Brian: Now I am going to tell you a story of poor catholic minority, misunderstood and persecuted. Also Brian: His church is built on a grave of first nation babies.
I'm an atheist and agree. It's cartoonish. Just a nod to hardrock and heavy metal history. He's a satanist the same way a horror film director is a serial killer..
@@OrthoLou like I said, it's entertainment and they don't do satanic rituals (which by the way us catholics invented). And how can you justify our Catholic rituals? What makes you think that every catholic rite is good? And if you are spiritually rattled by a rock/metal band then your faith is weak.
For someone who was “substantially immersed in metal” you have no idea about what black metal is or where it comes from. Ghost is nowhere near a black metal band. They do take influence from black metal, but musically or ideologically they’re very far from it.
If you catch up on their lore, you'll see that everything about it is humorous. He's mocking Satanism just as much as he's mocking Catholicism, and it's all hilarious. Whenever a Papa dies and is immediately replaced in a live show, or when Copia wrecks his tricycle, none of it is supposed to be taken seriously. They're an awesome band with a dash of great satire. Coming from someone whom grew up Catholic, but is now agnostic.
yeah right?? i mean he made some interesting points here and there but at the end.. i was like?? you know christianity is THE biggest religion? that is literally KNOWN for its missionaries?
@@lisam22 LOLOLOL Right? Far to many Christians....like the guy who made this video....like to pick and choose far to much about which parts of the religion they want to talk about and which parts they want to ignore. It's a huge reason why I never became religious.
@@lisam22 you're extremely misinformed about the inquisition. You should do your own research, Brian actually has a good video on it. And even if Christians did persecute others at some point in history, do two wrongs make a right?
I am a former Catholic who now sees there is more than one path to Spirit. I love Ghost and listen to as many Tobias Forge's interviews as I can because I like to see how his mind works. He is a deep thinker and sees a wider view of spirituality, the world, and many other matters. I have heard him say he sees the devil as a metaphor- a symbol- for freedom to be who you are meant to be. I like that the fact that Ghost's songs call out all facets of Christianity, not just Catholicism for inducing fear in their followers/parishioners in order to make them follow their teachings. The devil is a man-made concept that was originally based on the pagan god of nature, Pan, who was half-goat, half-man. He is called a Faun or Satyr (depending on the Roman/Greek/Celtic folklore one follows) The Christians felt they had to convert the pagans, so they turned Pan into a mainfestian of their fallen angel, Lucifer. I have heard Tobias say he does believe in a higher/supreme being. I will also be looking up that Psychology Today article you meantioned later today.
All fair comment here. Listened to a couple of Forges interviews with Livewire...he is not an atheist and thinks "you're being lied to" when it comes to the traditional faith system. He believes in and has experienced "a presence" in which he believes. He's an articulate and plausible character.
I used to love them but...they're not likeSl Slayer, who portrays satanic stuff as scary and something we want to avoid, while Ghost makes seem charming and alluring. That's why I think they're dangerous, they make satanism seem appealing.
@@OrthoLou and...? That's exactly what christianism does with the Bible. God is love? Really? Listening so much about God makes me wanna hear about his "so evil" enemy.
@@joedwyer3297 it's a good thing he included a disclaimer to say he is not playing to perform or show off. That gets him completely off the hook. But saying he's out of practice... ;-)
@@AlDunbar: Yeah, when he did that (saying he was out of practice) I thought to myself, "Brian, Brian, you're such a unique guy! Don't be a cliche! Don't say exactly the same thing that I and every other frustrated amateur musician says right before playing something for other people!" But of course we all do it, because we're all insecure about our playing, whether we have reason to be, or not.
Oh boy. Where do I even start? First of all, there is no such thing as being "objectively offensive". Offense is all in the eye of the beholder. What one person finds offensive, another won't. There are plenty of religious folks who listen to bands like Ghost and aren't offended one bit. If an artist is enough to shake a person's faith, it wasn't very strong in the first place. Secondly, Catholics are not a "visible minority". Google the term "visible minority". Hint: it's associated with race. So yeah, Catholics don't qualify. Moreover, Catholics aren't a minority group full stop. There's 1.2 billion of you guys for goodness sake! As for Tobias being a freemason? Literally the only proof of that (and I use the word "proof" loosely) is the ex nameless ghouls' statement after they lost the court case. Most likely? They were sore losers making excuses. As far as I know, it's never been verified that either the judge or Tobias were/are freemasons let alone that they knew each other (if anyone has any evidence to the contrary that I'm unaware of, feel free to let me know). Incidentally, one only has to look at their disgusting statements made about Tobias' deceased brother to determine the quality of the ex-ghouls' characters. But anyway, even if Tobias IS a freemason, who the hell cares? Despite what conspiracy theory people on the internet may have told you, freemasons are NOT a "secret society" (or at least they aren't at this point in history). They're a very well known, global fraternity organisation that focuses on building the moral fibre and discipline of its members (for example, how they're involved in charity and so on?). It's basically a metaphorical extension of what masonry itself originally was - building things. Tobias Forge isn't hanging out in Swedish lodges taking blood oaths in exchange for record sales. Live in reality. On the subject of "the devil". I assure you, there's plenty of believers who DO view Satan in the stereotypical way that Tobias describes. I've met them. They exist. Now, in fairness to religion, it is largely due to pop culture that the red guy with horns and a pitchfork archetype has become synonymous with what the devil is. This is one reason why Tobias is always careful to point out in interviews that there's a difference between the "biblical devil" and the "pop cultural devil". He views the devil on his own terms as informed by both religion and pop culture. Like most so-called "Satanists", the devil to him is a character. It's a metaphor for certain traits that exist within the human psyche. He uses his interpretation of this (and other religious concepts) to critique and parody religion and mankind's relationship to it. That's literally all he's doing (well, that and making some great rock music). If you're offended by it, that's on you. You being a snowflake and branding it as "hate-speech" isn't Ghost's problem. It's yours. P.S. Apu should have never been removed from The Simpsons
I was so appalled when he said that freemasonry is something that you need to make a blood oath to get in, and that they threaten their members with a brutal death (????) if they reveal anything. I'm rather close to freemasonry and that was fucking new to me, considering most freemasons I know are those 'christian god-fearing patriot' men. And right after that he started talking about recharacterizing a position you're against by using absurd terms. Also, as far as I know, Tobias never said that it was just "trolling", that's one way to casually dismiss what he has said in all these years of interviews, masked and otherwise
Here's my take on Ghost. The reason why i feel they're great at tap dancing around satanical themes is because it's just a story. Just because billions of people around the world have enacted a religious following behind the story, doesn't will it into existence, but because people believe to be, they resent when it's challenged. Ghost have mastered the art of Mockery while at the same time showing you just how foolish it is to believe in something without seeing it for what it truly is. A story
“It’s the truth of candor shown through a prism of deceit. It’s the continence of bishops with their choir boys en-suite. It’s the tongue selling adulation that licks to no avail. It’s the noise of the righteous dogma that hides the handmaid’s tale.” I’d argue Ghost isn’t anti-Catholic or anti-Christian, but anti weaponized organized religion. There’s nothing more dangerous than telling a group of people that have been the majority for ages (and still are if you look at the breakdown of how many Catholics/Christians there are worldwide) that they are being marginalized or losing influence. There’s a lot of money and power to be made off of that kind of insecurity and uncertainty. Talking God and oppression at the pulpit or podium to rally the base while abusing that power for personal or political gain is not that uncommon throughout history or even today. So many of their songs are about that kind of manipulation, abuse, and the use of Christianity as a shield against criticism. Also, here’s an excerpt from that Psychology Today article you glossed over. “He claims he supports the right to believe in whatever one chooses, and believes in the existence of Jesus as a person. "I do believe in the idea of a historic person named Jesus that was a kind of chill dude who was just telling people to chill and be nice to each other. And he got penalized for that," Forge states. "I definitely believe that tormenting other people because of the Bible and for that to be - for lack of a better word, Gospel ... I think that is not very nice." That segment came off as a fallacy of exclusion or “cherry picking” on your part, which is also a manipulative tactic. Tobias being a Freemason is also under debate as that was alleged by his ex-band mates after losing a court case in order to gain an appeal, which has yet to go through. If evidence comes to light during that appeal, then feel free to make that claim as anything more than conjecture. Edit: I almost forgot. Ghost is about as black metal as ABBA. (That’s not an insult. I love them both.) Tobias’s former band Repugnant was closer to black metal (death metal). I’m not into gatekeeping music, but I will call out someone claiming to approach an argument from the basis of knowledge on a subject when they can’t get the basics right because it doesn’t support their argument.
The “handmaid’s tale/tail” line is quite interesting, as obviously Handmaids Tale is set in a ultra-conservative Christianity dystopia, and at every turn the people in power utilize the Bible as a figurative hammer against each other. Kaisarion’s line had me rewatch and catch up on the show, and it’s very obvious that he used this line in the song - “the righteous dogma that hides the Handmaids Tale”. Give it a watch if you haven’t.
I can see the points being made here but they're not made from a full understanding of the intent that Forge has given. And never have I seen where Forge said that he is mocking Catholics. He simply likes the aesthetics of it. Forge has stated he is a fan of horror films. Particularly classic horror films. This comes off in a lot of his music videos and artwork on the Ghost albums. This fuses with a concept of a "Satanic pope"and church. He has said before that the Catholic art and style is very grand and powerful feeling, so it's something he took visual inspiration from. But those things are not intended to mock, it's simply how his creativity is expressed. Also, what evidence is there besides a passing statement from another band member that he is involved in Freemasonry? Do you know the personality of his old band mates and what they were like? Do you understand the context of their words and comprehend their humorous undertones? Do you actually know what Freemasonry is and what they believe in? Where did you gain that knowledge? Do you know any freemasons?
Lots of assumptions made in his commentary. If that’s how he feels that’s okay. But to preach to others their soul will be lost for tongue in cheek theatre is kinda silly.
Abandoning a type of music that you’re drawn to for the sake of religion is absolutely insane. No individuality allowed? No independent thought? As a former catholic and life long “heavy music” fan and guitarist, I say fuck that. It’s not hypocritical to love Christ on one hand and listen to absurdly anti religious/satanic black metal on the other hand. The ears like what they like.
And Ghost isn't anywhere near black metal in any form either... Calling Forges description of his belief for a pyramide scheme or implying that a fun story/persona cannot be done seriously, since you would have to believe in the devil for it to work, is all such major fallacies. The gasslighting and strawman practices he says Forge himself is doing..
What a cold take. Hedonism isn't Christian. The modern cult of pleasure isn't compatible with Catholicism. You say 'former Catholic' but man, what did you ever understand of it??
It depends. On one hand I get what you are saying. It’s about how the music makes you feel and think, or it could be just for fun. But it’s important to pay attention to that. I have a lot of trouble listening to some of the music I used to before returning to Catholicism because the lyrics promote degeneracy and I just can’t mesh with that anymore.
Not a type of music. The band its self. You obviously didn't bother listen to Brian playing Master of Puppets by Metallica right here in this very video.
Honestly Brian I would love to hear your opinion on a band called Demon Hunter. They are a great band that affirms Christian beliefs in their songs but is not preachy about it. They are one of the best Christian metal bands I have ever heard
This is all starting to sound like the 80's, when rock lyrics were bad, and were leading children to be satanists. Going to a ghost show is a fun night out, listening to amazing music and seeing an amazing stage show. Are you going to call Dave Grohl a satanist, because he donned a mask and sat behind the drum kit at a few shows? Of course not, why, because it is just a show.
Honestly, a lot of stuff in the 80s DID overly sexualize people. And it's only gotten worse, now we have Cardia B singing about her WAP... Look around, has lust not seriously taken our culture by the throat? And if you're simply not a believer, and think Ghost is a fun night out, then have at it. But Catholics shouldn't be supporting stuff like this, no matter how cool or catchy it sounds.
@@lisam22 going off of your comments throughout this thread (you're very triggered over someone not liking a band that you do), you don't know much about Christianity or how a Christian should "sound."
Not to be that person but Ghost isn’t that deep. They put on the schtick to criticize how higher power in catholic groups is often exploited and used to take advantage of others. I understand some people may be put off by this, but when you’re going out of your way to try and fight something that doesn’t matter, you just look stupid. They have a schtick, and you outright trying to say that the band is trying to convert people also makes you looks stupid, because that same argument can be used for bands who make predominantly Christian based music. But, you guys trying to say that Ghost is almost dangerous because their schtick is because I’m convinced it’s because you don’t want to come face to the face with the critiques it’s making on Catholicism.
Plus, it’s not like fans of Ghost are FORCED to like Ghost.. They’re catchy, they’re a good band. If you’re really upset about the criticisms that Tobias is making, then you’re literally the people he’s talking about. You guys want to flip it and keep attention away from yourselves, that’s why you said that he was part of some secret society and made some blood oath. Not to mention, you’re falling into a trap, you’re falling for little breadcrumbs for you to pick up so you look like an idiot. You’re following that trail, going straight into his trap, his trap being you criticizing his schtick because it conflicts with your beliefs.
If you really know Ghost and Tobias you can see that it is a parody of the Church, simply with the aim of entertaining. Ghost doesn't make a hate speech It simply makes fun of some things about Catholicism, this being black humor, it is not meant to offend or generate hatred. I have been a fan of Ghost for 6 years, and I can assure you that fans are not alienated to hate the Church or anything similar, it is more, the majority end up having more knowledge about it. On the subject of the trials, he won because the former ghouls wanted more money in addition to fame (because at that time all identities were secret) and as tobias is the owner of Ghost, so he fired them and that's where the reason he won, he did nothing wrong, since then, there has been no trouble with any member. As for the subject of Satanism, Tobias has said on many occasions that he does not believe in any of that, it is simply his way of being able to give a message since. As for the subject of Satanism, Tobias has said on many occasions that he does not believe in any of that, it is simply his way of being able to give a message Since most of the songs have a hidden meaning behind, a meaning that normally has nothing to do with the Church, but with our current society.
Thats very true, but at the same time, when you have 10,000 people chanting "Hail Satan" (Year Zero)... I'm not really sure thats a good thing. Can't lie though, I really dig Ghost.. Even though I feel a little guilty about it lol.
