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I liked this video because you gave extensive description of the crew resource management issues that caused the crash. Essentially, overriding a lot of the safety features that were installed in light of the BAC 1-11 prototype crash was a huge contributing factor in this tragedy.
I REALLY enjoyed how you teased the next episode at the end! Not always possible to link incidents, but I really hope you do more of that moving forward. 😁
What is the other accident? The only other 2 I know are lockerbie in 1988 and british midland a few weeks later in 1989, and this is my own country! lol. If there were any more other than that involving full size airliners, that would be interesting to know about. I pretty sure we haven't had any more major airliner crashes on british soil since 1989 which is an incredible record (unless someone wants to correct me?)
Back in the day, I flew on that first flight, a Trident, to use Autoland. The Captain, calmly, and in an understated British way, said, welcome to London Heathrow Airport. I am pleased to announce that this beautiful aircraft just landed itself...
That must have been awesome. I live in the US so the only British planes I ever encountered were BAE146 and concorde but I miss the trident, bac111, etc
BA used to announce "this was an autolanding" for quite a while until it either got boring or the jobsworths at BA thought it might upset the nervous...
We DID have many manufacturers who designed and built some of the most beautiful and technologically advanced aircraft in history but, unfortunately for us, Boeing don't like competition and they did and still do, everything they can to get rid of its competition. 🇬🇧✌️
@@gooner72 Not everything. They still maintain a culture of profit over safety and deliver unsafe aircraft. They subcontract everything (including quality control). Notice the focus on the manufacturers of the 737 door plug? They have found a way to make safety the responsibility of others. We still don't know what happened, but that's Boeing's current business model. Mark my words - the 787 Dreamliner is next. I believe it's the most widely subcontracted aircraft in the world, and no one has the ability to oversee all of its quality control, least of all the FAA. It's a cheap and profitable way to make a plane, and a great way to avoid responsibility when Boeing can say they didn't manufacture the part that failed.
@@gooner72 Boeing built better aircrafts, thats why they outsold the competition. Nobody forced anyone to buy 727s, they bought them because they were the superior aircraft. And they made money. They built 1,832 of them! Everybody, including Airbus, outsources aspects of an aircrafts construction. eg: Pratt & Whitney makes the engines for the 727, not Boeing. The 737-max was perfectly well built, but the carriers weren't training their pilots the right way to handle the new safety systems. Its the carriers responsibility to follow procedures correctly. After all, Boeings not in the airline business, they're in the airplane building business. So stop hating on Boeing. The De Havilland Comet exploded in midair on a pretty much regular basis. Why? Because it was poorly designed, perhaps by the same guys who designed the Jaguars electrical systems back in the 60s. It also got rushed forward prematurely, unlike the 707, DC-8, and Convair-880.
Depending on just how worked up the captain got it's quite possible that he was still caught up in the argument which distracted him. I remember in an old job, a manager who had it in for me called me into the building as I was leaving to attend a meeting, just to chew me out over a non-issue. I was furious replaying the incident over and over in my head, so much so that I didn't notice a stop sign and almost crashed.
I have read other accounts of this disaster and one of them said that a witness overhearing the argument stated that it was among the most violent outbursts he had ever heard, or something to that effect. As you alluded to, something like that does not just go away in a short period of time, and definitely affects your normal thought processes and concentration.
@johnstudd4245 and in that situation if his crewmates noticed him making a mistake thry might have been afraid to speak up, or he could have reacted with anger to being warned instead of listening to them.
As a long distance truck driver I can confirm that misunderstanding and quarrels can indeed affect your ability to control your truck and end up making mistakes which you wouldn't normally do. I'm relieved that near misses helped me through these rare occasions and my lucky escapades certainly warned me of the unforeseen hazards of my job. Pity about this incident though.
I remember that in 1980 I was a senior manager with a major American company when we had a presentation on this accident. There are a couple of points that I remember being mentioned. The first one was that there was a relief pilot sitting towards the rear of the passenger cabin, who upon realising what was happening as regards the stall he apparently ran the whole length of the aircraft in an attempt to assist. His body was found near or in the cockpit. On a more personal level, there was a party of very senior surgeons from Scotland who were on the flight attending a conference in Brussels. The cream of Scottish surgeons was wiped out that afternoon.
The accident had a similar impact in Ireland. Due to the cancellation of the direct flight from Dublin to Brussels that day, some passengers were rerouted to Heathrow and onto the fatal flight. Among the Irish victims were almost the entire senior staff of the Confederation of Irish Industry, also on their way to a conference in Brussels.
Hello Ian, I think the relief pilot (Captain Collins) was in the jump seat in the cockpit. His position over the centre console in the wreckage was thought by some to suggest that he tried to intervene. He was a qualified Trident pilot who was currently flying Viscounts.
Here I am as a retired airline Captain and I’m still learning something new. I was not familiar with the Trident. I was impressed by the fact that it was the first auto land certified airliner and it had that style yoke which I first encountered in the Embraer Brasilia. The moving map display was also a surprise.
It was an advanced plane for its day. I flew in one several times as a passenger. It was comfortable and fast by today’s standards. I got to experience its auto-land capability flying into Heathrow once. I couldn’t see the ground until it was over the runway and about to land. No other aircraft was moving in or out of Heathrow that day.
I was a F/A and used to fly 727-100s and 200s. DC-8s and DC-10s, 747SPs, and 707s. The 727 100's tail stairs saved DB Cooper and an inflight airflow lock was installed. I just saw another clip after a failed take-off due to flaps never deployed and the Capt said on a following flight "To all flap watchers, they are set to xxxx". Another safety feature on checklists further down in many cases but initiated early in some accidents was the APU and TOGO for an engine failure or bird strike. They always seem to come up on a check list anyhow but if one already experienced a failure sequence check list the safer results showed them engaged before the checklists are even retrieved. I had lost an engine on a DC-8 so I knew when our 767 had lost an engine after takeoff. #1 was burning the fuel in the lines left after shutdown and usually burnout but I called the C/P in front of the Pax watching the flames and asked how long should we wait to fire the engine's fire suppression that only works once and won't douse fuel. "2 minutes" was the instruction. mentourspilot.com on TH-cam is an excellent source for flight accident reviews and a learning experience for me.
Suppose a commercial carrier had to land at an an alternate with too short of a runway to take off from after safely landing. Pax are safe and rerouted via regional prop jets but the commercial jet when grounded is losing money. Can a jet with reverse thrusters on at the runway start with blocks in back of the tires achieve enough thrust when the buckets are removed? With no pax and a light fuel load to a nearby airport would a possible slingshot boost be feasible?
@@dthomas9230 It would depend on the weight whether the aircraft had enough runway to take off safely. If it couldn’t, then it would have to be taken apart and trucked out. There have been cases where this has happened. As far as this boost you are talking about, no.
@@ual737ret I saw a cable launch booster for aircraft on carriers and now rockets in place of solid booster initiation so the rocket is already flying when the propellant ignites with more thrust as less weight from the solid fuel tank. Cable shooting a commercial plane has its own issues unless it had a hook or planned on flying with the nose gear down once it is used for cable launch. If the runway was like CLT on a mountain top you're already airborne at the end of the runway. Taking the wings off and cargo IS best. But, running the numbers with thrust at full before releasing brakes and the reverse thrusters I thought the engine would require less time to reach full speed, (planes don't burn rubber like dragsters, but powering up and timing how long to take off speed from initial Take off roll would be an interesting exercise with various configurations. Plus, if a 40 mph headwind was planned in 24 hours, would they take the wings off? Thanks for the reply.
I lived near Staines as a child when this happened. It caused traffic chaos for days. The wreckage seemed to be there for ages, and long afterwards it was a horrible reminder each time we drove past. Thanks for covering this one.
I lived in Stanwell, 9 years old, mad on aeroplanes. Remember driving with parents past the crash scene next to the reservoir on many occasions. Pure luck it did not crash into populated areas and kill many more people on the ground..
I lived quite nearby, I was 7 when it happened, I vaguely remember the traffic, as the A316 to M3 wasn't a dual carriageway at that point, it was public trying to get there to see the crash site.
I too saw the wreckage, a week later, As I took the rail air link bus from Woking to Heathrow. Not something you want to see on the way to catch a flight.
That map thing was pretty interesting. GPS was years away when the Trident was developed. The only way that I could imagine that function working is that the aircraft used dead reckoning to figure out where it was. If it knew what direction it was going and how fast it was going (ground speed not airspeed) then the aircraft's computer could figure out where the plane was. This is similar to how early missile guidance systems would work.
This is an excellent reconstruction. I also reviewed the summary on Wikipedia, with a special interest as to the patient's coronary disease, or what I suppose they were referring to as coronary disease. Speaking as a cardiologist, there was no way anyone could tell whether the captain was having any chest pain or any other effects from this coronary disease at the time of the accident unless there was clear evidence on the autopsy that he had suffered an actual acute heart attack, which I did not see any report of. Apparently he had not complained of any symptoms to anyone previously. Just because he had an altercation prior to the flight and he also had atherosclerosis of the coronary arteries does not allow one to conclude that a cardiac event was responsible for his poor performance. This appeared to be just speculation. It seems far more likely that he allowed his judgment to be clouded by the blowup with the flight officer and the toxic relationship with younger crew members.
I agree theres too much health speculation surrounding the captain. Such coronary matters were discovered post mortem / hypothesis / and were never directly attributed to the crash. The evidence that there was some kind of psychosocial occurrence going on is considerable on the other hand, though after successive reconstructions its begun defaulting to a heart attack at the stick. Some people tend to enter a reification concerning age / cum natural selection disorientation. In that sense maybe it is part of selection for some to hate older persons under the miscomprehension that getting old is so far away for them that it virtually doesn't take place at all (lol). Time will stretch out infinitely for them and loss of youth just never gets there. Whilst in Europe ? - frankly theres been decades of social engineering aimed at helping the young to reify like that & thus see a way to blame the old. When one thinks about it the ideology that 'youth' is not fixed length but indeterminate is a tempting bribe if stated in sublime ways under highly funded circumstances of sovereign state propaganda. Although ? - its the young persons prerogative to feel like this because its a natural feeling & human paradox ( its normal ) And this is what social engineers exploit a great deal - they know people can be activated by being manipulated via these emotions. The current cultural marxist manipulation that preys on the weaker mind is having a bit of a field day with all its sociological tools in fact, but its a human paradox involving real feelings nevertheless. Perhaps true to remark that nature always will produce numbers who detest older people more and will struggle with such emotion. If so its a big problem combined with establishment determination to continuously update its models decade on decade that stir it up - all well and good. In an aeroplane though when such hate is even scrawled around the cockpit it doesn't harbinger well AT ALL! Also there would be obstacles concerning hypocrisy as age haters tend to demand other inequality removed where it suits them while concurrently THEY are inequality & judge mentalism machines against a chosen target. For that matter ageism is surely the most self loathing and cowardly target of all. So natural selection bites back very hard at times & the ultimate repayment is ageing to all it just stands to reason therefore is a very self destructive path. The basic fact is that the age phenomenon is inescapable & the elites stole the young people wealth & well being. How despicable it is that much lost was spent with psychological companies teaching those who were robbed not to know who by! The universe has a great sense of humour in these ways as only nature knows how to dispense Equality of Justice & it'll be a pigs ear under politicians. There's no such thing as a hate free lunch such as the UK is trying to make possible right now - NO such thing whatsoever. Theres older people cognitively crashing all over Britain under the stress of being hated because after all 'they caused all the problems' didn't they ?. Key didn't - & no ordinary person like him did. Reasonable people know that ordinary people without wealth have no power or control over what ruins any life with regard to public wealth and policy. The elite have done whatever they wanted whilst quite ignoring the will of the people. We all best be careful what we wish for just as this crew had best at that time. Its everyones turn to be accused of ruining young peoples lives one day because the elite who take the wealth ( that impairs ALL young lives ) make sure that the older non affluent get the blame!!. Theres been a different version of it in every decade since the end of WW2 & the 70's version was almost as vicious as '2020's' essentialist dystopian model of hating the 'old'. While what is said of the ancient greek experiments with misanthropy ? The masses find out in the end that they were taught to hate anyone in the underclasses including themselves.
The crew procedures were bad, the accident report identified widespread deliberate dangerous actions and basic errors throughout the BEA Trident fleet, healthy pilots were involved. One captain claimed that when asked 50% of inexperienced first officers would disconnect the stick shaker/pusher at the first sign of its activation.
This is a very reasonable comment. There does not seem to be any actual evidence that he had a heart attack or that he was experiencing extreme pain. That is indeed speculation.
There was a series called Air Crash Investigation that went into this crash in great detail, including the forensics. It might be on You Tube if you search for it. Fight to the Death was the name of the episode.
@@johnhead1643 Indeed. As an RAF WWII pilot he would have been a young pilot himself, working with other "tweenage" pilots, taking risks - not as much as the Poles, however - and watching 14 young RAF pilots die or be captured every week. So I don't see "ageism" from his side. The fact that hostile graffiti was in the flightdeck for two weeks is worrying...didn't they clean the planes, or bring that to someone's attention? 1972 was a "rebellious" period in history and "our chaps" were used to mutual respect. I wonder if he had a couple of cognacs after the altercation...we will never know now...but really really sad...
