Atheist Debates - Skeptical of Catholicism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- I received a nice card and Catholic propaganda from someone who watched my debate with Trent Horn. I also had a caller who claimed peer-reviewed scientific confirmation of eucharist miracles.
Both are addressed here.
These Atheist Debate videos are very much appreciated and have taken the place of Sunday sermons. Thank you!
And you don't have to dress up and go anywhere. The truth comes to you. The only things missing are the use of fear and threats of eternal damnation!
@@mrcurly1147 And no shit songs.
@@ohdehhan
Which "belief" is more rational and logical???
Two people (one Christian the other Atheist) are walking through an apple orchard coming upon 377 apples "perfectly" in a row and "evenly" spaced apart on the ground.
The atheist, given their belief in spontaneous "accidents", concludes "nice accident" and continues walking. Obviously, not thinking anything more about it - as that is how he/she is brainwashed by their "secular" public education to believe.
On the other hand, the Christian sees the exact same 377 apples "perfectly" in a row and "evenly" spaced apart, and concludes "WHO IN THE WORLD DID THAT?"
Which has a more rational and logical conclusion???
Basic logic dictates behind "order" there has to be an "orderer". Behind every "building" you see is a "builder" you cannot see.
Behind something that is "moving" there is a "mover" - that "caused it" to move.
Behind an intelligent "design" is a intelligent "designer".
Now, let’s raise the spontaneous "accident" odds to absolute absurdity. For me to write this post I have 3 Billion DNA "perfectly" in a row and "evenly" spaced apart and for you to read this post right now you have 3 Billion DNA "perfectly" in a row and "evenly" spaced apart, so over 6 Billion DNA "ordered" and working !!!
Now, is that just a random "chance" and spontaneous "accident" to have 6 Billion DNA in a "row" to carry on this conversation???
www.genome.gov/25520880/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/
evolutionnews.org/2018/04/yes-intelligent-design-is-detectable-by-science/
Even famous atheist Richard Dawkins has admitted DNA can "prove" intelligent design
th-cam.com/video/prFZTMIKOi4/w-d-xo.html
www.allaboutscience.org/intelligent-design.htm
Sorry, Evolution is a lie. The false theory should be DEAD/EXTINCT by "real" scientists:
th-cam.com/video/4wCxkBnm3ow/w-d-xo.html
Evolution is spread from a Masonic lie:
th-cam.com/video/66c03O4APJ4/w-d-xo.html
What are the "odds" of even one protein forming "accidentally" completely forgetting about even more complex "LIFE"???
th-cam.com/video/W1_KEVaCyaA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/yBEwgdCHUWo/w-d-xo.html
Now is athiestic evolution or spontaneous "accidents" really a logical and rational conclusion???
Please get to KNOW the supreme "orderer" of this universe, and what He expects out of your life to find "TRUE LIFE".
Now, I recommend you watch former atheist Lee Strobel's "Case for the Creator".
th-cam.com/video/ajqH4y8G0MI/w-d-xo.html
Then listen or read Josh McDowell's "Evidence Demands a Verdict".
th-cam.com/video/HRemWMIy2IY/w-d-xo.html
Please follow the "evidence", facts, real science and "TRUTH" right into the ONE and ONLY established Church of Jesus Christ being the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.
May GOD open your eyes and heart guiding you to TRUTH HIMSELF Jesus Christ (John 14:6).
www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
www.magiscenter.com,
@@onetruefaith2091 oh noes. someone doesn't understand evolution.
Now I am no expert in any scientific field but even a high school understanding is sufficient.
Clearly you've been miss informed on what the theory of evolution actually is.
"Accident" suggests there was a purpose. Evolution isn't an "accident" It's the result of changes in the genetic information of a population over time. When DNA duplicates itself there are copying errors (it tries to create an exact replica of itself but this doesn't always turn out to be exactly identical). These extremely small and subtle changes compound together, resulting in a change in an organism. Some of these changes are purely cosmetic and others can give a distinct advantage or dis-advantage.
If there are EXTERNAL pressures influencing which traits are "beneficial" than those traits are allowed to be passed on to the next generation.
Now an example of a beneficial mutation would be a population of colourful birds. Bright vibrant colours are desired by the females resulting in brightly coloured males having the opportunity to pass on their mutation (in this case brighter more vibrant feathers). Where-as the female of this species gains no benefit to colour changes therefore they are not selected and you end up with a population of birds where the males are bright and vibrant and the females are dull. (this is why peacocks are the way they are.)
Sexual selection can be seen in humans as well. Women with large breasts, buttocks, and wide hips were seen in the past as able to support children better, and so women who had these traits were more likely candidates for men, who would have their own "attractive" traits sought by the women.
An example that is directly advantageous can be seen in populations of fish that is living in low oxygenated water. A mutation that allows them to gulp air from the surface would be a benefit to their survival meaning those fish are able to survive long enough to mature and pass on their genes.
Keep in mind that natural selection has no "goal" it's a mechanism we use to describe how a mutation that is beneficial to an organism allows it to out compete others and survive. It's not "perfection" its "good enough" to allow the organism to reproduce.
Looking at the human eye we can clearly see they were not designed. They're terrible, built backwards (and differently to other animals) but they work good enough for humans to survive and reproduce and that's all the selective pressure that can be applied by natural selection.
