Pasi, you are a Godsend! The BMW ECU tuning world is so messy and confusing, information is all over the place, and most of it is about US cars. Your 2 videos have cleared up a LOT! I just wish I would have seen your videos about the cables earlier, before I ordered a $50 TinyADS cable and a $30 RS232 expressCard for my laptop, because everybody on the Internet was saying "USB adapters don't work", "ADS needs a true serial", "K-line this, L-line that"... would've been better spent on chipster, and an RR donation. Well, live and learn.
what kind off work do you do for a living cause i studied car mechanic (highest level) and somethings i dont know even how you exceeded. like installing obd2. i learned things like can bus, can high, can low, lin bus flexray and more i forgot alot cause i been out off the cars by a year.. and btw how much hp has the bmw got and what mods. and further i saw that you have a bigger throttle body do you then to need to change maf settings cause its get more air at every throttle position? keep up the good work !!!
I work as software tester for wireless communication test equipment. So I haven't studied car stuff at all :D Its just been my hobby for long time. I don't know how much it has but I'm guessing ~250hp. I'm going to dyno it in coming weeks after I get my tune finished. I have bigger throttle body, m50 intake manifold, s52 cams, and equal length headers. Plus I'm running e85 with bigger injectors. In MAF based systems you don't have to tune the engine every time you make changes because the MAF measures how much air goes inside the engine. In for example MAP based or Alpha-N tuned engines you need to retune every time you make a smallest change. Because there is no MAF and the ECU doesn't know how much air goes in.
thanx for the reply. atleast you know you now your car stuff... pretty good.. nice line up off parts. i quess 250 wheel hp... no but i mean a ecu looks at more then 1 parameter to know that everything is alright(sensors) so i mean for example gaspedal is 50% (...ohm) and throttle body is two 50% then the ecu know that there needs be 2.3v to heat up the coil in the maf. but know you take a big bore throttle body so again 50% gaspedal 50% throttle body but cause there is a bigger throttle body there comes more air past the maf so it needs more volt to be the same temp. and the ecu says electric fault maf. cause there is a signaficant difference between the 3. sorry for my poor english
Thank you very much for the video and the definition files! I am looking forward to youtr next video =D At the moment i am building a M52B20 that i have laying around since 2010 from my first car (that i crashed...). I have bought a M51D25 diesel crankshaft (needs stub modification, but cheap as f...) with 82,9 mm stroke for total displacement of 2,5L in the end. I will use 135 mm rods from m52b28/m54b30 for compression of ~11,1. I am very thankfull that you share your knowledge! It will be a vital part to get my motor running =D
I would start from 84 bore engine like b25 or b28. The b20 head flows quite much less that b25 or b28 so even thought your engine will be 2,5 liters, it will be worse than stock b25.
thanks for the reply pazi. iam aware of that negative point. but where i live it is very convenient that my blocknumber still says 2.0 ;) its far from optimal and nobody should do it to expect lots of power. low rpm should be nice. for me its a cheap option because i have all the stuff laying around. i bought crank and rods (200€) plus gaskets so its not bad... what else would you do with a b20 besides paperweight =D greetings ps: do you have more info on flowtesting of the heads? i saw that the transitions from machined surface to cast runner were quite sharp. maybe with little port job theres some of the lost flow to get back....
Thanks so much! I knew something like mega log viewer had to be out there. I was dicking around in excel for so long... Doing an M50 manifold swap on my M54 soon and had to figure out tuning first. Also double thanks for taking the time to translate everything!!
Superb videos, should try tuning my m52b28 single vanos... Did m50b25 intake but no tune, because in Bulgaria many tuners are just enthusiasts... and not very professional... Your attitude and approach seams much more professional. Would rather learn to tune it myself, than giving 200-300euro for a generic map which may make the car worse to drive.
Thanks for this bro 100% i got a question though if its cool. Im putting a turbo on my m52 so do you think it would be ok to use 1000cc injectors with the nissan 350z maf?
I’m curious since this late model e36 had no obd2 port is it still OBDII CAN or does it still use the OBD1 CAN from previous models? I’m thinking of retrofitting an OBDII style connector in my 94 325i when I eventually get a standalone ecu
@pazi88 thanks for the idea to put the obd2 connection in the glove box, I looked through the ETM for my 1994 318 (s52 obd2 swap) and got the K line from the body control module, I'm not getting any communication through the connector though. Any ideas?
Hi from Russia). I use RR logger for e39 520 98 ms41. All fine but have one problem. I cannot see adaptations fuel and Knock. I see only info about no definition or no my id ecu. I use 0.43 def file. What I need add in xml def file for see this things?
@@pazi88 You make me want to tune my car, i always wanted but never find the way to learn, thank you. I have a B28TU with long inox catless headers, custom CAI and soon i will buy the B30 intake and also Cams in the future, do you think i will be a able to gain a good amount of power? How hard do you think will be to me to tune it? Is it there a lot of maps that i will have to modify? Thank you so much for your time.
Hey im having some issues. First issue. I cannot get the knock adaptation tables to show up the "learning table values" in the logger. Tho if i open the flasher then I can read the knock tables. Second issue. I cannot get the MAF section of the logger to log the red dots. What am I doing wrong
Hello! I really like the content. Could you tell me what voltages do you get from your lambda sensors(before cat). I have an e36 with m52b206s3 engine and I want to buy some sensors, but I don’t know if they are narrowband or wideband. From what I read I saw that they should be narrowband, but if I check voltages in inpa or any logger I find out that they are wideband and that the voltage is 4.83 before starting the engine. Could you help me? Also, I have changed my 1744897 ecu to a 1429861 one from an e39 with same engine. Could that interfere with anything. What universal sensor should I get, because with my 11781748762 part number from realoem from my o2 sensor I can’t seem to find any where I live.
M52 with ms41 uses narrowband lambda sensors. Unfortunately those are quite special titania type and there isn't universal replacement sensor for those. You need to get ones made for M52. I think NTK ones are OE and bit cheaper than sensors from BMW directly
Great point... Or even some cheap HVAC metal tape. I have used that successfully in shielding a DSL modem from HF energy when I was into ham radio. Used to reset the modem when I would transmit!!! Tape fixed it.... Cheers. Excellent work!!