Years ago we did a fire course, the fireman doing the course attended this accident. He said he saw passengers strapped in dead, as though asleep. All suffered basically broken necks or internals.
Not true. Media created Urban Myth. Road closed, cars drove onto grass to allow emergency services access. It’s scary isn’t it! How much of Our Deeply Held Personal Beliefs And Factual Information turns out to be simply the imaginations of tabloid journalists. People who are paid to create entertainment and a diversion from more relevant information.
It’s not true. I’ve read numerous accounts of this accident and this was fabricated by a certain newspaper, whose integrity and truthfulness are known to be non-existent. @@beenaplumber8379
One thing not mentioned in the video was that the stick pusher had shown a large number of false activation over many months prior to this accident. My father was also a Captain on Trident at that time. When I asked him why he thought the stick pusher had been turned off he pulled out his log book and was able to find 5 or more incidents where he had experienced a false activation. In the first of those he explained that there was no way to disable it and that he and the co-pilot, between them, were only just strong enough to hold the controls back during their emergency return and landing. They each had one foot braced against the dash leaving one foot each to activate the brakes. After this (i believe) a valve was fitted such that the hydraulic pressure could be released. My father believed that during this flight the Captain assumed the stall warning to be false whilst being unaware of the slats being withdrawn. It does not however answer why he did not hit the throttles (to hell with noise abatement) in response to the low airspeed. In later years BA introduced 'failure to respond' scenarios into simulator sessions where a member of the crew were taken aside before the simulator 'flight' and asked to behave unnaturally at a certain point to see how the rest of the crew dealt with it.
The crash report said there were a small number of stick shaker errors but after the initial debugging after introduction the stick pusher was almost 100% reliable and analysed pilot disagreements were down to the pilot not being aware of their configuration and performance errors. The report did not paint that generation of pilots in a good light, there were a lot of similar near incidents.
What an awesome idea for crew training! Is an unnaturally behaving crew member an emergency? I mean, in an aircraft that requires at least two crew members, I would imagine the loss of one of them (for whatever reason) would mean discontinuing the flight ASAP.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 almost 100% reliable is not convincing for a failsafe of this nature. I would not be comforted by that if I were a pilot
@@jd980 The report put the safery improvement firmy on the side of the hardware, do you doubt that in all probability pilot error killed all those passengers and the crew? Keeping your passengers safe is a pilot's ultimate priority and duty.
nah, he literally messed it up at every turn, half of it was made up.. I mean, there's no such place as Brittin. Whateven place is that even at all? cmon
I was in hospital in 2019 when another patient in the same ward told me about this accident his best man at his wedding was cabin crew on this flight he said he never got over losing such a close friend
I was a Trident 1E captain in Pakistan International Airlines in the late 1960s. It was a unique aircraft in many ways. We had normal control yokes, not the "motorcycle" type. It had a poor performance in ground summer temperatures (around 40C) and it could barely maintain Mach .78 in cruise. In winter it was a different plane! It could climb at 3000 ft/min plus and cruise at Mach .88. It was the only airliner that I have flown that had a different autopilot for roll and another one for pitch. In and emergency descent the two side engines could be used in reverse to get down fast. An approach was made by the pilot flying using the control column and the pilot not flying handling the three throttles on the PF commands. Getting below the computed airspeed was dangerous. The plane could take on a high descent rate without changing attitude and descend uncontrollably in what would appear to be a normal attitude until ground impact. We only had four Trident 1Es and they were delivered a year late. The penalty cost the manufacturer a lot of money. A somewhat inebriated company executive told one of our flight engineers at a party for the first delivery flight, that the money would be recovered by raising the prices of spares. This happened and the Tridents became too expensive to operate. The plane was streets ahead in advanced systems so the Chinese were interested and they bought them from us and ordered many more. When they were warned about the spares trap, the simply said that they would make their own spares! Once you knew her idiosynchrancies the Trident was a delight to fly manually. Group Captain Cunningham, the DH Chief Test Pilot showed us how to shorten the landing roll by taking reverse in the air before touch down . This took a bit of skill---too high and there would be an unpleasant thump! Only one other captain, besides myself practiced this. Once after take off from Karachi, a new copilot ( from the B 707s) when I asked for flaps up, retracted both the flaps and the L/E Slats. (as happened in this accident case.) the flashing warning lights came on and I immediately reached over and extended the L/E flaps--or we would have mushed down to a crash. We did not have that map display but in that place we had a warning system that illuminated , telling you what was the problem . This illuminated "L/E " but I had already taken remedial action. We always tested the "Stick Pusher" before the flight in the pre start cockpit checks. We trained the Chinese to fly the Trident and one rueful training flight instructor told me it was a bit hair raising as he had to issue instructions through and interpreter who translated English to Chinese! Loved flying the Trident--it was my first jet command--but you had to give her respect!
A great video as always. I think it was really a mix of everything: tensions in the cockpit, the captain suffering a heart failure etc. Of course, we're all humans with our biases, grudges and emotions, but in the ideal world those should stay outside of the cockpit.
At certain points in my career as an airline pilot, I was a witness to tension between picket line crossers and strikers. I can tell you that it made for tension on the flight deck between them and made for an unpleasant work environment.
I vividly remember when this happened, even though I was only a child at the time. It was such a needless accident, so easy to avoid. CRM has come a long way since then.
I have a feeling CRM only became a thing much much later... I want to say after Tenerife, which seems a few decades after the Tridents in my mind (though cannot be sure)
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 You are right. I didn’t mean to imply that this incident precipitated the CRM changes, just that a lot has changed in the intervening years. On the other hand, I am sure lessons were learned.
@@gosborg I wasn't saying you did, I am just pointing out, this was not even the beginning of the road for CRM... was always amazed how much time it took for people to start moving in that direction... I mean I do understand engrained want of hierarchy, top-dog and all, but still, they put the other pilots there for a reason!
The crash at Tenerife was in 1977 and it was one of many crashes at the end of the 70s and into the 80s which provided much impetus for CRM. @@stanislavkostarnov2157
Also, something that needs to be talked about more these days, is age-related vascular dementia. Two of my family members had it. It's a slow clogging of the arteries to the brain, thus gradual oxygen deprivation in the brain. It's insideous, and people adjust to it somewhat and thus minimize the effects, and it's much less striking than other dementias. Personality changes are a hallmark of the start. People often become more extreme in their political and religious beliefs or change them altogether, or just more of what's already there, like anger, perhaps violence, depression, paranoia, and denial. And forgetfulness, of course, but not too noticeable at first. Also inflexiblility, unable to adjust to a changing world. High cholesterol, smoking, and heart disease are risks, as along with heart issues, other blood vessels are affected/clogged similarly. These days, they can easily clean out the build-up in the neck arteries. It can be detected by ultrasound, I believe. Getting the senior to have these simple procedures is often difficult, though.
You've described the symptoms that I - unknowingly - have but now know. Thank you. I'll endeavor to see my doctor about this if I can get an appointment, that is.
I remember the Trident and even flew aboard several to and from Yugoslavia during my family trips to Yugoslavia in the 70s. My last flight on a Trident was in August 1981 from Zagreb to LHR. I sat on one of the rear-facing rows just ahead of the wing on the right-hand side. She was an excellent plane and a loud one at that.
The irony of Key seeing strike action as unprofessional, only for him to very unprofessionally blow up at his colleague about the subject of strike action.
My wife's parents were killed on BEA 548. We went to the 45th anniversary in Staines , Met Mike Bannister, the BEA chief concord pilot, and his wife, along with Nurse Frances, who was the first to arrive on the scene. We also met 2 of the news reporters who arrived on the scene right after the crash. Met several relatives who's family members perished on the flight. I always believed that Captain Key was a victim of circumstance, that his unknown heart ailment may have contributed to the crash, but his younger, immature colleagues were too inexperienced to correct or overcome the unfortunate chaos that happened on the flight deck. I feel, Captain Key was a good guy and great pilot, although he was the butt of jokes from the younger and inexperienced pilots below him. The younger pilots wanted to strike, the older pilots were more mature and just wanted to do their jobs. Good documentary, thanks...
The situation in the airline at that stage was toxic, the strike action had pitted the junior pilots against their older more experienced captains and in Cpt. Keys case graffitti had been spotted on a Trident's engineering panel that stated that Keys felt he was god. The other problem with the situation was that the Trident for all of it's advances to counter deep stall had issues with the air operated control systems and they did malfunction and were isolated in some cases, taken with the Naples Incident where an alleged mechanical malfunction or misuse of the droops had nearly caused a Trident to stall you had an aircraft that while it could land itself could in certain circumstances prove very tricky to keep flying. Key's outburst prior to the flight was described by a witness as being one of the most violent and aggressive verbal attacks he had ever witnessed on someone, but credit must be given to Cpt. Keys for apologised to his victim before the ill fated flight took place. I frequently pass by the crash site and always think of that incident and the people on that plane for whom there would be no escape as it was a totally avoidable and more to the point a totally preventable accident had the situation within the airline and within the cockpit been better managed
We were flying in a Northeast Trident that took off 5 minutes after, my late grandfather had dropped us at Heathrow and heard about the crash. It took a day before he found out it was BEA.
I'm from Staines (for my sins), and my parents saw that crash happen. They were coming back from visiting local family, driving along exactly that section of Staines Bypass (the major road next to the crash site). They didn't see the plane in the air, but were rocked by what seemed like a huge bomb going off, and saw a massive fireball. It was only later that they realised the full extent of what had happened. They've never talked about it much. Thanks for covering it so comprehensively.
I once worked with a lady in Human Resources who had posted for the job that I got. I was new to the company. She had been there for 2 years. At first she was very helpful. But then she asked my boss to fire me and place her in my role. He refused (yep, this is what he told me). That is when she stopped talking to or even answering me when I said "good morning." No eye contact from her either. This was her problem, not mine. One year later Covid-19 craziness happened, she saw that I was fully engaged in the role and doing well when it came to following sanitary protocols. Then one day, she began talking to me like nothing had ever happened. I followed suit. Again, this was not MY PROBLEM. She is a VERY intelligent person and performs very well. Has a great intuition too. Bad situation for a while. But, I think, mutual respect. That is what this flight crew was missing. Mutual respect.
That was an outstanding video! I’ve been an air traffic controller since 2001 and really look forward to you new videos. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this and every other video!!!
I was 14yrs old and obsessed with aviation, living at the time in Pooley Green not far from Staines. Much of my time was spent in the garden with my fathers binoculars watching the planes coming over our house. I was doing this when I heard the impact and saw the smoke rise to the North of us.
I was thinking the same thing. He said this was the worst incident twice. He said "in Britain" but Scotland is part of Britain. He would have been correct if he said "England".
Fantastic video and informative. I have mentioned before that my mum was in a local hospital in Staines in 1972. I would have been six at the time. I went with my dad to visit my mum on that Sunday and I commented to my dad, why were there so many emergency vehicles around. When we got home it was on the news what had happened. I always think of this accident when I drive down the Staines by pass where it happened. Thanks once again for the work you put into these videos.
"Staines-upon-Thames" sounds like a town with a severe self-confidence problem. Like, c'mon, you're a fine little town, I bet, there's no need to call yourself a stain.
It changed it's name from Staines to Staines-upon-Thames in 2012 following an Ali-G comedy sketch shown on UK television during the 1990's. Remarkable but true.
I used to pass Stains on the Reading - Waterloo line on my way to work in Richmond in a job I hated. Sadly every stop on that line has a negative memory in my mind lol
I remember this 'story' breaking on the BBC 6 O'clock news the day it happened. I couldn't believe that a perfectly functional aircraft with three engines could stall and 'fall out of the sky' like that. I was only a child at the time. One of our neighbours happened to be a BOAC maintenance engineer. It seemed to be the only thing that he and my dad talked about for months afterwards.
I was 18 at the time, and remember this well. It was always referred-to as the "Papa India disaster", from the aircraft's last two registration letters (some of this video shots show this, others are of other aircraft). This video doesn't mention the stick shaker, which normally precedes the stick pusher, but the out-of-configuration state caused them both to happen together, compounding the startle effect and possibly causing the thought that the system was malfunctioning, leading to it being disconnected. Before this video I hadn't heard about the fact that they were well below the speed they should have been, as well as the droop retraction. Today's "you learn something every day" item. Great video.
I flew the Trident many times in the late 70's and early 80's. It is still the worlds second fastest commercial jet after Concorde. It was loud but always fun to fly in
@@nkt1 The 990 was a little faster in the cruise but our descent Mmo/Vmo profile had the edge at .88/365kts. Being able to deploy the outboard thrust reversers also gave some operational “flexibility” during descent!
Thank you for this video. I was a child in London at the time of this disaster and remember being shocked hearing the news on that Sunday. I was very keen on aviation and patriotically proud of England’s pioneering innovative aviation industry, frustrated that the government had cancelled the amazing TSR2 fighter bomber, and therefore the thought of a Trident crashing on a weather-wise perfect day, was unimaginable. Thank you for so sensitively and so accurately presenting the facts.
