) Life is busy between family and a demanding job with a lot of travel. In the meantime, I thought I'd post an essay I wrote a few years back about (more or less) the same topic as this video-learning to drum the Buster Bailey way. Here's the link: medium.com/@Scott_Wilkinson/learning-to-drum-for-real-3bb9d36bc190
A very high quality video on this technique. This video is akin to a collector's item as it is a gem of information with excellent teaching by Scott. A follow up video would be great. Not much information about this technique, thanks to Scott for passing this on.
To elaborate, not much information about this technique on the internet except for Scott's. His explanation is the best I have encountered. I never knew of this technique until seeing this video. More information and videos would be great.
Thank you so much for putting this up here. I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of "Wrist Twisters" having just ordered it last night. I hope that you will find the time to do another video as this was very informative. Thanks again Scott!
Thanks Scott - very helpful! I'm a "returning" percussionist - having not played for some time, I'm basically "starting over" from scratch. I've been perusing the web and finding all kinds of approaches. I think I'm understanding the genius of this approach - it seems to address the two extremes you mention - an overly wrist-muscled approach, and a quasi-tense finger-control (so-called "open-close") in which there is too much looseness in the grip as well as tension / inefficient use of the fingers. Mr. Bailey seems to circumvent both by starting with a very relaxed approach and very incrementally adding only the least amount of control that is needed - brilliant! It does seem - as another commentor indicated - that around 15:30 there has been that incremental addition of finger control (without resorting to a tense, over-worked open-close action) to regulate the evenness of spacing and volume - yes ? Could you please confirm that, while not devolving into a tense and extreme "open-close" finger technic, yet a quiet evolution into just slightly more finger control is needed when "following the rebound" to "finish" the technic? Having your clarification would be most helpful to me, as I would want to be able to produce a series of notes which are exactly spaced and of even volume rather than simply following a decaying rebound. Most eagerly awaiting your response - and most appreciative of what you have given us here! Thank you!
Hi aBachwardsfellow - delayed reply here - I can tell the whole "fingers v. wrist" question is bugging a lot of people. :-) And I see why-when watching myself (on the video) or even watching someone else, it's not easy to tell how much of each stroke is coming from fingers, wrist, or what percentages of each? Regarding your desire to play a series of notes/taps that are the same dynamic level, I'd say that to achieve this, I would definitely only use my wrist. At no time do I ever revert to a "mostly finger" or "all finger" technique (that is, I never just loosen the fulcrum and use only my fingers to drive each tap). Honestly, I rarely (if ever) practice playing a constant stream of equally loud notes-because to me, it's just not very musical (there are few places in music where you'd ever want to do that). I'm always trying to give shape to what I'm playing-focusing on phrasing (and on drums, phrasing largely consists of varying your dynamic level). To your other question-whether as I speed up I might evolve into slightly more finger control-I'd say "maybe just a little?" I like to think of my fingers like soft "springs" under the stick: after you throw the tip down, when the stick rebounds, your fingers act a bit like a gentle spring to control that rebound. And I use the spring analogy because what your fingers do is passive-not active. (You should actively being *trying* to use your fingers to move the stick up or down-motion and energy comes from your wrist.)
@@SWriverstone - wow ! - thanks Scott - very helpful! I think the main point at which I'm thinking of playing a series of notes at the same dynamic level is playing two re-bounded as in a double stroke - where I'd want the second stroke to be equal to the first - and this would be occurring at a speed faster than the wrist could accommodate. But I think the discussion may be nearly moot at that point since it would be mostly indistinguishable. I've seen a few youtubes where the rebound control is very (overly!) active and which, while it seems to achieve the desired effect for the player who's showing it, it's definitely not a very natural stroke as compared to what you've shown. The "soft-spring" effect is exactly what you're showing, and I think it's also the key point of Bailey's technical approach - thanks again for sharing it so aptly. I like that you mentioned you like to shape the notes more than playing them all identically - that seems much more musical. I've been working with Ravel's "Bolero" and am wondering how much shaping would be appropriate/"allowable" - could there be an ever so slight swell in the triplets ending on the following 1/8th note? I think in your last sentence you may have meant to have a "not" in there somewhere - ? i.e. "(You should *not* actively being trying to use your fingers to move the stick up or down-motion and energy comes from your wrist.)" - or, "(You should actively being trying *not* to use your fingers to move the stick up or down-motion and energy comes from your wrist.) ? - :-) Thanks again for your well-stated response - and again for this rare and well-presented video - MUCH appreciated!
For me this looks like a more controlled form of the moeller technique. I hope there will be a second video. And I also hope you will explane an show us the benefits of this technique. Appreciate your Lesson and kind regards!
Hi Scott, I was pleasantly surprised by your video entering my feed. Your explanation and demonstration of the technique was beautiful and impressive and I’m glad that this information is now becoming available. A book like wrist twisters is a whole different experience combined with a description of the technique used to teach the exercises. Thank you for that. When you said that you had tried other techniques, I’m just curious what those were? Thank again for these videos!
Wonderful demonstration. Looks like a Light Moeller Movement. Really calms me down when I do your exercises. So relaxed. Every concert and jazz drummer should be aware of this in the light manner you perform it....Has changed my movement towards the snare and rest of drum set. Any opinion on the ride cymbal up-tempo techniques? Thanks.
Thanks for the video Scott. I studied with Ronald Gould who was the principal percussionist of the New York City ballet for years and he advocated similar concepts. While working on the first exercise, you demonstrate, it seems that if you're following the rebound that the rebounds will not fall in perfect eighth notes, especially at a slow tempo. In other words, if I throw and let go with all of my fingers except thumb and index while pointing the index finger down so the stick can move, the stick will come all the way back bump up against my hand, come back to the pad and then each succeeding hit will speed up as the rebounds get smaller. So there has to be some control a.k.a. tension in the hand in order to keep the stick going in eighth notes. I agree with the conceptual approach that you are showing here and thought that you made it clear. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again for the video.
Hi Brian-good observation! yes, obviously you have to exercise a bit of control with the exercises to keep a steady tempo. I need to think about this more, but it seems to me that the *kind* of control that works best is determining how far you allow the natural rebound to travel for each tap: if you don't let the rebound continue all the way up (but stop it, say, 60% of the way up), then your next tap will happen sooner. Put differently, if I'm doing that exercise very slowly (like 1/4 note=60bpm) then I'll let every rebound come as far up (high) as possible (because there is more time between taps) If I'm doing it at 1/4 note=120bpm, I won't let the rebounds come up as high. (Does that make sense?)
