James Ellroy: Where NOT to Start!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- A discussion of ideal starting points in the fervid 40 years of crime fiction Ellroy has produced.
Books mentioned:
LA Confidential (LA Quartert 3)
Brown’s Requiem
Lloyd Hopkins Trilogy including Blood on the Moon
Hollywood Nocturnes, Crime Wave, and Destination Morgue (short fiction and essays)
Perfidia (2nd LA Quartet 1)
To Start:
The Black Dahlia (LA Quartet 1)
American Tabloid (Underworld USA 1)
The Big Nowhere (LA Quartet 2)
My Dark Places explores the real life murder of Ellroy’s mother
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As an Ellroy fan my entire adulthood I would say that 'The Big Nowhere' was my first novel of his and I strongly believe is the best place to start. It's where he began his alliterative style that was perfected later and is essentially the start of his raging sensibility. I love it thoroughly. Danny Upshaw is by far my absolute favorite protagonist! Blood's a Rover is his most poetic and is an amazing coda to the entire LA Quartet and Underworld saga.
The Big Nowhere has much more of Ellroy's signature attributes than The Black Dahlia. Upshaw has quite a few in his corner based on the comments. I think he's an incredible character. I'm glad someone else really enjoyed Blood's a Rover. I loved the book and have been surprised at how it gets less attention. Hope you're having a great start to this week, Pat.
Cheers, Jack
I just finished “The Big Nowhere.” It has its flaws, but the bit where Upshaw kills himself… I’m pretty hard to surprise. I said: “Holy shit!” out loud. That got me
@@wessmith6367 Upshaw is such a well conceived and tragic character. Those last sentences from his point of view are unforgettable.
@@ramblingraconteur1616 Most of the characters in that book are well-conceived. Morally ambiguous, but you kinda root for them. I thought Buzz Meeks was a particularly interesting example of that.
I think that works way better in “The Big Nowhere” than in “The Black Dalhia.” I found that book to be a slog to get through. Wasn’t really rooting for anybody.
@@joeb5765 I agree that Big Nowhere might be his best, but, I’d actually suggest skipping BD. Doesn’t really connect to the other three as far as characters are concerned. I think Ellroy was just really finding his feet on that one, leaned in a little to hard on his tropes. Nobody is the least bit likable, the whole tone is a little too nihilistic. Not that the rest are exactly upbeat. But, might just be me.
Hey there! Ellroy’s turning the 2nd Quartet into a Quintet. He’s scrapping direct sequels to the WW2 setting of Perfidia and This Storm & instead setting the latter 3 novels in L.A. ‘62 where they’ll tie back to the previous 2 novels! The third Quintet entry just released, The Enchanters! Had it signed by Ellroy at a signing recently! He’s a riot!
@@robertgallagher5285 That’s what I was saying; he’s reconfiguring the 2nd Quartet into a Quintet, w/ The Enchanters acting as the follow up to “Perfidia” and “This Storm”. The next 2 books will also star Otash, be set in ‘62, and somehow tie back to the WW2 settings of the first 2 books. Ellroy stated as such in many interviews! Also, Steven Powell (foremost Ellroy scholar and his biographer) has posted about this too.
Did not read this only watched the video thus did not know this till now erased my ignorance ha,ha,!!!!!
I would recommend Clandestine as a good book to start with. Not as dense as later books, but all the themes are there.
Those themes do seem to emerge in Clandestine. For readers who really love his body of work, it can be interesting to read Ellroy's earlier works and get a sense of how he developed his voice as an author.
Cheers, Jack
"My Dark Places" was my first Ellroy book, I discovered him and his work through thiss book (it was a professor recomendation) And it was an outstanding piece of biography. I felt in love at the first chapter, so I came to your video. I will start with the black dalia!
I hope you enjoy The Black Dahlia. Please let me know! My Dark Places is interesting as a window into how Ellroy’s childhood shaped his worldview as a crime writer.
