body filler is perfectly adequate for the job of filling holes like that , few hints though: 1: put out the amount you figure you need on a small piece of scrap cardboard and add appropriate amount of hardener, that way you don't destroy the whole can of it 2: fill holes with a push coat, sand and repeat with smooth coats as fillers tend to shrink as they cure, you can get that area perfectly level but it takes some time , no matter the filler you use 3:sanding, do NOT use a nail board like that as initial sanding , use an emery cloth 400 grit and up to 1000 if needed, the flexibility can give you the leeway of shaping and contouring a lot better 4: use the edge of a flat file to profile the fins , the round file will concave the fins instead of profiling them to cut square edges , here you can use the nail board to level the tops 5: multiple coats and sand between coats of primer, this will show you low spots you can touch up with filler and smooth off , that way you do not get the divots like that 6: painting , do not use short burst like that , thats how you get thick , thin and bare spots , spray past the edges , even coats , light sand in between coats , don't sand the top coat unless you intend to polish pretty good for a first attempt , but don't give up on this method , practice it on a few pieces of scrap that you can make mistakes on and tweak the method to your liking
I recently repaired the case of an Atari STE with a filler for metals!( with fibers) I applied it from the inner side of the case and instead of tape I placed pieces of plastic with a natural surface grain(lightly oiled to avoid bidding with the filler) on the outer side of the case. The result was amazing, no sanding was necessary of course....only the color is off and if I decide to paint the whole case no one will be able to spot the body work (until they look inside of course). Now the metal filler gets really hot when mixed with the hardener and I got really worried that it would deform the plastic case. It turns out that that heat did help the filler and the plastic to bind really well! Great work over all!
Yeah applying from inner side is a way to go and as you have used plastic on outer side Jan could use some mould material to copy the grill part to avoid much sanding. Also he could use maybe some small dremmel to send out grill part instead laborious hand sanding.
Pro tip: Scoop out a small amount of filler out of the tin, put it onto a disposable plate and mix that with a little bit of the hardener instead of putting the hardener straight into the tin of filler (note the ratio of filler:hardener mentioned on the side of tin). That way you'll still have plenty of filler and hardener left to repair future cases/dings in your car. :)
Was just thinking the same, seeing Jan waste a whole tin of poly-fill just to fill a few tiny holes hurt me inside so much... And I agree, a piece of cardboard, disposable plate or anything like that is the way to go with it.
Agreed. I thought whoa man that's a whole tin gone. I might have just over filled the holes a little proud and spread it underneath a bit to stop it falling out later. But yeah, a little more time and it would have been an invisible repair. Spray from side to side in one go to get an even thin coat and build up the layers. Thanks for sharing Jan.
@@grotekleum Or filled it for a rough first one, let that cure, then go over it with another round of filler till it's level with the surrounding. Didn't cringe so much but winced a bit and then thought "have done that myself once too".
Well done! Black looks sharp. Longer sweeping motion sprays not starting or stopping over the thing you’re painting will prevent blotchy parts and drips.
Sorry but I laughed hard when you emptied the hardener into the can, you absolute mad man :D But very solid video, immer wieder schön deine videos Jan!
Me too! Jan - best to use a little material and hardener on a piece of cardboard or similar. that way you can use the filler again another day. The sanding can be done wet as well which might gain a smother finish. (Not being a dick - just a few tips for next time)
Try to use something with a square edge like a popsicle stick and wrap it in some sandpaper to help you sand those fins back into shape. Also a second pass with a fine filler would help you to get those divots flush and manage to build some of the details back in more easily.
Usually with those type of fillers you mix a golf ball of filler with a pea of hardener. A second application of the filler and those holes would be gone
Aloha ! For those of you having a damaged case but want the original look; You can use RAL 1019 Grey beige. I find it to be a very close match to the original color from the factory... (Unless you have an Aldi C64 hahaha) As for the motive, a breadbin isn't smooth, first use some modelling clay on a clean undamaged part of the case, then after you have painted it, ever so gently press the clay on the wet paint. The little pattern will then be transferred so to speak. Cheeeeeeeeeers Jecepede
A good filler for plastics is super glue and bicarbonate of soda. Tape up the holes as you did and then fill with bicarb. Clean away any excess. Add a drop of super glue. Repeat until the hole is filled. The model maker glue applicators with the thin metal pipette style nozzle are great for adding the glue without mess. I might have tried making a silicon mold of the fin area with silicon caulk on a stiff backing and then back filled with two part epoxy, but that was pretty damaged! Great job and a nice choice of colour. Thanks JB!
I took computer science in college before Apple, PC and certainly this fine computer. We had one mainframe at the university and used keypunch cards for our student programs. This was such an exciting time when these came out: the Apple 2, the Osborne, the TRS-80, this computer, the Sinclair. I still love DOS...it just seems so much personal than our anonymous computers now that like to act like they're personal when we know they're not. Thanks for saving this one, and best wishes from the Houston area.
The secret was to make a negative impression of the grooves on the left side, mount it over the hole on the right side, then fill it in from the back side. But for someone who isn't an expert at restoration, and who wasn't in the mood to do 1 different steps of filling, sanding, priming, wet sanding, re filled, filing, sand again, priming again, base coat, and top coat and seal coat, you did a great job. :)
Fresh epoxy putty does a pretty good job on case repairs. It is also suitable to be „wrapped around“ broken screw posts after glueing the bits together to enforce them. Nowadays, I do it with 3D-printed tubes, but well… epoxy putty is as good. In my experience, groves, dents and craters are very visible after spray painting, so filling the holes well and sanding it plain with a block that supports the sandpaper to get it more even. For spray painting, a big cardboard box can be helpful to keep the dust away.
Generally for filler like that you mix it in small amounts on a piece of cardboard, let it cure, do some rough sanding, and then re-apply another small amount. It takes some work, but you can get everything very smooth. Also, you need to make sure the filler is properly mixed with the hardener. The hardeners I've seen are colored, so when you mix it it with the filler you just have to get even color.
