Back in old-school AD&D, what you're describing was typically considered a "Retainer" which most all players got after a certain level. Basically an underling. Magic-users got apprentices, Fighters got squires, etc... Basically, a persistent NPC, mostly under DM control, that would take orders from the players. You can expect the rules were dropped for technical reasons. High-level party of 6? That's 6 "DMPC" retainers they have to deal with every combat.
About to run a pathfinder game here, and I am forcing the leadership feat onto all my players when it comes level 7. It makes them to think critically on a secondary character that will supplement their first, a few months into playing it so they have a feel for the story, and also gives them a small pool of followers to flesh out. Far to low level to influence the story themselves, but a clever player will find a good use for 20-200 '100% loyal' N.P.C.'s, one that gives life to such a story. I do worry about my Kobold player though, they are going necromancer. Have you seen what a cult of low level necromancers can do?! She don't even have a clue what she is unlocking, yet....
My group had rotating DMs in a shared world so we all had DMPCs. When it was our turn to DM our characters just took a backseat for that adventure. They did their job and when called upon would do checks to offer their skills or knowledge. As you said, they would remain mostly quiet in a role-playing scenario. We all were able to do that with our characters fairly well understanding that our characters would get their moments in other people's adventures.
I had an unintentional DMPC many years ago, who wound up being an integral part of the party. This was during the 2E days with critical hit/miss charts. A brown dragon rises up out of the sand near the caravan the PCs were guarding. One of the NPC guards rolls a 10 initiative and goes first, he knocks an arrow and lets fly with a 20, a critical hit. We go to the chart and he rolls 00, "shot through eye instant death." He one shotted a dragon, I had to come up with a name more evocative than "Guard #3", Al, my name, um- Akbar, yeah Al Akbar, dragon slayer. They kept him with the party for years, as he was the finest archer in all of the land. That NPC had a strange ability to roll 20s at the right moment, I had to marry him off to a princess to get him out of the party.
I think the issue with DMPCs among the TTRPG community boils down to semantics; NPCs that become companions aren't really equal to DMPCs, as you point out. Sometimes an NPC needs to travel with the party, sometimes the NPC is stuck in the same situation and needs to fight alongside them, and this can lead to the NPCs just needing to stick around for more than a scene or session. It starts getting pretty exhausting when the NPC is there for every single situation and, as you said, diverts attention away from the players. You came up with some great ways to make sure that an "NPC" doesn't succumb to the pitfalls also associated with a "DMPC"! (also, all my would-be "DMPC"s are dead now, as of last Saturday; I hate plot armor)
Basically this. It's like the term "rules lawyer". Folks applied to everyone who knew the rules and thus it made knowing the rules seem bad in and of itself. Instead of just calling X person a jerk and calling a normal rules-knower, well, nothing in particular. It's semantics. Anything can be used for bad if handled poorly.
Our DM (who is also a current player of mine for PF2e) had a drunken dwarf caravan guard NPC that he meant to kill off at some point. We (the players) all loved the characters exaggerated Scottish accent so much that we actively took care of, interacted with and paid the NPC to accompany us for more than half of the adventure. That's the best kind of "DMPC," a beloved NPC that players don't want to leave behind.
My players are a very small number. They like me to have a character to play. It lets us have larger encounters and I know the most about the lore so I can speak in character about things to teach the players in character. I struggle with actually doing things as any of these characters, because I hate stealing the scene. I always roll especially fair for them. My players don't mind, but it's MY players, not anyone else's, so it's impossible for me to speak on it outside of my experience. I can see why people wouldn't like it
Hey, as long as your players are cool with you having a character, you’re completely fine. It’s kind of fun being able to have your own character be part of the party, right? 😃
40 year GM here: I've learned to cycle 3-5 "DMPCs" over the course of a 2-3 years campaign. Send them off after 5-10 sessions and try to bring them back after they've spent some time away. This prevents GM temptation while still giving the players and you an extra recourse. It can be great when a favorite that;s been gone a long time, shows up for the final act. I've done this as a Dios ex Machina without it being too cringe. Somehow.
Great vid! I tend to try limit my NPC's to characters the players know if they're bringing them on an adventure, but i have exceptions so ill typically just make them pre weak and while they can be story important its all to enhance the players experience lol
I played in a game with a DMPC who was the protagonist of the DMs story, we were all just along for their story. It was a pretty miserable experience. I agree with your video, as long as DMPC is more like a sidekick and the player's want them there it's ok. It's also good DMing that you gave your players multiple chances without repercussions to part ways if they wanted. I found your channel through your Skill Check video. I hope you'll do more. Regardless, I subscribed and have enjoyed all of your videos. Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to your next video!
That’s a bummer to hear about the DMPC taking the spotlight in your game, that’s definitely not how it should go. Thanks for the kind words by the way, I really appreciate it 😃
I've played in groups where it worked. One group was cycling DMs per adventure, so the DM would continue to play the own PC. Some struggled more than others to put their character more in the background, but it was never a real fail. I design characters that are meant as "sidekicks" for the party and that could be interpreted as DMPC's, but usually give them personalities that make it natural for them to rely on the normal PCs to call the decisions. Like that warforged butler, who is so used to obeying the wishes of his masters that he actually has a hard time deciding for himself.
From person experience, I believe that they are SOMETIMES a necessary too. One that I have had to use semi-frequently. The reason I've had to do this is simple. Small groups of inexperienced players. BOTH factors are important to consider in this situation. If the group was larger, I wouldn't need to use a DMPC. If the group had been more experienced, I wouldn't have needed to use a DMPC. But with BOTH factors I needed to throw a DPMC into the group just to keep them alive.
So glad you said agency at around 11:05. Once you said that the players invested literally and figuratively into Ryke (spelling? sorry!), they took their agency and ran away with a cool plotline and narrative. At the end of the day it's the table's story, and when they throw their narrative weight into something it's truly wonderful. It's so important to remember while you are crafting a story for them to engage in, at the end of the day if they find the unexpected threads most interesting that's your collective story. Backstory hooks with players, interesting narrative choices, a way for them to get out any time, and a well telegraphed end to the character are all important, too. But we can all agree that an undead into baked goods is way, way too cool to let get away from a party so you were doomed from the start! Like you said elsewhere, all that matters is that you and your players are having fun so nothing left to do but get out of the way of a good time!
Couldn’t have said it better myself 👏🏻 I’m also very honoured that you think my NPC is cool haha, thanks mate! P.S. looking forward to the next ep of Skill Check, ep. 2 was great!
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Well absolutely, love a character with an interesting story and an endearing quirk. Wondering what his favorite baked good is? 🤔 Also, you're too kind and glad to hear we settled a bit!
Haha it’s funny because the baked goods thing was just a side gag at first. I had the players do a heist to earn Rike’s trust, and the “super important” box they stole from a (very dangerous) noble ended up being some rare iced buns for him to eat 😂 I made it that he can only taste super sugary things, due to being undead. Now the players are always giving him sweets they find, very wholesome
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam that's so perfect, I actually had a heated debate today about HOW a skeleton would eat like a donut prompted entirely by this. Does he chew?!
Ahh, I luckily had the forethought to say he was more zombie than skeleton, and whatever necromancy was used let him keep at least enough of the internal parts for eating and chewing, like a tongue 😂 He definitely doesn’t NEED to eat, but who wouldn’t miss the taste of sugary pastries haha. Luckily none of my players grilled me too much about the logistics of it
I've had a pretty good experience as a player with the dungeon master having a dmpc for a significant portion of the campaign. He was far from overbearing or edgy, just a simple ranger type who helped us out of altruism. When he died for a plot device it may have been a little bit telegraphed and cliche feeling but it still had the desired effect of spurring on our characters
I had no idea there was a name for it. I had one when I took over a campaign when a DM quit, and I kept my PC from when I was a player in the mix just to keep things balanced. He was a character that was good at figuring out puzzles and legitimately figured out some puzzles when I played him as a PC. During his time as a DMPC, the other players turned to him for insight into how to solve a puzzle. Otherwise he just faded into the background until a fight happened. I deliberately made sure he never got any glory unless the players looked to him for help or were about to miss something cool entirely, but even then I'd let them get as much of the action as possible. And I made it clear that if they ever wished, they could just ask me and he'd fade permanently into the background and we'd pretend he was never there. It worked out well, they never had a problem with it, they actually seemed to appreciate him. That was my first time DMing too. I'm thinking of having more characters like that in my next campaign, though I think I'll incorporate some of your ideas here. I like the idea of the party hiring the DMPC, and thus having a canonical reason for players to make his choices for him, and also a reason for him to be optional.
I love hirelings and companions, as a player and a DM. I love recruiting NPCs to the group. It makes the game feel more real when players come and go and player character are replaced as it is a roster that is always changing
Any rule has exceptions. When players like an NPC they will want them to stick around. I know, because I'm one of those players that gets attached to them all the time and always asks what they're doing and what they think and what their hopes and dreams are. I love collecting them and seeing them interact with each other like they're my precious little sims. It's great and as expected we have a lot of people in our combats and they nearly always take 2 sessions to resolve :^) This is why i really like older editions and wish I could play them more as a player, I want that classic feel and to coolect as many retainers/followers as i want.
That's a good way to run it. I accidentally ended up w/a DMPC for a time when my son decided not to play with his siblings' group, but I culled the character away about 1/3 through to hold down a fort the group had cleared with a group of Mt. Dwarves, so it wasnt an issue. I really like the idea of a Revenant following along though.