My father RIP was a captain on the Trident from the mid 60s to the mid 70s. He loved flying it. Very advanced for it's time. CATIII Zero visibility Full Auto land capable. Very fast cruised at M0.88 and can cruise at M0.96 if fuel consumption is not a problem. Had fans to cool the brakes. Was capable of 10,000 fpm descend rate using reverse thrust in flight. A great aircraft. It's only weakness was it's poor take-off performance in hot weather.
My friends father was a fireman from nearby Slough that attended the crash site. He told us that it was an horrific scene. The aircraft had hit the ground hard on its belly. Most of the passengers that had been in the brace position were found in their seats with their spines sticking up behind their heads due to the massive impact.
Old guy? He was in his early 50s. Which happens to be where I am now. He sounds like someone who learned something 100 years ago and that was it. Doesn't sound like a fun guy to be around no matter what your relationship
Congratulations on covering this so well. The Trident was a superb aircraft, although the Trident 1 (G-ARPI was a Trident 1) was very underpowered, its Rolls Royce Spey engines only developing 9,600 lbs of thrust each (the Trident Two & Three had engines pushing out nearly 12,000 lbs thrust). So after the initial climb out on take-off power, the thrust reduction to 70% was considerable and resulted in a rate of climb of a mere 500 ft/min (compared to today's airliners that achieve rates far in excess of that) and you soon realise that with an airspeed of 156 knots, the super-stall immediately doomed them all. BEA pilots at the time were deeply untrusting of the Trident's stick-push system as they'd had so many false warnings. It required a force of about 90 lbs to overcome it manually, so the dump lever was the first thing to be pulled. Many pilots rehashed this accident in the simulators. It WAS possible to recover, but ONLY if the DROOP was IMMEDIATELY selected out again, throttles were firewalled to give full power, the nose pushed forward and then immediately the speed was seen to recover, only then eased back on the control column. The simulator trace would show a recovery only feet above ground level.... All pilots need time to evaluate any aircraft incident before responding, factor that in and this was an UNRECOVERABLE tragedy. Once again, well done for bringing this excellent production to TH-cam.
A true and accurate consideration of events - I do wish the speculators would re-read the BoI conclusions before jumping in with their sometimes inane comments
Something I love about the trident is about the trident is that the nose gear is just off to the left and its entirely british. Its just the aircraft that will annoy anyone with ocd
Thanks for the video. I learnt some new things. I didn't know that the graffiti had probably been made 2 weeks prior. For some reason I thought it was scribbled just before the flight. I didn't know about the T-tail design having that stall quirk either. Yes, this accident is a perfect example of why a flight-deck voice recorder is needed.
Damn, I was not expecting this and Aeromexico flight 498 to be the preceding episodes for the Zagreb mid-air collision, my guess back on the last week's comment section became a huge miss lol. This and last week's Disaster Breakdown are very well done. I'll be looking forward towards next week's episode of Disaster Breakdown about the Zagreb mid-air collision.
Ok. I'm a bit obsessed with your channel. Once again, a flawless telling of another plane disaster. I love the background and history you provide and how you make the technical stuff easy to understand
Oh goodness, I looked up the event I THINK you’ll be covering next week (1976?), and there’s so many layers to it, but talk about a disaster happening in the blink of an eye. Definitely a worthwhile one to talk about, though, since I haven’t seen any other major airline channel discuss this one. I know you’ll do it justice, Chloe. :) Wonderful job
Captain Key did nothing wrong. He was approached by a strike supporter, not the other way around. The man wanted to keep himself to himself, which is the way it should be.
How do you know captain Key did nothing wrong? There were no cockpit voice recorders so the atmosphere and conversation in the cockpit will never be known. We do know that the outburst in the BEA crew room prior to the flight and witnessed by many was enough to put Key into a rage, did this outburst trigger his heart attack? Was he in pain in the early parts of the flight and barking out orders? Did he retract the leading edge droops himself? Or was he still in such a rage that he commanded the droops be retracted by the co-pilot, who after witnessing his outburst in the crew room himself, could have been confused or even intimidated by his commands? We will never know due to the lack of cockpit voice recorders. He was clearly not liked much by his worked colleagues, hence the graffiti. Was he difficult to work with? What makes you so sure that he 100% did nothing wrong?
Personally... I think it was a bad crew selection by BEA----putting two "novices" with a seasoned and war experienced senior pilot. Pretty sure they showed disrespect and contempt for "the old guard"...... and maybe exacerbated the underlying health problems of the senior guy. Without CVR...it is impossible to say what the atmosphere was like in that cockpit. I think it foolish and disrespectful to speculate....to all the people who perished. RIP.
The Trident was nick-named "The Gripper" because of it's reluctance to take to the air. Longer versions of the Trident had a small fourth turbojet installed in the tail as can be seen in some of the great photos. An entire delegation of Irish industrial and exporting managers died in the accident.
I researched this accident extensively about 10 years ago - it is fascinating. Due to the strike, the co-pilot (Keighley) was not trained to the highest standards and was being monitored by the third pilot/flight engineer (Ticehurst). Keighley was reported as being slow to respond to emergencies in training. It is a mystery as to why Ticehurst didn't notice the speed dropping and the droops retracted. The simplest explanation - and I have thought this through a LOT, almost daily - is that Captain Key's condition was so severe and distracting that the other three people on the flight deck were unable to prevent the plane entering a deep stall because they were trying to help him. Even though the medical evidence is thin, the idea that three other pilots (including Captain Collins in the jump seat - a trained Trident caption now flying Viscounts) were just sitting around in a panic or oblivious doesn't make any sense. The only person who may have been panicking a bit is Keighley due to his junior position. I believe Captain Key may have had a massive heart attack and fell unconscious. The others would have tried to either remove him from his seat (very difficult) or instruct Keighley to fly the plane. The idea that the crash happened almost subtly is, in my view, nonsense. Professionalism and lives depended on them getting it right - surely only a massive health incident could have distracted them that much? Footnote: I have seen at least one web article where the captain's daughter hotly disputes the heart attack theory!
I remember this accident very well because a friend and I rode our bikes to the crash scene. We both lived in Staines of course and were in the town when the plane came down so rode as fast as we could to where it came down. We knew the quickest way there. The emergency services were on the scene when we got there so couldn’t get too close but l do remember that we could quite clearly see the plane. Well what was left of it. My father worked for BEA at the time and was, if I remember correctly, on duty that day and it effected him quite badly. It was an extremely upsetting time for all the people involved especially the emergency services, BEA, Heathrow Airport and the people of Staines.
I live in Staines. There is memorial window in the local church. At the time of the accident we were going home by train. We saw the jammed roads. The town has never forgotten the sccident
Another example of how important it is to have respectful communication between colleagues. I've listened to a lot of these reports on air disasters and so many of them have this toxic background in the cockpit anger, resentment , tension, lack of knowledge which have all contributed to crashing they have to talk to each other so they can diagnose the problem and that's obviously the most major thing
I remember this accident. Sight-seers went and stopped nearby on the M4 motorway afterwards, some allegedly even took picnics. A national newspaper the following day described this with the headline 'GHOULS'. Sickening behaviour.
I lived close to Heathrow and remember that crash, not far from my late Uncles home. At the time capt Ticehurst got a lot of blame re the flaps, but the mix was a perfect storm. I also remember the disgusting public who were looting the contents from the wreckage, close to the reservoir…. 50 plus years ago like yesterday.
My late Brother was a head designer on Concorde at Fulton but spent most of his time in France at Aero Spatiell Toulouse… that plane was tested far beyond all others, and it took as he said usually a pilot/ human error to cause accidents….which he investigated. Again there were some debatable issues on the plane, weight/ fuel being pushed to the limit, it was a combination of that.Concorde was his life’s main
I'm always impressed by you knowledge and breakdowns of a vast assortment of planes and different technical components on each type making it easier for us *lay persons* to follow along.
An excellent video on this flight. This is one of my "favorite" accident but it is hardly covered by other informational websites, perhaps in my historical search there are only about 5 websites (including TH-cam Channels like yours) out of the hundreds that are out there that covers this accident. Excellent work! Kudos to you for making this video.
My father tells a story that I always think about when I read/watch something on this accident anyway, he was an RAF pilot from the early 1960s through to the 1980s. Back in the mid-60s he was a co-pilot on Shackleton's and he was with a senior pilot this particular day and the procedure for take off at this airfield included checking that they had clearance on take off to cross a railway track(I kid you not!). So the pilot lines up and sets off down the runway, my father challenges him saying we don't have clearance... and sure enough turned out they didn't so they abort take-off and go again. The following day my father was hauled in in from of the Squadron Commander and told in no uncertain terms never to challenge the officer commanding the flight again! Clearly that's the kind of background Captain Key was coming from.
I was there on that day. My parents lived close by and I we had just finished lunch when we heard the radio newsflash. My Dad (61 at the time) said, let's go and see! My mother declined, naturally, but I went with my father. We expected to see a belly flopped plane and passengers climbing out. So close to the airport, it didn't occur to us that there could be fatalities. We were among many who crowded the road by the crash scene. Later when the full horror became known the press called us, the sight-seers, "ghouls." I guess that they were right. I was 24 at the time and my Danish girlfriend and I made made short flights like this from Heathrow, and Gatwick. The implication of this fateful flight stayed in my mind for many years to come.
There's a time for labor relations, and a time to fly the plane. It appears that perhaps the pilots forgot this basic rule. I would bet, because of their differences, the two young co-pilots were not communicating with the senior pilot and therefore not working together.
Very cool to hear the history of the Concorde-style yoke, I love how Embraer still uses them today. Sad to hear of such unprofessionalism as graffiti in the cockpit though, I would not want someone who would do that flying 100+ passengers around.
Unprofessional perhaps... but in the absence of a cockpit voice recorder this graffiti gives us an insight into the toxic environment on this flight deck...
What an amazing vid! The information and quality of the content in it is just as detailed as a air crash investigation episode. Definetly I will be watching your videos more often. Continue like that! RIP to everybody aboard flight 548
This is a very well researched and presented video. I was living in Kent at the time, and news of the crash came on the early evening TV news. Over the next few days, reports came out that Captain Key was at a pilots meeting just before flying the plane, took the controls in a towering rage and had a heart attack during the take off. It was said that the co-pilot was perhaps not very experienced, might have panicked, and was unable to correct the stall. Tragic accident.
A very good summary, relecting the accident report. Many other teenagers and I were sailing on a very nearby reservoir. The wind that day was awful. Of many dinghies that day, only three of us managed to stay upright long enough to finish the race. In my case only using the jib ... I still have the trophy. Although I was always puzzled as to whether the captain was actually suffering from heart pain, there were clearly serous issues with the crew's performance. prior to the flight. One factor that always surprised me was there was no significant mention of the wind. Of course the aircraft should have been flying faster, but were they also unlucky with an unhelpful wind shift? From memory we had white water on the reservoir, with severe changes in wind direction. A glance at that day's wether chart will show what was happening.
22:28 But let us not criticize the fact that the noise abatement procedures force the pilots to fly at less than full thrust, possibly wiping out any speed margin that might have prevented the crash. Oh no, got to keep it quiet for the neighbours.
I actually live in staines, a minute from the park where a memorial plaque lays. last year (2022) I had seen a meeting of veterans donating flowers on the anniversary day. moreover when you walk to the ponds on the right in the field you can see the real crash site.
If I remember correctly, the father of one of my sister's friends was a senior police officer on-site. Years later as a Chief Inspector he was on-site at the Moorgate tube disaster.
Great video as always, could you do a video on Malaysian airlines flight 17 please it's such an interesting story. Keep up the good work Chloe I absolutely love your work!!!
A very good breakdown of this accident. I like the matter-of-factly, no-drama style. It's unfortunate that the parties involved aren't around to tell what actually happened. I believe that Captain Key was a fine pilot, and there are so many scenarios that could have played out here, including copilot moving controls and not making call-outs, or a fight over the controls. It's hard to imagine, even with his health condition, that this salty old pilot would not be aware of his airspeed or pitch attitude.
Ive always felt, that Captain Key was judged very harshly and unfairly in the crash, while the 2 young pilots were allowed to just basically get off with no responsibility. Why? Well, first Captain Key. Yes, he was very set in his ways, an oldfashioned captain used to being the unquestioned boss - but thats how he was taught and how it was back then. And he was not the 1 looking for fights or confrontations. The argument b4 the flight was provoked by the strike supporter, who sought out Captain Key despite knowing, or perhaps due to knowing, that Key was against the strike. Captain Key just wanted to keep to himself and do the job and expecting the same professionalism from the other pilots. He certainly did not get that professionalism from his flight crew. The 2 come off as very unprofessional, disrespectful, intolerant towards any1 not agreeing 100% with them and more busy with juvenile schoolboy taunts than doing their jobs. Theres plenty of blame to go around between humans and systems alike, but I really think, their atrocious behavior was inexcusable. Whatever differences they had with Captain Key and others, it did NOT belong in the cockpit. Those 2 were clearly not ready for the jobs, they were given, regardless of whatever skills they might have had with aircraft operations. Personally I think, that the 2 young pilots were the big winners of the plane not having a CVR. We were all losers for not having valuable information, that mightve answered most of or all of the unanswered questions. Captain Key wouldve been served well with the certainty of what happened, rather than every1 of us speculating for 50 years, almost exclusively focused on the captain. While the CVR might have been a verbal proof of the utter unprofessionalism of the 2 younger pilots and have turned the spotlight on them, their behavior and their performance in the cockpit. Yes, Captain Key was not without fault. In a fatal accident its basically impossible for any of the crew to be completely blameless. But considering the record of Captain Key and the others, considering the behaviors in the period b4 the flight, considering the graffiti found in the cockpit and what that entails, I personally find it much more likely, that the fatal mistake(s) were from the co-pilot than from the captain. As Captain Key had not previously shown any symptoms of the disease, that was discovered at his autopsy, I think that to be a red herring.