A trick to use if someone else want to repair a "complex" hole like that grille on the case is to make a silicone mold of the pattern and then attach the mold to the hole, and add the filler from the underside. It's also possible to make a mold of the general texture and use for the holes. The trick is to add the filler from the inside and avoid sanding on the upper side.
Hey Jan, perhaps on the grid lines you could have place wooden toothpick and as you place the epoxy, try to shape it as much as you can with the tootpicks before it dries. Also you could have scoop out and mixed a little bit of the epoxy in a seperate container. So that way after sanding, you could have mixed more again later when you still see defects. Otherwise, it turn out very well with the paint job you did! 😁👍
Sockets are not necessarily an indication that chips have been replaced previously. Apparently, back in the day, if CBM didn't have some chips when they were doing a production run they'd fit a socket and come back to the board when they had the chips back in stock and install them.
True, but there was lots of flux residue on the back for those sockets, but not anywhere else. AFAIK when CBM did that the sockets were wave soldered together with everything else except the RF modulator so if it was "factory socket" they ought to have been like all the other, not different. Hand-soldering the sockets when they didn't need to do it by hand would have cost money/time (pretty sure the RF modulator is hand soldered because it couldn't be wave soldered). Now, it could have been a CBM repair before it left the factory (I assume they did SOME testing to detect failures), after all CBM didn't clean up the flux after they hand soldered the RF modulator either so it's consistent with their practice. But the evidence suggests it was likely not just CMB leaving those sockets open.
tidy job fella. Worked out in the end. Well done sir The spoken duration of the video is: 2465 seconds - 822.87of silence 5722 total words spoken in HMS: 00:27:22 of total time: 00:41:05 excluding 00:13:42 silence 209 de-silenced wpm
You were using the right filler. You just never mix the entire tube of hardener with the rest of the putty, because they always provide more hardener than is needed. Also use a smaller amount of the filler each time, just scoop it out of the can and use some thick cardboard to mix it on. Hope this helps you on a future project.
Very nice. If I ever finally manage to get my hands on one and it needs repair your videos are gonna be super useful. To repair the case maybe you could make negative molds (clay maybe?) from another one, then re-fill the broken one against the negative from behind. Just an idea. Some fine sanding after priming. Maybe a thin layer of clear lacquer sprayed over the paint job for added protection as well (heat resistant lacquer?). my2c. Cheers!
The moment you put the entire hardener tube directly into the filler I knew this was gonna turn out pretty bad 😂 It is what it is though. Better than it was.
Hi Jan. I had the same discoloration with my original 1983 Breadbin machine case when I cleaned it with soapy water. Nothing I tried would restore the original colour. In the end it was suggested I use a "Magic Eraser" sponge which did bring back the original plastic without the white discoloration. The front graphics on my keys are also very fragile.
I suggest looking up fret files, used for guitar maintenance. One of those would probably be the perfect size to clear out the filled-in slits at the upper right of the case. I got one from eBay that's cheap and nasty but actually good enough to crown frets, for $6. It has smooth sides too, so it won't scratch up other parts of your work. Only the outer edges have file patterns chiseled in -- one edge rounded like fret wire, the other flat for finishing ends. Also when patching holes that go all the way through, sometimes it's better to put the tape on the outside and fill from the back. You can leave it on the sloppy side for structural help, and then the thinnest coat of filler on the front will be needed after the tape comes off, for wherever you may have left an air void. But you won't have to sand off a bunch of spillover, because you let it spill over on the inside. This wouldn't have helped at all with the big hole in the corner, but it might have made your life easier on the six little button holes.
Great restoration of a terrible looking case. The epoxy job was not bad if you see what tools you had. Really a nice job for a first time. Don’t let the people tell you differently. Let them show their work first before criticising you. The C64 in black looked cool as hell. Commodore should have build them like that in my opinion. Take care and hope you are doing OK. Greetings from Belgium 🇧🇪, JL.
My respect, you are a pure professional, at least in electronics 😂. For the cover I would have simply used some camouflage like stickers or something, maybe LEDs into the round holes. Black, well ... okay. I would have preferred gold or red. But: Great job at all!
Und wieder ein C64 ins coole Rentnerleben gestartet! Ich bin mir sicher mit der Spachtelmasse gibts noch praktische Basteltricks, wahrscheinlich irgendwie unten abkleben und dann mit einem Spachtel oä. oben sauber abziehen.
Hi, Jan! Thanks for yet an another video. I just love to see you at work and listen to you. That's so relaxing :) And obviously it always makes my heart rejoice when I see a C64 coming back to life! So thanks for your videos and for your job!
Wish I had magic snapping fingers to complete electronics work! I really wonder what those holes were for in the top case? I've got nothing. Great refurb! Loved every second. I never seem to get tired watching C64's come back to life.
Always enjoy a commodore refurbishment thanks Jan 👍 The only suggestion I would make with the filler is maybe try the tape on the outside for the smaller holes - you can always leave the unwanted stuff inside the case. Though it may have still shrunk and has the same results 🤔
At first I thought this would be just another dead PLA job. Then things got interesting! Bonus points for new camera perspectivesy, too! Some thoughts: automotive putty tends to shrink a lot while hardening. That's why you always should consider another one or two layers. Also it is good to close the holes from the underside with some type or mesh.When spray painting there is a chance to get bigger splshes when pressing the button on the can, so I prefer to press it outside of the object and leave it pressed. For modelling the grooves I was thinking about using those 'Linolschnitt' tools from school. Don't know the english word, but I guess you know them. Your round wasn't the best choice for square grooves I think... Also could have been better to cut the edges of the grooves first with an exacto blade. But I really like those videos that require interdisciplinary skills. You can get better with practice! Like you did with the use of power tools... ;-)
For the gaping hole, I'd personally try to patch in a section from an even more messed up VIC or 64, or I would spray some release agent on the good section, then use that to mold a new section to patch into that hole (after cutting or filing the hole to be more 'square'.
