This is excellent. Your point of view in training is very good. I can see from many angles what you are doing. Also, your explanations are so logical that I can understand why I am doing this.
yeah actually he mentioned that the ability for a dog to learn how to turn off pressure in general is required esp at a young age cause if they never learn how and they get older and go thru their whole life not knowing, when the time comes.. they get stressed more than usual and unable to cope so they either get timid or aggressive sometimes. might want to start with a very small nylon slip instead of training collar depending on your dog's hardness.
If you look at Michael Ellis' full spectrum, this is only a part of the process. You introduce this in the gentle fashion shown to assist in training. As far as a slip collar, the prong, used correctly is more humane in my opinion because you have to pull less, and they are safer than a choke type collar.
Downwards leash pressure looks like a good way to get bitten to me. And the dog is not fully lying and also showing signs of being in pain. Downwards pressure on a flat collar would have been more efficient, because you can maintain the pressure without the dog being in pain, and it's only a mild discomfort and within a few seconds the dog gives in and will lie down, and you've then got the position you want, rather than having to shape it like in the video because the dog is in too much pain.
Humans, they can always find an excuse why hurting another being to 'teach them' is perfectly acceptable. I would love to see him demonstrate this 'technique' with an animal that is big enough to kick his ass! My dog totally flipped out when she heard that puppy scream! I have seen a lot of abuse in my life, committed in the name of 'training'. We know better today and there is no excuse for this anymore!
herdingdrive This really isn't abuse, in my opinion. Slowly adding a bit of pressure to help a dog understand the leash does not injure it, but only leads the dog to know how to act. I have seen the pictures of misuse of prong collars, but i have also seen pictures from misuse of nylon buckle collars. If you really understand what being a companion to your dog is, then you will naturally understand that a knowledgeable and communicative relationship is best. The collar is just a tool of communication.
This isn't how I build a relationship with any dog. Giving in to leash pressure can be taught just as well without making a puppy scream, All you need to do is apply gentle pressure, get the dog to move in the direction you want him to most likely by luring and then rewarding him. Repeat several times and most dogs will learn very quickly what is expected of them. Done in a fun, reward based way it builds so much motivation and results in a dog that can't wait to get asked to do something else! A Force trained dog only learns how to avoid the 'bad' side of the human in question. A dog trained with rewards (it does NOT only have to be food) learns that life with this human is fun, educational and most of all SAFE. FYI, I know quite a bit about learning theory, behavior and am working towards becoming a trainer myself. Sadly, I know I will be busy as aggression due to force based training is a huge problem. If trainers like Nando Brown can get the job done without pain, there is no excuse for doing it any other way and hence I do call this abuse.
I wouldn't call this abuse. The dog is still happy and working and shepherds do tend to be quite a bit more vocal than average. I do agree a more gradual technique could have introduced the stress he wanted without getting vocalizing from the dog. Then the switch to the prong would have been a lot smoother. In general his videos are amazing and this is the first I've disagreed with the handling. You can see he realizes it when he backs off a bit. He also may have thought a dog at this level had already been introduced to leash pressure for the down. @@herdingdrive
Thanks for uploading the video mate
This is excellent. Your point of view in training is very good. I can see from many angles what you are doing. Also, your explanations are so logical that I can understand why I am doing this.
yeah actually he mentioned that the ability for a dog to learn how to turn off pressure in general is required esp at a young age cause if they never learn how and they get older and go thru their whole life not knowing, when the time comes.. they get stressed more than usual and unable to cope so they either get timid or aggressive sometimes. might want to start with a very small nylon slip instead of training collar depending on your dog's hardness.
Do you always teach luring before leash pressure?
If you look at Michael Ellis' full spectrum, this is only a part of the process. You introduce this in the gentle fashion shown to assist in training. As far as a slip collar, the prong, used correctly is more humane in my opinion because you have to pull less, and they are safer than a choke type collar.
Downwards leash pressure looks like a good way to get bitten to me. And the dog is not fully lying and also showing signs of being in pain. Downwards pressure on a flat collar would have been more efficient, because you can maintain the pressure without the dog being in pain, and it's only a mild discomfort and within a few seconds the dog gives in and will lie down, and you've then got the position you want, rather than having to shape it like in the video because the dog is in too much pain.
Nice dog shame about the trainer. If your dog is screaming that’s the clue
this is an insane training video
Humans, they can always find an excuse why hurting another being to 'teach them' is perfectly acceptable.
I would love to see him demonstrate this 'technique' with an animal that is big enough to kick his ass!
My dog totally flipped out when she heard that puppy scream!
I have seen a lot of abuse in my life, committed in the name of 'training'.
We know better today and there is no excuse for this anymore!
herdingdrive This really isn't abuse, in my opinion. Slowly adding a bit of pressure to help a dog understand the leash does not injure it, but only leads the dog to know how to act. I have seen the pictures of misuse of prong collars, but i have also seen pictures from misuse of nylon buckle collars. If you really understand what being a companion to your dog is, then you will naturally understand that a knowledgeable and communicative relationship is best. The collar is just a tool of communication.
This isn't how I build a relationship with any dog. Giving in to leash pressure can be taught just as well without making a puppy scream,
All you need to do is apply gentle pressure, get the dog to move in the direction you want him to most likely by luring and then rewarding him. Repeat several times and most dogs will learn very quickly what is expected of them. Done in a fun, reward based way it builds so much motivation and results in a dog that can't wait to get asked to do something else!
A Force trained dog only learns how to avoid the 'bad' side of the human in question.
A dog trained with rewards (it does NOT only have to be food) learns that life with this human is fun, educational and most of all SAFE.
FYI, I know quite a bit about learning theory, behavior and am working towards becoming a trainer myself. Sadly, I know I will be busy as aggression due to force based training is a huge problem.
If trainers like Nando Brown can get the job done without pain, there is no excuse for doing it any other way and hence I do call this abuse.
I wouldn't call this abuse. The dog is still happy and working and shepherds do tend to be quite a bit more vocal than average. I do agree a more gradual technique could have introduced the stress he wanted without getting vocalizing from the dog. Then the switch to the prong would have been a lot smoother. In general his videos are amazing and this is the first I've disagreed with the handling. You can see he realizes it when he backs off a bit. He also may have thought a dog at this level had already been introduced to leash pressure for the down. @@herdingdrive
And that is why michael ellis is one of the worlds best dog trainers and you are a nobody complaining on the internet....
@@hylkema101 stay in the dark ages lol
Just watch dog whisperer