I just finally picked up my 4th axis CNC machining center . I have never run anything that had a 4th axis but I'm ready to learn :) my father is a master machinist of 45 plus years and I'm learning from him so I'm in good hands and I must say I am looking forward to every minute of the time I spend as my dads apprentice. Thanks for your awesome vids buddy keep up the great work
Hi John, Im from Malaysia and I thank god I found your vids here sharing knowledge. I'll be using it as i will start my new career as Manufacturing Eng using 5axis as well I need alot of info on basic machining Cnc. Thank you again. Hope to see your vids more.
Just FYI, you should use non-detergent 30W oil for the table. Motor oil has additives that emulsify and hold water in suspension, which can cause corrosion inside a machine tool. Compressor oil is often 30W and should be acceptable for this use as well.
It's even a little worse than that. Detergent oil actually causes all of the fine dirt and metal wearings to float about freely in the oil making the oil abrasive (think waterjet!) It's designed to do this so that it can be removed with a filter. Non-detergent oil allows everything to settle to the bottom, out of harms way. Rule of thumb, if it has a filter, use detergent oil.
Hey man you are the most clear understandable TH-camer I've seen i bought a cnc router w/4th axis from the chinesium genre lol but my prob is I don't have a clue bout anything about cad cam I'm in my bedroom on my dresser with laptop windows 10 I ain't really artistic at all more mechanical any suggestions on where how who what to get started would be amazing i do have machine shop experience running parts and low end work
I am looking forward to seeing how you adjust the feed rate on the 4th axis. I have built one and have had a difficult time setting the feed rate for the axis. There are some settings in mach3 that I am not suse about. Thanks for the wonderful videos! They have been helpfull. Not only the machining videos but the arduino videos.
No havent got one yet I wish haha. Just have to wall space with all the cars and other stuff there, , how do you find solid works to work with and expensive to purchase?
I was looking forward to this, I think you teased a few times about the 4th axis - pretty cool for a relatively inexpensive solution. Looking forward to hear about rigidity (and if there are any issues with it) - seems like a nice quality rotary table, better than the average chinese made. Are you supposed to snug the locking screws at all when machining or leave them loose, any issues with the "play" in the table with that? The other thing with the super spacer you mentioned - i think works better if you machine long shafts with the thru bore allowing for a close to the chuck fit.
Congrats on getting the 4th axis up and going. You do a good job of tee'ing up videos like this that are geared toward soemone who may purchase one of these in the future, and a quick youtube search, and bam, here is a 3 part series on how to set one up. Always good to find something like that on any new additon to any shop. Looking forward to parts 2 and 3!
NYC CNC I have been subscribed for a while, lurking, have gone back and watched alot of your videos. I have been making youtube videos for a few years, mostly automotive related, recently bought a grizzly mill/drill and going to conver to CNC, so just kind of learning and watching for now, keel the videos coming!
NYC CNC Thanks for the sub John. Yea, the Tig has been alot of fun, I saw you picked one up also. I showed my very first attempts at tig welding a few months back, and made alot of progress with, and now I tig weld almost everything even though Mig would be just fine. Here is my latest weld. fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1966819_10205342076258547_4107140332723238060_n.jpg?oh=f9c61d40569e22f0aad0c7daf3e0e14b&oe=54E86CA6&__gda__=1425139359_e28bb389a54d5dade6aeeabbfbbcaf03 Looking forward to Part 3 of the 4th axis tonight.
NYC CNC Nah, it's a 200amp Eastwood machine, $799 on sale, lol. The tubing is only 1/8th wall, so amperage was on 120, so using some of Jody's "thick to thin" techniques...
Great videos, NYC here also!!! Ever think about outside threading on a 4th axis? I'm looking to consolidate the shop, and using the mill for lathe operations. I was thinking about a milling bit with a 60* tip for threading...