Cheers, Jack
My Dark Places was my first book too... I read The Black Dahlia years ago also. I have just ordered second hand copies of the LA Quartet.... LA Confidential arrived first today so I will wait to start at the beginning again!
I think I started with My Dark Places too -- either that or Black Dahlia. Both good places to start. Then the rest of the L.A. books. Then the early books, which I liked more than our humble reviewer does. Then I started the American Tabloid series, and stopped dead. Just did not like it at all -- to me, it reads like someone other than Ellroy writing a parody of his style. Has the man been subsumed by the image?
And hey! I like his first few novels. They don't reach the heights of his later work, but they're solid, rewarding crime fiction that already has a lot of his tropes
I've had American Tabloid on my shelf for a long time. Reading it now. Love it.
Saw Black Dahlia at my fave used book shop and picked it up. Looking forward to grooving it when I'm done with Tabloid. Dig the video. Dig the shirt.
I started with Black Dahlia this year because we have to read a book in my English class for 15 minutes. I was surprised to find that Black Dahlia was in a high school library, and I picked it up and I read it. I was surprised by how much I got invested in the story.
Glad you’ve been enjoying it!
I’ve only read the L.A. Quartet and The Big Nowhere was my favorite book from it. I heard Ellroy speak at a reading/signing in NYC in the early 1990s. He is…well, let’s say he has a “unique” personality 😉.
Oh wow! I have only read a few articles that included interviews with him, but I can imagine that personality. It’s interesting how many LA Quartet readers I have found who enjoy The Big Nowhere most. There’s something very compelling about it. Thanks for sharing! I hope you’re having a great week.
Best, Jack
I originally only wanted to read LA Confidential, but after some research, found it was the third in the quartet and would understand more if I read the whole thing in order.
Ironically, I liked The Big Noehere better than LA Confidential. It was just so beautifully tragic.
@@ramblingraconteur1616 The thing about Ellroy's public appearances is...he loves to BS. It's a show. He's a master at it and his fans just eat it up. I don't know if you can truly gauge his personality from his interviews either, because some of the theatrical BS slips in there as well. I get the sense that he likes being an enigma. My Dark Places is the one place I think that you can really get a true sense of the man and what shaped him. Uneven as it may be, he really pulls no punches there.
The Black Dahlia was the first Ellroy novel I read. I was a freshman in college in 1988, and I remember that book really gripping me. Overall, I think American Tabloid is his best, a remarkable piece of work.
Wow, you were there on The Black Dahlia right at the beginning! I’m right with you on American Tabloid being an incredible work. I ended up also really enjoying Blood’s a Rover to close out that trilogy. Hope you’re having a great weekend, Bill.
Cheers, Jack
Just saw this video after finishing L.A Confidential, lol. Figured I’d pick up this book after my first watch of the movie. I’ll have to read the other three books.
First read about Ellroy in his Paris Review interview, which was quite interesting. Then I read the Black Dahlia a few months ago; such an experience! I now have twelve of his books sitting on my shelf. Currently reading "The Big Nowhere" and am loving it so far. Thanks for these recommendations!
So glad you are enjoying The Big Nowhere! It is different enough from The Black Dahlia that some readers don’t like it, and I hope you continue to find Ellroy to be a writer you return to. Is there a point of view character in The Big Nowhere that you have enjoyed the most? I hope you have a great weekend, George!
Best, Jack
I get what you're saying, but I enjoyed the Hopkins books. I also enjoyed Clandestine, published in 1982 and where Lt. Smith first appears, and the Black Dalia is mentioned. Yet those books had yet to be published. These are nice reads, turn a page or two.