I went to a private Anglican school and as such was mandatory for me to study religion under the subject of "Christian Studies" and in Senior years was "Studies of Religion". The latter have 2 elective religions. We obviously chose Christianity and Islam since they're the most similar and well duh we're Christian so the first one was obvious.
I bring this up because it was from these mandatory lessons that I actually read the Bible for myself. Quickly coming to the realisation of why there are so many denominations within Christianity. All of them claim that the others are miss interpreting the scriptures. This lead me to question why the Bible is so unclear. If it's Gods word and true why can't anyone agree on what it says? I later realised that no denominations believes everything in the Bible. They all remove/ignore parts that don't sit well or flat out contradict their belief. This is why I am no longer a Christian. There's no reason, that I can see, to believe in a book (or collection of books) written in a time before we had any understanding of our reality.
Back on topic of your example "Two people (one Christian the other Atheist) are walking through an apple orchard coming upon 377 apples "perfectly" in a row and "evenly" spaced apart on the ground."
I know for certain that I'd never think this was a natural occurrence. It would be pretty safe to assume that someone had come through before us and placed the apples this way. But assuming that "someone" is a omnipresent all powerful god? Nah that's unreasonable. Since there's no reason to think that. Unless you believe that 1 already exists. Simply saying "God must've done it" is what disrupts progress. If we all just thought that then there would be no more research into the unknown. Things like medicine wouldn't exist because we would still think demons are real. We cannot rely on a God to save us. God has never helped any of us. We have to look out for ourselves. The survival of the human species is in our hands.
From all North Afrikan Atheists- thank you Matt for these great tools you give us that help us set ourselves free
Good on you Mustafa.
Are you really free?
My new favorite polite insult: "You have extraordinarily low standards of evidence"
😂😜
I've used something similar for a while now - generally along the lines of, "What you're calling 'evidence' doesn't pass muster." Or, alternatively, "Your evidence requires too much faith that it *IS* evidence."
I think yours is better worded, though.
0:31 "and i didn't know that much about catholicism and i wasn't taught very much"
sounds like you're a catholic! :P ;)
EXACTLY LMAOOO
Thank you for seeing us
12 years of catholic schooling taught me a lot about catholicism. Ultimately it taught me it was senseless.
OMG same. I grew up Catholic and knew nothing about it until I became an anti-theist and I don’t know any more about Catholicism than any other denomination.
I have always found that Catholics know very little about their religion. Which is probably how the Patriarchy/Hierarchy
like it. I have had to explain to practicing
Catholics what Lent is about and why they " fast". So they give up drink but are
"allowed " to briefly relapse for St Patrick's day . So l then tell them ,
Jesus struggling with Satan in the desert
for 40 days and nights goes " Oi... Satan
giz a break .... it's St Paddies day "
Matt, I love these videos where you just get to speak about these issues without your callers trying to wait for their turn to speak. Thanks
*peer-reviewed scientific confirmation of eucharist miracles*
This is the funniest joke of the year.
A Sacrament that has salvation written all over it.
Much more than a "personal relationship" it is a marriage covenant between GOD and His chosen people - "Marriage Supper of the Lamb". ***You need an altar and Catholic priest to enter that covenant relationship.***
How do all Catholics become His ONE BODY, ONE "VISIBLE" CHURCH, ONE TEMPLE OR ONE BRIDE???
"Real Presence" or Holy Eucharist Defense
1. "Pascal lamb"
In Exodus 12:3-14 GOD "forever" liturgically commands the PASSOVER as a means of proper worship. In the Passover, GOD REQUIRED the "lamb" to be consumed for "Death to Passover" (Exodus 12:3-8). Then Jesus, the "Lamb of GOD" (John 1:29, 1 Corinthians 5:7, 1 Peter 1:19), transforms this "forever" GOD commanded PASSOVER Feast during the "Last Supper" (in every synoptic Gospel account) into the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER (Luke 22:19). Further, in context of the PASSOVER (John 6:4) Jesus Christ's "Bread of LIFE" discourse He REQUIRES us to "abide" in His BODY and BLOOD for "Death to Passover" (John 6:54-58). ***Protestants, Jesus Christ states the consequences of not partaking of Him in John 6:53.***
Additional John Chapter 6 Proof??? In John 6:60, everyone was disbelieving Jesus's "hard" teaching (John 6:54-58) about the Holy Eucharist. So, put yourself in Jesus's shoes how would you respond to people disbelieving you??? Wouldn't you want to provide some sort of "proof" or "evidence" you mean what you say??? How does Jesus Christ respond to His disbelievers in John 6:60 and what "proof" will He provide to them and you per John 6:62???
2. "Heavenly Manna"
GOD provided "Spiritual Food and Drink" (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) to His old covenant people, so wouldn't Jesus Christ provide something for His NEW COVENANT chosen people???
Jesus Christ compares Himself to the old covenant "Heavenly Manna" in John 6:31-35. Jesus teaches how the "Heavenly Manna" that came down "daily" will now actually be Him (John 6:51-58).
In the "Our Father" prayer Jesus Christ states "give us THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD" that actually refers to the NEW COVENANT MANNA or Jesus Christ Himself as the "BREAD OF LIFE" (John 6:35, 48, 51).