To me it looks like you ar going from wrist to finger movement as you speed it up. This only seems natural to me as the wrists cant possibly keep up. The movement go's from big to small. Still extremely interesting, this is the only cool video i could find on the Bailey technique, so please make the next one. I have been looking out for it for a long time.. Thanks.
Your delivery and material are outstanding. I found this video through your thread about learning drumset as a classically trained percussionist. I noticed that you haven't been active there or here with more drum material. I hope you've found time to work on your set playing if that's still a priority for you. I was really curious to see how your development went based on your perspective in that thread. Did you end up exploring anything by Jojo Mayer further? Some of the techniques he explores on Secret Weapons part 1 seem similar to what you're describing here, but Bailey applied the idea to everything. I'm probably missing some nuance from just the brief intro, but it's great to have more excellent videos that practice this technique and aren't behind a paywall like Drumeo or a streaming DVD.
Thanks for your time and sharing, but I had some questions: How does this apply when playing different patterns and rudiments? Are you stating that you NEVER use fingers underneath to control the bounce? I'd like to see you apply this to single stroke rolls and so forth.... I'm not questioning you, or Mr. Bailey's credentials, just trying to understand how this applies to different things. When I watch Buddy Rich, he seems to use wrist, fingers, as well as obviously controlling the bounce... thanks for your time...
Hi Fighter91-super-delayed reply here (I missed your question 8 months ago!) but for the benefit of anyone else who sees it...with any technique (not just this one) I think it's difficult to isolate the movement of fingers and wrist from one another. It's also difficult to pinpoint precisely how much you use either one-because drumming is always a "whole hand" thing. Unless you have a death grip on the stick with all your fingers (and never relax it), you'll always be using some combination of fingers and wrist. As I mentioned in a reply to another question, the most important thing with this technique is the *mindset*-like using The Force, you must "believe" that you're using your wrists more than your fingers...and so strive to keep your wrist as relaxed and loose as possible. Similarly, in this video I'm never *consciously* using my fingers-that is, at no point am I saying to myself "I'm going to pull the stick (behind the fulcrum) up into my hand really quickly using my fingers." I hope this makes sense-the emphasis needs to be on a supremely relaxed, loose *wrist* as opposed to fingers.
Hi Scott. I have a TH-cam video titled Buster Bailey's Wrist Twisters demonstrating the first set of exercises which are key to all the other exercises in the book. Unfortunately my Zoom video recorder does not record voice very well so I explain the concept of his teaching and what I'm playing in the comments.
Scott, I'm having dinner with Joey Bracchitta, Erik Charlston, and John Leister on Thursday. You should join us, we can discuss all this over Mexican food and red wine !!
Hey Scott I found your video interesting. This is a really artistic free flowing style of playing I've never quite seen or heard before. You seem to play it very well too. Are you a fan of any of Frank Arsenaults work or Wilcoxon?
Hi Dave-I certainly know who Arsenault and Wilcoxon were (I played a lot of the stuff from their books many years ago)...but I've never actually seen either of them play, so don't much about their technique. (Off to search TH-cam to see if there are any videos of them playing...)
Hi Scott, thanks so very much for posting this video. I have a copy of Buster Bailey's "Wrist Twisters" book on its way to me, and I'd like to contact you regarding Skype lessons (I'm in Australia). I can't see any contact information on your channel here, and so I'm wondering if there's a URL or an email address you wouldn't mind publishing here (or you can contact me through the contacts on my channel) so that I may get in touch with you about this? Thanks very much, and I hope to hear from you soon. All the very best from Sydney, Australia, Dave Goodman.
Best drummers like Gene Krupa Buddy Rich Louie Bellson David Garibaldi Chad Wackerman Vinny Colaiuta Chek Silverman study Murray Spivack and Fredy Gruber Gary Coffee Explay .Thank you for sharing !!!
Hello Scott, good video, I'm studying buster bailey books, but with your video I understand it better, all the concepts. I have a question for you, what kind of drumstick are you using, or, if you know what drumstick buster used it? Thanks, and hope to see the next video
This is a long-overdue reply: in the video I'm actually using a pair of Vic Firth marching snare sticks (I think they're the Ralph Hardimon model, which I don't even know if they still make?) They're basically logs, LOL. I've always tended to use sticks that are little (or a lot, in this case!) on the heavier side, because I find the weight of the stick helps with this technique. Back when I played in orchestras, I generally used sticks like Firth's SD1 Generals. Though I haven't tried, I've got to think using Buster's technique might be more difficult using a really thin stick like a 7A.
I have two pair of sticks Buster used he gave to me when I studied with him... they were Saul Goodman models ... one was long head and the other a rounder bead.. available today but not the same... I treasure these sticks...
@@georgerynar8785 Hi George, would love to get in touch about your experiences with Mr Bailey. Do you have a public point of contact that you can communicate to me on here?
@@SteveStockmalMusic should have been "bead" - "bear" is a typo - the letter "r" being just adjacent to the letter "d" - maybe just a long fingernail - ;-)
Not to mention that traditional grip, is unnecessary. We all know the original reason for that grip, the drum's shoulder strap was in the way of left hand. Great video, btw. I've been using the first step, but the drop and the follow through are newer techniques for me. I will be using this for myself as well as my sons. I've been playing since '84 and Yet I still look at drumming as something from which I can always learn new ideas from. My life long quest to be the best, lol. It rhymed, sorry. Well done tutorial I'm saving this and subscribing. Thank you, sir.
@Pete is never wrong Then you've been brain-washed to think so. It IS unnecessary. It looks good, I'll give you that. But we no longer need to use it. Have you ever wondered why timpani/marimba players don't play traditional? They don't need to because their instruments are not slanted like the original military snare drums were, which forced you to adapt your grip into what we now call Traditional Grip. If traditional feels better, why not use it with both hands? We no longer have to use that grip. The argument used to be, you can't play Jazz/Swing without using traditional. Some of the greatest Jazz drummers today play matched. Bill Stewart, Ari Hoenig, Mark Giuliana, Billy Kilson, Nate Smith, Eric Harland, etc. And they all swing like mothers. It's 2019. Playing traditional is a choice, NOT a necessity.
Hi All-many thanks for all the great comments. And they're piling up so much that I'm getting closer to producing a second video. :-) I'll make an effort to get a part 2 out in the next month or so (and I'll make it shorter so it doesn't take so long!)