I'm thinking about a $300 CNC 4th axis upgrade to my LinuxCNC milling machine. I have an upcoming project that will use a 4th axis on the mill after turning a part on the lathe, hopefully this winter, if I stop watching TH-cam videos and get some shop mojo. Ha ha. Tormach made you use the correct blue colored wire for low voltage DC. :-) I had already watched the TacticalKeyChains video on his new 4th axis today, and I find it interesting that you two guys have such radically different styles.
That sounds good! My grandfather was a gunsmith/machinist witch is why I got into it.. As for gears I would like to see a worm gear and a strait tooth gear cut just for the fun of seeing how well the unit can index between teeth on a strait tooth gear.. I could think of so many things to use the 4th for its awesome! 👍
The years just fly by once your married and start having kids lol.. I'll definitely be looking for some cool 4th axis video's.. I is hi could afford a CNC mill like the 1100 but it's not in the budget for a long while. :/
Machining oil grooves in pins seems like a perfect use for this. Found this video when I thought of that and assume it is CNC using something similar. Machining oil grooves in large hinge pin
John, Definitely being able to say "Yeah, I can do that!" is the key to adding any new capability. Less customers you have to turn away. I hate having to turn customers away. Its ok we won't tell wifey. lol
What positions do you work off on the 4th axis? Do you find the centre of the chuck and work from that like a lathe or just touch off on the edges of the bar like you do in a vise?
You would think they would position the sight glass so that the oil level would be mid-way in BOTH orientations. I mean it's so close to where it would need to be...
Hey John thank you for this. You are just awesome. This is why I buy the amazon links when I have the cash. Gonna get the haimer 3d next. I know I asked before but can I impose on the deflection from overhang when working on the right side of table? and do you plan on leaving it on all the time or are there concerns about the extra mass/momentum causing early wear?
NYC CNC I just want to know if my tormach is off its already out of warranty so its just for me. I placed the noga on the spindle and run the table from far left to far right it stays nearly flat the whole way except 4-5 inches from the right limit i get a sudden swoop upto 0.005 which I think is due to the overhang of motor and fouth axis, I wish I would have gotten the one for the right side but they did not offer it back then. I realize its an imposition so if you cant do it im ok.
What are some highly recommended 4th Axis rotary CAM softwares or CAD/CAM softwares that can allow me to carve fully three dimensional objects on my machine? Such as boot figured made of wood, or wooden viking longboats?
Hi John, I just subscribed to your channel as I see a lot of common interests. I look forward to following you on a regular basis. I bought the PCNC 770 with the 6" 4th axis three years ago. I haven't used the 4th axis much yet but one concern that I have is there is no seal between the rotary table and the base. while the oil loss is not a big problem, coolant runs into the interior of the table requiring draining and cleaning. Any thoughts on this?
NYC CNC One thought was to modify the base or table to put in an O ring groove but this would be a major project. I tried running a high viscosity lubricant in the table to no avail. The mist cooling system would cut down contamination although a rather expensive solution. Given that the lubricating oil flows freely from your 8" table, I expect that you will have similar concerns.
John, thanks for letting "ride along" up the learning curve with you. It's very helpful to see the mistakes and problem solving steps. Maybe Tormach will watch too, and learn where the manuals need a bit of editing. I've looked at CNC routers...I'd build one if I had the space for it here...and considered how to add 4th axis support. Seemed like it might be possible to just get a rotary table, replace the handle with a stepper, do the CAD/CAM work as if it was flat with the Y axis set to the circumference of the part, and connect the stepper to the Y axis controller when using the 4th axis. Is that viable, or am I overlooking something? -- Mike
Not so much to save space as to get a 4th axis without special software, and perhaps a bit cheaper by saving on a 4th controller. There would be a normal Y axis flat table for flat work, and when needing to do cylindrical work, you mount the rotary table and swap the cable (or turn a multi-pole switch) and connect the Y axis controller to the rotary table stepper. From the software standpoint you are basically wrapping the Y axis around the work...it thinks it's moving back and forth, but because of the rotary table, it's actually going round and round. Same distance either way. The only limitation I can see is that you can't move back and forth when set up for Y-rotary, and can't rotate when set up for flat-Y. I can't think of a time when I'd want to do both at the same time. That's how I'm seeing it, but there may well be something I'm overlooking. Just thought of one possibility: different backlash between the rotary table and the flat table Y. That would have to be changed in the "conversion". BTW - there's non-acetone nail polish remover. -- Mike
7:00 LOL You and me both brother! Everytime the wife catches me with acetone i get a ration of crap. How come she can't use it, but I'm allowed to have a gallon of it out in the garage? ahh man. The struggles we face.