Acts 2:46. The Catholic Church has been "breaking bread (of LIFE) daily" of the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER (Luke 22:19) before the Book of Acts was even written in the mid 60's AD, all along since Jesus Christ's death in 33AD, and to this very day fulfilling Malachi 1:11 prophecy all across the world "daily"!!!
3. "HOW HE WAS MADE KNOWN TO THEM in the Breaking Bread" (Luke 24:35)
In the Luke 24:13-35 "Road to Emmaus" scriptures, there is a clear "structure" of worship being referrenced - being the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER or better known as the Catholic Mass.
In Luke 24:27, there is an opening up of the old testament Sacred Scriptures (Readings). Then, a clear explanation of how Jesus Christ fulfilled all the old covenant prophecies and covenant promises (Homily). Then, we have a "participation in" (1 Corinthians 10:16-17) the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER "breaking of bread" where the "Lamb of GOD" Jesus Christ ultimately becomes "KNOWN" to us.
Protestants, what does Jesus Christ say to you refusing to "break bread" and "become KNOWN" to Him in His ONE and ONLY "Kingdom of GOD" here on earth - being the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH - per Luke 7:21-23??? Still saved???
4. "Bread of the PRESENCE"
Along with the Passover, GOD "forever" liturgically commands the "Bread of the PRESENCE" to be part of proper worship of Him in Leviticus 24:5-9.
In the old Jewish Temple, the old "Heaven and Earth" of worship, a veil seperated two main worship rooms.
In the outer room was the "Bread of the PRESENCE". A veil separated it from the inner room that was called the HOLY of HOLIES, where no one could enter but the High Priest once a year. This inner room the HOLY of HOLIES is where Jews believed God's "real presence" remained.
So, when Jesus Christ died the veil was reported to have been "torn" (Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45). Thus, liturgically speaking there no longer remains any barrier between GOD'S presence and the "Bread of the PRESENCE" (Matthew 28:20).
So, if the veil was "torn" allowing GOD'S presence in the Holy of Holies to flow to the "BREAD of the PRESENCE" in the outer room of worship, then what does the Holy Eucharist or "Bread of the PRESENCE" truly become in the fulfilled NEW COVENANT FORM???
5. "ONE BREAD ONE BODY"
1 Corinthians 10:16-17. If the "many" become "ONE BODY" through "participation in" the ONE SACRIFICE of the "Lamb of GOD" Jesus Christ in the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER, then how can the Holy Eucharist logically be a mere symbol as Protestants purport???
Truly, we can ONLY become ONE BODY (1 Corinthians 10:16-17, Ephesians 5:29-32), ONE FLOCK (John 10:16), ONE TEMPLE (1 Corinthians 3:17), ONE CHURCH (Ephesians 4:4-6), ONE BRIDE (2 Corinthians 11:2) through the "ONE" Jesus Christ (John 6:54-58) the "Lamb of God" (John 1:29, 1 Corinthians 5:7, 1 Peter 1:19) in the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER (Luke 22:19).
6. "EAT AND DRINK JUDGMENT UPON OURSELVES"
1 Corinthians 11:27-29. If "partaking unworthily" is "eating and drinking JUDGMENT upon ourselves", then once again how logically can the Holy Eucharist merely be a symbol as Protestants purport???
7. Partaking of "Divinity" (John 6:55-56, 2 Peter 1:4, Catechism #460) is the only way to become a true Son or Daughter of GOD.
In the Garden of Eden man was created in the "image" and "likeness" of GOD. Through Adam and Eve's disobedience it caused us to lose our "likeness" to GOD (original sin). For how can GOD's "likeness" and goodness ever mix with sin??? (John 3:6, Romans Chapter 5) Jesus Christ is the NEW ADAM OF OBEDIENCE.
In God's beautiful salvation plan He takes a "do not partake" old Adam of disobedience and the removal of the "TREE OF LIFE" (Genesis 3:23), and completely transforms it into telling us to "partake" of the "TREE OF LIFE".
Catholics actually receive His priest, prophet and King "divinity" in the Holy Eucharist, thereby obtaining our "likeness" back if we only partake "worthily" (1 Corinthians 11:27-29). We truly become "divine" Sons and Daughters of GOD by "uniting" with Jesus Christ the NEW ADAM (Romans 5:12-21). As a result, we become a part of GOD'S NEW CREATION (2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 6:15, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:15-17, 20) here on earth.
The "TREE OF LIFE" hangs above every Catholic Church altar.
8. "Thanksgiving" or Jewish Todah
In this Jewish Messianic prophecy feast the "lamb" sacrifice had to occur at the same time the "bread and wine" was consecrated. Just as the Jews believed they were "participating in" the original timeless and eternal first PASSOVER when celebrating their old covenant "forever" GOD commanded Passover (Exodus 12:14), so do we Catholics believe we are "participating in" the ONE SACRIFICE of Jesus Christ during the consecration of the bread and wine (1 Corinthians 10:16-17) in the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER.
The Greek "Eucharistia" or English meaning "Thanksgiving" Feast for what Jesus Christ has done for us is the source, summit, and ultimate high point of worship in the NEW COVENANT.
9. "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:9).