Hi Scott :) In this part 1 you played ||:RRRL:|| with the throw or accent on the 1st note. Will you be demonstrating the accent on the third, and second, notes? It looks really cool how Buster Bailey writes it with crescendos and decrescendos but I can't imagine what the technique is supposed to be like on that first variation. LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR NEXT VIDEO! Thank you, Scott, for everything you've taught and demonstrated so far! This is really cool.
Once thrown this technique let’s the stick drop more the once that Moeller teaches; where it allows throw, hit, bounce, hit and catch. The freer hand grip letting the wrist rotate and not the 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers regulate stick bounce , as in Moeller, this makes it more efficient in terms of energy. My residual questions not answered by this demo in contrast to Moeller are: how do you apply it to the traditional rudiments and how do you get a roll that is consistent when the second and subsequent ‘falling’ strokes have less energy (less volume)? Now to find if Part II exists!
Thank you for the video. I just have to point out that you might as well be playing Traditional grip because your grip between both hands is completely different. Your right hand looks like the fulcrum is just behind the first knuckle of your index finger & your pinky finger is definitely on the stick. Your left hand clearly has the fulcrum in the first joint of the middle finger, your index finger is pointing straight down, and your pinky finger is pointing straight down as well. Also. in the rebound exercises you are quite obviously using your fingers. Which is correct because you can't get 9 bounces from the stick without using your fingers, but you should be clear about that.
Thanks Jim-interesting comments. I agree that my hands aren’t 100% identical. I doubt anyone’s are since we all have stronger & weaker hands. But I’m still far from traditional grip, which (as you know) uses a completely different wrist motion. As for using my fingers, while my fingers may be moving up and down with the part of the stick that’s behind the fulcrum, this is a very different technique than the Morello or other finger techniques. With those techniques, you *deliberately* use your fingers to consciously pull up on the stick-or put differently, those are “finger driven” techniques. I’m not doing that-at least not anywhere near the extent you would in those other techniques. This is still a rebound energy-driven technique, and my wrists are still very relaxed and following the rebound of the stick. Admittedly as you play faster a lot of this stuff gets “blurred” and it’s harder to tell what’s happening. The important thing about the Bailey technique is the mindset as much as anything else-which is keeping your wrists completely relaxed. Please understand that I don’t suggest the Bailey technique is superior to all other techniques. It’s effective for me and some others, but it’s just one of several techniques out there. 👍
@@SWriverstone Thank you so much for the reply! I did not intend any disrespect, I appreciate your willingness to share the knowledge. I had the great good fortune to study technique with Richard Wilson & Murray Spivak here in L.A.. I'm sure you're familiar with those guys & understand all the connections back to Billy Gladstone. I'm an old guy, started with Trad. grip, switched to matched for 20+ years, now have switched back to Trad. 10 years ago at the suggestion of Jeff Hamilton. Making the switch from Trad. to matched and back to Trad has given me an interesting perspective on the 2 grips. Thanks again for the reply! I would love to be able to have a continued dialog with you. All the best!
@@jwfatgruv1 No disrespect taken Jim-we're just talking and sharing ideas! :-) And the truth is, I actually don't know much about the techniques of old-school folks like Billy Gladstone, and I'd like to learn more. In my case, I just thought I had a clue how to play until I went to Juilliard and started studying with Buster, and he pretty much tore down everything I was doing and built it up from scratch again. :-)
Not sure what I think of this? to me the throw looks like the free stroke , the drops a little like the notes you get for nothing when doing moeller technique but unlike moeller it doesn't seem to be something you can do in a circular fashion just on one hand (unless that comes in a future lesson?) …..like the moeller though it doesn't seem to be a very even stroke as you get an accent from the main throw note...… and being relaxed is definitely always a good thing but I have to say after 20 odd years or however long this guy said he'd been doing this I have to say he doesn't seem to be flying with this in terms of speed...… I've seen a clip somewhere on TH-cam of an ex pupil of Freddie Gruber demonstrating a method where you have to feel the weight of the stick transfer to either end of the stick to give a kind of pendulum /perpetual motion type of feel and that seem to produce a much evener stroke (again the idea being minimum input maximum output same as this ) but with much greater speed......maybe something in future lessons with this will change my mind but so far the Freddie Gruber seems far superior
In my experience, speed isn't really a problem. At a certain point, you transition from singles into double strokes, and this technique makes that transition alot cleaner than others. I don't use this as my primary grip, but still incorporate it into my practice, because of this.
I think you are using your fingers when you play the 3/4 exercise faster, towards the end of the video. I’m certain you’re very relaxed and that it’s effortless and doesn’t create any tension but I think to describe it as just from the initial stroke , at that faster tempo in particular, is a bit misleading and dogmatic. I appreciate its very hard to get the brevity of these things absolutely spot on. Very good video , whatever. I’ll practise this. 🥁❤️🎶❤️🥁
so cool, would this be possible with a 3 point grip were the middle finger and thumb are the fulcrum and the index finger is used as support (Dave Weckl, Steve Smith)
@AquaAnim: yes, I think the basic concept of throwing the stick into the head, then following the rebound with your wrist could be applied to almost any type of grip-as long as you actually follow the rebound with the wrist and don't loosen (or open up) your fingers so that the stick moves independently of the wrist. :-)
It looks like hes using finger control alittle. But he said shouldn't use it because it's not a good way to control the stick. I see morelllo, bellson and rich use finger control. I dont think it's a bad technique for speed?
I'm no expert on the Moeller technique. In fact, I don't really know much about it other than watching the many videos on TH-cam that show (or claim to show) what it's about. I do think there are some similarities with Buster's technique (and Buster certainly knew Moeller and knew a lot about his technique). The big difference I notice with the Moeller technique, though, is that it's not as relaxed, and not as musical. Most of the videos I see of people using the Moeller technique (including Jim Chapin's) they're all WAILING away on the drum or practice pad. I don't see much use or application of the Moeller technique at moderately quiet (mp) or quiet (p) levels. (It might work well at low volumes? I don't know?) The whole "throw-drop" concept Buster taught-along with being supremely relaxed-is applicable at any dynamic level (you simply move more toward "all drops" at quieter levels "all throws" at louder levels). The other thing I notice in many Moeller technique videos is a lot of arm (forearm) motion-e.g. people using their arms like "the handle of the whip." Buster's technique doesn't rely on that extreme arm motion. There is some (I'm not saying I don't use my arms at all), but it's much less than, say, Jim Chapin's videos where his arms are flying up and down!
