Technically the green tip didn’t penetrate the armor plate making it not armor piercing. Therefore banning it because it’s armor piercing, makes about as much sense as any other gun law....
Your test videos are so well organized and informative... I think it's awesome you decided to expand to include body armor. I hope you do some more! I gave this video a like :]
Last I read, there is no official standard for III+. It's something that body armor manufacturers invented to give customers something better than III, but not as expensive or perhaps bulky as IV.
I've been watching your videos for years I've never liked or commented till now. the completeness of the information you provide along with the straightforward approach is excellent. thank you for your time and I look forward to more of your videos that I will "like" in the future. God Bless.
Right around the 3:00 mark you can see what looks like decent energy transfer in the ballistic gel. Important to note that although you didn't have a bullet pass through you, you can still suffer other types of trauma just from impact. Especially if you end up taking multiple rounds. Make sure you buy those trauma pads.
Tried both M193 and M855 green tip out of my 16-inch bolt rifle, at 100 yards, the green tip did make deeper divots into my AR500 steel. M193 barely a scratch.
Great video, your content is cut above all of the similar channels. Always spot on with providing specs/info. Thanks for putting the time and effort in.
Yet again, a very well made, detailed, and informative video. I am glad you are still doing videos, even if they are few and far between. Keep them coming just whenever you can do so and we all appreciate it!
Always good to have another video from you. Impressive science approach as always. Good documentation, good control of variables, good shot placement to avoid interference with craters from earlier shots, and a good way to show its effectiveness. Glad you are feeling better. Watch this heat and humidity!
I always get a crack out of calling green tips "armor penetrating" rounds. I think we have a lot of youtubers to thank for that. People who have thousands upon thousands of subs talking out their ass. Some people did some video's as pure sarcasm about it being AP. But the actual community going on and on about it being an AP round is something that scares people who don't know any better. I stopped watching a few youtube channels over them giving poor information and using scare tactics about un-researched political BS as well. Glad you keeping to the facts, as usual.
Sarin Highwind These guys around where I live were selling "armor grade" steel targets. They said "we've tested it at 50 yards with a 50 BMG and it didn't even scratch it. But don't shoot it with them green tips cause they'll hum through it like hot butter." I just laughed my way back to the car.
Even after all this time, nobody beats you when it comes to presenting these things. The right amount of fact with that perfect dash of sarcasm and amusing side talk. :D Good to hear you're feeling better.
It's very interesting to note in both TNOutdoors test and my own testing how close in velocity M193 & M855 are from the 16" barrel guns, especially with 1:9 rifling. Everyone always says how the "green tip" is so much slower than M193 ball, but from a 16" carbine the difference is usually only ~50 fps on average. My personal favorite 5.56 service load is still the 77gr Sierra OTM from a 20" gun. Field ballistics on this load at combat distances are excellent, much improved over M193 or M855.
Nice video but I'm disappointed you didn't hit it with any AP 5.56 or 7.62. I'd love to see how much damage they do, and whether anything gets into the gel!
As a fan of both AR500 armor and your ballistic tests I found this video highly informative and entertaining. I would like to see you test the plate with some harder hitting rounds in future videos, or perhaps the same rounds out of your long barreled AR. Keep up the great work!
Glad to see you back making videos. I would love to see some buckshot ballistic gel test. James Yeager did a great series buckshot patterns with different barrels. I was surprised to see the tight pattern of the reduced recoil loads. Can you make some videos comparing different buckshot loads?
BLANK MAN Not likely to happen, unfortunately, as I'm planning to wrap it up here by the end of August. This "catalog" is 99% finished. I really need to get focused on some other projects.
Great to see a professional, accurate body armor test. On another channel, they rig the test by using an (unrealistic) longer barrel, overpressure rounds at half the distance. Their "penetration" consisted of tiny deformed fragments, NOT intact rounds. It's easy to scare people (and pump-up your viewer hits) with a biased test. Thanks for not doing that.
@@user-lp3cf5yn5b I don't have the exact sales numbers, but somewhere less than 5% of all AR owners have a barrel greater than 18". The most common rifle-length barrel is 16", while the trend is more toward pistol-length carbine barrels of 10-12". That said, it is unrealistic and dangerous to infer that someone with a common length AR barrel will have the same penetration results as a rig with a 20" barrel (which statistically almost no one has). Math is your friend ;)
Demolition Ranch has done several variants of that, including with the .50 BMG. That's entertaining. But in general the coating on that armor plate does a great job of catching fragments, at least from rated rounds.