Very comfy video. Its always a pleasure to hear a kind, articulate voice. Over here in MX there are very few readers of Ellroy. I think American Tabloid (oh how i love it) and The Cold 6000 are his masterpieces, in which his style and themes peaked. If im not wrong Ellroy himself said in an interview that LA confidential wasnt his best book but it was his biggest success. Hard to get a sense of which one would be his best then, since he loves saying his books are "masterpieces all, preceding all his following masterpieces". Thanks for this video. I wish TH-cam had more content on his earlier work, a quick search throws you a lot of Bloods a Rover and Perfidia. No thank you!
Best, Sergio
Thanks, Sergio! I prefer the Underworld USA trilogy to the LA Quartet most of the time, but I do love reading those LA books. The way that the miasma stains so much of the world that sprawls across American Tabloid, Cold Six Thousand, and Blood’s a Rover is just incredible. Ellroy is an endless self-promoter, but I guess I forgive him each time I read one of these books.
I hope you have a great week!
Cheers, Jack
Brilliant video. Ellroy is fantastic. I love his use of Yiddish street jive and how minor character dialogue has distinctive personality. Also Danny Upshaw is the greatest Noir protagonist ever. He really was too good for the world. I haven't gotten around to the 2nd Quartet yet and I'm a little apprehensive after reading Destination Morgue and struggling to breach the prose but I would revisit Dudley, Kay and Hush Hush. Thanks for this.
Wow, Martin, thanks for the kind words. I like that description of Upshaw. He is the uptime noir hero as noir victim.
Destination Morgue was not particularly strong, but Perfidia was interesting if a bit long. I’m hopeful that when I read This Storm the story will grow.
I hope you are having a great week!
Best, Jack
You, by the way, would be "competent" to do these videos on the works of far more authors than myself. Glad to see this video as I'm about to go film my next.
This was great Jack. Thank you.
Very happy to share, Brian. Now we’ll have to see who else I can drum up one of these for. Looking forward to a corner with Cormac!
Best, Jack
Interesting video. I would start at The Big Nowhere if I could go back. I started with American Tabid, which in its onw way was pretty damn perfect.
I started with American Tabloid when it first appeared in paperback, circa 1996 and I've read everything Ellroy's published.
I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the Lloyd Hopkins trilogy. It's lesser Ellroy for sure, but it would be a great place to build from. Brown's Requiem and Clandestine are certainly for completists only.
I'm also rather fond of some of his short fiction. I picked up Hollywood Nocturnes before I was all in on Ellroy and it really helped seal the deal. I love meeting Buzz Meeks in Since I Don't Have You and I have fond memories of seeing him played by Gary Busey against James Woods' version of Mickey Cohen in the TV adaptation as part of the Fallen Angels series from the early 90s. Well worth checking out if you've never seen it.
I may have just got lucky starting with Tabloid and then hoovering up the LA Quartet while I was waiting for him to write The Cold Six Thousand, but it made me an Ellroy fan for life.
Great video, thanks!
Thanks for the kind words! I have heard of the adaptation but never seen it, so thanks for the recommendation.
I think Hollywood Nocturnes is the strongest of the short work compilations. Ellroy does a nice job of keeping those characters in the same world, anticipating those shared universe concepts.
I read The Black Dahlia over one long afternoon and night in college and then the rest of the LA Quartet that June. There have been a couple others I have read in massive chunks because I become so immersed in the world.
Do you have a favorite from his novels?
Hope you’re having a great week. Thanks again!
Best, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 My favourite will always be American Tabloid. I was in my mid 20s. I was a young dad. I had no idea you were allowed to do stuff like that in a book. It rocked my world.
I love seeing James Cromwell (Capt. Dudley Smith in L.A. Confidential) turn up in old All In The Family reruns as Archie's co-worker Stretch Cunningham.
Superb video! I've been reading James Ellroy for years. This is all outstanding advice, and spot-on analysis. (The Big Nowhere, in my opinion, contains some of his finest prose.)
Thanks! I’ve really enjoyed reading Ellroy for about 15 years now. It has been amazing to discover how many fans there are of The Big Nowhere! I hope you’re having a great week, Andrew. Are there other crime writers who you really enjoy?