When filling holes, you need the leave the filler a bit "proud" when it's wet. Other wise, when it dries and shrinks the holes will be visible. Also, a couple of thin coats is better than one thick blobbing when using bondo. I'd mention putting the entire tube of hardener into the can, but I see other folks have gotten there before me! :-) It's quite a serviceable repair.
Sorry for my ignorance (I'm not native English speaking) but what is the meaning of "proud" in this context? You mean to leave it some time and not apply it immediately?
@@rastislavzima In this context, "proud" means rising higher than the surface around it. Standing taller. Essentially creating a dome. That is, you have some material above the surface so that when the material shrinks, it's still above the surface and you can sand it flat. If you scrape the surface flat, the filler shrinks as the chemical reaction occurs, leaving a hollow dimple. this is a very common problem when filling holes in automobile bodies. I hope I answered your question adequately. English is a strange language, even for those of us who speak it natively.
There are some experiments that have replaced chips and processors using raspberry pico, those are micro controllers with the enough power to replace those chips if you program them correctly. The old chips are every time more scarce. So far it has been done on 8086 cpus
Nice work diagnosing the fault. Painting is something I've always wanted to do instead of retro-brightening, so I'll go with that instead. I would suggest for a finer finish microblasting the case first, if you have the means ;-). Once you get your materials and efforts refined with body work you'll have a case that looks like new! Keep this up, Jan! Gut gemacht ;-).
Hey, love your channel and so I'm a new subscriber. I appreciate you knowledge of Commodores, C64's and electronics and that painting a case IS new to you. If there is a next time and I suspect there will be, I'd like to share some tips that will help. You should have filled the smaller holes in the case from the back side. This would have cut down on the sanding, give the filler plugs more to hold on with and also given you a smoother finish in the front, even before sanding. Filling the larger hole from the front was prob necessary, so that you could match the grooves, but, you should not have waited for the filler to get completely hard before starting the sanding, especially when it came to cutting the grooves. Speaking of, if you'd have used less activator, the filler would have hardened slower, giving you more time to cut the grooves. You should have given the body a light sanding all over with a fine grit to give the primer something to stick to, so that the paint is harder to scratch off. Primer acts like a filler and fills fine scratches and nicks, if you sand down the first coat. Also, black may be a cool color but it shows every flaw underneath. I hope this was clear as I tried to keep it short and hope it helps.
you've probably discovered that already but be careful with spray paint. It will go EVERYWHERE! I was crying watching you spraying on that nice wooden floor! It's deifnitely a task for outdoor - but you'll find coloured patches on the floor anyways.
Funnily a socket on a Commodore board does not need to mean prior repair. Quite often the socket had been installed by Commodore themselves, when at the time of assembly not all chips had been available. This happened quite often. But at least the 40 pin socket looks "aftermarket".
Ein paar Anmerkungen und Tipps: Wie man Spachtelmasse richtig ansetzt und verarbeitet, haben ja schon einige geschrieben... 😉 - Eine FFP2 Maske schützt NICHT vor giftigen Dämpfen, insbesondere die der Spachtelmasse. (Styrol!) - Lackieren im Freien oder noch besser in einem passenden Raum, der Zimmerboden gehört bestimmt nicht dazu. - Teile die (noch) nicht lackiert werden, gehören nicht in den Arbeitsbereich. Der Sprühnebel setzt sich sonst auf diesen fest und macht sie rauh... Vorarbeit für die Katz! - Sprühen in konstantem Abstand zum Werkstück und in einem Zug die ganze Breite lackieren. So kurze Sprühstösse verbrauchen viel Material und ergeben unnötig viele Ansätze.
nice job jan! the black looks really nice! rule of thumb with bondo filler and drywall compound; put less on each time saves sanding time taking it off later. i wondered what those 6 holes were in the upper right hand side of the case used for? maybe led or momentary switches to dump carts memory to floppy disk ;-)
I was about 6 years old when my dad brought one of these home in 1988. I really want one, even if broken (I think I have enough skill and knowledge to repair one) I just have no room at the moment.
"Chuffed" - you obviously have some UK experience as not many English as a second language speakers say chuffed (although your English is impeccable!).
I would have used Milliput (epoxy putty) to fill the holes. There's a product called Blue Stuff, which is a reusable thermoplastic used for mould making. Using that, you can take an imprint of an undamaged part of the case (both the textured top and vents) which you could then lay over the holes on the top of the case and fill the holes from the underside.
I would have used a different method of case repair. I would have used some old ABS plastic. Dissolved it into a paste by mixing it with acetone. Masking off on the top side and filling up holes from the backside. The bigger hole, can be rebuild, by using PVC sticks and glue them together with super glue. Finally use some two component epoxy glue on the backside, to stabelise it as good as possible.
I would have filled the small holes with LEDs, then wired them to various points on the board as “diagnostic aids”. Because, who doesn’t love blinkenlichten! 😆As for the big hole, well, maybe a toggle switch so you can turn it on from the top, instead of reaching around the side. Or maybe a push button type switch as a reset. 🙂
Have you stopped replacing the voltage regulators with DCDC converters when future-proofing, even the 5V one? I replaced both the voltage regulators with the good Recom type you have used before and I am not sure if I got some additional video signal noise, so I wanted to check with you if you still think changing the voltage regulators is a good idea or not. The 12V regulator doesn't get so terribly hot, so I guess I mostly want to use the DCDC replacements on the 5V line, but not if it degrades the video or audio signal. Seeing the high input voltages that are supplied to these voltage regulators and the terribly inefficient and wasteful power/thermal issues, my mind really wants to go with good DCDC regulators, but I wanted to check with your experience. (edit: I am also aware of the "f.rt sound" issue, but I am always using ARMSIDs anyway so that's not a concern for me.)
Hello Great job, I always follow you, congratulations! Some time ago I also restored and painted a C64 gray because it has white keys, I called it C64 Silver. Excellent choice of black for your C64 since it has dark keys.