@@Frankenberry Actually the official lyrics are "Hell Satan." I dig Ghost, but I consider myself atheist, so I really don't feel guilty for liking them since I personally don't think God or Satan exist. I also listen to and enjoy Christian rock/metal bands, and other bands that worship gods like Thor (like Amon Amarth). In my mind, it's all fiction and fantasy. And Ghost puts on one helluva show :)
So..... Ghost is my fav band. And I have heard criticisms from every direction. You're the first one to give their opinion/view in a calm and respectful manner. Thank you
Presenting something in a calm and respectful manner is meaningless. It is just dressing for the content. Tone of the criticism is not important. Honestly, while I could forgive some completely nonsensical false equivalencies (like equating christians to muslims when it comes to persecution) or outright lies (like calling christians a minority), the whole thing takes a nosedive after he starts spouting conspiracy theories about the masons. Sorry, but the reason why the clergy and religious leaders where targeted during every revolution is because religious leaders were always dirty whores sucking people dry. Of course they are some of the first people to be lined up against the wall, as well as they should be. Blaming it on some secret society of powerful men is such a slap in the face to any serious historical analysis and taking away the agency from the people who rebelled against the bloodsuckers in the first place.
Abandoning a type of music that you’re drawn to for the sake of religion is absolutely insane. No individuality allowed? No independent thought? As a former catholic and life long “heavy music” fan and guitarist, I say fuck that.
Or he just didn't care for it anymore once he converted..? It's possible you know. I cut out a lot of music once I got back into my faith, but still listen to a lot of metal that isn't problematic. Metallica, just one example, is perfectly fine. But I'll never listen to Ghost again because I think their lyrics are sick, and they mock my faith. Would you listen to someone who mocked you?
"they present themselves as a kind of mockery of Catholicism, through their branding, their costumes, and their lyrics" Hmm, what does my reason tell me about this... Big brain time.
Tells me that this guy can't handle satire as well as he probably thinks. I have to respect his intelligence and the sheer amount of research and dedicated study he almost certainly went through, though.
I want to bring to your attention to the misinformation present in this video. First of all, there is no concrete proof that Tobias Forge is a freemason, other than an offhand claim by someone who sued him who was hoping that the claim would grant him a retrial in their legal dispute. To say that this connection "came in handy" for Forge makes no sense because it actually did cause a retrial, which was a setback for Forge in the dispute. Additionally, the claim was that Forge belonged to the same masonic group as the judge, which was the Fourth Division of the Swedish Rite. The Swedish Rite Masons are known very specifically to admit Christian ONLY members, and the Fourth Division is the most rare and exclusive section of it. It is unlikely that a man who has vocally rejected organized religion and uses Satanic themes in his band would be allowed to be a Swedish Freemason. For you to say that he's a Swedish Freemason would mean that he is currently a practicing Christian, which then would go against the rest of the commentary in your video as well. Secondly, Forge's band is a satirical criticism of organized religion after growing up in a majority-Christian country and experiencing religious trauma. This is not at all comparable to a non-Muslim man making racist and Islamophobic caricatures (in 11:10 of your video). That comedic act is not "mocking a culture" but rather simply Islamophobia. Forge's satirical commentary on Christianity is stemming from his own experiences, it's not "good humor" or "hatred". It's clever rhetoric about serious issues within organized religion that he himself suffered. If an ex-Muslim man made satirical commentary on issues within Muslim communities, then that isn't mocking, it's critical thinking on things that pertain specifically to him, and perhaps is cathartic. Ghost and Forge's vision is purely advocating for free choice, individuality, self awareness, and rejecting the idea of religions being forced on others. He uses Satanism as the vehicle for such messages, as it has been used as such for decades. His lyrics are very transparent in this regard and never have I or most other Ghost fans have ever thought Ghost is mere "trolling". They're complex, rhetorical and quite clever, using Biblical and historical allegories and metaphors. Most of us are also people who suffered from religious trauma and find peace within Forge's messages of autonomy and rejection of the norms. The aspect of Satanism is largely surface-level, and if you truly engage with the band's music the societal commentary and metaphor becomes clear. There is a lot of internal bias I think you need to reconcile with before making videos on bands like Ghost, otherwise you may spread some harmful misinformation. I also think there is irony in you preaching about Forge needing to be transparent with his audience when in fact it is you who is not being transparent with your audience here. I hope that this message can help you learn more about Ghost and understand on a deeper level what their intention and meaning is.
A lot of projection in this reaction towards Ghost and Tobias when in fact, most if not all could be said about Christianity. That's the great thing about choice. I appreciate the video and the perspective but I don't agree with the finger pointing and the lack of self awareness when it comes to manipulation.
Nahhh, Ghost is just trolling. Tobias' views on the world from what I have seen in his interviews is no different than interviews you would've seen from any current metal band. Rob Halford of Judas Priest, no doubt has plenty of sincere and genuine angst against Christianity, but Tobias, is from a totally different generation and from Sweeden of all places, a very secular nation. He has never lived in a insane religious country like America nor is he from the same generation that enforced evangelical tyranny upon the population. If you want to see a genuine musician that has sincere gripes against Christianity read the "Long Road Out of Hell" by Marilyn Manson. Tobias is full of shit and is only creating these Emeritus/Cardinal characters because it's an homage to black metal and it sells concert tickets. You're out of you mind if you seriously think there's any depth to Tobias' work spans thicker than his wallet. 100% simulation pop metal, but it's good 100% simulation pop metal.
Very well said! I love the satire. Everyone down playing the ART that goes into the band, the lyrics, the music itself, just wants to argue for the sake of arguing.
@@BrianHoldsworth You just used a ridiculous comparison in an attempt to humorously troll someone's view on your message. As Daffy Duck would say: "It is, to laugh."
When it comes to Catholic music, there are very few bands that are worth listening to, but I recently discovered Within Thy Wounds doing a blackgaze kind of sound. And their lyrics are straightforward faith-filled without being cheesy. I’d recommend them to anyone fixated on the dark corners of the metal world to show them light.
Check out Katholicus (you probably have to look them up on TH-cam, Illuminandi, and Theandric. There are also many great Christian metal bands who aren't exclusively Catholic like those 3. I'm a power metal guy, so Theocracy is my personal favorite.
Black Label Society is fronted by Zakk Wylde, a practicing Catholic who wrote a song about the Blessed Virgin Mary. Also, one of Sabaton's biggest songs is about the Swiss Guards defending the Pope in "The Last Stand". There's some great songs for Catholics out there in metal.
I have a Ph.D. in religious studies, with a specialization in biblical studies, am a department chair and professor, and have been doing this for more than 20 years. Ghost is my favorite band. Am I an unthinking person?
Title dropping is unimpressive. I took it to mean as Catholics and Christians it would be unthinking to listen to a band like this. If you are an unbeliever or maybe even agree with them, there would not be any conflict of values.
To this day i love heavy metal symphonic death and all kinds. As long as its hard fast. Makes me feel alive. Plus its far better musical composition then what we call popular.
I'm a Christian and I listen to hard rock music and Ghost is one of my favorites. If Tobias has a satanic agenda with his music it doesn't effect me one bit. I see it as entertainment and lots of fun having seen Ghost live many times. People who are seriously into Satanism will view the band differently and take his message seriously. Tobias has said he isn't a devil worshipper but is open to the idea of a Supreme being but wanting more proof that he/she exists. I agree that many horrible things have occurred in the name of a religion and I don't understand that as it seems hypocritical. You mentioned Jeff Dunham and his Achmed character which was created in response to the terror attacks. It isn't necessarily aimed at the Islamic religion but rather from the view of a terrorist doing suicide bombings in order to please Allah. Again that is hypocritical. I don't take comics or bands seriously and they aren't corrupting me at all. My faith is strong enough to ward off "evil" influences.
“ My Faith is strong enough…” be careful when you say that because even St.Peter who had the same Faith as you was rebuked by Jesus and was called “Satan” because of that kind of Faith. Humility is key 🔑
Justification is a powerful thing. "I don't take comics or bands seriously and they aren't corrupting me at all. My faith is strong enough to ward off "evil" influences." this statement is scary. You are not in as much control over yourself as you think.
"I'm Jewish but I love reading to Mein Kampf and listening to Nazi bands. People see them as antisemitic, and of course, Nazis did bad things in the past, but it's fun and entertaining."
I have to say that when I first heard Ghosts Square Hammer, I loved it. Even as a Catholic, it didn’t bother me. I just thought of it as a cool sounding very catchy song. Something that reminded me a lot of Blue Oyster Cult, a band I listened to in the 80’s as a teenager. I thought of the satan aspect as just theatrics, kind of like Kiss or Alice Cooper. Then I started listening to some of their other songs as well as watching their videos. The satanic imagery and glorification was all over the place. And as suddenly as I started listening to them, I stopped. Cold turkey. From listening to stories of various Catholic Saints, I understood the devil and his losers try as hard as they can to worm their way into your life. And like roaches (literally) once they’re in it’s hard to get them out. And then the thought, that by listening to them, I’m offending and saddening God, someone I want to be with for eternity, and that I could be damning my soul, that was it. I was done with Ghost. I have to be on my guard though. Just hearing the song on your video made me want to turn them back on. I made it pass though. Thoughts of an eternity going insane over and over again in hell because you know you’ll never see God were enough to crush the urge. My final thought. Always be on your guard. Old Scratch hates you and will try anything he can to lure you away from Christ and our loving Father. God bless.
Same here once I started seeing the satanic imagery in the old rock N' roll and metal I listened to, stopped instantly, I need God above all in my life.
I’ve heard it said that “if you are a hammer, everything else is a nail.” The judge also bangs his hammer (gavel) in court when calling the court to order, but I don’t want to stand before Satan swearing an oath to him. He is not my judge; he’s only the accuser.
The essencial philosophy of Ghost is that if youre stupid religious fundamentalist, you deserve to be bothered by their music. If youre chilled and open minded, youre welcomed to enjoy them.
@@danielpavlik7242 so, anyone who has read Dante’s Inferno knows the Devil’s chilled at the bottom, they will nope right out of listening to Ghost for a prolonged period of time.
Another artist that is very similar, although much more open and brazen about it, that I used to really be into was King Diamond, and even now some of his songs occasionally pop into my head. KD is very open about being a lavean satanist (basically an atheist with a heavy dose of esotericism thrown in), and takes the often adopted approach of “if God allows bad things then God is a bad guy.” Anybody with a hint of theological understanding knows how nonsensical this position is, but sadly it’s become the default to allow “do what thou wilt” to matter more than any sense of real human teleology.
Also the part about Achmed the Dead Terrorist, yeah sure it could be seen as offensive at first that he would do that with his character. Until he literally took Achmed TO THE MIDDLE EAST and performed with him over there and was the biggest hit of his entire show! The audiences were waiting for that! They wanted to see Achmed. I'm pretty sure that when the ethnicity you're poking fun at comes, supports and loves your act, I think you've succeeded.
You are correct. I heard Jeff Dunham describe the first time he performed using Achmed in the Middle-East. The Saudis wanted him to perform using Achmed because they thought it was hilarious.
Achmed is a dead terrorist. A suicide bomber that screwed up so badly that he only managed to kill himself. That he’s Muslim-coded is more a sign of the times. If Dunham had written his material during, say, The Troubles, maybe Achmed would have been an Irish Catholic. He mocking terrorists. Not Muslims.
AS a Huge fan of Ghost, I would like to clear up a HUUUUGE misconception ... Ghost aka Tobis Forge.. is NOT a practicing " Satanist" Atheist if anything at all... While I respect your opinion., the 2 Categories you place Metal fans in to is Offensive and completely false
Many Satanists use that excuse; they're athiests and it's all just symbolism.. but the thing is...Satan is the father of LIES, so why should I believe satanists wouldn't lie about that? And Brian provided a quote where he gives Satan credit for his talent and success.
@@OrthoLou and The Catholic Church isnt Guilty of Hypocrisy and Lies??? Lets not even go there.. I grew up Hard Core Roman Italian Catholic.. I Like the the concept of having something to believe in to give one a sense of comfort , what i cannot stand is Lies and asking for Money to be accepted intto Heaven by some screaming banshee on TV on a Sunday morning, HILLSONG Scandle. Lets talk about THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tobias Forge is a SAINT compared to Benedict who sits High and Mighty in Rome, the most corrupt person in Vatican CIty... SO many Homeless people there and NO HELP from the church
Yes he is! Why do you feel so sure about topics you're ignorant of? It's all there in Square Hammer, but if that's not enough, Tobias LITERALLY says his brother died and somehow Satan then gave him (Tobias Forge) success. It's in an interview. Also Hillsong isn't Catholic.
Dominus Vobiscum my brothers and sisters, as an aging Metalhead and a Roman Catholic Seminarian, I really liked Brian's reaction to Ghost (and I really digged his jam session before the talk) I hope he does some more reactions to bands from a Catholic perspective...Pax et Bonum
I once where in the Sacristi of the parish church speaking to the Sacristan of said church, and the following was uttered: The nearer you are to the Holy and to Christ the nearer you are to Evil and to the entities of the Devil himself.❤🔥
@@1thess523 I'm good. I'm also spiritually prepared deal with the Tooth Fairy, a Chupacabra, the Mothman, the Bat-Boy, the Loch Ness Monster, and Bela Lugosi as Dracula. Did I miss anything? Maybe a unicorn or mermaid?
Guitar playing atheist metalhead here. The fact that you downpicked all of master of puppets, especially after having not played for a while, is awesome. I don’t think I’d be able to do that if I put my guitar down for a week. Sending love from Cambodia! (I live in the United States)
I don't agree that Tobias is taking it more seriously than he's letting fans believe, I think your misenterpreting that. Tobias has said that he believes in Satan in a "pop culture sense", not a physical being. So when he says he gives credit of his success to Satan you have to remember Satan (he believes) is different than the Satan that christians and Catholics believe.