NYC CNC I swear the nail polish removers have some added scent, or maybe its just the lack of fresh air in the house. I can't deal with acetone in the house at all!
Hi! first of all congratulations for the channel, I follow you for a while! I am going to mount a 4 axis cnc on my small (very small XD), I wondered if fusion360 could do this type of work! Thanks for your time!
John , Why not just just get a phase 8 inch rotary table and add stepper motor ? This what I did . Well I know tormach sponsors you so maybe you get a kick back but for the guy in his garage I just cant see why going through tormach for the price difference would be that much more significant. Its a really big price jump. I happen to even run the same drivers (company) as the tormach . Leadshine drives I personally love them . I run all their digital drives . Its great learning fourth axis . I have some timing pulley software cad cam to gcode I can point you to the makers site if ya ever need it. 12 bucks or something . I use it all the time.
NYC CNC I hear ya, I feel its why I got into machining like most of us. We had a part that we felt we could do the same or better than the guy down the street. So now when I see anything automated or made of metal I start adding up my time vs there cost. I build parts. I dont drive to far in depth with building machines . BUT. Im on my fourth CNC as of now going from my G0704 to a G3102 (6x26 knee mill) with the knee as my Z axis. Ill pm you with the timing pulley info.
well your machine is a few years old and they designed the tormach ahead of its time E.g. 2 expansion slots on the side and the space for another stepper driver inside, i was thinking of laser cutters when i said piggy backing meaning stealing power or the driving ability of one driver to power 2 steppers :s
Love revisiting these old videos 🤍
I just finally picked up my 4th axis CNC machining center . I have never run anything that had a 4th axis but I'm ready to learn :) my father is a master machinist of 45 plus years and I'm learning from him so I'm in good hands and I must say I am looking forward to every minute of the time I spend as my dads apprentice. Thanks for your awesome vids buddy keep up the great work
@7:10 You'll get better gas milage out of your 4th axis during the winter if you switch to a 5W oil.
Another nice addition to the machine shop
Hi John, Im from Malaysia and I thank god I found your vids here sharing knowledge. I'll be using it as i will start my new career as Manufacturing Eng using 5axis as well I need alot of info on basic machining Cnc. Thank you again. Hope to see your vids more.
Thanks John. Hope to learn more.
Very Cool. I'm like you I didn't buy the 4th axis when I bought my machine but I love watching those things and would love to have one some day.
This is exciting, I hope the rest comes fast!
Awesome John! Can't wait to see the things you can dream up now
Just FYI, you should use non-detergent 30W oil for the table. Motor oil has additives that emulsify and hold water in suspension, which can cause corrosion inside a machine tool. Compressor oil is often 30W and should be acceptable for this use as well.
It's even a little worse than that. Detergent oil actually causes all of the fine dirt and metal wearings to float about freely in the oil making the oil abrasive (think waterjet!) It's designed to do this so that it can be removed with a filter. Non-detergent oil allows everything to settle to the bottom, out of harms way. Rule of thumb, if it has a filter, use detergent oil.
Hey man you are the most clear understandable TH-camer I've seen i bought a cnc router w/4th axis from the chinesium genre lol but my prob is I don't have a clue bout anything about cad cam I'm in my bedroom on my dresser with laptop windows 10 I ain't really artistic at all more mechanical any suggestions on where how who what to get started would be amazing i do have machine shop experience running parts and low end work
Great job on the 4th.