Perfektní práce - jako kluk jsem měl Commodore C64 s datasetem a později s floppy 1541-II - hned bych si zahrál Turrican, Exolon 87, Shadow of the Beast......Později jsem si zakoupil Commodore Amiga 1200
I have to say that I liked the grey color much more than the black second coating. It looks a bit like the newer Aldi cases. Regarding the big hole: You could have made a kind of mold from plastelin or something like that. Put some oil on it and put it over the hole. Then you can fill it from the back side. Or do not fill it at all and create a reset button in the shape of the commodore C= with a 3D printer. That of course would have been far too work intensive.
Has anyone commented on the filler yet, like, how to save the can when one only needs a bit? Yes? Already dozens of comments on the topic? Ok, ok, so I won't mention it again. 🤣
As I was watching you remold the broken area I kept wondering if perhaps you could have gotten it a bit better with a careful use of a dremel. Not sure if any of the grinding discs are thin enough to match the case's lines but it might be worth a shot if you ever need to do this again.
I'd have skipped the patching on the case and gone for a restoration that puts back whatever was in those holes originally. Buttons probably. Maybe install a ROM switcher, reset wire, etc.
Waschbenzin is much better than isopropanol to dissolve sticker residue and such. It is pure heptane and doesn't affect most plastics. One example is Klax Waschbenzin over at "dm"
To be completely fair, this case was a prime candidate for experimentation and if you don't practice or push yourself, you don't learn. You might take some ideas from plastic modellers, especially for how they use plastic card and modelling putty. For example, the gentleman at The Model Shed has been doing extensive modification to the hull of a Bismarck ship model th-cam.com/video/9j6Q9RtOxv4/w-d-xo.html If anything, look at the tools and supplies he uses; it's pretty amazing what you specialized gear you learn about that's common in other hobbies.
I follow all your videos with interest, especially those relating to Commodore machines. I see you are using an antistatic bracelet, can you explain to me, even with a photo if possible, where do you hook the crocodile? Thank you
Dear Mr Beta , how are you ? Thank you for your' entertaining videos on fixing the mighty C64 . Just a question on a problem I have with one of my fix-up jobs : Does changing the timing varistor next to the oscillator affect the turning on of the machine ? I ruined my varistor and changed it out for a brown one I bought online . The C64 has blank screen . Nothing appearring on the monitor .
It should not affect the general state of the machine, just the video output. Depending on what output you use (composite or luma/chroma), you may get a black screen with a misaligned timing if the signal is off by too much to be picked up by the monitor. Usually you get some kind of distorted or black and white output though.
Hi Jan, can you tell me how to buy sockets for putting the chips on the c64. I'm planning on restore my old c64 with the help of a technician, i am not. I didn't ask the last time. Where are you from? Thanks for sharing so much information to your audience. Thanks a lot Jan!
You can usually find the sockets in every electronics components (online) store. Just look for dual inline sockets (they come in two standard widths and different pin counts, should be relatively easy to pick the ones you need). Here in Germany, I usually order precision sockets from reichelt.de. If in doubt, you can always check out the Run/Stop Re-Store (online) that has all kinds of Commodore parts, shipped from the Netherlands.
Thanks! Trying to build new skills all the time. I think it turned out relatively well (lots of room for improvement on the plastic repair front though). 😅
The whole can of body filler at once... oh man... hehe.. But if you don't know, what can you do right? Sometimes we don't know what we don't know until we find out otherwise. Not picking on you or whatever, but small batches of body filler is all you needed. Mix this stuff like you would use epoxy, smaller batches are better. The hardener included is actually more than you need for the entire can. Smaller amounts of hardener give you more working time with the filler. Go watch some videos on how to mix body filler.
I would stick with washing liquid to clean the case and keys except for stubborn areas. Whatever you used was too aggressive for the plastic. The filler was ok but build it up in layers and use finer and finer grades of sandpaper.
... super wie du die "alten" Computer wieder aufpeppst. Aber schade, dass dein "altes" Auto darunter leiden muss - oder habe ich das falsch verstanden. 😉
the printed symbols on the side of the key caps look like someone tried cleaning them with alcohol - I made that mistake before, the isopropanol is too harsh for that ink apparently
body filler is perfectly adequate for the job of filling holes like that , few hints though:
1: put out the amount you figure you need on a small piece of scrap cardboard and add appropriate amount of hardener, that way you don't destroy the whole can of it
2: fill holes with a push coat, sand and repeat with smooth coats as fillers tend to shrink as they cure, you can get that area perfectly level but it takes some time , no matter the filler you use
3:sanding, do NOT use a nail board like that as initial sanding , use an emery cloth 400 grit and up to 1000 if needed, the flexibility can give you the leeway of shaping and contouring a lot better
4: use the edge of a flat file to profile the fins , the round file will concave the fins instead of profiling them to cut square edges , here you can use the nail board to level the tops
5: multiple coats and sand between coats of primer, this will show you low spots you can touch up with filler and smooth off , that way you do not get the divots like that
6: painting , do not use short burst like that , thats how you get thick , thin and bare spots , spray past the edges , even coats , light sand in between coats , don't sand the top coat unless you intend to polish
pretty good for a first attempt , but don't give up on this method , practice it on a few pieces of scrap that you can make mistakes on and tweak the method to your liking
Word.
excellent...
I recently repaired the case of an Atari STE with a filler for metals!( with fibers)
I applied it from the inner side of the case and instead of tape I placed pieces of plastic with a natural surface grain(lightly oiled to avoid bidding with the filler) on the outer side of the case.
The result was amazing, no sanding was necessary of course....only the color is off and if I decide to paint the whole case no one will be able to spot the body work (until they look inside of course).
Now the metal filler gets really hot when mixed with the hardener and I got really worried that it would deform the plastic case. It turns out that that heat did help the filler and the plastic to bind really well!
Great work over all!
Yeah applying from inner side is a way to go and as you have used plastic on outer side Jan could use some mould material to copy the grill part to avoid much sanding. Also he could use maybe some small dremmel to send out grill part instead laborious hand sanding.