Tobias has stated he likes Satan of the media, imagery, movies, songs, costumes etc. His lyrics are also a lot deeper than that, and quite often don't mean the literal devil. I'd also happily criticise all religions and put my name to it, they are all worthy of it, and none can claim any moral high ground. Being offended is also subjective, as such, noone has a right not to be offended. There are plenty of Christians here in this thread who like Ghost even if they think it mocks their beliefs. Having said all that, you seem like a pleasant thoughtful chap, and I enjoyed the vid 👌
We have very different views on things but I always loves to hear the other side. I think Ghost makes just as much fun out of "real" satanists as they do out of Christians and I don't mind people having fun with stereotypes. However secret societies like the free masons are a bit to much if he is involved with them. But then as a Swede I know which bands Tobias played in before ghost like "Onkel Dingle Berry" and they sung about gays, poop, pedofiles and retarded people ( in Swedish ) in the most immature ways so I have a hard time take anything from him serious. What is your opinion on Christian death and black metal bands? There is quite a few extremely talented very hard bands out there like Pantokrator, their song Crossroads is great.
I think people have a hard time separating criticism/parody of the church and criticism of faith. Tobias is parodying the church, which no one can even argue has had a checkered past worthy of criticism. I don't think it has anything to do with people's personal faith
How can someone seem so intelligent and wellspoken, but still miss the entire point? I assume because of a deeply ingrained idea(about christianity in this case)
In case people aren't aware, ghost have a story going on in the background with various popestars and cardinals going up the ranks. The album's also have themes around time periods and concepts like plague times and most recently occultism in the style of Alastair Crowley. Edit: the band are hugely entertaining live with every band member being a character of their own. Freemasons aren't a secret cult by the way. Their existence is well known and their practices are quite documented.
@@OrthoLou lying about what? The fact that they aren't secret and everybody knows they exist? The implication of saying that freemasons are secret is to say that they are like lizard people. They exist as some sort of shadowy whisper that only the enlightened know about? Or is the reality I can Google freemasons and come to a very official website explaining that "we are freemasons and we exist openly in the world"?
@@OrthoLou I imagine you're aware of the "socks for Satan" drive that the church of Satan run regularly too. It's entirely for the good of the homeless to make sure they get clothed and fed particularly in the winter. I don't see many Christian churches doing that despite the lofty ideals they don't uphold.
Yeah it’s all just fun and entertainment it’s like a band that also is putting on a play for the audience which is awesome because you get a show and music
I think you're thinking too much about all of this. Ghost is just good music, and if you look at it twice, they are just dressed as Scoobidoo monsters :) it's halloween, and basta... Faith is tons more than that, and as a Catholic myself, i do not see as satanism in their style and music as in bands like Watain, or Behemoth (bands i do not really like for that.)
A spirit can appear to physical senses, but is not by nature physical. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (the summary of Catholic teaching) describes angels (of which the devil is): "As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will." Paragraph 330.
Not Catholic, but a former Chaplains Assistant in the Army. Instant Sub for this video alone. Jeff Dunham is loved in the Middle East for that specific act of Achmed. I still listen to some of the heaviest of metal. As a follower of Christ Jesus, the heart is judged only.
Most misinterpreted line in the bible. It's not up to us to judge whether or not someone is saved, but we're REQUIRED to admonish people when they sin or cosume things that can put them in spiritual danger.
@@OrthoLou so you assume because I listen to Ghost that I am deserving of YOUR judgement? Only God himself can judge me. The God I grew up believing in is forgiving and kind, not full of hatred and condemning people for musical tastes. 🤣
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I am mexican, and a fan of ghost. It is true that freemasonry played a huge role in the Cristero War, and that horrible crimes were committed to the Catholic population during that time period. But here're a few clarifications: a. Catholics were NOT a minority (and still they are not). Most of the population (+80%) identifies as Roman Catholic b. At that time, the church had huge economic and political power, and in the people's minds c. Calles Law was put in effect that would make Mexico a secular state, and Catholics fought it back because they didn't want to loose their position of political and economic power Currently the church has influence over the people of Mexico, especially the poorest, and this often has negative effects on Mexican society. Every story has more than one side.
80% of the population is Catholic..? That is just false lol. Maybe like.. 33%, at the most. Nearly 8 billion people in the world, and only about 2.1 billion of them are even christian, let alone specificially catholic.
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@@OrthoLou Read again, I'm talking about Mexico. Specifically early XX century Mexico. Brian mentioned the persecution of Catholic "minorities" in places like Mexico and Spain.
Yeah, and the freemason Calles is the hero that save the defenseless Mexicans from their "superstitious" religious zealot oppressors. Yeah. That makes total sense. As if Freemasonry didn't have negative effects on Mexican society now, forget other countries. Mexico is in a more challenging place morally than ever before thanks to everything they've done to destroy Mexico's moral fiber to date
Yikes. Talk about missing the plot - If you did more thorough research on this band you'd realize nothing you said here makes any sense. And, no, sweetie, Ghost is not persecuting you and you're not a "marginalized minority" as a Catholic.
You know, I wouldn't say Ghost is mocking Catholicism, they point out the messed up and problematic things that are a part of it or happens in christian/carholic scene. E.g. instances of priests and other people in the church sexually abusing children, the cruel murders that were performed back in the day against women and people who believed different things in the name of Christianity and god, in general people who use the name of god to do all kinds of heinous, immoral things and so on and on. If you deny that catholicism / Christianity has issues and or horrible people who defend themselves by using the excuse of religion - you really do need to look into yourself.
Among some of my great grandfather's WW2 memorabilia, I found a Freemason bible. It's a Christian bible. It just has weird Masonic stuff added to the first few pages. Also I think Ghost's success being due to "embracing the devil" could be interpreted differently. His devil worshiping alter-ego/ band image is highly successful because that imagery is simply exciting and draws the eye. Both morbid curiosity and enthusiasm lead people to look and pay attention to it. It's simply success due to good marketing.
Can we give a shout out to Wytch Hazel? If you haven't heard this band, they're good. I'm not sure if the lead is catholic, but their lyrics cleverly depict the spiritual battle we're in, inviting to the winning side.
I'm not gonna say that Ghost are doing anything like deliberately trolling or trying to offend Catholics, but that it's just thematic. Catholicism is a big part of the world and has shaped much of it; Ghost are merely playing on that. Also, I'm laughing at the idea of Catholics being a minority. That's hilariously wrong. Catholicism is huge and is a part of the even larger Christian community. They are NOT a minority. If we are talking along those lines then Ghost have been punching far above their weight class for most of if not all of their career. Some of their songs are just thematic and some are actual important topics, such as Cirice which is very likely a response to religions (not accusing you or you friends personally) taking advantage of people at their weakest which is a common technique of many religions. You aren't being persecuted, dude. You are part of a community far FAR too big to be persecuted in any meaningful way.
"... but can we at least admit that to mock a community people [sic] for their most sacredly held beliefs and cultural practices for profit, is the very defining feature of everything we think of when we think of hate speech?" No.
@@HunnysPlaylists if your God is love incarnate, why does he allow the most evil concept conceived to be real? If I'm judged for merely asking this basic question, I will go there with my head. Held. High.
Very informative and inspiring reflections Brian thanks for all the great content on your channel! As a fellow journeying Catholic and fan of the metal and punk sub-culture, these were great points you raised on the potential subconscious or vocational intent of this music. I still very much appreciate the musical aspect of metal and in fact have been listening to Ghost's recent album but we always have to be mindful of the intention of the artist and I keep Ghost and Tobias Forge in my prayers if he is on his own journey as well since he is a very talented artist and musician. I am also mindful of the more extreme intent of other subgenres like the Scandinavian black metal especially the Norwegian stave church burnings that resulted from actions of this community. It is very saddening to see passion in the subculture result in violent acts towards any community. There are tons of secular metal artists who think very profoundly of their lyrics and the complexity of the medium it is presented in (I can cite Gojira, Tool, Megadeth or even the late Chuck Schuldiner of Death which had rather existential reflective lyrics relative to the death metal medium). And of course on the opposite side of the spectrum legendary metal bands with extremely positive messages as others have mentioned in the comments including Demon Hunter, Living Sacrifice, Stryper, As I Lay Dying, Mortification, Extol, Narnia, the list goes on. It is important to appreciate the beauty of art across mediums but again being discerning with the artist's intent and separating the wheat and the weeds. I would say the same applies for being discerning on other mediums of art like books or films especially horror movies. There are a lot of ways Catholics can reflect on how to engage and empathize with the artists and communities driving such messages. For a film example, Robert Egger's The Witch is an example of a masterfully executed movie but unfortunately driving a blatantly satanic message vs. directors or films that can be equally as masterful in terms of medium, intent and message like Terrence Malick's Tree of Life or Scorsese's Silence. It would be great to cover more reflections with regards to art and Catholicism keep up the great content and God bless everyone during this Lenten season!
What are your thoughts on Christian metal and rock? I find the lyrics and the aggressive sound very helpful to deal with stress, temptation and giving me strength to fight against temptation and hard times while preaching in a way at the same time. Red, war of ages, wolves at the gate are some great bands.
I agree with this. We as Christian can't always listen to super soft and calming music in times when we need strength and anger against sin to prevail against it. I think angry music that's angry about the right stuff can certainly be edifying.
@@CGMiller thanks completely agree too. If we are fighting and struggling against temptation, the devil or hard times we need that aggressive power to fight back.
Wasn't it the catholic church that suddenly proclaimed a couple of years ago that hell doesn't exist? Does the church even know then what/whom satan is, or will this character be changed maybe next year or so?
No, the Catholic Church did not proclaim that and it would be impossible for it to do that because the Church cannot change dogma. Even if the Pope himself explicitly said so, it would not change Catholic teaching. The Pope would simply be denounced as a heretic.
Maybe I’m overthinking it, but listened to that Mary on a Cross song for a few days like all freaking day long for almost a week and I started making awful out of character decisions and could barely even bring myself to hold my rosary and needed my mom to help me pray it. I knew the lyrics in the song were bad but I just tried to ignore it and listen to the awesome tune, but you can’t dance around in your room to a song mocking Mary then go call for her aid at the end of the day, it just doesn’t work like that.
Exactly! I kinda felt the same. I didn't know this band. I had to search for the lyrics to understand clearly and be sure about what was being said (my native language is brazilian portuguese, so I thought he was saying something like "merry Marianna", or whatever). I listened to this song a few more times, but then it became unbearable. Later, when I had to pray, I felt myself guilty and even discouraged. I don't want to hear anything like that about my dear Mother, the Virgin Mary, ever again. There are many good songs instead of this one, which is now just garbage for me.
I'm a devout Catholic. I'm also very into power metal and hard/heavy rock music. It's aways been frustrating that many of the most talented artists that really catch my ear are also purveyors of a darker worldview and laxness towards sin. A very notable exception is the Christian power metal band, Theocracy. They have (in my opinion, at least) much more thoughtful lyrics than most Christian bands, and have the musical skill to back it up. Honestly, I can't imagine the content of some of their songs being effectively conveyed in any other genre. If you haven't heard of them, go check them out! Also a shout out to the song, "The Last Stand," by Sabaton (a secular power metal band) which is about the historic last stand made by the Swiss Guard, defending the Pope as Rome was sacked in 1527.
Amazing video my man. I absolutely love interpretations and analysis of this subject. Ghost is definitely a band that will be in the books. being a fan of them for the longest time I find them to be interesting. they are the center of attention in the music world. maybe that's what Tobias wants? I can't say his true intentions behind the band but I must say that they are geniuses in sparking interest and twisting deep meaning into their songs. ghost specifically draws me in with their guitar riffs and the voice tobias has but importantly the lyrics they write that aren't just about the devil, an example would be their song "Rats". This song talks about the bubonic plague and the religious views people at the time had on the event such as "God is mad at us so he sent a plague, this disease is our punishment". I find their music to be almost Lovecraftian, Medieval and especially Gothic in a bizarre sense. They speak about other macabre things rather than just Lucifer. I would say ghost glamorizes the disgusting and obscene. I believe that's why people like them so much. that's why i like them so much, because they're different, what they represent is definitely not to be ignored but I'm not offended, I'm not ashamed to "sit at a table" with them. I'm not on board with their message however. as a matter of fact i believe listening to ghost strengthens how i see god. when ghost sings i hear in their lyrics that the devils lies may make you feel good, and they sound good but you will be in pain and you will suffer.
I am not a Catholic (as far as I consciously understand), but I have heard of the seven deadly sins, and I have to say, the hair and the beard are filling me with ENVY!
Going into this, I was initially impressed thinking, ok, at least this guy is open to something outside of himself, but the whole unthinking comment really rubbed me the wrong way, you are Catholic, and that's fine and dandy, but that's not to say that everyone else has to believe the same way, and this is one of the major turn offs with religion. You have every right to say your beliefs, what you don't have the right to do, is expect everyone to follow the same belief system as you. it's not my intention to troll or be toxic, but I'm pretty sure the first thing Jesus talked about was not judging people, and too many so called Christians have a habit of calling everyone out while missing the main objective in the belief they use to call people out on, a bit of a conundrum if you ask me.
Where did I say that everyone has to believe the same thing as me? Everything on my channel is an attempt to explain my beliefs. There's no imposition in that. Regarding Jesus, no, he didn't teach us that we cannot judge the behavior or beliefs of others. Quite the opposite.
@@jasonnielsen5976 Jesus also told us to not cast pearls before swine and to not follow false prophets. How are we to follow these commandments unless we judge certain people to be "swine" or "false prophets". The verse you quote doesn't mean we have to suspend all moral judgement. It means we should not expect others to behave in ways we do not ourselves - IOW, don't be a hypocrite. It also means we should not make judgements about things or circumstances that we don't have enough information about. But everything else we do in life requires us to apprehend, understand, judge, and behave accordingly. You, yourself, are making judgements about the correctness or falseness of my commentary and you're right to do so. And, if we both make judgments, share our thoughts, and dialogue out of good will, we will be made better for it.
@@jasonnielsen5976 So, just to be clear, you're doing the exact thing you say I can't do. But I agree; I judge that to be a heinous crime against the Catholic faithful.
I have a question. I am a Christian have been along time. I’m a music lover, almost any type. I’m not fond of the lyrics and I have respect for my catholic brothers and sisters. I also enjoy the sound of ghosts music. I don’t take them seriously. God bless you.