I think you should do a series on Sprutcam.
from start to finish.
I am looking forward to seeing how you adjust the feed rate on the 4th axis. I have built one and have had a difficult time setting the feed rate for the axis. There are some settings in mach3 that I am not suse about.
Thanks for the wonderful videos! They have been helpfull. Not only the machining videos but the arduino videos.
Love your enthusiasm, love these tutorial-types. More of em!
Looks pretty cool, and the price is good, looking at getting a setup at my place now., just got to find the room to put one
No havent got one yet I wish haha. Just have to wall space with all the cars and other stuff there, , how do you find solid works to work with and expensive to purchase?
thanks for all of the videos John! Just want I needed!
awesome, looking forward to the rest of this series.
I was looking forward to this, I think you teased a few times about the 4th axis - pretty cool for a relatively inexpensive solution. Looking forward to hear about rigidity (and if there are any issues with it) - seems like a nice quality rotary table, better than the average chinese made. Are you supposed to snug the locking screws at all when machining or leave them loose, any issues with the "play" in the table with that?
The other thing with the super spacer you mentioned - i think works better if you machine long shafts with the thru bore allowing for a close to the chuck fit.
is there a way to adjust the "gib" equivalent on this for wear? (not sure how they're built)
Congrats on getting the 4th axis up and going. You do a good job of tee'ing up videos like this that are geared toward soemone who may purchase one of these in the future, and a quick youtube search, and bam, here is a 3 part series on how to set one up. Always good to find something like that on any new additon to any shop. Looking forward to parts 2 and 3!
NYC CNC I have been subscribed for a while, lurking, have gone back and watched alot of your videos. I have been making youtube videos for a few years, mostly automotive related, recently bought a grizzly mill/drill and going to conver to CNC, so just kind of learning and watching for now, keel the videos coming!
NYC CNC Thanks for the sub John. Yea, the Tig has been alot of fun, I saw you picked one up also. I showed my very first attempts at tig welding a few months back, and made alot of progress with, and now I tig weld almost everything even though Mig would be just fine. Here is my latest weld. fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1966819_10205342076258547_4107140332723238060_n.jpg?oh=f9c61d40569e22f0aad0c7daf3e0e14b&oe=54E86CA6&__gda__=1425139359_e28bb389a54d5dade6aeeabbfbbcaf03
Looking forward to Part 3 of the 4th axis tonight.
NYC CNC Nah, it's a 200amp Eastwood machine, $799 on sale, lol. The tubing is only 1/8th wall, so amperage was on 120, so using some of Jody's "thick to thin" techniques...
Very informative video John. Looks like it's going to be a great addition to your shop. Thanks for sharing.
awesome channel do you have any videos on 3 axis mill set up by any chance?
+NYC CNC as in getting tool offsets and g54 offsets? hope Im making sense im really new in this industry lol
+NYC CNC i saw a video you did for the lathe which i thought was extremely informative i was just wondering if you had one similar but for the mill.
Great videos, NYC here also!!! Ever think about outside threading on a 4th axis? I'm looking to consolidate the shop, and using the mill for lathe operations. I was thinking about a milling bit with a 60* tip for threading...
Awesome video as always John! I can't wait to see the 4th in action.
I'm thinking about a $300 CNC 4th axis upgrade to my LinuxCNC milling machine. I have an upcoming project that will use a 4th axis on the mill after turning a part on the lathe, hopefully this winter, if I stop watching TH-cam videos and get some shop mojo.
Ha ha. Tormach made you use the correct blue colored wire for low voltage DC. :-)
I had already watched the TacticalKeyChains video on his new 4th axis today, and I find it interesting that you two guys have such radically different styles.
Very awesome John.