Cheers, Jack
I just stumbled across this video. I knew as I started to watch that you'd recommend American Tabloid as one the best places to start! I agree. It's his masterpiece, imo. I religiously read all of Ellroy up until Perfidia, and then I stopped. I even went back and read all of his earlier novels, which I enjoyed, but I agree weren't very good. Although I do still have a soft spot for Killer on the Road. Next to American Tabloid, my favourite is White Jazz. In that book he really pared down the prose. It's almost straight up avant garde, experimental literature. Neat video.
Thanks for the kind words, Carl. I she. Really enjoyed finding so many other readers who appreciate American Tabloid. There’s a different confidence with Ellroy’s writing in the Underworld USA trilogy. White Jazz is very underrated. That’s the apotheosis of his “telegraph” style.
Perfidia didn’t work the same way his other novels had, but I’ve been hearing good things about This Storm, so I may reread Perfidia and then dove into the storm.
Are there other crime writers that you really enjoy?
Cheers, Jack
After reading all of the novel series, I didn’t understand JE (his signature in “signed copy” books) until I read “My Dark Places” about the disappearance of his mother. I’m not sure if I would recommend starting with this, but I didn’t really understand where he was coming from until I read his memoir.
That's very true. Ellroy seems to have been truly haunted by his mother's murder, as I believe anyone would. For readers who do not want to dive into the full, murky horror, the essay he wrote about the genesis of that book and then published in Crime Wave, "My Mother's Killer", lays out how deeply he was affected, even decades later.
Short stories are good but for aficionados, they don't stick with you. Clandestine and Brown's Requiem are fine, B. Requiem is sort of charming in a way and a promising start. Avoid the Lloyd Hopkins trilogy which Ellroy himself doesn't talk about nowadays (it should tell you something). Absolutely DO read the LA Quartet. But personally I started with My Dark Places (excellent) and moved to American Tabloid, I was amazed at how good it was. Then I was hooked
Strangely, I started with "White Jazz". I knew Ellroy by name, because of the advertising of Curtis Hanson' movie in 1997. I found that book astonishing. I always loved noir movies, especially "Chinatown", "Laura" and "Touch of evil". The depth of the story, the way the author delines the characters, the action, the catharsis. What a surprise! Only the writing style was a bit strange, almost telegraphic. After I finished that, I immediately wanted to try another Ellroy's work. Than I bought "The big nowhere". Even the name was fascinating. I found it even better. Three of the best protagonists I ever read. The real antagonist, Smith, is perhaps the best evil character in modern literature, on pair with McCarty's Judge Holden. Maybe the story is sometimes convoluted and not so well explained until the end, but the plot is ruthless, surprising and without half-measures. The real heart of darkness of Ellroy's work. Something he never reached again. "L.A. Confidential" was even better in terms of pace, but it has so much material that it could be used for other books. So much plotlines. And although I think "American Tabloid" is his best book, because I found it the most balanced and well written, it's not a noir story. "The big nowhere" still is my favourite, because no other Ellroy's book can take you on similar trip across cruelty, depravity, but also grace and will of redemption. And there aren't many books that make you stand for the protagonists as "The big nowhere" does. Now I give a chance to "Perfidia" and "This storm".
I love seeing this. Am re-reading Ellroy - LA Quartet & Underworld Trilogy, also Perfidia & blah, blah, blah. I say start from Black Dahlia. I write here to recognize Buzz Meeks - in three of the L.A.Q novels, the third being the death of Buzz at the hands of the longest running character. Great scene - the Okie accepting the consequences of his actions after a helluva run.
😂 solid intro!! Brian will be very proud
I wonder how many comrades were at his reunion?
Very interesting video!
I was wondering what to read after The Black Dahlia which I very much enjoyed. I was thinking I would read some of his previous books like Clandestine or the LA Noir Lloyd Hopkins trilogy, but it seems many people agree that they are not his best works. So in the end I decided I would continue with The Big Nowhere which I bought on Ebay a few days ago (international delivery will take forever it seems though…).