Pro tip: Scoop out a small amount of filler out of the tin, put it onto a disposable plate and mix that with a little bit of the hardener instead of putting the hardener straight into the tin of filler (note the ratio of filler:hardener mentioned on the side of tin). That way you'll still have plenty of filler and hardener left to repair future cases/dings in your car. :)
Was just thinking the same, seeing Jan waste a whole tin of poly-fill just to fill a few tiny holes hurt me inside so much... And I agree, a piece of cardboard, disposable plate or anything like that is the way to go with it.
Agreed. I thought whoa man that's a whole tin gone. I might have just over filled the holes a little proud and spread it underneath a bit to stop it falling out later. But yeah, a little more time and it would have been an invisible repair. Spray from side to side in one go to get an even thin coat and build up the layers. Thanks for sharing Jan.
@@grotekleum Or filled it for a rough first one, let that cure, then go over it with another round of filler till it's level with the surrounding. Didn't cringe so much but winced a bit and then thought "have done that myself once too".
Well done! Black looks sharp. Longer sweeping motion sprays not starting or stopping over the thing you’re painting will prevent blotchy parts and drips.
Sunday and Jan is there, how wonderful is that - nice :)
Sorry but I laughed hard when you emptied the hardener into the can, you absolute mad man :D But very solid video, immer wieder schön deine videos Jan!
Me too! Jan - best to use a little material and hardener on a piece of cardboard or similar. that way you can use the filler again another day. The sanding can be done wet as well which might gain a smother finish. (Not being a dick - just a few tips for next time)
Try to use something with a square edge like a popsicle stick and wrap it in some sandpaper to help you sand those fins back into shape. Also a second pass with a fine filler would help you to get those divots flush and manage to build some of the details back in more easily.
Usually with those type of fillers you mix a golf ball of filler with a pea of hardener. A second application of the filler and those holes would be gone
Lol I missed that part and wondered later why he didn't fill the holes better after I saw the paint job.
Aloha !
For those of you having a damaged case but want the original look; You can use RAL 1019 Grey beige.
I find it to be a very close match to the original color from the factory... (Unless you have an Aldi C64 hahaha)
As for the motive, a breadbin isn't smooth, first use some modelling clay on a clean undamaged part of the case,
then after you have painted it, ever so gently press the clay on the wet paint. The little pattern will then be transferred so to speak.
Cheeeeeeeeeers
Jecepede
A good filler for plastics is super glue and bicarbonate of soda. Tape up the holes as you did and then fill with bicarb. Clean away any excess. Add a drop of super glue. Repeat until the hole is filled. The model maker glue applicators with the thin metal pipette style nozzle are great for adding the glue without mess. I might have tried making a silicon mold of the fin area with silicon caulk on a stiff backing and then back filled with two part epoxy, but that was pretty damaged! Great job and a nice choice of colour. Thanks JB!
Es ist immer wieder schön, Dir bei Arbeiten am C64 zuzuschauen. Danke für Deine Videos. 😊
I took computer science in college before Apple, PC and certainly this fine computer. We had one mainframe at the university and used keypunch cards for our student programs. This was such an exciting time when these came out: the Apple 2, the Osborne, the TRS-80, this computer, the Sinclair. I still love DOS...it just seems so much personal than our anonymous computers now that like to act like they're personal when we know they're not. Thanks for saving this one, and best wishes from the Houston area.
The secret was to make a negative impression of the grooves on the left side, mount it over the hole on the right side, then fill it in from the back side. But for someone who isn't an expert at restoration, and who wasn't in the mood to do 1 different steps of filling, sanding, priming, wet sanding, re filled, filing, sand again, priming again, base coat, and top coat and seal coat, you did a great job. :)
Fresh epoxy putty does a pretty good job on case repairs. It is also suitable to be „wrapped around“ broken screw posts after glueing the bits together to enforce them. Nowadays, I do it with 3D-printed tubes, but well… epoxy putty is as good. In my experience, groves, dents and craters are very visible after spray painting, so filling the holes well and sanding it plain with a block that supports the sandpaper to get it more even. For spray painting, a big cardboard box can be helpful to keep the dust away.
yeap......I managed to replace broken screw posts that were missing with epoxy putty for metals. They are 100% functional!
Thank you very much for mentioning and using PLAnkton, my creation. I just noticed this video which you posted a year ago.
Generally for filler like that you mix it in small amounts on a piece of cardboard, let it cure, do some rough sanding, and then re-apply another small amount.
It takes some work, but you can get everything very smooth.
Also, you need to make sure the filler is properly mixed with the hardener. The hardeners I've seen are colored, so when you mix it it with the filler you just have to get even color.
A trick to use if someone else want to repair a "complex" hole like that grille on the case is to make a silicone mold of the pattern and then attach the mold to the hole, and add the filler from the underside. It's also possible to make a mold of the general texture and use for the holes. The trick is to add the filler from the inside and avoid sanding on the upper side.
It’s better not to tell them about it, otherwise there won’t be such funny videos. :-D
Hey Jan, perhaps on the grid lines you could have place wooden toothpick and as you place the epoxy, try to shape it as much as you can with the tootpicks before it dries. Also you could have scoop out and mixed a little bit of the epoxy in a seperate container. So that way after sanding, you could have mixed more again later when you still see defects. Otherwise, it turn out very well with the paint job you did! 😁👍
Sockets are not necessarily an indication that chips have been replaced previously. Apparently, back in the day, if CBM didn't have some chips when they were doing a production run they'd fit a socket and come back to the board when they had the chips back in stock and install them.
True, but there was lots of flux residue on the back for those sockets, but not anywhere else. AFAIK when CBM did that the sockets were wave soldered together with everything else except the RF modulator so if it was "factory socket" they ought to have been like all the other, not different. Hand-soldering the sockets when they didn't need to do it by hand would have cost money/time (pretty sure the RF modulator is hand soldered because it couldn't be wave soldered).
Now, it could have been a CBM repair before it left the factory (I assume they did SOME testing to detect failures), after all CBM didn't clean up the flux after they hand soldered the RF modulator either so it's consistent with their practice. But the evidence suggests it was likely not just CMB leaving those sockets open.
tidy job fella. Worked out in the end.