Every CATHOLIC during the NEW COVENANT PASSOVER "Mass" enters the aisle and approaches the "Bridegroom" Jesus Christ the "Lamb of God" who hangs above every single Catholic altar. We see the "Bridegroom" who emptied Himself out of love for us on the cross - for His ONE and ONLY "BRIDE" - the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.
The "right and just" response of each and every Catholic is to give all of ourselves back to Him in the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" NEW COVENANT PASSOVER.
Historical support per Early Church Father beliefs on the "Real Presence" Holy Eucharist:
www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html
Be "ONE WITH CHRIST" by accepting His ONE and ONLY BODY in the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.
What is the matter with christians copy-pasting gigantic walls of texts, randomly capitalizing words and quoting bible verses? Do they really think it would convince anyone? That shouting at someone while refusing to listening is a decent replacement for an actual discussion?
Or is it an attempt to scare away the doubters of their own religion?
@@onetruefaith2091 so unconvincing..you fell for this drivel?
A full set? Bro, it's Catholic. You've just got yourself a starter set!
I'll trade you a Saint Solange for a Saint Bernadette...
I'm really thankful to you for these series of videos. I was indoctrinated into Catholicism at age 3 and I used to love all of these Catholic paraphernalia. In fact, in my school's cathedral we had a room dedicated specially to keeping saint's bones (literally). Now, fully deconverted, for years now,I realized just how weird it all was. Thank you Matt, from Latin America.
Your avatar suggest you are pretty young although that may be deceiving, I’ll be interested to know which school you went to that had its own cathedral (I know many schools were adjacent to a church but your own cathedral that’s magnificent) although the bones bit is completely within my experience.
@@thomascarroll9556 I'm 23. I guess that's pretty young, yes. I'm from Latin America, as I said, and that's pretty common here because the Catholic church receives money from the state and all religious schools are private. Also, on top of parents paying a monthly tuition, they also have to donate to thw school, so yeah...
I grew up attending Mass with my grandmother; never had a bad experience with it, but I share the same feeling you do with something you take as "normal" through a child's eyes, to "what kind of morbid curiosity is _this_ ?" as an adult. An atheist adult to boot.
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the One True Faith!
@@FaiaHalo
23 is old! You could be a grandmother.
As a former Catholic student I'm quite familiar with those little pamphlets and prayer cards Matt exhibited. During the 12½ years I spent in Catholic schools I probably received enough of them to make a stack a couple of feet high.
A steady steam of propaganda to innocent kids - how to warp a kids mind early.
Ignorance is not a miracle. Wow I love that.
A few years ago an exfriend tried to convince me of the Q-anon conspiracy. He played me a video from a so called expert. Now I couldn't honestly say that everything he said was wrong without research. But I know enough true things about the world to be 98% positive that at least 85% of everything else that he claimed was false. And since the few things I couldn't be just about 100% positive that they were false even though they were absurd. I could be rather positive that the rest was false also if he was wrong about everything I was sure about also.
@@channingdeadnight it is a rabithole, Qanon doesn't provide any evidence, just asserts alternative motives and tries to sow doubt. It really is liked to to those people with bordering paranoid trust issues. You can't defeat it with facts because they use distrust as basis and search anything to ligitimise it
Truly. If you see everything thst happens that is good as being God and everything that is bad is satan then you'll never learn anything about the world, or the universe.
I had a belief as a child that God had capped all the volcanoes with his special glue. I was very young. I didn't even know volcanoes still existed.
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the One True Faith!
@@louisbarrow4671 Spoken like a fool.
Pope-emon cards
Gotta save em’ all
🤣🤣🤣🏆
This reminds me a bit of when I went to a store to buy a book. I bought a Stephen King book and she mentioned that she hadn't read that one. I told her that I had recently finished his book "Dreamcatcher" and really liked it. I told her it wasn't really that scary but it was about aliens which I found interesting. She then said, "You know the government recently confirmed the existence of aliens, right?" I told her that the government had confirmed UFO sightings, not aliens. She responded, "Well who is flying the UFO's?!" I just asked if she knew what UFO stood for. She then thought for a second and responded, "You're right, they just confirmed that UFO's were real but who is flying them?" Thankfully someone came over and asked her a question so I was able to finish paying an leave. It was clear that for her the only answer for what a UFO is has to do with aliens. Neil DeGrasse Tyson had a great response to this when he said, "If you don't know what something is, you shouldn't then say, 'it must be aliens from another planet!'" This is what I think about when people talk about scientific and peer reviewed evidence for miracles. They don't seem to understand science nor the peer review process. They seem to think a website claiming to prove that a miracle or miracles have happened is evidence and peer reviewed proof. I did love your comment that "ignorance is not a miracle". That is so true.
Good point about UFO's I always get annoyed when people just assume that an unidentified object is an alien.
I, too, have seen unidentified flying objects. Quite weird. I have however not encountered any extra-terrestial or extra-stellar aliens. At least not to my knowledge.
Growing up, my family was not religious, but a few years ago, as an adult, my father and I attended a catholic mass, as part of a larger event for a different family member, and while the priest was preparing the eucharist, my dad leaned over and whispered to me "here comes the magic part", I responded "don't you mean the 'cannibalisms' part?", to which he smiled and replied "only if the magic works". This video reminded me of that experience.
