I think you what you said is right, wrong beer to pick it up easily. For the one where you squeezed the oxygen out to taste bad or different in bad way there's something wrong, you even mentioned sour at the start, thats not from squeezing oxygen out, something else has gone on there. There is a reason breweries purge bottles before filling. The oxygen does its damage before the yeast can kick off again. Also some people are just a lot more sensitive to it, I can barely go back to bottled beers, unless they are big alcohol and not hop driven, unless I take the time to purge and things, too lazy for that these days, unless its a comp or for gifts. Great experiment John, cheers mate!
I think somehow with bottle priming there is a need for oxygen. Commercially filling cans or bottles is a different process with nothing to eat the oxygen so keeping it out would likely be much more important. I will certainly be revisiting this with a lighter brew.
Thats the thing yeast doesnt need oxygen at this stage, i mean besides there was something wrong with the middle beer obviously, the experiment went as expected, the flipped beer slightly worse then the other beer, and thats why, the damage gets done and it can't be reversed, its like rust, the damage is done, you try and patch it but you cant reverse it. The squeezing bottle thing i was taught in my advanced brewing course many years ago by a brewer that worked at CUB, but after many of my own experiments in the 10 years since, I found it works, not fool proof of course and far from perfect! I got asked many times to do a another experiment one after the neipa one, maybe I will. lol Look forward to yours mate. Cheers!
@@HomeBrewNetwork I just find it very interesting that the beer deprived of oxygen was the one with the most issues.... what to me seemed like a yeast caused off flavour; the standard brew was absolutely fine. AS you say, the yeast doesn't need oxygen, but does it's presence have an effect on the flavour....my car doesn't need premium fuel to go.... but it goes better with it. I seriously do not think that oxidation is anywhere near the issue it's made out to be in most beers. I will be doing a big hoppy IPA in the coming weeks, so will be doing this again and comparing those results.
@@littlejohnsbrewing the bigger the alcohol the less the issue will be noticed though the aroma will be harmed. And of course just like you say about brusloppy theres a bigger pitcher of the whole process too. It would be best done from a pressure vessel where no oxygen was present at all. Im not sure if youve ventured down near complete oxygen free brewing from fermenter to keg to glass but the difference is remarkable, we dont make this stuff up.
@@littlejohnsbrewing but there is credit in how long it takes you to drink it, drink it fast like you say most, besides neipas, hazies and maybe helles etc you may not notice, but i notice damage in most bottled beers pretty fast if you compare to a well kegged beer, unless you bottle reducing oxygen as mjch as you can.
I prefer to natural carb my kegs and out of curiosity purged the oxygen out of one while leaving it in the other. The one purged was no where near as good as the other. Great video, once again enjoyed having a beer and a chat with ya L.J 🍻👍
Me too, my reasoning is because I prime with sugar then fill, the sugar originally sits in a clump at bottom and by inverting the bottle (and a slight swish movement) it makes the sugar travel towards the neck of bottle and by then turning it back to normal position, the sugar travels back through the beer and some dissolving throughout the beer. My idea is that the sugar gets throughout the beer rather than clumping on bottom. I haven't really been concerned about the oxygen also mixing through the beer as I thought when bottle sits right side up, the oxygen will fill the headspace again. This video has got me thinking though and I will bottle some of next batch by not inverting bottle to see any difference. Also will bottle a few in PET and expel oxygen before tightening cap. Cheers
I've wanted to try making a neipa but I bottle and have been worried I'll spend all the money on hops and grain just for an oxidized beer. Almost considered buying an all rounder fermenter and use that as my keg and serve from it, but after seeing this maybe bottling is worth the risk and all the fear mongering online should be ignored?
My first and currently om NEIPA was bottled and had no signs of oxidation, it aged like any beer. I probably didn't hop as hard as some do but. I feel some care and effort to be clean and gentle on transfer and bottling increases your chances of avoiding issues.
