@@gizmo7727 They're more like my minions. They'll fight for my name, but I can slaughter them for fun if I get bored cause they're my little play-things.
30 years of hardcore gaming under my belt. Have never once been tempted to hurt another person or living thing. I did hit and kill a cat with my car two years ago, but i pulled over and cried for about twenty minutes.
My dad, who adores DOOM, Mortal Kombat and many violent games, was maddeningly depressed days after he THOUGHT he ran over a tortoise. I even played Mortal Kombat when I was 4-6.
Actually, Harris never developed the pictured WAD of Columbine High School. That WAD was made by another third party. The claim that Harris _ever_ recreated Columbine High School is heavily disputed and barely substantiated.
@@LiakkDoesStuff a very tasteless one at that, and I say that as a fan of the Postal franchise. I can give games like Postal or Hatred a pass because they’re so stupid and are largely not based on real events, but making a game based on one of America’s most shocking atrocities is just abhorrent. It’s the same issue I have with JFK Reloaded, a literal JFK assassination simulator. It’s simply a line in gaming I will not cross.
+_ Bug hitler rose to power because the people of germany were in turmoil because of the treaty of versailles. he was racist for many reasons, the main being the loss of WW1. he never played doom and violent games, they didn't exist. hitler's mom died of cancer, and his dad died of lung hemorrhage. he had alot of shit in his life and he more than likely went fucking nuts because of it. no, he's not the reason for why hitler existed.
+Jayo Caine You're kidding right, this is not the only case where the bullied kills the bully. Years of getting abused makes you crazy, not all humans are the same, some can just tolerate it. Some just commit suicide instead...
Exactly thanks for proving my point, the mentally ill can't tolerate it and go on rampages. Early intervention is key in these situations, boys will be boys bullying is part of our nature. In the office, in the school yard, out in the field in the military. It always has and always will be a staple trademark of male hormones. Yes it sucks, but it's nature you can't and shouldn't prevent it. Look at the wild, there's Alphas and Betas it's a key component to social hierarchies. Without bullying we wouldn't have some amazing inventions and human beings. Some of the most amazing and creative minds have come to surface just to spite the people who bullied them. Ever hear of the under-dog syndrome? Hell i'm sure one of your favorite videogames was created by a nerd who was made fun of, you get alot of time to cultivate your skills when you're not out invited to all the cool kid parties.
Kid: gets bullied Parents: calm Kid: ends up with psycological trauma and stress because of bullying and neglective parents Parents: calm Kid: does any kind of act of violence Parents: *_Gaem_*
Been playing DOOM and other violent video games to relieve stress and you don't see me hurting anyone. Some people don't know the difference between a video game and reality. The problem is not the games it's the people.
It annoys me that people blame video games and other kinds of media for shootings and such but fail to address the mental stress that was being put on the boy by the bullying in school which was the root cause of their feelings.
+Blaze They even know about and admit the fact that the boys played it to escape from being outcasts, but they refuse to admit the fact that being outcasts was the reason they shot people.
+Blaze Incorrect. The book Columbine, written by Dave Cullen, digs deep into the rumor that these boys were bullied. It is not true. They were, in fact, bullies themselves and sociopaths. FBI profilers Cullen interviewed confirmed this. If the kids had not actually performed this tragic act, more than likely they would have ended up on the FBI's Most Wanted List.
+GuardianR105 Indeed. I do not believe that they did this because of the video game Doom inspired them, I instead believe that they were mentally disturbed individuals that had an obsession with the game because it allowed them to do things that they wished to do, and when the game wasn't enough they actually did it
They also give them a release valve to let off steam. With development and adoption of violent games, violent crimes paradoxically dropped. That is why Germany is not banning violent games anymore.
If you think about Bobby Prince is a mad genius. He was full blown lawyer before choosing to pursue his career in music and as a result he knew perfectly how much sampling of music he was allowed to do before he could get into actual legal trouble.
Playing Doom has turned me into a weapons expert without ever holding a weapon. Isn't it amazing how moving a mouse perfectly simulates every weapon imaginable? My commander told me that in all his career, he has never seen a new recruit fire a rocket launcher by holding it between his legs, let alone propelling himself up by shooting at the ground while jumping.
“I changed the swastika out of the game because people were upset that an evil symbol was in a kids game” “ I removed the swastika out of doom for the same reason” It’s official doom is a children’s game
The fact that 2 idiots want to start a shoot in school just because they got bullied, isn't fault of the game, but parents should blame theirselfs to not know that their children are suffering abuse and bullying because of assholes in school, the game is just a product that give us joy and a good time, not a teacher neither a person you can blame of the actions you did or perform.
Olbed Hayak Asimov Exactly. Also maybe it's the mental state of the kid but those of course are never checked and it's the fault of the game that's complete BULLSHIT. When you shoot up 10 kids in a school, clearly you have a LOST screw in your head that needs to be FIXED it's not the FAULT of a fucking VIDEO GAME!!! I have countless friends and know countless people who played "violent video games" and are the nicest people I've MET. I played god of war when I was 9 but i grew up fine, why didn't i start stabbing people then?! That whole argument is complete BS by now and whoever uses it needs to be fucking executed!
MLG anime tits I agree with all you said (Except the part of execution of course '^_^ ), neither developers of videogames, movies or any kind of media should be stopped by censorship bullshit or SJWs who thinks that their opinión is important, because they are enough keyboard Warriors to blame the work and sacrifice of a person who love and enjoys to make such a masterpieces just because over what they think is correct. Because obviusly people with an education are smart enough to not perform such horrible actions if they know that they are bad of course (Unless they are phsycos, which in all case they should be watched by their parents already to watch out for his mental state), clearly parents are responsable of what their children watch, hear and or play.
Olbed Hayak Asimov Yeah i know. Im not a violent person at all, but seriously every time a see a person who uses this argument i wanna fucking stick a grenade in his fucking throat and force him to swallow it until it explodes in hes stomach obliterating him and causing all of his guts to slowly drop out of the holes in his body and then shoving them up his butthole!!!
You'd be surprised with what kids then could keep from thier parents, bullying isn't the sort of thing they would tell there parents of (all to often that is) and as a result sometimes it did build to a head like that.
Scumbag parents: Try to sue id software because without the game it wouldn't have happened. Don't try to sue the maker or provider of the weapons used by shooter.
