Not sure how I’ve not seen this excellent video before. Puck screen - dead right, little effect on taste but helps with keeping the shower screen clean. Bottom paper filter - WOW! What a difference - several seconds shorter on a 9bar shot with more clarity & lightness -gonna use this regularly from now on - thanks for the heads up 👍
Been using paper filters with a 58mm hole punch for about six months now. I've found they stay in place nicely without needing to pre-wet. Plus, instead of using a shower screen that you have to rinse out and make sure it gets dry, I just plop another paper filter on top of the puck and it serves as a shower screen and knocks out in the bin. No cleaning necessary.
@@MIKEYSREVIEWS I just buy standard size 4 paper filters from my local grocery store. Don't buy the organic brown ones though, they don't punch, just tear.
I have the same experience as Joseph, but I only use filter paper on top. I see some risk with the metal screens. They seem to rub against the shower head. They are abrasive and I think extensive use may cause scratch the shower head stainless coating. I use Breville Barista Express.
This is probably the best, and definitely one of the best, channels for espresso making. Especially for a noob, such as myself. It has directly influenced my setup, purchase, and process decisions. Keep up the great content 👍🏻
Thank you for sharing the use of filter paper placed at the bottom of the puck. I am a amateur using Delionghi EC685 coffee machine. Whenever I used a sightly finer grounded coffee power, extracted coffee was unable to flow smoothly through the 2-cup filter (that come with the machine). In order to find out whether this problem will be resolved, I cut out and used 2 pieces of non-woven tea bag filter (which can be reusable) in place of the paper filter that you mentioned. What surprised me was that the extracted coffee was able to flow out smoothly. The reason could be that paper filter 'creates a layer of low resistance at the bottom of the puck' as you mentioned, or possibly it 'blocks' those finest coffee powders that choke the holes of the puck. Therefore, the flow rate of water/espresso is higher.
If you use a filter paper, like you said it reduces the oil intake, but also it reduces cafestol ( a pretty potent cholesterol-elevating compound). So for people who need to pay attention to their cholestrol, this can help to still enjoy an espresso :) .
One detail on filter paper My speculative opinion is that most espresso grinds include some dust sized particles And that these particles can embed in the porta filter basket holes Resulting in reduced flow, or even clogging And that the paper filter stops this problem Which results in better flow and reduced clogging Also, I think the paper reinforces the physical integrity of the puck and therefore reduces channeling Btw, like you said, puck screens are great to keep the machine cleaner As with making pour over coffee… there is a coffee foam on top…. And when the three way valve releases pressure, this is sucked back into the machine The puck screen acts as a barrier to this effect😊
so heres my story about how a puck screen saved my extractions my machine had quite a few channeling isseus (even though i had done wdt and was using ims shower screen/basket) so i put a puck screen in and bam no more channeling (water flowed a bit harder in some erias compared to others) completly fixed my espresso
I have a Gaggia Classic Pro that I have modded with a PID and a 6.5 barr spring. The grinder I use is a mk4 c40 and the shots were good. A simple change ,like adding paper filters to my pullman basket, made my budget setup go much further. I agree and highly recommend paper filters!
I'm a long time coffee fan, I have an expensive machine and I learned to repair it myself if needed... I'm sceptical about those paper filters cause I do love every note in my coffee, the bitter, the sour, but I certainly love the oils, the texture and the body... and also, those filters are not very ecofriendly anyway... When I think of all the fabrication process, the transportation, trees being cut... so I really see no advantage to do that. All the youtubers that tested it live on their channel... seem to just say that it has a little less bitterness and sourness... and definitely less body... and I do think the same ... Like they said, it just makes it more accessible for the mainstream, cause it's a little sweeter... Anyways... Thanks again !! xx
When I was diagnosed with Type 2 in May this year my Hb1AC was 16.4% or 35.4mmol, it’s now Oct. and my Hb1AC is 6.2%. I’ve been prescribed daily insulin injections, 2gr of metformin, jardiance and trajenta daily, I’m hoping that at my next specialist appointment in Nov. that he’ll take me off insulin. The most significant way I think I’ve achieved this(my doctor and diabetes nurse actually hugged me) has been through diet with the aid of medication. I’ve been careful with my carb intake, increased pure water, a diabetes specific supplement powder that you add to water but I haven’t denied myself a croissant or doughnut( once a week cheat day) also lots of protein and cruciferous vegetables.
I was on the fence about trying a puck screen but honestly just for the cleanliness aspect I might grab one. And paper filters sound like just what I need to clean up the espresso from the Barista Express just a little bit. Thanks for the video!
Good video. When I rinse my paper filter in the flush on the Decent I put the puck screen on top. Benefits: i keep it in place when drying the basket sides - occasionally before I have dislodged the paper filter when doing that - not great. Also, warms up the puck screen - helps with thermal control - not an issue on the Decent with its real time temp measurement at group head but could be more helpful on other machines.
You have to use a puck screen if you make espresso in my opinion. Simply for the cleaning purposes of the grouphead and shower screen. In my experience it keeps literally every bit of coffee off of the gasket and screen. Especially when after I put the puck screen in my basket I give it a bit of a light blow to remove any coffee dust that's around and or on top of the screen.