Spot on mr Wilkinson! Too many drummers have a background from military music, marching bands and rudimental drilling. It is very seldom talked/ taught about musicality. Mr Bailey didn’t only taught mechanics but also about how to play with a musical sense. Too little is known about Buster Bailey’s teaching. I need to know more……..Please help us with a second part. We have been waiting for a long time.
@@SWriverstone I disagree . In chapins video the moeller technique is exaggerated to show the technique for beginners . Once the player is accustomed to moeller and it’s sped up that “ whip “ is lessened and is not as aggressive to perform quicker notes - this is the exact same as “ throw - drop “ technique You talk of . The throw being a smaller whip ( but still a whip ) and the drop being the secondary notes that would be played in moeller
Technique is flawed and lacks definition and power. It's all muddy bounces. It ignores Moeller technique and accents. Sorry Man, but this is a wimpy form of playing.
amazing lesson. thank you so much. when i watch Jim Keltner or Vinnie playing, i notice no tension in their writs . i know they are other techniques including gladstone or moeller for the whip in their or the free stroke. But i notice they do pick it up and they release all tension from the wrist. all of it. this technique as far as i can tell releases all tension from the wrist which i take to mean results in very little shock into the hand on impact which can give dynamic control and longetivity for the drumset application.. these guys last a long time and no injury from stress repetitive motions. This technique youve shown addresses that tension in the wrist and seeks to remove it. so crucial. your hands are amazing. thanks again. i am trying these exercises you shown.and focusing on them. thanks again.
Hi Scott,
Excellent video! I studied for a while with Arnie Lang and he then sent me to Buster. He was also a great teacher. It’s funny, that he would tell me how he really wanted to be a circus drummer. He had antique circus posters in his house. I had all these hand written exercises he would write out for me , this was before he put out his book which I have. I’m glad you’re showing this with matched grip since that’s what I use.
Okay-the demand for a followup video is close to critical mass, LOL. which means I'm closer to actually doing it! As a preview, here are some of the things I'm considering for a next video (or series of videos): the "right" way to play flams-which is playing them like what they are: grace notes (including more throw-drop exercises incorporating flams); multiple bounce rolls (as opposed to "crush" or "buzz" rolls); and a concept that Buster Bailey really emphasized, which he characterized as "feeling the weight go from side to side," or in other words, always practicing a relaxed back and forth from right to left (in terms of sticking)-with the goal of making your weaker hand as relaxed and capable as your stronger hand.
You ar so wanted. Thank god, I really started to worry if you where o.k. You ar the only one able to show this technique properly as far as I know. I assume it is the technique that comes closest to drummers like Tony Williams for example. only he holds he's sticks at the back. (th-cam.com/video/uFCJs_WvsG4/w-d-xo.html ).
The wrist seems to be key.
It's very important for me to be able to play along and watch you playing, while practicing this technique. So I watch't this video every time when I practice or warm up.
Rick Dior his you tube Channel is my favorite: th-cam.com/video/gIhRm5KdXr4/w-d-xo.html
I believe he also study't with C Elden Bailey. I recently send him a request to check your video and maybe explain more. But Scott is back so i'l be waiting for that notification bell to ring. That would be, Well..you know....
th-cam.com/video/gIhRm5KdXr4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Scott. This one video was crucial to help my study.
Hallo, your first video was greatly helpful and I'd love to see a following one. The information you gave is so precious - and almost impossible to find so clearly explained!
Hey Scott. Sounds cool! Now would be a great time with all the staying indoors and whatnot. That last concept (shifting weight) sounds amazing. I would love to see, hear, and learn about that!!!!
I feel like my diminuendos are 10x better after practicing the ideas from this video of yours over the years (as well my wrists being more relaxed). So I'm also curious about Buster's approach to the crescendos in Wrist Twisters, with one hand especially, like his RRRL & LLLR exercises towards the beginning of the book.
Hope all is well with you!
I can’t stop coming back to this video of yours, Scott. I hope you’re staying well, and I’m really looking forward to seeing Part II, when it’s ready. Inexplicably, I’m intrigued and mesmerized by Mr Bailey’s snare drumming more than just about anything else I’ve ever heard in music, and anything you can offer in explaining and demystifying his approach will be greatly appreciated. All the best, Dave in Sydney.
Man, forget a follow up video - you need to make a whole library! This is pure gold man! You can't deprive the world of this information!!! Get to it!!!!!!
This lone video has helped me relax more than any other lesson I've ever had. I'm ready for the next lesson sir..
Great! This needs to be seen. The only way to overcome technical difficulties is through a totally relaxed approach as you have pointed out . I tell my students it's like throwing a baseball...you wind up and release the ball. There's no tension in the arm, wrist or fingers. You use just enough force to get the ball to it's target...no more than is necessary. By practicing the "throw and Drop" the student will develop a sensitivity in the hands to the bounce of the stick off the drum or pad. I still spend an hour every day on what Buster's students affectionately called "Wrist Twisters." I studied with Buster some twenty six years ago while I was in The Marine Band in Washington DC. He was an amazing snare drummer (also tambourine and accessory instruments) This technique has helped me as an orchestral player and as a set player. It will enable one to play the snare drum or drum set more musically, more confidently and masterfully. Thanks for your video Scott.
Geat technique...hope to see the 2nd part soon. Thanks
Hi All: I really have been intending to make a 2nd video on Buster Bailey's technique, but life has kept me ridiculously busy between work and family. But I do plan to make another one, so stay tuned! (And thanks for watching!)
Thanks Scott
Scott Wilkinson Scott: (I'm on my wife's computer!). I'm very impressed with the Bailey concepts. I plan to order Wrist Twisters as soon as the budget can afford it. Love the vid, look forward to number 2. Bill Stieger (pro drummer for 45 years). Email: delablobbo@gmail.com
+Scott Wilkinson 16 years now playing and I plan to tear my hands down and rebuild so here's to hoping for video #2. You explained this stuff extremely well, any drummer that stumbles upon this appreciates your time. Cheers, Scott!
Hi!
Thank You so much for this video!
Looking forward to see 2nd., but actually this 1st. is pretty ”enough”. Its like a new world actually. My son is studying percussion. He plays some Bigband gig in TH-cam as well.
Mitja Koskiluoma
Great video! My father, Michael Aaronson, also studied under Buster.