While it could be that Tobias Forge orchestrates his music with an intention of malicious mockery, the way he conducts himself in interviews and on stage is a disarming facade that tells his fans "its not serious, don't take it seriously". Those who listen to ghost and share the same animosity had that animosity in their heart but those who don't won't find themselves converted if they see it as a joke and not a serious endeavor to mock and harm others. That disconnect between what could be his personal motive and how he openly influences fans is a key distinction that I respect, should his true motive be what is theorized.
As someone who is both a practicing Catholic and who listened to metal for years, i really enjoyed this. Sincere question - With regards to "Square Hammer," if the ritual truly is so secretive, why would Forge write a hit song about it? Honest question.
Metallica was my life for about a decade, I too learned to play their music, I studied the ‘deeper’ meanings of their lyrics etc. I still listen occasionally but only alone, usually when I’m feeling depressed. Great video.
What are the deeper meanings of their lyrics? Honestly, I think their lyrics are actually harmless, pertaining to the faith. They even have a song about the plagues in Exodus.
@@OrthoLou - I agree, most of their songs are perfectly harmless. Creeping Death is the song your referring to, Metallica also has a song ‘The God that failed’ which is very negative toward religion, and ‘Enter Sandman’ takes a children’s prayer and makes it creepy. So I choose not to listen to some of their songs but 95% of them are harmless, but I still wouldn’t listen with my kids.
As a man who has deconverted from Christianity to Agnosticism and is an avid fan of Ghost, I am not offended by your stance. It's definitely a mockery of the Catholic faith, but it's all artistic. It's also not so much that he says it's a joke, but more so that he has an interest in the abnormal. Christianity is absolutely HUGE and is one of the top religions in the world to follow, but what is the exact opposite and has significantly fewer followers? Satanism. In an interview (I've seen it before here on TH-cam, can't find it currently), he stated that ever since he was a child, he was enamored with the idea of something so evil to the rest of the world in any other circumstance would be considered loving and reliable to a small percentage of people. He invested himself in understanding the religion and its ins and outs and dedicated his work to the religion, but he himself does not believe what he has learned. It's like going to work for a construction company. If someone shows you a hammer and you think it's the coolest thing in the world and you go and do tons of research on the history of a hammer and you dedicate your life's work to understanding hammers, you yourself are not a believer of hammers. You may be obsessed, but not sacrificing things to hammers. You just love them. Same with Tobias. He loves the idea of Satanism. Simple as that. He's probably just so tired of explaining it to people that he's inaccurately narrowed it down to "it's a joke."
This held water until you came to freemasonry. I think you are missing the big picture. Tobias is not only mocking Catholicism, he is mocking religion. In particular how religions, not only Catholicism, is used for corruption, misuse of power, and misinformation. So in a way it is a mockery of institutions, not the followers or maybe not even religion itself. But I don't know that for sure, just as you don't know that Tobias Forge is a Freemason for sure. Or if there are any Catholics that are Freemasons.
I was raised Catholic in a very heavily catholic family and I think it’s part of the reason I was so drawn to Ghost. Their commentary on organised religion and their way of telling a story through their albums really speaks to me and no…I don’t see it as trolling, I see it as a man who enjoys certain aesthetics, as he’s admitted to enjoying classic horror. It’s a way of being creative and theatric and he works it very, very well. I think that’s all there is to it. You go to one of their shows and they’re very inclusive to everyone there, very warm and welcoming and they put on such an incredibly fun show. One of the best concerts I’ve been to. They don’t take themselves too seriously and I don’t think anyone else should either, just enjoy some catchy music and talented musicians with some poetic lyrics.
@@Tartersauce101 Respectfully, let's agree to disagree. Tobias is a talented musician with a flare for taboo themes and theatrical delivery (aka Alice Cooper, Kiss). But, it's really nothing more sinister than marketing and brand awareness cashing in on the supernatural - much the same as Halloween.
@@daveyiam THERE'S NO COMPARISON OF> HALLOWEEN TO> "satanism"‼ THATS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY🗣"LOUDLY & PROUDLY BEING A JESUS✝️➕THE CHRIST👤☝🏼👑BELIEVER & FOLLOWER OF 💯BIBLICAL📜📖TRUTHS‼
@@dianakaycadle5302 Let's agree to disagree my Sister in Christ. For 99.99% of fans, Halloween and Ghost are demonstrably alike. But then again, satire's not for everyone... Love and light with your BIBLICAL TRUTHS and for fixing that caps lock button ;) ✝✝✝
"Would most of us get offended by that" I don't think that's the right question. I think we should be asking - is GOD offended by mockery of Catholicism?
He's offering questions for non-Catholics to consider. He made that very clear in the beginning of the video. Nor do I think that asking leading questions, that answer themselves, to stir outrage as particularly effective tools in evangelization.
Not reasonable to believe that a God, a being of superior spiritual level, moral, intelligence, gets offended by art the same way it should when a person harms another person or destroy the nature, when people that create that art are good people.
I dunno, I listen to it all. Black Metal, Heavy metal, metalcore, punk, doom metal, stoner metal and so on. Christian here, I love it all and has no bearing on my beliefs nor the way I choose to walk through life. Its the music that trips my trigger. I could care less what they are saying or portraying. If I like the sound I like the sound. The cruncher it is the better is for me. Be strong enough to know yourself, your faith and enjoy. Same as accepting friends who do not believe or walk the same path.
This guy takes himself way too seriously. . He is too judgemental and needs to stop being so overbearing and manipulating people to do what he thinks they should do . Kind of arrogant and elitist.
It seems common for people's musical and entertainment tastes to change following conversion. My own tastes have certainly changed, to where I hear one of my former favorite songs and wonder, "What was I thinking?" When you mentioned getting an earworm from a Ghost song, the first thought in my mind was a deliverance prayer (see below). Then as I listened to the sample, it occurred to me that the devil knows what appeals to us. That's why he can tempt us. So yeah, the tune is neutral, but that's where the devil is disguised. Délivrance and protection prayers lessen the influence of the devil to the degree to which we're disposed to devotion to God. I pray this one daily: O my Jesus, I ask that if any demon tries to affect me from now until I fall asleep, while I sleep, and during my dreams, that Thou wouldst punish him by making him focus on that which causes him the most pain, all during the time he tries to affect me and for ten minutes more. I also ask Thee not to allow him to retaliate. I found this and others in the Sensus Traditionis Press book, *Deliverance Prayers for Use by the Laity,* compiled by Fr. Chad Ripperger. The thing I like about this particular prayer is that, if I have to be affected by any demon, even in the smallest and most insignificant way, then Jesus will make the demon suffer for trying to drag me to hell. As always, Brian, 3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻
There many videos put out by ghost here on YT and most of them are hilarious and lampoon themselves worst of all. They take the music seriously for sure and there is a theme which may or may not be to your liking. To each their own. But they really don’t take themselves seriously. It’s an act. The objective is entertainment, not corrupting souls. You definitely don’t have to like it but I think it’s ok if you do.
I am a faithful Catholic, but really enjoy metal music. I have to be VERY selective in the bands I listen to, and preclude a lot based on their lyrical content and beliefs. Fortunately there are plenty of options that steer clear of satanic content. Glad to hear some more Catholic opinions on the topic!
Why does it bother you if texts are satanic? Listening to them doesn't make you satanic or anything else. It's just someone else expressing a different viewpoint. You don't have to agree with it. I think you're missing out on a wide selection of great works of art. Also: What makes something satanic? Where would you draw a line? Does it have to be explicitly satanic like the album "The Satanist" by Behemoth? Or are anarchist and anti-religious themes coming from and referencing a completely different religious and cultural background - like the music of the saudi band Al-Namrood - satanic, even though they never even mention Satan? What about music that explicitly makes use of christian liturgy, but in a context that arguably inverts the themes commonly associated with them, like Батюшка (Batushka). The latter is a polish black metal band that sings russian-orthodox liturgy, but re-contextualises them, giving them a hypnotic, at some points outright threatening aura.
@@captainahab1533 I prefer not to consume media thay I see as counter to my my beliefs. Its no different than a vegetarian not eating meat. I'd draw the line at overtly expressed satanic beliefs or homage to satanic ideals, overt blasphemy, or satanic band members. I listen to a fair share of "black" metal that don't express these things, and even stopped listening to some bands I enjoyed, like Powerwolf, because of the the borderline blasphemous image and content they use, even though I really enjoyed their music.
Hi Brian.. I feel the same about the subject ..was very much into Canada's own Rush..May occasionally listen to rock music..because of my teenage life. Like your video on classical music..this is my preferred music..especially schubert ave maria...
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | ตัวตึง! ปากกล้า! ท้ารบ! "ทนายไพศาล เรืองฤทธิ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pU3dXTsaBVc/mqdefault.jpg)
love how there's a crusader helmet just casually chilling in the background
It's impossible to put into words just how much they fear a Just War Of Defense, or even Us noticing it and therefore Organizing against it.
Brian : I am kinda rusty and this music is kinda hard
Also Brian : Plays master of puppets
If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t he down picking too? Just like Hetfield
You Can't Kill The Metal!
th-cam.com/video/qR7U1HIhxfA/w-d-xo.html
He can’t play leads for shit though 😂
Brian: Now I am going to tell you a story of poor catholic minority, misunderstood and persecuted.
Also Brian: His church is built on a grave of first nation babies.
@@gg829 Ridiculous. Get out of here with your "first nation" bs.
As a Catholic, I love Ghost.
And to answer your question on what is Tobias' real intention/s on Ghost's theme?
Answer: to entertain people.
I'm an atheist and agree. It's cartoonish. Just a nod to hardrock and heavy metal history.
He's a satanist the same way a horror film director is a serial killer..
Fellow Catholic here, and I agree 💯💯💯💯
And to sell t-shirts.
But how do you justify Catholics being entertained by santanic rituals, lyrics that directly venerate Satan, and costumes that mock our clergy?
@@OrthoLou like I said, it's entertainment and they don't do satanic rituals (which by the way us catholics invented). And how can you justify our Catholic rituals? What makes you think that every catholic rite is good?
And if you are spiritually rattled by a rock/metal band then your faith is weak.
For someone who was “substantially immersed in metal” you have no idea about what black metal is or where it comes from. Ghost is nowhere near a black metal band. They do take influence from black metal, but musically or ideologically they’re very far from it.
Yea they are more doom-metal.
I dont know if he actually listened to any Swedish black-metal.
Glad someone said this, lol
Exactly, they're more theatrical metal with some gloom. Not even all that metal for many songs.
Oh very opionated. Suits your personality type.
Huh??? Their lyrics are pure black metal. He literally says they are very pop/dance oriented in their music at the start of this video.
If you catch up on their lore, you'll see that everything about it is humorous. He's mocking Satanism just as much as he's mocking Catholicism, and it's all hilarious. Whenever a Papa dies and is immediately replaced in a live show, or when Copia wrecks his tricycle, none of it is supposed to be taken seriously. They're an awesome band with a dash of great satire. Coming from someone whom grew up Catholic, but is now agnostic.
one of the devil's greatest tricks is to convince you that he doesn't exist.
@@Straitsfan lol
Cardinal Copia crashing his tricycle will never not be funny.
No, he's attacking The Fullness Of The Truth.
@@Straitsfan if there’s a god, he or she has to also be working overtime to convince us god doesn’t exist
You didn’t just call christians a “minority” did you?
He also claims Ghost basically mocking Catholics is racist, so...... LOL
yeah right?? i mean he made some interesting points here and there but at the end.. i was like?? you know christianity is THE biggest religion? that is literally KNOWN for its missionaries?
@@danimal097521 My favourite bit was about the persecution of Christians in Spain, like the Inquisition never happened...
@@lisam22 LOLOLOL Right? Far to many Christians....like the guy who made this video....like to pick and choose far to much about which parts of the religion they want to talk about and which parts they want to ignore. It's a huge reason why I never became religious.
@@lisam22 you're extremely misinformed about the inquisition. You should do your own research, Brian actually has a good video on it.
And even if Christians did persecute others at some point in history, do two wrongs make a right?
I am a former Catholic who now sees there is more than one path to Spirit. I love Ghost and listen to as many Tobias Forge's interviews as I can because I like to see how his mind works. He is a deep thinker and sees a wider view of spirituality, the world, and many other matters. I have heard him say he sees the devil as a metaphor- a symbol- for freedom to be who you are meant to be. I like that the fact that Ghost's songs call out all facets of Christianity, not just Catholicism for inducing fear in their followers/parishioners in order to make them follow their teachings.
The devil is a man-made concept that was originally based on the pagan god of nature, Pan, who was half-goat, half-man. He is called a Faun or Satyr (depending on the Roman/Greek/Celtic folklore one follows) The Christians felt they had to convert the pagans, so they turned Pan into a mainfestian of their fallen angel, Lucifer.
I have heard Tobias say he does believe in a higher/supreme being.
I will also be looking up that Psychology Today article you meantioned later today.
What is "Spirit"?
@@mr.horrorchild4094 th-cam.com/video/tLxjuoRXSnk/w-d-xo.html
All fair comment here. Listened to a couple of Forges interviews with Livewire...he is not an atheist and thinks "you're being lied to" when it comes to the traditional faith system. He believes in and has experienced "a presence" in which he believes. He's an articulate and plausible character.
He's an non-theistic satanist.
that "presence" is the dvl btw, look what it made him do.
@@HunnysPlaylistsprobably lmao
As a Ghost fan and someone who has been to their concerts, Ghosts music is just all fun. Fun to listen to, and a lot of fun to play.
I used to love them but...they're not likeSl Slayer, who portrays satanic stuff as scary and something we want to avoid, while Ghost makes seem charming and alluring. That's why I think they're dangerous, they make satanism seem appealing.
@@OrthoLou and...? That's exactly what christianism does with the Bible. God is love? Really? Listening so much about God makes me wanna hear about his "so evil" enemy.
@@augustomatt ot vs nt
@@augustomattProve God doesn't exist.
@@augustomattThe difference is that one is cool because it is aluring, and the other is intriguing because it is evil
I NEVER thought I'd see Brian Holdsworth play some Metallica riffs 😂.
Thats what i like to see from my Catholic channel's 😎
@@joedwyer3297 it's a good thing he included a disclaimer to say he is not playing to perform or show off. That gets him completely off the hook. But saying he's out of practice... ;-)
Every metal head have a dark side.