Hello!! I have one question about logging, i have take a log looking for knock degree values, it was a wot pull at 2-3 gears. Always reading 0 so no knock. But i looked for LTV values (F6 at romraider logger) and it is showing some knock retard at certain rpm and load ... What values i should care about?
Hello guys,. can you help me, i can't connect romraider logger because, error: java lang array out of bounds extencion. ? help please, what's the problem.
Pazzi88. I can t open the lvt for my ms42 323i. I follow you on rr forum but.. when i click on lvt and click 'yes' see not the knock tables. Can you tell me why?
Hey Sipa! I've seen all your ms41 videos, and they helped me a lot so far. I am now trying to do some fine tuning but cant find a RR logger definition file for ds3 ms41.0.... please help!
Pazi E36 is life. Have you figured out some sort of two step launch control using romraider yet? It's been a while since I've looked into RR stuff for BMWs I've been using it for subarus for a while now though.
Two step requires software code changes to the ms41 unit itself. I think for ms43 there is already something like that. But for ms41 you can get regular launch control by upgrading to ms41.2. It has speed dependent rev limiter so if you put the rev limiter for example 2500 RPM below 3 mph, the rpm gets limited to that when the car is standing still. But after you get moving it uses the other set rev limiter.
I have euro 328i as well (ms41.0). Romraided forums says its possible to upgrade to ms41.2. What are the advantages and did u upgrade? If not, why not? And why are you using megasquirt in the turbo build instead of RR with ms41? Thanks and greetings from Holland (keep up the good work bro!!!)
In ms41.2 upgrade you only get speed dependent rev limiter and VANOS map plus obd2 diagnostic support (you can use torque on android etc). Rev limiter can be used as launch control and speed dependent VANOS map is useful because the m52 vanos is really slow. For example at first gear the vanos hardly manages to turn fully so you lose power because of that. But you can make it turn earlier with ms41.2 map at slower speeds to compensate that. But drawback is that you need to get rid off all the OBD2 emission stuff and also need to to full retune. So I haven't upgraded mine. I have only made the upgrade for the cars that I need to start from scratch. And i use megasquirt in my m52 turbo because at the time I built that, I didn't know you could tune ms41 for turbo (or even tune it at all).
Hey pazi. Please help me. I cannot make RomRaiderLogger work. I have installed everything like i should, but i will not connect to the car. INPA and ms41 quickflash works but not RomRaider Logger
Hey Pazzi I have a question.. When I try to connect to the romraider logger I get a message saying "Unable to send ecu init." I have the correct definition file, and I know the cable is good as I am able to read and flash tunes onto the ecu as well as use the regular romraider editor. Any advice on how to get the logger to connect to the ecu?
Hi! I see you have the missing definitions error when you start RomRider logger but it still connects to the ECU and displays values. How come? I have the same error and then I try loading the latest definitions (326 - which says it has support for MS41 1432401 as well) but it still doesn't connect to the ECU.
It's only missing the cars defintion which is needed for the dyno function. Did you change the protocol to ds2. I forgot to mention in the video that you need to do that. It was so obvious for me that I did forgot it :D
Hi! Yes, DS2 did the trick :) It is now connecting to the ECU and I see live data. Still, I can't read the ATVs. It says: "ecu definition file not found or undefined. adaptaion table values cannot be properly retrieved until an ecu definition is defined in the Editor's Definition Manager." Any idea why... ? I am using "logger_METRIC_EN_v326.xml". I see two places where I can load that in RRLogger: Settings\Logger Definition Location and File\Load Profile. Do I load the file in both places?
If I may ask for more help... I see different adaptaion values in INPA and RR. You already mentioned INPA values must be devided by 2, but the values still don't match: RR: Additive B1 -0.15ms Additive B2 -0.12ms Multiplicative B1 -4.09% Multiplicative B2 -2.13% INPA: Additive B1 -38 Additive B2 -29 Multiplicative B1 -11 Multiplicative B2 -6 If I am to trust RR values it doesn't look that bad! (I was scared about the INPA values) PS: lambda on bank2 is dead (flat line in RR and Inpa). I'll have to fix that.
Cosmin Rotaru Yeah the inpa shows about douple. Haven't checked accurate value :D But RR shows correctly. Yeah those are ok. Not perfect but no reason to swap maf to new one etc.
Hi Pazi, I made a log of a drive earlier today, my lambda sensors 1 and 2 are just 0 the whole time, but all the other logged items work like engine rpm and load, temperature etc. In inpa it just shows a static 4.83v and 4.88v which does not change. I actually unplugged both of the sensors to see if that would make a difference, inpa showed the same and so did romraider logger. Are my sensors dead? is there a connector i need to look for somewhere? When i ran the car with the sensors disconnected it did not even make an error code. car is a 1997 323i ms41.0 1429861
pazi88 thanks for the reply, okay I'll take it for a 15 minutes drive tomorrow and see if I can get a reading off them when I get home. No I didn't get any fault codes, I didn't even get fault codes when I unplugged them which I don't understand.
I did some more testing today, looks like the previous owner has installed zirconia type sensor, where i believe my car requires titania type (resistance) sensor, I had a look with the voltmeter, the sensor was putting out voltage (around half a volt), and the harness was putting out 5v for the resistive oxygen sensor. I also had another question for you I posted it here on romraider forums www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=11086&start=450, did you ever get access to the adaptations table through romraider logger on ecu 1429861, i can log values just fine but i cannot look at the adaptations and down the bottom left of romraider it says "CAL ID: Unknown", when i try it gives me error "ecu definition not found or undefined". I'm using the logger definitions v326 and the ms 41 ecu definitions v0.43, maybe you know how to modify the definitions file to allow me access to the adaptations table. Thanks for your help pazi, I appreciate it!
It had loooots of rust, all bushings, steering column worn out... It would need atleast double the car worth of money to put in and I needed a reliable daily car. But I would like to buy another one as project car :)
Ok, I am following the steps in your video, with the files u provided (ECU definitions for 1432401, same as mine ECU) set the protocol to DS2 K-line. I am able to flash, so I am connected. but i get the unable to send ecu Init. any idea's?
If it's ews ii unit i found pazi's thread on romraider, pin 2 from ews is k line, pin 5 and 7 are ground and 12v, red and brown, i just did it 5 minutes ago, works a treat, you just need to take off the cap on the diagnostic plug. and to connect some wires in the plug to allow programming voltage. I want to do this but i cannot sign up for romraider to get the definitions, when i try it gives me an error.