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Yeah I was fortunate that my daughter and her Easy Coast friends enjoyed having me DM for them, and my eldest son would dial in from the West Coast. We played for about a year before she went off to college - loved it. Everyone has jobs now so I don't get to play much these days. Maybe the occasional one-shot for a birthday or something.
I’m running for a very small party. This being my first 5e campaign (and my players all being new), I didn’t really have a ton of know-how for how to run a small party, so I fell back on the approach of make the party less small, and I’ve had some success using a couple of techniques. 1.) this is definitionally a DMPC. The character is a character who is with the party at all times, gets a share of any loot, the players think of him as part of the party, etc. With that said, I maintain my headspace thinking of this character as a NPC. He’s not the important one; the two PCs are. While he occasionally has moments, he tends to take a backseat to the party. 2.) the character was built last, was built to fill a hole, and was built with support in mind. His job is to make the PCs better at what they do. The party lacked a healer, so he’s a divine soul sorcerer with almost no direct damage capability. The PCs get the vast majority of the cool moments. 3.) “bless his heart it’s a good thing he’s pretty.” I made the character a complete benevolent himbo. He’s not terribly bright and knows it, trusts the PCs, and rarely makes a decision. He’s agreeable and supportive of the decisions they make. Related, with him not really knowing much (someone else has most of the knowledge skills on wrap), I’m virtually never going to be in the position of having to deliver DM directed knowledge through this character. It just wouldn’t make sense for him to know it because, well, bless his heart it’s a good thing he’s pretty. 4.) I minimized overlap. With the character being built last, I was able to look at skills and backgrounds taken and make sure this character wouldn’t have a chance of shining where others should. This does sometimes create some weirdness, where nobody took any social skills, so in investigations the sorcerer with the noble background likely should be taking the lead. In these scenarios, I often let the players do the RP and roll with the sorcerer’s bonus, or he’ll break off to go have a conversation they aren’t interested in/equipped to have/available to have, while the PCs go do some other critical task. I tend to just roll a skill check or two for these and let that guide how much information he shows back up with. It *can* be done, but most of the advice given is don’t for a reason. I’ve found a path to success with my small party, and hopefully if anyone ever finds themselves in a similar situation, what I’ve written helps them do the same, but most of the time “don’t” is the best advice for how to run a DMPC.
my players often just ask a "quest giver" etc to join them on the adventure, but i never have them initiate anything during the adventure, just wait for the players to interact with them. in combat i use them if it makes sense, but if they're someone who wouldn't fight i just have them sit it out or guard their camp etc while the others fight/explore. if there are multiple retainer/mercenary-like npcs with the party, i just have the players control them in combat.
That's a great way to put it. Another trick I use that I forgot to mention in the video is I will sometimes have the NPC getting innocent people out of the danger zone while the players fight
It's cool to see the exception to the rule work out when the players are the ones creating that exception. Nice job showing examples of which stars had to align to make this happen. It's good to know a DM has this a tool, even if it's unlikely. P.S. One small request: Include your socials in your description. I went to follow you on Twitter but had to pause the video and navigate away to look it up. If it was in the description I could have clicked the hyperlink and the video would have kept playing in the Background. Just makes it that much easier for peeps :) Keep up the good work man! -David
Thanks, that's super nice of you to say! Also, that's a great bit of feedback, I can definitely get my socials put in the description going forward, sorry for the hassle
@RoguesRollCall-Cam No problem dude! I want to see your channel continue to grow cuz you make good stuff! (I was the guy who also commented earlier on your Skill Check show analysis video, this is just a different account - wanted to sub on both haha ;))
I use DMPCs when I DM for two or fewer PCs. I play a lot of duets (just me as the DM and one PC), and DMPCs will often come in and out of the story to assist when necessary, but I keep a hard rule about them not taking the spotlight, not making major decisions, etc. They’re sort of Retainer-Adjacent. The other mechanism I’ll use is a creature that functions as an animal companion but can be healed, does death saves, and has a full action economy but that action economy is fully under control of the PC. I just play the creature’s interactions if they’re addressed by the PC somehow. Another favorite is “enemy NPC adopted by the party.”
I had an experience like that in our last campaign! They had to fight a rival crew of sellswords, and ended up taking their bard as a prisoner before befriending and hiring him to be the musician for the Tavern they bought haha
I have run several games and I have played as a dmpc. They are there to fill out the group and help as sometimes a guide or to point the pcs in the right direction if they are lost. The problem is when the dm is favoring the dmpc. They should tag along and help not taking the lead away from the other characters.
I have often used DMPCs I had tons of charts to detail encounters, treasures, terrain, etc so even I didn’t know what to expect. My games are pretty much player run sandbox and I just fill in the details as I rolled them up
the main DMPCS i give are closer to Sidekicks, Retainers, Henchmen or Cohorts. where parties had entire armies of them in old school D&D. a PC with 8-12 Charisma had 4 Cohorts, a PC with 13 Charisma had 5 Cohorts, a PC with 18 Charisma had like 25 class leveled cohorts at a time. a single classed human fighter or thief with no kits or subclasses got to have twice as many cohorts. but at plot interverals, i'll give free cohorts that don't take a cohort slot. in Pathfinder 1e/D&D 3e,. i ban the leadership feat and instead give 1/4th of your BAB in PC classed Cohorts 2 levels below you, rounded up. minimum level 1. in 5e, i give a number of equal level sidekick classed sidekicks equal to a PC's Proficiency bonus. with NPCs less than CR 1/2 being beefed up to CR 1/2. generally using a scout with a race choice as the baseline for balance. because i know the best CR 1/2 5e NPC to turn into a sidekick is the Scout because it has 14 Dex, Multiattack, the ability to select a race choice for no CR adjustment, and can get 16 Dexterity after race choice. making it arguably the best sidekick option. because it can be an expert with multiple attacks and really good weapon options. and the Warrior doesn't get better than a baseline scout at combat until level 15 with a 3rd attack because scout gets 2 attacks by default and can easily spec into dual wielding for a 3rd attack in melee even as an expert. except you aren't taking the scout for its melee prowess. you are taking it because you need a sneaky perceptive forager who is good with a bow, able to do recon, and is arguably a better ranger than most rangers because it doesn't cost a PC slot and is good enough at a ranger's job despite that. and sure, Ranger might be more powerful, but ranger eats a PC slot, Scout eats a Sidekick slot. and Scouts are still good melee flankers being generally fast as heck and faster as experts.
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam effectively, scout expert sidekicks, in 5e, are the poor man's better ranger. not because they got the numbers, but because they are cheap.
My DMPCs are always squires, servants, apprentices, guides, etc. They're usually NPCs that the PCs can order around and command. It really depends on your group. New players might be relieved to have a DMPC, while veterans might look for the first opportunity to make him fall into an unfortunate accident. Either way, as long as the group is having fun and your NPC isn't railroading or meta-gaming for the PCs, it's all good.
I haven't use one persay but I have used awesome mentor type NPCs that show up from time to time just to give my players direction when they need it in a sandbox game... But what I have done is write a 1000 year scifi setting that practly orbits my self insert who is supposed to be my hero someone I can look up to and grow IRL to become one day maybe... And yeah those are said to be impossible to write but I can because I have a whole load of teqniques to do so but it is not easy and mainly depends on him being well likled by the readers... Which I think holds true with DMPCs to if you want to play a PC you can it's a copertive game after all you just have to treat them as if they were played by another non DM. Also remember the DM is a player too after all and you get to have many DMPCs and most even engang in PVP! aka in a TTRPG an NPC is a DMPC because they are not AI/bots/computer controller characters... So in D&D if you had an enemy party with normal character sheets those whould be DMPC 100%... But yeah in the context of this video I see nothing wrong with the GM having a DMPC as long as they are not toxic with them.
I'm super new to D&D but I agree that DMPCs could certainly have a temporary role in a campaign. For example if one of the players of an established campaign needs to cancel their attendance to a few game nights it might be easier for his character to become DM-played for a while instead of killing them off and create a new character upon their return (but I've only seen this strategy used as a last resort, and only in case none of the players wanted to temporarily take on an extra role). Even though I've never dm'd before, I feel like using DMPCs is in general super tricky but also I can't immagine a scenario in which they would be fun to play for the dm: if the dm has full control over the DMPC's actions then those actions are bound to be biased by dm knowledge, which for the dm would be no more fun than interpreting an NPC, plus it would make it difficult not to spoil the game or herd the players (at least it would be nearly impossible for me XD); on the other hand, rolling dice to control the DMPC's actions would at least introduce some unpredictability for the DM too, but then I wouldn't see much sense in creating a character I can't control when I already have uncontrollable people sitting at the table. Personally I know when I'll start dm'ing I won't use DMPCs, but I would never outlaw them. I do love a creative use of NPCs though! I'm curious to hear how your first D&D game ever went :) Mine was pure chaotic fun XD
Very well said, and I'd be keen to hear how DMing goes for you, when you give it a try. I will definitely make a video at some point about how the first game went (if I can dig through my bad memory for it, that is 😂)
I really love “DMPCs” both as a player and as a DM (I’ve not ever used one during a full campaign but I’ve had one accompany players on one shots) there’s a DMPC in a campaign I’m a player in right now and she’s honestly one of my fav NPCs lmao Obviously they can be mishandled though so one has to be careful
Had an NPC at the start of a spelljammer campaign to set up some story and die shortly after due to various injuries he sustained. Party ended up spending a lot of their resources to save him and he ended up joining the early boss fight. After that I had planned for him to basically stay on the party's ship with the justification that he was missing a leg and thus couldn't really fight. The party then ended up spending some time to make him a replacement leg and started dragging him along with them. They paid him wages for working with the crew, and he's been pulled into a romantic relationship with one of the PCs and a sibling-esque rivalry with another where the two constantly try to one-up each other with pranks. I've ran him as a much lower level character than the party (He's a level 3 fighter while the party is level 7) with a few extra hitpoints for survivability. I also have one of the players (The party's captain) control him in combat. He doesn't comment in most situations except when there's an extended silence or unless someone talks to him first. The party's collected a handful of additional npc companions as well including two sentient magic items and (as of the most recent session) two artificers who are meant as a means for the party to have easy access to a store to upgrade their ship. Also got another campaign where I built a system for temporary companions as the party is a far more established group starting-off and know a lot of people. And one of the PCs is an actual knight with a squire. In that campaign you can call on one of your companions to help you in one combat once per long rest (It's a gritty realism campaign so lr is 7 days). I ran the companions myself the first time they showed up in the first big fight of the campaign and plan to move them off to the players their connected to's control after that. I had considered using this system as well (But changing out LR for 7 days) for my spelljammer campaign but haven't fully decided if I want to or not yet.