Weta I was thinking during the video that it would have been a good idea to place a cardboard box in front of the plate (opened on two sides, so as not to disturb the bullet), in order to show the fragmentation/spalling pattern.
s from east TN! Glad to see another video from you. Hope things are good for you and glad to see you healthy again. You had me quite concerned. Wish you had more time to make more videos, but I understand how life is. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to the next one.
This is exactly what I'm interested in! Glad you made this video. I'm still subscribed, but I thought you might be done with TH-cam. Very infotaining video. I hope you stay in the mix bringing quality material.
Good testing, don't think I've seen a plate strapped to ballistics gel before. Hope you test it again with something that might have a chance at pass through because I'm curious about what kind of wound channel that would produce.
would love to see a gel test of these 3 cartridges. maybe even a barrier test? wood, glass etc.. a brick 4inch in front of gel. interested to see what the MK318 and that sp do. thx for vid.
Very well done. Nice change of pace. If you plan to stop by On Target in Murfreesboro, I would like to know so I can meet you. You do the best videos. Hickok 45 does some nice ones, too, but likes to talk more than necessary, sometimes. As a retired teacher, I know about the gift of gab syndrome.
Murfreesboro_Jim I don't get by there so much these days; Murfreesboro traffic. You are more likely to see me at Outpost Armory. LOL on the Hickok comment. I'm in sales and do everything possible NOT to talk.....imagine that.
T9 cool video but there is a lot of argument whether or not a 20" barrel will provide a pass through would love to see an answer on that once and for all.. and thanks for your time glad your back sir!
Patriot Outdoors I responded to that question to some degree, in the description. I foresee this coming up about every 12th comment, and it's a good point. Thanks
i understand why you used a 16" barrel but that, combined with pushing the target out to 50 feet, pretty much guaranteed that even the M193 wouldn't penetrate. For penetrating steel armor, velocity is king...
+tnoutdoors9 your final video? Man I thought I had heard this a while back. This makes me seriously sad. I have been watching your videos for sometime now. I can honestly say you've been my favorite reviewer to watch. Your videos are always informative and theway you present them are at the top. Thank you for all of your great videos and the time and money you've spent through the years. I'll keep dreaming for an eventual return. If your ever in Oklahoma let me know I'll buy you a beer 🍺.
Spall is better than being penetrated by the projectile, but that spall lining didn't really seem to do much. For this type of armor in the future(that fragments and repels projectiles rather than wrapping them up and "catching" them), can you please toss some gel around the periphery of the plate to get a better understanding of what your arms/chin/wang-dang-doodle are in for? The anti-spall coating is one of the "features" of this and similar plates. Having some way to measure its effectiveness vs. other manufacturers would help in making an informed decision. Thanks for your continued work to inform the firearms community. I really value all the time and money you put in to producing these.
sp22m3 Good info and suggestion for gauging protection (in particular the wang-dang-doodle) but the Mossberg 930 review on 8-14-15 was my final video. I have commented on this at the "ABOUT" channel page.
Great vid as always. I've never personally cared if they ban green tip or not. There is literally nothing M855 will penetrate that M193 will not. Add to that the fact that M193 does better against non-armored targets than M855 and it just makes the green tip nothing special for me. Speed is what defeats body armor when talking about a small/lightweight projectile. In fact, when I ordered my plates for my personal carrier I ordered an extra to shoot at in the yard. From my ARs it stopped all 5.56, but from my 24" bolt gun M193 went clean through when even M855 did not. The plate also stopped 147gr FMJ .308" bullet at 2840fps. I did not own my SoCom16 at that time so I couldn't crank the .308 bullet faster (I was using .300 Savage brass) but with a .308 case only offering slightly more volume for powder I still don't think it would have defeated it. On the other hand I loaded some .30-06 AP pull downs on the .300 Sav brass around 2790-2800fps and that went through the level 3 as expected.
Nice video! I had the same results, in fact green tip and mk318 wouldn't even go through the regular Level III from ar500armor. I pushed a 22-250 vmax through that plate. Maybe you could try a 50gr vmax in .223 from a 20" if you're looking to perforate it.