As far as I am aware it was established that Captain Key was flying. The sequence of events therefor would have been that the RHS (right hand seat) pilot started his stopwatch as they rolled and subsequently called “90 seconds, flaps 5, climb thrust” and actioned both those selections. The pilot in the LHS would be focussed on instruments and therefore not monitoring the flap/droop selection - this was the duty of the monitoring third pilot (P3). Any mis-selection of the droop lever would therefore likely have been by P2 in the RHS
@@Kathikas1 A bad set up in the cockpit, BEA should have had a professional Flight Engineer in the cockpit, not some Pilot with minimum flight hours who didn't want to be a systems operator. BOAC had the full 3 crew with F/E for operations with Comet/B707/B747/VC10/Concorde and they were a good outfit.
@@Kathikas1 So rhs was setting the flaps and droops ? Better to blame someone you didn't train, for health reasons, than blame your companies new pilots.
The post mortem of the captain showed that he has atherosclerosis. They couldn't prove that he had a heart attack or stroke and that this is what caused the crash. That's perhaps a tempting deduction given the evidence, but we don't have the proof of that.
A cardiologist commented elsewhere on this post, saying the same as you - an autopsy would have confirmed whether or not his health affected the crash.
Thank you for this video. The Trident was a beautiful aircraft but I'm English so a bit of bias. Like most British commercial pilots of that time, Key was ex Royal Air Force so he would probably have had more of a 'sense of duty' than some of his colleagues. A strange (though tragic coincidence) Sunday 18th June 1815 was the Battle of Waterloo, Brussels. Like the British Midlands air crash at East Midlands Airport, (seventeen years later) the aircraft narrowly misses a motorway. Could have been much worse but of course no consolation to the victim's relatives. Rest In Peace all on BEA 548 that day. 🇬🇧
I read an article on this accident that stated that the graffiti in the accident plane was by no means unique. There was similar insulting scribbles in other planes and in different handwriting. It seems that there was a lot of discontent among the younger employees.
This air crash has always impacted me. Two members of my family were airline pilots at this time and we discussed the condition of this crew many times over the years. Trident was an excellent airliner, typical British well-engineered craft. Something out of ordinary happened the last few moments of this flight, the theory it was impacted by the Captain's physical and perhaps emotional state is certainly plausible. RIP to the crew and passengers.
If I'm correct, British "Decca" was the same company that made phonograph records. I understand the moving map display concept was originally developed in the U.S. - but sold to Decca. I was in Vietnam in 1968 as a young helicopter pilot. A number of our helicopters had the Decca moving map display installed for testing. I used it a number of times. It took us to within sighting distance of our objective. No, not today's GPS quality or accuracy, but quite impressive for its day.
When you speak of Britain in the early commercial air industry, the Comet sadly comes to mind, though what was learned from the Comet was priceless for airliner design, it shows what happens when speed is more important than safety.
Comet encapsulates nearly everything that was wrong with British industry at the time. Great designs overriden by incompetent management and hamstrung by rigid hierarchical structures. It's more or less the same issues that underlay the R101 disaster too Neville Shute covered this in his autobiography (he worked on both and No Highway (to the sky)) really was about Comets
PS Very well made episode. The first 'triplex' aircraft, as after the awful Comet disasters De Havilland went over the top with safety so all systems were triplicated. First autoland, when the whole of Europe was fogged in only Tridents were flying. I watched dozens of them lined up at Heathrow with engines roaring, It pioneered the supercritical wing along with the VC10 which gave it the necessity for stick shaker as stall was not so obvious. The Trident wing still sort of lives on in Airbus, as the A300 supercritical wing was a development of the Trident design. With Hawker Siddeley still making Airbus wings... I think?
Yes the Tridents engines were very loud and Hawker Siddeley Aviation was by UK Gov Decree merged with other British Aircraft Coy's to form British Aerospace Engineering (BAE) and Airbus Wings are still made at HS Works at Filton,Bristol ,UK.
One of the recommendations of the accident inquiry was that occurrence reporting should be mandatory. Prior to the accident BEA had had a couple of near misses when droop was retracted below minimum speed but the crews got away with it. At least one of these incidents was reported internally but no management action had been taken. Mandatory Occurrence Reporting was adopted placing a responsibility on the operator and regulator that incidents be reported and acted on. This has been a major contribution to airline safety worldwide. Even if the incident does not lie within the remit of being reportable a voluntary report to the system can be submitted and is treated in the same way as an MOR. The MOR system also lists the type of incidents which must be reported. Crews filing an MOR can annotate that a copy goes to the aviation regulator immediately as well as the operator. The regulator reviews all MORs on a regular basis. MOR's can be submitted by aircrew, engineers and also, I believe, air traffic controllers. Sadly most aviation safety is built on hard experience and often death. I remember the accident well as the two first officers on the crew had completed their training at the College of Air Training, Hamble, UK which was BEA/BOACs flying school for cadets. I had graduated from Hamble about 2 years before the accident although I never flew Tridents. Like all accidents there were several holes in the Swiss cheese which lined up on the day of the accident. We should keep in mind this was before the days of Cockpit Resource Management training where crews learn how to operate as a team and the pitfalls of not doing so. Another recommendation of the report was that training should include pilot incapacitation procedures. This was adopted and incapacitation training and practise is now a routine part of 6 monthly simulator refresher rides for all pilots.
Great suggestion! Reading the Wikipedia article about it, it seems like it would be a perfect fit for this channel. An engine detaching in flight, wow.
@@DisasterBreakdown A BOAC 707 that suffered from an engine failure which, 1 - tore the engine off the left wing and 2 - caused a fire that burned the plane down after it landed back at Heathrow. One of the crewmembers on this flight was then F.O John Hutchinson, later known for his career in BA's Concorde Division. Also of note for the BOAC 712 accident was the selfless sacrifice of Barbara 'Jane' Harrison who gave up her life trying to save 4 people who were still trapped in the burning 707, only to finally succumb to the smoke.
Hello Chloe, great video as always! Can you do a video of the crash of Garuda flight 865 that happened at Fukuoka Airport in Japan in 1996? I was living in Fukuoka at the time and this accident doesn’t seem to be covered much.
I'm sad. I love the Trident, it was the first airplane I ever flew in, summer of 1981 inbound to Heathrow. Some weeks later I took the chance to snatch a copy of a Trident boardingticket stickers element out of a full box at an empty BA counter late evening...Hung in my room for years. My apologies to BA, though, as a huge fan the little boy of then just couldn't resist :)
Good that you mention the phenomenon where many T-tail designs sometimes can't be unstalled. A strange fact - the Mayday episode about this disaster, as well as the one about the West Caribbean Airlines disaster, both fail to mention this. The cynic in me thinks this may be because the show gets funding from the Canadian government; at the time the main manufacture of T-tailed jetliners was Bombardier (who themselves lost a couple of aircraft and crews to this phenomenon in test flights). Maybe they didn't like the prospect of some Bloc Quebecois MP ranting in Parliament about taxpayers' money being used to throw shade at an iconic Quebec company.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Yeah, I gather the 727 is less subject to deep stall than most similar aircraft. One case that's sometimes cited is Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 6231, but this isn't really an example; the confused crew were holding it into the stall, and then it suffered structural failure.
@BB49 I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory; it doesn't require any vast conspiracy, just a few risk averse writers or producers not wanting to rock the boat. Yeah, they're still being made for business jets, and I wouldn't worry about flying on one, but I could see someone with the network not wanting to go there.
@BB49 You're missing the point. It's not that T-tails are all that dangerous (they aren't), just that someone might have been afraid of being seen to suggest that they were. Not that far out really. Given that the show has done two episodes about accidents involving deep stall without mentioning the phenomenon, I just thought it odd. It's not like a difficult concept to understand; if you can understand stall, you can understand deep stall. So why would they shy away from it then?
@BB49 It made a difference for the recoverability of the situation. It didn't _cause_ the crashes per se; the cause of the crashes, like most crashes, was a confluence of factors, of which the aircraft design. But again, that's not the point, the point is that they might have been reluctant to be seen to imply that T-tails are less safe than other designs. So again, since it was a factor (albeit one of many) and is mentioned in most discussions of the accidents (including this video) why the reluctance to talk about it?
Gosh, if the younger pilots were collectively grafitti-ing the cockpit, I'm not sure Cpt. Key was wrong in considering them immature & irresponsible?? 😳 But the fact that their scribbles were there for several weeks & not reported by colleagues or removed by cleaners definitely seems to point to some wider issues within the wider airline too...? These tyoes of historical incidents just continue to reinforce the vital importance of modern CRM training.
The photo of the tail section in the wreckage with the distinct ‘Trident’ on it is burned in my memory from childhood where I saw it my dad’s Plane Crashes book.
The windows never failed however ! Actually, the weakness in the aircraft skin and other supporting structures was due to a new method of riveting that caused minute fractures where the rivet was inserted because the hole was punched, not drilled. It's not widely known however..
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I loved this video
I liked this video because you gave extensive description of the crew resource management issues that caused the crash. Essentially, overriding a lot of the safety features that were installed in light of the BAC 1-11 prototype crash was a huge contributing factor in this tragedy.
I REALLY enjoyed how you teased the next episode at the end! Not always possible to link incidents, but I really hope you do more of that moving forward. 😁
Aunt Barbara adores you!
What is the other accident? The only other 2 I know are lockerbie in 1988 and british midland a few weeks later in 1989, and this is my own country! lol. If there were any more other than that involving full size airliners, that would be interesting to know about. I pretty sure we haven't had any more major airliner crashes on british soil since 1989 which is an incredible record (unless someone wants to correct me?)
Imagine being on a plane that is crashing and having to come to terms with the fact that your last few hours on earth were spent in Heathrow
😂😂😂
Wow! Just wow! In tears. Just how???
@@jonimestas9692 Well you see, they went to the airport in Heathrow, and then they died.
Dude 😂
☠️💀
Back in the day, I flew on that first flight, a Trident, to use Autoland. The Captain, calmly, and in an understated British way, said, welcome to London Heathrow Airport. I am pleased to announce that this beautiful aircraft just landed itself...
That must have been awesome. I live in the US so the only British planes I ever encountered were BAE146 and concorde but I miss the trident, bac111, etc
BA used to announce "this was an autolanding" for quite a while until it either got boring or the jobsworths at BA thought it might upset the nervous...
We DID have many manufacturers who designed and built some of the most beautiful and technologically advanced aircraft in history but, unfortunately for us, Boeing don't like competition and they did and still do, everything they can to get rid of its competition. 🇬🇧✌️
@@gooner72 Not everything. They still maintain a culture of profit over safety and deliver unsafe aircraft. They subcontract everything (including quality control). Notice the focus on the manufacturers of the 737 door plug? They have found a way to make safety the responsibility of others. We still don't know what happened, but that's Boeing's current business model. Mark my words - the 787 Dreamliner is next. I believe it's the most widely subcontracted aircraft in the world, and no one has the ability to oversee all of its quality control, least of all the FAA. It's a cheap and profitable way to make a plane, and a great way to avoid responsibility when Boeing can say they didn't manufacture the part that failed.
@@gooner72 Boeing built better aircrafts, thats why they outsold the competition. Nobody forced anyone to buy 727s, they bought them because they were the superior aircraft. And they made money. They built 1,832 of them!
Everybody, including Airbus, outsources aspects of an aircrafts construction. eg: Pratt & Whitney makes the engines for the 727, not Boeing.
The 737-max was perfectly well built, but the carriers weren't training their pilots the right way to handle the new safety systems.
Its the carriers responsibility to follow procedures correctly. After all, Boeings not in the airline business, they're in the airplane building business.
So stop hating on Boeing. The De Havilland Comet exploded in midair on a pretty much regular basis. Why? Because it was poorly designed, perhaps by the same guys who designed the Jaguars electrical systems back in the 60s. It also got rushed forward prematurely, unlike the 707, DC-8, and Convair-880.
Depending on just how worked up the captain got it's quite possible that he was still caught up in the argument which distracted him. I remember in an old job, a manager who had it in for me called me into the building as I was leaving to attend a meeting, just to chew me out over a non-issue. I was furious replaying the incident over and over in my head, so much so that I didn't notice a stop sign and almost crashed.
I have read other accounts of this disaster and one of them said that a witness overhearing the argument stated that it was among the most violent outbursts he had ever heard, or something to that effect. As you alluded to, something like that does not just go away in a short period of time, and definitely affects your normal thought processes and concentration.
@@johnstudd4245 Agree, I read similar, Capt. Keys was extremely angry and red-faced from the encounter .
@johnstudd4245 and in that situation if his crewmates noticed him making a mistake thry might have been afraid to speak up, or he could have reacted with anger to being warned instead of listening to them.