Hollywood Nocturnes seems interesting too and maybe I will read these short stories while I wait for The Big Nowhere as it is his strongest short story collection it seems, and most importantly someone who also suggested it to me on a reddit thread told me that some of the characters in The Black Dahlia occur also in Hollywood Nocturnes. I really enjoyed the characters in The Black Dahlia and was a bit disappointed that they would not be present in the subsequent books of the LA Quartet, so Hollywood Nocturnes seems interesting now to me. Is it much weaker than the rest of his books though? And is it at least stronger than his first books?
Hollywood Nocturnes has one really long story that is not quite as strong as The Black Dahlia, and then a few short stories that vary in quality. It's not a "bad" collection, by any means. I enjoyed it when I read it about fifteen years ago.
The LA Quartet really develops to explore other aspects of the 1940s and 1950s in Los Angeles. While the characters change, Ellroy's attitude does not. The final book in his Underworld USA trilogy, Blood's a Rover, really reminded me of the elements of The Black Dahlia that I loved the most while the presence of Kay as a point of view in Perfidia did not conjure the same sense.
Best of luck with enjoying more Ellroy!
Cheers, Jack
I read most of old Ellroy (not the new quartet).
Big nowhere Is my favorite, the three characters are Just so well comstructed....the closet upshaw, meeks and considine are so real...i Just love this book. Confidential has a very good story, but Big nowhere has characters that you just love
I have really enjoyed finding out how many of us love The Big Nowhere! I’m hoping This Storm is stronger than Perfidia when I open it up.
Cheers, Jack
L A Confidential is the only book of his that I read because at the time the movie was going to come out. Both me and my mom read it before we went and saw the movie in a packed theater. I gave the book to my uncle who never gave it back became a fan of his work.
Did you enjoy LA Confidential?
@@ramblingraconteur1616 As I recall yes. Although both me and .y mom were total confused when we went to see the movie because how much they changed and shrunk the time line
Great video! Your disclaimer at the end really drove it home!
Thanks!
Curious what you might think of the last couple Ellroy efforts (Widespread Panic, The Enchanters)
(if you've read them of course...)
Excellent video! I’m a longtime Ellroy reader (and re-reader) and I agree with all of your choices and recommendations! Cheers!📖👍
Thanks! I have enjoyed Ellroy for my entire adulthood, so it’s been great to connect with other readers who love his work. Which of his books is your favorite?
Best, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 Off the top of my head I would have to go with L.A. CONFIDENTIAL and AMERICAN TABLOID, I think because they’re both multiple storylines on a large canvas covering long periods of time. And I love all of the “document inserts” throughout each. Plus, from his early work, I’m a big fan of KILLER ON THE ROAD. These three are definitely the ones I’ve re-read the most.
Well shit, I started with LA Confidential. I guess I'm boned. Still loved it, I think it's one of the finest crime novels ever written.
Great video. You got yourself a sub.
LA Confidential is an excellent book. There's no "wrong" place to start, so I hope you enjoy reading more Ellroy!
Cheers, Jack
By chance, my jumping off point was Perfidia. I’m glad I started there as it chronologically predates his other works. After reading several other of his novels, it’s still my favorite.
Glad you enjoyed it enough to keep exploring more of Ellroy’s works! Have you read This Storm?
Cheers, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 Currently on This Storm, after reading several of his older works out of sequence. Happy to return to this phase of his career.
Start with Brown's Requiem.
Wow, great video. Very informative and right to the point I wanted to get information about. Having watched L.A. Confidential, the movie, a couple of times, I wanted to start reading the novel which I found to be a part of a quartet. So I wasn't sure where to start exactly and your video enlightened me. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words! I assume you enjoyed LA Confidential if you’ve seen it a few times. Hopefully you find much to explore and enjoy in Ellroy’s novels, different as they are.