Such a great experiment though, would be cool if you tried it again one day with a lighter coloured beer but even still. I've only ever capped normally and prefer to use glass but I was almost about to bust out my pet bottles specifically for the extra hoppy beers so I can squeeze the air out, I won't be doing that after watching this video. Cheers for the video and the reply
I think you what you said is right, wrong beer to pick it up easily. For the one where you squeezed the oxygen out to taste bad or different in bad way there's something wrong, you even mentioned sour at the start, thats not from squeezing oxygen out, something else has gone on there. There is a reason breweries purge bottles before filling. The oxygen does its damage before the yeast can kick off again. Also some people are just a lot more sensitive to it, I can barely go back to bottled beers, unless they are big alcohol and not hop driven, unless I take the time to purge and things, too lazy for that these days, unless its a comp or for gifts. Great experiment John, cheers mate!
I think somehow with bottle priming there is a need for oxygen. Commercially filling cans or bottles is a different process with nothing to eat the oxygen so keeping it out would likely be much more important. I will certainly be revisiting this with a lighter brew.
Thats the thing yeast doesnt need oxygen at this stage, i mean besides there was something wrong with the middle beer obviously, the experiment went as expected, the flipped beer slightly worse then the other beer, and thats why, the damage gets done and it can't be reversed, its like rust, the damage is done, you try and patch it but you cant reverse it. The squeezing bottle thing i was taught in my advanced brewing course many years ago by a brewer that worked at CUB, but after many of my own experiments in the 10 years since, I found it works, not fool proof of course and far from perfect! I got asked many times to do a another experiment one after the neipa one, maybe I will. lol Look forward to yours mate. Cheers!
@@HomeBrewNetwork I just find it very interesting that the beer deprived of oxygen was the one with the most issues.... what to me seemed like a yeast caused off flavour; the standard brew was absolutely fine. AS you say, the yeast doesn't need oxygen, but does it's presence have an effect on the flavour....my car doesn't need premium fuel to go.... but it goes better with it. I seriously do not think that oxidation is anywhere near the issue it's made out to be in most beers. I will be doing a big hoppy IPA in the coming weeks, so will be doing this again and comparing those results.
@@littlejohnsbrewing the bigger the alcohol the less the issue will be noticed though the aroma will be harmed. And of course just like you say about brusloppy theres a bigger pitcher of the whole process too. It would be best done from a pressure vessel where no oxygen was present at all. Im not sure if youve ventured down near complete oxygen free brewing from fermenter to keg to glass but the difference is remarkable, we dont make this stuff up.
@@littlejohnsbrewing but there is credit in how long it takes you to drink it, drink it fast like you say most, besides neipas, hazies and maybe helles etc you may not notice, but i notice damage in most bottled beers pretty fast if you compare to a well kegged beer, unless you bottle reducing oxygen as mjch as you can.
I returned home today to find this great video in my inbox. Many thanks, LJ.
I prefer to natural carb my kegs and out of curiosity purged the oxygen out of one while leaving it in the other. The one purged was no where near as good as the other. Great video, once again enjoyed having a beer and a chat with ya L.J 🍻👍
so same result in a keg, makes sense,
I always turn bottles upside down, maybe better not now.
Me too, my reasoning is because I prime with sugar then fill, the sugar originally sits in a clump at bottom and by inverting the bottle (and a slight swish movement) it makes the sugar travel towards the neck of bottle and by then turning it back to normal position, the sugar travels back through the beer and some dissolving throughout the beer. My idea is that the sugar gets throughout the beer rather than clumping on bottom. I haven't really been concerned about the oxygen also mixing through the beer as I thought when bottle sits right side up, the oxygen will fill the headspace again. This video has got me thinking though and I will bottle some of next batch by not inverting bottle to see any difference. Also will bottle a few in PET and expel oxygen before tightening cap. Cheers
I've wanted to try making a neipa but I bottle and have been worried I'll spend all the money on hops and grain just for an oxidized beer. Almost considered buying an all rounder fermenter and use that as my keg and serve from it, but after seeing this maybe bottling is worth the risk and all the fear mongering online should be ignored?
My first and currently om NEIPA was bottled and had no signs of oxidation, it aged like any beer. I probably didn't hop as hard as some do but. I feel some care and effort to be clean and gentle on transfer and bottling increases your chances of avoiding issues.
Such a great experiment though, would be cool if you tried it again one day with a lighter coloured beer but even still. I've only ever capped normally and prefer to use glass but I was almost about to bust out my pet bottles specifically for the extra hoppy beers so I can squeeze the air out, I won't be doing that after watching this video. Cheers for the video and the reply