Do you know how to create A2L or Damos files? I have MS41.0 M52B25 with M50 Intake Is it possible to read the adapdations as a Map in the Flash and calculate it with the Base Fuel Map to get the perfect fuel Map? Is it Possible to tune WOT Fuel without a Wideband?
No I don't know how to create those and don't need because of RomRaider. The RR logger reads the adaptations from the ECU ram. Those are not stored in flash. You can calculate the base fuel map in Excel if you in example change injectors. And then you can fine tune it by checking the multicaptive adaptations. If it shows for example 4% enrichment you need to multiply your fuel maps by 1.04. (only the ones that are in ms). And then you can log the intergrators through the load range. Those should stay around 0% and if it goes up or down in specific load, you have to adjust the ms values in base fuel map for that load up or down. And after that there is no need for wideband in WOT tuning. The base map is 14.7:1 AFR map and the WOT map is % of enrichment to that. 15% enrichment means 12.5 AFR, 10% enrichment means about 13.5 AFR and so on. You will get best power with 13.5 AFR but you may need to richer to fight against knock.
hmm,.... i had read in the romrider forum that you should reset the adaptions with inpa/romrider logger so the adapton must be stored everywhere but with your description it should work..... do you change the wot detection for Fuel Base Tuning? (otherwise you can't tune the base Fuel at high Load?)
Clearing adaptations just clears the ram. Yes if you change all values to 120% in WOT detection map, it disables it and the engine is at closed loop whole time.
Hello, I can not get the rom raider logger to connect to my ecu, ms42 m52tub28... rom raider works, i have already read partial map and managed to write one too, but i just cant get logger to work... is there any special definition file for logger for ms42? i found something on romraider forum, but i cant get registered to download the files... could you please help? thanks.
@@pazi88 thank you allot, it worked. Also thank you for your time and effort, i have learned a lot through your videos. I will look to donate to you some amount i can afford atm... Thank you a ton!
@@pazi88 do you have maybe a working ms43 definition file? the one i downloaded from ms43 wiki can not open my friends e46 330ci file, it sais definition file not found?
Don't know yet. I will dyno it soon after I finish the e85 tuning. So hopefully within a month you will see video about how much it makes. Guessing for ~250 hp from crank.
so ive been using testo to log my turbo e46, how would i interpret the knock values testo gives out? for example if it reads 0.5 on a knock sensor, would that mean its retarding by .5 degrees at that load/rpm? or that it is reading .5 volts of feedback?
Yes it's reading 0.5volts from knock sensor. But there is not much you can do with that info because the logging speed is too slow to really show when engine is knocking. But in case of ms43/ms42 you can read the knock tables with RR logger same way as I showed here for ms41.
dang that was quick, thank you. Ive tried to log with RR and would prefer that method so i can log my AEM UEGO inline with the engine, but i cant seem to connect it to my car. ive tried several logging definitions, and also made sure it was on the correct COM port. However it always says unable to connect to ecu. Ill keep reading the RR forum i think im overlooking somthing
If you see the ecu id in the bottom, it's definiton problem. If you don't see it, it's wrong com port or some other setting error. Like not using DS2 protocol. And you need to close all other programs that could use the com port.
dont laugh lol, i was trying to log with an unpacked zip folder instead of the xml, thanks for the ds2 tip, i was running k-line or something, worked perfectly with ds2 protocol, thanks again!
I got everything working normally most of the time, romraider logger works beautiful, but in MegaLogViewer either I missed something or it's a problem I have specifically, but randomly some data is shown very weird: for example if I want to log RPM and Load, sometimes it shows up fine, other times RPM is all over the graph and not at all how it was logged. It seems to change based on which values you are logging in which order with the logger, but that makes no sense to me. :D Any clue?
@pazi88 Hello Sir ,Good Video Very Helpful I Know This Old Video But I'm Seeking Your help With my Problem I Have An E36 with Swapped Engine M52b20 Euro Spec , inpa Only scan body Module ( Abs , Auto Hvac , Ews ) elc. In order to scan DME & EGS wire Has been Cut on connector X20 Pin 16 ( While / Violet ) . Is There Away That I can reconnect That Wire And Scan DME & EGS & BODY MODULE ? I Used Your Way Wire OBDII Connector For Data Logging , But As I Told You inpa Only Communicate with Body Module . NOT DME OR EGS EVEN WITH WIRE IS CUT. I KNOW THIS SEEM Alot But I Have Faith that you can Help Me . Thank You in Advance
hey Pazi, can you explain in more detail how you did the OBD connector in the glovebox? Do you have pictures of when you were making that? Is it only two cables (K-Line plus; ground and 12V key-on)? My logs cut out after while like you said in the video if i use the engine bay connector...so i try to copy your idea =D i hope you dont mind ;)
Thank you for the clarification! =D ...i was wondering how this would work when we only use the TXD line and not the RXD. Is there not some kind of initialisation/handshake happening for the ECU to know to send data at x rate? Please correct if iam wrong. I thougt this Data link was like a serial connection. I will try to find out/search... edit: i was wrong it is not normal serial connection. it is "K-Line". Wikipedia has a article that explains more! best regards!
Hello pazi! First of all thank you very much for all good explanations! I also can not find the logger definitions for ms41.1 at the official romrider site. Could you help me, please?