DMPCs are completely fine. Except when they aren’t. Bottom line - a PC can only be made as powerful as the rules and the DM allows. A DMPC can only be made as powerful as the DM allows. I had a conversation in comments with a DM defending their use of DMPC as totally normal. I asked what the species of their DMPC was and the DM responded, “Demi-God.”
I think the issue is mostly execution. DMPCs aren’t inherently bad. They’re just not commented on when they’re done well, because they’re not a focal point. I had a player’s character’s brother name an appearance as a rival, which fell flat with two nat 1s in a row, followed by a divination wizard inflicting another 1; before that NPC gave up and the character who he was related to insisted on dragging him along. Good times. Could not get the pricks to let go of him
I've used DMPCs when necessary. They never give advice, never take the lead, never participate in planning discussions. They're essentially hireling I use to fill out a party when I don't have enough players for a balanced game.
I had a similar experience and I don’t think anyone needs to feel bad about creating a lovable NPC. I feel like they’re more of a team mascott than a DMPC.
I think the key to playing dmpcs is twofold: 1.) Be okay with them being changed/ affected/ or killed by the party. 2.) Dont let them take the spotlight without player approval. The biggest issues ive seen with dmpcs is that dms try to use them to direct the players and be a "leader" or "superior" to the players. Dmpcs should largely be support to what the players do.
Im playing my 2nd time with a 2nd group through the tomb of anihalation. In Toa a big thing at the start is getting a guide, both my groups went with Azaka, she is a weretiger girl thats fierce , she is there to just be a guide , and while with 1st group that was it. In this 2nd group one of the players after finding out about her weretiger curse, got a 21 persuasion after explaining his story to get her to turn him too. Obv the stats on weretiger is too mch so i made it has he couldnt control himself at first and few other downsides like exhaustion after turning etc . Well so he would ask azaka to help him get in control. Its also where he multiclassed barbarian. So he would rage and turn. Azaka and that player became close. And being a 3 party group. With that players char and azaka developing a relationship. She ended up entering the tomb with the party Now we are close to the end. I havent had her solve anything . The magic items she has the party has given to her because she became quite underpowered as she doesnt level up. She mainly talks when asked. She is there from mostly day 1. It made no sense for her to leave in the story and going into the tomb with 3 players is harsh. So she is still there, being a mostly quiet but essential part to the group after so long.
Now from this coment it might seem that one player is quite favoured, which he does have alot shit happen to him , but it was never by design. And other players had their own shit. It just didnt involve a npc 😂
You want to know something kinda funny, you're not the first person in the comments of this video who had the ToA weretiger get convinced to join the player's party 😂 It seems players just can't resist, it's awesome
I DM’d a game and left a random member of a religious organization to pass a message with no plans for him beyond that. My players had a lengthy conversation with multiple persuasion checks and convinced him to join for a regular fee. I made the fee (what I felt) was absurdly high for his skill, but they agreed with no haggling whatsoever. After months together of them jumping through hoops to make sure he almost never went down, they convinced him to join full time as a member earning his fair share of the loot.
If I was playing with a DM that had a DMPC that they were attached to and wanted to tag along, I wouldn't mind if they took up the spotlight every now and then so long as said DM was equally if not more attentive to the backstories and character moments of each of the player characters in their party. Like, simply letting the guy who's putting in the most work to make the session bring their own player character into the mix isn't a problem from my perspective so long as they're not dominating the field of play through a godmodded character or anything stupid like that. I've never DMed for DnD before, however I have done a lot of cooperative creative writing and other sorts of make believe involving more than one person at a time before- it tends to end up with the people who have ideas for stories to tell within the shared space taking the lead and directing the play until someone else has something to yes-and with or take control as the 'dm' for a bit. It's just a matter of being courteous and making sure everyone is cool with what's going on rather than a hard and fast rule imo, but I understand why a lot of people would see anything looking like a DMPC as an immediate red flag when they're not already playing with a friend group who knows how to share spotlight and be a good sport about the whole thing.
See to me what you're describing isn't a DMPC, because the defining feature of the DMPC is that the DM plays the DMPC as "their PC" in the campaign, involving them far too much in the determination of what happens. I think long running companion NPCs, which is how I'd describe the character in your game, also need very careful handling and you give excellent advice on how to do that. It comes down to semantics in the end.
that's nice of you to say, thanks so much. You're right, for the most part like most things in D&D, it's all just subjective semantics (but it can still be fun to chat about anyway 😂) thanks for watching :)
I think there is a key difference between your tale and most horror stories you hear about them: They were nothing characters they wanted to learn more from and wanted to keep. Most of the time when the DMPC is dropped, they are given this massive role with a high ego and higher knowledge the DM does not dare part away from knowing because he also makes the encounters and puzzles. So for me, making a DMPC needs several rules 1. The players should WANT them. If they are being tacked on against their will, then that goes against the players will. 2. Their roles should be minor. This is their adventure. All they are is an extra hand that can help where asked. 3. They should know about as much as the players. This is the biggest challenge as the DM needs to keep note on what they learn, and what is being asked of them. What point is a valve pressure puzzle if the character already knows it like the back of their hand? Sure, they can know more (its probably why they hired them in the first place), but they should have their own spots of lacked talent/knowledge.
Some really great points, especially number 3. I wish I'd talked in the video about the factor of the DM separating what they know, from what the NPC should know, but maybe next time 😂 Thanks for watching!
GMPCs are tools and like all tools, can be used for good or ill. The main reason GMPCs have so much of a bad rep is because they're often sued for the wrong reasons and/or executed poorly. I used GMPCs when I started GMing because the GM I'd learned the game from did so and as a player, I hadn't found them problematic. Becasue of this, it was only much later that I learned they weren't standard practice, never mind that there was an actual term for them. All of the hate for them confused me a lot until I discovered RPG horror stories and discovered that some GMs used them to railroad PCs or to be the Main Character of the story that were supposed to be have the Player Characters in the starring roles. Then I discovered GMs who were so concerned with avoiding that, that they instead hobbled any NPC that travelled with the party, sometimes to the extent of creating a whole new problem: A Millstone NPC. Someone the party has to protect because they're 'Plot Important' but is useless in combat and often annoying both in and out of it. Meanwhile, I started GMing without them, as The Internet had told me DMPCs Are Bad. Then I ended up running a game with only two PCs and they got into a mess because neither had any healing ability (this wasn't 5E so no miracle sleeping). I put in an NPC who could heal, and she was to stay with them for long enough for them to reach their destination settlement. They got there and she was all "Well, it's been nice meeting you; I'll be off now..." and the PCs both turned around and vigorously protested the idea of her leaving. I actually stepped out of character to check OOC whether they actually wanted her to stay around and they insisted they did. As with Rike, I have always made sure my players know they don't have to keep NPCs around but every game, they adopt at least one; far from me forcing an NPC on the PCs, it's more like they won't actually let them leave (Not literally; they've haven't actually kidnapped anyone yet). I've never had an NPC make any sort of final decisions, although obviously, I'll have them offer opinions, which I've also been at pains to make sure my players know is the NPC's opinion only and may or may not be the best course of action. They have personalities and backstories because they are, above all, people and heck, people talk to each other about stuff. An NPC with no personality might as well just be an item and if anyone wants to put in an NPC but doesn't want the trouble of roleplaying them, just actually provide an item instead. There is also the fact that having an NPC in the party when they go up against a powerful enemy means you can target them with any effects that would put the target out of action. Beign taken out of a fight, especially early on, sucks for players but targeting the NPC can let you showcase the power without doing that- at least, the first time. It means the PCs know what they're up against and that next time, it could - or will - be one of them and will incentivise them to take down the enemy so as to avoid being next. This can also be handy if someone needs to be 'damselled' in another fashion at some point.
imo the only time the DMPC label is justified is when a DM is using an NPC in the party as their own pc, or using one that's OP just to dominate the action, rather than, as you suggest, as a part of the story. I started in the 80's, and we frequently had NPC's in the party, if only to beef us up, because we always had few players, and even playing 2 characters each, as we often did, that extra body helped. It was always acceptable as long as the NPC was reasonably equal in level to the party and the DM wasn't giving them any special advantages. But we never bothered with henchmen, hirelings, followers, and the like either.