Well done sir
The spoken duration of the video is: 2465 seconds - 822.87of silence
5722 total words spoken in HMS: 00:27:22 of total time: 00:41:05 excluding 00:13:42 silence
209 de-silenced wpm
You were using the right filler. You just never mix the entire tube of hardener with the rest of the putty, because they always provide more hardener than is needed. Also use a smaller amount of the filler each time, just scoop it out of the can and use some thick cardboard to mix it on. Hope this helps you on a future project.
Basically, wait until you need it to mix it rather than making big batches and racing the clock.
Very nice. If I ever finally manage to get my hands on one and it needs repair your videos are gonna be super useful.
To repair the case maybe you could make negative molds (clay maybe?) from another one, then re-fill the broken one against the negative from behind. Just an idea. Some fine sanding after priming.
Maybe a thin layer of clear lacquer sprayed over the paint job for added protection as well (heat resistant lacquer?). my2c. Cheers!
It's almost like you know what you are doing Jan! Love the look on your face when you realised you fixed and diagnosed the problem so quickly.
The moment you put the entire hardener tube directly into the filler I knew this was gonna turn out pretty bad 😂 It is what it is though. Better than it was.
Hi Jan. I had the same discoloration with my original 1983 Breadbin machine case when I cleaned it with soapy water. Nothing I tried would restore the original colour. In the end it was suggested I use a "Magic Eraser" sponge which did bring back the original plastic without the white discoloration. The front graphics on my keys are also very fragile.
I suggest looking up fret files, used for guitar maintenance. One of those would probably be the perfect size to clear out the filled-in slits at the upper right of the case. I got one from eBay that's cheap and nasty but actually good enough to crown frets, for $6. It has smooth sides too, so it won't scratch up other parts of your work. Only the outer edges have file patterns chiseled in -- one edge rounded like fret wire, the other flat for finishing ends.
Also when patching holes that go all the way through, sometimes it's better to put the tape on the outside and fill from the back. You can leave it on the sloppy side for structural help, and then the thinnest coat of filler on the front will be needed after the tape comes off, for wherever you may have left an air void. But you won't have to sand off a bunch of spillover, because you let it spill over on the inside. This wouldn't have helped at all with the big hole in the corner, but it might have made your life easier on the six little button holes.
Great restoration of a terrible looking case. The epoxy job was not bad if you see what tools you had. Really a nice job for a first time. Don’t let the people tell you differently. Let them show their work first before criticising you.
The C64 in black looked cool as hell. Commodore should have build them like that in my opinion.
Take care and hope you are doing OK. Greetings from Belgium 🇧🇪, JL.
Good job! It turned out looking not too bad being your first time using these techniques!
My respect, you are a pure professional, at least in electronics 😂. For the cover I would have simply used some camouflage like stickers or something, maybe LEDs into the round holes. Black, well ... okay. I would have preferred gold or red. But: Great job at all!
Und wieder ein C64 ins coole Rentnerleben gestartet! Ich bin mir sicher mit der Spachtelmasse gibts noch praktische Basteltricks, wahrscheinlich irgendwie unten abkleben und dann mit einem Spachtel oä. oben sauber abziehen.
So happy to see you back with another C64! Your videos have been crucial in my repair work journey! Thank you for all you do!
Hi, Jan! Thanks for yet an another video. I just love to see you at work and listen to you. That's so relaxing :) And obviously it always makes my heart rejoice when I see a C64 coming back to life! So thanks for your videos and for your job!
Wish I had magic snapping fingers to complete electronics work! I really wonder what those holes were for in the top case? I've got nothing.
Great refurb! Loved every second. I never seem to get tired watching C64's come back to life.
Excellent work! That's some very nice looking results in the end.
Always enjoy a commodore refurbishment thanks Jan 👍 The only suggestion I would make with the filler is maybe try the tape on the outside for the smaller holes - you can always leave the unwanted stuff inside the case. Though it may have still shrunk and has the same results 🤔
Got the best cleaning results in the dishwasher.
At first I thought this would be just another dead PLA job. Then things got interesting! Bonus points for new camera perspectivesy, too! Some thoughts: automotive putty tends to shrink a lot while hardening. That's why you always should consider another one or two layers. Also it is good to close the holes from the underside with some type or mesh.When spray painting there is a chance to get bigger splshes when pressing the button on the can, so I prefer to press it outside of the object and leave it pressed. For modelling the grooves I was thinking about using those 'Linolschnitt' tools from school. Don't know the english word, but I guess you know them. Your round wasn't the best choice for square grooves I think... Also could have been better to cut the edges of the grooves first with an exacto blade. But I really like those videos that require interdisciplinary skills. You can get better with practice! Like you did with the use of power tools... ;-)
For the gaping hole, I'd personally try to patch in a section from an even more messed up VIC or 64, or I would spray some release agent on the good section, then use that to mold a new section to patch into that hole (after cutting or filing the hole to be more 'square'.
When filling holes, you need the leave the filler a bit "proud" when it's wet. Other wise, when it dries and shrinks the holes will be visible. Also, a couple of thin coats is better than one thick blobbing when using bondo. I'd mention putting the entire tube of hardener into the can, but I see other folks have gotten there before me! :-) It's quite a serviceable repair.
Sorry for my ignorance (I'm not native English speaking) but what is the meaning of "proud" in this context? You mean to leave it some time and not apply it immediately?
@@rastislavzima In this context, "proud" means rising higher than the surface around it. Standing taller. Essentially creating a dome. That is, you have some material above the surface so that when the material shrinks, it's still above the surface and you can sand it flat.
If you scrape the surface flat, the filler shrinks as the chemical reaction occurs, leaving a hollow dimple. this is a very common problem when filling holes in automobile bodies.
I hope I answered your question adequately. English is a strange language, even for those of us who speak it natively.
@@dennisp.2147 ah yes, that makes sense, "proud" - stands tall above others. 👍
Darth Vader's C64.
Great stuff Jan!