@@tullyDT Not just fearful to speak up, but they were part of the argument also. They could very well have been just as disturbed as the Captain.
As a long distance truck driver I can confirm that misunderstanding and quarrels can indeed affect your ability to control your truck and end up making mistakes which you wouldn't normally do.
I'm relieved that near misses helped me through these rare occasions and my lucky escapades certainly warned me of the unforeseen hazards of my job. Pity about this incident though.
I remember that in 1980 I was a senior manager with a major American company when we had a presentation on this accident. There are a couple of points that I remember being mentioned. The first one was that there was a relief pilot sitting towards the rear of the passenger cabin, who upon realising what was happening as regards the stall he apparently ran the whole length of the aircraft in an attempt to assist. His body was found near or in the cockpit. On a more personal level, there was a party of very senior surgeons from Scotland who were on the flight attending a conference in Brussels. The cream of Scottish surgeons was wiped out that afternoon.
The accident had a similar impact in Ireland. Due to the cancellation of the direct flight from Dublin to Brussels that day, some passengers were rerouted to Heathrow and onto the fatal flight. Among the Irish victims were almost the entire senior staff of the Confederation of Irish Industry, also on their way to a conference in Brussels.
Hello Ian, I think the relief pilot (Captain Collins) was in the jump seat in the cockpit. His position over the centre console in the wreckage was thought by some to suggest that he tried to intervene. He was a qualified Trident pilot who was currently flying Viscounts.
@@greatwestern101 Correct
Drunk Scottish surgeons. No thanks.
I drink Whiskey tonight to honor surgeons 😅🤯👍
Here I am as a retired airline Captain and I’m still learning something new. I was not familiar with the Trident. I was impressed by the fact that it was the first auto land certified airliner and it had that style yoke which I first encountered in the Embraer Brasilia. The moving map display was also a surprise.
It was an advanced plane for its day. I flew in one several times as a passenger. It was comfortable and fast by today’s standards. I got to experience its auto-land capability flying into Heathrow once. I couldn’t see the ground until it was over the runway and about to land. No other aircraft was moving in or out of Heathrow that day.
I was a F/A and used to fly 727-100s and 200s. DC-8s and DC-10s, 747SPs, and 707s. The 727 100's tail stairs saved DB Cooper and an inflight airflow lock was installed.
I just saw another clip after a failed take-off due to flaps never deployed and the Capt said on a following flight "To all flap watchers, they are set to xxxx".
Another safety feature on checklists further down in many cases but initiated early in some accidents was the APU and TOGO for an engine failure or bird strike. They always seem to come up on a check list anyhow but if one already experienced a failure sequence check list the safer results showed them engaged before the checklists are even retrieved.
I had lost an engine on a DC-8 so I knew when our 767 had lost an engine after takeoff. #1 was burning the fuel in the lines left after shutdown and usually burnout but I called the C/P in front of the Pax watching the flames and asked how long should we wait to fire the engine's fire suppression that only works once and won't douse fuel. "2 minutes" was the instruction.
mentourspilot.com on TH-cam is an excellent source for flight accident reviews and a learning experience for me.
Suppose a commercial carrier had to land at an an alternate with too short of a runway to take off from after safely landing. Pax are safe and rerouted via regional prop jets but the commercial jet when grounded is losing money.
Can a jet with reverse thrusters on at the runway start with blocks in back of the tires achieve enough thrust when the buckets are removed? With no pax and a light fuel load to a nearby airport would a possible slingshot boost be feasible?
@@dthomas9230 It would depend on the weight whether the aircraft had enough runway to take off safely. If it couldn’t, then it would have to be taken apart and trucked out. There have been cases where this has happened. As far as this boost you are talking about, no.
@@ual737ret I saw a cable launch booster for aircraft on carriers and now rockets in place of solid booster initiation so the rocket is already flying when the propellant ignites with more thrust as less weight from the solid fuel tank.
Cable shooting a commercial plane has its own issues unless it had a hook or planned on flying with the nose gear down once it is used for cable launch.
If the runway was like CLT on a mountain top you're already airborne at the end of the runway.
Taking the wings off and cargo IS best. But, running the numbers with thrust at full before releasing brakes and the reverse thrusters I thought the engine would require less time to reach full speed, (planes don't burn rubber like dragsters, but powering up and timing how long to take off speed from initial Take off roll would be an interesting exercise with various configurations.
Plus, if a 40 mph headwind was planned in 24 hours, would they take the wings off?
Thanks for the reply.
I lived near Staines as a child when this happened. It caused traffic chaos for days. The wreckage seemed to be there for ages, and long afterwards it was a horrible reminder each time we drove past. Thanks for covering this one.
Unfortunately, something that you will never forget.
I lived in Stanwell, 9 years old, mad on aeroplanes. Remember driving with parents past the crash scene next to the reservoir on many occasions. Pure luck it did not crash into populated areas and kill many more people on the ground..
I lived quite nearby, I was 7 when it happened, I vaguely remember the traffic, as the A316 to M3 wasn't a dual carriageway at that point, it was public trying to get there to see the crash site.
I too saw the wreckage, a week later, As I took the rail air link bus from Woking to Heathrow. Not something you want to see on the way to catch a flight.
It was behind the Crooked Billet. Rubberneckers caused chaos and held up the emergency services.
British planes of the 50s and 60s may not be best sellers, but they pioneered some tech we know today
That map thing was pretty interesting. GPS was years away when the Trident was developed. The only way that I could imagine that function working is that the aircraft used dead reckoning to figure out where it was. If it knew what direction it was going and how fast it was going (ground speed not airspeed) then the aircraft's computer could figure out where the plane was.
This is similar to how early missile guidance systems would work.
How could they possibly compete with the economic might of the USA. Back then they literally had something like 50-60% of global wealth.
Its auto-land ability was, for the time, freaky.
This plane seems like a British equivalent of the L1011.
NOT REALLY THE BRITS ARE BAD ABOUT NOT THINKING THINGS OUT.
This is an excellent reconstruction. I also reviewed the summary on Wikipedia, with a special interest as to the patient's coronary disease, or what I suppose they were referring to as coronary disease. Speaking as a cardiologist, there was no way anyone could tell whether the captain was having any chest pain or any other effects from this coronary disease at the time of the accident unless there was clear evidence on the autopsy that he had suffered an actual acute heart attack, which I did not see any report of. Apparently he had not complained of any symptoms to anyone previously. Just because he had an altercation prior to the flight and he also had atherosclerosis of the coronary arteries does not allow one to conclude that a cardiac event was responsible for his poor performance. This appeared to be just speculation. It seems far more likely that he allowed his judgment to be clouded by the blowup with the flight officer and the toxic relationship with younger crew members.
I agree theres too much health speculation surrounding the captain. Such coronary matters were discovered post mortem / hypothesis / and were never directly attributed to the crash. The evidence that there was some kind of psychosocial occurrence going on is considerable on the other hand, though after successive reconstructions its begun defaulting to a heart attack at the stick. Some people tend to enter a reification concerning age / cum natural selection disorientation. In that sense maybe it is part of selection for some to hate older persons under the miscomprehension that getting old is so far away for them that it virtually doesn't take place at all (lol). Time will stretch out infinitely for them and loss of youth just never gets there. Whilst in Europe ? - frankly theres been decades of social engineering aimed at helping the young to reify like that & thus see a way to blame the old. When one thinks about it the ideology that 'youth' is not fixed length but indeterminate is a tempting bribe if stated in sublime ways under highly funded circumstances of sovereign state propaganda. Although ? - its the young persons prerogative to feel like this because its a natural feeling & human paradox ( its normal ) And this is what social engineers exploit a great deal - they know people can be activated by being manipulated via these emotions. The current cultural marxist manipulation that preys on the weaker mind is having a bit of a field day with all its sociological tools in fact, but its a human paradox involving real feelings nevertheless.
Perhaps true to remark that nature always will produce numbers who detest older people more and will struggle with such emotion. If so its a big problem combined with establishment determination to continuously update its models decade on decade that stir it up - all well and good. In an aeroplane though when such hate is even scrawled around the cockpit it doesn't harbinger well AT ALL! Also there would be obstacles concerning hypocrisy as age haters tend to demand other inequality removed where it suits them while concurrently THEY are inequality & judge mentalism machines against a chosen target. For that matter ageism is surely the most self loathing and cowardly target of all. So natural selection bites back very hard at times & the ultimate repayment is ageing to all it just stands to reason therefore is a very self destructive path. The basic fact is that the age phenomenon is inescapable & the elites stole the young people wealth & well being. How despicable it is that much lost was spent with psychological companies teaching those who were robbed not to know who by!
The universe has a great sense of humour in these ways as only nature knows how to dispense Equality of Justice & it'll be a pigs ear under politicians. There's no such thing as a hate free lunch such as the UK is trying to make possible right now - NO such thing whatsoever. Theres older people cognitively crashing all over Britain under the stress of being hated because after all 'they caused all the problems' didn't they ?. Key didn't - & no ordinary person like him did. Reasonable people know that ordinary people without wealth have no power or control over what ruins any life with regard to public wealth and policy. The elite have done whatever they wanted whilst quite ignoring the will of the people.
We all best be careful what we wish for just as this crew had best at that time. Its everyones turn to be accused of ruining young peoples lives one day because the elite who take the wealth ( that impairs ALL young lives ) make sure that the older non affluent get the blame!!. Theres been a different version of it in every decade since the end of WW2 & the 70's version was almost as vicious as '2020's' essentialist dystopian model of hating the 'old'. While what is said of the ancient greek experiments with misanthropy ? The masses find out in the end that they were taught to hate anyone in the underclasses including themselves.
The crew procedures were bad, the accident report identified widespread deliberate dangerous actions and basic errors throughout the BEA Trident fleet, healthy pilots were involved. One captain claimed that when asked 50% of inexperienced first officers would disconnect the stick shaker/pusher at the first sign of its activation.
This is a very reasonable comment. There does not seem to be any actual evidence that he had a heart attack or that he was experiencing extreme pain. That is indeed speculation.
There was a series called Air Crash Investigation that went into this crash in great detail, including the forensics. It might be on You Tube if you search for it. Fight to the Death was the name of the episode.
@@johnhead1643 Indeed. As an RAF WWII pilot he would have been a young pilot himself, working with other "tweenage" pilots, taking risks - not as much as the Poles, however - and watching 14 young RAF pilots die or be captured every week. So I don't see "ageism" from his side. The fact that hostile graffiti was in the flightdeck for two weeks is worrying...didn't they clean the planes, or bring that to someone's attention? 1972 was a "rebellious" period in history and "our chaps" were used to mutual respect. I wonder if he had a couple of cognacs after the altercation...we will never know now...but really really sad...
Years ago we did a fire course, the fireman doing the course attended this accident. He said he saw passengers strapped in dead, as though asleep. All suffered basically broken necks or internals.
My goodness 😢
There were survivors from the crash but sadly due to sightseers blocking the roads in Staines the ambulances struggled to get through.
Oh
Not true.
Media created Urban Myth.
Road closed, cars drove onto grass to allow emergency services access.
It’s scary isn’t it!
How much of Our Deeply Held Personal Beliefs And Factual Information turns out to be simply the imaginations of tabloid journalists. People who are paid to create entertainment and a diversion from more relevant information.
Do you think that had anything to do with why they died? Did that come from The Sun?
It’s not true. I’ve read numerous accounts of this accident and this was fabricated by a certain newspaper, whose integrity and truthfulness are known to be non-existent. @@beenaplumber8379
According to the Sun, a coach full of Liverpool fans arrived at the crash site and urinated on the victims.@@beenaplumber8379
One thing not mentioned in the video was that the stick pusher had shown a large number of false activation over many months prior to this accident. My father was also a Captain on Trident at that time. When I asked him why he thought the stick pusher had been turned off he pulled out his log book and was able to find 5 or more incidents where he had experienced a false activation. In the first of those he explained that there was no way to disable it and that he and the co-pilot, between them, were only just strong enough to hold the controls back during their emergency return and landing. They each had one foot braced against the dash leaving one foot each to activate the brakes. After this (i believe) a valve was fitted such that the hydraulic pressure could be released.
My father believed that during this flight the Captain assumed the stall warning to be false whilst being unaware of the slats being withdrawn. It does not however answer why he did not hit the throttles (to hell with noise abatement) in response to the low airspeed.
In later years BA introduced 'failure to respond' scenarios into simulator sessions where a member of the crew were taken aside before the simulator 'flight' and asked to behave unnaturally at a certain point to see how the rest of the crew dealt with it.
The crash report said there were a small number of stick shaker errors but after the initial debugging after introduction the stick pusher was almost 100% reliable and analysed pilot disagreements were down to the pilot not being aware of their configuration and performance errors. The report did not paint that generation of pilots in a good light, there were a lot of similar near incidents.