Great post. Corollary for filter papers: hand grinding gets even slower/more laborious. I love my 1Zpresso J-Max, but I'm now saving up for a good automatic so I can save my arms, and serve more guests, with my Flair 58 setup.
Hi, great material! What do you think is better, using paper filter and get for example 18s extraction or not using it and get around 25s holy grail extraction? I am wondering because when i switch to the one step finer grinding i have 48s with the filter and coffee seems to be overextracted, so currently i use filters as a helper to achieve proper extraction time, so for example if i have around 30 seconds i put a paper to achieve 25s, if i have around 25s without a filter i'll leave it since next grinder step would be too fine for 25s with the filter. Just wondering if that have sense, or there are more reasons to use paper filters than increase water flow rate and potential health benefits? maybe the main reason is consistency as you mentioned? I use commandante grinder and it is not so super easy to dial the setting to achieve perfect flow rate. Depends on coffe and other factors ofc. Just wondering what are your thoughts about that.
What a great result within espresso, with the paper filter below the puck! (And the puck screen also, which is already a must for my shower's sake) Thank you! Slightly - barely noticeable - more clarity and quite a lot more extraction! Both these improvements at once, with a classical conical burr grinder (Niche) is quite an unexpected experience... I was already using (and recycling a few times) a double paper filters within the moka pot, above and below the puck, for different purposes (avoiding wild flow and filtering fines out). Now finding out that the filters are useful also for espresso makes me happy (even if they suit a zen-mode-espresso-workflow...). I wonder if the paper filter below the espresso puck could be reused more than one time without sacrifiyng much the taste... Edit: great success also with a mini paper filter at the bottom of the funnel-shaped single-dose basket (I've already been regularly using with pleasure the meticulous-prep-needing conical single dose basket)
Great breakdown! I have that hole punch, and it's alright but some of the edges can end up a bit ragged. It's no problem and won't affect the cup, but def not as nice as the Portapapers. I only use the filter papers when I need them, as you had mentioned fast flowing shots like a Rao Allonge that would otherwise blow out and benefit from the slightly finer grind. But I'll sacrifice some extraction for more normal shots, if only for the simplicity! On the puck screen, were you noticing much coffee making it up the group head? I've been breaking down the group of the DE1 monthly to clean the brass parts (easy btw with 4 screws), and it's been really clean without a puck screen. Might be the difference between a fwd and backflush, and with weekly fwd flushes to clean the exit path anyways. For me, it's preferable to clean the group monthly rather than weekly maintenance of a puck screen. Up to user preference! And I'm right behind you on whether a puck screen affects extractions significantly. My take is that if you can blow out a candle from behind a puck screen (which you can), it won't deflect water much to redistribute water. There's an argument about reducing headspace, but I'd rather use a properly sized basket and fill that space with coffee than a screen.
Thanks. Detail explanation and unbias as usual. However, as you've kept emphasizing it is for those of us who's aren't afraid of adding extra steps in our workflow... It's not for me. Though i'm mostly making coffee for myself, but it's always in rush in the morningm Gosh, the Malaysian KL traffic. Yeah, I am looking into cutting down steps in my workflow. So an extra step will bother me. Thanks for sharing. BTW, have u encounter grind setting drift on your niche? Mine started drifting to coarser setting every grind. I realize it when i dial in my shot and the next day shot was significantly faster. Then I recheck my setting and found that the funnel/setting collar drifted. I did a quick fix and I am still testing it. Have a nice day.
I have the Breville bambino.. (54mm) I want to use a filter in the basket bottom .. I think that a hole punch is the way to go .. but, can you recommend a size (hole punch)
Puck screen helps with water distribution on machines like Barista Express which in turn improves coffee extraction and reduces channeling. Also, aeropress filters work like a charm in Flair’s low flow basket. However, What I found is that filter makes more mess with dark roast, shot tastes too bitter even after dialling in grind size.
Better distribution makes intuitive sense to me, but in practice I just didn’t notice a major difference even on the 54mm Brevilles. But if you’re noticing better results, who’s to say you’re wrong!? Thanks for sharing :)
On my old machine, it did NOT have a single dose basket. So I had to use my double dose basket for a single dose. That resulted in a lot more space between the shower screen and the top of the coffee. Well, because of that extra sapce above the coffee . . . after pulling a shot, the puck was wet and soupy. I put a puck screen on top of the coffee, and it stopped the wet soupy puck. In fact the puck was almost dry. So less coffee was getting into the shower screen and group head. Definitely a WIN. But . . . there is no free lunch. It took me three tries to find a screen that fit properly. - Measuring the basket then ordering 0.5mm smaller did not work. That first screen did not even go in. Either my caliper was off, or the screen was bigger than advertized. - Tried again, slightly smaller, that did not work. The screen went in, but when used, it got stuck and had to be KNOCKED out. The metal screen expanded when heated with the hot water. So a perfect fit when cold was too big when hot and expanded. - The third time was the charm. Screen drops in, and comes out. I had to use a plastic spoon to get the puck screen out, before removing the coffee grounds. Cuz I did not want to drop the puck screen into the coffee waste. A bit of a hassle. But it worked, and worked well, to keep the shower screen cleaner.
