On the Spell warding for those who think 4% is low. For Physical damage, this would be the equivalent of 8806 armor. Imagine you could not block, parry or dodge. You'd take that 8806 armor in a heartbeat. Or let me put it that way: This is more armor than ANY shield in TBC (Including the Legendary one you get during the keal thas fight). And now consider that this is a form of damage reduction that you normally can't get anywhere else (excluding resistance gear) AND even in special cases (like Resi gear fights) it stacks above the cap. Do not underestimate Spell Warding.
I think it all comes to the "how difficult tbc classic is gonna be", eather for talents as for itemization, keep it up with the prot pally guides luv your content
Deep prot is almost always viable for the MT - the same was true in the beginning of classic. There is absolutely no survivability loss in going fury-prot however, and the same was true at the beginning. The threat is very similar between fury-prot and deep prot when wearing a shield - deep prot does not and did not do significantly better in the beginning here either. The problem you often encountered as fury-prot in the beginning of classic was that people went for threat gear, and therefore didn't get the sufficient survivability gear for tanking some of the more hard hitting bosses. This was a choice however, and had nothing to do with the spec particularly. There were also several issues initially with getting enough hit to get the full benefit out of fury-prot - especially for horde players. This is obviously not a problem any more, as we have significantly more options now, but that was not a significant survivability issue. In short, the problem initially with fury-prot warriors were not actually the spec, as they were getting the exact same significant defensive talents. Rather, the problems was the gear and wearing a shield in the right situations. As you can problably tell, I was one of the people going fury-prot early - letting the bias shine through here - and I had this exact arguement with my officiers back in the beginning. I was not the main tank however, and as an OT I would argue that fury-prot will always be superior simply in its ability gain rage when not being hit. Thank you for the great content btw. I love your videos, and I am currently living the dream as a protection paladin in Naxx. So hyped for the possibility of a classic TBC!
@@Costin_Gaming We had a lot of main tanks do it as well on my server, without regard for the loss in survivability from the more threat heavy gear. It was a problem for many. However, if you didn’t fall into that trap, you were just as chunky as fury-prot as you would be as deep prot. The TPS was very similar with a shield as well. There was some other issues with fury-prot such as stance dancing not being possible to the same degree and stuff like that. In general however, the differences were very small when the spec was played correctly. I did miss wearing a shield though. You do not feel particularly like a tank as fury-prot. Any way, those days are over. Protection paladin is where it is at!
@@Costin_Gaming You do not gain surviablity going deep prot in classic, 17 points is all you need. You go into fury for better rage gain with flurry, survabilty is just on the gear side of things. In classic gear is what makes you do more threat or be more "tanky" with fury prot being the clear better spec for rage gain and threat output when being tanky.
Is one handed specialization really that good? Would it be better to go improved ret aura for an overall aggro buff?. I know that RF only affects holy damage... and usually spellpower weapons have lower dps anyway. EDIT: I am now noticing that it increases ALL damage done when a one hander is equipped, definitely worth picking up!
For a speed run environment would you go sanctity aura? Or avengers shield? Overall I was leaning towards having the ret pally judge imp crusader and have sanctity aura and me with imp retribution and avengers shield.
Great content! on pally tbc disc there has been some discussion around improved judgement fucking up your rotation making it hard to have holy shield and cons up while having optimal gcds for judgment and reapplying seals. What is your take on this? Since you didn’t discuss those 2 points in the video
That's just people unable to deal with spell priorities (that change depending on the encounter) instead of strict rotations. Improved Judgement will give you extra judgements and those are worth more than the alternative of 1% crit for a threat oriented build. I also wouldn't trust the discord too much. I looked at some of their gear recommendations and they just aren't great.
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Improved judgement is convenient but absolutley not necessary, points can be better spent elsewhere if u don’t need to go al the way down in ret for Pursuit of Justice or Sanctity imo :)
You said in your main tanking video that you prefer a paladin MT illidan compared to a warrior. Why is that? Some othet guy said that sheer cannot miss so u need uncrushable without counting miss, and therefore warrior is more suitable. What would your response be to this?
I thought of a dangerous build with vengeance crusade and sanctity aura. If the content gets too easy/boring. If you can crit every 30sec you get at least a fun 12% dmg buff. I think the 5/5 armor talent is just a 1.2% physical dmg reduction, the defense talent is important to get uncrittable. Armor benefit is reverse exponential
If you accept the idea that 6% dmg reduction is worth it from Righteous Fury, which it is, or that 2% physical reduction from Ironshield is I cannot fathom how you feel 4% spell dmg reduction isn't.
That's not how you should see it, there is no situation in the game where you take only 1 spell, you need to understand that's 4% reduction for the entirety of the encounter from all magical sources. Check that number on your parser/log and you will see how things add up to ridiculous numbers.
improved ret + pursuit of justice .. which is im almost sure provide more threat(im sure on +3 mobs it is more threat) [ +15% movement is HUUUUGE broken even + 50% damage of ret aura (which i will be using on raid/heroic anyways) ] > 5% damage .. for me this is a no brainer.. i think the 50% ret aura alone is better than +5% damage..