That's completely fair. I only just learned recently from someone in the comments that the older editions of D&D included a lot more companion NPCs, which is really cool to know
As a dungeon master, who uses a lot of DM PCs, due to certain players in my group, not being able to show up, players, wanting to build characters that don’t balance well as a party, and just wanting to be more involved in the game. I have realized that if you want to create a DM PC, there are a few rules that you should abide by. 1. The DMP should never be the star of the show. Most of my DM PCs are humorous characters that are not meant to be taken seriously. I don’t base any of the plot around them, and I don’t make them the focal point of the story. My players are the focal point of the story. 2. The DMC does not step on any of the player characters toes. When I build these characters, I always make it a point for them to fill a role that is missing because I think it is important, or the players just didn’t want to fill that part in the party. That way people can play the characters they want without me constantly obsessing over party balance, and group cohesion. 3. If possible, the DMP should be a support character. That usually just happens to me naturally, and this is more of a suggestion than a rule. I just happened to notice that when I would play a damage dealer like a paladin who had some support features other players would get annoyed if I didn’t use my lay on hands to heal them. I think they felt that my character doing a bunch of the damage kind of took a bit of the fun from them. So I mostly focus on Druids, clerics, and wizards as DM PCs. 4. Never make the DMC the party face. This is mainly because of the fact that you’re already trying to manage the world. If you’re going to use a DM PC, you should make sure that it’s a character that you don’t have to think too heavily about. Clerics, Druids and wizards are OK because those just make good villains anyway. You should probably get well acquainted with their spellcasting class and how to use it.but if you have to role-play a charisma character, that’s just a bit too much. 5. Make sure to check in with your players to make sure they’re having fun. You should honestly do this whether you’re using a DMC or not. But it’s still good advice to give people. I would like to apologize about the bad grammar. Having to rely on Siri dictation due to being legally blind sucks. Anyway, I hope this was useful for somebody.
Whether a DMPC is good for the group very much depends on the DM’s style. I’ve been in games where the DM suffered main character syndrome and we ended up listening to hour long monologues or wondering why we had to deal with a problem that the DMPC could have handled while blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back. I swore I would never use a DMPC after that. Now I GM online most groups have a DMPC in them, with some basic rules attached. I never allow myself to be attached to th DMPC, that way if any thing happens or the players want them gone, it doesn’t bother me. They are never better than the lowest level character in the party, and always last in line for any magic items. They tend to be hybrid characters that can fill in for any character whose player can’t make a session. It means they really aren’t good at anything but can manage to do whatever is needed, albeit not as well as the PC could have done. The players never have to worry about who is going to hang back and look after the horses when they charge off into combat, or who is going to have one hand full holding a lantern while exploring a dungeon, the DMPC can do it. There is nothing wrong with having a DMPC but they should NEVER be the star of the show.
DMPCs are fine as long as players are the main characters. As long as they can die just like anyone else, their power inflation is less than or equal to the Party, and magic items are not being custom made for this character.
I ran Tomb of Annihilation a while ago, and part of the beginning of that campaign is hiring a guide to take you through the jungle. The players chose one willing to work for a favor instead of pay. It turned out she was a weretiger, and the party ended up just being very accepting of that fact, and friendly toward her. When she eventually left the party because they were going into an area she considered much too dangerous to enter, herself, one of the party members was upset. They’d gotten close enough with her that he felt like he was being abandoned by a friend. So, I’d definitely say DMPCs/Companion NPCs/whatever can be a great addition to a team without being disruptive. And, frankly, I think an interesting campaign could begin with a ‘disruptive’ main character NPC that ends up becoming the campaign villain.
Like a lot of DM Advice a lot of it is kinda... subjective? Like for the most part it doesnt work.... but It can work. It really comes down to everyone at the table.
I honestly have seen DMPCs done so badly in games i have played in that those four letters are the biggest red flag to me. If the DMPC is basicly a party member that the party has no choice but working with. If the DM is both Party Member and DM i have seen them purposefully overshadow a character. The situation i experiences was the DM would constantly insert their DMPC into my backstories which would then have to be rewritten to accommodate their character cuz i am a people pleaser, and was always substantially more powerful vs the power as well they would get homebrew subclasses while we stuck with standard. In my own homebrew world - i refuse to use DMPCs because i legit had my story and character stolen by the DM.
If you can not 'control the story' with a world full of N.P.C.'s at your disposal: What is one 'more persistent' NPC really going to do? That there is my real gripe with the concept of a Dungeon Master Character, for you don't require them to make the story function. Fill the roll out with lesser N.P.C.'s that you can switch out as needed, for those are your 'characters' to play with. The group will find it far more enjoyable if they are not being dragged around by one major character, and when you find out which N.P.C.'s the party resonates with... put those N.P.C.'s into threat. I wonder if D.M.P.C.'s are vestigial, as most storytellers had once been players.
A lot of online discourse about DnD comes down to people exaggerating other people's bad experiences and drawing their opinions from that. Or just repeating what they hear without thinking about it. People's hate for DMPCs comes from the same place that some people's weird obsession with safety tools and infantilizing themselves and their players comes from: It's an overcompensation for someone else's bad experience (that may or may not be an exaggeration itself) from some horror story that is the exception and not the rule. And rather than approaching that potential for a negative experience rationally, they go overboard like an overactive immuno response. A bad DM will try to make their DMPC steal the spotlight. A good DM will make them a valuable interactable addition to the party and story. A midwit redditor will read r/horrorstories and decide "ALL DMPCs are bad and you should feel bad for playing them" Reality is they are just one of many tools that can be wielded well or poorly.
The character you describe isn't a DMPC. It's an NPC. DMPC's aren't LIKE the other players.... they literally ARE a player character with the same mechanics and narrative agency as the PCs.... just controlled by someone with perfect knowledge of upcoming events and the solution to every problem they can face. They might not deliberately choose to act on it.... but no matter how good a roleplayer you are, you can't not know what you know. And no matter what mental gymnastics you pull to convince yourself you're not accounting for DM knowledge.... you're doing mental gymnastics that no PC has to do.... so you're always thinking differently. Additionally, even if you have full trust from your players, any time your DMPC succeeds, there is the question of why they succeeded. Have NPCs that travel with the party. Have them be fully realized and entertaining characters. Absolutely. But the DM's job means they can never experience the game as a PC... they have to be able to see the mechanics behind the game and the PC's need to be tricked into ignoring them (I don't mean that cynically). DMPCs are ALWAYS a bad idea, and, although I know a load of other people in the comments section will rush to explain how the one DMPC they had was a really good idea it probably wasn't actually a DMPC (as in your story) and if it was it wasn't a good idea. TTRPGs at their core are about making choices and dealing with the consequences. If the person making the choices is deciding the consequences then that core vanishes. Write a novel instead.
yeah I don't disagree, I did talk in the video specifically about what I'm describing not being seen as DMPC's but rather "companion NPCs." I absolutely agree with you that separating what you know as a DM from what that NPC should know is something that can be very hard to get right, but that's what most of this video talks about, how to leave the choice agency with the players, not the NPC/DM
Yeah I'm not trying to argue or disagree with you or anything mate, was just talking about how a lot of people (even in this comment section) have different ideas of what classifies the NPC as a DMPC or not. I just like chatting about it :)
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Same here! Absolutely not a criticism. I think it's a really interesting topic, especially as it's something that returns to RPG discussion so often.
From person experience, I believe that they are SOMETIMES a necessary too. One that I have had to use semi-frequently. The reason I've had to do this is simple. Small groups of inexperienced players. BOTH factors are important to consider in this situation. If the group was larger, I wouldn't need to use a DMPC. If the group had been more experienced, I wouldn't have needed to use a DMPC. But with BOTH factors I needed to throw a DPMC into the group just to keep them alive.
Back in old-school AD&D, what you're describing was typically considered a "Retainer" which most all players got after a certain level. Basically an underling. Magic-users got apprentices, Fighters got squires, etc... Basically, a persistent NPC, mostly under DM control, that would take orders from the players. You can expect the rules were dropped for technical reasons. High-level party of 6? That's 6 "DMPC" retainers they have to deal with every combat.
Whoa, that’s really cool, I didn’t know that. Thats why I love hearing from veteran players, I always learn new things. Thanks for watching!
Oh god, or the leadership feat from 3.5. Charisma casters at level 8 were looking at 10+ followers. Level 12? 30+. Help.
About to run a pathfinder game here, and I am forcing the leadership feat onto all my players when it comes level 7. It makes them to think critically on a secondary character that will supplement their first, a few months into playing it so they have a feel for the story, and also gives them a small pool of followers to flesh out. Far to low level to influence the story themselves, but a clever player will find a good use for 20-200 '100% loyal' N.P.C.'s, one that gives life to such a story.
I do worry about my Kobold player though, they are going necromancer.
Have you seen what a cult of low level necromancers can do?!
She don't even have a clue what she is unlocking, yet....
'They should be an employee' is pretty subtle, solid advice. Neat video!
Thanks so much!
My group had rotating DMs in a shared world so we all had DMPCs. When it was our turn to DM our characters just took a backseat for that adventure. They did their job and when called upon would do checks to offer their skills or knowledge. As you said, they would remain mostly quiet in a role-playing scenario. We all were able to do that with our characters fairly well understanding that our characters would get their moments in other people's adventures.