There are some experiments that have replaced chips and processors using raspberry pico, those are micro controllers with the enough power to replace those chips if you program them correctly. The old chips are every time more scarce.
So far it has been done on 8086 cpus
A few layers of matte clear coat will make it look better, makes it even, less shiny and protects the paint.
Nice work diagnosing the fault. Painting is something I've always wanted to do instead of retro-brightening, so I'll go with that instead. I would suggest for a finer finish microblasting the case first, if you have the means ;-). Once you get your materials and efforts refined with body work you'll have a case that looks like new! Keep this up, Jan! Gut gemacht ;-).
Hey, love your channel and so I'm a new subscriber. I appreciate you knowledge of Commodores, C64's and electronics and that painting a case IS new to you. If there is a next time and I suspect there will be, I'd like to share some tips that will help. You should have filled the smaller holes in the case from the back side. This would have cut down on the sanding, give the filler plugs more to hold on with and also given you a smoother finish in the front, even before sanding. Filling the larger hole from the front was prob necessary, so that you could match the grooves, but, you should not have waited for the filler to get completely hard before starting the sanding, especially when it came to cutting the grooves. Speaking of, if you'd have used less activator, the filler would have hardened slower, giving you more time to cut the grooves. You should have given the body a light sanding all over with a fine grit to give the primer something to stick to, so that the paint is harder to scratch off. Primer acts like a filler and fills fine scratches and nicks, if you sand down the first coat. Also, black may be a cool color but it shows every flaw underneath. I hope this was clear as I tried to keep it short and hope it helps.
you've probably discovered that already but be careful with spray paint. It will go EVERYWHERE! I was crying watching you spraying on that nice wooden floor! It's deifnitely a task for outdoor - but you'll find coloured patches on the floor anyways.
What the hell was going on in that guys attic that melted the disks??? And a hole in the 64???? Anyone else thinking 'canabis farm'??
Another very interesting video with a lot of action! Thanks Jan.
Funnily a socket on a Commodore board does not need to mean prior repair. Quite often the socket had been installed by Commodore themselves, when at the time of assembly not all chips had been available. This happened quite often. But at least the 40 pin socket looks "aftermarket".
Challenging C-64 case restoration :) Interesting to think of ways how to repair that case, if I had to do it, while watching you do the fixing :)
You may want to try plastic putty from a company called Vallejo - pretty cheap and is specifically meant for plastic. Nice job 👍
Ein paar Anmerkungen und Tipps:
Wie man Spachtelmasse richtig ansetzt und verarbeitet, haben ja schon einige geschrieben... 😉
- Eine FFP2 Maske schützt NICHT vor giftigen Dämpfen, insbesondere die der Spachtelmasse. (Styrol!)
- Lackieren im Freien oder noch besser in einem passenden Raum, der Zimmerboden gehört bestimmt nicht dazu.
- Teile die (noch) nicht lackiert werden, gehören nicht in den Arbeitsbereich. Der Sprühnebel setzt sich sonst auf diesen fest und macht sie rauh... Vorarbeit für die Katz!
- Sprühen in konstantem Abstand zum Werkstück und in einem Zug die ganze Breite lackieren. So kurze Sprühstösse verbrauchen viel Material und ergeben unnötig viele Ansätze.
nice job jan! the black looks really nice! rule of thumb with bondo filler and drywall compound; put less on each time saves sanding time taking it off later. i wondered what those 6 holes were in the upper right hand side of the case used for? maybe led or momentary switches to dump carts memory to floppy disk ;-)
I was about 6 years old when my dad brought one of these home in 1988. I really want one, even if broken (I think I have enough skill and knowledge to repair one) I just have no room at the moment.
"Chuffed" - you obviously have some UK experience as not many English as a second language speakers say chuffed (although your English is impeccable!).
I would have used Milliput (epoxy putty) to fill the holes. There's a product called Blue Stuff, which is a reusable thermoplastic used for mould making. Using that, you can take an imprint of an undamaged part of the case (both the textured top and vents) which you could then lay over the holes on the top of the case and fill the holes from the underside.
Good feedback, something tells me Jan also has another perfect C64 that he could create a mold from for next time 😉
Even with cars, the filler can continue shrinking for 6 months after it appears dry. Basically painting a moving target.
Perfect in every way! I love your channel @Jan Beta
The replacement feet looked very nice. Do you have the 3M part number for these?
I would have used a different method of case repair. I would have used some old ABS plastic. Dissolved it into a paste by mixing it with acetone. Masking off on the top side and filling up holes from the backside. The bigger hole, can be rebuild, by using PVC sticks and glue them together with super glue. Finally use some two component epoxy glue on the backside, to stabelise it as good as possible.
I would have filled the small holes with LEDs, then wired them to various points on the board as “diagnostic aids”. Because, who doesn’t love blinkenlichten! 😆As for the big hole, well, maybe a toggle switch so you can turn it on from the top, instead of reaching around the side. Or maybe a push button type switch as a reset. 🙂
Definitely a success. Great video, as always.
Have you stopped replacing the voltage regulators with DCDC converters when future-proofing, even the 5V one? I replaced both the voltage regulators with the good Recom type you have used before and I am not sure if I got some additional video signal noise, so I wanted to check with you if you still think changing the voltage regulators is a good idea or not. The 12V regulator doesn't get so terribly hot, so I guess I mostly want to use the DCDC replacements on the 5V line, but not if it degrades the video or audio signal. Seeing the high input voltages that are supplied to these voltage regulators and the terribly inefficient and wasteful power/thermal issues, my mind really wants to go with good DCDC regulators, but I wanted to check with your experience. (edit: I am also aware of the "f.rt sound" issue, but I am always using ARMSIDs anyway so that's not a concern for me.)
Wow, really nice restoration of the case there! Great video as always :)
Hello Great job, I always follow you, congratulations! Some time ago I also restored and painted a C64 gray because it has white keys, I called it C64 Silver. Excellent choice of black for your C64 since it has dark keys.