@@AlDunbar: Yeah, when he did that (saying he was out of practice) I thought to myself, "Brian, Brian, you're such a unique guy! Don't be a cliche! Don't say exactly the same thing that I and every other frustrated amateur musician says right before playing something for other people!"
But of course we all do it, because we're all insecure about our playing, whether we have reason to be, or not.
@@cw-on-yt I don't say I'm out of practice. I just say I'm not very good lol
Oh boy. Where do I even start? First of all, there is no such thing as being "objectively offensive". Offense is all in the eye of the beholder. What one person finds offensive, another won't. There are plenty of religious folks who listen to bands like Ghost and aren't offended one bit. If an artist is enough to shake a person's faith, it wasn't very strong in the first place. Secondly, Catholics are not a "visible minority". Google the term "visible minority". Hint: it's associated with race. So yeah, Catholics don't qualify. Moreover, Catholics aren't a minority group full stop. There's 1.2 billion of you guys for goodness sake!
As for Tobias being a freemason? Literally the only proof of that (and I use the word "proof" loosely) is the ex nameless ghouls' statement after they lost the court case. Most likely? They were sore losers making excuses. As far as I know, it's never been verified that either the judge or Tobias were/are freemasons let alone that they knew each other (if anyone has any evidence to the contrary that I'm unaware of, feel free to let me know). Incidentally, one only has to look at their disgusting statements made about Tobias' deceased brother to determine the quality of the ex-ghouls' characters. But anyway, even if Tobias IS a freemason, who the hell cares? Despite what conspiracy theory people on the internet may have told you, freemasons are NOT a "secret society" (or at least they aren't at this point in history). They're a very well known, global fraternity organisation that focuses on building the moral fibre and discipline of its members (for example, how they're involved in charity and so on?). It's basically a metaphorical extension of what masonry itself originally was - building things. Tobias Forge isn't hanging out in Swedish lodges taking blood oaths in exchange for record sales. Live in reality.
On the subject of "the devil". I assure you, there's plenty of believers who DO view Satan in the stereotypical way that Tobias describes. I've met them. They exist. Now, in fairness to religion, it is largely due to pop culture that the red guy with horns and a pitchfork archetype has become synonymous with what the devil is. This is one reason why Tobias is always careful to point out in interviews that there's a difference between the "biblical devil" and the "pop cultural devil". He views the devil on his own terms as informed by both religion and pop culture. Like most so-called "Satanists", the devil to him is a character. It's a metaphor for certain traits that exist within the human psyche. He uses his interpretation of this (and other religious concepts) to critique and parody religion and mankind's relationship to it. That's literally all he's doing (well, that and making some great rock music). If you're offended by it, that's on you. You being a snowflake and branding it as "hate-speech" isn't Ghost's problem. It's yours.
P.S. Apu should have never been removed from The Simpsons
I was so appalled when he said that freemasonry is something that you need to make a blood oath to get in, and that they threaten their members with a brutal death (????) if they reveal anything. I'm rather close to freemasonry and that was fucking new to me, considering most freemasons I know are those 'christian god-fearing patriot' men.
And right after that he started talking about recharacterizing a position you're against by using absurd terms.
Also, as far as I know, Tobias never said that it was just "trolling", that's one way to casually dismiss what he has said in all these years of interviews, masked and otherwise
This is an embarrassingly awful comment
@@brunotqb you apparently don't know anything about freemasons
Triggered
#BringBackApu
Here's my take on Ghost. The reason why i feel they're great at tap dancing around satanical themes is because it's just a story.
Just because billions of people around the world have enacted a religious following behind the story, doesn't will it into existence, but because people believe to be, they resent when it's challenged. Ghost have mastered the art of Mockery while at the same time showing you just how foolish it is to believe in something without seeing it for what it truly is. A story
So Ghost is just mocking Satanism..?
@@OrthoLou it’s mocking organized religion in general.
@@OrthoLou Yes. Isn't it obvious?
Yes. Religion is a story, so it’s no big deal to take interest in either side of the story. Beautifully said.
Very interesting to watch people comment about this subject
“It’s the truth of candor shown through a prism of deceit.
It’s the continence of bishops with their choir boys en-suite.
It’s the tongue selling adulation that licks to no avail.
It’s the noise of the righteous dogma that hides the handmaid’s tale.”
I’d argue Ghost isn’t anti-Catholic or anti-Christian, but anti weaponized organized religion. There’s nothing more dangerous than telling a group of people that have been the majority for ages (and still are if you look at the breakdown of how many Catholics/Christians there are worldwide) that they are being marginalized or losing influence. There’s a lot of money and power to be made off of that kind of insecurity and uncertainty. Talking God and oppression at the pulpit or podium to rally the base while abusing that power for personal or political gain is not that uncommon throughout history or even today.
So many of their songs are about that kind of manipulation, abuse, and the use of Christianity as a shield against criticism.
Also, here’s an excerpt from that Psychology Today article you glossed over. “He claims he supports the right to believe in whatever one chooses, and believes in the existence of Jesus as a person. "I do believe in the idea of a historic person named Jesus that was a kind of chill dude who was just telling people to chill and be nice to each other. And he got penalized for that," Forge states. "I definitely believe that tormenting other people because of the Bible and for that to be - for lack of a better word, Gospel ... I think that is not very nice." That segment came off as a fallacy of exclusion or “cherry picking” on your part, which is also a manipulative tactic. Tobias being a Freemason is also under debate as that was alleged by his ex-band mates after losing a court case in order to gain an appeal, which has yet to go through. If evidence comes to light during that appeal, then feel free to make that claim as anything more than conjecture.
Edit: I almost forgot. Ghost is about as black metal as ABBA. (That’s not an insult. I love them both.) Tobias’s former band Repugnant was closer to black metal (death metal). I’m not into gatekeeping music, but I will call out someone claiming to approach an argument from the basis of knowledge on a subject when they can’t get the basics right because it doesn’t support their argument.
Thank you so much my mom watched this and now I can’t have my ghost stuff up anymore this is a really good argument 👍
@@axoloxtl1636 one day you'll move out, and your mum will have absolutely zero say in your life. Hold tight. You'll get there.
I call it regressive metal and I don't mean it as an insult. I use it to define prog metal that progs so far and hard that it is almost not metal.
@@axoloxtl1636 I look forward to your day of liberation when you can be your own person once again.
The “handmaid’s tale/tail” line is quite interesting, as obviously Handmaids Tale is set in a ultra-conservative Christianity dystopia, and at every turn the people in power utilize the Bible as a figurative hammer against each other. Kaisarion’s line had me rewatch and catch up on the show, and it’s very obvious that he used this line in the song - “the righteous dogma that hides the Handmaids Tale”. Give it a watch if you haven’t.
interesting read, the comment section here. Coming from a Ghost fan.
I can see the points being made here but they're not made from a full understanding of the intent that Forge has given. And never have I seen where Forge said that he is mocking Catholics. He simply likes the aesthetics of it. Forge has stated he is a fan of horror films. Particularly classic horror films. This comes off in a lot of his music videos and artwork on the Ghost albums. This fuses with a concept of a "Satanic pope"and church. He has said before that the Catholic art and style is very grand and powerful feeling, so it's something he took visual inspiration from. But those things are not intended to mock, it's simply how his creativity is expressed. Also, what evidence is there besides a passing statement from another band member that he is involved in Freemasonry? Do you know the personality of his old band mates and what they were like? Do you understand the context of their words and comprehend their humorous undertones? Do you actually know what Freemasonry is and what they believe in? Where did you gain that knowledge? Do you know any freemasons?
Lots of assumptions made in his commentary. If that’s how he feels that’s okay. But to preach to others their soul will be lost for tongue in cheek theatre is kinda silly.
@@Codyeye Exactly.
Abandoning a type of music that you’re drawn to for the sake of religion is absolutely insane. No individuality allowed? No independent thought? As a former catholic and life long “heavy music” fan and guitarist, I say fuck that.
It’s not hypocritical to love Christ on one hand and listen to absurdly anti religious/satanic black metal on the other hand.
The ears like what they like.
And Ghost isn't anywhere near black metal in any form either...
Calling Forges description of his belief for a pyramide scheme or implying that a fun story/persona cannot be done seriously, since you would have to believe in the devil for it to work, is all such major fallacies. The gasslighting and strawman practices he says Forge himself is doing..
What a cold take. Hedonism isn't Christian. The modern cult of pleasure isn't compatible with Catholicism. You say 'former Catholic' but man, what did you ever understand of it??
It depends. On one hand I get what you are saying. It’s about how the music makes you feel and think, or it could be just for fun.
But it’s important to pay attention to that. I have a lot of trouble listening to some of the music I used to before returning to Catholicism because the lyrics promote degeneracy and I just can’t mesh with that anymore.
Not a type of music. The band its self. You obviously didn't bother listen to Brian playing Master of Puppets by Metallica right here in this very video.
You just don't get it yet. Is not so simple.
Honestly Brian I would love to hear your opinion on a band called Demon Hunter. They are a great band that affirms Christian beliefs in their songs but is not preachy about it. They are one of the best Christian metal bands I have ever heard
You may enjoy Impending Doom as well. Another great Christian metal band.
I'm a fellow Demon Hunter appreciator
Living Sacrifice, Mortification, War of Ages, and For All Eternity are other Christian metal bands. Check them out, they are awesome!
And I suspect that Ryan Clark is Catholic.
@@duchstitneho In the Dead Flowers lyric video there's a rosary, so I guess one or more of them are? :)
I am a ghost fan, but find the discussion very interesting. Thanks.
This is all starting to sound like the 80's, when rock lyrics were bad, and were leading children to be satanists. Going to a ghost show is a fun night out, listening to amazing music and seeing an amazing stage show. Are you going to call Dave Grohl a satanist, because he donned a mask and sat behind the drum kit at a few shows? Of course not, why, because it is just a show.
Honestly, a lot of stuff in the 80s DID overly sexualize people. And it's only gotten worse, now we have Cardia B singing about her WAP...
Look around, has lust not seriously taken our culture by the throat?
And if you're simply not a believer, and think Ghost is a fun night out, then have at it. But Catholics shouldn't be supporting stuff like this, no matter how cool or catchy it sounds.
@@OrthoLou you sound incredibly judgemental for someone who claims to be Christian. Ah. wait...catholic.
persecution led me to be a Satanist.
@@lisam22 going off of your comments throughout this thread (you're very triggered over someone not liking a band that you do), you don't know much about Christianity or how a Christian should "sound."
@@lisam22 Catholics use judgement and reason to make their claims.
Not to be that person but Ghost isn’t that deep. They put on the schtick to criticize how higher power in catholic groups is often exploited and used to take advantage of others. I understand some people may be put off by this, but when you’re going out of your way to try and fight something that doesn’t matter, you just look stupid. They have a schtick, and you outright trying to say that the band is trying to convert people also makes you looks stupid, because that same argument can be used for bands who make predominantly Christian based music. But, you guys trying to say that Ghost is almost dangerous because their schtick is because I’m convinced it’s because you don’t want to come face to the face with the critiques it’s making on Catholicism.
Plus, it’s not like fans of Ghost are FORCED to like Ghost.. They’re catchy, they’re a good band. If you’re really upset about the criticisms that Tobias is making, then you’re literally the people he’s talking about. You guys want to flip it and keep attention away from yourselves, that’s why you said that he was part of some secret society and made some blood oath. Not to mention, you’re falling into a trap, you’re falling for little breadcrumbs for you to pick up so you look like an idiot. You’re following that trail, going straight into his trap, his trap being you criticizing his schtick because it conflicts with your beliefs.
Exactly.
If you really know Ghost and Tobias you can see that it is a parody of the Church, simply with the aim of entertaining. Ghost doesn't make a hate speech It simply makes fun of some things about Catholicism, this being black humor, it is not meant to offend or generate hatred. I have been a fan of Ghost for 6 years, and I can assure you that fans are not alienated to hate the Church or anything similar, it is more, the majority end up having more knowledge about it. On the subject of the trials, he won because the former ghouls wanted more money in addition to fame (because at that time all identities were secret) and as tobias is the owner of Ghost, so he fired them and that's where the reason he won, he did nothing wrong, since then, there has been no trouble with any member. As for the subject of Satanism, Tobias has said on many occasions that he does not believe in any of that, it is simply his way of being able to give a message since. As for the subject of Satanism, Tobias has said on many occasions that he does not believe in any of that, it is simply his way of being able to give a message Since most of the songs have a hidden meaning behind, a meaning that normally has nothing to do with the Church, but with our current society.
Thats very true, but at the same time, when you have 10,000 people chanting "Hail Satan" (Year Zero)... I'm not really sure thats a good thing. Can't lie though, I really dig Ghost.. Even though I feel a little guilty about it lol.
@@Frankenberry it’s not a good thing. Year Zero is absolutely amazing in that context.
@@Frankenberry Actually the official lyrics are "Hell Satan." I dig Ghost, but I consider myself atheist, so I really don't feel guilty for liking them since I personally don't think God or Satan exist. I also listen to and enjoy Christian rock/metal bands, and other bands that worship gods like Thor (like Amon Amarth). In my mind, it's all fiction and fantasy. And Ghost puts on one helluva show :)
I love watching people get upset about make believe things…and about Ghost. 😆
He may not believe in anything spiritual, but that doesn’t stop the spiritual from believing in him.
So.....
Ghost is my fav band. And I have heard criticisms from every direction. You're the first one to give their opinion/view in a calm and respectful manner.
Thank you
Presenting something in a calm and respectful manner is meaningless. It is just dressing for the content. Tone of the criticism is not important.
Honestly, while I could forgive some completely nonsensical false equivalencies (like equating christians to muslims when it comes to persecution) or outright lies (like calling christians a minority), the whole thing takes a nosedive after he starts spouting conspiracy theories about the masons.
Sorry, but the reason why the clergy and religious leaders where targeted during every revolution is because religious leaders were always dirty whores sucking people dry. Of course they are some of the first people to be lined up against the wall, as well as they should be. Blaming it on some secret society of powerful men is such a slap in the face to any serious historical analysis and taking away the agency from the people who rebelled against the bloodsuckers in the first place.