Not the maker the provider if someone made a bow and someone bought it and someone stole it from the guy who bought it what do the guy have to do with that
Brian G bullying happens in every school, regardless. My boyfriend was bullied in elementary school until he stood up for himself and showed them who's the boss. Not all kids can do it and having an intervention with the bully's parents will suffice. However the main cause of the Columbine, and every other school shootings throughout the years, is medications related to mental illness. When you are on anti-depressants, you dont feel anything. Adding that with the torment happening at school or home and you will have a disaster that is bound to happen.
now this is exactly why you dont take anti-depressents. learn to cope with it or get help from a professional or let your friends or family help you. hell when i get stressed out i play doom. instead of hurting people irl i kill demons and let the thrill cheer me up.
I just want to point out that most psychiatric facilities were abolished during 60s-80s in America. Letting loose the crazy out into the world. Prime age for parents and their psychopathic kids.
I had been playing video games for seventeen years before I had any formal firearms training, I leaned more in one minute of my first pistol course then I did in seventeen years of video games. The kid who hit 8 people with 8 bullets was most likely in a crowded area where it was hard to miss.
Little correction: CS:GO (at minute 5:29) is not censored in Germany. CS 1.6 however was. "Killed" enemies just sat down and shooked their heads. It was the same in Half Life, when you shot one of the scientists or guards. But like said in the video, the authority in Germany got loose over the last years on this topic.
It's weird they say games train people in the use of a firearm. The main issue is a gun is so simple in design a child simply needs to put two and two together and you figured out how to use one. A gun is pretty much a point and click weapon. I fired a .44 magnum before and shot the target with little issue. It's not very intelligent to say something so simple can only be learned from a videogame. Everyone understands how to stab someone. A videogame doesn't need to give you a life tutorial to figure out pointy thing+neck=death
+Bumbleness Supreme Brady Yea, and as weapons technology is 8ecoming even more refined, recoil is 8ecoming less of an issue to land consecutive shots with semi-automatic weapons. I have an AR-15 made in 2014, its really fun to shoot as its so smooth while delivering a satisfying punch, I have no issue dumping the 30rnd mag under a minute while keeping it on target at ranges of 80m or more, with around a 90% accuracy its honestly so easy to do its a little frightening the the implic8tions that this weapon is just readily availia8le to most anyone. Though there is one thing, firing an actual weapon is not at all like in a video game still, thats simply false, 8ut I would say that may8e, a video game can condition a mind to make quicker, and more precise decisions in a short amount of time, 8ut this learned skill can 8e applied to anything, and honestly, I think more physical "games" like anything with a 8all, or even just tag, would have a similar effect when played competitively. Games in general, not just video games, have the capacity to teach soldier how to fight effectively.
well that depends on all three of your guys percepective. yeah, call of duty teaches you jack shit on weapon handling, but it trickles real knowledge here and there. hold your breath to stabilize your cross hair on targets to small to account for sway, your focus should be on the sights not the target a blurry target can still be hit as long as your sights are aligned, and laying flat, or crouched should increase accuracy. these basic tennets of shooting are what your first taught. it doesnt tell you to pull the trigger straight back with middle of the last segment of your index finger, but we all cant be winners. but my main point is the military advantage of non-military based games. golf can help you account for windspeed affecting bullet curve and drop, something a marksmen with a PhD learns. Theres also the benefit of stratedgy and war games that allow people to understand unit loss, and officer positions. its all about what someone has taken away it. sort of like books, they say they can teach everything, but most people just read fantasy and think what their hero does is real and thats what they want to do.
You're lying, I would understand you first time shooting a 9mm, 45 ACP etc. But if you were to shoot a .44 magnum, you will get knocked right in the face.
I was sure one of the facts would be that it wasn't a 3D game but a clever way of rendering a 2D top down shooter using vertical pixel columns sized to give the illusion of depth.
Been playing DOOM since 1995, when I was 5 and learned how to boot it up in DoS. Never shot up anyone or anything besides clay pigeons and paper targets.
Kid: Getting BULLIED at school to the point that the only emotions they feel are anger and sadness ,also suffering from depression. Parents: iT'S tHe vIDeO GamES!!!
Doom does not cause violent behaviour. Most people can readily differentiate between Doom and reality. Those who can’t have major psychological issues already, usually personality disorders, developed by genetic predispositions and upbringing/childhood issues.
Fun Fact. Every since the release of Doom (the first extremely popular violent game) there has been a VERY large decline of violent crime in the U.S. So while video games have gotten increasingly more violent and crazy, the opposite is happening in the real world. Seriously, look at the statistics, it's pretty crazy. While this doesn't prove that violent games are helping lower real world violence, to say it's increasing it is crazy talk without some kind of study.
+MikeJRthe2nd Actually, if you look at gun violence statistics since the 70s, this point in the graph is the lowest it's ever been. Yet every media outlet is flooded with these horrible "gun nuts" that must be stopped. Just proves there's a large section of easily lead morons that the government likes to use to distract from real issues.
+James Gibson The internet does three things: Helps you learn about guns and gun safety. OR Hundreds shut you down on any sane gun forum just for not having eye protection. OR Helps you want like weekendgunnit on reddit where people just joke with shit they find or do.
There are a lot of factors that could be behind the decrease of homicides: stricter profiling, removal of lead from gasoline, etc. To say that gaming has an impact is hard to judge as no studies have been conducted. It's even harder to do so as Congress continues to object to funding said studies. Regardless of whether it does or does not, legislating any form of media be banned or edited because it's violent or hate speech is ethically wrong.
Inferno Memes and Lets plays Reason why? no. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Besides, the numbers have been going down on the larger scale. Lots of factors, sure. These imbeciles like to blame just one thing though. That's my problem with it. It's ridiculous reasoning followed by specious reasoning and then stripped to be politically correct. Result? One big lump of stupid.
The actual reason John Romero's Door was chopped down was that John had to go to the bathroom, grabbed the door knob, only to have it come apart in his hand, upon which he called Carmack's office and told him to chop the door down as he was actually trapped. According to Carmack they actually had a good excuse to use the battle axe in his office as they had griped about the crappy office attire on a few occasions. :)
Oh damn I remember playing Doom in the upstairs office with the lights out because I wasn't supposed to be playing it, and getting scared shitless coming around the corner to some imp or face-rending demon. hah!
As a German, I always though it was supposed to be prounounced winking over to "idea" software, as in: "We create so great games nobody ever saw before". When I heard it's "idd" I was like "Lame!"