The Wound Channel I've tested the AE 50gr Tipped Varmit, and out of 16" barrel it's right around 3000 fps avg. I might be close at with a 20" barrel. I wonder what a 40gr Hornady TAP load will do. Those are roughly 3400 fps from a 16" barrel.
nice video, an interesting watch as the reason im subscribed. but how about some tests on why a nation would need to purchase body armor. or why so many different variations of 5.56 ammunition are available to purchase. ;)
Interesting, but where did all the fragments go? If you were wear that when hit you would have fragments in your chin throat and dick. Normal body armor absorbs all the frags, even from the edge or even the back of the plate. I would have see a test with jell all around the edges to believe it works. Early Iraqi body armor was made like this. Did not fair well.
You should run your DPMS heavy barrel setup against it to see how it fairs. It seems like everyone runs 16" carbines against plates because it is a common threat. I've seen very few videos in the inter-toobs with 20" barrels
MugenAlt236 I addressed that with a long rant in the video description. That's just it, most people don't even consider the 20" barrel, which also has to do with what the companies market to us. That was obvious after spending two days on the exhibit floor at NRA Nashville and visiting every manufacturer on the floor. The trend is toward shorter barrels and using lighter components when possible. I've had suggestions to use my 24" barrel with the Green Tip, which is yet a smaller demographic of users.
![AR500 Armor [Review]: All Threat Levels + Armor Piercing Rounds!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fd7LeSaldIE/mqdefault.jpg)
Technically the green tip didn’t penetrate the armor plate making it not armor piercing. Therefore banning it because it’s armor piercing, makes about as much sense as any other gun law....
Oh my God how dare you question our all knowing law makers 🤣🤣
They don't care.
Then why does it even exist if it doesn't penetrate armor better than other 5.56 rounds?
@@jalexanderevans penetrates barriers better
@@jalexanderevans it was designed to penetrate barriers,walls,cars,glass metals etc
Your test videos are so well organized and informative... I think it's awesome you decided to expand to include body armor. I hope you do some more! I gave this video a like :]
Last I read, there is no official standard for III+. It's something that body armor manufacturers invented to give customers something better than III, but not as expensive or perhaps bulky as IV.
I've been watching your videos for years I've never liked or commented till now. the completeness of the information you provide along with the straightforward approach is excellent. thank you for your time and I look forward to more of your videos that I will "like" in the future. God Bless.
Right around the 3:00 mark you can see what looks like decent energy transfer in the ballistic gel. Important to note that although you didn't have a bullet pass through you, you can still suffer other types of trauma just from impact. Especially if you end up taking multiple rounds. Make sure you buy those trauma pads.
Tried both M193 and M855 green tip out of my 16-inch bolt rifle, at 100 yards, the green tip did make deeper divots into my AR500 steel. M193 barely a scratch.
Great videos as always T9 and, it's great to see that you are well..
Thanks and a job well done as always...looks to be a good back stop in rough areas.
Great video, your content is cut above all of the similar channels. Always spot on with providing specs/info. Thanks for putting the time and effort in.
Finally a new vid. Your dial up connection is killing us lol
Steven Tenney But.....but.....AOL is the shizz!
Can imagine if this same comment was left on yeagers channel. He would probaly talk crap about wheres your video. That's why I love this channel.
Yet again, a very well made, detailed, and informative video. I am glad you are still doing videos, even if they are few and far between. Keep them coming just whenever you can do so and we all appreciate it!
Splatter to the chin :) ouch!
Love your reviews TN. That has to be one of if not the most informative to the point BA review on TH-cam.
Always good to have another video from you. Impressive science approach as always. Good documentation, good control of variables, good shot placement to avoid interference with craters from earlier shots, and a good way to show its effectiveness. Glad you are feeling better. Watch this heat and humidity!
I always get a crack out of calling green tips "armor penetrating" rounds. I think we have a lot of youtubers to thank for that. People who have thousands upon thousands of subs talking out their ass.
Some people did some video's as pure sarcasm about it being AP. But the actual community going on and on about it being an AP round is something that scares people who don't know any better.
I stopped watching a few youtube channels over them giving poor information and using scare tactics about un-researched political BS as well.
Glad you keeping to the facts, as usual.