Perfektní práce - jako kluk jsem měl Commodore C64 s datasetem a později s floppy 1541-II - hned bych si zahrál Turrican, Exolon 87, Shadow of the Beast......Později jsem si zakoupil Commodore Amiga 1200
Jan! Where was the Focus 10 putting the key caps on? Awesome video.
Very good with the fault finding and the cleaning. The case restoration... : O
Nice black case! Love it 😍
I have to say that I liked the grey color much more than the black second coating. It looks a bit like the newer Aldi cases.
Regarding the big hole:
You could have made a kind of mold from plastelin or something like that. Put some oil on it and put it over the hole. Then you can fill it from the back side.
Or do not fill it at all and create a reset button in the shape of the commodore C= with a 3D printer. That of course would have been far too work intensive.
The grey was a primer coat. It would have to be sprayed over anyway, even with a matching grey colour.
Nice work old bean! (I would've been _so tempted_ to paint the ZX Spectrum colour bars on there, just to irritate any Americans watching! ;) lol)
Has anyone commented on the filler yet, like, how to save the can when one only needs a bit? Yes? Already dozens of comments on the topic? Ok, ok, so I won't mention it again. 🤣
Very nice restore. Hunky dory!
As I was watching you remold the broken area I kept wondering if perhaps you could have gotten it a bit better with a careful use of a dremel. Not sure if any of the grinding discs are thin enough to match the case's lines but it might be worth a shot if you ever need to do this again.
take out 48K of memory, then it can be a C16 LOL
Not really, as each of the 8 RAM chips contributes one bit to each byte, so taking out any RAM chip makes it a dead C00 machine.
I'd have skipped the patching on the case and gone for a restoration that puts back whatever was in those holes originally. Buttons probably. Maybe install a ROM switcher, reset wire, etc.
Jan,il lavoro al case superiore va abbastanza bene,magari quando avrai tempo lo perfezionerai,tutto il resto,perfetto!
Waschbenzin is much better than isopropanol to dissolve sticker residue and such. It is pure heptane and doesn't affect most plastics. One example is Klax Waschbenzin over at "dm"
To be completely fair, this case was a prime candidate for experimentation and if you don't practice or push yourself, you don't learn. You might take some ideas from plastic modellers, especially for how they use plastic card and modelling putty. For example, the gentleman at The Model Shed has been doing extensive modification to the hull of a Bismarck ship model th-cam.com/video/9j6Q9RtOxv4/w-d-xo.html If anything, look at the tools and supplies he uses; it's pretty amazing what you specialized gear you learn about that's common in other hobbies.
I follow all your videos with interest, especially those relating to Commodore machines. I see you are using an antistatic bracelet, can you explain to me, even with a photo if possible, where do you hook the crocodile? Thank you
Dear Mr Beta , how are you ? Thank you for your' entertaining videos on fixing the mighty C64 .
Just a question on a problem I have with one of my fix-up jobs : Does changing the timing varistor next to the oscillator affect the turning on of the machine ? I ruined my varistor and changed it out for a brown one I bought online . The C64 has blank screen . Nothing appearring on the monitor .
It should not affect the general state of the machine, just the video output. Depending on what output you use (composite or luma/chroma), you may get a black screen with a misaligned timing if the signal is off by too much to be picked up by the monitor. Usually you get some kind of distorted or black and white output though.
Restauration au top! ✌️🕹
PCBway is the way!
I would have put some switches and leds in those holes. Clearly this C64 was modded up during it's life, so might as well re-mod it!
You did a nice repair again :D
Hi Jan, can you tell me how to buy sockets for putting the chips on the c64. I'm planning on restore my old c64 with the help of a technician, i am not. I didn't ask the last time. Where are you from? Thanks for sharing so much information to your audience. Thanks a lot Jan!
You can usually find the sockets in every electronics components (online) store. Just look for dual inline sockets (they come in two standard widths and different pin counts, should be relatively easy to pick the ones you need). Here in Germany, I usually order precision sockets from reichelt.de. If in doubt, you can always check out the Run/Stop Re-Store (online) that has all kinds of Commodore parts, shipped from the Netherlands.
@@JanBeta thank you a lot! Really!
Hi, What is the usual cause of fuzzy static video from composite and RF and no colour but the odd flicker of colour in games. ? thanks
Well it's not perfect but it is a lot better than before. The black case might look very good with a white "Aldi" keyboard. What do you think?
Good job. It looks nice in black. BASIC BAD?
Uh-oh, a 1983 machine, the year of MOS Technology's IC chip processing error leading to cancer deaths appearing decades later.
Nice restoration. :-)
Thanks! Trying to build new skills all the time. I think it turned out relatively well (lots of room for improvement on the plastic repair front though). 😅
Who remembers the smell of their unused brand new Commodore 64?
Nice 🤩👍🏼
The whole can of body filler at once... oh man... hehe.. But if you don't know, what can you do right? Sometimes we don't know what we don't know until we find out otherwise.
Not picking on you or whatever, but small batches of body filler is all you needed. Mix this stuff like you would use epoxy, smaller batches are better. The hardener included is actually more than you need for the entire can. Smaller amounts of hardener give you more working time with the filler. Go watch some videos on how to mix body filler.
Great job Jan!
Like it alot 👍 good work
19:30 - look at the amount of filth coming off that case o.0
There might be someone who does transfers that could replace the bits worn from the key caps. It'd be fiddly to apply though!
I would stick with washing liquid to clean the case and keys except for stubborn areas. Whatever you used was too aggressive for the plastic. The filler was ok but build it up in layers and use finer and finer grades of sandpaper.
... super wie du die "alten" Computer wieder aufpeppst. Aber schade, dass dein "altes" Auto darunter leiden muss - oder habe ich das falsch verstanden. 😉
next time you could try to put masking tape on the top of the case and fill the holes from the bottom side..
the printed symbols on the side of the key caps look like someone tried cleaning them with alcohol - I made that mistake before, the isopropanol is too harsh for that ink apparently
Can you provide a link to the heatsinks you use? I don't see it in the video information.