Another fact you didn't mention was that the Nightmare! skill level was added because it was felt that Ultra Violence was too easy. Furthermore it was one of the first skill levels to not be fully playtested so there was no guarantee that it was actually possible. John Romero was actually shocked when the first NM Speed movie demos of Doom II were released
I played Doom when I was 4, and I still love playing it. I grew up to be a nice Christian girl. Video games don't cause problems unless you allow it to.
+KaB Art Studio You don't really have control of your mind when you grow up (adults around you do). It's everything that surrounds you. One game, probably won't cause any problems but if you play it for years or you play a lot of games like that for years when you grow up + plus your parents don't put any interest in you you'll become a very bad person.
+3tjn3 I partly agree. I did play Doom quite a bit. Especially after my dad died when I was just 9 years old. He use to play it with me all the time. It was good memories I had with him, and it's always been one of my favorite games. I was also blessed with wonderful parents who taught me right from wrong. They taught me the difference of fantasy and reality instead of depriving me from video games out of fear that I might do bad things because of games.
I love the whole shareware thing, it’s just- Midway: “Oh shit our bad, we’ll make the game less gorey.” Sega: “Sorry, we’ll drop our game entirely.” ID, shoveling out Doom for free and encouraging everyone to play and modify it however the hell they want: “Smells like a little bitch in here-“
+The Treacherous Disciplin In Australia it's 100 times worse, anything more violent than a handshake is banned and anything that shows more than an exposed ankle is too sexual and is banned.
I'm going to have to step in and say: Eric Harris nor Dylan ever made a Columbine HighSchool mod/map for the game. There is however a few versions floating around of a mod someone made of Columbine (Columbine.wad) massacre... but this was years after. Eric DID make some doom maps but not very many.
The fact about Doom's music being similar to others songs and their creators not taking legal action made me smile. If I made a good song and it was used in a game or the game had a song heavily inspired by my song I would be ok with it as long as the game turned out good. Also censorship in video games sucks, I feel bad for the people with strict censorship laws
The Columbine shooting happened as a result of an idiot getting angry and stressed out from bullying until it reached a boiling point. It would've happened regardless if he played Doom or not. Hell, the shooting probably would've happened sooner if he DIDN'T play Doom, as he wouldn't have a way to vent.
The fact that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were bullied can be disputed but one things for sure: bullying was not the only reason why the columbine shooting happened that day. The truth is is that Eric Harris was an unstable teenager with psychopath tendencies whereas Klebold was a depressive suicidal. Eric pretty much groomed Dylan into the shooting posing it as a way of committing suicide while “righting wrongs” along the way. Doom’s involvement in the cause of the shootings is slim to none. The personality traits and the environment which the two shooters grew up in are much more of an explanation as to why the shooting took place.
The whole "they made a columbine level" is not confirmed so I wouldn't go around saying it's real. He did make levels, but none of them are of CHS to anyone's knowledge. The only evidence of its creation is a small interview of someone claiming to have played it. Just one person. Right after the shooting, people swarmed his site and took whatever they could; no one found any doom level looking anything like CHS.
Ravioli Ravioli Give Me The Formeoli Wrong, they took the symbol from religions like Buddhism and Taoism and turned it slightly looking crooked. So that became to symbol for them.
+ninetaledMK They literally talk about the Colonel literally saying that games help people use firearms accurately... which is horseshit if you're just using something like a SNES controller for DOOM. That's not going to help you become a marksman or trained firearm user in real life, yet the Colonel MORE than implied it did... which is crap.
+Deathbrewer i don't think you were listening. He said they were playing the games to get used to quick decisions and to pull the trigger almost instantly. Not to train them with weapons.
4:38 No one really takes the ESRB seriously anymore, primarily because they were created in a time when video games were blamed for everything, but also because they have bad standards for ratings. I found Doom 2 on Steam, and it was rated M! I understand why, but today it makes no sense! Halo is more gory than it and its rating was downgraded to T!
Releasing Doom's first episode as freely distributable shareware was not some sort of "nuclear option" in response to the possibility of regulatory action. It was just a standard marketing practice for PC games at the time.
"On the 30th of January 2018, John Romero confirmed that commander keen is the father of doom guy, and that B.J Blazkowicz, is the great grandfather of doom guy, and great great great grandfather in another timeline".
About the Composer - Bobby Prince - he was a lawyer, too. Don't know if you guys knew that. Anyway, he figured he knew exactly how closely he could copy those songs without getting sued. And since he never got sued, genius. And Doom 1 and 2 are some of the greatest collective soundtracks ever. So. Win.
Most of my thoughts are around my games, its one of the few things I've always done, love and play whenever I have free time, or not :) - but NEVER have I ever thought to shoot up my school, I was bullied at school for years, as well as horrible stress about exams for the last few years - the games I grew up with are considerably more gruesome than old school doom, I just wonder the differences between me and those shooters at No. 10...
the idea you could shoot better than any trained gunman from playing a game where the gun is always perfectly level vertical aiming is automatic horizontal aiming is generous there's zero recoil infinite stamina and damn near infinite ammo is I freely admit absurd in the highest degree possible
+Xander Patten that was never the idea behind using doom to train soldiers. the video even explains it. it's not about aiming/shooting, it's about making the same decisions over and over again in quick succession, without loosing focus. it was more of a psychological training than a mechanical.
+BoBBy Ray The video clearly says that one of the school shooters was very good at shooting accurately without training, which they attributed to playing Doom. Makes no sense that a game that doesn't require a lot of aiming is supposed to have taught him that.
Mom can I buy Doom? What is Doom? Is a game created by the devs from commander keen. Oh, that family friendly game, yes you can buy it. It OBVIOUSLY itsn't going to be violent. ID is such a good team making family friendly games. Hehehe
The first fact pissed me off, that dumbass was only using my game as an excuse for his fucked up train of thought! He asked me, video games don't cause violence, violence causes violence.
Me: Oh man Doom has some cool facts, I wonder what he's gonna start wi-
"The Columbine High School shooting was..."
*oh okay then*
Satan why do you play doom wouldn’t that just be killing your own “men”
@@gizmo7727 They're more like my minions. They'll fight for my name, but I can slaughter them for fun if I get bored cause they're my little play-things.