That sounds like a great use of DMPCs! Thanks for sharing 😀
I had an unintentional DMPC many years ago, who wound up being an integral part of the party. This was during the 2E days with critical hit/miss charts. A brown dragon rises up out of the sand near the caravan the PCs were guarding. One of the NPC guards rolls a 10 initiative and goes first, he knocks an arrow and lets fly with a 20, a critical hit. We go to the chart and he rolls 00, "shot through eye instant death." He one shotted a dragon, I had to come up with a name more evocative than "Guard #3", Al, my name, um- Akbar, yeah Al Akbar, dragon slayer. They kept him with the party for years, as he was the finest archer in all of the land. That NPC had a strange ability to roll 20s at the right moment, I had to marry him off to a princess to get him out of the party.
hahaha wow, sounds like that guard might have been overqualified for the guarding job 😂
I think the issue with DMPCs among the TTRPG community boils down to semantics; NPCs that become companions aren't really equal to DMPCs, as you point out. Sometimes an NPC needs to travel with the party, sometimes the NPC is stuck in the same situation and needs to fight alongside them, and this can lead to the NPCs just needing to stick around for more than a scene or session.
It starts getting pretty exhausting when the NPC is there for every single situation and, as you said, diverts attention away from the players. You came up with some great ways to make sure that an "NPC" doesn't succumb to the pitfalls also associated with a "DMPC"!
(also, all my would-be "DMPC"s are dead now, as of last Saturday; I hate plot armor)
Well said! I’m sorry to hear about the fate of your NPCs, but it sounds like they served their purpose at least haha
Basically this. It's like the term "rules lawyer". Folks applied to everyone who knew the rules and thus it made knowing the rules seem bad in and of itself. Instead of just calling X person a jerk and calling a normal rules-knower, well, nothing in particular. It's semantics. Anything can be used for bad if handled poorly.
Our DM (who is also a current player of mine for PF2e) had a drunken dwarf caravan guard NPC that he meant to kill off at some point. We (the players) all loved the characters exaggerated Scottish accent so much that we actively took care of, interacted with and paid the NPC to accompany us for more than half of the adventure. That's the best kind of "DMPC," a beloved NPC that players don't want to leave behind.
My players are a very small number. They like me to have a character to play. It lets us have larger encounters and I know the most about the lore so I can speak in character about things to teach the players in character. I struggle with actually doing things as any of these characters, because I hate stealing the scene. I always roll especially fair for them. My players don't mind, but it's MY players, not anyone else's, so it's impossible for me to speak on it outside of my experience. I can see why people wouldn't like it
Hey, as long as your players are cool with you having a character, you’re completely fine. It’s kind of fun being able to have your own character be part of the party, right? 😃
I also do this! I only have two party members, and they liked the idea of me playing my own character to help them out.
Love the topics you choose to analyze and talk about. Keep up the good work 👍
Thanks so much! That's really nice of you to say
40 year GM here: I've learned to cycle 3-5 "DMPCs" over the course of a 2-3 years campaign. Send them off after 5-10 sessions and try to bring them back after they've spent some time away. This prevents GM temptation while still giving the players and you an extra recourse. It can be great when a favorite that;s been gone a long time, shows up for the final act. I've done this as a Dios ex Machina without it being too cringe. Somehow.
That's great advice, thanks for sharing your experienced knowledge Dane 😀
Great vid! I tend to try limit my NPC's to characters the players know if they're bringing them on an adventure, but i have exceptions so ill typically just make them pre weak and while they can be story important its all to enhance the players experience lol
sounds like a great way to do it 😀
I played in a game with a DMPC who was the protagonist of the DMs story, we were all just along for their story. It was a pretty miserable experience. I agree with your video, as long as DMPC is more like a sidekick and the player's want them there it's ok. It's also good DMing that you gave your players multiple chances without repercussions to part ways if they wanted. I found your channel through your Skill Check video. I hope you'll do more. Regardless, I subscribed and have enjoyed all of your videos. Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to your next video!
That’s a bummer to hear about the DMPC taking the spotlight in your game, that’s definitely not how it should go.
Thanks for the kind words by the way, I really appreciate it 😃
I've played in groups where it worked.
One group was cycling DMs per adventure, so the DM would continue to play the own PC. Some struggled more than others to put their character more in the background, but it was never a real fail.
I design characters that are meant as "sidekicks" for the party and that could be interpreted as DMPC's, but usually give them personalities that make it natural for them to rely on the normal PCs to call the decisions. Like that warforged butler, who is so used to obeying the wishes of his masters that he actually has a hard time deciding for himself.
okay, but I have to say, a warforged butler sounds like one of the coolest things ever!
From person experience, I believe that they are SOMETIMES a necessary too. One that I have had to use semi-frequently. The reason I've had to do this is simple. Small groups of inexperienced players. BOTH factors are important to consider in this situation. If the group was larger, I wouldn't need to use a DMPC. If the group had been more experienced, I wouldn't have needed to use a DMPC. But with BOTH factors I needed to throw a DPMC into the group just to keep them alive.
That’s a very good point (that I wish I’d brought up in the video 😂) using an NPC to help new players is a great idea!
So glad you said agency at around 11:05. Once you said that the players invested literally and figuratively into Ryke (spelling? sorry!), they took their agency and ran away with a cool plotline and narrative. At the end of the day it's the table's story, and when they throw their narrative weight into something it's truly wonderful. It's so important to remember while you are crafting a story for them to engage in, at the end of the day if they find the unexpected threads most interesting that's your collective story. Backstory hooks with players, interesting narrative choices, a way for them to get out any time, and a well telegraphed end to the character are all important, too. But we can all agree that an undead into baked goods is way, way too cool to let get away from a party so you were doomed from the start! Like you said elsewhere, all that matters is that you and your players are having fun so nothing left to do but get out of the way of a good time!
Couldn’t have said it better myself 👏🏻 I’m also very honoured that you think my NPC is cool haha, thanks mate! P.S. looking forward to the next ep of Skill Check, ep. 2 was great!
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Well absolutely, love a character with an interesting story and an endearing quirk. Wondering what his favorite baked good is? 🤔 Also, you're too kind and glad to hear we settled a bit!
Haha it’s funny because the baked goods thing was just a side gag at first. I had the players do a heist to earn Rike’s trust, and the “super important” box they stole from a (very dangerous) noble ended up being some rare iced buns for him to eat 😂 I made it that he can only taste super sugary things, due to being undead. Now the players are always giving him sweets they find, very wholesome
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam that's so perfect, I actually had a heated debate today about HOW a skeleton would eat like a donut prompted entirely by this. Does he chew?!
Ahh, I luckily had the forethought to say he was more zombie than skeleton, and whatever necromancy was used let him keep at least enough of the internal parts for eating and chewing, like a tongue 😂
He definitely doesn’t NEED to eat, but who wouldn’t miss the taste of sugary pastries haha. Luckily none of my players grilled me too much about the logistics of it
I've had a pretty good experience as a player with the dungeon master having a dmpc for a significant portion of the campaign. He was far from overbearing or edgy, just a simple ranger type who helped us out of altruism. When he died for a plot device it may have been a little bit telegraphed and cliche feeling but it still had the desired effect of spurring on our characters
That's awesome! I love hearing about instances of it working 😀
Great video my dude, keep that useful content coming!
And yeah, definitely stealing your cool undead mercenary idea to use in my campaign :)
Haha go for it! You can use the idea in your game for sure. Thanks for watching
I had no idea there was a name for it. I had one when I took over a campaign when a DM quit, and I kept my PC from when I was a player in the mix just to keep things balanced. He was a character that was good at figuring out puzzles and legitimately figured out some puzzles when I played him as a PC. During his time as a DMPC, the other players turned to him for insight into how to solve a puzzle. Otherwise he just faded into the background until a fight happened. I deliberately made sure he never got any glory unless the players looked to him for help or were about to miss something cool entirely, but even then I'd let them get as much of the action as possible. And I made it clear that if they ever wished, they could just ask me and he'd fade permanently into the background and we'd pretend he was never there. It worked out well, they never had a problem with it, they actually seemed to appreciate him. That was my first time DMing too. I'm thinking of having more characters like that in my next campaign, though I think I'll incorporate some of your ideas here. I like the idea of the party hiring the DMPC, and thus having a canonical reason for players to make his choices for him, and also a reason for him to be optional.
It sounds like you did a great job for your first time as a DM, nice work!
I love hirelings and companions, as a player and a DM.
I love recruiting NPCs to the group. It makes the game feel more real when players come and go and player character are replaced as it is a roster that is always changing
That's a great way to put it, I completely agree!
Any rule has exceptions. When players like an NPC they will want them to stick around. I know, because I'm one of those players that gets attached to them all the time and always asks what they're doing and what they think and what their hopes and dreams are. I love collecting them and seeing them interact with each other like they're my precious little sims. It's great and as expected we have a lot of people in our combats and they nearly always take 2 sessions to resolve :^)
This is why i really like older editions and wish I could play them more as a player, I want that classic feel and to coolect as many retainers/followers as i want.
Haha "precious little sims" that's VERY wholesome, I love it 😂
That's a good way to run it. I accidentally ended up w/a DMPC for a time when my son decided not to play with his siblings' group, but I culled the character away about 1/3 through to hold down a fort the group had cleared with a group of Mt. Dwarves, so it wasnt an issue. I really like the idea of a Revenant following along though.
That sounds like a great way to do it. It's awesome your son is into D&D as well, that must be a fun way for the family to hang out
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Yeah I was fortunate that my daughter and her Easy Coast friends enjoyed having me DM for them, and my eldest son would dial in from the West Coast. We played for about a year before she went off to college - loved it. Everyone has jobs now so I don't get to play much these days. Maybe the occasional one-shot for a birthday or something.
I’m running for a very small party. This being my first 5e campaign (and my players all being new), I didn’t really have a ton of know-how for how to run a small party, so I fell back on the approach of make the party less small, and I’ve had some success using a couple of techniques.