Long time Scott! Excellent demo with super clear demonstrations of Buster's sound and technique. Wonderful
Amazing lesson.
Thanks Scott for your willingness to share. Enjoyed the lesson.
Just posting up again-thanks to all who've enjoyed this video and gotten something from it. I know I've said this before, but I really am going to make that 2nd video (and hopefully more!). As I mentioned below, life has just kept me incredibly busy for the past couple years (a big job change, kids, pets, you name it, LOL.) But there is plenty more I can share, so I'll start working on it. :-)
Please! The second video! Really great concepts!
Looking forward to more vids on this great technique, which has changed the life of this 53 year old beginner drummer.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Great video. Looking forward to Part 2. Buster was the master.
Thank you, Scott! I have been working out of "Wrist Twisters" since I first saw your video a few months ago. The concepts and exercises are amazing. Thanks for making this information available, and for promoting Buster's book. I'm loving it. Can't wait for more videos from you on the topic!
Thank you! It’s a very natural exercise, I felt so comfortable when I was practicing it
Gives new and additional insights in techniques like Moeller, rebound, finger control, push pull and grip. Thanks for the demonstration and lesson.
Thanks for this great video. I hope to work on this and the wrist buster exercises. I met Buster one time at IU in the 70's. Such a kind man. Buster studied with my teacher Bob Matson at Julliard and spoke very highly of him. There was a story once that Buster auditioned once for Mr Matson as he was unavailable. The point being that one Goodman student was as good as another.
Thanks,,,very good lesson...
Great lesson & video presentation, Scott. Thank you for sharing the knowledge!
Hi Everyone-continued thanks for all the good feedback on this video. I know, I know-I've been saying for years I'd make a followup-and I will! (And feel I'm getting closer to doing it as demand builds here, LOL.) Life is busy between family and a demanding job with a lot of travel. In the meantime, I thought I'd post an essay I wrote a few years back about (more or less) the same topic as this video-learning to drum the Buster Bailey way. Here's the link: medium.com/@Scott_Wilkinson/learning-to-drum-for-real-3bb9d36bc190
Cant wait for the part TWO! 🤞🏻 great content, hope to get to see you soon in a next video
I'm on a somewhat hand technique binge, found your video today excellent stuff! Would also love to see a part 2! 😄 Thankyou
Scott studied with Buster amazing player amazing person...great video...
Part 2 please this was excellent and very informative!
Add another vote in favor of gifting us with a second Bailey video! -with gratitude for the first
Great explanations, thanks! Can't wait for the next video!
A very high quality video on this technique. This video is akin to a collector's item as it is a gem of information with excellent teaching by Scott. A follow up video would be great. Not much information about this technique, thanks to Scott for passing this on.
To elaborate, not much information about this technique on the internet except for Scott's. His explanation is the best I have encountered. I never knew of this technique until seeing this video. More information and videos would be great.
Choice. Thank you!
Beautifully explained. I would love to see a second part!
O.k Scott, I have been practicing this exercise for 5 years now, I think I'm ready for a new one.
Thank you so much for putting this up here. I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of "Wrist Twisters" having just ordered it last night. I hope that you will find the time to do another video as this was very informative. Thanks again Scott!
Scott, This is great stuff, and makes so much sense.... can't wait for Lesson 2. :-)
Appreciate you sharing this great approach to playing
Can’t wait for part 2!!
Thanks for the great lesson Scott!! Is there a part 2?
I'm no expert, but if there wasn't any audio, I'd look at this and interpret this technique as a, " Low Moeller". One stroke, and multiple rebounds.
Wow sehr 👍 erklärt und gezeigt danke für dieses Video danke
Scott, we want a second lesson !!!Please !!! I'd love to watch you doing a single stroke roll with this technique ; great video !
Thanks Scott - very helpful! I'm a "returning" percussionist - having not played for some time, I'm basically "starting over" from scratch. I've been perusing the web and finding all kinds of approaches. I think I'm understanding the genius of this approach - it seems to address the two extremes you mention - an overly wrist-muscled approach, and a quasi-tense finger-control (so-called "open-close") in which there is too much looseness in the grip as well as tension / inefficient use of the fingers. Mr. Bailey seems to circumvent both by starting with a very relaxed approach and very incrementally adding only the least amount of control that is needed - brilliant! It does seem - as another commentor indicated - that around 15:30 there has been that incremental addition of finger control (without resorting to a tense, over-worked open-close action) to regulate the evenness of spacing and volume - yes ? Could you please confirm that, while not devolving into a tense and extreme "open-close" finger technic, yet a quiet evolution into just slightly more finger control is needed when "following the rebound" to "finish" the technic? Having your clarification would be most helpful to me, as I would want to be able to produce a series of notes which are exactly spaced and of even volume rather than simply following a decaying rebound. Most eagerly awaiting your response - and most appreciative of what you have given us here! Thank you!
Hi aBachwardsfellow - delayed reply here - I can tell the whole "fingers v. wrist" question is bugging a lot of people. :-) And I see why-when watching myself (on the video) or even watching someone else, it's not easy to tell how much of each stroke is coming from fingers, wrist, or what percentages of each? Regarding your desire to play a series of notes/taps that are the same dynamic level, I'd say that to achieve this, I would definitely only use my wrist. At no time do I ever revert to a "mostly finger" or "all finger" technique (that is, I never just loosen the fulcrum and use only my fingers to drive each tap). Honestly, I rarely (if ever) practice playing a constant stream of equally loud notes-because to me, it's just not very musical (there are few places in music where you'd ever want to do that). I'm always trying to give shape to what I'm playing-focusing on phrasing (and on drums, phrasing largely consists of varying your dynamic level). To your other question-whether as I speed up I might evolve into slightly more finger control-I'd say "maybe just a little?" I like to think of my fingers like soft "springs" under the stick: after you throw the tip down, when the stick rebounds, your fingers act a bit like a gentle spring to control that rebound. And I use the spring analogy because what your fingers do is passive-not active. (You should actively being *trying* to use your fingers to move the stick up or down-motion and energy comes from your wrist.)
@@SWriverstone - wow ! - thanks Scott - very helpful! I think the main point at which I'm thinking of playing a series of notes at the same dynamic level is playing two re-bounded as in a double stroke - where I'd want the second stroke to be equal to the first - and this would be occurring at a speed faster than the wrist could accommodate. But I think the discussion may be nearly moot at that point since it would be mostly indistinguishable.