Sarin Highwind Uhhh, the ATF and DOJ called them armor penetrators.
Iam TheOsprey Well yeah, Scare tactics.
Sarin Highwind These guys around where I live were selling "armor grade" steel targets. They said "we've tested it at 50 yards with a 50 BMG and it didn't even scratch it. But don't shoot it with them green tips cause they'll hum through it like hot butter." I just laughed my way back to the car.
Travis Wells
They tried that but it never went through probably because it was shown that they don't really penetrate all that well.
+Travis Wells the pistol is perfectly legal. If you want to attach a buttstock however, you have to have SBR paperwork
Great video showing the actual ability of plays and rounds.
I see my question was answered..glad to hear your health is good and your feeling well..excellent review.
Even after all this time, nobody beats you when it comes to presenting these things.
The right amount of fact with that perfect dash of sarcasm and amusing side talk. :D
Good to hear you're feeling better.
It's very interesting to note in both TNOutdoors test and my own testing how close in velocity M193 & M855 are from the 16" barrel guns, especially with 1:9 rifling. Everyone always says how the "green tip" is so much slower than M193 ball, but from a 16" carbine the difference is usually only ~50 fps on average. My personal favorite 5.56 service load is still the 77gr Sierra OTM from a 20" gun. Field ballistics on this load at combat distances are excellent, much improved over M193 or M855.
Thank god, tnoutdoors9 is back in business. Hope you are doing good and healthy. Greetings out of Germany.
Really great to have you back!
Great production. Explains things very well
Tim, good to see you are back posting videos. Hope work is allowing you some free time to keep informative content coming. Thanks for the video.
Nice video but I'm disappointed you didn't hit it with any AP 5.56 or 7.62. I'd love to see how much damage they do, and whether anything gets into the gel!
i enjoy your reviews concise, well thought out, and objective. Thanks
Good to see fresh work from you!
Glad you're back making videos.
Very awesome review and ballistics. Thorough as always. Thanks for the great video!
Exceptional presentation as always. Very informative.
Always nice to see new content from you. Loved seeing you on Big John's show.
Love all your videos TN, Seems like you've found the best balance of life/health/work/and youtube!
Another great compilation of information.
Thanks for the video TN, you keep making them and I'll keep watching them.
Thanks for this testing.... that is one tough product.
Great to see a new vid from you again! -Ranger
Good to see your back. Thank you
Happy you got another video out man!
As a fan of both AR500 armor and your ballistic tests I found this video highly informative and entertaining. I would like to see you test the plate with some harder hitting rounds in future videos, or perhaps the same rounds out of your long barreled AR. Keep up the great work!
Very informative & well done video as always. Glad to see you are back.
Tnoutdoors9 I sure hope that you continue making videos especially the ammo testing but on a lighter note I am glad to hear that you are doing well
I love your diction and how you present info. Thank you for taking the time to do these vids.
Great video, nice to see you posting again.
Glad to see you back on the channel. Really enjoy your video's.
Nice test and great to see you back out there! Hope you get to test that gel block out with something else soon!
P.S. I am glad you chose the M4 size barrel, good thought and choice
Interesting My 30-06 WW11 armor piercing rounds zip right through that type of armor.
Level III+ is Not designed for 30-06 black tip. Need Level IV
Glad to see you back making videos. I would love to see some buckshot ballistic gel test. James Yeager did a great series buckshot patterns with different barrels. I was surprised to see the tight pattern of the reduced recoil loads. Can you make some videos comparing different buckshot loads?
BLANK MAN Not likely to happen, unfortunately, as I'm planning to wrap it up here by the end of August. This "catalog" is 99% finished. I really need to get focused on some other projects.
Great to see a professional, accurate body armor test.
On another channel, they rig the test by using an (unrealistic) longer barrel, overpressure rounds at half the distance.
Their "penetration" consisted of tiny deformed fragments, NOT intact rounds.
It's easy to scare people (and pump-up your viewer hits) with a biased test. Thanks for not doing that.
@@user-lp3cf5yn5b I don't have the exact sales numbers, but somewhere less than 5% of all AR owners have a barrel greater than 18". The most common rifle-length barrel is 16", while the trend is more toward pistol-length carbine barrels of 10-12".