1.) this is definitionally a DMPC. The character is a character who is with the party at all times, gets a share of any loot, the players think of him as part of the party, etc. With that said, I maintain my headspace thinking of this character as a NPC. He’s not the important one; the two PCs are. While he occasionally has moments, he tends to take a backseat to the party.
2.) the character was built last, was built to fill a hole, and was built with support in mind. His job is to make the PCs better at what they do. The party lacked a healer, so he’s a divine soul sorcerer with almost no direct damage capability. The PCs get the vast majority of the cool moments.
3.) “bless his heart it’s a good thing he’s pretty.” I made the character a complete benevolent himbo. He’s not terribly bright and knows it, trusts the PCs, and rarely makes a decision. He’s agreeable and supportive of the decisions they make. Related, with him not really knowing much (someone else has most of the knowledge skills on wrap), I’m virtually never going to be in the position of having to deliver DM directed knowledge through this character. It just wouldn’t make sense for him to know it because, well, bless his heart it’s a good thing he’s pretty.
4.) I minimized overlap. With the character being built last, I was able to look at skills and backgrounds taken and make sure this character wouldn’t have a chance of shining where others should. This does sometimes create some weirdness, where nobody took any social skills, so in investigations the sorcerer with the noble background likely should be taking the lead. In these scenarios, I often let the players do the RP and roll with the sorcerer’s bonus, or he’ll break off to go have a conversation they aren’t interested in/equipped to have/available to have, while the PCs go do some other critical task. I tend to just roll a skill check or two for these and let that guide how much information he shows back up with.
It *can* be done, but most of the advice given is don’t for a reason. I’ve found a path to success with my small party, and hopefully if anyone ever finds themselves in a similar situation, what I’ve written helps them do the same, but most of the time “don’t” is the best advice for how to run a DMPC.
Those are some really great rules to hold yourself to, and may I say, the "benevolent himbo" sounds like an absolute blast to have with the party 😂
my players often just ask a "quest giver" etc to join them on the adventure, but i never have them initiate anything during the adventure, just wait for the players to interact with them. in combat i use them if it makes sense, but if they're someone who wouldn't fight i just have them sit it out or guard their camp etc while the others fight/explore. if there are multiple retainer/mercenary-like npcs with the party, i just have the players control them in combat.
That's a great way to put it. Another trick I use that I forgot to mention in the video is I will sometimes have the NPC getting innocent people out of the danger zone while the players fight
It's cool to see the exception to the rule work out when the players are the ones creating that exception. Nice job showing examples of which stars had to align to make this happen. It's good to know a DM has this a tool, even if it's unlikely.
P.S. One small request: Include your socials in your description. I went to follow you on Twitter but had to pause the video and navigate away to look it up.
If it was in the description I could have clicked the hyperlink and the video would have kept playing in the Background. Just makes it that much easier for peeps :)
Keep up the good work man!
-David
Thanks, that's super nice of you to say! Also, that's a great bit of feedback, I can definitely get my socials put in the description going forward, sorry for the hassle
@RoguesRollCall-Cam No problem dude! I want to see your channel continue to grow cuz you make good stuff!
(I was the guy who also commented earlier on your Skill Check show analysis video, this is just a different account - wanted to sub on both haha ;))
I use DMPCs when I DM for two or fewer PCs. I play a lot of duets (just me as the DM and one PC), and DMPCs will often come in and out of the story to assist when necessary, but I keep a hard rule about them not taking the spotlight, not making major decisions, etc. They’re sort of Retainer-Adjacent.
The other mechanism I’ll use is a creature that functions as an animal companion but can be healed, does death saves, and has a full action economy but that action economy is fully under control of the PC. I just play the creature’s interactions if they’re addressed by the PC somehow.
Another favorite is “enemy NPC adopted by the party.”
I had an experience like that in our last campaign! They had to fight a rival crew of sellswords, and ended up taking their bard as a prisoner before befriending and hiring him to be the musician for the Tavern they bought haha
I have run several games and I have played as a dmpc. They are there to fill out the group and help as sometimes a guide or to point the pcs in the right direction if they are lost. The problem is when the dm is favoring the dmpc. They should tag along and help not taking the lead away from the other characters.
I absolutely agree!
I have often used DMPCs
I had tons of charts to detail encounters, treasures, terrain, etc so even I didn’t know what to expect. My games are pretty much player run sandbox and I just fill in the details as I rolled them up
You sound a LOT better prepared than I am for my games haha. Thanks for watching!
Ill watch this later but i can tell its gonna be a good video
the main DMPCS i give are closer to Sidekicks, Retainers, Henchmen or Cohorts. where parties had entire armies of them in old school D&D. a PC with 8-12 Charisma had 4 Cohorts, a PC with 13 Charisma had 5 Cohorts, a PC with 18 Charisma had like 25 class leveled cohorts at a time. a single classed human fighter or thief with no kits or subclasses got to have twice as many cohorts. but at plot interverals, i'll give free cohorts that don't take a cohort slot. in Pathfinder 1e/D&D 3e,. i ban the leadership feat and instead give 1/4th of your BAB in PC classed Cohorts 2 levels below you, rounded up. minimum level 1. in 5e, i give a number of equal level sidekick classed sidekicks equal to a PC's Proficiency bonus. with NPCs less than CR 1/2 being beefed up to CR 1/2. generally using a scout with a race choice as the baseline for balance. because i know the best CR 1/2 5e NPC to turn into a sidekick is the Scout because it has 14 Dex, Multiattack, the ability to select a race choice for no CR adjustment, and can get 16 Dexterity after race choice. making it arguably the best sidekick option. because it can be an expert with multiple attacks and really good weapon options. and the Warrior doesn't get better than a baseline scout at combat until level 15 with a 3rd attack because scout gets 2 attacks by default and can easily spec into dual wielding for a 3rd attack in melee even as an expert. except you aren't taking the scout for its melee prowess. you are taking it because you need a sneaky perceptive forager who is good with a bow, able to do recon, and is arguably a better ranger than most rangers because it doesn't cost a PC slot and is good enough at a ranger's job despite that. and sure, Ranger might be more powerful, but ranger eats a PC slot, Scout eats a Sidekick slot. and Scouts are still good melee flankers being generally fast as heck and faster as experts.
Great break down, you definitely know your stuff. Thanks for watching by the way! 😁
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam effectively, scout expert sidekicks, in 5e, are the poor man's better ranger. not because they got the numbers, but because they are cheap.
My DMPCs are always squires, servants, apprentices, guides, etc. They're usually NPCs that the PCs can order around and command.
It really depends on your group. New players might be relieved to have a DMPC, while veterans might look for the first opportunity to make him fall into an unfortunate accident.
Either way, as long as the group is having fun and your NPC isn't railroading or meta-gaming for the PCs, it's all good.
You summed it up very well, 100% agree 😀
Interesting video, I'm going to be running decent into avernus and was worried about handling lulu and reya
Oo I’ve watched people play descent into Avernus, it looks like a ton of fun. Best of luck running the campaign!
I haven't use one persay but I have used awesome mentor type NPCs that show up from time to time just to give my players direction when they need it in a sandbox game... But what I have done is write a 1000 year scifi setting that practly orbits my self insert who is supposed to be my hero someone I can look up to and grow IRL to become one day maybe... And yeah those are said to be impossible to write but I can because I have a whole load of teqniques to do so but it is not easy and mainly depends on him being well likled by the readers... Which I think holds true with DMPCs to if you want to play a PC you can it's a copertive game after all you just have to treat them as if they were played by another non DM. Also remember the DM is a player too after all and you get to have many DMPCs and most even engang in PVP! aka in a TTRPG an NPC is a DMPC because they are not AI/bots/computer controller characters... So in D&D if you had an enemy party with normal character sheets those whould be DMPC 100%... But yeah in the context of this video I see nothing wrong with the GM having a DMPC as long as they are not toxic with them.
Well said! It sounds like you have it pretty sorted out. Thanks for watching 😁
I'm super new to D&D but I agree that DMPCs could certainly have a temporary role in a campaign. For example if one of the players of an established campaign needs to cancel their attendance to a few game nights it might be easier for his character to become DM-played for a while instead of killing them off and create a new character upon their return (but I've only seen this strategy used as a last resort, and only in case none of the players wanted to temporarily take on an extra role). Even though I've never dm'd before, I feel like using DMPCs is in general super tricky but also I can't immagine a scenario in which they would be fun to play for the dm: if the dm has full control over the DMPC's actions then those actions are bound to be biased by dm knowledge, which for the dm would be no more fun than interpreting an NPC, plus it would make it difficult not to spoil the game or herd the players (at least it would be nearly impossible for me XD); on the other hand, rolling dice to control the DMPC's actions would at least introduce some unpredictability for the DM too, but then I wouldn't see much sense in creating a character I can't control when I already have uncontrollable people sitting at the table. Personally I know when I'll start dm'ing I won't use DMPCs, but I would never outlaw them. I do love a creative use of NPCs though! I'm curious to hear how your first D&D game ever went :) Mine was pure chaotic fun XD
Very well said, and I'd be keen to hear how DMing goes for you, when you give it a try. I will definitely make a video at some point about how the first game went (if I can dig through my bad memory for it, that is 😂)
I really love “DMPCs” both as a player and as a DM (I’ve not ever used one during a full campaign but I’ve had one accompany players on one shots) there’s a DMPC in a campaign I’m a player in right now and she’s honestly one of my fav NPCs lmao
Obviously they can be mishandled though so one has to be careful
That’s awesome! I’m sure your DM is very honoured that you like the NPC, I know I would be
Had an NPC at the start of a spelljammer campaign to set up some story and die shortly after due to various injuries he sustained. Party ended up spending a lot of their resources to save him and he ended up joining the early boss fight. After that I had planned for him to basically stay on the party's ship with the justification that he was missing a leg and thus couldn't really fight. The party then ended up spending some time to make him a replacement leg and started dragging him along with them. They paid him wages for working with the crew, and he's been pulled into a romantic relationship with one of the PCs and a sibling-esque rivalry with another where the two constantly try to one-up each other with pranks.