I've seen a few youtubes where the rebound control is very (overly!) active and which, while it seems to achieve the desired effect for the player who's showing it, it's definitely not a very natural stroke as compared to what you've shown. The "soft-spring" effect is exactly what you're showing, and I think it's also the key point of Bailey's technical approach - thanks again for sharing it so aptly.
I like that you mentioned you like to shape the notes more than playing them all identically - that seems much more musical. I've been working with Ravel's "Bolero" and am wondering how much shaping would be appropriate/"allowable" - could there be an ever so slight swell in the triplets ending on the following 1/8th note?
I think in your last sentence you may have meant to have a "not" in there somewhere - ? i.e. "(You should *not* actively being trying to use your fingers to move the stick up or down-motion and energy comes from your wrist.)" - or, "(You should actively being trying *not* to use your fingers to move the stick up or down-motion and energy comes from your wrist.) ? - :-)
Thanks again for your well-stated response - and again for this rare and well-presented video - MUCH appreciated!
@@aBachwardsfellow Glad it was helpful! And yes, I did mean to have a "not" in that last sentence. :-)
For me this looks like a more controlled form of the moeller technique. I hope there will be a second video. And I also hope you will explane an show us the benefits of this technique. Appreciate your Lesson and kind regards!
John, great lesson....I will be looking for part two as well. nicely done.
This is very helpful for me, waiting for part 2 :]
I enjoyed this video. Sad that there hasnt been a 2nd part still. Now 2018 almost 2019
Hi Scott, I was pleasantly surprised by your video entering my feed. Your explanation and demonstration of the technique was beautiful and impressive and I’m glad that this information is now becoming available. A book like wrist twisters is a whole different experience combined with a description of the technique used to teach the exercises. Thank you for that. When you said that you had tried other techniques, I’m just curious what those were? Thank again for these videos!
Wonderful demonstration. Looks like a Light Moeller Movement. Really calms me down when I do your exercises. So relaxed. Every concert and jazz drummer should be aware of this in the light manner you perform it....Has changed my movement towards the snare and rest of drum set. Any opinion on the ride cymbal up-tempo techniques? Thanks.
Scott we all miss you 😭
Thank you. Very, very helpful.
useful course.... thnx for sharing
i vouch for the second part
"Drop -throw" looks like polite Moeller!
Thank you for sharing! Great Video!
Amazing ! Reminds me “wax on wax off” from karate kid but so so true !
Never thought I'd be calling someone out for having their pinky *ON* the stick.
The smooth, creamy technique
Ok I m tryin to see the analogies with Murray spivack/Wilson
Thanks for the video Scott. I studied with Ronald Gould who was the principal percussionist of the New York City ballet for years and he advocated similar concepts. While working on the first exercise, you demonstrate, it seems that if you're following the rebound that the rebounds will not fall in perfect eighth notes, especially at a slow tempo. In other words, if I throw and let go with all of my fingers except thumb and index while pointing the index finger down so the stick can move, the stick will come all the way back bump up against my hand, come back to the pad and then each succeeding hit will speed up as the rebounds get smaller. So there has to be some control a.k.a. tension in the hand in order to keep the stick going in eighth notes. I agree with the conceptual approach that you are showing here and thought that you made it clear. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks again for the video.
Hi Brian-good observation! yes, obviously you have to exercise a bit of control with the exercises to keep a steady tempo. I need to think about this more, but it seems to me that the *kind* of control that works best is determining how far you allow the natural rebound to travel for each tap: if you don't let the rebound continue all the way up (but stop it, say, 60% of the way up), then your next tap will happen sooner. Put differently, if I'm doing that exercise very slowly (like 1/4 note=60bpm) then I'll let every rebound come as far up (high) as possible (because there is more time between taps) If I'm doing it at 1/4 note=120bpm, I won't let the rebounds come up as high. (Does that make sense?)
To me it looks like you ar going from wrist to finger movement as you speed it up. This only seems natural to me as the wrists cant possibly keep up. The movement go's from big to small. Still extremely interesting, this is the only cool video i could find on the Bailey technique, so please make the next one. I have been looking out for it for a long time.. Thanks.
Your delivery and material are outstanding. I found this video through your thread about learning drumset as a classically trained percussionist. I noticed that you haven't been active there or here with more drum material. I hope you've found time to work on your set playing if that's still a priority for you. I was really curious to see how your development went based on your perspective in that thread. Did you end up exploring anything by Jojo Mayer further? Some of the techniques he explores on Secret Weapons part 1 seem similar to what you're describing here, but Bailey applied the idea to everything. I'm probably missing some nuance from just the brief intro, but it's great to have more excellent videos that practice this technique and aren't behind a paywall like Drumeo or a streaming DVD.
4:53 sounds like me training my dog to fetch 🐕
Throw, drop...
about the vol.2?
Great video thank you.
Thanks for your time and sharing, but I had some questions: How does this apply when playing different patterns and rudiments? Are you stating that you NEVER use fingers underneath to control the bounce? I'd like to see you apply this to single stroke rolls and so forth.... I'm not questioning you, or Mr. Bailey's credentials, just trying to understand how this applies to different things. When I watch Buddy Rich, he seems to use wrist, fingers, as well as obviously controlling the bounce... thanks for your time...
Hi Fighter91-super-delayed reply here (I missed your question 8 months ago!) but for the benefit of anyone else who sees it...with any technique (not just this one) I think it's difficult to isolate the movement of fingers and wrist from one another. It's also difficult to pinpoint precisely how much you use either one-because drumming is always a "whole hand" thing. Unless you have a death grip on the stick with all your fingers (and never relax it), you'll always be using some combination of fingers and wrist. As I mentioned in a reply to another question, the most important thing with this technique is the *mindset*-like using The Force, you must "believe" that you're using your wrists more than your fingers...and so strive to keep your wrist as relaxed and loose as possible. Similarly, in this video I'm never *consciously* using my fingers-that is, at no point am I saying to myself "I'm going to pull the stick (behind the fulcrum) up into my hand really quickly using my fingers." I hope this makes sense-the emphasis needs to be on a supremely relaxed, loose *wrist* as opposed to fingers.
Scott dude where are you..looking at my calender
Any chance for part 2?
Hi Scott. I have a TH-cam video titled Buster Bailey's Wrist Twisters demonstrating the first set of exercises which are key to all the other exercises in the book. Unfortunately my Zoom video recorder does not record voice very well so I explain the concept of his teaching and what I'm playing in the comments.