I rarely write comments but wanted to thank you for amazingly helpful and clear videos. They help me make decisions very easily and with confidence. I have just one improvement suggestion: Can you try to break the mechanical tone of voice?
@Lifestyle Lab. For 51mm Delonghi la specialista maestro espresso machine which pick screen you recommend. Also, 100u is better or 150u ? Please recommend.
Thanks for the video I am watching this video since my doctor warned me about the high ldl from the recent physical exam I’ve got. It almost convinced me to go back to drinking v60, but maybe I should try this before I give up drinking espresso. What’s your thoughts on this? Think using this paper-filter will help with reducing a significant amount of oil?
I don’t think the oil reduction is significant enough if you’re genuinely trying to reduce your intake for doctor recommended health reasons. I’d still suggest switching to a full paper filter method, and then maybe mixing this in on occasion :)
puck screens dramatically improve shot to shot extraction time consistency and since using screens i no longer have to flush the group head clean. huge net benefit imho.
I've been using unbranded puck screen recently on my cheap machine and it helps with water distribution a lot, but the problem now is the puck screen is a little bit bent. I wonder if anyone's experiencing the same problem?
Paper filter in espresso will barely affect the amount of oil in the cup. Oil is absorbed by the paper, and once the paper is “full” of oil- it won’t absorb any more. Since you have so much coffee in comparison to the small filter, very little will actually get filtered out.
Thanks for the great video. I use a filter paper on top and bottom of my puck. Also keeps that screen very clean between flushes. I was concerned the puck screen increases the time and wondered if that put more pressure on the rotary pump? And I used the Brother's filter paper - I have used Chemex paper and the punch and after a couple months that punch is dull dull dull. didn't punch out paper even when I used a single layer of paper. MHO 🙂
This is the second time I’ve watched this excellent video, but now I have a question: Most of the photos of this process show the paper filter sitting on TOP of the tamped portafilter grounds, but you’re saying to place it on the bottom? Do I place one on the bottom to improve extraction and one at the top to help keep the machine clean? Or is that the puck’s job? Thanks in advance for the clarity.
Interesting. If I look at the video correctly, you put the paper filter at the bottom of the porta filter. I put it on the top of the puck, just like a any metal screen. Which way should it be?
Depends on your intended purpose Flow will only be impacted if it’s on the bottom. If on top, it’s just acting as a puck screen to keep your group head clean
Does papper filter on top works just the same as metalic puck screen? When I pull multiple shots it’s just frustrating to rinse the screen all the time. I’ll rather use papper filter on top instead.
Give it a try! It won’t reduce the headspace as much, so you may need to adjust your dose, but yes a paper filter would serve the same purpose of keeping the group head clean
So I have a 54mm portafilter and found a 2” hole punch which I am thinking will work for my Barista Express. I already use a puck screen. Only thing is I’m not sure where to get the filter papers. Any suggestions?
I don't have 150-micron puck screens but I have both 100-micron and 50-micron and my test results are a bit different. Same coffee and grind, 16g-in-36g-out (or rather 15.9g-16.2g in, 35g-37g out). 8 shots without puck screen 26-27s (2 outliers excluded, a >30s and a
I haven't noticed any difference in the cup with the puck screen, I just use it for workflow. And I don't find it necessary to put a filter paper at the bottom because my pucks generally come out in one piece and the portafilter is quite clean, comparatively
100% agree on the puck screens, however as shown filter papers have more benefits than just a clean portafilter. The benefits to extraction are quite well defined
is the whole puncher you linked work well for decent portafilter ? The goodbrother link says decent portafilter should use papers sized 55 mm but the puncher you linked is 2.25 inch (27.15 mm). thanks.
Hello, thanks for your video. Is it possible to use the metal puck screen filter in place of the paper filter at the bottom? I don't like the fact that i have to discard a paper filter for every coffee so i was wondering if a metal filter will do.
Cant make my puck screen not to attach to the puck, and it is so hard to dettach it. Its literally a mess to take the puck off the portafilter. Any reccomendations there?
While I'm not convinced this will be worth the effort, I love coffee and new projects enough to experiment with this idea. I'm curious to see how this affects shots on my ancient Gaggia Classic that has a tendency to give me muddy pucks after a shot.
I love using the puck screen with my La Pavoni, as it keeps the group really clean. On the E-61 I actually prefer not to use the puck screen. While it keeps the group head clean, it is too clean. The group needs oil from the coffee to lubricate and puck elementals the oils and makes the lever harder to use and require lubrication more often. Personally, I prefer to drop the puck screen and back flush than to take apart and lubricate the lever on E-61. :)
I use the screen to keep the group head clean, but I still need to flush it anyway, and then I have to worry about getting the screan clean every time? Seems like adding a step for no reason.