You do a great job of understanding not so great instructions lol.. Can't wait to see what all you come up with to use it for.👌
That sounds good! My grandfather was a gunsmith/machinist witch is why I got into it.. As for gears I would like to see a worm gear and a strait tooth gear cut just for the fun of seeing how well the unit can index between teeth on a strait tooth gear.. I could think of so many things to use the 4th for its awesome! 👍
The years just fly by once your married and start having kids lol.. I'll definitely be looking for some cool 4th axis video's.. I is hi could afford a CNC mill like the 1100 but it's not in the budget for a long while. :/
Yea it seems like yesterday he was born. Yesterday my youngest turned 3 and its like he was just born. I wish hey would stop growing so fast. Lol
I have the same wire stripers they are great !!
Excellent! This should come in handy when I get mine. When? No idea, but how cool would it be to produce handles like lionsteel tispine?
NYC CNC Yeah that's one solid piece of titanium. I wouldn't mind a tombstone setup either.
NYC CNC Haha, yeah, I wouldn't be too upset to have one
Machining oil grooves in pins seems like a perfect use for this. Found this video when I thought of that and assume it is CNC using something similar.
Machining oil grooves in large hinge pin
John,
Definitely being able to say "Yeah, I can do that!" is the key to adding any new capability. Less customers you have to turn away. I hate having to turn customers away. Its ok we won't tell wifey. lol
What positions do you work off on the 4th axis? Do you find the centre of the chuck and work from that like a lathe or just touch off on the edges of the bar like you do in a vise?
These are awesome videos. Thank you.
You would think they would position the sight glass so that the oil level would be mid-way in BOTH orientations. I mean it's so close to where it would need to be...
thank you , im really finding these vids helpfull . you are the DUDE !
Hey John thank you for this. You are just awesome. This is why I buy the amazon links when I have the cash. Gonna get the haimer 3d next. I know I asked before but can I impose on the deflection from overhang when working on the right side of table? and do you plan on leaving it on all the time or are there concerns about the extra mass/momentum causing early wear?
NYC CNC I just want to know if my tormach is off its already out of warranty so its just for me. I placed the noga on the spindle and run the table from far left to far right it stays nearly flat the whole way except 4-5 inches from the right limit i get a sudden swoop upto 0.005 which I think is due to the overhang of motor and fouth axis, I wish I would have gotten the one for the right side but they did not offer it back then. I realize its an imposition so if you cant do it im ok.
Henderson Rosales
My PCNC 770 has about .0035 at the far right. Lifting on the x axis motor will bring it to zero.
What are some highly recommended 4th Axis rotary CAM softwares or CAD/CAM softwares that can allow me to carve fully three dimensional objects on my machine? Such as boot figured made of wood, or wooden viking longboats?
Hi John, I just subscribed to your channel as I see a lot of common interests. I look forward to following you on a regular basis.
I bought the PCNC 770 with the 6" 4th axis three years ago. I haven't used the 4th axis much yet but one concern that I have is there is no seal between the rotary table and the base. while the oil loss is not a big problem, coolant runs into the interior of the table requiring draining and cleaning. Any thoughts on this?
NYC CNC One thought was to modify the base or table to put in an O ring groove but this would be a major project. I tried running a high viscosity lubricant in the table to no avail. The mist cooling system would cut down contamination although a rather expensive solution. Given that the lubricating oil flows freely from your 8" table, I expect that you will have similar concerns.
Do you mill steel on your Tormach?
NYC CNC Thanks. I've been curious as to what it will handle. The spindle power seems awful low, it seems like it would struggle with harder metals.
John, thanks for letting "ride along" up the learning curve with you. It's very helpful to see the mistakes and problem solving steps. Maybe Tormach will watch too, and learn where the manuals need a bit of editing.