That said, it is unrealistic and dangerous to infer that someone with a common length AR barrel will have the same penetration results as a rig with a 20" barrel (which statistically almost no one has). Math is your friend ;)
Educational ,informative, a perfect video....Thanks
Great video! I'm glad to see a new one from you again! I've always liked how well made and thought out your videos are.
Its always a good day when tnoutdoors9 uploads a new video.
I hope all is well and hope that your back. I really miss your video's.
What would be cool to do is to put a piece of ballistic gel on top of the plate to simulate your chin or your arms and see if it catch fragments.
Demolition Ranch has done several variants of that, including with the .50 BMG. That's entertaining. But in general the coating on that armor plate does a great job of catching fragments, at least from rated rounds.
Weta I was thinking during the video that it would have been a good idea to place a cardboard box in front of the plate (opened on two sides, so as not to disturb the bullet), in order to show the fragmentation/spalling pattern.
Twangnbang did that with a box over the plate. It pretty much cut the box from all the fragmentation.
s from east TN! Glad to see another video from you. Hope things are good for you and glad to see you healthy again. You had me quite concerned. Wish you had more time to make more videos, but I understand how life is. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to the next one.
Now try that again with the 25.433" barrel of the L86.
Another good vid. Nice to see u posting. Ty.
Thorough, excellent review!!
The bonus for this video is that now you have another steel target!
I think my 24” bull barreled ar wouldn’t play nice with any steel plates..... I need yo test that theory!!
Thanks. As always an excellent, informative video!
This is exactly what I'm interested in! Glad you made this video. I'm still subscribed, but I thought you might be done with TH-cam. Very infotaining video. I hope you stay in the mix bringing quality material.
Good testing, don't think I've seen a plate strapped to ballistics gel before. Hope you test it again with something that might have a chance at pass through because I'm curious about what kind of wound channel that would produce.
Welcome back!
I would love to see this test out of a 20inch 1/7 twist barrel. Thank you for your videos.
Glad your healthy... another great vid.
Thank you for such scientifically presented videos. It sure is refreshing!
This video is very well done. Thank you!
would love to see a gel test of these 3 cartridges. maybe even a barrier test? wood, glass etc.. a brick 4inch in front of gel. interested to see what the MK318 and that sp do. thx for vid.
Wow, awesome video. The best thing about this? Now you can tell your wife you "need" some new rifles in 7.62 x39 and .308. :)
AK-47 will not Pierce
Level 3+ is rated for that aswell, need 300wm or 30-06 for some action
Thanks again for another fantastic video
Very well done. Nice change of pace. If you plan to stop by On Target in Murfreesboro, I would like to know so I can meet you. You do the best videos. Hickok 45 does some nice ones, too, but likes to talk more than necessary, sometimes. As a retired teacher, I know about the gift of gab syndrome.
Murfreesboro_Jim I don't get by there so much these days; Murfreesboro traffic. You are more likely to see me at Outpost Armory. LOL on the Hickok comment. I'm in sales and do everything possible NOT to talk.....imagine that.
You should have done at least one round in the same spot... But thanks for the video glad to see someone reputable test the company's claims
Nothing, nothing, nothing and nothing. Keep it up, you're proving how excellent modern body armour is.
Would love to see a Mk318 gel test. Or better yet, a comparison gel test between M193, Mk262, and Mk318.
+myantispambox MK318 in gel is on the project board; at least 100 yards, perhaps longer.
T9 cool video but there is a lot of argument whether or not a 20" barrel will provide a pass through would love to see an answer on that once and for all.. and thanks for your time glad your back sir!
Patriot Outdoors I responded to that question to some degree, in the description. I foresee this coming up about every 12th comment, and it's a good point. Thanks
Impressive video! I would like to see the patterns that were produced in the gel by the impact. Interesting.
i understand why you used a 16" barrel but that, combined with pushing the target out to 50 feet, pretty much guaranteed that even the M193 wouldn't penetrate. For penetrating steel armor, velocity is king...
Well done as always.
id be curious to see you test various .308 rounds :)
+tnoutdoors9 your final video? Man I thought I had heard this a while back. This makes me seriously sad. I have been watching your videos for sometime now. I can honestly say you've been my favorite reviewer to watch. Your videos are always informative and theway you present them are at the top. Thank you for all of your great videos and the time and money you've spent through the years. I'll keep dreaming for an eventual return. If your ever in Oklahoma let me know I'll buy you a beer 🍺.