My experience using paper filter is the shot going much faster if using paper filter. Should i grind finer to targetting same brewtime? I thought there was channeling…
Always be dialing in to taste! But yes generally you’ll have to (are able to) grind finer when using a filter paper because of the faster flow. This doesn’t necessarily indicate channeling :) it’s just a byproduct of using a filter
I think the same as described in this video also applies to a commercial setting. It isn’t ever “necessary”, I saw little if not no improvement to shot quality, but cleanliness is a big consideration. In a cafe, the impact on cycle time might make this trade off not worth the effort due to regular cleaning and maintenance schedules
I have an Oracle Touch and did not care for the screen. It had a chemical smell to it and even after washing it several times, I felt it made the shot smell bad
The link provided for the "Filter paper hole punch" is for the EK Success (sometimes shown as EK Tools) 2.25 inch punch. This tool cuts a perfect size circle for a standard 58mm portafilter basket. Unfortunately the product does not last. I ordered one from Amazon and it wouldn't work out of the box. Amazon sent a replacement that worked okay for a few hundred filters then rapidly stopped cutting a complete circle. I tried all the sharpening tricks including taking it to a knife sharpening professional with no improvement. I ended up contacting the manufacturer who provided me with a full refund. They claim it is not compatible for cutting filter paper.
I have a crap machine that only goes to maybe 5 or 7 bars of pressure, plus the grounds i bought are not very fine because it was ground with an industrial grinder, would a Puck filter help extract my coffee better given these crap factors? 😂
Lower pressure isn’t necessarily a bad thing! I’d choose lower pressure over high pressure any day! However, no, a puck screen will not help. What you need is a pressured filter basket if using pre-ground coffee
When you put a filter under the puck, the flow is a lot faster. Do you grind finer, to compensate (add time to it) to the overall extraction? Or you'd just drink it as it is, faster extraction?
puck screens really require regular ultrasonic baths to not give a negative effect. Personally, I can recommend using an Aeropress paper on top of my puck instead. A 58.0mm tamper is good at pushing them into the basket after you've done the tamping.
@@jamel4552 I'm not speaking for myself, I'm speaking about the fact that you leave coffee solids and oils inside the mesh unless you do a real deep cleaning. That's undisputable.
@@tommihommi1 this was something I was wondering about as a long time puck screen user! It seems to be giving me more spurty / channely results of late so I immediately thought of screen clogging. Most folks mentioned using a steam wand to purge them but I don’t have one. I picked up some cafiza but you reckon you need to go further?
Not sure how I’ve not seen this excellent video before.
Puck screen - dead right, little effect on taste but helps with keeping the shower screen clean.
Bottom paper filter - WOW! What a difference - several seconds shorter on a 9bar shot with more clarity & lightness -gonna use this regularly from now on - thanks for the heads up 👍
Been using paper filters with a 58mm hole punch for about six months now. I've found they stay in place nicely without needing to pre-wet. Plus, instead of using a shower screen that you have to rinse out and make sure it gets dry, I just plop another paper filter on top of the puck and it serves as a shower screen and knocks out in the bin. No cleaning necessary.
@jake Greenb None that I’ve noticed
Where can you purchase paper sheets which I will be able to use my hole punch?😊
@@MIKEYSREVIEWS I just buy standard size 4 paper filters from my local grocery store. Don't buy the organic brown ones though, they don't punch, just tear.
I have the same experience as Joseph, but I only use filter paper on top. I see some risk with the metal screens. They seem to rub against the shower head. They are abrasive and I think extensive use may cause scratch the shower head stainless coating. I use Breville Barista Express.
That's a brilliant idea! The entire puck is disposable that way
This is probably the best, and definitely one of the best, channels for espresso making. Especially for a noob, such as myself. It has directly influenced my setup, purchase, and process decisions. Keep up the great content 👍🏻
I got a $7 puck screen on Amazon and went from soggy channeled pucks to perfect pucks and excellent tasting shots.
Thank you for sharing the use of filter paper placed at the bottom of the puck. I am a amateur using Delionghi EC685 coffee machine. Whenever I used a sightly finer grounded coffee power, extracted coffee was unable to flow smoothly through the 2-cup filter (that come with the machine). In order to find out whether this problem will be resolved, I cut out and used 2 pieces of non-woven tea bag filter (which can be reusable) in place of the paper filter that you mentioned. What surprised me was that the extracted coffee was able to flow out smoothly. The reason could be that paper filter 'creates a layer of low resistance at the bottom of the puck' as you mentioned, or possibly it 'blocks' those finest coffee powders that choke the holes of the puck. Therefore, the flow rate of water/espresso is higher.
If you use a filter paper, like you said it reduces the oil intake, but also it reduces cafestol ( a pretty potent cholesterol-elevating compound). So for people who need to pay attention to their cholestrol, this can help to still enjoy an espresso :) .
One detail on filter paper
My speculative opinion is that most espresso grinds include some dust sized particles
And that these particles can embed in the porta filter basket holes
Resulting in reduced flow, or even clogging
And that the paper filter stops this problem
Which results in better flow and reduced clogging
Also, I think the paper reinforces the physical integrity of the puck
and therefore reduces channeling
Btw, like you said, puck screens are great to keep the machine cleaner
As with making pour over coffee… there is a coffee foam on top….