Hi, thanks for yours videos! I have a problem. My ecu is an MS41.0 1429861 and I’m unable to connect to Romraider logger. I think that the problem is RR logger definition file. I used your file and the v323 from Romraider website without success. The Romraider Shows ID unknown. Do you have any idea how I can solve that? Should I change the file? I also tried with the Test0 (Download from video’s link) and this connected correctly in ms41.0 flash, but it didn’t connect with serial DS3. I also saw different names in the “jobs” list I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. My hardware is a vag com KKL, it works fine with inpa and MS41 Quickflash. Thanks
Ootko paljonki testannu etanoli vs bensa ennakkoja et on hyötyä noin isosta ennakkosta? liekkinopeus etanolilla reilusti nopeampi? mut mikä on todellinen vaikutus väännön ja tehon tuottoon. Liekki nopeuden mukaan matalampi ennakko parempi jotta palotapahtuma osuis paremmin 10-15 astetta ykk jälkeen. Esim tämmösiä lukuja on jossain muissa koneissa huomattu: "In my specific case, given an optimal gasoline advance of ~43 deg BTDC to an optimal E85 advance of ~37 deg BTDC"
Perse tuntumalta sanoisin että kun vaihtaa viinalle, niin bensan ennakoilla tippuu tehot ihan selvästi. Mutta kyllä sieltä enemmän vetoja löytyy kun nostaa vaan ennakkoa. Tämä toki ihan perse tuntumalta, mikä on aina vähän mitä on :D Mut tässä piakkoin ois tarkoitus käydä penkissä ja kattoo siellä ennakot paremmin kohdilleen. Nyt on lähinnä semmoset parhaat arvaukset. Ja mistä lie vanhasta työntötanko kasista nuo ulkomaan elävän ennakot, kun noin älyttömiä on :D
Hondan jostain K20 vai B18 koneesta... Toki voihan se olla et bemarin koneessa ennakot on vakiona liian pienet... pelkkää matematiikkaahan tuo optimi ennakon laittaminen on.. puhutaan tulpan ja männän välisestä etäisyydestä(liekin matka) ja rpm (liekin aika) ja siitä saadaan aikaseks koska liekki kohtaa männän sopivasti ykk jälkeen..
Joo palotilan geometriastahan se aika paljon riippuu. Noissa hondan koneissa näyttää olevan aika samanlainen palotila kuin näissä bemarinkin koneissa ja mitä löysin ennakkokarttoja, niin aika samanlaiset nekin on. Eli jotain 20-25 asteen välissä pyörii WOT ennakko.
Mut löysin tuon lähteen ja siinä puhuttiin cruising alueen ennakoista. Ne ei varmasti mulla ole vielä kohdillaan, koska tavaraa menee enemmän mitä pitäis. Tähän mennessä olen vasta keskittynyt WOT alueeseen. Pitänee sieltä alueelta koittaa puottaa ennakkoa ja katsoa miten vaikuttaa.
@@pazi88 well i tried to register 2 times and everything was fine in the registration but they are not sending me an activation email :(. if i message you on instagram or facebook can you send me the xml file please?
Nice video! I'm following your steps and after my first 64kb update, I'm also having trouble with logging. The cable stops working after seconds plugged and I'm unable to log. My car doesn't have a Obd2 port inside. Also, my lambda integrator bank 1 and 2,shows no information. It's blank. Can you help me with that?
Great video! When i connected testo i noticed masive difference in camshaft position log in idle. image.prntscr.com/image/0a534edf7adc4064a6d46c9fa2df9c23.png What could cause it?
Thanks but i already got a version. I just use the INPA so rarely that I haven't bothered changing that. NCS expert in English would be much more usable but I haven't found one. or at least version which would also have the coding parameters in English.
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Pasi, you are a Godsend! The BMW ECU tuning world is so messy and confusing, information is all over the place, and most of it is about US cars. Your 2 videos have cleared up a LOT!
I just wish I would have seen your videos about the cables earlier, before I ordered a $50 TinyADS cable and a $30 RS232 expressCard for my laptop, because everybody on the Internet was saying "USB adapters don't work", "ADS needs a true serial", "K-line this, L-line that"... would've been better spent on chipster, and an RR donation. Well, live and learn.
Thank you for this video! Please keep them coming! This is as good as it gets!
Thanks a lot!
what kind off work do you do for a living cause i studied car mechanic (highest level) and somethings i dont know even how you exceeded. like installing obd2. i learned things like can bus, can high, can low, lin bus flexray and more i forgot alot cause i been out off the cars by a year.. and btw how much hp has the bmw got and what mods. and further i saw that you have a bigger throttle body do you then to need to change maf settings cause its get more air at every throttle position? keep up the good work !!!
I work as software tester for wireless communication test equipment. So I haven't studied car stuff at all :D Its just been my hobby for long time.
I don't know how much it has but I'm guessing ~250hp. I'm going to dyno it in coming weeks after I get my tune finished. I have bigger throttle body, m50 intake manifold, s52 cams, and equal length headers. Plus I'm running e85 with bigger injectors.
In MAF based systems you don't have to tune the engine every time you make changes because the MAF measures how much air goes inside the engine. In for example MAP based or Alpha-N tuned engines you need to retune every time you make a smallest change. Because there is no MAF and the ECU doesn't know how much air goes in.
thanx for the reply. atleast you know you now your car stuff... pretty good..
nice line up off parts. i quess 250 wheel hp...
no but i mean a ecu looks at more then 1 parameter to know that everything is alright(sensors) so i mean for example gaspedal is 50% (...ohm) and throttle body is two 50% then the ecu know that there needs be 2.3v to heat up the coil in the maf.
but know you take a big bore throttle body so again 50% gaspedal 50% throttle body but cause there is a bigger throttle body there comes more air past the maf so it needs more volt to be the same temp. and the ecu says electric fault maf. cause there is a signaficant difference between the 3.
sorry for my poor english
Thank you very much for the video and the definition files!
I am looking forward to youtr next video =D
At the moment i am building a M52B20 that i have laying around since 2010 from my first car (that i crashed...). I have bought a M51D25 diesel crankshaft (needs stub modification, but cheap as f...) with 82,9 mm stroke for total displacement of 2,5L in the end. I will use 135 mm rods from m52b28/m54b30 for compression of ~11,1.
I am very thankfull that you share your knowledge! It will be a vital part to get my motor running =D
I would start from 84 bore engine like b25 or b28. The b20 head flows quite much less that b25 or b28 so even thought your engine will be 2,5 liters, it will be worse than stock b25.
thanks for the reply pazi.
iam aware of that negative point. but where i live it is very convenient that my blocknumber still says 2.0 ;)
its far from optimal and nobody should do it to expect lots of power. low rpm should be nice.
for me its a cheap option because i have all the stuff laying around. i bought crank and rods (200€) plus gaskets so its not bad... what else would you do with a b20 besides paperweight =D
greetings
ps: do you have more info on flowtesting of the heads?
i saw that the transitions from machined surface to cast runner were quite sharp. maybe with little port job theres some of the lost flow to get back....
Thanks so much! I knew something like mega log viewer had to be out there. I was dicking around in excel for so long...
Doing an M50 manifold swap on my M54 soon and had to figure out tuning first.
Also double thanks for taking the time to translate everything!!