Satan that is very interesting
E
Lol I was about to make this exact comment but you beat me to it
30 years of hardcore gaming under my belt. Have never once been tempted to hurt another person or living thing. I did hit and kill a cat with my car two years ago, but i pulled over and cried for about twenty minutes.
My dad, who adores DOOM, Mortal Kombat and many violent games, was maddeningly depressed days after he THOUGHT he ran over a tortoise.
I even played Mortal Kombat when I was 4-6.
Can you even fit a belt?
thats sad
+TheDude 30 years of gaming , respect !
17 years of gaming im still sane
The Windows port of Doom is the reason Windows became the dominant operating system.
How did no one see you?
@@JimmehRulez I'm literally the first like, and he wrote it a year ago, haha.
Nah. Win95 was huge by the time Doom95 came out.
@@tylerlondon5052 cause of plug n play. But it grew millions of more households after doom 95
“I used DOOM to release stress from GETTING BULLIED” oh, it’s DOOM’s fault
@The dude Osama was an extreme mario fan
Ok den.
@@oiiacatremix how
Watch out, I'd played doom a lot.
Yea lets just ignore the bullying because it hAd to be the video games
Actually, Harris never developed the pictured WAD of Columbine High School. That WAD was made by another third party. The claim that Harris _ever_ recreated Columbine High School is heavily disputed and barely substantiated.
So there was ANOTHER guy that wanted to shoot up columbine?
L1V3 ...no? The WAD was almost certainly made after the shooting happened.
GravityFallout it was most likely a joke
Liakk Does Stuff I can never tell with how fucking retarded people are nowadays
@@LiakkDoesStuff a very tasteless one at that, and I say that as a fan of the Postal franchise. I can give games like Postal or Hatred a pass because they’re so stupid and are largely not based on real events, but making a game based on one of America’s most shocking atrocities is just abhorrent. It’s the same issue I have with JFK Reloaded, a literal JFK assassination simulator. It’s simply a line in gaming I will not cross.
maybe raise your kids better and pay attention to their mental health instead of drinking beer and watching tv
Nah, to much complicated, beter put the fault on video games.
+toríbio Gubert hahyeag
Nah it's "obvious" video games are to blame lol
_ Bug while I agree with what you say I don't think he's the reason hitler existed
+_ Bug hitler rose to power because the people of germany were in turmoil because of the treaty of versailles. he was racist for many reasons, the main being the loss of WW1. he never played doom and violent games, they didn't exist.
hitler's mom died of cancer, and his dad died of lung hemorrhage.
he had alot of shit in his life and he more than likely went fucking nuts because of it.
no, he's not the reason for why hitler existed.
Real problem: bullying and shit parenting
Scapegoat: a freaking video game
The news stations aren't wrong, ever since I played tetris I've had an unnatural urge to kill
Yeah, ever since i started hanging out with Isabelle in animal crossing, ive had an constant urge to murder someone
and ever since i played elmo’s number journey my body count has quadrupled
Them blocks man, they get ya
dude was playing super mario and now i have basically made the holocaust 2
Yo I was playing spongebob battle for bikini bottom and I really wanted to start world war 3
Blaming shit on a game when the root of the problem was bullying.
rene kenshin Agreed.
No, lots of people get bullied and don't go on rampages. The problem is mental illness and the lack of early intervention
+Jayo Caine You're kidding right, this is not the only case where the bullied kills the bully. Years of getting abused makes you crazy, not all humans are the same, some can just tolerate it. Some just commit suicide instead...
Exactly thanks for proving my point, the mentally ill can't tolerate it and go on rampages. Early intervention is key in these situations, boys will be boys bullying is part of our nature. In the office, in the school yard, out in the field in the military. It always has and always will be a staple trademark of male hormones. Yes it sucks, but it's nature you can't and shouldn't prevent it. Look at the wild, there's Alphas and Betas it's a key component to social hierarchies.
Without bullying we wouldn't have some amazing inventions and human beings. Some of the most amazing and creative minds have come to surface just to spite the people who bullied them. Ever hear of the under-dog syndrome? Hell i'm sure one of your favorite videogames was created by a nerd who was made fun of, you get alot of time to cultivate your skills when you're not out invited to all the cool kid parties.
Jayo Caine I am guessing you are a bully
Kid: gets bullied
Parents: calm
Kid: ends up with psycological trauma and stress because of bullying and neglective parents
Parents: calm
Kid: does any kind of act of violence
Parents: *_Gaem_*
your pfp is amazing
Me : YOU ARE SOOOOOOO WRONG
WHERE IS MY BELT IM GONNA BEAT UP SOME BAD PARENTS
Been playing DOOM and other violent video games to relieve stress and you don't see me hurting anyone.
Some people don't know the difference between a video game and reality. The problem is not the games it's the people.
I would play river city ransom
I play doom
I played God of War
It's always been the people
coondogtheman1234 exactly. That's the whole point of the first amendment
doom
doom2
doom3
doom
doom 0
doom -1
doom -2
doom -3
SpecialTBA und Final DOOM
doom
doom7
doom8
doom9
nah its more like
doom
doom2
finaldoom
doom64
doom
Nah bruh
Doom
Doom2
Final Doom
Doom 64
Just Doom
Chex quest 4
Put 9 million swastikas in Wolf3D, and no one bats an eye.
Put just 1 swastika in Doom, and everybody will lose their minds.
there was a lot of contriversie with wolfistein due to the swastichas but the game found a way around it buy saying its a ww2 sim
not true read the articles posted in the time the game was published.
u say just Germany it hit almost of 50 countries with controversy
Technically you did say 'just Germany' because you never stated any other countries.
btw why has this argument gone on for a month
i never said anything about other games wtf and damn i said this has been going on for a month now stfu and let me back to work
Oh yea blame the game not the bullying THAT HE EVEN TALKED ABOUT
He's still a pethetic loser though
4:38 *C E E T M A R P*
no
*E C E E T M A R P*
eCE10+ET
MAoRP
Y E E T
Damn, you beat me to it.
3:46-3:47 _"....at the time, considered the first realistic simulations that..."_
As johnny unrealistically uppercuts Raiden's head off.
It annoys me that people blame video games and other kinds of media for shootings and such but fail to address the mental stress that was being put on the boy by the bullying in school which was the root cause of their feelings.
agreed...
And the fact that it's so easy for kids to get guns.
+Blaze They even know about and admit the fact that the boys played it to escape from being outcasts, but they refuse to admit the fact that being outcasts was the reason they shot people.