And when the three way valve releases pressure, this is sucked back into the machine
The puck screen acts as a barrier to this effect😊
so heres my story about how a puck screen saved my extractions my machine had quite a few channeling isseus (even though i had done wdt and was using ims shower screen/basket) so i put a puck screen in and bam no more channeling (water flowed a bit harder in some erias compared to others) completly fixed my espresso
I have a Gaggia Classic Pro that I have modded with a PID and a 6.5 barr spring. The grinder I use is a mk4 c40 and the shots were good. A simple change ,like adding paper filters to my pullman basket, made my budget setup go much further. I agree and highly recommend paper filters!
Thanks for sharing Devon! Nice setup
very short and straight to the point. thank you
I'm a long time coffee fan, I have an expensive machine and I learned to repair it myself if needed... I'm sceptical about those paper filters cause I do love every note in my coffee, the bitter, the sour, but I certainly love the oils, the texture and the body... and also, those filters are not very ecofriendly anyway... When I think of all the fabrication process, the transportation, trees being cut... so I really see no advantage to do that. All the youtubers that tested it live on their channel... seem to just say that it has a little less bitterness and sourness... and definitely less body... and I do think the same ... Like they said, it just makes it more accessible for the mainstream, cause it's a little sweeter... Anyways... Thanks again !! xx
When I was diagnosed with Type 2 in May this year my Hb1AC was 16.4% or 35.4mmol, it’s now Oct. and my Hb1AC is 6.2%. I’ve been prescribed daily insulin injections, 2gr of metformin, jardiance and trajenta daily, I’m hoping that at my next specialist appointment in Nov. that he’ll take me off insulin. The most significant way I think I’ve achieved this(my doctor and diabetes nurse actually hugged me) has been through diet with the aid of medication. I’ve been careful with my carb intake, increased pure water, a diabetes specific supplement powder that you add to water but I haven’t denied myself a croissant or doughnut( once a week cheat day) also lots of protein and cruciferous vegetables.
I was on the fence about trying a puck screen but honestly just for the cleanliness aspect I might grab one. And paper filters sound like just what I need to clean up the espresso from the Barista Express just a little bit. Thanks for the video!
Good video. When I rinse my paper filter in the flush on the Decent I put the puck screen on top. Benefits: i keep it in place when drying the basket sides - occasionally before I have dislodged the paper filter when doing that - not great. Also, warms up the puck screen - helps with thermal control - not an issue on the Decent with its real time temp measurement at group head but could be more helpful on other machines.
You have to use a puck screen if you make espresso in my opinion. Simply for the cleaning purposes of the grouphead and shower screen. In my experience it keeps literally every bit of coffee off of the gasket and screen. Especially when after I put the puck screen in my basket I give it a bit of a light blow to remove any coffee dust that's around and or on top of the screen.
Great explanations. Thanks. Paper filters are interesting on longer pre-infusions…
What size hole punch do you recommend for 54mm porta filter?
Great post. Corollary for filter papers: hand grinding gets even slower/more laborious. I love my 1Zpresso J-Max, but I'm now saving up for a good automatic so I can save my arms, and serve more guests, with my Flair 58 setup.
Hi, great material! What do you think is better, using paper filter and get for example 18s extraction or not using it and get around 25s holy grail extraction? I am wondering because when i switch to the one step finer grinding i have 48s with the filter and coffee seems to be overextracted, so currently i use filters as a helper to achieve proper extraction time, so for example if i have around 30 seconds i put a paper to achieve 25s, if i have around 25s without a filter i'll leave it since next grinder step would be too fine for 25s with the filter. Just wondering if that have sense, or there are more reasons to use paper filters than increase water flow rate and potential health benefits? maybe the main reason is consistency as you mentioned? I use commandante grinder and it is not so super easy to dial the setting to achieve perfect flow rate. Depends on coffe and other factors ofc. Just wondering what are your thoughts about that.
Thank you for posting this information. I found your videos very helpful.
What a great result within espresso, with the paper filter below the puck! (And the puck screen also, which is already a must for my shower's sake)
Thank you!
Slightly - barely noticeable - more clarity and quite a lot more extraction! Both these improvements at once, with a classical conical burr grinder (Niche) is quite an unexpected experience...
I was already using (and recycling a few times) a double paper filters within the moka pot, above and below the puck, for different purposes (avoiding wild flow and filtering fines out). Now finding out that the filters are useful also for espresso makes me happy (even if they suit a zen-mode-espresso-workflow...).
I wonder if the paper filter below the espresso puck could be reused more than one time without sacrifiyng much the taste...
Edit: great success also with a mini paper filter at the bottom of the funnel-shaped single-dose basket (I've already been regularly using with pleasure the meticulous-prep-needing conical single dose basket)
Great breakdown! I have that hole punch, and it's alright but some of the edges can end up a bit ragged. It's no problem and won't affect the cup, but def not as nice as the Portapapers. I only use the filter papers when I need them, as you had mentioned fast flowing shots like a Rao Allonge that would otherwise blow out and benefit from the slightly finer grind. But I'll sacrifice some extraction for more normal shots, if only for the simplicity!
On the puck screen, were you noticing much coffee making it up the group head? I've been breaking down the group of the DE1 monthly to clean the brass parts (easy btw with 4 screws), and it's been really clean without a puck screen. Might be the difference between a fwd and backflush, and with weekly fwd flushes to clean the exit path anyways. For me, it's preferable to clean the group monthly rather than weekly maintenance of a puck screen. Up to user preference!