Abandoning a type of music that you’re drawn to for the sake of religion is absolutely insane. No individuality allowed? No independent thought? As a former catholic and life long “heavy music” fan and guitarist, I say fuck that.
It's typical of religion, trying to control the masses, any form of rebellion must be quashed! Heaven forbid someone have some fun.
Or he just didn't care for it anymore once he converted..? It's possible you know. I cut out a lot of music once I got back into my faith, but still listen to a lot of metal that isn't problematic. Metallica, just one example, is perfectly fine.
But I'll never listen to Ghost again because I think their lyrics are sick, and they mock my faith. Would you listen to someone who mocked you?
@@OrthoLou i only listen to instrumentalists
Yeah, this video is saying no individuality or independent thought is allowed. Perfect interpretation, good job.
"they present themselves as a kind of mockery of Catholicism, through their branding, their costumes, and their lyrics"
Hmm, what does my reason tell me about this...
Big brain time.
Chin scratching moment.
And yet the comment section is shilling for these obvious points just because his metal riffs sound "cool"
Tells me that this guy can't handle satire as well as he probably thinks. I have to respect his intelligence and the sheer amount of research and dedicated study he almost certainly went through, though.
@@tryhardf844 I think their sound is great but I can't justify listening to them.
Same with artists like Rob Zombie.
My reason tells me that you don't seem to rely on reason that often...
I want to bring to your attention to the misinformation present in this video. First of all, there is no concrete proof that Tobias Forge is a freemason, other than an offhand claim by someone who sued him who was hoping that the claim would grant him a retrial in their legal dispute. To say that this connection "came in handy" for Forge makes no sense because it actually did cause a retrial, which was a setback for Forge in the dispute.
Additionally, the claim was that Forge belonged to the same masonic group as the judge, which was the Fourth Division of the Swedish Rite. The Swedish Rite Masons are known very specifically to admit Christian ONLY members, and the Fourth Division is the most rare and exclusive section of it. It is unlikely that a man who has vocally rejected organized religion and uses Satanic themes in his band would be allowed to be a Swedish Freemason. For you to say that he's a Swedish Freemason would mean that he is currently a practicing Christian, which then would go against the rest of the commentary in your video as well.
Secondly, Forge's band is a satirical criticism of organized religion after growing up in a majority-Christian country and experiencing religious trauma. This is not at all comparable to a non-Muslim man making racist and Islamophobic caricatures (in 11:10 of your video). That comedic act is not "mocking a culture" but rather simply Islamophobia. Forge's satirical commentary on Christianity is stemming from his own experiences, it's not "good humor" or "hatred". It's clever rhetoric about serious issues within organized religion that he himself suffered. If an ex-Muslim man made satirical commentary on issues within Muslim communities, then that isn't mocking, it's critical thinking on things that pertain specifically to him, and perhaps is cathartic.
Ghost and Forge's vision is purely advocating for free choice, individuality, self awareness, and rejecting the idea of religions being forced on others. He uses Satanism as the vehicle for such messages, as it has been used as such for decades. His lyrics are very transparent in this regard and never have I or most other Ghost fans have ever thought Ghost is mere "trolling". They're complex, rhetorical and quite clever, using Biblical and historical allegories and metaphors. Most of us are also people who suffered from religious trauma and find peace within Forge's messages of autonomy and rejection of the norms. The aspect of Satanism is largely surface-level, and if you truly engage with the band's music the societal commentary and metaphor becomes clear.
There is a lot of internal bias I think you need to reconcile with before making videos on bands like Ghost, otherwise you may spread some harmful misinformation. I also think there is irony in you preaching about Forge needing to be transparent with his audience when in fact it is you who is not being transparent with your audience here. I hope that this message can help you learn more about Ghost and understand on a deeper level what their intention and meaning is.
A lot of projection in this reaction towards Ghost and Tobias when in fact, most if not all could be said about Christianity. That's the great thing about choice. I appreciate the video and the perspective but I don't agree with the finger pointing and the lack of self awareness when it comes to manipulation.
Nahhh, Ghost is just trolling. Tobias' views on the world from what I have seen in his interviews is no different than interviews you would've seen from any current metal band. Rob Halford of Judas Priest, no doubt has plenty of sincere and genuine angst against Christianity, but Tobias, is from a totally different generation and from Sweeden of all places, a very secular nation. He has never lived in a insane religious country like America nor is he from the same generation that enforced evangelical tyranny upon the population. If you want to see a genuine musician that has sincere gripes against Christianity read the "Long Road Out of Hell" by Marilyn Manson. Tobias is full of shit and is only creating these Emeritus/Cardinal characters because it's an homage to black metal and it sells concert tickets. You're out of you mind if you seriously think there's any depth to Tobias' work spans thicker than his wallet. 100% simulation pop metal, but it's good 100% simulation pop metal.
Very well said! I love the satire. Everyone down playing the ART that goes into the band, the lyrics, the music itself, just wants to argue for the sake of arguing.
his intent and actions show he is an f-mason. f-masons are THE stnic cvn. that they "admit christian members" is both corruption and infiltration.
you are explicitly, in mal fide, attacking Catholicism. FULL STOP.
Wow. This was like listening to your religious aunt in the time of the satanic panic. Hilarious.
Yea, my aunt always riffed some GnR right before warning me about the devil.
@@BrianHoldsworth You just used a ridiculous comparison in an attempt to humorously troll someone's view on your message. As Daffy Duck would say: "It is, to laugh."
Absolutely. I'd love to see the evidence of 'freemasonry', but I'm guessing this is just another pearl clutching fanatic of faith.
@@BrianHoldsworth I don't know if we could call it 'riffing'
@@BrianHoldsworth Getting ratio'd on your own channel... Talk about,"speaking about things you are ignorant about".... WOW. Clueless.
The best part was watching your picking hand at 1.5 speed before I clued in that it was at 1.5 speed. I was like “this guy is superhuman!”
When it comes to Catholic music, there are very few bands that are worth listening to, but I recently discovered Within Thy Wounds doing a blackgaze kind of sound. And their lyrics are straightforward faith-filled without being cheesy. I’d recommend them to anyone fixated on the dark corners of the metal world to show them light.
I am from the "darkest corners" of the metal world and I wish I could show you all the light but your heads are in a place where no light shines.
Check out Katholicus (you probably have to look them up on TH-cam, Illuminandi, and Theandric.
There are also many great Christian metal bands who aren't exclusively Catholic like those 3. I'm a power metal guy, so Theocracy is my personal favorite.
Black Label Society is fronted by Zakk Wylde, a practicing Catholic who wrote a song about the Blessed Virgin Mary. Also, one of Sabaton's biggest songs is about the Swiss Guards defending the Pope in "The Last Stand". There's some great songs for Catholics out there in metal.
Add Stryper in this list
I have a Ph.D. in religious studies, with a specialization in biblical studies, am a department chair and professor, and have been doing this for more than 20 years. Ghost is my favorite band. Am I an unthinking person?
We all have blind spots - especially when it comes to the things we are attracted to.
Title dropping is unimpressive. I took it to mean as Catholics and Christians it would be unthinking to listen to a band like this. If you are an unbeliever or maybe even agree with them, there would not be any conflict of values.
If that's rusty, I can't even imagine what you sounded like when you were in practice.
Those who like Ghost, check out his previous band ‘Subvision. Only 1 album but it rocks! A precursor to Ghost. Guy is definitely talented.
Also Magna Carta Cartel
Not to forget the awesome Repugnant!
Repugnant… Epitome Of Darkness is amazing.
To this day i love heavy metal symphonic death and all kinds. As long as its hard fast. Makes me feel alive. Plus its far better musical composition then what we call popular.
Death metal is not black metal.
I'm a Christian and I listen to hard rock music and Ghost is one of my favorites. If Tobias has a satanic agenda with his music it doesn't effect me one bit. I see it as entertainment and lots of fun having seen Ghost live many times. People who are seriously into Satanism will view the band differently and take his message seriously. Tobias has said he isn't a devil worshipper but is open to the idea of a Supreme being but wanting more proof that he/she exists. I agree that many horrible things have occurred in the name of a religion and I don't understand that as it seems hypocritical. You mentioned Jeff Dunham and his Achmed character which was created in response to the terror attacks. It isn't necessarily aimed at the Islamic religion but rather from the view of a terrorist doing suicide bombings in order to please Allah. Again that is hypocritical. I don't take comics or bands seriously and they aren't corrupting me at all. My faith is strong enough to ward off "evil" influences.
why not listen to Seventh Wonder "the light"? A far better Swedish band.
“ My Faith is strong enough…” be careful when you say that because even St.Peter who had the same Faith as you was rebuked by Jesus and was called “Satan” because of that kind of Faith.
Humility is key 🔑
satanists don't even believe in satan, only christians do.
Justification is a powerful thing.
"I don't take comics or bands seriously and they aren't corrupting me at all. My faith is strong enough to ward off "evil" influences." this statement is scary. You are not in as much control over yourself as you think.
"I'm Jewish but I love reading to Mein Kampf and listening to Nazi bands. People see them as antisemitic, and of course, Nazis did bad things in the past, but it's fun and entertaining."
I have to say that when I first heard Ghosts Square Hammer, I loved it. Even as a Catholic, it didn’t bother me. I just thought of it as a cool sounding very catchy song. Something that reminded me a lot of Blue Oyster Cult, a band I listened to in the 80’s as a teenager. I thought of the satan aspect as just theatrics, kind of like Kiss or Alice Cooper. Then I started listening to some of their other songs as well as watching their videos. The satanic imagery and glorification was all over the place. And as suddenly as I started listening to them, I stopped. Cold turkey. From listening to stories of various Catholic Saints, I understood the devil and his losers try as hard as they can to worm their way into your life. And like roaches (literally) once they’re in it’s hard to get them out. And then the thought, that by listening to them, I’m offending and saddening God, someone I want to be with for eternity, and that I could be damning my soul, that was it. I was done with Ghost. I have to be on my guard though. Just hearing the song on your video made me want to turn them back on. I made it pass though. Thoughts of an eternity going insane over and over again in hell because you know you’ll never see God were enough to crush the urge.
My final thought. Always be on your guard. Old Scratch hates you and will try anything he can to lure you away from Christ and our loving Father. God bless.
Based
Same here once I started seeing the satanic imagery in the old rock N' roll and metal I listened to, stopped instantly, I need God above all in my life.
I’ve heard it said that “if you are a hammer, everything else is a nail.” The judge also bangs his hammer (gavel) in court when calling the court to order, but I don’t want to stand before Satan swearing an oath to him. He is not my judge; he’s only the accuser.
The essencial philosophy of Ghost is that if youre stupid religious fundamentalist, you deserve to be bothered by their music. If youre chilled and open minded, youre welcomed to enjoy them.
@@danielpavlik7242 so, anyone who has read Dante’s Inferno knows the Devil’s chilled at the bottom, they will nope right out of listening to Ghost for a prolonged period of time.
Another artist that is very similar, although much more open and brazen about it, that I used to really be into was King Diamond, and even now some of his songs occasionally pop into my head. KD is very open about being a lavean satanist (basically an atheist with a heavy dose of esotericism thrown in), and takes the often adopted approach of “if God allows bad things then God is a bad guy.” Anybody with a hint of theological understanding knows how nonsensical this position is, but sadly it’s become the default to allow “do what thou wilt” to matter more than any sense of real human teleology.
@Relaxation Music One of my favorite albums. That, along with 'Abigail' and 'Conspiracy'
I've never really listened to them, but I'm about to go and do that now, thanks for the suggestion.
Also the part about Achmed the Dead Terrorist, yeah sure it could be seen as offensive at first that he would do that with his character. Until he literally took Achmed TO THE MIDDLE EAST and performed with him over there and was the biggest hit of his entire show! The audiences were waiting for that! They wanted to see Achmed. I'm pretty sure that when the ethnicity you're poking fun at comes, supports and loves your act, I think you've succeeded.
You are correct. I heard Jeff Dunham describe the first time he performed using Achmed in the Middle-East. The Saudis wanted him to perform using Achmed because they thought it was hilarious.
Achmed is a dead terrorist. A suicide bomber that screwed up so badly that he only managed to kill himself. That he’s Muslim-coded is more a sign of the times. If Dunham had written his material during, say, The Troubles, maybe Achmed would have been an Irish Catholic. He mocking terrorists. Not Muslims.
AS a Huge fan of Ghost, I would like to clear up a HUUUUGE misconception ... Ghost aka Tobis Forge.. is NOT a practicing " Satanist" Atheist if anything at all... While I respect your opinion., the 2 Categories you place Metal fans in to is Offensive and completely false
Many Satanists use that excuse; they're athiests and it's all just symbolism.. but the thing is...Satan is the father of LIES, so why should I believe satanists wouldn't lie about that?
And Brian provided a quote where he gives Satan credit for his talent and success.
@@OrthoLou and The Catholic Church isnt Guilty of Hypocrisy and Lies??? Lets not even go there.. I grew up Hard Core Roman Italian Catholic.. I Like the the concept of having something to believe in to give one a sense of comfort , what i cannot stand is Lies and asking for Money to be accepted intto Heaven by some screaming banshee on TV on a Sunday morning, HILLSONG Scandle. Lets talk about THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tobias Forge is a SAINT compared to Benedict who sits High and Mighty in Rome, the most corrupt person in Vatican CIty... SO many Homeless people there and NO HELP from the church
Yes he is! Why do you feel so sure about topics you're ignorant of? It's all there in Square Hammer, but if that's not enough, Tobias LITERALLY says his brother died and somehow Satan then gave him (Tobias Forge) success. It's in an interview.
Also Hillsong isn't Catholic.
@@JonBonZombie that is inherently anti Christian though as lying is inherent to satanism so they are not the same.
Dominus Vobiscum my brothers and sisters, as an aging Metalhead and a Roman Catholic Seminarian, I really liked Brian's reaction to Ghost (and I really digged his jam session before the talk) I hope he does some more reactions to bands from a Catholic perspective...Pax et Bonum
What do you think of Powerwolf?
I once where in the Sacristi of the parish church speaking to the Sacristan of said church, and the following was uttered: The nearer you are to the Holy and to Christ the nearer you are to Evil and to the entities of the Devil himself.❤🔥
The transition from Brian’s guitar into chants is awesome
Imagine being a functional adult and being afraid of witches, devils, and secret societies.