If u do a solo u normal feel tension going from Tom's to cymbals. So how do you stay relaxed and use this technique
Scott, I'm having dinner with Joey Bracchitta, Erik Charlston, and John Leister on Thursday. You should join us, we can discuss all this over Mexican food and red wine !!
Hey Scott I found your video interesting. This is a really artistic free flowing style of playing I've never quite seen or heard before. You seem to play it very well too. Are you a fan of any of Frank Arsenaults work or Wilcoxon?
Hi Dave-I certainly know who Arsenault and Wilcoxon were (I played a lot of the stuff from their books many years ago)...but I've never actually seen either of them play, so don't much about their technique. (Off to search TH-cam to see if there are any videos of them playing...)
Hi Scott, thanks so very much for posting this video. I have a copy of Buster Bailey's "Wrist Twisters" book on its way to me, and I'd like to contact you regarding Skype lessons (I'm in Australia). I can't see any contact information on your channel here, and so I'm wondering if there's a URL or an email address you wouldn't mind publishing here (or you can contact me through the contacts on my channel) so that I may get in touch with you about this? Thanks very much, and I hope to hear from you soon. All the very best from Sydney, Australia, Dave Goodman.
you have a great speaking voice, are you in radio or something?
Ha-no, but I've been told that. I've done a few voiceovers over the years for video, but that's it. (Maybe I should do it more? LOL)
Best drummers like Gene Krupa Buddy Rich Louie Bellson David Garibaldi Chad Wackerman Vinny Colaiuta Chek Silverman study Murray Spivack and Fredy Gruber Gary Coffee Explay .Thank you for sharing !!!
Hello Scott, good video, I'm studying buster bailey books, but with your video I understand it better, all the concepts. I have a question for you, what kind of drumstick are you using, or, if you know what drumstick buster used it? Thanks, and hope to see the next video
This is a long-overdue reply: in the video I'm actually using a pair of Vic Firth marching snare sticks (I think they're the Ralph Hardimon model, which I don't even know if they still make?) They're basically logs, LOL. I've always tended to use sticks that are little (or a lot, in this case!) on the heavier side, because I find the weight of the stick helps with this technique. Back when I played in orchestras, I generally used sticks like Firth's SD1 Generals. Though I haven't tried, I've got to think using Buster's technique might be more difficult using a really thin stick like a 7A.
Try Steve Weiss Music: www.steveweissmusic.com/product/wrist-twisters-elden-buster-bailey/snare-drum-books-cd
I have two pair of sticks Buster used he gave to me when I studied with him... they were Saul Goodman models ... one was long head and the other a rounder bead.. available today but not the same... I treasure these sticks...
@@georgerynar8785 Hi George, would love to get in touch about your experiences with Mr Bailey. Do you have a public point of contact that you can communicate to me on here?
Interesting.
I used to tell my students to treat the bear of the stick like a ball, and allow it to rebound.
Bear??? 🐻
@@SteveStockmalMusic should have been "bead" - "bear" is a typo - the letter "r" being just adjacent to the letter "d" - maybe just a long fingernail - ;-)
1:59
“Not a death grip”
💀
Lol
Not to mention that traditional grip, is unnecessary. We all know the original reason for that grip, the drum's shoulder strap was in the way of left hand. Great video, btw. I've been using the first step, but the drop and the follow through are newer techniques for me. I will be using this for myself as well as my sons. I've been playing since '84 and Yet I still look at drumming as something from which I can always learn new ideas from. My life long quest to be the best, lol. It rhymed, sorry. Well done tutorial I'm saving this and subscribing. Thank you, sir.
@Pete is never wrong Then you've been brain-washed to think so. It IS unnecessary. It looks good, I'll give you that. But we no longer need to use it. Have you ever wondered why timpani/marimba players don't play traditional? They don't need to because their instruments are not slanted like the original military snare drums were, which forced you to adapt your grip into what we now call Traditional Grip. If traditional feels better, why not use it with both hands? We no longer have to use that grip. The argument used to be, you can't play Jazz/Swing without using traditional. Some of the greatest Jazz drummers today play matched. Bill Stewart, Ari Hoenig, Mark Giuliana, Billy Kilson, Nate Smith, Eric Harland, etc. And they all swing like mothers. It's 2019. Playing traditional is a choice, NOT a necessity.
Any update on part 2?
Hi All-many thanks for all the great comments. And they're piling up so much that I'm getting closer to producing a second video. :-) I'll make an effort to get a part 2 out in the next month or so (and I'll make it shorter so it doesn't take so long!)
Hi Scott :) In this part 1 you played ||:RRRL:|| with the throw or accent on the 1st note. Will you be demonstrating the accent on the third, and second, notes? It looks really cool how Buster Bailey writes it with crescendos and decrescendos but I can't imagine what the technique is supposed to be like on that first variation. LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR NEXT VIDEO! Thank you, Scott, for everything you've taught and demonstrated so far! This is really cool.
I always used Starman when playing Pro Wrestling!
hows that diff from moeller?
Once thrown this technique let’s the stick drop more the once that Moeller teaches; where it allows throw, hit, bounce, hit and catch. The freer hand grip letting the wrist rotate and not the 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers regulate stick bounce , as in Moeller, this makes it more efficient in terms of energy. My residual questions not answered by this demo in contrast to Moeller are: how do you apply it to the traditional rudiments and how do you get a roll that is consistent when the second and subsequent ‘falling’ strokes have less energy (less volume)? Now to find if Part II exists!
Down stroke followed by two low level bounces or more…follow rebound bounce with wrist…thanks
At 19:30 aren't you using fingers?!
Thank you for the video. I just have to point out that you might as well be playing Traditional grip because your grip between both hands is completely different. Your right hand looks like the fulcrum is just behind the first knuckle of your index finger & your pinky finger is definitely on the stick. Your left hand clearly has the fulcrum in the first joint of the middle finger, your index finger is pointing straight down, and your pinky finger is pointing straight down as well. Also. in the rebound exercises you are quite obviously using your fingers. Which is correct because you can't get 9 bounces from the stick without using your fingers, but you should be clear about that.