What an awesome idea for crew training! Is an unnaturally behaving crew member an emergency? I mean, in an aircraft that requires at least two crew members, I would imagine the loss of one of them (for whatever reason) would mean discontinuing the flight ASAP.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 almost 100% reliable is not convincing for a failsafe of this nature. I would not be comforted by that if I were a pilot
@@jd980 The report put the safery improvement firmy on the side of the hardware, do you doubt that in all probability pilot error killed all those passengers and the crew? Keeping your passengers safe is a pilot's ultimate priority and duty.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 no why do you ask
You covered a complex accident extremely well with this one.
nah, he literally messed it up at every turn, half of it was made up.. I mean, there's no such place as Brittin. Whateven place is that even at all? cmon
@@brovid-19 dude? 😳
@@brovid-19 tired joke
@@brovid-19 Based
I was in hospital in 2019 when another patient in the same ward told me about this accident his best man at his wedding was cabin crew on this flight he said he never got over losing such a close friend
Very sad
I was a Trident 1E captain in Pakistan International Airlines in the late 1960s. It was a unique aircraft in many ways. We had normal control yokes, not the "motorcycle" type. It had a poor performance in ground summer temperatures (around 40C) and it could barely maintain Mach .78 in cruise. In winter it was a different plane! It could climb at 3000 ft/min plus and cruise at Mach .88. It was the only airliner that I have flown that had a different autopilot for roll and another one for pitch. In and emergency descent the two side engines could be used in reverse to get down fast. An approach was made by the pilot flying using the control column and the pilot not flying handling the three throttles on the PF commands. Getting below the computed airspeed was dangerous. The plane could take on a high descent rate without changing attitude and descend uncontrollably in what would appear to be a normal attitude until ground impact. We only had four Trident 1Es and they were delivered a year late. The penalty cost the manufacturer a lot of money. A somewhat inebriated company executive told one of our flight engineers at a party for the first delivery flight, that the money would be recovered by raising the prices of spares. This happened and the Tridents became too expensive to operate. The plane was streets ahead in advanced systems so the Chinese were interested and they bought them from us and ordered many more. When they were warned about the spares trap, the simply said that they would make their own spares! Once you knew her idiosynchrancies the Trident was a delight to fly manually. Group Captain Cunningham, the DH Chief Test Pilot showed us how to shorten the landing roll by taking reverse in the air before touch down . This took a bit of skill---too high and there would be an unpleasant thump! Only one other captain, besides myself practiced this. Once after take off from Karachi, a new copilot ( from the B 707s) when I asked for flaps up, retracted both the flaps and the L/E Slats. (as happened in this accident case.) the flashing warning lights came on and I immediately reached over and extended the L/E flaps--or we would have mushed down to a crash. We did not have that map display but in that place we had a warning system that illuminated , telling you what was the problem . This illuminated "L/E " but I had already taken remedial action. We always tested the "Stick Pusher" before the flight in the pre start cockpit checks. We trained the Chinese to fly the Trident and one rueful training flight instructor told me it was a bit hair raising as he had to issue instructions through and interpreter who translated English to Chinese! Loved flying the Trident--it was my first jet command--but you had to give her respect!
A great video as always. I think it was really a mix of everything: tensions in the cockpit, the captain suffering a heart failure etc. Of course, we're all humans with our biases, grudges and emotions, but in the ideal world those should stay outside of the cockpit.
At certain points in my career as an airline pilot, I was a witness to tension between picket line crossers and strikers. I can tell you that it made for tension on the flight deck between them and made for an unpleasant work environment.
Scabs always do. They profit from being a scab and then they profit from others taking strike action. They should be made to feel unwelcome.
@@baronburch6702 I never had any use for them.
I vividly remember when this happened, even though I was only a child at the time. It was such a needless accident, so easy to avoid. CRM has come a long way since then.
I have a feeling CRM only became a thing much much later...
I want to say after Tenerife, which seems a few decades after the Tridents in my mind (though cannot be sure)
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 You are right. I didn’t mean to imply that this incident precipitated the CRM changes, just that a lot has changed in the intervening years. On the other hand, I am sure lessons were learned.
@@gosborg I wasn't saying you did, I am just pointing out, this was not even the beginning of the road for CRM...
was always amazed how much time it took for people to start moving in that direction...
I mean I do understand engrained want of hierarchy, top-dog and all, but still, they put the other pilots there for a reason!
The crash at Tenerife was in 1977 and it was one of many crashes at the end of the 70s and into the 80s which provided much impetus for CRM. @@stanislavkostarnov2157
Also, something that needs to be talked about more these days, is age-related vascular dementia. Two of my family members had it. It's a slow clogging of the arteries to the brain, thus gradual oxygen deprivation in the brain. It's insideous, and people adjust to it somewhat and thus minimize the effects, and it's much less striking than other dementias. Personality changes are a hallmark of the start. People often become more extreme in their political and religious beliefs or change them altogether, or just more of what's already there, like anger, perhaps violence, depression, paranoia, and denial. And forgetfulness, of course, but not too noticeable at first. Also inflexiblility, unable to adjust to a changing world. High cholesterol, smoking, and heart disease are risks, as along with heart issues, other blood vessels are affected/clogged similarly. These days, they can easily clean out the build-up in the neck arteries. It can be detected by ultrasound, I believe. Getting the senior to have these simple procedures is often difficult, though.
You've described the symptoms that I - unknowingly - have but now know. Thank you. I'll endeavor to see my doctor about this if I can get an appointment, that is.
I wanted to make sure that this was never my problem and more than thirty years ago I became plant-based and I juice and avoid junk food and so forth
lol this reads like the rant of a young hippie accusing any older conservative of being demented due to vascular oxygen deprivation.
Hah, you had me for a minute! Good one!
Yep took my grandpa recently he was normal until like 6 months before then went off a cliff. He couldn't even talk at the end its horrible
I remember this accident vividly. I had just applied to British Airways as a trainee pilot and may have gone on to fly Tridents.
@Pat Luxor Really? What stopped you?
Do you mean BEA or BOAC maybe? British Airways was formed in 1974 from a merger of those two, this accident was in 1972.
I remember the Trident and even flew aboard several to and from Yugoslavia during my family trips to Yugoslavia in the 70s. My last flight on a Trident was in August 1981 from Zagreb to LHR. I sat on one of the rear-facing rows just ahead of the wing on the right-hand side. She was an excellent plane and a loud one at that.
The irony of Key seeing strike action as unprofessional, only for him to very unprofessionally blow up at his colleague about the subject of strike action.
I don't blame him
My wife's parents were killed on BEA 548. We went to the 45th anniversary in Staines , Met Mike Bannister, the BEA chief concord pilot, and his wife, along with Nurse Frances, who was the first to arrive on the scene. We also met 2 of the news reporters who arrived on the scene right after the crash. Met several relatives who's family members perished on the flight. I always believed that Captain Key was a victim of circumstance, that his unknown heart ailment may have contributed to the crash, but his younger, immature colleagues were too inexperienced to correct or overcome the unfortunate chaos that happened on the flight deck. I feel, Captain Key was a good guy and great pilot, although he was the butt of jokes from the younger and inexperienced pilots below him. The younger pilots wanted to strike, the older pilots were more mature and just wanted to do their jobs. Good documentary, thanks...
Oh, my. Sorry about your wife's parents.
The situation in the airline at that stage was toxic, the strike action had pitted the junior pilots against their older more experienced captains and in Cpt. Keys case graffitti had been spotted on a Trident's engineering panel that stated that Keys felt he was god.
The other problem with the situation was that the Trident for all of it's advances to counter deep stall had issues with the air operated control systems and they did malfunction and were isolated in some cases, taken with the Naples Incident where an alleged mechanical malfunction or misuse of the droops had nearly caused a Trident to stall you had an aircraft that while it could land itself could in certain circumstances prove very tricky to keep flying.
Key's outburst prior to the flight was described by a witness as being one of the most violent and aggressive verbal attacks he had ever witnessed on someone, but credit must be given to Cpt. Keys for apologised to his victim before the ill fated flight took place.
I frequently pass by the crash site and always think of that incident and the people on that plane for whom there would be no escape as it was a totally avoidable and more to the point a totally preventable accident had the situation within the airline and within the cockpit been better managed
We were flying in a Northeast Trident that took off 5 minutes after, my late grandfather had dropped us at Heathrow and heard about the crash. It took a day before he found out it was BEA.
@@darreng745 A balanced and coherent assessment of the ethos in the company
Sending condolences to your wife. I can't imagine losing loved ones like that 😢
there's a lot going on here, but you explained and kept it all in check perfectly! great video, as always :)
Thanks so much for watching!!!!
@@DisasterBreakdownthank you for working yourself off for this stuff! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
I'm from Staines (for my sins), and my parents saw that crash happen. They were coming back from visiting local family, driving along exactly that section of Staines Bypass (the major road next to the crash site). They didn't see the plane in the air, but were rocked by what seemed like a huge bomb going off, and saw a massive fireball. It was only later that they realised the full extent of what had happened. They've never talked about it much. Thanks for covering it so comprehensively.
@Derek morgan Hmm... maybe they remembering it wrong. By the time it came up in conversation it was something that had occured 40 years before.
Deffo no explosion....False memories I'm afraid.
@derekmorgan9250 Why would there have been no fireball?
@@Bob31415 pure luck I guess .
I once worked with a lady in Human Resources who had posted for the job that I got. I was new to the company. She had been there for 2 years. At first she was very helpful. But then she asked my boss to fire me and place her in my role. He refused (yep, this is what he told me). That is when she stopped talking to or even answering me when I said "good morning." No eye contact from her either. This was her problem, not mine. One year later Covid-19 craziness happened, she saw that I was fully engaged in the role and doing well when it came to following sanitary protocols. Then one day, she began talking to me like nothing had ever happened. I followed suit. Again, this was not MY PROBLEM. She is a VERY intelligent person and performs very well. Has a great intuition too. Bad situation for a while. But, I think, mutual respect. That is what this flight crew was missing. Mutual respect.
Mutual respect can totally change contentious situations. It has become my golden rule.
Good for you in keeping things in that realm.
That was an outstanding video! I’ve been an air traffic controller since 2001 and really look forward to you new videos. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this and every other video!!!
I was 14yrs old and obsessed with aviation, living at the time in Pooley Green not far from Staines. Much of my time was spent in the garden with my fathers binoculars watching the planes coming over our house. I was doing this when I heard the impact and saw the smoke rise to the North of us.
To correct the record, the worst aircrash on UK soil was the Lockerbie incident on 21/12/88 killing all 269 onboard plus 11 on the ground.
Wasn't an accident though...😉
I was thinking the same thing. He said this was the worst incident twice. He said "in Britain" but Scotland is part of Britain. He would have been correct if he said "England".
@@cat137"Not including acts of terrorism" rules out Lockerbie.
It's pretty sad how such immature people can end up being responsible for other people's lives.
It's sad how people can grow into their 50s and still be so immature.
Some people truly do hate unions and it clouds there otherwise judgement.
Fantastic video and informative. I have mentioned before that my mum was in a local hospital in Staines in 1972. I would have been six at the time. I went with my dad to visit my mum on that Sunday and I commented to my dad, why were there so many emergency vehicles around. When we got home it was on the news what had happened.
I always think of this accident when I drive down the Staines by pass where it happened.
Thanks once again for the work you put into these videos.
The animation of the jet plummeting towards earth sent a major chill down my spine. Also, my gosh, what a toxic cockpit indeed.
toxic cockpits are a top concern of all aerolines, but things could be worse. imagine of someone's mis-gendered.
@@sheiladikshit5110 alright grandma, time for bed
@@sheiladikshit5110 like the chap creating these videos..? Haha
"Staines-upon-Thames" sounds like a town with a severe self-confidence problem. Like, c'mon, you're a fine little town, I bet, there's no need to call yourself a stain.
It changed it's name from Staines to Staines-upon-Thames in 2012 following an Ali-G comedy sketch shown on UK television during the 1990's.
Remarkable but true.
I used to pass Stains on the Reading - Waterloo line on my way to work in Richmond in a job I hated. Sadly every stop on that line has a negative memory in my mind lol
I remember this 'story' breaking on the BBC 6 O'clock news the day it happened. I couldn't believe that a perfectly functional aircraft with three engines could stall and 'fall out of the sky' like that. I was only a child at the time. One of our neighbours happened to be a BOAC maintenance engineer. It seemed to be the only thing that he and my dad talked about for months afterwards.
I was 18 at the time, and remember this well. It was always referred-to as the "Papa India disaster", from the aircraft's last two registration letters (some of this video shots show this, others are of other aircraft). This video doesn't mention the stick shaker, which normally precedes the stick pusher, but the out-of-configuration state caused them both to happen together, compounding the startle effect and possibly causing the thought that the system was malfunctioning, leading to it being disconnected. Before this video I hadn't heard about the fact that they were well below the speed they should have been, as well as the droop retraction. Today's "you learn something every day" item. Great video.
I flew the Trident many times in the late 70's and early 80's. It is still the worlds second fastest commercial jet after Concorde. It was loud but always fun to fly in
Wasn't the Convair 880/990 slightly faster than the Trident?
@@nkt1 I think you may be right, there wasn't much in it. I know the Trident 3 was like a rocket
the sovjet concorde to
@@ThePapaja1996 That didn't do much though did it
@@nkt1 The 990 was a little faster in the cruise but our descent Mmo/Vmo profile had the edge at .88/365kts. Being able to deploy the outboard thrust reversers also gave some operational “flexibility” during descent!