+Blaze Incorrect. The book Columbine, written by Dave Cullen, digs deep into the rumor that these boys were bullied. It is not true. They were, in fact, bullies themselves and sociopaths. FBI profilers Cullen interviewed confirmed this. If the kids had not actually performed this tragic act, more than likely they would have ended up on the FBI's Most Wanted List.
+GuardianR105 Indeed. I do not believe that they did this because of the video game Doom inspired them, I instead believe that they were mentally disturbed individuals that had an obsession with the game because it allowed them to do things that they wished to do, and when the game wasn't enough they actually did it
"Movies don't create killers. Movies make killers more creative."
Haha.
That is absolutly true omfg
+Mr. Anderson oh yeah. I forgot about that ^^'
They also give them a release valve to let off steam. With development and adoption of violent games, violent crimes paradoxically dropped. That is why Germany is not banning violent games anymore.
+D3w10n release "Valve" to let off "steam" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Wait! You can play Doom 3 on the Oculus?
The brown pants and heavy expense would be worth it
+rageagainsttheturnip hahah
+ohnickel Where do I get the original Doom online without it being on a torrent site?
+Lidge1994 Steam
Only The Dankest Of Memes
I said the ORIGINAL
Not a remake, remaster or otherwise changed but the actual shareware from the days gone by
Lidge1994 you can't then but the remakes only add in a fourth chapter but the first 3 remain untouched
If you think about Bobby Prince is a mad genius. He was full blown lawyer before choosing to pursue his career in music and as a result he knew perfectly how much sampling of music he was allowed to do before he could get into actual legal trouble.
Playing Doom has turned me into a weapons expert without ever holding a weapon. Isn't it amazing how moving a mouse perfectly simulates every weapon imaginable?
My commander told me that in all his career, he has never seen a new recruit fire a rocket launcher by holding it between his legs, let alone propelling himself up by shooting at the ground while jumping.
Bruh 6 years ago and legit has no likes like wtf
@@rimlessbeef6450 yea its crazy
@@xD-Hi I luv doom
@@xD-Hi am playing half life rn tho
@@rimlessbeef6450 I'm designing half life levels of my high school
it's true
since playing farmville my real-life allotment has yielded bumper crops!
Am I the only one who still hears him say "My name is Nipple. Ohnipple." in his intro every time?
nope
Now I do... DAMN YOU!
+ChromaLuke *OHNIPPLE* JESUS HALP ME
I CAN NEVER UNHEAR.
+King The Son From Gabencity Don't be an idiot. Cancer is an illness, it's not a game.
“I changed the swastika out of the game because people were upset that an evil symbol was in a kids game” “ I removed the swastika out of doom for the same reason”
It’s official doom is a children’s game
Sunset Cranberry The kid’s game was Commander Keen
Sunset Cranberry heck yeah
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 pretty sure it’s wolfenstein
The like button gave me absolutely fucking nothing.
It gave you something to type about in the comment section.
+BetterTitles true, true. I don't even write in comments much XD
The fact that 2 idiots want to start a shoot in school just because they got bullied, isn't fault of the game, but parents should blame theirselfs to not know that their children are suffering abuse and bullying because of assholes in school, the game is just a product that give us joy and a good time, not a teacher neither a person you can blame of the actions you did or perform.
Olbed Hayak Asimov
Exactly. Also maybe it's the mental state of the kid but those of course are never checked and it's the fault of the game that's complete BULLSHIT. When you shoot up 10 kids in a school, clearly you have a LOST screw in your head that needs to be FIXED it's not the FAULT of a fucking VIDEO GAME!!! I have countless friends and know countless people who played "violent video games" and are the nicest people I've MET. I played god of war when I was 9 but i grew up fine, why didn't i start stabbing people then?! That whole argument is complete BS by now and whoever uses it needs to be fucking executed!
MLG anime tits
I agree with all you said (Except the part of execution of course '^_^ ), neither developers of videogames, movies or any kind of media should be stopped by censorship bullshit or SJWs who thinks that their opinión is important, because they are enough keyboard Warriors to blame the work and sacrifice of a person who love and enjoys to make such a masterpieces just because over what they think is correct. Because obviusly people with an education are smart enough to not perform such horrible actions if they know that they are bad of course (Unless they are phsycos, which in all case they should be watched by their parents already to watch out for his mental state), clearly parents are responsable of what their children watch, hear and or play.
Olbed Hayak Asimov
Yeah i know. Im not a violent person at all, but seriously every time a see a person who uses this argument i wanna fucking stick a grenade in his fucking throat and force him to swallow it until it explodes in hes stomach obliterating him and causing all of his guts to slowly drop out of the holes in his body and then shoving them up his butthole!!!
Wouldn't say idiots, no one helped them, one of them had severe mental issues and abuse problems.
You'd be surprised with what kids then could keep from thier parents, bullying isn't the sort of thing they would tell there parents of (all to often that is) and as a result sometimes it did build to a head like that.
The swastika was removed from Doom because it's a kid friendly game? X'D
Yeah, they will TOTALLY enjoy being killed by a 15 foot demon killing machine that will rip your head off!
XD
Commander Keen was the "kid friendly" game mentioned, not Doom.
D1V15OR it was not takking about doom they where appearing two different games that removed something for the same reason
D1V15OR I thought the changed one was a swastica
I played Doom, Wolfenstein and watched Happy Tree Friends when I was in Kindergarten and I turned out fine.
Doom or DooM?
DOOM.
dOOm
D00M but ok
DooM
D∞
M
D()()M
Doom is the best thing ever created!
M. Swaiti666
Wolfenstein 3D: *I Sleep*
Doom(1993): *REAL SHIT?*
What about food
@@personpacman7439 doom food
Now that's orgasmic
That's debat- *JK ITS THE BEST*
You like doom and black metal, noice 👌🏼
Scumbag parents: Try to sue id software because without the game it wouldn't have happened. Don't try to sue the maker or provider of the weapons used by shooter.
chomage No the school, them 2 got bullied
Then sue ford or Chevy for the car accidents and bud for the drunk drivers.