And I'm right behind you on whether a puck screen affects extractions significantly. My take is that if you can blow out a candle from behind a puck screen (which you can), it won't deflect water much to redistribute water. There's an argument about reducing headspace, but I'd rather use a properly sized basket and fill that space with coffee than a screen.
I've been using a puck screen for a year and a half. I wouldn't be without it.
Thanks. Detail explanation and unbias as usual. However, as you've kept emphasizing it is for those of us who's aren't afraid of adding extra steps in our workflow... It's not for me. Though i'm mostly making coffee for myself, but it's always in rush in the morningm Gosh, the Malaysian KL traffic.
Yeah, I am looking into cutting down steps in my workflow. So an extra step will bother me. Thanks for sharing.
BTW, have u encounter grind setting drift on your niche? Mine started drifting to coarser setting every grind. I realize it when i dial in my shot and the next day shot was significantly faster. Then I recheck my setting and found that the funnel/setting collar drifted. I did a quick fix and I am still testing it.
Have a nice day.
I have the Breville bambino.. (54mm) I want to use a filter in the basket bottom .. I think that a hole punch is the way to go .. but, can you recommend a size (hole punch)
Thanks for the great video. I have a question though. If I want to make my own paper filter what are the paper specifications? Thanks.
Puck screen helps with water distribution on machines like Barista Express which in turn improves coffee extraction and reduces channeling. Also, aeropress filters work like a charm in Flair’s low flow basket. However, What I found is that filter makes more mess with dark roast, shot tastes too bitter even after dialling in grind size.
Better distribution makes intuitive sense to me, but in practice I just didn’t notice a major difference even on the 54mm Brevilles. But if you’re noticing better results, who’s to say you’re wrong!? Thanks for sharing :)
There might not be enough free space between the shower screen and puck screen. Perhaps, slightly bigger basket will fix your issue.
On my old machine, it did NOT have a single dose basket. So I had to use my double dose basket for a single dose. That resulted in a lot more space between the shower screen and the top of the coffee. Well, because of that extra sapce above the coffee . . . after pulling a shot, the puck was wet and soupy.
I put a puck screen on top of the coffee, and it stopped the wet soupy puck. In fact the puck was almost dry. So less coffee was getting into the shower screen and group head. Definitely a WIN.
But . . . there is no free lunch. It took me three tries to find a screen that fit properly.
- Measuring the basket then ordering 0.5mm smaller did not work. That first screen did not even go in. Either my caliper was off, or the screen was bigger than advertized.
- Tried again, slightly smaller, that did not work. The screen went in, but when used, it got stuck and had to be KNOCKED out. The metal screen expanded when heated with the hot water. So a perfect fit when cold was too big when hot and expanded.
- The third time was the charm. Screen drops in, and comes out.
I had to use a plastic spoon to get the puck screen out, before removing the coffee grounds. Cuz I did not want to drop the puck screen into the coffee waste. A bit of a hassle.
But it worked, and worked well, to keep the shower screen cleaner.
Great info. Which filter paper can we use to cut out our own? Thx
I’m using Hario V60 papers
I rarely write comments but wanted to thank you for amazingly helpful and clear videos. They help me make decisions very easily and with confidence. I have just one improvement suggestion: Can you try to break the mechanical tone of voice?
So do the paper filters actually filter out “Cafestol” like drip coffee filters? Because if so that’s amazing for your cholesterol and IM IN!! 🙏
Love my puck screen for keeping things clean and tidy.
Thank you bro!
@Lifestyle Lab. For 51mm Delonghi la specialista maestro espresso machine which pick screen you recommend. Also, 100u is better or 150u ? Please recommend.
Thanks for the video I am watching this video since my doctor warned me about the high ldl from the recent physical exam I’ve got. It almost convinced me to go back to drinking v60, but maybe I should try this before I give up drinking espresso. What’s your thoughts on this? Think using this paper-filter will help with reducing a significant amount of oil?
I don’t think the oil reduction is significant enough if you’re genuinely trying to reduce your intake for doctor recommended health reasons. I’d still suggest switching to a full paper filter method, and then maybe mixing this in on occasion :)
I bought puck screen. I think its worth it
puck screens dramatically improve shot to shot extraction time consistency and since using screens i no longer have to flush the group head clean. huge net benefit imho.
I've been using unbranded puck screen recently on my cheap machine and it helps with water distribution a lot, but the problem now is the puck screen is a little bit bent. I wonder if anyone's experiencing the same problem?
Paper filter in espresso will barely affect the amount of oil in the cup.
Oil is absorbed by the paper, and once the paper is “full” of oil- it won’t absorb any more. Since you have so much coffee in comparison to the small filter, very little will actually get filtered out.
Not much oil to absorb though.