Superb videos, should try tuning my m52b28 single vanos... Did m50b25 intake but no tune, because in Bulgaria many tuners are just enthusiasts... and not very professional... Your attitude and approach seams much more professional. Would rather learn to tune it myself, than giving 200-300euro for a generic map which may make the car worse to drive.
very cool videos thumbs up. i´m from germany and I look forward to the next video
Thanks!
Thanks for your detail - it is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for this bro 100% i got a question though if its cool. Im putting a turbo on my m52 so do you think it would be ok to use 1000cc injectors with the nissan 350z maf?
Hello, thank's a lot for your video!!
The obd connector in the car work to read and write the ecu?
I’m curious since this late model e36 had no obd2 port is it still OBDII CAN or does it still use the OBD1 CAN from previous models? I’m thinking of retrofitting an OBDII style connector in my 94 325i when I eventually get a standalone ecu
No CAN on e36 obd port. Only K-bus. The communication is still bmw specific "OBD I". But ms41.1/2 ECU's can also output standard OBD II -data.
@pazi88 thanks for the idea to put the obd2 connection in the glove box, I looked through the ETM for my 1994 318 (s52 obd2 swap) and got the K line from the body control module, I'm not getting any communication through the connector though. Any ideas?
You need to remove the cap for the diagnostic port in the engine compartment.
Hi from Russia). I use RR logger for e39 520 98 ms41. All fine but have one problem. I cannot see adaptations fuel and Knock. I see only info about no definition or no my id ecu. I use 0.43 def file. What I need add in xml def file for see this things?
Hello Pazi, thank you for your videos! Do you think that the readings will be trustable if i run catless headers with direct fit lambdas? Thankyou!!!
No problems there.
@@pazi88 You make me want to tune my car, i always wanted but never find the way to learn, thank you. I have a B28TU with long inox catless headers, custom CAI and soon i will buy the B30 intake and also Cams in the future, do you think i will be a able to gain a good amount of power? How hard do you think will be to me to tune it? Is it there a lot of maps that i will have to modify? Thank you so much for your time.
Hey im having some issues. First issue. I cannot get the knock adaptation tables to show up the "learning table values" in the logger.
Tho if i open the flasher then I can read the knock tables.
Second issue. I cannot get the MAF section of the logger to log the red dots.
What am I doing wrong
Hello! I really like the content. Could you tell me what voltages do you get from your lambda sensors(before cat). I have an e36 with m52b206s3 engine and I want to buy some sensors, but I don’t know if they are narrowband or wideband. From what I read I saw that they should be narrowband, but if I check voltages in inpa or any logger I find out that they are wideband and that the voltage is 4.83 before starting the engine. Could you help me? Also, I have changed my 1744897 ecu to a 1429861 one from an e39 with same engine. Could that interfere with anything. What universal sensor should I get, because with my 11781748762 part number from realoem from my o2 sensor I can’t seem to find any where I live.
M52 with ms41 uses narrowband lambda sensors. Unfortunately those are quite special titania type and there isn't universal replacement sensor for those. You need to get ones made for M52. I think NTK ones are OE and bit cheaper than sensors from BMW directly
Do you think maybe copper shielding tape would have worked on the cable or perhaps inside the plastic engine cover over the coils?
Great point... Or even some cheap HVAC metal tape. I have used that successfully in shielding a DSL modem from HF energy when I was into ham radio. Used to reset the modem when I would transmit!!! Tape fixed it.... Cheers. Excellent work!!
Hello!! I have one question about logging, i have take a log looking for knock degree values, it was a wot pull at 2-3 gears. Always reading 0 so no knock. But i looked for LTV values (F6 at romraider logger) and it is showing some knock retard at certain rpm and load ... What values i should care about?
Hello guys,. can you help me, i can't connect romraider logger because, error: java lang array out of bounds extencion. ? help please, what's the problem.
ok thank you pazi you and the king 😉
Thank you very much man...good job...
Great videos! Very Helpful! Any chance you could make a video on how to flash an MS41.1 to MS41.2?
Pazzi88. I can t open the lvt for my ms42 323i. I follow you on rr forum but.. when i click on lvt and click 'yes' see not the knock tables. Can you tell me why?
I don't remember anymore that were those even working at some point. And I don't currently have time to check that.
Hey Sipa! I've seen all your ms41 videos, and they helped me a lot so far. I am now trying to do some fine tuning but cant find a RR logger definition file for ds3 ms41.0.... please help!
Use the latest official logger definition.
What OBD2 cable do I need? I have one cheap ass BMW cable which worked with MS42, but it won't work with my MS41 now.
Check description. But if it works with ms42, it should work with ms41 too.
Hello, What is the pin in the EWS for the k-line? I want to do the same on my e36 with EWS 2, Thanks in advance
Don't remember but it is white/purple wire. You can check that from e36 ETM.
@@pazi88 Thanks, got it sorted out, pin 2 in ews pin 88 in ECU
Pazi E36 is life. Have you figured out some sort of two step launch control using romraider yet? It's been a while since I've looked into RR stuff for BMWs I've been using it for subarus for a while now though.
Two step requires software code changes to the ms41 unit itself. I think for ms43 there is already something like that. But for ms41 you can get regular launch control by upgrading to ms41.2. It has speed dependent rev limiter so if you put the rev limiter for example 2500 RPM below 3 mph, the rpm gets limited to that when the car is standing still. But after you get moving it uses the other set rev limiter.
I have euro 328i as well (ms41.0). Romraided forums says its possible to upgrade to ms41.2. What are the advantages and did u upgrade? If not, why not? And why are you using megasquirt in the turbo build instead of RR with ms41?
Thanks and greetings from Holland (keep up the good work bro!!!)
In ms41.2 upgrade you only get speed dependent rev limiter and VANOS map plus obd2 diagnostic support (you can use torque on android etc). Rev limiter can be used as launch control and speed dependent VANOS map is useful because the m52 vanos is really slow. For example at first gear the vanos hardly manages to turn fully so you lose power because of that. But you can make it turn earlier with ms41.2 map at slower speeds to compensate that. But drawback is that you need to get rid off all the OBD2 emission stuff and also need to to full retune. So I haven't upgraded mine. I have only made the upgrade for the cars that I need to start from scratch. And i use megasquirt in my m52 turbo because at the time I built that, I didn't know you could tune ms41 for turbo (or even tune it at all).
how to upgrade from ms41.0 to ms41.2?@@pazi88
Hey pazi. Please help me. I cannot make RomRaiderLogger work. I have installed everything like i should, but i will not connect to the car. INPA and ms41 quickflash works but not RomRaider Logger
Did you change the protocol to DS2
oh okay! that made it work.