@@laughingoctopus785 I don't think numbers add up, 13 thorns dmg increase doesn't look that strong vs 10% increase to all your holy dmg. Even if it increased ONLY consecration dmg (and it doesn't) and consecration had 0% spell power coefficient (when in reality it's 95%), goin imp ret aura would still be worse than sanctity aura, threat wise. You have multiple holy dmg sources, so i don't see in which world imp ret aura is better than going with sanctity aura, threat wise. That being said, i'm goin with avenger's shield, i like the snap threat and i like the utility it gives. But from a sustained threat point of view, there's really no match between imp ret and sanct aura. Also, dropping devotion to get so little out of it, yikes, no thanks
@@Ashanthala dude ret aura is free + another source of threat/damage not a multiplier of existing .. and u dont need to put 23 points in ret to get ret aura you comparison is not valid .. my friend devo is literally for plebs if you are not using ironshield pots on cd you are pleb ..
@@laughingoctopus785 i don't think itemizing to get hit in order to deal 39 dmg each 2 seconds is better than itemizing to not get hit and get a 10% threat bonus. 21* points in a tree that you're already investing in seem fine to me, especially since i would only give up AS, easily replaceable with engineering
I leveled up in classic as prot. Tanked MC, BWL, AQ and a bit of Naxx before our guild expansion logged. Currently playing/leveling as a prot paladin on a private server. I can say without a doubt, Tanking as a paladin requires excellent GCD discipline, raid awareness and ability knowledge. Asperity - Rattlegore // if you wanted to see my logs.
Careful with the bs thrown and said around you should always make your own experience about it. Prot paladin can be very fun. It can also off heal at any moment with a healing set. Its extremely versatile if you play smart and original also people will revere you
On the Spell warding for those who think 4% is low.
For Physical damage, this would be the equivalent of 8806 armor.
Imagine you could not block, parry or dodge. You'd take that 8806 armor in a heartbeat. Or let me put it that way: This is more armor than ANY shield in TBC (Including the Legendary one you get during the keal thas fight).
And now consider that this is a form of damage reduction that you normally can't get anywhere else (excluding resistance gear) AND even in special cases (like Resi gear fights) it stacks above the cap.
Do not underestimate Spell Warding.
If I get hit by spell for 7000 and with spell warding I reduce that dmg by 4% that would be 280 less dmg taken.
Having played warior tank in classic and pala in tbc, its good to remember: Dead men dont keep threat
I think it all comes to the "how difficult tbc classic is gonna be", eather for talents as for itemization, keep it up with the prot pally guides luv your content
Thank you for bringing up the survivability vs threat issue!
Hello,
Which Addon is used to see your Buffs and your seal on target in bars instead of icons?
Is the UI you are using in the video available for us to import?
Deep prot is almost always viable for the MT - the same was true in the beginning of classic. There is absolutely no survivability loss in going fury-prot however, and the same was true at the beginning. The threat is very similar between fury-prot and deep prot when wearing a shield - deep prot does not and did not do significantly better in the beginning here either. The problem you often encountered as fury-prot in the beginning of classic was that people went for threat gear, and therefore didn't get the sufficient survivability gear for tanking some of the more hard hitting bosses. This was a choice however, and had nothing to do with the spec particularly. There were also several issues initially with getting enough hit to get the full benefit out of fury-prot - especially for horde players. This is obviously not a problem any more, as we have significantly more options now, but that was not a significant survivability issue.
In short, the problem initially with fury-prot warriors were not actually the spec, as they were getting the exact same significant defensive talents. Rather, the problems was the gear and wearing a shield in the right situations.
As you can problably tell, I was one of the people going fury-prot early - letting the bias shine through here - and I had this exact arguement with my officiers back in the beginning. I was not the main tank however, and as an OT I would argue that fury-prot will always be superior simply in its ability gain rage when not being hit.
Thank you for the great content btw. I love your videos, and I am currently living the dream as a protection paladin in Naxx. So hyped for the possibility of a classic TBC!
For OTs would have been fine, problem was that I saw a lot of MTs doing it too, but you're right on the gear factor.
@@Costin_Gaming We had a lot of main tanks do it as well on my server, without regard for the loss in survivability from the more threat heavy gear. It was a problem for many.
However, if you didn’t fall into that trap, you were just as chunky as fury-prot as you would be as deep prot. The TPS was very similar with a shield as well. There was some other issues with fury-prot such as stance dancing not being possible to the same degree and stuff like that. In general however, the differences were very small when the spec was played correctly.
I did miss wearing a shield though. You do not feel particularly like a tank as fury-prot.
Any way, those days are over. Protection paladin is where it is at!
@@Costin_Gaming You do not gain surviablity going deep prot in classic, 17 points is all you need. You go into fury for better rage gain with flurry, survabilty is just on the gear side of things. In classic gear is what makes you do more threat or be more "tanky" with fury prot being the clear better spec for rage gain and threat output when being tanky.