Not the maker the provider if someone made a bow and someone bought it and someone stole it from the guy who bought it what do the guy have to do with that
Brian G bullying happens in every school, regardless. My boyfriend was bullied in elementary school until he stood up for himself and showed them who's the boss. Not all kids can do it and having an intervention with the bully's parents will suffice. However the main cause of the Columbine, and every other school shootings throughout the years, is medications related to mental illness. When you are on anti-depressants, you dont feel anything. Adding that with the torment happening at school or home and you will have a disaster that is bound to happen.
now this is exactly why you dont take anti-depressents. learn to cope with it or get help from a professional or let your friends or family help you. hell when i get stressed out i play doom. instead of hurting people irl i kill demons and let the thrill cheer me up.
Liking this video gave me a false promise
乁〳 ❛ д ❛ 〵ㄏ
+ohnickel the like button gave me a boner
Try JJBA Strange Facts
luca makharashvili likeing the video give me a dead pet
liking the video gave me aids
I just want to point out that most psychiatric facilities were abolished during 60s-80s in America. Letting loose the crazy out into the world.
Prime age for parents and their psychopathic kids.
hitting the like button gave me an empty feeling inside and I have since quit my job and have begun my search for enlightenment.
I had been playing video games for seventeen years before I had any formal firearms training, I leaned more in one minute of my first pistol course then I did in seventeen years of video games. The kid who hit 8 people with 8 bullets was most likely in a crowded area where it was hard to miss.
Little correction: CS:GO (at minute 5:29) is not censored in Germany.
CS 1.6 however was. "Killed" enemies just sat down and shooked their heads. It was the same in Half Life, when you shot one of the scientists or guards.
But like said in the video, the authority in Germany got loose over the last years on this topic.
00:00 for a second there I thought it said , "My name is Nipple , OhNipple."
Theodore V. Adanza lol
I heard laurel.
So, is this a video about weird doom facts or about school shootings? Cause if I want to look at school shootings I can just go to other pages.
It's weird they say games train people in the use of a firearm. The main issue is a gun is so simple in design a child simply needs to put two and two together and you figured out how to use one. A gun is pretty much a point and click weapon. I fired a .44 magnum before and shot the target with little issue. It's not very intelligent to say something so simple can only be learned from a videogame. Everyone understands how to stab someone. A videogame doesn't need to give you a life tutorial to figure out pointy thing+neck=death
Exactly
+Bumbleness Supreme Brady Yea, and as weapons technology is 8ecoming even more refined, recoil is 8ecoming less of an issue to land consecutive shots with semi-automatic weapons. I have an AR-15 made in 2014, its really fun to shoot as its so smooth while delivering a satisfying punch, I have no issue dumping the 30rnd mag under a minute while keeping it on target at ranges of 80m or more, with around a 90% accuracy its honestly so easy to do its a little frightening the the implic8tions that this weapon is just readily availia8le to most anyone. Though there is one thing, firing an actual weapon is not at all like in a video game still, thats simply false, 8ut I would say that may8e, a video game can condition a mind to make quicker, and more precise decisions in a short amount of time, 8ut this learned skill can 8e applied to anything, and honestly, I think more physical "games" like anything with a 8all, or even just tag, would have a similar effect when played competitively. Games in general, not just video games, have the capacity to teach soldier how to fight effectively.
well that depends on all three of your guys percepective. yeah, call of duty teaches you jack shit on weapon handling, but it trickles real knowledge here and there. hold your breath to stabilize your cross hair on targets to small to account for sway, your focus should be on the sights not the target a blurry target can still be hit as long as your sights are aligned, and laying flat, or crouched should increase accuracy. these basic tennets of shooting are what your first taught. it doesnt tell you to pull the trigger straight back with middle of the last segment of your index finger, but we all cant be winners. but my main point is the military advantage of non-military based games. golf can help you account for windspeed affecting bullet curve and drop, something a marksmen with a PhD learns.
Theres also the benefit of stratedgy and war games that allow people to understand unit loss, and officer positions. its all about what someone has taken away it. sort of like books, they say they can teach everything, but most people just read fantasy and think what their hero does is real and thats what they want to do.
I saw a video where a guy fired a huge revolver and the gun smacked him in the face cuz of the recoil. Than he threw it on the ground and ran away
You're lying, I would understand you first time shooting a 9mm, 45 ACP etc. But if you were to shoot a .44 magnum, you will get knocked right in the face.
I was sure one of the facts would be that it wasn't a 3D game but a clever way of rendering a 2D top down shooter using vertical pixel columns sized to give the illusion of depth.
actualy I think that one was the NES version
It wasnt 3D, it wasnt 2D, IT WAS 2.5D
.
@Michael Persico yeah but the 2D sprites made it a 2.5D game
Been playing DOOM since 1995, when I was 5 and learned how to boot it up in DoS. Never shot up anyone or anything besides clay pigeons and paper targets.
Same 💯
Kid: Getting BULLIED at school to the point that the only emotions they feel are anger and sadness ,also suffering from depression.
Parents: iT'S tHe vIDeO GamES!!!
Hitting the like button gave me cancer
(=ಠ ل͟ ಠ=)
It gave me poop.
It gave me a GoPro
Don't worry, we have doctors how just found a cure for it!
BlastACow no it didn't
Me who plays doom regularly: let me try to get stuff done as peacefully as possible
Doom does not cause violent behaviour. Most people can readily differentiate between Doom and reality. Those who can’t have major psychological issues already, usually personality disorders, developed by genetic predispositions and upbringing/childhood issues.
Thank god they through out the 2011 version of Doom 4, the one we have now is amazing.
Came here for neat Doom trivia, got a bunch of anti-violent-videogame drivel.
Fun Fact. Every since the release of Doom (the first extremely popular violent game) there has been a VERY large decline of violent crime in the U.S. So while video games have gotten increasingly more violent and crazy, the opposite is happening in the real world. Seriously, look at the statistics, it's pretty crazy. While this doesn't prove that violent games are helping lower real world violence, to say it's increasing it is crazy talk without some kind of study.
+MikeJRthe2nd Actually, if you look at gun violence statistics since the 70s, this point in the graph is the lowest it's ever been. Yet every media outlet is flooded with these horrible "gun nuts" that must be stopped. Just proves there's a large section of easily lead morons that the government likes to use to distract from real issues.
+James Gibson The internet does three things: Helps you learn about guns and gun safety. OR Hundreds shut you down on any sane gun forum just for not having eye protection. OR Helps you want like weekendgunnit on reddit where people just joke with shit they find or do.
is that why you yanks had 390 shootings last year?