Hey Pazzi I have a question.. When I try to connect to the romraider logger I get a message saying "Unable to send ecu init." I have the correct definition file, and I know the cable is good as I am able to read and flash tunes onto the ecu as well as use the regular romraider editor. Any advice on how to get the logger to connect to the ecu?
Did you change the protocol to DS2?
Thank You !
Hello Pazi :)
Which logger definitions using? I have from you link, but its Subaru. I have e39 523i m52b25 ms41 ecu. I want a look like your logger :)
The latest official RRlogger definition works. You need to change the connection protocol to ds2 to make it work.
Hi! I see you have the missing definitions error when you start RomRider logger but it still connects to the ECU and displays values. How come? I have the same error and then I try loading the latest definitions (326 - which says it has support for MS41 1432401 as well) but it still doesn't connect to the ECU.
It's only missing the cars defintion which is needed for the dyno function. Did you change the protocol to ds2. I forgot to mention in the video that you need to do that. It was so obvious for me that I did forgot it :D
Hi! Yes, DS2 did the trick :) It is now connecting to the ECU and I see live data. Still, I can't read the ATVs. It says: "ecu definition file not found or undefined. adaptaion table values cannot be properly retrieved until an ecu definition is defined in the Editor's Definition Manager." Any idea why... ?
I am using "logger_METRIC_EN_v326.xml". I see two places where I can load that in RRLogger: Settings\Logger Definition Location and File\Load Profile. Do I load the file in both places?
If I may ask for more help... I see different adaptaion values in INPA and RR. You already mentioned INPA values must be devided by 2, but the values still don't match:
RR:
Additive B1 -0.15ms
Additive B2 -0.12ms
Multiplicative B1 -4.09%
Multiplicative B2 -2.13%
INPA:
Additive B1 -38
Additive B2 -29
Multiplicative B1 -11
Multiplicative B2 -6
If I am to trust RR values it doesn't look that bad! (I was scared about the INPA values)
PS: lambda on bank2 is dead (flat line in RR and Inpa). I'll have to fix that.
Cosmin Rotaru Yeah the inpa shows about douple. Haven't checked accurate value :D But RR shows correctly. Yeah those are ok. Not perfect but no reason to swap maf to new one etc.
hi, have you got the xdf file for ms41.0?
Hi Pazi,
I made a log of a drive earlier today, my lambda sensors 1 and 2 are just 0 the whole time, but all the other logged items work like engine rpm and load, temperature etc. In inpa it just shows a static 4.83v and 4.88v which does not change. I actually unplugged both of the sensors to see if that would make a difference, inpa showed the same and so did romraider logger. Are my sensors dead? is there a connector i need to look for somewhere? When i ran the car with the sensors disconnected it did not even make an error code. car is a 1997 323i ms41.0 1429861
Nikki Carlson Those could be dead. Do you have fault codes active? Also old lambda sensors can need really long time to warm up to operating temp.
pazi88 thanks for the reply, okay I'll take it for a 15 minutes drive tomorrow and see if I can get a reading off them when I get home. No I didn't get any fault codes, I didn't even get fault codes when I unplugged them which I don't understand.
I did some more testing today, looks like the previous owner has installed zirconia type sensor, where i believe my car requires titania type (resistance) sensor, I had a look with the voltmeter, the sensor was putting out voltage (around half a volt), and the harness was putting out 5v for the resistive oxygen sensor. I also had another question for you I posted it here on romraider forums www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=11086&start=450, did you ever get access to the adaptations table through romraider logger on ecu 1429861, i can log values just fine but i cannot look at the adaptations and down the bottom left of romraider it says "CAL ID: Unknown", when i try it gives me error "ecu definition not found or undefined". I'm using the logger definitions v326 and the ms 41 ecu definitions v0.43, maybe you know how to modify the definitions file to allow me access to the adaptations table. Thanks for your help pazi, I appreciate it!
you made me want to buy e36 back :O
Why did you even sell it :D e36 is a great car.
It had loooots of rust, all bushings, steering column worn out... It would need atleast double the car worth of money to put in and I needed a reliable daily car. But I would like to buy another one as project car :)
Is MS41.0 1432401 supported by the latest logger def file v323? or is it still better to use the file you are sharing in this video?
uscp2 no it's not. You need to use the one I provided.
Ok, I am following the steps in your video, with the files u provided (ECU definitions for 1432401, same as mine ECU) set the protocol to DS2 K-line. I am able to flash, so I am connected. but i get the unable to send ecu Init. any idea's?
uscp2 do you see ecu id in the logger? If not, you have wrong com port selected.
got it, was a combination of the cable driver, DS2 protocol and indeed, choosing the right com port.thanks again!
I cant make connect with romraider logger, I use Inpa cable have the deffinition files for ms41 (I think) everything is 0 can you help me
im having the same issue, did you ever figure it out? Thanks in advance!
hello pazi do you have a diagram to connect odb2 to ews what to use?
///M328 turbo Not now. But video coming about that soon.
If it's ews ii unit i found pazi's thread on romraider, pin 2 from ews is k line, pin 5 and 7 are ground and 12v, red and brown, i just did it 5 minutes ago, works a treat, you just need to take off the cap on the diagnostic plug. and to connect some wires in the plug to allow programming voltage. I want to do this but i cannot sign up for romraider to get the definitions, when i try it gives me an error.
Do you know how to create A2L or Damos files?
I have MS41.0 M52B25 with M50 Intake
Is it possible to read the adapdations as a Map in the Flash and calculate it with the Base Fuel Map to get the perfect fuel Map?
Is it Possible to tune WOT Fuel without a Wideband?