Imagine not being spiritually prepared to Deal witches and demons
@@1thess523 Imagine not being spiritually prepared to deal with real ghouls and goblins. Yeah that's what that sounds like.
Imagine that they are serious and it's not a joke.
@@1thess523 I'm good.
I'm also spiritually prepared deal with the Tooth Fairy, a Chupacabra, the Mothman, the Bat-Boy, the Loch Ness Monster, and Bela Lugosi as Dracula.
Did I miss anything? Maybe a unicorn or mermaid?
@@monkeysvs.snakes4336 Imagine thinking that just because somebody is serious about something that it suddenly means it's true.
Guitar playing atheist metalhead here. The fact that you downpicked all of master of puppets, especially after having not played for a while, is awesome. I don’t think I’d be able to do that if I put my guitar down for a week. Sending love from Cambodia! (I live in the United States)
Hail Satin! (and whatever other fabrics Ghost uses in their stage costumes.)
Well done.
👏👏👏
I don't agree that Tobias is taking it more seriously than he's letting fans believe, I think your misenterpreting that. Tobias has said that he believes in Satan in a "pop culture sense", not a physical being. So when he says he gives credit of his success to Satan you have to remember Satan (he believes) is different than the Satan that christians and Catholics believe.
Ohhhhhh man ok I'm invested here. Being Catholic and a metalhead at the same time
Same lol! Well Christian for me but close enough lol
@@DareBear2099 top 3 bands. Go.
@@KSGomez88 Coheed and Cambria, Deftones, Black Sabbath (Dio era)
You?
@@DareBear2099 damn! Bold choices! Ok..
1. Sabaton
2. Iron Maiden
3. Motley Crue
@@KSGomez88 you have quality choices homie, always love me some maiden! Check out Zeal and Ardor if you haven’t already. Almost put them in my top 3
Tobias has stated he likes Satan of the media, imagery, movies, songs, costumes etc. His lyrics are also a lot deeper than that, and quite often don't mean the literal devil.
I'd also happily criticise all religions and put my name to it, they are all worthy of it, and none can claim any moral high ground.
Being offended is also subjective, as such, noone has a right not to be offended. There are plenty of Christians here in this thread who like Ghost even if they think it mocks their beliefs.
Having said all that, you seem like a pleasant thoughtful chap, and I enjoyed the vid 👌
We have very different views on things but I always loves to hear the other side. I think Ghost makes just as much fun out of "real" satanists as they do out of Christians and I don't mind people having fun with stereotypes. However secret societies like the free masons are a bit to much if he is involved with them.
But then as a Swede I know which bands Tobias played in before ghost like "Onkel Dingle Berry" and they sung about gays, poop, pedofiles and retarded people ( in Swedish ) in the most immature ways so I have a hard time take anything from him serious.
What is your opinion on Christian death and black metal bands? There is quite a few extremely talented very hard bands out there like Pantokrator, their song Crossroads is great.
I don't have the room to explain why here, but you have Tobias Forge WAAYYYY wrong.
I'm sure he doesn't care
I think people have a hard time separating criticism/parody of the church and criticism of faith. Tobias is parodying the church, which no one can even argue has had a checkered past worthy of criticism. I don't think it has anything to do with people's personal faith
How can someone seem so intelligent and wellspoken, but still miss the entire point? I assume because of a deeply ingrained idea(about christianity in this case)
Thought this was about the Whoopi Goldberg film.
I wish it had been actually lol
In case people aren't aware, ghost have a story going on in the background with various popestars and cardinals going up the ranks. The album's also have themes around time periods and concepts like plague times and most recently occultism in the style of Alastair Crowley.
Edit: the band are hugely entertaining live with every band member being a character of their own.
Freemasons aren't a secret cult by the way. Their existence is well known and their practices are quite documented.
So that means that both Freemasons and Satanists (including the members of Ghost), can't be, ya know, lying?
@@OrthoLou lying about what? The fact that they aren't secret and everybody knows they exist? The implication of saying that freemasons are secret is to say that they are like lizard people. They exist as some sort of shadowy whisper that only the enlightened know about? Or is the reality I can Google freemasons and come to a very official website explaining that "we are freemasons and we exist openly in the world"?
@@OrthoLou I imagine you're aware of the "socks for Satan" drive that the church of Satan run regularly too. It's entirely for the good of the homeless to make sure they get clothed and fed particularly in the winter. I don't see many Christian churches doing that despite the lofty ideals they don't uphold.
Yeah it’s all just fun and entertainment it’s like a band that also is putting on a play for the audience which is awesome because you get a show and music
I think you're thinking too much about all of this. Ghost is just good music, and if you look at it twice, they are just dressed as Scoobidoo monsters :) it's halloween, and basta... Faith is tons more than that, and as a Catholic myself, i do not see as satanism in their style and music as in bands like Watain, or Behemoth (bands i do not really like for that.)
what are your thoughts about Manson
Didn’t the devil physically appear when he tempted Jesus? So that means a spirit can be physical?
A spirit can appear to physical senses, but is not by nature physical. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (the summary of Catholic teaching) describes angels (of which the devil is): "As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will." Paragraph 330.
But we all now know that Cardinal Copia is goofy.
Not Catholic, but a former Chaplains Assistant in the Army. Instant Sub for this video alone. Jeff Dunham is loved in the Middle East for that specific act of Achmed. I still listen to some of the heaviest of metal. As a follower of Christ Jesus, the heart is judged only.
"a Catholic like yourself..."
Are you implying you're a better Catholic than us Catholics who enjoy Ghost?
Judge lest ye be judged, my dude.
Most misinterpreted line in the bible.
It's not up to us to judge whether or not someone is saved, but we're REQUIRED to admonish people when they sin or cosume things that can put them in spiritual danger.
@@OrthoLou so you assume because I listen to Ghost that I am deserving of YOUR judgement? Only God himself can judge me. The God I grew up believing in is forgiving and kind, not full of hatred and condemning people for musical tastes. 🤣
I am mexican, and a fan of ghost. It is true that freemasonry played a huge role in the Cristero War, and that horrible crimes were committed to the Catholic population during that time period. But here're a few clarifications:
a. Catholics were NOT a minority (and still they are not). Most of the population (+80%) identifies as Roman Catholic
b. At that time, the church had huge economic and political power, and in the people's minds
c. Calles Law was put in effect that would make Mexico a secular state, and Catholics fought it back because they didn't want to loose their position of political and economic power
Currently the church has influence over the people of Mexico, especially the poorest, and this often has negative effects on Mexican society. Every story has more than one side.
80% of the population is Catholic..? That is just false lol. Maybe like.. 33%, at the most. Nearly 8 billion people in the world, and only about 2.1 billion of them are even christian, let alone specificially catholic.
@@OrthoLou Read again, I'm talking about Mexico. Specifically early XX century Mexico. Brian mentioned the persecution of Catholic "minorities" in places like Mexico and Spain.
He never said catholics were a minority in Mexico. He never mentioned the area and it is assumed he is speaking globally.
Yeah, and the freemason Calles is the hero that save the defenseless Mexicans from their "superstitious" religious zealot oppressors.
Yeah. That makes total sense. As if Freemasonry didn't have negative effects on Mexican society now, forget other countries. Mexico is in a more challenging place morally than ever before thanks to everything they've done to destroy Mexico's moral fiber to date
I feel like the cartels have the most control in Mexico currently. They even make drug lords saints there
Please put your guitar away, good sir. You have officially unearned it.
Never gave any thought to what people believe or not,
I just enjoy music and Ghost has a few song on my Playlist.
Yikes. Talk about missing the plot - If you did more thorough research on this band you'd realize nothing you said here makes any sense. And, no, sweetie, Ghost is not persecuting you and you're not a "marginalized minority" as a Catholic.
You know, I wouldn't say Ghost is mocking Catholicism, they point out the messed up and problematic things that are a part of it or happens in christian/carholic scene. E.g. instances of priests and other people in the church sexually abusing children, the cruel murders that were performed back in the day against women and people who believed different things in the name of Christianity and god, in general people who use the name of god to do all kinds of heinous, immoral things and so on and on. If you deny that catholicism / Christianity has issues and or horrible people who defend themselves by using the excuse of religion - you really do need to look into yourself.
Dude nice job on master of puppets. Honestly I think the song has a great message about warning people about drugs and how they can take hold of you
Among some of my great grandfather's WW2 memorabilia, I found a Freemason bible. It's a Christian bible. It just has weird Masonic stuff added to the first few pages. Also I think Ghost's success being due to "embracing the devil" could be interpreted differently. His devil worshiping alter-ego/ band image is highly successful because that imagery is simply exciting and draws the eye. Both morbid curiosity and enthusiasm lead people to look and pay attention to it. It's simply success due to good marketing.
Freemasons claimed to be Christian's but freemasonry is satanic
Can we give a shout out to Wytch Hazel? If you haven't heard this band, they're good. I'm not sure if the lead is catholic, but their lyrics cleverly depict the spiritual battle we're in, inviting to the winning side.
I'm not gonna say that Ghost are doing anything like deliberately trolling or trying to offend Catholics, but that it's just thematic.
Catholicism is a big part of the world and has shaped much of it; Ghost are merely playing on that.
Also, I'm laughing at the idea of Catholics being a minority. That's hilariously wrong.
Catholicism is huge and is a part of the even larger Christian community. They are NOT a minority.
If we are talking along those lines then Ghost have been punching far above their weight class for most of if not all of their career.
Some of their songs are just thematic and some are actual important topics, such as Cirice which is very likely a response to religions (not accusing you or you friends personally) taking advantage of people at their weakest which is a common technique of many religions.
You aren't being persecuted, dude. You are part of a community far FAR too big to be persecuted in any meaningful way.
Ghost isn't metal, it's pop with a metal facade...
Its rock or soft rock
@@mebenn3382 It's pop
"... but can we at least admit that to mock a community people [sic] for their most sacredly held beliefs and cultural practices for profit, is the very defining feature of everything we think of when we think of hate speech?"
No.
That's because you don't want to be held accountable for what you do, but you are anyways.
you go to hll for taking part in it, it's unforgivable blaspheming you are a material part of, why try to get out of it?
@@HunnysPlaylists is hell eternal torture?
@@HunnysPlaylists if your God is love incarnate, why does he allow the most evil concept conceived to be real?
If I'm judged for merely asking this basic question, I will go there with my head. Held. High.
@@zilvercederbom absolutely, Eternal p-ment for Eternal c-mes.
Very informative and inspiring reflections Brian thanks for all the great content on your channel! As a fellow journeying Catholic and fan of the metal and punk sub-culture, these were great points you raised on the potential subconscious or vocational intent of this music. I still very much appreciate the musical aspect of metal and in fact have been listening to Ghost's recent album but we always have to be mindful of the intention of the artist and I keep Ghost and Tobias Forge in my prayers if he is on his own journey as well since he is a very talented artist and musician.
I am also mindful of the more extreme intent of other subgenres like the Scandinavian black metal especially the Norwegian stave church burnings that resulted from actions of this community. It is very saddening to see passion in the subculture result in violent acts towards any community. There are tons of secular metal artists who think very profoundly of their lyrics and the complexity of the medium it is presented in (I can cite Gojira, Tool, Megadeth or even the late Chuck Schuldiner of Death which had rather existential reflective lyrics relative to the death metal medium). And of course on the opposite side of the spectrum legendary metal bands with extremely positive messages as others have mentioned in the comments including Demon Hunter, Living Sacrifice, Stryper, As I Lay Dying, Mortification, Extol, Narnia, the list goes on.
It is important to appreciate the beauty of art across mediums but again being discerning with the artist's intent and separating the wheat and the weeds.
I would say the same applies for being discerning on other mediums of art like books or films especially horror movies. There are a lot of ways Catholics can reflect on how to engage and empathize with the artists and communities driving such messages. For a film example, Robert Egger's The Witch is an example of a masterfully executed movie but unfortunately driving a blatantly satanic message vs. directors or films that can be equally as masterful in terms of medium, intent and message like Terrence Malick's Tree of Life or Scorsese's Silence.
It would be great to cover more reflections with regards to art and Catholicism keep up the great content and God bless everyone during this Lenten season!
What are your thoughts on Christian metal and rock? I find the lyrics and the aggressive sound very helpful to deal with stress, temptation and giving me strength to fight against temptation and hard times while preaching in a way at the same time. Red, war of ages, wolves at the gate are some great bands.
I agree with this. We as Christian can't always listen to super soft and calming music in times when we need strength and anger against sin to prevail against it. I think angry music that's angry about the right stuff can certainly be edifying.
@@CGMiller thanks completely agree too. If we are fighting and struggling against temptation, the devil or hard times we need that aggressive power to fight back.
Of itself, it is a great idea, however, I found too little that really qualifies. I do love Phil Keaggy tho.
Really digging that Les Paul custom man
Wasn't it the catholic church that suddenly proclaimed a couple of years ago that hell doesn't exist? Does the church even know then what/whom satan is, or will this character be changed maybe next year or so?
No, the Catholic Church did not proclaim that and it would be impossible for it to do that because the Church cannot change dogma. Even if the Pope himself explicitly said so, it would not change Catholic teaching. The Pope would simply be denounced as a heretic.
@@BrianHoldsworth A Pope cancelled "Limbo" not too long ago. That was certainly dogma...
@@dongirovasi2607 Firstly, no it wasn't. Secondly, which Pope and when?
Maybe I’m overthinking it, but listened to that Mary on a Cross song for a few days like all freaking day long for almost a week and I started making awful out of character decisions and could barely even bring myself to hold my rosary and needed my mom to help me pray it. I knew the lyrics in the song were bad but I just tried to ignore it and listen to the awesome tune, but you can’t dance around in your room to a song mocking Mary then go call for her aid at the end of the day, it just doesn’t work like that.
@@bjrnarbjrnarsson5845 That’s not at all what she’s saying. How kind and judgmental of you. Try again, but be courtesy and chill this time dude.
Exactly! I kinda felt the same. I didn't know this band. I had to search for the lyrics to understand clearly and be sure about what was being said (my native language is brazilian portuguese, so I thought he was saying something like "merry Marianna", or whatever).