There are a lot of factors that could be behind the decrease of homicides: stricter profiling, removal of lead from gasoline, etc. To say that gaming has an impact is hard to judge as no studies have been conducted. It's even harder to do so as Congress continues to object to funding said studies.
Regardless of whether it does or does not, legislating any form of media be banned or edited because it's violent or hate speech is ethically wrong.
Inferno Memes and Lets plays Reason why? no. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Besides, the numbers have been going down on the larger scale. Lots of factors, sure. These imbeciles like to blame just one thing though. That's my problem with it. It's ridiculous reasoning followed by specious reasoning and then stripped to be politically correct. Result? One big lump of stupid.
The actual reason John Romero's Door was chopped down was that John had to go to the bathroom, grabbed the door knob, only to have it come apart in his hand, upon which he called Carmack's office and told him to chop the door down as he was actually trapped. According to Carmack they actually had a good excuse to use the battle axe in his office as they had griped about the crappy office attire on a few occasions. :)
Oh damn I remember playing Doom in the upstairs office with the lights out because I wasn't supposed to be playing it, and getting scared shitless coming around the corner to some imp or face-rending demon. hah!
+oversoul haha those were the days
yea man, thanks for the video.
+oversoul no problem thank you for watching!
Liking the vid gave me the realisation that I was wasting my life
I've been pronoucing id Software wrong my entire life O.o
Rey Nemaattori Hahahah. Have you never picked up a psychology book, boi
Spent my childhood playing their games, calling them I.D... Didn't learn the truth until I was around 25...
@@TheOneDono no he pronounces it right but he did pronounce klebolds name wrong.
As a German, I always though it was supposed to be prounounced winking over to "idea" software, as in: "We create so great games nobody ever saw before". When I heard it's "idd" I was like "Lame!"
Have you ever wondered were your dad went?
Another fact you didn't mention was that the Nightmare! skill level was added because it was felt that Ultra Violence was too easy. Furthermore it was one of the first skill levels to not be fully playtested so there was no guarantee that it was actually possible. John Romero was actually shocked when the first NM Speed movie demos of Doom II were released
Gamers:*does something*
Everybody: wait that's illegal
4:37 CEET MARP
I played Doom when I was 4, and I still love playing it. I grew up to be a nice Christian girl. Video games don't cause problems unless you allow it to.
+douglas “Ansury” wahid No. lol
+KaB Art Studio You don't really have control of your mind when you grow up (adults around you do). It's everything that surrounds you. One game, probably won't cause any problems but if you play it for years or you play a lot of games like that for years when you grow up + plus your parents don't put any interest in you you'll become a very bad person.
+3tjn3 I partly agree. I did play Doom quite a bit. Especially after my dad died when I was just 9 years old. He use to play it with me all the time. It was good memories I had with him, and it's always been one of my favorite games. I was also blessed with wonderful parents who taught me right from wrong. They taught me the difference of fantasy and reality instead of depriving me from video games out of fear that I might do bad things because of games.
That's hilarious John Romero locked himself in his office so he could play doom fucking legend
I love the whole shareware thing, it’s just-
Midway: “Oh shit our bad, we’ll make the game less gorey.”
Sega: “Sorry, we’ll drop our game entirely.”
ID, shoveling out Doom for free and encouraging everyone to play and modify it however the hell they want: “Smells like a little bitch in here-“
The like button gave me a lifetime supply of promises left unfulfilled. *tear*
+Sire D491428 : ' (
Oh, and 4 tickets to cpt America civil war.
In Germany gore, brutality and "2ww signs" are handled like sexusl content in the USA; they will be censored.
+The Treacherous Disciplin In Australia it's 100 times worse, anything more violent than a handshake is banned and anything that shows more than an exposed ankle is too sexual and is banned.
*****
Sydney boyo
+Jrock420blam Stop being a drama queen and spewing such bullshit kthxbai. Regards from Melbourne.
Azariachan
You are obviously too young to know better, I almost envy your ignorance.
+Jrock420blam you have never watched the Underbelly series obviously...
I'm going to have to step in and say:
Eric Harris nor Dylan ever made a Columbine HighSchool mod/map for the game. There is however a few versions floating around of a mod someone made of Columbine (Columbine.wad) massacre... but this was years after. Eric DID make some doom maps but not very many.
Left Hand Path The one I played was “Deathmatching in Bricks!” It’s actually pretty good.
is mayonaise an instrument?
+Frollzor can you make a video playing mayonnaise?
+Mack Whitaker the mayones guitars are so fucking expensive
+Yoalli Ehecatl Really? I bought one yesterday for 56€! Pretty good for where I live
No Patrick.
+Mack Whitaker , No, Patrick, mayonnaise is not an instrument.
the like button gave me a small loan of a million dollars.
Doom: exists
Parents: I want every News sorce to fire on that man
hi me from a year ago
your meme was sort of funny
It was funny ngl :D
The fact about Doom's music being similar to others songs and their creators not taking legal action made me smile. If I made a good song and it was used in a game or the game had a song heavily inspired by my song I would be ok with it as long as the game turned out good. Also censorship in video games sucks, I feel bad for the people with strict censorship laws
I love doom, had no idea there was such controversy behind it
+Chastastic Gaming hope you enjoyed the video Chastastic! : )
You do great videos man!
I know. I had no idea the idiots responsible for the Columbine shooting were inspired by Doom 😑
The Columbine shooting happened as a result of an idiot getting angry and stressed out from bullying until it reached a boiling point. It would've happened regardless if he played Doom or not. Hell, the shooting probably would've happened sooner if he DIDN'T play Doom, as he wouldn't have a way to vent.
i have been playing FPS games for along time and doom with quake was my childhood but i never felt like killing someone xD
4:38 “ceet marp”
Parents: Doom is making kids violent!!!!
DoomGuy: *reloads shotgun with religious intent"
You're fight demons in hell and everyone gets pissy over a simple symbol?
Ugh.
Smash cut! Tear! Arrrrrh doom guy just like to blast whatever comes! He don't give a shit! He is doom guy you god damn losers. Danny d doom? 😂😂
blueblur-trash yes the ‘symbol’ is associated with nazis
@@mrmrmeace8715 you're shooting SS officers whoopty fucking do
The like button gave me an early copy of DOOM 4.
It's cristmas today, I hit the like, and got a new computer!