No I don't know how to create those and don't need because of RomRaider. The RR logger reads the adaptations from the ECU ram. Those are not stored in flash. You can calculate the base fuel map in Excel if you in example change injectors. And then you can fine tune it by checking the multicaptive adaptations. If it shows for example 4% enrichment you need to multiply your fuel maps by 1.04. (only the ones that are in ms). And then you can log the intergrators through the load range. Those should stay around 0% and if it goes up or down in specific load, you have to adjust the ms values in base fuel map for that load up or down. And after that there is no need for wideband in WOT tuning. The base map is 14.7:1 AFR map and the WOT map is % of enrichment to that. 15% enrichment means 12.5 AFR, 10% enrichment means about 13.5 AFR and so on. You will get best power with 13.5 AFR but you may need to richer to fight against knock.
hmm,....
i had read in the romrider forum that you should reset the adaptions with inpa/romrider logger so the adapton must be stored everywhere
but with your description it should work.....
do you change the wot detection for Fuel Base Tuning? (otherwise you can't tune the base Fuel at high Load?)
Clearing adaptations just clears the ram. Yes if you change all values to 120% in WOT detection map, it disables it and the engine is at closed loop whole time.
Hello, I can not get the rom raider logger to connect to my ecu, ms42 m52tub28... rom raider works, i have already read partial map and managed to write one too, but i just cant get logger to work... is there any special definition file for logger for ms42? i found something on romraider forum, but i cant get registered to download the files... could you please help? thanks.
The official logger file works. Just remember to change to ds2 protocol.
@@pazi88 thank you allot, it worked. Also thank you for your time and effort, i have learned a lot through your videos. I will look to donate to you some amount i can afford atm... Thank you a ton!
@@pazi88 do you have maybe a working ms43 definition file? the one i downloaded from ms43 wiki can not open my friends e46 330ci file, it sais definition file not found?
@@TomoReso Only one ms43 version is supported in ms43. Few more in tunerpro. But still there are many versions that are not supported.
How much power your're making with E85 fuel and remapped ecu ?
Don't know yet. I will dyno it soon after I finish the e85 tuning. So hopefully within a month you will see video about how much it makes. Guessing for ~250 hp from crank.
pazi88 Just m50 intake manifold mod? What injectors and fuel pump you use for e85?
Rainer Rand I also have bbtb, s52 cams and equal length exhaust manifold.
And I have walbro 255lph fuel pump.
pazi88 And injectors how big? I think with that setup it will definitely make 250 hp from crank.
so ive been using testo to log my turbo e46, how would i interpret the knock values testo gives out? for example if it reads 0.5 on a knock sensor, would that mean its retarding by .5 degrees at that load/rpm? or that it is reading .5 volts of feedback?
Yes it's reading 0.5volts from knock sensor. But there is not much you can do with that info because the logging speed is too slow to really show when engine is knocking. But in case of ms43/ms42 you can read the knock tables with RR logger same way as I showed here for ms41.
dang that was quick, thank you. Ive tried to log with RR and would prefer that method so i can log my AEM UEGO inline with the engine, but i cant seem to connect it to my car. ive tried several logging definitions, and also made sure it was on the correct COM port. However it always says unable to connect to ecu. Ill keep reading the RR forum i think im overlooking somthing
If you see the ecu id in the bottom, it's definiton problem. If you don't see it, it's wrong com port or some other setting error. Like not using DS2 protocol. And you need to close all other programs that could use the com port.
okay thank you, im about to go on a morning. ill check for the ecu id, also i just download the most revised logger definition for ms42, thanks again!
dont laugh lol, i was trying to log with an unpacked zip folder instead of the xml, thanks for the ds2 tip, i was running k-line or something, worked perfectly with ds2 protocol, thanks again!
I got everything working normally most of the time, romraider logger works beautiful, but in MegaLogViewer either I missed something or it's a problem I have specifically, but randomly some data is shown very weird: for example if I want to log RPM and Load, sometimes it shows up fine, other times RPM is all over the graph and not at all how it was logged. It seems to change based on which values you are logging in which order with the logger, but that makes no sense to me. :D Any clue?
Change the RR logger to use US formatting.
@@pazi88 Thanks for the quick reply! Changed the setting and will try logging again tomorrow.
@@pazi88 Tried today, worked perfectly. Thanks a lot!
Можно видио как установить логи на мс41
@pazi88
Hello Sir ,Good Video Very Helpful
I Know This Old Video But I'm Seeking Your help With my Problem
I Have An E36 with Swapped Engine M52b20 Euro Spec , inpa Only scan body Module ( Abs , Auto Hvac , Ews ) elc.
In order to scan DME & EGS wire Has been Cut on connector X20 Pin 16 ( While / Violet ) . Is There Away That I can reconnect That Wire And Scan DME & EGS & BODY MODULE ?
I Used Your Way Wire OBDII Connector For Data Logging , But As I Told You inpa Only Communicate with Body Module . NOT DME OR EGS EVEN WITH WIRE IS CUT.
I KNOW THIS SEEM Alot But I Have Faith that you can Help Me .
Thank You in Advance
Why don't you just reconnect that wire?
@@pazi88
Reconnected ( Inpa or Any Scan Tool tool won't Read DME & Transmission Only Read Body Module .
Disconnected ( Inpa or Any Scan Tool Read DME & Transmission . Won't Read Body Module .
hey Pazi, can you explain in more detail how you did the OBD connector in the glovebox? Do you have pictures of when you were making that?
Is it only two cables (K-Line plus; ground and 12V key-on)?
My logs cut out after while like you said in the video if i use the engine bay connector...so i try to copy your idea =D i hope you dont mind ;)
Connector of EWS2 module X1659:
Pin 2 Diagnostic connection
Pin 5 +12V (switched)
Pin 7 GND
Connector of EWS2 module X1659:
Pin 2 Diagnostic connection -> pin 7 on OBD2 connector
Pin 5 +12V (switched) -> pin 16 on OBD2 connector
Pin 7 GND -> pin 4 and 5 on OBD2 connector
Thank you for the clarification! =D
...i was wondering how this would work when we only use the TXD line and not the RXD. Is there not some kind of initialisation/handshake happening for the ECU to know to send data at x rate? Please correct if iam wrong. I thougt this Data link was like a serial connection.
I will try to find out/search...
edit: i was wrong it is not normal serial connection. it is "K-Line". Wikipedia has a article that explains more!
best regards!
great success! logging is stable =D Thanks again pazi!
hi, where can I find logger definitions to rom raider? :( on website are only to subaru, I can't find to bmw
mateusz19897 Latest official logger definitios now support ms41.0 also. Just remember to use ds2 protocol.