@@Mandragara no there’s a lot of oil in coffee
Thanks for the great video. I use a filter paper on top and bottom of my puck. Also keeps that screen very clean between flushes. I was concerned the puck screen increases the time and wondered if that put more pressure on the rotary pump? And I used the Brother's filter paper - I have used Chemex paper and the punch and after a couple months that punch is dull dull dull. didn't punch out paper even when I used a single layer of paper. MHO 🙂
This is the second time I’ve watched this excellent video, but now I have a question: Most of the photos of this process show the paper filter sitting on TOP of the tamped portafilter grounds, but you’re saying to place it on the bottom? Do I place one on the bottom to improve extraction and one at the top to help keep the machine clean? Or is that the puck’s job? Thanks in advance for the clarity.
Paper at the top or puck screen at the top in my opinion are interchangeable and are only really for machine cleanliness. Yes :)
Questions: if adding a puck screen do you need to change the original dialing of espresso
Taste it and find out!
Which paper should be used with the Paper Punch? Where can I buy it?
You can use regular V60 papers or Chemex papers :)
Is there a hole punch for 54mm Breville BES870XL?
Interesting. If I look at the video correctly, you put the paper filter at the bottom of the porta filter. I put it on the top of the puck, just like a any metal screen. Which way should it be?
Depends on your intended purpose
Flow will only be impacted if it’s on the bottom. If on top, it’s just acting as a puck screen to keep your group head clean
Does papper filter on top works just the same as metalic puck screen? When I pull multiple shots it’s just frustrating to rinse the screen all the time. I’ll rather use papper filter on top instead.
Give it a try!
It won’t reduce the headspace as much, so you may need to adjust your dose, but yes a paper filter would serve the same purpose of keeping the group head clean
So I have a 54mm portafilter and found a 2” hole punch which I am thinking will work for my Barista Express. I already use a puck screen. Only thing is I’m not sure where to get the filter papers. Any suggestions?
Just buy V60 or Chemex papers :)
Did the 2inch hole punch work for the 54mm breville?
I didn’t end up getting them.
I don't have 150-micron puck screens but I have both 100-micron and 50-micron and my test results are a bit different. Same coffee and grind, 16g-in-36g-out (or rather 15.9g-16.2g in, 35g-37g out).
8 shots without puck screen 26-27s (2 outliers excluded, a >30s and a
Thanks for sharing your tests!
I do agree that WDT and overall puck prep is FAR more important than the puck screen itself.
Great video, very informative 👍☕
Wow, amazing video.
I haven't noticed any difference in the cup with the puck screen, I just use it for workflow. And I don't find it necessary to put a filter paper at the bottom because my pucks generally come out in one piece and the portafilter is quite clean, comparatively
100% agree on the puck screens, however as shown filter papers have more benefits than just a clean portafilter. The benefits to extraction are quite well defined
@@LifestyleLab_100% agree with you, It's mostly out of laziness that neglect to put a filter paper 😂
how about when u add filter paper both on the bottom and the top of the puck? essentially using a filter paper as a puck screen
Yup!
Paper filter can also be used on top, same advantage to group head cleanliness as a metal screen
I don't seem to get the 57mm puck screens for my Ascaso Dream...do you know of any particular brand which makes them?
The guy brought us some graphics anda data. Thanks
OMG, I would not think my scrapbooking card making supply such as a scallop punch would be usefull for making my coffee :-)
Does using portafilters interfere with using wdt? I guess you have to be very carefull now not to damage the paper with the needless...
is the whole puncher you linked work well for decent portafilter ? The goodbrother link says decent portafilter should use papers sized 55 mm but the puncher you linked is 2.25 inch (27.15 mm). thanks.
You’re talking about a 0.7mm diameter difference, or 0.35mm off each side, almost negligible. It works well for the Decent basket :)
Do the filters using the punch hole in the description fit your 18gram Decent basket? Or which basket are you using them in?
I’m using the scalloped 2.25” ones in my Decent basket. That’s the clip shown when taking about that option (decent basket and all)
Hello, thanks for your video. Is it possible to use the metal puck screen filter in place of the paper filter at the bottom? I don't like the fact that i have to discard a paper filter for every coffee so i was wondering if a metal filter will do.
Unfortunately because of the way baskets taper at the bottom, a metal filter will not fit in place of a paper one
@@LifestyleLab_ right. Thanks for the answer!
I only find filters for 58.5mm but I have the bezzera bz10 with 58mm. What sice should I purchase ?
58.5 is the same as 58mm, that is the precision measurement many tools use. It will work on your machine :)
What about papers for the single shot basket?
Cant make my puck screen not to attach to the puck, and it is so hard to dettach it. Its literally a mess to take the puck off the portafilter. Any reccomendations there?
Sure, use a paper filter on top instead of a puck screen.
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While I'm not convinced this will be worth the effort, I love coffee and new projects enough to experiment with this idea. I'm curious to see how this affects shots on my ancient Gaggia Classic that has a tendency to give me muddy pucks after a shot.
The reduced cleaning alone makes it worth it
I beg to differ as to no noticeable difference; especially with the paper filter on bottom. have you tried using a refractometer during your testing?
I never said paper filters made no noticeable difference, they absolutely do :)
is the 2.25 inch Hole punch the right size for the IMS basket ? (For E61)
That’s what I’m using and works great :)
@@LifestyleLab_ Excellent. Thanks !
Does paper filter filter nano grains of coffee powders
Yes
100% agree with you, no difference for me. I do however think they are useless, thank you for the honest review.