I've ran him as a much lower level character than the party (He's a level 3 fighter while the party is level 7) with a few extra hitpoints for survivability. I also have one of the players (The party's captain) control him in combat. He doesn't comment in most situations except when there's an extended silence or unless someone talks to him first. The party's collected a handful of additional npc companions as well including two sentient magic items and (as of the most recent session) two artificers who are meant as a means for the party to have easy access to a store to upgrade their ship.
Also got another campaign where I built a system for temporary companions as the party is a far more established group starting-off and know a lot of people. And one of the PCs is an actual knight with a squire. In that campaign you can call on one of your companions to help you in one combat once per long rest (It's a gritty realism campaign so lr is 7 days). I ran the companions myself the first time they showed up in the first big fight of the campaign and plan to move them off to the players their connected to's control after that. I had considered using this system as well (But changing out LR for 7 days) for my spelljammer campaign but haven't fully decided if I want to or not yet.
That's so wholesome haha! I love hearing stories of players taking on NPCs like a little brother/sister 😂
DMPCs are completely fine. Except when they aren’t.
Bottom line - a PC can only be made as powerful as the rules and the DM allows.
A DMPC can only be made as powerful as the DM allows.
I had a conversation in comments with a DM defending their use of DMPC as totally normal. I asked what the species of their DMPC was and the DM responded, “Demi-God.”
Omg, "Demi-God" sounds VERY extreme for a DMPC. How much do you want to bet that DMPC was getting the last blow on most enemies, yikes
I think the issue is mostly execution. DMPCs aren’t inherently bad. They’re just not commented on when they’re done well, because they’re not a focal point. I had a player’s character’s brother name an appearance as a rival, which fell flat with two nat 1s in a row, followed by a divination wizard inflicting another 1; before that NPC gave up and the character who he was related to insisted on dragging him along. Good times. Could not get the pricks to let go of him
I've used DMPCs when necessary. They never give advice, never take the lead, never participate in planning discussions. They're essentially hireling I use to fill out a party when I don't have enough players for a balanced game.
That sounds perfect! I couldn’t see me having any issues as a player there
I had a similar experience and I don’t think anyone needs to feel bad about creating a lovable NPC.
I feel like they’re more of a team mascott than a DMPC.
"Team mascot" is a great way to put it! I love that
I think the key to playing dmpcs is twofold:
1.) Be okay with them being changed/ affected/ or killed by the party.
2.) Dont let them take the spotlight without player approval.
The biggest issues ive seen with dmpcs is that dms try to use them to direct the players and be a "leader" or "superior" to the players.
Dmpcs should largely be support to what the players do.
Absolutely agree, very well said
Im playing my 2nd time with a 2nd group through the tomb of anihalation. In Toa a big thing at the start is getting a guide, both my groups went with Azaka, she is a weretiger girl thats fierce , she is there to just be a guide , and while with 1st group that was it. In this 2nd group one of the players after finding out about her weretiger curse, got a 21 persuasion after explaining his story to get her to turn him too.
Obv the stats on weretiger is too mch so i made it has he couldnt control himself at first and few other downsides like exhaustion after turning etc .
Well so he would ask azaka to help him get in control.
Its also where he multiclassed barbarian. So he would rage and turn.
Azaka and that player became close.
And being a 3 party group.
With that players char and azaka developing a relationship. She ended up entering the tomb with the party
Now we are close to the end.
I havent had her solve anything . The magic items she has the party has given to her because she became quite underpowered as she doesnt level up.
She mainly talks when asked.
She is there from mostly day 1.
It made no sense for her to leave in the story and going into the tomb with 3 players is harsh.
So she is still there, being a mostly quiet but essential part to the group after so long.
Now from this coment it might seem that one player is quite favoured, which he does have alot shit happen to him , but it was never by design. And other players had their own shit.
It just didnt involve a npc 😂
You want to know something kinda funny, you're not the first person in the comments of this video who had the ToA weretiger get convinced to join the player's party 😂 It seems players just can't resist, it's awesome
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam ye its hard to resist an amazon with more furry side i guess 🤣🤣
I DM’d a game and left a random member of a religious organization to pass a message with no plans for him beyond that. My players had a lengthy conversation with multiple persuasion checks and convinced him to join for a regular fee. I made the fee (what I felt) was absurdly high for his skill, but they agreed with no haggling whatsoever.
After months together of them jumping through hoops to make sure he almost never went down, they convinced him to join full time as a member earning his fair share of the loot.
That sounds like almost exactly what happened with me, that's awesome 😀
If I was playing with a DM that had a DMPC that they were attached to and wanted to tag along, I wouldn't mind if they took up the spotlight every now and then so long as said DM was equally if not more attentive to the backstories and character moments of each of the player characters in their party. Like, simply letting the guy who's putting in the most work to make the session bring their own player character into the mix isn't a problem from my perspective so long as they're not dominating the field of play through a godmodded character or anything stupid like that.
I've never DMed for DnD before, however I have done a lot of cooperative creative writing and other sorts of make believe involving more than one person at a time before- it tends to end up with the people who have ideas for stories to tell within the shared space taking the lead and directing the play until someone else has something to yes-and with or take control as the 'dm' for a bit. It's just a matter of being courteous and making sure everyone is cool with what's going on rather than a hard and fast rule imo, but I understand why a lot of people would see anything looking like a DMPC as an immediate red flag when they're not already playing with a friend group who knows how to share spotlight and be a good sport about the whole thing.
I think you said it very well 👏🏻 thanks for watching by the way 😃
See to me what you're describing isn't a DMPC, because the defining feature of the DMPC is that the DM plays the DMPC as "their PC" in the campaign, involving them far too much in the determination of what happens. I think long running companion NPCs, which is how I'd describe the character in your game, also need very careful handling and you give excellent advice on how to do that. It comes down to semantics in the end.
that's nice of you to say, thanks so much. You're right, for the most part like most things in D&D, it's all just subjective semantics (but it can still be fun to chat about anyway 😂) thanks for watching :)
I think there is a key difference between your tale and most horror stories you hear about them: They were nothing characters they wanted to learn more from and wanted to keep. Most of the time when the DMPC is dropped, they are given this massive role with a high ego and higher knowledge the DM does not dare part away from knowing because he also makes the encounters and puzzles.
So for me, making a DMPC needs several rules
1. The players should WANT them. If they are being tacked on against their will, then that goes against the players will.
2. Their roles should be minor. This is their adventure. All they are is an extra hand that can help where asked.
3. They should know about as much as the players. This is the biggest challenge as the DM needs to keep note on what they learn, and what is being asked of them. What point is a valve pressure puzzle if the character already knows it like the back of their hand? Sure, they can know more (its probably why they hired them in the first place), but they should have their own spots of lacked talent/knowledge.
Some really great points, especially number 3. I wish I'd talked in the video about the factor of the DM separating what they know, from what the NPC should know, but maybe next time 😂
Thanks for watching!
GMPCs are tools and like all tools, can be used for good or ill. The main reason GMPCs have so much of a bad rep is because they're often sued for the wrong reasons and/or executed poorly. I used GMPCs when I started GMing because the GM I'd learned the game from did so and as a player, I hadn't found them problematic. Becasue of this, it was only much later that I learned they weren't standard practice, never mind that there was an actual term for them. All of the hate for them confused me a lot until I discovered RPG horror stories and discovered that some GMs used them to railroad PCs or to be the Main Character of the story that were supposed to be have the Player Characters in the starring roles. Then I discovered GMs who were so concerned with avoiding that, that they instead hobbled any NPC that travelled with the party, sometimes to the extent of creating a whole new problem: A Millstone NPC. Someone the party has to protect because they're 'Plot Important' but is useless in combat and often annoying both in and out of it.
Meanwhile, I started GMing without them, as The Internet had told me DMPCs Are Bad. Then I ended up running a game with only two PCs and they got into a mess because neither had any healing ability (this wasn't 5E so no miracle sleeping). I put in an NPC who could heal, and she was to stay with them for long enough for them to reach their destination settlement. They got there and she was all "Well, it's been nice meeting you; I'll be off now..." and the PCs both turned around and vigorously protested the idea of her leaving. I actually stepped out of character to check OOC whether they actually wanted her to stay around and they insisted they did.
As with Rike, I have always made sure my players know they don't have to keep NPCs around but every game, they adopt at least one; far from me forcing an NPC on the PCs, it's more like they won't actually let them leave (Not literally; they've haven't actually kidnapped anyone yet). I've never had an NPC make any sort of final decisions, although obviously, I'll have them offer opinions, which I've also been at pains to make sure my players know is the NPC's opinion only and may or may not be the best course of action. They have personalities and backstories because they are, above all, people and heck, people talk to each other about stuff. An NPC with no personality might as well just be an item and if anyone wants to put in an NPC but doesn't want the trouble of roleplaying them, just actually provide an item instead.