Thank you for this video. I was a child in London at the time of this disaster and remember being shocked hearing the news on that Sunday. I was very keen on aviation and patriotically proud of England’s pioneering innovative aviation industry, frustrated that the government had cancelled the amazing TSR2 fighter bomber, and therefore the thought of a Trident crashing on a weather-wise perfect day, was unimaginable. Thank you for so sensitively and so accurately presenting the facts.
I have to wonder whether Key was actually having a full-on heart attack, and the rest of the crew were trying to deal with too many things at once.
Go for the simple explanation first, a human error. We all have had almost accidents and nobody is perfect.
My father RIP was a captain on the Trident from the mid 60s to the mid 70s. He loved flying it. Very advanced for it's time. CATIII Zero visibility Full Auto land capable. Very fast cruised at M0.88 and can cruise at M0.96 if fuel consumption is not a problem. Had fans to cool the brakes. Was capable of 10,000 fpm descend rate using reverse thrust in flight. A great aircraft. It's only weakness was it's poor take-off performance in hot weather.
M 0.96 once by test pilots during development!
My friends father was a fireman from nearby Slough that attended the crash site. He told us that it was an horrific scene. The aircraft had hit the ground hard on its belly. Most of the passengers that had been in the brace position were found in their seats with their spines sticking up behind their heads due to the massive impact.
WTF
Gruesome 😬; that would be hell to see in person for the first responders 🥺
Omg that's raw 🙈
So there are situations where the brace position does absolutely nothing and may actually make things worse. Good to know
I remember this accident from the Mayday: Air Disasters show. I feel sorry for the old guy.
RIP everyone who died in that crash.
Old guy? He was in his early 50s. Which happens to be where I am now. He sounds like someone who learned something 100 years ago and that was it. Doesn't sound like a fun guy to be around no matter what your relationship
You arrogant pup! The man was 50 years old, hardly an 'old guy'.
You dont remember this accident since a show told you about it *****
Congratulations on covering this so well. The Trident was a superb aircraft, although the Trident 1 (G-ARPI was a Trident 1) was very underpowered, its Rolls Royce Spey engines only developing 9,600 lbs of thrust each (the Trident Two & Three had engines pushing out nearly 12,000 lbs thrust).
So after the initial climb out on take-off power, the thrust reduction to 70% was considerable and resulted in a rate of climb of a mere 500 ft/min (compared to today's airliners that achieve rates far in excess of that) and you soon realise that with an airspeed of 156 knots, the super-stall immediately doomed them all. BEA pilots at the time were deeply untrusting of the Trident's stick-push system as they'd had so many false warnings. It required a force of about 90 lbs to overcome it manually, so the dump lever was the first thing to be pulled.
Many pilots rehashed this accident in the simulators. It WAS possible to recover, but ONLY if the DROOP was IMMEDIATELY selected out again, throttles were firewalled to give full power, the nose pushed forward and then immediately the speed was seen to recover, only then eased back on the control column.
The simulator trace would show a recovery only feet above ground level....
All pilots need time to evaluate any aircraft incident before responding, factor that in and this was an UNRECOVERABLE tragedy.
Once again, well done for bringing this excellent production to TH-cam.
A true and accurate consideration of events - I do wish the speculators would re-read the BoI conclusions before jumping in with their sometimes inane comments
Something I love about the trident is about the trident is that the nose gear is just off to the left and its entirely british. Its just the aircraft that will annoy anyone with ocd
Thanks for the video. I learnt some new things. I didn't know that the graffiti had probably been made 2 weeks prior. For some reason I thought it was scribbled just before the flight. I didn't know about the T-tail design having that stall quirk either. Yes, this accident is a perfect example of why a flight-deck voice recorder is needed.
Damn, I was not expecting this and Aeromexico flight 498 to be the preceding episodes for the Zagreb mid-air collision, my guess back on the last week's comment section became a huge miss lol.
This and last week's Disaster Breakdown are very well done. I'll be looking forward towards next week's episode of Disaster Breakdown about the Zagreb mid-air collision.
Ok. I'm a bit obsessed with your channel. Once again, a flawless telling of another plane disaster. I love the background and history you provide and how you make the technical stuff easy to understand
Oh goodness, I looked up the event I THINK you’ll be covering next week (1976?), and there’s so many layers to it, but talk about a disaster happening in the blink of an eye. Definitely a worthwhile one to talk about, though, since I haven’t seen any other major airline channel discuss this one. I know you’ll do it justice, Chloe. :) Wonderful job
And I think that you are in fact correct
Captain Key did nothing wrong. He was approached by a strike supporter, not the other way around. The man wanted to keep himself to himself, which is the way it should be.
How do you know captain Key did nothing wrong? There were no cockpit voice recorders so the atmosphere and conversation in the cockpit will never be known. We do know that the outburst in the BEA crew room prior to the flight and witnessed by many was enough to put Key into a rage, did this outburst trigger his heart attack? Was he in pain in the early parts of the flight and barking out orders? Did he retract the leading edge droops himself? Or was he still in such a rage that he commanded the droops be retracted by the co-pilot, who after witnessing his outburst in the crew room himself, could have been confused or even intimidated by his commands? We will never know due to the lack of cockpit voice recorders. He was clearly not liked much by his worked colleagues, hence the graffiti. Was he difficult to work with? What makes you so sure that he 100% did nothing wrong?
@@bobbank74 So evidence he did something wrong? Lol
boomer once removed
@@ramonmoreno8014 Fucking LOL, (once removed)!
Personally... I think it was a bad crew selection by BEA----putting two "novices" with a seasoned and war experienced senior pilot.
Pretty sure they showed disrespect and contempt for "the old guard"...... and maybe exacerbated the underlying health problems of the senior guy.
Without CVR...it is impossible to say what the atmosphere was like in that cockpit.
I think it foolish and disrespectful to speculate....to all the people who perished. RIP.
The Trident was nick-named "The Gripper" because of it's reluctance to take to the air. Longer versions of the Trident had a small fourth turbojet installed in the tail as can be seen in some of the great photos. An entire delegation of Irish industrial and exporting managers died in the accident.
I researched this accident extensively about 10 years ago - it is fascinating.
Due to the strike, the co-pilot (Keighley) was not trained to the highest standards and was being monitored by the third pilot/flight engineer (Ticehurst). Keighley was reported as being slow to respond to emergencies in training.
It is a mystery as to why Ticehurst didn't notice the speed dropping and the droops retracted.
The simplest explanation - and I have thought this through a LOT, almost daily - is that Captain Key's condition was so severe and distracting that the other three people on the flight deck were unable to prevent the plane entering a deep stall because they were trying to help him. Even though the medical evidence is thin, the idea that three other pilots (including Captain Collins in the jump seat - a trained Trident caption now flying Viscounts) were just sitting around in a panic or oblivious doesn't make any sense. The only person who may have been panicking a bit is Keighley due to his junior position.
I believe Captain Key may have had a massive heart attack and fell unconscious. The others would have tried to either remove him from his seat (very difficult) or instruct Keighley to fly the plane.
The idea that the crash happened almost subtly is, in my view, nonsense. Professionalism and lives depended on them getting it right - surely only a massive health incident could have distracted them that much?
Footnote: I have seen at least one web article where the captain's daughter hotly disputes the heart attack theory!
I remember this accident very well because a friend and I rode our bikes to the crash scene. We both lived in Staines of course and were in the town when the plane came down so rode as fast as we could to where it came down. We knew the quickest way there. The emergency services were on the scene when we got there so couldn’t get too close but l do remember that we could quite clearly see the plane. Well what was left of it. My father worked for BEA at the time and was, if I remember correctly, on duty that day and it effected him quite badly. It was an extremely upsetting time for all the people involved especially the emergency services, BEA, Heathrow Airport and the people of Staines.
I live in Staines. There is memorial window in the local church. At the time of the accident we were going home by train. We saw the jammed roads. The town has never forgotten the sccident
Another example of how important it is to have respectful communication between colleagues. I've listened to a lot of these reports on air disasters and so many of them have this toxic background in the cockpit anger, resentment , tension, lack of knowledge which have all contributed to crashing they have to talk to each other so they can diagnose the problem and that's obviously the most major thing
I remember this accident. Sight-seers went and stopped nearby on the M4 motorway afterwards, some allegedly even took picnics.
A national newspaper the following day described this with the headline 'GHOULS'. Sickening behaviour.
I lived close to Heathrow and remember that crash, not far from my late Uncles home. At the time capt Ticehurst got a lot of blame re the flaps, but the mix was a perfect storm. I also remember the disgusting public who were looting the contents from the wreckage, close to the reservoir…. 50 plus years ago like yesterday.
My late Brother was a head designer on Concorde at Fulton but spent most of his time in France at Aero Spatiell Toulouse… that plane was tested far beyond all others, and it took as he said usually a pilot/ human error to cause accidents….which he investigated. Again there were some debatable issues on the plane, weight/ fuel being pushed to the limit, it was a combination of that.Concorde was his life’s main
I'm always impressed by you knowledge and breakdowns of a vast assortment of planes and different technical components on each type making it easier for us *lay persons* to follow along.
Thanks for watching!
I’m impressed as well,
An excellent video on this flight. This is one of my "favorite" accident but it is hardly covered by other informational websites, perhaps in my historical search there are only about 5 websites (including TH-cam Channels like yours) out of the hundreds that are out there that covers this accident.
Excellent work! Kudos to you for making this video.
My father tells a story that I always think about when I read/watch something on this accident anyway, he was an RAF pilot from the early 1960s through to the 1980s. Back in the mid-60s he was a co-pilot on Shackleton's and he was with a senior pilot this particular day and the procedure for take off at this airfield included checking that they had clearance on take off to cross a railway track(I kid you not!). So the pilot lines up and sets off down the runway, my father challenges him saying we don't have clearance... and sure enough turned out they didn't so they abort take-off and go again. The following day my father was hauled in in from of the Squadron Commander and told in no uncertain terms never to challenge the officer commanding the flight again! Clearly that's the kind of background Captain Key was coming from.
WOW! Incredible!! Shaking head here...
It was a big factor in the deadliest ever plane crash too - Tenerife 1977
I was there on that day. My parents lived close by and I we had just finished lunch when we heard the radio newsflash. My Dad (61 at the time) said, let's go and see! My mother declined, naturally, but I went with my father. We expected to see a belly flopped plane and passengers climbing out. So close to the airport, it didn't occur to us that there could be fatalities. We were among many who crowded the road by the crash scene. Later when the full horror became known the press called us, the sight-seers, "ghouls." I guess that they were right.
I was 24 at the time and my Danish girlfriend and I made made short flights like this from Heathrow, and Gatwick. The implication of this fateful flight stayed in my mind for many years to come.
There's a time for labor relations, and a time to fly the plane. It appears that perhaps the pilots forgot this basic rule. I would bet, because of their differences, the two young co-pilots were not communicating with the senior pilot and therefore not working together.
Very cool to hear the history of the Concorde-style yoke, I love how Embraer still uses them today. Sad to hear of such unprofessionalism as graffiti in the cockpit though, I would not want someone who would do that flying 100+ passengers around.
Unprofessional perhaps... but in the absence of a cockpit voice recorder this graffiti gives us an insight into the toxic environment on this flight deck...
What an amazing vid!
The information and quality of the content in it is just as detailed as a air crash investigation episode. Definetly I will be watching your videos more often. Continue like that!
RIP to everybody aboard flight 548
I remember this so well.
I was a frequent 'spotter' with my air band radio at Heathrow.
My uncle flew the Comet .
Great video.
This is a very well researched and presented video. I was living in Kent at the time, and news of the crash
came on the early evening TV news. Over the next few days, reports came out that Captain Key was
at a pilots meeting just before flying the plane, took the controls in a towering rage and had a heart
attack during the take off. It was said that the co-pilot was perhaps not very experienced, might have panicked, and was unable to correct the stall. Tragic accident.
I like it when these videos use older simulators than MSFS 2020 when describing old pre-2000 accidents as it helps gives the feel of the era.
A very good summary, relecting the accident report. Many other teenagers and I were sailing on a very nearby reservoir. The wind that day was awful. Of many dinghies that day, only three of us managed to stay upright long enough to finish the race. In my case only using the jib ... I still have the trophy.
Although I was always puzzled as to whether the captain was actually suffering from heart pain, there were clearly serous issues with the crew's performance. prior to the flight.
One factor that always surprised me was there was no significant mention of the wind. Of course the aircraft should have been flying faster, but were they also unlucky with an unhelpful wind shift? From memory we had white water on the reservoir, with severe changes in wind direction. A glance at that day's wether chart will show what was happening.
This plane is new to me. Thanks for sharing and thanks for your work. Love your channel!
22:28 But let us not criticize the fact that the noise abatement procedures force the pilots to fly at less than full thrust, possibly wiping out any speed margin that might have prevented the crash. Oh no, got to keep it quiet for the neighbours.
I actually live in staines, a minute from the park where a memorial plaque lays. last year (2022) I had seen a meeting of veterans donating flowers on the anniversary day. moreover when you walk to the ponds on the right in the field you can see the real crash site.
Thanks for the high quality content once again! ❤️
If I remember correctly, the father of one of my sister's friends was a senior police officer on-site. Years later as a Chief Inspector he was on-site at the Moorgate tube disaster.