You made my day!
I love this so much!
I love the "if it be the devine will" addage to one of the incantation.
If it's not, it won't happen so why ask? If it is, it will happen anyway, so why ask?
So... WHY ASK?
It's a good question, but perhaps too limited. "Why pray at all?" Prayer benefits the supplicant
I was a roman catholic for 40 years. Thanks to people like Matt, Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Barker, Shermer and others, I can happily say that I have "exorcised the demons" and live a free and full life. Thank you sincerely!
I was raised a Catholic but saw it for what it was. A Multi national business protecting child rapist and hiding behind Christinaty.
Well according to the Catholic church, they still count us as “non practicing” Catholics. They will still count us as members of the church unless we are excommunicated. Now talk about dishonest!
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the One True Faith!!
@@louisbarrow4671 along with about 4000 different x-tian sects...
@@uncreatedskeptic9968 well they mostly care about the church taxes you pay, at least here im germany :P
As an excatholic, while I was de converting it was incredibly surreal to realize that the things that had I had a deep emotional connection to (the catch-em-all Catholic paraphernalia and miracle stories) I had no actual reason to believe in.
If you come across an excatholic atheist who you respect you should promote them. I feel like ex catholic voices aren't as loud (or at least I can't find any prominent ones) but it would be nice if I could find someone who was spending their time addressing catholic-specific apologetics as opposed to general christian ones. Just like protestants have a feeling that catholics aren't "real" christians, catholics have that same superiority complex to protestants and I've noticed tend to dismiss ex-protestant arguments since they never experienced the "true" church.
I think there’s less push against Catholicism because they don’t deny science neither promote wacky ideas like creationism or biblical literalism.
I live in Italy. The church is there, it’s big and has its serious problems, but for the average person it’s more of a cultural thing than an actual belief.
Influence on society? Sure, but it’s not the cancer intertwined with politics to keep people ignorant and controllable that most American Christianity seems to be.
@@pansepot1490 I think in America you can divide the Catholic Church into two categories. Half or more of it is similar to what you describe. The other half though is extremely conservative, politically active, and powerful. There's a significant number of Catholic hospitals that are people's only access to health care, who deny patients certain care due to doctrinal reasons. Catholics are the most represented religion in the SCOTUS. Parishes and archdioceses funnel millions into pro life and anti lgbtq efforts every year. But I think unlike evangelicals who to an outsider seem more politically monolithic, because there are more "normal" Catholics who don't subscribe to what the other half thinks, the other half is downplayed.
I believe Jim Barrows from AXP is an exCatholic.
@@63electricmayhem you are correct, catholic hospitals being run on faith base and not on medical base is atrocious.
Yet it could be worse... just think if the JW had the power and money to buy hundreds of hospitals and would stop blood donations for everybody?
Or even worse... "Christian scientists" that do not believe in medicine at all, just trust in "faith healing" with the expectably bad results, often for small children that have an above average need for specialist care as compared to your normal Joe Adult...
From a Catholic perspective, there can be no "ex-members" or even "non-members" of the universal church - only those in communion, and those not in communion
The shroud of Turin claim is so strange to me. Even if it could be confirmed to come from early 1st century Jerusalem, it would be impossible to confirm whose body it was wrapped around without DNA testing. The only way to confirm the DNA testing would be to have the body to compare it to, which would negate the resurrection claim unless came back in person to have his DNA tested against the blood on the shroud. Having a cloth that a body was once wrapped in is wholly unremarkable, even if it is 2000 years old. Museums are full of burial garments, many much older.
They could DNA test it against the poop of any Catholic who's had Eucharist recently. They wouldn't find anything of course.
I'm a vegetarian so I can't take communion.
🤣🤣😅👏😂😂
It's a joke - I get it. For anyone literally concerned, I'm a vegetarian Catholic, and it's fine
I can't tell if this is a joke or a lie
As an Apostate Roman Catholic, who was on the path to Priesthood with 6yrs as Alter Boy including 1yr as Lead. Followed by 2yrs as an Acolyte. I can confirm Matt's description of The Mass. Pomp and circumstance for a solid hour. It was true H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS. Love ya Matt. Keep on rocking in the free world.
Saint and Mary "veneration/worship" was never called for
...but hopefully you aren't an apostate of the faith in Jesus altogether as there is a God who gave His Son on our behalf.
@@Captain_Of_A_Starship No there isn't so please stop lying too me. Thank you.
"That which is claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens (Hitchens Razor)
EDIT #1: What part of Aposate do you not understand??
EDIT #2: At least you know that if I'm around you and you trip I would try to catch you.. Or would you rather put your faith in your invisible sky dictator for your safety???
@@kylevogelgesang9996
👇
th-cam.com/video/YmczrxnPYSI/w-d-xo.html
👆
Are you really willing to bet even the possibility of eternity on yours and Christopher hitchens limited knowledge?
Edit... Atheist never actually seem to familiarize themselves with the over 50yrs of scientific research on the afterlife yet love harping about "evidence"
@@Captain_Of_A_Starship "Are you really willing to bet even the possibility of eternity on yours and Christopher hitchens limited knowledge?"
You making veiled idle threats on behalf of your imaginary friend isn't going to frighten us atheists into believing he's real, sorry. You might as well be saying "you better eat your vegetables or the bogeyman'll getcha!"