Cheers, Jack
Big Nowhere, Clandestine (although this one gets much better if you read his biography before it) and honestly Brown's Requiem are all great places to start
Nice! I have only read the Black Dahlia. I loved the movie LA Confidential! Will have to read the second one then pick it up! I didn’t realize it was a quartet! 😊
The movie and book for LA Confidential are surprisingly different, subtle plot changes yielding major shifts in tone. I really enjoy both. The Big Nowhere novel might even have a closer feel to the LA Confidential film as I think about it.
I hope you’re doing well, Sandy.
Best, Jack
I agree with some of what you say but the Lloyd Hopkins sequence in a way is the template he uses for some of his later characters and therefore are important. American Tabloid, however, typifies the modern noir style over the police proceural unorthodox cop cycle of the earler books are in a different class. As a sixties mirror it s a cracking place to begin. His new Freddy O sequence is promising, although Widespread Panic does have flaws.
I enjoyed Clandestine. I view it as a warmup to the LA Quartet. Start with those, with Clandestine optional, in order. This allows the reader to experience Ellroy’s growth as a writer.
That’s an interesting way to view Clandestine. I may have to read that again with this perspective. Which Ellroy work is your favorite, Gene?
Cheers, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 Probably The Big Nowhere. I just reread The Black Dahlia, loved it again. Starting a reread of The Big Nowhere. I was going to start American Tabloid, but chose to hold off and listen to the Audio version coming up in a few weeks.
Very informative video. I own American Tabloid but haven't started it yet. I'll be sure to skip those others you mentioned.
Thanks for the kind words. I certainly hope that you enjoy American Tabloid when you have a chance to read it!
Best, Jack
I just finished My Dark Places. It starts out dry crime factsabout his murdered mother in 1958. Blends into his take on the event and followed his life brilliantly. Sadly it trips over a ton of useless facts about 1/2 way through the bloated 350 pages and leads nowhere. I own his Underworld Trilogy and still plan to give it a read.
That is a definite weakness in My Dark Places. It’s such a personal book for Ellroy, and I think the details mean so much to him, but it does not always serve the narrative, though his final assessment of what he believes happened is quite brutal. I hope that you enjoy the Underworld USA trilogy and that this week has started well for you, Allen!
Best, Jack
Good tip on L.A Confidential especially. I had no idea and probably would pick it up in a sale bin, since I loved the movie. All around really great advice.i think I saw The Black Dahlia too. But don’t remember it. Interesting that skipping it would be even better. I kind of like it when I read a less great, but still good book to start with, so the next book contrasts it and makes it even more enjoyable in some ways.
Oh, I can sympathize with that feeling of starting with a good but not great work so that the later reading experiences aren’t letdowns.
I love the LA Confidential adaptation. There are some critical differences from the book, but I really enjoy both.
@@ramblingraconteur1616 did you see The Black Dahlia adaptation as well?
@@SpringboardThought yes, I didn’t think it was as strong. I suspect the studio had edited plenty out as it felt jumbled.
Do you have a favorite crime author? Is it Ellroy or someone else? I'm very curious because like you I read a lot of literature and I like my crime fiction to have a lot of depth.
Welp, I did exactly the opposite and started with LA Confidential. My first Ellroy book. Now I want something similar so I guess I should start by one of your recommendations.
Hahaha, LA Confidential is great, so hopefully you enjoy more of these!
Cheers, Jack
I think his early books are okay, but not great. The Black Dahlia was where he hit his stride. I love the LA Quartet. I also love his US Trilogy. I have yet to read the 2nd LA Quartet but I want to. I haven't read Widespread Panic either.