I listened to this song a few more times, but then it became unbearable. Later, when I had to pray, I felt myself guilty and even discouraged.
I don't want to hear anything like that about my dear Mother, the Virgin Mary, ever again. There are many good songs instead of this one, which is now just garbage for me.
Tobias would run circles around you with his knowledge of religion.
And guitar skills. Anyone else cringe?
It's hilarious that you really think that.
@@OrthoLou educate yourself. :)
Forge is super ignorant. Look up his interview where he talks about Kaisarion. He gets basic info wrong.
@Mr. Helium Lol he isn't that ignorant. The songs about Hypatia.
I'm a devout Catholic. I'm also very into power metal and hard/heavy rock music. It's aways been frustrating that many of the most talented artists that really catch my ear are also purveyors of a darker worldview and laxness towards sin. A very notable exception is the Christian power metal band, Theocracy. They have (in my opinion, at least) much more thoughtful lyrics than most Christian bands, and have the musical skill to back it up. Honestly, I can't imagine the content of some of their songs being effectively conveyed in any other genre. If you haven't heard of them, go check them out!
Also a shout out to the song, "The Last Stand," by Sabaton (a secular power metal band) which is about the historic last stand made by the Swiss Guard, defending the Pope as Rome was sacked in 1527.
The Catholic church is more damaging than GHOST. PLEASE.
Amazing video my man. I absolutely love interpretations and analysis of this subject. Ghost is definitely a band that will be in the books. being a fan of them for the longest time I find them to be interesting. they are the center of attention in the music world. maybe that's what Tobias wants? I can't say his true intentions behind the band but I must say that they are geniuses in sparking interest and twisting deep meaning into their songs. ghost specifically draws me in with their guitar riffs and the voice tobias has but importantly the lyrics they write that aren't just about the devil, an example would be their song "Rats". This song talks about the bubonic plague and the religious views people at the time had on the event such as "God is mad at us so he sent a plague, this disease is our punishment". I find their music to be almost Lovecraftian, Medieval and especially Gothic in a bizarre sense. They speak about other macabre things rather than just Lucifer. I would say ghost glamorizes the disgusting and obscene. I believe that's why people like them so much. that's why i like them so much, because they're different, what they represent is definitely not to be ignored but I'm not offended, I'm not ashamed to "sit at a table" with them. I'm not on board with their message however. as a matter of fact i believe listening to ghost strengthens how i see god. when ghost sings i hear in their lyrics that the devils lies may make you feel good, and they sound good but you will be in pain and you will suffer.
Ghost and its catholic imagery brought me back to the church. I kind of view Ghost as a warning to you about Satanism.
I am not a Catholic (as far as I consciously understand), but I have heard of the seven deadly sins, and I have to say, the hair and the beard are filling me with ENVY!
Going into this, I was initially impressed thinking, ok, at least this guy is open to something outside of himself, but the whole unthinking comment really rubbed me the wrong way, you are Catholic, and that's fine and dandy, but that's not to say that everyone else has to believe the same way, and this is one of the major turn offs with religion. You have every right to say your beliefs, what you don't have the right to do, is expect everyone to follow the same belief system as you. it's not my intention to troll or be toxic, but I'm pretty sure the first thing Jesus talked about was not judging people, and too many so called Christians have a habit of calling everyone out while missing the main objective in the belief they use to call people out on, a bit of a conundrum if you ask me.
Where did I say that everyone has to believe the same thing as me? Everything on my channel is an attempt to explain my beliefs. There's no imposition in that. Regarding Jesus, no, he didn't teach us that we cannot judge the behavior or beliefs of others. Quite the opposite.
@@BrianHoldsworth I guess we simply have a different perception of the matter, I read judge not, lest thee be judged
@@jasonnielsen5976 Jesus also told us to not cast pearls before swine and to not follow false prophets. How are we to follow these commandments unless we judge certain people to be "swine" or "false prophets". The verse you quote doesn't mean we have to suspend all moral judgement. It means we should not expect others to behave in ways we do not ourselves - IOW, don't be a hypocrite. It also means we should not make judgements about things or circumstances that we don't have enough information about. But everything else we do in life requires us to apprehend, understand, judge, and behave accordingly. You, yourself, are making judgements about the correctness or falseness of my commentary and you're right to do so. And, if we both make judgments, share our thoughts, and dialogue out of good will, we will be made better for it.
@@BrianHoldsworth Have fun with that, since we're sitting here casting judgement, what about alter boy loving priests?
@@jasonnielsen5976 So, just to be clear, you're doing the exact thing you say I can't do. But I agree; I judge that to be a heinous crime against the Catholic faithful.
He drunk the catholic cool aid.
I have a question. I am a Christian have been along time. I’m a music lover, almost any type. I’m not fond of the lyrics and I have respect for my catholic brothers and sisters. I also enjoy the sound of ghosts music. I don’t take them seriously. God bless you.
While it could be that Tobias Forge orchestrates his music with an intention of malicious mockery, the way he conducts himself in interviews and on stage is a disarming facade that tells his fans "its not serious, don't take it seriously". Those who listen to ghost and share the same animosity had that animosity in their heart but those who don't won't find themselves converted if they see it as a joke and not a serious endeavor to mock and harm others. That disconnect between what could be his personal motive and how he openly influences fans is a key distinction that I respect, should his true motive be what is theorized.
I'm sorry...8:11. You're not motivated by your passions??
Of course they deny there is a devil. Satan wouldn't have it any other way.
God: "I am Who am."
Satan: "I am who am not."
As someone who is both a practicing Catholic and who listened to metal for years, i really enjoyed this.
Sincere question - With regards to "Square Hammer," if the ritual truly is so secretive, why would Forge write a hit song about it? Honest question.
Metallica was my life for about a decade, I too learned to play their music, I studied the ‘deeper’ meanings of their lyrics etc. I still listen occasionally but only alone, usually when I’m feeling depressed. Great video.
What are the deeper meanings of their lyrics? Honestly, I think their lyrics are actually harmless, pertaining to the faith. They even have a song about the plagues in Exodus.
@@OrthoLou - I agree, most of their songs are perfectly harmless. Creeping Death is the song your referring to, Metallica also has a song ‘The God that failed’ which is very negative toward religion, and ‘Enter Sandman’ takes a children’s prayer and makes it creepy. So I choose not to listen to some of their songs but 95% of them are harmless, but I still wouldn’t listen with my kids.
As a man who has deconverted from Christianity to Agnosticism and is an avid fan of Ghost, I am not offended by your stance. It's definitely a mockery of the Catholic faith, but it's all artistic. It's also not so much that he says it's a joke, but more so that he has an interest in the abnormal. Christianity is absolutely HUGE and is one of the top religions in the world to follow, but what is the exact opposite and has significantly fewer followers? Satanism. In an interview (I've seen it before here on TH-cam, can't find it currently), he stated that ever since he was a child, he was enamored with the idea of something so evil to the rest of the world in any other circumstance would be considered loving and reliable to a small percentage of people. He invested himself in understanding the religion and its ins and outs and dedicated his work to the religion, but he himself does not believe what he has learned. It's like going to work for a construction company. If someone shows you a hammer and you think it's the coolest thing in the world and you go and do tons of research on the history of a hammer and you dedicate your life's work to understanding hammers, you yourself are not a believer of hammers. You may be obsessed, but not sacrificing things to hammers. You just love them. Same with Tobias. He loves the idea of Satanism. Simple as that. He's probably just so tired of explaining it to people that he's inaccurately narrowed it down to "it's a joke."
This held water until you came to freemasonry. I think you are missing the big picture. Tobias is not only mocking Catholicism, he is mocking religion. In particular how religions, not only Catholicism, is used for corruption, misuse of power, and misinformation. So in a way it is a mockery of institutions, not the followers or maybe not even religion itself. But I don't know that for sure, just as you don't know that Tobias Forge is a Freemason for sure. Or if there are any Catholics that are Freemasons.
I was raised Catholic in a very heavily catholic family and I think it’s part of the reason I was so drawn to Ghost. Their commentary on organised religion and their way of telling a story through their albums really speaks to me and no…I don’t see it as trolling, I see it as a man who enjoys certain aesthetics, as he’s admitted to enjoying classic horror. It’s a way of being creative and theatric and he works it very, very well. I think that’s all there is to it. You go to one of their shows and they’re very inclusive to everyone there, very warm and welcoming and they put on such an incredibly fun show. One of the best concerts I’ve been to. They don’t take themselves too seriously and I don’t think anyone else should either, just enjoy some catchy music and talented musicians with some poetic lyrics.
Love the idea of J.C., love the idea of Ghost, more importantly I love not taking things too literally :)
But Ghost, Tobias Forge, DOES take it literally.
@@Tartersauce101 Respectfully, let's agree to disagree. Tobias is a talented musician with a flare for taboo themes and theatrical delivery (aka Alice Cooper, Kiss). But, it's really nothing more sinister than marketing and brand awareness cashing in on the supernatural - much the same as Halloween.
@@daveyiam THERE'S NO COMPARISON OF> HALLOWEEN TO> "satanism"‼ THATS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY🗣"LOUDLY & PROUDLY BEING A JESUS✝️➕THE CHRIST👤☝🏼👑BELIEVER & FOLLOWER OF 💯BIBLICAL📜📖TRUTHS‼
@@dianakaycadle5302 Let's agree to disagree my Sister in Christ. For 99.99% of fans, Halloween and Ghost are demonstrably alike. But then again, satire's not for everyone... Love and light with your BIBLICAL TRUTHS and for fixing that caps lock button ;) ✝✝✝
13:03 And The American Revolution.
"Would most of us get offended by that"
I don't think that's the right question. I think we should be asking - is GOD offended by mockery of Catholicism?
He's offering questions for non-Catholics to consider. He made that very clear in the beginning of the video.
Nor do I think that asking leading questions, that answer themselves, to stir outrage as particularly effective tools in evangelization.
Not reasonable to believe that a God, a being of superior spiritual level, moral, intelligence, gets offended by art the same way it should when a person harms another person or destroy the nature, when people that create that art are good people.
@Rachel James Catholics haven't been oppressed tho?
@@Rafael-pi4md I don't know, God destroyed entire people groups for mocking Him and crafting idols.
@@MikeRogersMusic Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on interpretations of God.
I dunno, I listen to it all. Black Metal, Heavy metal, metalcore, punk, doom metal, stoner metal and so on. Christian here, I love it all and has no bearing on my beliefs nor the way I choose to walk through life. Its the music that trips my trigger. I could care less what they are saying or portraying. If I like the sound I like the sound. The cruncher it is the better is for me. Be strong enough to know yourself, your faith and enjoy. Same as accepting friends who do not believe or walk the same path.
This guy takes himself way too seriously. . He is too judgemental and needs to stop being so overbearing and manipulating people to do what he thinks they should do . Kind of arrogant and elitist.
Glad to know I'm not the only Catholic heavy metal fan!
It seems common for people's musical and entertainment tastes to change following conversion. My own tastes have certainly changed, to where I hear one of my former favorite songs and wonder, "What was I thinking?" When you mentioned getting an earworm from a Ghost song, the first thought in my mind was a deliverance prayer (see below). Then as I listened to the sample, it occurred to me that the devil knows what appeals to us. That's why he can tempt us. So yeah, the tune is neutral, but that's where the devil is disguised. Délivrance and protection prayers lessen the influence of the devil to the degree to which we're disposed to devotion to God. I pray this one daily:
O my Jesus, I ask that if any demon tries to affect me from now until I fall asleep, while I sleep, and during my dreams, that Thou wouldst punish him by making him focus on that which causes him the most pain, all during the time he tries to affect me and for ten minutes more. I also ask Thee not to allow him to retaliate.
I found this and others in the Sensus Traditionis Press book, *Deliverance Prayers for Use by the Laity,* compiled by Fr. Chad Ripperger. The thing I like about this particular prayer is that, if I have to be affected by any demon, even in the smallest and most insignificant way, then Jesus will make the demon suffer for trying to drag me to hell.
As always, Brian, 3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻
That is because conversion is essentially brain washing.
There many videos put out by ghost here on YT and most of them are hilarious and lampoon themselves worst of all. They take the music seriously for sure and there is a theme which may or may not be to your liking. To each their own. But they really don’t take themselves seriously. It’s an act. The objective is entertainment, not corrupting souls. You definitely don’t have to like it but I think it’s ok if you do.
I am a faithful Catholic, but really enjoy metal music. I have to be VERY selective in the bands I listen to, and preclude a lot based on their lyrical content and beliefs. Fortunately there are plenty of options that steer clear of satanic content. Glad to hear some more Catholic opinions on the topic!
Same, I even go to metal archives to check the lyrics within the song and album just to make sure it doesn't contridict the faith
@Rachel James I’m sensing some cognitive bias and hypocrisy.🤔
Try listening to Kryst the Conqueror
Why does it bother you if texts are satanic? Listening to them doesn't make you satanic or anything else. It's just someone else expressing a different viewpoint. You don't have to agree with it. I think you're missing out on a wide selection of great works of art.
Also: What makes something satanic? Where would you draw a line? Does it have to be explicitly satanic like the album "The Satanist" by Behemoth? Or are anarchist and anti-religious themes coming from and referencing a completely different religious and cultural background - like the music of the saudi band Al-Namrood - satanic, even though they never even mention Satan? What about music that explicitly makes use of christian liturgy, but in a context that arguably inverts the themes commonly associated with them, like Батюшка (Batushka). The latter is a polish black metal band that sings russian-orthodox liturgy, but re-contextualises them, giving them a hypnotic, at some points outright threatening aura.
@@captainahab1533 I prefer not to consume media thay I see as counter to my my beliefs. Its no different than a vegetarian not eating meat.
I'd draw the line at overtly expressed satanic beliefs or homage to satanic ideals, overt blasphemy, or satanic band members. I listen to a fair share of "black" metal that don't express these things, and even stopped listening to some bands I enjoyed, like Powerwolf, because of the the borderline blasphemous image and content they use, even though I really enjoyed their music.
Hi Brian.. I feel the same about the subject ..was very much into Canada's own Rush..May occasionally listen to rock music..because of my teenage life. Like your video on classical music..this is my preferred music..especially schubert ave maria...