There is also the fact that having an NPC in the party when they go up against a powerful enemy means you can target them with any effects that would put the target out of action. Beign taken out of a fight, especially early on, sucks for players but targeting the NPC can let you showcase the power without doing that- at least, the first time. It means the PCs know what they're up against and that next time, it could - or will - be one of them and will incentivise them to take down the enemy so as to avoid being next. This can also be handy if someone needs to be 'damselled' in another fashion at some point.
VERY good points, well said!
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Thank you!
imo the only time the DMPC label is justified is when a DM is using an NPC in the party as their own pc, or using one that's OP just to dominate the action, rather than, as you suggest, as a part of the story. I started in the 80's, and we frequently had NPC's in the party, if only to beef us up, because we always had few players, and even playing 2 characters each, as we often did, that extra body helped. It was always acceptable as long as the NPC was reasonably equal in level to the party and the DM wasn't giving them any special advantages. But we never bothered with henchmen, hirelings, followers, and the like either.
That's completely fair. I only just learned recently from someone in the comments that the older editions of D&D included a lot more companion NPCs, which is really cool to know
As a dungeon master, who uses a lot of DM PCs, due to certain players in my group, not being able to show up, players, wanting to build characters that don’t balance well as a party, and just wanting to be more involved in the game. I have realized that if you want to create a DM PC, there are a few rules that you should abide by.
1. The DMP should never be the star of the show. Most of my DM PCs are humorous characters that are not meant to be taken seriously. I don’t base any of the plot around them, and I don’t make them the focal point of the story. My players are the focal point of the story.
2. The DMC does not step on any of the player characters toes. When I build these characters, I always make it a point for them to fill a role that is missing because I think it is important, or the players just didn’t want to fill that part in the party. That way people can play the characters they want without me constantly obsessing over party balance, and group cohesion.
3. If possible, the DMP should be a support character. That usually just happens to me naturally, and this is more of a suggestion than a rule. I just happened to notice that when I would play a damage dealer like a paladin who had some support features other players would get annoyed if I didn’t use my lay on hands to heal them. I think they felt that my character doing a bunch of the damage kind of took a bit of the fun from them. So I mostly focus on Druids, clerics, and wizards as DM PCs.
4. Never make the DMC the party face. This is mainly because of the fact that you’re already trying to manage the world. If you’re going to use a DM PC, you should make sure that it’s a character that you don’t have to think too heavily about. Clerics, Druids and wizards are OK because those just make good villains anyway. You should probably get well acquainted with their spellcasting class and how to use it.but if you have to role-play a charisma character, that’s just a bit too much.
5. Make sure to check in with your players to make sure they’re having fun. You should honestly do this whether you’re using a DMC or not. But it’s still good advice to give people.
I would like to apologize about the bad grammar. Having to rely on Siri dictation due to being legally blind sucks. Anyway, I hope this was useful for somebody.
Those are some absolutely fantastic tips Jordan, thanks for watching and adding your knowledge!
Whether a DMPC is good for the group very much depends on the DM’s style. I’ve been in games where the DM suffered main character syndrome and we ended up listening to hour long monologues or wondering why we had to deal with a problem that the DMPC could have handled while blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back.
I swore I would never use a DMPC after that.
Now I GM online most groups have a DMPC in them, with some basic rules attached.
I never allow myself to be attached to th DMPC, that way if any thing happens or the players want them gone, it doesn’t bother me.
They are never better than the lowest level character in the party, and always last in line for any magic items.
They tend to be hybrid characters that can fill in for any character whose player can’t make a session. It means they really aren’t good at anything but can manage to do whatever is needed, albeit not as well as the PC could have done.
The players never have to worry about who is going to hang back and look after the horses when they charge off into combat, or who is going to have one hand full holding a lantern while exploring a dungeon, the DMPC can do it.
There is nothing wrong with having a DMPC but they should NEVER be the star of the show.
Very well said, and definitely some fantastic rules you've set out. Thanks for watching! 😀
DMPCs are fine as long as players are the main characters. As long as they can die just like anyone else, their power inflation is less than or equal to the Party, and magic items are not being custom made for this character.
Agreed!
The only time a DMPC is forbidden is when they take agency away from the players, or overshadow them, imo.
I ran Tomb of Annihilation a while ago, and part of the beginning of that campaign is hiring a guide to take you through the jungle. The players chose one willing to work for a favor instead of pay. It turned out she was a weretiger, and the party ended up just being very accepting of that fact, and friendly toward her.
When she eventually left the party because they were going into an area she considered much too dangerous to enter, herself, one of the party members was upset. They’d gotten close enough with her that he felt like he was being abandoned by a friend.
So, I’d definitely say DMPCs/Companion NPCs/whatever can be a great addition to a team without being disruptive.
And, frankly, I think an interesting campaign could begin with a ‘disruptive’ main character NPC that ends up becoming the campaign villain.
Well said! I like your idea too, a companion NPC that becomes a villain would be a great twist
Like a lot of DM Advice a lot of it is kinda... subjective? Like for the most part it doesnt work.... but It can work. It really comes down to everyone at the table.
Absolutely, almost everything is subjective when it comes to D&D, but that's the fun in chatting about the hows and whys. Thanks for watching 😀
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam you're welcome! It was a good video!
I honestly have seen DMPCs done so badly in games i have played in that those four letters are the biggest red flag to me. If the DMPC is basicly a party member that the party has no choice but working with. If the DM is both Party Member and DM i have seen them purposefully overshadow a character. The situation i experiences was the DM would constantly insert their DMPC into my backstories which would then have to be rewritten to accommodate their character cuz i am a people pleaser, and was always substantially more powerful vs the power as well they would get homebrew subclasses while we stuck with standard. In my own homebrew world - i refuse to use DMPCs because i legit had my story and character stolen by the DM.
I can absolutely understand seeing DMPCs as a red flag, especially if you've had bad experiences with them. Thanks for watching! 😀
If you can not 'control the story' with a world full of N.P.C.'s at your disposal:
What is one 'more persistent' NPC really going to do?
That there is my real gripe with the concept of a Dungeon Master Character, for you don't require them to make the story function. Fill the roll out with lesser N.P.C.'s that you can switch out as needed, for those are your 'characters' to play with. The group will find it far more enjoyable if they are not being dragged around by one major character, and when you find out which N.P.C.'s the party resonates with... put those N.P.C.'s into threat.
I wonder if D.M.P.C.'s are vestigial, as most storytellers had once been players.
That's good point, definitely an interesting thing to think about 🤔 (thanks for watching by the way)
A lot of online discourse about DnD comes down to people exaggerating other people's bad experiences and drawing their opinions from that. Or just repeating what they hear without thinking about it. People's hate for DMPCs comes from the same place that some people's weird obsession with safety tools and infantilizing themselves and their players comes from: It's an overcompensation for someone else's bad experience (that may or may not be an exaggeration itself) from some horror story that is the exception and not the rule. And rather than approaching that potential for a negative experience rationally, they go overboard like an overactive immuno response.
A bad DM will try to make their DMPC steal the spotlight. A good DM will make them a valuable interactable addition to the party and story. A midwit redditor will read r/horrorstories and decide "ALL DMPCs are bad and you should feel bad for playing them" Reality is they are just one of many tools that can be wielded well or poorly.
The character you describe isn't a DMPC. It's an NPC. DMPC's aren't LIKE the other players.... they literally ARE a player character with the same mechanics and narrative agency as the PCs.... just controlled by someone with perfect knowledge of upcoming events and the solution to every problem they can face. They might not deliberately choose to act on it.... but no matter how good a roleplayer you are, you can't not know what you know. And no matter what mental gymnastics you pull to convince yourself you're not accounting for DM knowledge.... you're doing mental gymnastics that no PC has to do.... so you're always thinking differently. Additionally, even if you have full trust from your players, any time your DMPC succeeds, there is the question of why they succeeded.
Have NPCs that travel with the party. Have them be fully realized and entertaining characters. Absolutely. But the DM's job means they can never experience the game as a PC... they have to be able to see the mechanics behind the game and the PC's need to be tricked into ignoring them (I don't mean that cynically). DMPCs are ALWAYS a bad idea, and, although I know a load of other people in the comments section will rush to explain how the one DMPC they had was a really good idea it probably wasn't actually a DMPC (as in your story) and if it was it wasn't a good idea.
TTRPGs at their core are about making choices and dealing with the consequences. If the person making the choices is deciding the consequences then that core vanishes. Write a novel instead.
yeah I don't disagree, I did talk in the video specifically about what I'm describing not being seen as DMPC's but rather "companion NPCs." I absolutely agree with you that separating what you know as a DM from what that NPC should know is something that can be very hard to get right, but that's what most of this video talks about, how to leave the choice agency with the players, not the NPC/DM
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Which is what I said first... if the players have the agency it's an NPC, not a DMPC.
Yeah I'm not trying to argue or disagree with you or anything mate, was just talking about how a lot of people (even in this comment section) have different ideas of what classifies the NPC as a DMPC or not. I just like chatting about it :)
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Same here! Absolutely not a criticism. I think it's a really interesting topic, especially as it's something that returns to RPG discussion so often.
I never make NPCs mesh with PCs backstory if I want my players to not be invested in them
From person experience, I believe that they are SOMETIMES a necessary too. One that I have had to use semi-frequently. The reason I've had to do this is simple. Small groups of inexperienced players. BOTH factors are important to consider in this situation. If the group was larger, I wouldn't need to use a DMPC. If the group had been more experienced, I wouldn't have needed to use a DMPC. But with BOTH factors I needed to throw a DPMC into the group just to keep them alive.
That's a completely fair reason to use a DMPC 😀