Moorgate...was that the one where the train overshot a station and slammed into a dead end and telescoped into itself
@@Giratina575 yes, it was
Great video as always, could you do a video on Malaysian airlines flight 17 please it's such an interesting story. Keep up the good work Chloe I absolutely love your work!!!
I just shared an NPR article on her Twitter page that talks about the recent findings. Would be an interesting video, I agree.
Yeah just saw that. Reading it right now actually!
A very good breakdown of this accident. I like the matter-of-factly, no-drama style. It's unfortunate that the parties involved aren't around to tell what actually happened. I believe that Captain Key was a fine pilot, and there are so many scenarios that could have played out here, including copilot moving controls and not making call-outs, or a fight over the controls. It's hard to imagine, even with his health condition, that this salty old pilot would not be aware of his airspeed or pitch attitude.
The Hawker Siddeley HS-121 Trident and the Vickers-Armstrongs VC10 were two of my loves in British aviation.
Ive always felt, that Captain Key was judged very harshly and unfairly in the crash, while the 2 young pilots were allowed to just basically get off with no responsibility. Why?
Well, first Captain Key. Yes, he was very set in his ways, an oldfashioned captain used to being the unquestioned boss - but thats how he was taught and how it was back then. And he was not the 1 looking for fights or confrontations. The argument b4 the flight was provoked by the strike supporter, who sought out Captain Key despite knowing, or perhaps due to knowing, that Key was against the strike. Captain Key just wanted to keep to himself and do the job and expecting the same professionalism from the other pilots.
He certainly did not get that professionalism from his flight crew. The 2 come off as very unprofessional, disrespectful, intolerant towards any1 not agreeing 100% with them and more busy with juvenile schoolboy taunts than doing their jobs. Theres plenty of blame to go around between humans and systems alike, but I really think, their atrocious behavior was inexcusable. Whatever differences they had with Captain Key and others, it did NOT belong in the cockpit. Those 2 were clearly not ready for the jobs, they were given, regardless of whatever skills they might have had with aircraft operations.
Personally I think, that the 2 young pilots were the big winners of the plane not having a CVR. We were all losers for not having valuable information, that mightve answered most of or all of the unanswered questions. Captain Key wouldve been served well with the certainty of what happened, rather than every1 of us speculating for 50 years, almost exclusively focused on the captain. While the CVR might have been a verbal proof of the utter unprofessionalism of the 2 younger pilots and have turned the spotlight on them, their behavior and their performance in the cockpit.
Yes, Captain Key was not without fault. In a fatal accident its basically impossible for any of the crew to be completely blameless. But considering the record of Captain Key and the others, considering the behaviors in the period b4 the flight, considering the graffiti found in the cockpit and what that entails, I personally find it much more likely, that the fatal mistake(s) were from the co-pilot than from the captain. As Captain Key had not previously shown any symptoms of the disease, that was discovered at his autopsy, I think that to be a red herring.
you're right. In those days the union heavies would have attempted to bully Key into submission.
The bias against Captain Key in this video was glaringly obvious to me.
As far as I am aware it was established that Captain Key was flying. The sequence of events therefor would have been that the RHS (right hand seat) pilot started his stopwatch as they rolled and subsequently called “90 seconds, flaps 5, climb thrust” and actioned both those selections. The pilot in the LHS would be focussed on instruments and therefore not monitoring the flap/droop selection - this was the duty of the monitoring third pilot (P3). Any mis-selection of the droop lever would therefore likely have been by P2 in the RHS
@@Kathikas1 A bad set up in the cockpit, BEA should have had a professional Flight Engineer in the cockpit, not some Pilot with minimum flight hours who didn't want to be a systems operator. BOAC had the full 3 crew with F/E for operations with Comet/B707/B747/VC10/Concorde and they were a good outfit.
@@Kathikas1 So rhs was setting the flaps and droops ? Better to blame someone you didn't train, for health reasons, than blame your companies new pilots.
Very well covered . Direct to the events of this disaster .
The post mortem of the captain showed that he has atherosclerosis. They couldn't prove that he had a heart attack or stroke and that this is what caused the crash. That's perhaps a tempting deduction given the evidence, but we don't have the proof of that.
A cardiologist commented elsewhere on this post, saying the same as you - an autopsy would have confirmed whether or not his health affected the crash.
Thank you for this video.
The Trident was a beautiful aircraft but I'm English so a bit of bias.
Like most British commercial pilots of that time, Key was ex Royal Air Force so he would probably have had more of a 'sense of duty' than some of his colleagues.
A strange (though tragic coincidence)
Sunday 18th June 1815 was the
Battle of Waterloo, Brussels.
Like the British Midlands air crash at
East Midlands Airport, (seventeen years later) the aircraft narrowly misses a motorway.
Could have been much worse but of course no consolation to the victim's relatives.
Rest In Peace all on BEA 548 that day. 🇬🇧
I read an article on this accident that stated that the graffiti in the accident plane was by no means unique. There was similar insulting scribbles in other planes and in different handwriting. It seems that there was a lot of discontent among the younger employees.
This air crash has always impacted me. Two members of my family were airline pilots at this time and we discussed the condition of this crew many times over the years. Trident was an excellent airliner, typical British well-engineered craft. Something out of ordinary happened the last few moments of this flight, the theory it was impacted by the Captain's physical and perhaps emotional state is certainly plausible. RIP to the crew and passengers.
If I'm correct, British "Decca" was the same company that made phonograph records. I understand the moving map display concept was originally developed in the U.S. - but sold to Decca. I was in Vietnam in 1968 as a young helicopter pilot. A number of our helicopters had the Decca moving map display installed for testing. I used it a number of times. It took us to within sighting distance of our objective. No, not today's GPS quality or accuracy, but quite impressive for its day.
An alternative hyperbolic grid navigator to Loran, based on WW2 Gee.
Wasn’t the Lockerbie disaster the deadliest one to take place on British soil?
He says the deadliest one exclusive of terrorist attacks.
When you speak of Britain in the early commercial air industry, the Comet sadly comes to mind, though what was learned from the Comet was priceless for airliner design, it shows what happens when speed is more important than safety.
Comet encapsulates nearly everything that was wrong with British industry at the time. Great designs overriden by incompetent management and hamstrung by rigid hierarchical structures. It's more or less the same issues that underlay the R101 disaster too
Neville Shute covered this in his autobiography (he worked on both and No Highway (to the sky)) really was about Comets
PS Very well made episode. The first 'triplex' aircraft, as after the awful Comet disasters De Havilland went over the top with safety so all systems were triplicated. First autoland, when the whole of Europe was fogged in only Tridents were flying. I watched dozens of them lined up at Heathrow with engines roaring, It pioneered the supercritical wing along with the VC10 which gave it the necessity for stick shaker as stall was not so obvious. The Trident wing still sort of lives on in Airbus, as the A300 supercritical wing was a development of the Trident design. With Hawker Siddeley still making Airbus wings... I think?
Yes the Tridents engines were very loud and Hawker Siddeley Aviation was by UK Gov Decree merged with other British Aircraft Coy's to form British Aerospace Engineering (BAE) and Airbus Wings are still made at HS Works at Filton,Bristol ,UK.
@@geoffhunter7704 😁
I flew on a trident as a young man. British Airways, from London Heathrow to Schipol. Comfortable.
Beautifully put together program. Thanks.
Most were killed sitting in their seats, still strapped in. How awful!
They died intact which is more than you can say for most plane crash victims.
Check out The Air Crash Bureau by Gary Numan.
I can't see how any less awful it would have been if they had not been in their seats.
Very interesting and informative. You make it easy for non-aviation people like myself to follow.
The mid-air Collision of a Hawker Siddeley Trident with an Inex Adria DC over Yugoslavia
Coming very soon!
One of the recommendations of the accident inquiry was that occurrence reporting should be mandatory. Prior to the accident BEA had had a couple of near misses when droop was retracted below minimum speed but the crews got away with it. At least one of these incidents was reported internally but no management action had been taken.
Mandatory Occurrence Reporting was adopted placing a responsibility on the operator and regulator that incidents be reported and acted on.
This has been a major contribution to airline safety worldwide. Even if the incident does not lie within the remit of being reportable a voluntary report to the system can be submitted and is treated in the same way as an MOR. The MOR system also lists the type of incidents which must be reported. Crews filing an MOR can annotate that a copy goes to the aviation regulator immediately as well as the operator. The regulator reviews all MORs on a regular basis.
MOR's can be submitted by aircrew, engineers and also, I believe, air traffic controllers.
Sadly most aviation safety is built on hard experience and often death.
I remember the accident well as the two first officers on the crew had completed their training at the College of Air Training, Hamble, UK which was BEA/BOACs flying school for cadets. I had graduated from Hamble about 2 years before the accident although I never flew Tridents.
Like all accidents there were several holes in the Swiss cheese which lined up on the day of the accident.
We should keep in mind this was before the days of Cockpit Resource Management training where crews learn how to operate as a team and the pitfalls of not doing so.
Another recommendation of the report was that training should include pilot incapacitation procedures. This was adopted and incapacitation training and practise is now a routine part of 6 monthly simulator refresher rides for all pilots.
An accurate and relevant comment
661/Tridents
@@Kathikas1 692/B707s
A video about BOAC Flight 712 would be interesting.
I have never heard of that, I'll have to check it out!
Great suggestion! Reading the Wikipedia article about it, it seems like it would be a perfect fit for this channel. An engine detaching in flight, wow.
@@DisasterBreakdown A BOAC 707 that suffered from an engine failure which, 1 - tore the engine off the left wing and 2 - caused a fire that burned the plane down after it landed back at Heathrow.
One of the crewmembers on this flight was then F.O John Hutchinson, later known for his career in BA's Concorde Division.
Also of note for the BOAC 712 accident was the selfless sacrifice of Barbara 'Jane' Harrison who gave up her life trying to save 4 people who were still trapped in the burning 707, only to finally succumb to the smoke.
Hello Chloe, great video as always! Can you do a video of the crash of Garuda flight 865 that happened at Fukuoka Airport in Japan in 1996? I was living in Fukuoka at the time and this accident doesn’t seem to be covered much.
I'm sad. I love the Trident, it was the first airplane I ever flew in, summer of 1981 inbound to Heathrow. Some weeks later I took the chance to snatch a copy of a Trident boardingticket stickers element out of a full box at an empty BA counter late evening...Hung in my room for years. My apologies to BA, though, as a huge fan the little boy of then just couldn't resist :)
Good that you mention the phenomenon where many T-tail designs sometimes can't be unstalled. A strange fact - the Mayday episode about this disaster, as well as the one about the West Caribbean Airlines disaster, both fail to mention this. The cynic in me thinks this may be because the show gets funding from the Canadian government; at the time the main manufacture of T-tailed jetliners was Bombardier (who themselves lost a couple of aircraft and crews to this phenomenon in test flights). Maybe they didn't like the prospect of some Bloc Quebecois MP ranting in Parliament about taxpayers' money being used to throw shade at an iconic Quebec company.
The Boeing test pilot recovered a 727 but refused to reveal his technique in case it encouraged others to have a go.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Yeah, I gather the 727 is less subject to deep stall than most similar aircraft. One case that's sometimes cited is Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 6231, but this isn't really an example; the confused crew were holding it into the stall, and then it suffered structural failure.
@BB49 I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory; it doesn't require any vast conspiracy, just a few risk averse writers or producers not wanting to rock the boat. Yeah, they're still being made for business jets, and I wouldn't worry about flying on one, but I could see someone with the network not wanting to go there.
@BB49 You're missing the point. It's not that T-tails are all that dangerous (they aren't), just that someone might have been afraid of being seen to suggest that they were. Not that far out really.
Given that the show has done two episodes about accidents involving deep stall without mentioning the phenomenon, I just thought it odd. It's not like a difficult concept to understand; if you can understand stall, you can understand deep stall. So why would they shy away from it then?
@BB49 It made a difference for the recoverability of the situation. It didn't _cause_ the crashes per se; the cause of the crashes, like most crashes, was a confluence of factors, of which the aircraft design. But again, that's not the point, the point is that they might have been reluctant to be seen to imply that T-tails are less safe than other designs.
So again, since it was a factor (albeit one of many) and is mentioned in most discussions of the accidents (including this video) why the reluctance to talk about it?
Back in the days when things WERE actually made in the UK.
Gosh, if the younger pilots were collectively grafitti-ing the cockpit, I'm not sure Cpt. Key was wrong in considering them immature & irresponsible?? 😳 But the fact that their scribbles were there for several weeks & not reported by colleagues or removed by cleaners definitely seems to point to some wider issues within the wider airline too...? These tyoes of historical incidents just continue to reinforce the vital importance of modern CRM training.
Particularly excellent video. One of your best!
The photo of the tail section in the wreckage with the distinct ‘Trident’ on it is burned in my memory from childhood where I saw it my dad’s Plane Crashes book.
I think it's amazing that you include the musical information.
Yeah the Comet and its window design.
Oh it will be getting its own video at some point!
The windows never failed however ! Actually, the weakness in the aircraft skin and other supporting structures was due to a new method of riveting that caused minute fractures where the rivet was inserted because the hole was punched, not drilled. It's not widely known however..
This is the first time I have seen one of your videos. I'm so impressed with it, and of course I subscribed.
It’s amazing how hard smoking was on the heart in those days when so many had the habit.