I completely agree with where he hit his stride. Perfidia was imperfect but interesting. I’m hoping to read This Storm this summer and am looking forward to it. Cheers, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 I love his USA trilogy, but it does get crazier and crazier. At times it just made my head spin and I had to set it down for a day, and I'm a very fast reader. It's based on real history, but I really prefer his more L.A. centered work. It's my hometown and he knows it like few writers with the exception of Chandler, Ross MacDonald, and Walter Mosley.
@@angusorvid8840 those other three writers are mainstays in my reading. What’s your favorite from Ross MacDonald?
L.A. Confidential was the first Ellroy novel I read and I read it when I was a teenager because I loved the movie. It was a tough read for me because I was just a kid. I've been revisiting Ellroy recently as an adult of 40 years and so much jumps out at me now that went way over my head as a teenager.
The matter of fact way he can describe brutal acts of violence.
The American police state and authoritarianism.
The casually racist attitudes of so many of his characters.
I really agree with what you said about how some people shouldn't read his work. It is some truly ugly stuff. I probably shouldn't have been reading it at the age I was but I'm glad to see it again as a person of more advanced age.
So many great points here! I completely agree that there is an age or mental/emotional maturity that needs to be reached before exploring Ellroy. I’ve been reading him for about 17 years, and rereading reveals so much.
Have you read any of David Peace’s novels?
Cheers, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 I've been wanting to get into David Peace. I've stopped and started a few of his books. His prose is really interesting to me. I've dabbled with the Red Riding Trilogy and Tokyo Year Zero. Some day I really want to sit down and read him.
_First!_ WTG Jack. You know IMA big Elroy fan. I'm so mad at myself for missing his book signing at Powell's for _The Storm,_ 2019.
Didn’t he have a new novel come out this year? Maybe he will be back in Portland. What’s your favorite from Ellroy, Allen?
@@ramblingraconteur1616 _Black Dahlia,_ that entire series.
I’ve read the first three of the LA Quartet, the Underworld Trilogy, and Brown’s Requiem (nothing burger)I couldn’t get into Perfidia.
I also read the novella Shakedown (I remember nothing significant) which is supposed to be the base if his new novel Widespread Panic.
I did not know that about Shakedown, Greg, thanks for letting me know! Someone else read Brown’s Requirm?!? I can’t believe that book was reprinted once Ellroy was successful. Hope you’re having a nice week!
Best, Jack
I've always recommended people to start with 'Clandestine', then on to the LA Books. I can see the sense in skipping The Black Dahlia. I don't personally consider The Black Dahlia as part of the 'Quartet'. I call them a trilogy, The Big Nowhere, LA Con, White Jazz.
Clandestine is an interesting choice. I agree that The Black Dahlia feels very separate from the three subsequent books, both in style and voice. I sometimes wonder if it’s the LA Quartet because Dahlia was more commercially successful than his earlier works. Have you read Perfidia and This Storm? Hope your 2022 is starting well!
Cheers, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 The Black Dahlia is very much thematically in line with the rest of the LA Quartet as well as the Underworld USA trilogy as it is the first of his books to be heavily involved with the real history of the time and unapologetically portraying it as the corrupt, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and all-around brutal era that it was. I think most people overlook this when questioning its place among the rest of the series because the other books share a central villain and his prose and story structure become more iconic as he refined it with each new entry.
Hi Jack! I just started the LA Quartet and liked The Black Dahlia! Now I’m on The Big Nowhere, and I really like the development of his prose work. But I’ve got a question for you:
Since I’ve got all of his books in that world now, including the two new ones, would you recommend reading the LA Quartet and then the two new ones, because I think those two are chronologically right after, right? Or read in publication order? USA trilogy and theeen Perfidia, etc?
Hi, Fraser, glad you enjoyed the Black Dahlia! I’d read the original LA Quartet before starting Perfidia. There’s a strong through line in the first three books with White Jazz as a sort of coda in parts.
The Underworld USA Trilogy is its own piece. There are elements and characters that are mentioned in earlier novels (Howard Hughes’ lackeys) that are shared, but the books don’t involve common plots, so those three can be read at any juncture.