@@Captain_Of_A_Starship Are you willing to bet eternity on yours? What if you’re wrong and the Muslims are right?
When I was in grade 7 some friends and I were on recess at our religious school. We get on the subject of eucharist and I say, "you know I dont actually believe the bread turns into Jesus" to which my friends looked at me in shock and genuine terror. To save myself I remember saying "ohnonono i mean until it reaches you inSIDE" and they all sighed in relief "ohhhh okay okay"
But its funny how much if this is pure peer pressure, how questioning gives you looks and judgment.
That is because you are Satan! The wicked one!
Proof of resurrection
Shroud of Turin .
The Shroud of Turin is a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. A man that millions believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. Is it really the cloth that wrapped his crucified body, or is it simply a medieval forgery, a hoax perpetrated by some clever artist? Modern science has completed hundreds of thousands of hours of detailed study and intense research on the Shroud. It is, in fact, the single most studied artifact in human history, and we know more about it today than we ever have before. And yet, the controversy still rages. This web site will keep you abreast of current research, provide you with accurate data from the previous research and let you interact with the researchers themselves. We believe that if you have access to the facts, you can make up your own mind about the Shroud. Make sure you visit the page where you can Examine the Shroud of Turin for yourself. We hope you enjoy your visit. Barrie M. Schwortz, Editor.
shroud.com/
th-cam.com/video/w4RBXVs70_g/w-d-xo.html
m.th-cam.com/video/4G4sj8hUVaY/w-d-xo.html
@@mathew4181 One of the basic pieces of furniture, a chair is a type of seat. Its primary features are two pieces of a durable material, attached as back and seat to one another at a 90° or slightly greater angle, with usually the four corners of the horizontal seat attached in turn to four legs-or other parts of the seat's underside attached to three legs or to a shaft about which a four-arm turnstile on rollers can turn-strong enough to support the weight of a person who sits on the seat (usually wide and broad enough to hold the lower body from the buttocks almost to the knees) and leans against the vertical back (usually high and wide enough to support the back to the shoulder blades). The legs are typically high enough for the seated person's thighs and knees to form a 90° or lesser angle.[1][2] Used in a number of rooms in homes (e.g. in living rooms, dining rooms, and dens), in schools and offices (with desks), and in various other workplaces, chairs may be made of wood, metal, or synthetic materials, and either the seat alone or the entire chair may be padded or upholstered in various colors and fabrics.
@@SatansFire 🤔🤔🙄🙄
@@mathew4181 Even if Jesus was a single person, and you do have a shroud from his burial. Which by the way you don't, even Christian biblical scholars admit the the shroud comes from the either the 13-14th century. Is probably a fake and is best a icon of faith and not the liteal shroud. But even if the Shroud was that old and was used to bury a claimed messiah, it proves nothing about those divine messiah claims.
“If i accepted this claim as true, what about the world _that i already know to be true_ would have to change?”
I’m paraphrasing Matt there, but i think fairly.
And it just clicked in my head that that’s precisely why so many are so resistant to questioning the claims of their religion.
They _know_ the claims of their religion to be true., as surely as they know anything.
So how can they even seriously entertain any claim that opposes / seems to oppose that religion? Why, they’d have to set aside nearly _everything_ they they *know to be true* .
I’m not poking fun, and this isn’t some New Deep Understanding. Quite the opposite - as i said, it literally just occurred to me, even though i’m a recovering Southern Baptist who _knew_ soooo many preposterous things to be unimpeachably true.
You activated my "Look at the trees" trap card!
I’ve Ben raised Catholic, and it’s interesting seeing an atheists perspective on this. I’ll definitely watch the debate you mentioned.
I went to a catholic funeral once, was far more ceremonial in nature than any other christian funeral i've attended, far more miserable too. From what i recall it seemed to be mostly about pleading for god's mercy instead of actually remembering the guy who we'd all come out for (who wasn't particularly religious so i guess it was his family wanted it like that)..
They make up for the misery at the wake 😂
I don’t know if it’s a Catholic or christian thing, but there’s nothing more infuriating to me than going to a marriage or funeral where the priest spends more time preaching than celebrating the event or celebrating the dead and easing people into letting go of him.
Of course big g has to come up at some point, it’s still a religious ceremony, but don’t use it as an excuse to preach, use your understanding of the religion to celebrate, advise, and ease, not to preach >
@@nathanjora7627 It's a whole captive audience of people not usually there on Sunday. Gotta push the grift!
@@Zaprozhan Pretty much yeah, although I would honestly not be surprised if they were just that detached from reality.
In either case it’s just disgusting though :/
Matt: "I was taught Catholicism is a Mary-worshiping cult where they pray to saints."
That's word for word what my mother -- a devout Episcopalian -- told me as a child. I was warned NEVER to go inside a Catholic church or they wouldn't let me out again! (more of Mama's "guidance")
When her younger brother married a Catholic woman and converted, Mom's entire family was HORRIFIED and predicted terrible things would happen. (Nothing did, but they were still wringing their hands years later.)
My husband's sister married a non-observant Catholic, and her parents (Lutherans) almost didn't go to her wedding because... Catholic.