Hello pazi! First of all thank you very much for all good explanations! I also can not find the logger definitions for ms41.1 at the official romrider site. Could you help me, please?
I can't believe I've been using RRlogger for a year now and didn't know it could display data as a graph as it logs. Haha
Those graphs are much more informative when driving than the plain numbers :D
pazi88 I usually just peek down to see what the max/min lambda integrator and knock are. Maybe this will be more helpful.
pazi88 especially if if graphs external sensors, then I can see what my Lc1 saw for the whole pull before pulling the log.
Yeah it's quite much faster to see the curves in the logger itself.
Hi, thanks for yours videos!
I have a problem. My ecu is an MS41.0 1429861 and I’m unable to connect to Romraider logger. I think that the problem is RR logger definition file. I used your file and the v323 from Romraider website without success. The Romraider Shows ID unknown.
Do you have any idea how I can solve that? Should I change the file?
I also tried with the Test0 (Download from video’s link) and this connected correctly in ms41.0 flash, but it didn’t connect with serial DS3. I also saw different names in the “jobs” list
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. My hardware is a vag com KKL, it works fine with inpa and MS41 Quickflash.
Thanks
Patricio Lopez Bularte Did you change the protocol to ds2 in rr logger?
No, i Didn't. Now i do and it works fine. Thanks a lot
with oem ems everything is ok.
Ootko paljonki testannu etanoli vs bensa ennakkoja et on hyötyä noin isosta ennakkosta? liekkinopeus etanolilla reilusti nopeampi? mut mikä on todellinen vaikutus väännön ja tehon tuottoon. Liekki nopeuden mukaan matalampi ennakko parempi jotta palotapahtuma osuis paremmin 10-15 astetta ykk jälkeen.
Esim tämmösiä lukuja on jossain muissa koneissa huomattu:
"In my specific case, given an optimal gasoline advance of ~43 deg BTDC to an optimal E85 advance of ~37 deg BTDC"
Perse tuntumalta sanoisin että kun vaihtaa viinalle, niin bensan ennakoilla tippuu tehot ihan selvästi. Mutta kyllä sieltä enemmän vetoja löytyy kun nostaa vaan ennakkoa. Tämä toki ihan perse tuntumalta, mikä on aina vähän mitä on :D Mut tässä piakkoin ois tarkoitus käydä penkissä ja kattoo siellä ennakot paremmin kohdilleen. Nyt on lähinnä semmoset parhaat arvaukset.
Ja mistä lie vanhasta työntötanko kasista nuo ulkomaan elävän ennakot, kun noin älyttömiä on :D
Hondan jostain K20 vai B18 koneesta... Toki voihan se olla et bemarin koneessa ennakot on vakiona liian pienet... pelkkää matematiikkaahan tuo optimi ennakon laittaminen on.. puhutaan tulpan ja männän välisestä etäisyydestä(liekin matka) ja rpm (liekin aika) ja siitä saadaan aikaseks koska liekki kohtaa männän sopivasti ykk jälkeen..
Joo palotilan geometriastahan se aika paljon riippuu. Noissa hondan koneissa näyttää olevan aika samanlainen palotila kuin näissä bemarinkin koneissa ja mitä löysin ennakkokarttoja, niin aika samanlaiset nekin on. Eli jotain 20-25 asteen välissä pyörii WOT ennakko.
Mut löysin tuon lähteen ja siinä puhuttiin cruising alueen ennakoista. Ne ei varmasti mulla ole vielä kohdillaan, koska tavaraa menee enemmän mitä pitäis. Tähän mennessä olen vasta keskittynyt WOT alueeseen. Pitänee sieltä alueelta koittaa puottaa ennakkoa ja katsoa miten vaikuttaa.
did you use romrider on windows 11 ?
Yeah. I have win11 on my new laptop and it works fine.
@@pazi88 perfect thanks you , do you have ani issus ? some special app to use it ? i heard that it didn’t work on windows 11 64bit
can you please provide me a link for ms41xml file? the ones on romraider sites says that i dont have a permission to access :(
You need to register to the romraider forum.
@@pazi88 well i tried to register 2 times and everything was fine in the registration but they are not sending me an activation email :(. if i message you on instagram or facebook can you send me the xml file please?
IAT 25 degrees ? Probably outside it's -20 ? :)
Mihai When the car is not moving, the intake temps get quite high because of the engine heat. The IAT temps start to drop when car moves.
Very good video! when the same for MSS50? ;-)
Sorry I don't own m3 so I can't do videos about those.
Nice video! I'm following your steps and after my first 64kb update, I'm also having trouble with logging. The cable stops working after seconds plugged and I'm unable to log. My car doesn't have a Obd2 port inside.
Also, my lambda integrator bank 1 and 2,shows no information. It's blank. Can you help me with that?
ECU 861 MS410DS3
Rahamiehet ei logeja nauhota :D
Piru siistin näköinen 36 sulla,oot vissiin hyvin huolta pitäny:D
Kiitoksia. Onhan tuo ollu mulla jo yli 10 vuotta :D
+pazi88 ai saakeli sehän on sydämestä ottanu paikan:D itselläni oli joskus saman värinen sedan 36,tulee nuoruus mieleen sinun autosta:D
Joo eihän tuota kehtaa myydä pois, kun olen omistanut tuon siitä asti kun sain kortin. Kaikki rymyreissut on kuljettu tuolla, niin muistoja riittää :D
+pazi88 Haha juu ei todellakaan kannata myydä:D
Great video!
When i connected testo i noticed masive difference in camshaft position log in idle. image.prntscr.com/image/0a534edf7adc4064a6d46c9fa2df9c23.png What could cause it?
Are you sure you are using correct connection? DS0, 1,2,3 etc. If so it looks like your camshaft position sensor is busted.
teeppäs huviksesi video tosta obd pistokkeen tekemisestä tohon taskulampun pistokkeen paikalle. olis varmasti monelle hyötyä..
are you fluent in German? I'd hazard a guess you're better at English, if you want I can hook you up with INPA etc in English.
Thanks but i already got a version. I just use the INPA so rarely that I haven't bothered changing that. NCS expert in English would be much more usable but I haven't found one. or at least version which would also have the coding parameters in English.
I'll take a look in me ol' treasure bag.
pazi88 I don't think NCSexpert comes in anything other than German, but I think NCSdummy translates and just generally makes it a lot easier.