The fact that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were bullied can be disputed but one things for sure: bullying was not the only reason why the columbine shooting happened that day. The truth is is that Eric Harris was an unstable teenager with psychopath tendencies whereas Klebold was a depressive suicidal. Eric pretty much groomed Dylan into the shooting posing it as a way of committing suicide while “righting wrongs” along the way.
Doom’s involvement in the cause of the shootings is slim to none. The personality traits and the environment which the two shooters grew up in are much more of an explanation as to why the shooting took place.
The whole "they made a columbine level" is not confirmed so I wouldn't go around saying it's real. He did make levels, but none of them are of CHS to anyone's knowledge. The only evidence of its creation is a small interview of someone claiming to have played it. Just one person. Right after the shooting, people swarmed his site and took whatever they could; no one found any doom level looking anything like CHS.
The like button gave me a gun ▄︻̷̿┻̿═━一
dude swastika is not an evil symbol go check it from Wiki
It was turned evil due to Natzis
Ravioli Ravioli Give Me The Formeoli Wrong, they took the symbol from religions like Buddhism and Taoism and turned it slightly looking crooked. So that became to symbol for them.
Ravioli Ravioli Give Me The Formeoli But you are partially Correct, it was turned evil.
Why are we still here, just to suffer? Not really, the swastika still represented the same thing like on the past about the sun or some shit.
HG DooM Again the swastika long existed before buddhaism look it up.
This video was so good, it feels like a history of doom type of video.
Yeah, hitting A on a controller in something's general direction is practically military training, yeah, okay.
I dont think you understand the consept he was talking about
idiot
+ninetaledMK They literally talk about the Colonel literally saying that games help people use firearms accurately... which is horseshit if you're just using something like a SNES controller for DOOM. That's not going to help you become a marksman or trained firearm user in real life, yet the Colonel MORE than implied it did... which is crap.
+Deathbrewer Did you see the crazy eyes on that guy? Nightmare fuel... just imagine that as your shrink...
+Deathbrewer i don't think you were listening. He said they were playing the games to get used to quick decisions and to pull the trigger almost instantly. Not to train them with weapons.
4:38
No one really takes the ESRB seriously anymore, primarily because they were created in a time when video games were blamed for everything, but also because they have bad standards for ratings. I found Doom 2 on Steam, and it was rated M! I understand why, but today it makes no sense! Halo is more gory than it and its rating was downgraded to T!
Hahaha! Even the military approves of Doom!
+Chris Slitas haha true
Releasing Doom's first episode as freely distributable shareware was not some sort of "nuclear option" in response to the possibility of regulatory action. It was just a standard marketing practice for PC games at the time.
The like button gave me DETERMINATION.
The like button gave me cancer.
Not illegally available to the german public*
My dad played this even before it was legal... so...
+SWAGLER_420
str8 up gangsta
+SWAGLER_420 THE OG DAD DON'T NEED NO RULAS
+Gavin Wallace (Spy Crab) RULERS ARE FOR PAPER USERS, AMIRITE?
SWAGLER_420 YEAH!
ohhhh man! i just love ID Software so much and aaaaaaallll of their games... Commander Keen, Doom, Quake, Rage... hmmm which one i forgot?
ahhh yes wolfenstein offcourse
Robert Sea cool dude the only comment here that matters
"On the 30th of January 2018, John Romero confirmed that commander keen is the father of doom guy, and that B.J Blazkowicz, is the great grandfather of doom guy, and great great great grandfather in another timeline".
I saw Rage in a pawn shop a while back and debated whether to buy it or not. I didnt get it because I wasnt sure I'd like it.
About the Composer - Bobby Prince - he was a lawyer, too. Don't know if you guys knew that. Anyway, he figured he knew exactly how closely he could copy those songs without getting sued. And since he never got sued, genius. And Doom 1 and 2 are some of the greatest collective soundtracks ever. So. Win.
Most of my thoughts are around my games, its one of the few things I've always done, love and play whenever I have free time, or not :) - but NEVER have I ever thought to shoot up my school, I was bullied at school for years, as well as horrible stress about exams for the last few years - the games I grew up with are considerably more gruesome than old school doom, I just wonder the differences between me and those shooters at No. 10...
You're not a fucking psychopath.
The like button gave me the BFF-9000 AWESOME
you mean a BFG 9000?
DerSchoermbro yes..........stupid IPhone autocorrect
+Patrick Doolin There is also a edit button...
it gave you a Best Friend Forever-9000?AWESOME!
the like button gave me "determination"
+The Creative Siberian Husky lol
its pronounced DETERMINATION
its pronounced "undertale is dead"
Let’s kick this off with number one. The Colom-
the like button gave me a free copy of doom.
it gave me a blue thumbs up instead of a gray thumbs up
The like button got me pizza!!!!!!
I genuinely miss these types of videos
I can't believe you gave in
I got a rock.
Cutting the tie as always you mean a sqidward
Charlie Brown reference confirmed.
It gave me mortal kombat
x?
th-cam.com/video/b5MxdR4RpB4/w-d-xo.html
speak english please
Hahahahahahahaha I only got it in the end good one hahahaha
The dislike button gave me mortal kombat too.
Also, liking gave me DOOM 2016.
the idea you could shoot better than any trained gunman from playing a game where the gun is always perfectly level vertical aiming is automatic horizontal aiming is generous there's zero recoil infinite stamina and damn near infinite ammo is I freely admit absurd in the highest degree possible
+Xander Patten that was never the idea behind using doom to train soldiers. the video even explains it. it's not about aiming/shooting, it's about making the same decisions over and over again in quick succession, without loosing focus. it was more of a psychological training than a mechanical.
+BoBBy Ray The video clearly says that one of the school shooters was very good at shooting accurately without training, which they attributed to playing Doom.
Makes no sense that a game that doesn't require a lot of aiming is supposed to have taught him that.
Shareware was how they distributed earlier games not just a trick used with Doom.
i clicked the like button i got happy :)
+3dummies ah yeah!
+3dummies Happy AF
i got herpies
Mom can I buy Doom?
What is Doom?
Is a game created by the devs from commander keen.
Oh, that family friendly game, yes you can buy it. It OBVIOUSLY itsn't going to
be violent. ID is such a good team making family friendly games.
Hehehe
11:33 Instructions unclear, clicked dislike.
Did it take away something
The first fact pissed me off, that dumbass was only using my game as an excuse for his fucked up train of thought! He asked me, video games don't cause violence, violence causes violence.