Thanks dude, any chance you can make alevelling guide around aoe prot which includes talents, gear etc up to 70?
Is one handed specialization really that good? Would it be better to go improved ret aura for an overall aggro buff?. I know that RF only affects holy damage... and usually spellpower weapons have lower dps anyway. EDIT: I am now noticing that it increases ALL damage done when a one hander is equipped, definitely worth picking up!
For a speed run environment would you go sanctity aura? Or avengers shield? Overall I was leaning towards having the ret pally judge imp crusader and have sanctity aura and me with imp retribution and avengers shield.
I wouldn't rely on having a ret pala in your group,
Great content! on pally tbc disc there has been some discussion around improved judgement fucking up your rotation making it hard to have holy shield and cons up while having optimal gcds for judgment and reapplying seals. What is your take on this? Since you didn’t discuss those 2 points in the video
That's just people unable to deal with spell priorities (that change depending on the encounter) instead of strict rotations.
Improved Judgement will give you extra judgements and those are worth more than the alternative of 1% crit for a threat oriented build.
I also wouldn't trust the discord too much. I looked at some of their gear recommendations and they just aren't great.
Improved judgement is convenient but absolutley not necessary, points can be better spent elsewhere if u don’t need to go al the way down in ret for Pursuit of Justice or Sanctity imo :)
Salut! Pe ce server joci?
You said in your main tanking video that you prefer a paladin MT illidan compared to a warrior. Why is that? Some othet guy said that sheer cannot miss so u need uncrushable without counting miss, and therefore warrior is more suitable. What would your response be to this?
Shear can miss. I tanked Illidan on retail, never struggled on this.
I thought of a dangerous build with vengeance crusade and sanctity aura. If the content gets too easy/boring. If you can crit every 30sec you get at least a fun 12% dmg buff.
I think the 5/5 armor talent is just a 1.2% physical dmg reduction, the defense talent is important to get uncrittable. Armor benefit is reverse exponential
If you take 2k spell damage with that skill it's 1920 instead. Not worth 2 talent points IMO
If you accept the idea that 6% dmg reduction is worth it from Righteous Fury, which it is, or that 2% physical reduction from Ironshield is I cannot fathom how you feel 4% spell dmg reduction isn't.
That's ok
That's not how you should see it, there is no situation in the game where you take only 1 spell, you need to understand that's 4% reduction for the entirety of the encounter from all magical sources. Check that number on your parser/log and you will see how things add up to ridiculous numbers.
Reckaning is better than 1h spec
Or instead of going sanc aura, get improved ret aura and keep AS
improved ret + pursuit of justice .. which is im almost sure provide more threat(im sure on +3 mobs it is more threat) [ +15% movement is HUUUUGE broken even + 50% damage of ret aura (which i will be using on raid/heroic anyways) ] > 5% damage .. for me this is a no brainer.. i think the 50% ret aura alone is better than +5% damage..
@@laughingoctopus785 I don't think numbers add up, 13 thorns dmg increase doesn't look that strong vs 10% increase to all your holy dmg. Even if it increased ONLY consecration dmg (and it doesn't) and consecration had 0% spell power coefficient (when in reality it's 95%), goin imp ret aura would still be worse than sanctity aura, threat wise. You have multiple holy dmg sources, so i don't see in which world imp ret aura is better than going with sanctity aura, threat wise. That being said, i'm goin with avenger's shield, i like the snap threat and i like the utility it gives. But from a sustained threat point of view, there's really no match between imp ret and sanct aura. Also, dropping devotion to get so little out of it, yikes, no thanks
@@Ashanthala dude ret aura is free + another source of threat/damage not a multiplier of existing .. and u dont need to put 23 points in ret to get ret aura you comparison is not valid .. my friend devo is literally for plebs if you are not using ironshield pots on cd you are pleb ..
@@laughingoctopus785 i don't think itemizing to get hit in order to deal 39 dmg each 2 seconds is better than itemizing to not get hit and get a 10% threat bonus. 21* points in a tree that you're already investing in seem fine to me, especially since i would only give up AS, easily replaceable with engineering
respect for playing prot paladin i cant play it its so boring xD
I leveled up in classic as prot. Tanked MC, BWL, AQ and a bit of Naxx before our guild expansion logged. Currently playing/leveling as a prot paladin on a private server.
I can say without a doubt, Tanking as a paladin requires excellent GCD discipline, raid awareness and ability knowledge.
Asperity - Rattlegore // if you wanted to see my logs.
@@GenesisDG yea its not boring but hard and annoying for me its feels like work so i hate playing it
@@GOLEM-yf4mx - That is as good a reason as any. If it isn't fun, don't do it.
Careful with the bs thrown and said around you should always make your own experience about it. Prot paladin can be very fun. It can also off heal at any moment with a healing set. Its extremely versatile if you play smart and original also people will revere you
@@MrFree-vj8qj I left that out. I deeply enjoy being a paladin tank. Love it from wearing greens to purples.