I've looked at CNC routers...I'd build one if I had the space for it here...and considered how to add 4th axis support. Seemed like it might be possible to just get a rotary table, replace the handle with a stepper, do the CAD/CAM work as if it was flat with the Y axis set to the circumference of the part, and connect the stepper to the Y axis controller when using the 4th axis. Is that viable, or am I overlooking something?
-- Mike
Not so much to save space as to get a 4th axis without special software, and perhaps a bit cheaper by saving on a 4th controller. There would be a normal Y axis flat table for flat work, and when needing to do cylindrical work, you mount the rotary table and swap the cable (or turn a multi-pole switch) and connect the Y axis controller to the rotary table stepper. From the software standpoint you are basically wrapping the Y axis around the work...it thinks it's moving back and forth, but because of the rotary table, it's actually going round and round. Same distance either way. The only limitation I can see is that you can't move back and forth when set up for Y-rotary, and can't rotate when set up for flat-Y. I can't think of a time when I'd want to do both at the same time.
That's how I'm seeing it, but there may well be something I'm overlooking. Just thought of one possibility: different backlash between the rotary table and the flat table Y. That would have to be changed in the "conversion".
BTW - there's non-acetone nail polish remover.
-- Mike
7:00 LOL You and me both brother! Everytime the wife catches me with acetone i get a ration of crap. How come she can't use it, but I'm allowed to have a gallon of it out in the garage? ahh man. The struggles we face.
NYC CNC I swear the nail polish removers have some added scent, or maybe its just the lack of fresh air in the house. I can't deal with acetone in the house at all!
Was there a group buy on the 4th's? You and Brad@TK have a competition going in regards to 4th installations.
I am the regional manager then!
I am going to quit then and go on your governments dole!
Hey John, this is all new to me but, it's pretty Damn cool.
hi sir can you give me powermill 4th axis post processor
Thanks for the video!
Shitty manuals/documentation is THE worst and it seems like even good manufacturers does it some times.
Nice, very informative. Regards
Hi John,
To dramatize the install, just blow a few small fire crackers and blow a little smoke, that would be in the Hollywood flavor..... Lol
Pierre
That sure looks like a Phase II rotary table with motor adapter.
It's best video though, could you some days make a video how to do 4th axis on mastercam for viewers thank you.
Hi! first of all congratulations for the channel, I follow you for a while! I am going to mount a 4 axis cnc on my small (very small XD), I wondered if fusion360 could do this type of work! Thanks for your time!
+NYC CNC Nice! i wait your video! 👍
9:35 It's Leaking! It's Leaking! It's Leaking!
John , Why not just just get a phase 8 inch rotary table and add stepper motor ? This what I did . Well I know tormach sponsors you so maybe you get a kick back but for the guy in his garage I just cant see why going through tormach for the price difference would be that much more significant. Its a really big price jump. I happen to even run the same drivers (company) as the tormach . Leadshine drives I personally love them . I run all their digital drives .
Its great learning fourth axis . I have some timing pulley software cad cam to gcode I can point you to the makers site if ya ever need it. 12 bucks or something . I use it all the time.
NYC CNC
I hear ya, I feel its why I got into machining like most of us. We had a part that we felt we could do the same or better than the guy down the street.
So now when I see anything automated or made of metal I start adding up my time vs there cost.
I build parts. I dont drive to far in depth with building machines . BUT. Im on my fourth CNC as of now going from my G0704 to a G3102 (6x26 knee mill) with the knee as my Z axis.
Ill pm you with the timing pulley info.
Awesome John, I am so jealous. :-)
Good
It's nicely designed not piggy backing a motor driver
well your machine is a few years old and they designed the tormach ahead of its time E.g. 2 expansion slots on the side and the space for another stepper driver inside, i was thinking of laser cutters when i said piggy backing meaning stealing power or the driving ability of one driver to power 2 steppers :s
Aha they knew one day they would be the best so they planned ahead, Btw love the enclosure
nice job:)
There is a lot of Force(s) going on :)
Well
Bla, bla, bla ,bla,bla... 7:30
ur cool