Hope you continue to enjoy them!
Cheers, Jack
@@ramblingraconteur1616 ohh excellent! So probably best to just continue right through to the second LA series without mudding it up with the USA. Excellent! I’m glad I asked because some people I saw insisting it’s better if you read it after the USA trilogy and that didn’t make much sense to me. Maybe if it’s to watch him develop as a writer? But surely not in terms of chronology :s thanks for the clarification!
Well shit I just finished LA confidential. It was really good and not very hard to grasp the weight of what was going on and I didn’t read the first two
LA Confidential is a very good book, and can certainly be read on its own. There are some ideas that carry over from The Big Nowhere that amplify what Ellroy does in the later book. Glad you enjoyed it!
Cheers, Jack
Ha, I tried reading Blood On The Moon when I saw it in the library. It was terrible. I started with Black Dahlia and then read White Jazz. I will read the rest of his celebrated works one of these days when I have the time to dedicate some time and attention.
I did the LA Quartet one summer in college. Then it was Brown’s Requiem, and I took a break of a few years before diving into the Underworld trilogy. I’d be curious to know which one is your favorite once you’ve sample more, Duncan. Hope this has been a good week for you.
Best, Jack
Good video. I am going to buy my uncle some of the ones you recommend for his birthday. I don’t think he has read them. 🤞
Thanks, Stephanie. I hope he doesn’t have them yet but enjoys them in the near future!
Best, Jack
This may sound sacrilege.
But dig it. I think I enjoy the Underworld trilogy more than the first LA Quartet.
The first coupla books total skidsville my fellow hepcat daddy-o.
But in all seriousness, if someone wants some cool police thrillers I'd guide 'em to the Quartet.
If they want mind melting, sheer insanity with political intrigue then Underworld is where I'll tell people to start reading.
I agree! We can be Ellroy heretics together. I probably prefer the Underworld USA Trilogy to the LA Quartet most days. The LA Quartet is excellent, but there is something unique about what Ellroy aims for and accomplishes in the later trilogy. It’s not “just” detective fiction, though that is a genre I deeply love. I hope you’ve had a great week!
Best, Jack
Hey man I just want to say thanks because I was planning on getting into Ellroy and this video came in super handy! I ended up starting with Black Dahlia and read the whole quartet, my favourite being LA Confidential.
With the quartet finished, I feel starved for more detective noir stories set in the early Post-War Era but I can't find anything that catches my eye. Do you have any recommendations similar to Ellroy, with police politics / corruption / interdepartmental conflict? I was thinking maybe Rage in Harlem
Thanks for the kind words! I am glad you enjoyed the quartet. In terms of series or books that capture that spirit you described, the best match might be the Red Riding Quartet by David Peace: 1974, 1977, 1980, and 1983. They are set in northern England.
I really enjoy the Chester Himes books, but they are more police procedurals, not exploring corruption like Ellroy. A more contemporary series is the Harry Hole books by Jo Nesbo, set in Norway. Michael Dibdin’s Aurelio Zen series set in Italy might be another one to explore.
The feeling of social corruption, rather than municipal/departmental corruption, is also a theme in the works of Newton Thornberg and early crime novels from Elmore Leonard.
Hope you enjoy whatever it is you read next, Michael!
Best, Jack
Share your passion for Ellroy, and respect your views, but differ re his best work/where to start.
I'd suggest starting with my favorite, The Big Nowhere, all his strengths in one novel (while White Jazz is the peak artistically, with its telegraphic style). I enjoyed all the novels until American Tabloid. The early, short ones crackle with energy.
Thanks, Jason. The Big Nowhere continues to grow in my estimation. It was a real advance from The Black Dahlia, and as you note lays out the many beats he will explore across the rest of his career.
Have you read Perfidia and This Storm? Curious to learn your thoughts on those. I hope you’re well!
Cheers, Jack