Apparently, the nonsense our European ancestors created over the issue back in the 1500s still exists 500 years later.
!!!
When is the world going to hold this criminal organization to account?
The Catholic Church is not a criminal organization. It is a huge organization, so of course, there will be delinquent members. Calling the Catholic Church a "criminal organization" is like calling professional medical organizations criminal because a few doctors abuse their patients.
@@francmittelo6731 The Catholic Church hid the crimes of their priests, interfered in police investigations by trying to intimidate and bribe witnesses and instead of firing the priests once their crimes were known they transferred the pedophiles to new hunting grounds.
The Catholic Church is a criminal organization, and will continue to be one until they ensure every, priest, cardinal, bishop and pope who were aware of the situation but did nothing is fully prosecuted under the law.
@@leebarnett2610 It doesn't make the Catholic church a criminal organizations. Your logic makes almost every single large enough organization a criminal organization. Is the American government a criminal organization?
@@francmittelo6731 I'm guessing that you're a Catholic that DIDN'T get accused by a priest.
Organisation=a group working together with the same end in mind
Criminal= one who does or contributed to or who is complicit with the commission of a crime.
So arguably, (depending on the exact subject at hand) Yes. Both are criminal organisations
@@tracewallace23 So, the American government is a criminal organization?
The Catholic Church is not working with the goal to sexually abuse its members.
Some members of the Catholic church are in power, and they abuse that power. This true in any large organization.
Ugh, I'm arguing on Twitter with a theist about whether The Bible promotes slavery.
Apparently, I'm ignorant.
Had to come get some logic & reason.
you're not, they are, there is no way to defend that book and its thoughts on slavery honestly, its horrific
Give 'em hell. Or deny them their heaven? I made it a few months on twitter before I couldn't take the religidiots and ammosexuals anymore. So, I'm glad someone still takes some of them on.
Let me guess. They are arguing that indentured servitude isn't slavery?
Just ask them if they are willing to be your indentured servant for life.
@@nameforcomments4092 one said, "it's talking about slavery as in obedience to god."🤦♀️
Then the goalposts moved from there. I did get an, "oh well that's the old testament."🙄
@@msfair3625 All the classics, huh?
I love Matt's angle and what he and the team do on TAE. Rationality, reason and logic.
I like the guy thought "Matt is pretty convincing we need him" and not "my arguments are convincing." What fantasy land does he live in where he watched Matt's videos and though this would work, let alone not look ridiculous?
I think his thought process was more of making an earnest plea for him to “switch sides” as opposed to “this will totally work and these prayer/Saints cards (or whatever they’re called) will certainly do the trick.”
Can’t blame the guy for trying. At least he was upfront about his goal and that is respectable.
Please do more videos addressing specifically Catholic claims
Starting with Aquinas perhaps.
Thank you for this instructional video. Much appreciated.
Most Catholics I have met are very nice, and very uninformed about their own religion.
That is intentional. It's to keep the congregation in ignorance. Having been raised RCC I know how it works.
@@AbaddonIrewhy is it that no other religion on earth has this widespread amount of miracles? None. Islam? No. Buddhism? No. Hinduism? No.
@@TaylorR-kr2nwbecause Catholics have very very low standards of evidence. Jesus appearing on a piece of toast is not even useful. Why doesn't this god stop wars or cure disease?
It's hard to fathom that there are people so out of touch with reality, they will get down on their knees while a balding old man dressed like a wizard puts a cracker in their mouth and flicks tapwater at their forehead. Talk about a waste of time
Stop with that cliche line of talking about religion. Matt doesn’t talk like that. It convinces no one
Anyone can say the exact same thing about your position. If us religious people are out of touch with reality then demonstrate it.
@@the_polish_prince8966 Go ahead. What pointless rituals do I regularly partake in OR what unrealistic positions do I hold?
@@2014saints one of the toughest things to me, during my de-conversion, was trying to wrap my head around just how much time and effort humans waste on futile things, thinking that they will help our situation. At first I started thinking about my own time "wasted" in prayer and Bible study, but I come from a family that has attended the same denomination for generations; that's lifetimes!
It became very tempting to want to believe that all of that well-intentioned effort wouldn't just be reduced to something like an SOS being broadcast on a channel with no listeners. How heartbreaking and terrifying! 😲 That's when it hit me, that even if my beliefs were correct, I had already condemned most of human history to this fate and just *really really* wanted it to not also be a waste of time for my ancestors as well. Of course, really really wanting something to be true is not a good reason to actually believe it's true. ☺️
The most entertaining thing to me about this subject is that even atheists still retain a bit of tribalism between Catholicism and Protestantism. Ive seen it many times, even though its hard to admit for an atheist. I find that fascinating.
True 100% know it from my own experience. I was raised Catholic in Central Europe and when I moved to Scotland and they have two football teams one Protestant and one Catholic I knew instantly who to root for.
I was raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic schooling. To me it was just another chore to do. When I got out, I vowed no more church chores. 9 years later I met my wife. She was big on Jesus and Mary, and demanded that we live as Catholics and raise our kids Catholic. I agreed. She passed away after 40 years married. What I would give to go to church with her now.
Going to church always put a smile on her face and made her happy. That made me happy.
Never believed any of it.