What is the effect on the crema
Crema is supersaturated C02. These will have no effect on that
I love using the puck screen with my La Pavoni, as it keeps the group really clean. On the E-61 I actually prefer not to use the puck screen. While it keeps the group head clean, it is too clean. The group needs oil from the coffee to lubricate and puck elementals the oils and makes the lever harder to use and require lubrication more often. Personally, I prefer to drop the puck screen and back flush than to take apart and lubricate the lever on E-61. :)
Have anyone tried this paper hole punch with Breville oracle 58mm basket? TIA
I use the screen to keep the group head clean, but I still need to flush it anyway, and then I have to worry about getting the screan clean every time? Seems like adding a step for no reason.
Then don’t use it ;)
@@LifestyleLab_ Sigh, fine I'll use it : )
oh 👀☕️
The man himself! Oh hey Xris 👋
Weird, I got filter papers for my Silvia, and found the flow rate was greatly decreased without adjusting the grind...
Chemex style paper is too heavy, aeropress or hario v60 style papers better
3rd comment
This video is so interesting. Thankyou for explaining these pros and cons in detail about these two ideas.
Thanks for tuning in Jennifer!
You beat me to the comment section this morning 🙌
@@LifestyleLab_ 🤣♥️
My experience using paper filter is the shot going much faster if using paper filter. Should i grind finer to targetting same brewtime?
I thought there was channeling…
Always be dialing in to taste! But yes generally you’ll have to (are able to) grind finer when using a filter paper because of the faster flow. This doesn’t necessarily indicate channeling :) it’s just a byproduct of using a filter
Thanks for the answer. I was thinking not to using paper filter anymore, because of the fast flow. 🤣
@@endlessocean1731 honestly faster flow tends to be better. It's more consistent and high extracting
Is puck screen even necessary in a coffee shop?
I think the same as described in this video also applies to a commercial setting. It isn’t ever “necessary”, I saw little if not no improvement to shot quality, but cleanliness is a big consideration. In a cafe, the impact on cycle time might make this trade off not worth the effort due to regular cleaning and maintenance schedules
Nice video and I think you mean a complicated process that is 'making espresso'
Is there any 57mm pucks?
Not that I’ve seen… out of curiosity, which machine are you looking for a 57mm puck for?
@@LifestyleLab_ for my lelit. They use 57 mm on some models
And thanks for your reply and for the very thorough video!
I have an Oracle Touch and did not care for the screen. It had a chemical smell to it and even after washing it several times, I felt it made the shot smell bad
The link provided for the "Filter paper hole punch" is for the EK Success (sometimes shown as EK Tools) 2.25 inch punch. This tool cuts a perfect size circle for a standard 58mm portafilter basket. Unfortunately the product does not last. I ordered one from Amazon and it wouldn't work out of the box. Amazon sent a replacement that worked okay for a few hundred filters then rapidly stopped cutting a complete circle. I tried all the sharpening tricks including taking it to a knife sharpening professional with no improvement. I ended up contacting the manufacturer who provided me with a full refund. They claim it is not compatible for cutting filter paper.
I'm sorry you had that experience. I haven't encountered such issues in over a year of use
I have a crap machine that only goes to maybe 5 or 7 bars of pressure, plus the grounds i bought are not very fine because it was ground with an industrial grinder, would a Puck filter help extract my coffee better given these crap factors? 😂
Lower pressure isn’t necessarily a bad thing! I’d choose lower pressure over high pressure any day!
However, no, a puck screen will not help. What you need is a pressured filter basket if using pre-ground coffee
@@LifestyleLab_ oooh I'll definitely try that. Thanks!
When you put a filter under the puck, the flow is a lot faster. Do you grind finer, to compensate (add time to it) to the overall extraction? Or you'd just drink it as it is, faster extraction?
Whatever tastes best!
I custom made my own puck screen for only $5 per piece.
puck screen a good idea. not sure bout the paper
Will have to try it for yourself! It's a noticeable difference
@@LifestyleLab_ nice thanks
Cleaning the puck screen only makes me think what's the point
Ok the intro to this video alone is so well scripted....
puck screens really require regular ultrasonic baths to not give a negative effect.
Personally, I can recommend using an Aeropress paper on top of my puck instead. A 58.0mm tamper is good at pushing them into the basket after you've done the tamping.
Just toss them in cafiza with your other stuff every week or 2...
@@jamel4552 it's not enough to get enough of the gunk out
@@tommihommi1 speak for yourself
@@jamel4552 I'm not speaking for myself, I'm speaking about the fact that you leave coffee solids and oils inside the mesh unless you do a real deep cleaning. That's undisputable.
@@tommihommi1 this was something I was wondering about as a long time puck screen user! It seems to be giving me more spurty / channely results of late so I immediately thought of screen clogging. Most folks mentioned using a steam wand to purge them but I don’t have one. I picked up some cafiza but you reckon you need to go further?
🙏📃🥪
I think puck screens suck. Workflow is terrible and it doesn't seem to make that big of a diff.
Did you watch the video? 🤔
Yes.
The BS behind making espresso is crazy haha. Next will be using gold tamper so it tastes better hahahahhaha