Thanks Jim-interesting comments. I agree that my hands aren’t 100% identical. I doubt anyone’s are since we all have stronger & weaker hands. But I’m still far from traditional grip, which (as you know) uses a completely different wrist motion. As for using my fingers, while my fingers may be moving up and down with the part of the stick that’s behind the fulcrum, this is a very different technique than the Morello or other finger techniques. With those techniques, you *deliberately* use your fingers to consciously pull up on the stick-or put differently, those are “finger driven” techniques. I’m not doing that-at least not anywhere near the extent you would in those other techniques. This is still a rebound energy-driven technique, and my wrists are still very relaxed and following the rebound of the stick.
Admittedly as you play faster a lot of this stuff gets “blurred” and it’s harder to tell what’s happening. The important thing about the Bailey technique is the mindset as much as anything else-which is keeping your wrists completely relaxed.
Please understand that I don’t suggest the Bailey technique is superior to all other techniques. It’s effective for me and some others, but it’s just one of several techniques out there. 👍
@@SWriverstone Thank you so much for the reply! I did not intend any disrespect, I appreciate your willingness to share the knowledge. I had the great good fortune to study technique with Richard Wilson & Murray Spivak here in L.A.. I'm sure you're familiar with those guys & understand all the connections back to Billy Gladstone. I'm an old guy, started with Trad. grip, switched to matched for 20+ years, now have switched back to Trad. 10 years ago at the suggestion of Jeff Hamilton. Making the switch from Trad. to matched and back to Trad has given me an interesting perspective on the 2 grips. Thanks again for the reply! I would love to be able to have a continued dialog with you. All the best!
@@jwfatgruv1 No disrespect taken Jim-we're just talking and sharing ideas! :-) And the truth is, I actually don't know much about the techniques of old-school folks like Billy Gladstone, and I'd like to learn more. In my case, I just thought I had a clue how to play until I went to Juilliard and started studying with Buster, and he pretty much tore down everything I was doing and built it up from scratch again. :-)
Not sure what I think of this? to me the throw looks like the free stroke , the drops a little like the notes you get for nothing when doing moeller technique but unlike moeller it doesn't seem to be something you can do in a circular fashion just on one hand (unless that comes in a future lesson?) …..like the moeller though it doesn't seem to be a very even stroke as you get an accent from the main throw note...… and being relaxed is definitely always a good thing but I have to say after 20 odd years or however long this guy said he'd been doing this I have to say he doesn't seem to be flying with this in terms of speed...… I've seen a clip somewhere on TH-cam of an ex pupil of Freddie Gruber demonstrating a method where you have to feel the weight of the stick transfer to either end of the stick to give a kind of pendulum /perpetual motion type of feel and that seem to produce a much evener stroke (again the idea being minimum input maximum output same as this ) but with much greater speed......maybe something in future lessons with this will change my mind but so far the Freddie Gruber seems far superior
In my experience, speed isn't really a problem. At a certain point, you transition from singles into double strokes, and this technique makes that transition alot cleaner than others.
I don't use this as my primary grip, but still incorporate it into my practice, because of this.
I think you are using your fingers when you play the 3/4 exercise faster, towards the end of the video. I’m certain you’re very relaxed and that it’s effortless and doesn’t create any tension but I think to describe it as just from the initial stroke , at that faster tempo in particular, is a bit misleading and dogmatic. I appreciate its very hard to get the brevity of these things absolutely spot on. Very good video , whatever. I’ll practise this. 🥁❤️🎶❤️🥁
so cool, would this be possible with a 3 point grip were the middle finger and thumb are the fulcrum and the index finger is used as support (Dave Weckl, Steve Smith)
@AquaAnim: yes, I think the basic concept of throwing the stick into the head, then following the rebound with your wrist could be applied to almost any type of grip-as long as you actually follow the rebound with the wrist and don't loosen (or open up) your fingers so that the stick moves independently of the wrist. :-)
The tea finger
let the stick do the work.
It looks like hes using finger control alittle. But he said shouldn't use it because it's not a good way to control the stick. I see morelllo, bellson and rich use finger control. I dont think it's a bad technique for speed?
It's just the Moeller technique with the tea finger 😂😂
If you don't use the pinky for nothing cut it and throw away 😂😂
You're not gonna get that rebound on a floor tom.
Btw, Buddy Rich wouldn't agree your opinion about traditional grip.
haha. Buddy Rich hated anything new!
this just looks like the moeller technique to me. Whats the difference here?I see none
I'm no expert on the Moeller technique. In fact, I don't really know much about it other than watching the many videos on TH-cam that show (or claim to show) what it's about. I do think there are some similarities with Buster's technique (and Buster certainly knew Moeller and knew a lot about his technique). The big difference I notice with the Moeller technique, though, is that it's not as relaxed, and not as musical. Most of the videos I see of people using the Moeller technique (including Jim Chapin's) they're all WAILING away on the drum or practice pad. I don't see much use or application of the Moeller technique at moderately quiet (mp) or quiet (p) levels. (It might work well at low volumes? I don't know?) The whole "throw-drop" concept Buster taught-along with being supremely relaxed-is applicable at any dynamic level (you simply move more toward "all drops" at quieter levels "all throws" at louder levels). The other thing I notice in many Moeller technique videos is a lot of arm (forearm) motion-e.g. people using their arms like "the handle of the whip." Buster's technique doesn't rely on that extreme arm motion. There is some (I'm not saying I don't use my arms at all), but it's much less than, say, Jim Chapin's videos where his arms are flying up and down!
Spot on mr Wilkinson! Too many drummers have a background from military music, marching bands and rudimental drilling. It is very seldom talked/ taught about musicality. Mr Bailey didn’t only taught mechanics but also about how to play with a musical sense.
Too little is known about Buster Bailey’s teaching. I need to know more……..Please help us with a second part. We have been waiting for a long time.
@@SWriverstone I disagree . In chapins video the moeller technique is exaggerated to show the technique for beginners . Once the player is accustomed to moeller and it’s sped up that “ whip “ is lessened and is not as aggressive to perform quicker notes - this is the exact same as “ throw - drop “ technique You talk of . The throw being a smaller whip ( but still a whip ) and the drop being the secondary notes that would be played in moeller
Ok if you really studied with the one and only Buster Bailey then why does it take you over 6 yrs to make another video 🤣🤣
Technique is flawed and lacks definition and power. It's all muddy bounces. It ignores Moeller technique and accents. Sorry Man, but this is a wimpy form of playing.
His technique is effortless and flawless.
hey brother you are sounding like Donald Trump now... the little hand guy.... I'm sure you know him.He is your president now believe it or not.
Actually, it looks a little like Moeller without the "up" of the "throw - tap - up".