That's was what it is rated up too so it should stop the 39 and the 7.62×51 is a .308
Been starving for one of your videos!
Shoot all that ammunition at 10ft like Safe Life Defense did on their level IV plates :). Yes, all rounds were to 1 plate not several.
Sad to here that you are moving on.
You will be missed!
I liked the video, Good to know thanks
OKAY ENOUGH ALREADY! But that doesn't stop me from using solid copper HP's!
Another great video, thanks :)
Family first! Give us videos when you can; we'll take what we can get.
Spall is better than being penetrated by the projectile, but that spall lining didn't really seem to do much. For this type of armor in the future(that fragments and repels projectiles rather than wrapping them up and "catching" them), can you please toss some gel around the periphery of the plate to get a better understanding of what your arms/chin/wang-dang-doodle are in for? The anti-spall coating is one of the "features" of this and similar plates. Having some way to measure its effectiveness vs. other manufacturers would help in making an informed decision. Thanks for your continued work to inform the firearms community. I really value all the time and money you put in to producing these.
sp22m3 Good info and suggestion for gauging protection (in particular the wang-dang-doodle) but the Mossberg 930 review on 8-14-15 was my final video. I have commented on this at the "ABOUT" channel page.
Awww dang. Sorry to see you bringing things to an end for now. I wish you the best moving forward.
Great vid as always. I've never personally cared if they ban green tip or not. There is literally nothing M855 will penetrate that M193 will not. Add to that the fact that M193 does better against non-armored targets than M855 and it just makes the green tip nothing special for me. Speed is what defeats body armor when talking about a small/lightweight projectile. In fact, when I ordered my plates for my personal carrier I ordered an extra to shoot at in the yard. From my ARs it stopped all 5.56, but from my 24" bolt gun M193 went clean through when even M855 did not. The plate also stopped 147gr FMJ .308" bullet at 2840fps. I did not own my SoCom16 at that time so I couldn't crank the .308 bullet faster (I was using .300 Savage brass) but with a .308 case only offering slightly more volume for powder I still don't think it would have defeated it. On the other hand I loaded some .30-06 AP pull downs on the .300 Sav brass around 2790-2800fps and that went through the level 3 as expected.
Love to see some comparison tests with the new lightweight dyneema plates.
I trust my life to this armor every day....
Nice video! I had the same results, in fact green tip and mk318 wouldn't even go through the regular Level III from ar500armor.
I pushed a 22-250 vmax through that plate. Maybe you could try a 50gr vmax in .223 from a 20" if you're looking to perforate it.
The Wound Channel I've tested the AE 50gr Tipped Varmit, and out of 16" barrel it's right around 3000 fps avg. I might be close at with a 20" barrel. I wonder what a 40gr Hornady TAP load will do. Those are roughly 3400 fps from a 16" barrel.
Could you test these 50 tp 40 grain bullet at high speed against lvl3+?
Another great video...thanks!
nice video, an interesting watch as the reason im subscribed. but how about some tests on why a nation would need to purchase body armor. or why so many different variations of 5.56 ammunition are available to purchase. ;)
excellent video! Thank you!
Interesting, but where did all the fragments go? If you were wear that when hit you would have fragments in your chin throat and dick. Normal body armor absorbs all the frags, even from the edge or even the back of the plate. I would have see a test with jell all around the edges to believe it works. Early Iraqi body armor was made like this. Did not fair well.
You should run your DPMS heavy barrel setup against it to see how it fairs. It seems like everyone runs 16" carbines against plates because it is a common threat. I've seen very few videos in the inter-toobs with 20" barrels
MugenAlt236 I addressed that with a long rant in the video description. That's just it, most people don't even consider the 20" barrel, which also has to do with what the companies market to us. That was obvious after spending two days on the exhibit floor at NRA Nashville and visiting every manufacturer on the floor. The trend is toward shorter barrels and using lighter components when possible. I've had suggestions to use my 24" barrel with the Green Tip, which is yet a smaller demographic of users.
Another GREAT vid....thanks
I noticed that m855 had a higher velocity than m193 which is very strange. Any ideas on why that could be? Loved the video btw!
Love your videos.
Thanks! Well done!
Shoot it with a .50 BMG or .338 LM once... that would be interesting.