I grew up catholic in the southern Germany/northern Italy tradition (now atheist), and while I don't deny that those people that lean hard into saints worship and material transsubstantiation are catholics, it's still wild to hear it put like that.
The way I was taught that stuff was more along the lines of that old tripe phrase "you are a soul, you have a body" in the sense that while the cracker is still only baked flour and water in a sense, in all spiritual aspects, which are the only ones that really matter, it's the body of Christ. A bit like how muscles, fat, organs, and bones vary wildly in composition but are still parts of our bodies, I suppose the body of a god can consist of all kinds of stuff.
The saints veneration was always presented as courting an ally to support your petition, who has better standing with god and who cares about the issue at hand. They aren't themselves godly and are more like heaven's lower nobility. Their holiness is the other definition of the word. As such they aren't worshipped themselves but aside from being petitioned for support, they are frequently used as exalted role models.
Anyway, just my two cents on European Catholicism and how I used to make the teachings fit the world I saw. One of these days I have to ask my uncle, who is now a deacon, a few questions. Might be that the church just knows to be vague about the whole thing so everyone can come up with their own rationalisation.
Yup. I grew up Catholic in Italy and I learned about literal transubstantiation from TH-cam because atheists and protestant were talking about it. As s a kid I used to hear about eating the body of Christ during mass but I always thought it was symbolic. Never even crossed my mind (or anybody told me) that it was supposed to be literal.
Keeping it vague seems exactly the tactic the Catholic Church is using. I remember I was shocked when I learned that the Church doesn’t officially recognize the Turin shroud as genuine, when I had first hand knowledge that it encourages the spreading of information about it being scientifically proven.
I think after all the reformations attacking it, the Catholic church has learned to not be too rigid in their doctrine. Sure, the doctrine still exists but how it gets put into practice varies regionally and largely depends on the priest and/or bishop of that region.
That way they can tailor the experience to the customer. People there don't like the gays? Bash them. Conflict with other groups? Hellfire and Brimstone await them! Pretty prosperous region with little to no problems? Eh, don't rock the boat. Hell is for other people anyway, better not mention it or people might get upset and question god's omni-benevolence.
I learned of hell mostly by accident, because we passed by an exhibit of illustrations to Dante's Divine Comedy and my mother was interested. I've never in my life heard a religious preacher (priest or teacher) mention hell either in the church or outside of it, and I was an altar boy! Heaven and hell weren't used as carrot and stick at all.
@@pansepot1490 Many of those same Protestants will be hesitant and vague about many of their own absolute certainties in faith until the new believers (or prospective believers) are deeply embedded in church life, not wanting to scare anyone off. Information is shared gradually when the believer is thought ready. Often a church's original comeon is an outright lie.
"We need you on the team!"
They think belief is a sport. A lot of drama but ultimately little relevance to reality.
Have you never heard the old (and not that funny) joke? Jesus saves, but Moses scored on the rebound.
Well, my head's come off countless times. It's not nearly as bad as people say.
Used to happen to me on weekends. It's not so bad, you get used to it.
I worked in a nursing home that had mass every Sunday, and the priest would visit the bed ridden patients later. I came upon one of my patients later, an elderly lady who was in a vegetative state, just laying there and unresponsive, with the host sitting on her tongue. She was too out of it to swallow. What a delimma! Non-believing half Jewish me, I knew it was a big deal but I was afraid the poor lady would choke to death. I know I took it out but I can't remember what I did with it. Oh well, I was already headed for hell.
When I was a youngster in a catholic family community attending catholic school we were told we had to be especially sorry for Jews (Jesus killers) as they had had their chance to see Jesus witnesses miracles and they still turn their backs, fancy teaching kids that sort of passive aggressive hatred. But people were much more tolerant than that I knew and families that were headed by a catholic mother and Jewish father, girls were raise Catholics and the boys racist Jewish although I know now that was obviously complete bollocks as I believe that Jews believe that their Jewishness is passed down through the female line. It is hateful though to teach children things that you don’t know for certain are true.
@@thomascarroll9556 like theoretical physics?
@@MarcillaSmith I suppose so the Catholic Church are the ultimate God of the gaps brigade
@@thomascarroll9556 "God of the gaps" sounds more like low theology - opposite end of the spectrum from Catholicism - although I've no doubt that it can be found amongst the laity, and even some clergy
It was a good move. No one should be put in danger for religious practices.
Thanks Matt. I was 18 in 1965, all my education had been catholic, but I wasn't buying it. After a few months of listening to you, I'm pretty sure I never really bought into the catholic crazyness. I was pretty much an atheist by twelve.
As a funeral director we print out prayer cards 1 sheet = 8 cards. The most popular Catholic ones had a different picture on each card. We had to print extras because people had to get one of each
were the catholic run world war two ratlines part of the card set?
Oh no Matt, They have been at work for centuries. You will have a few more cards to go... ;)
As a 12 year old, during school hours, me & my friend "set the vestments" for the priest for mass.
We used to have a swig of the "blood" and smoke the matches. Aah, fond memories.
The rest of being a catholic was shit n nonsense.
Leaving the Catholic Church has had a great effect on my life. I don't miss it at all
Ha Ha, my late dad was an alter boy, and he and his mates would get into the "blood" as well. Thanks for reminding me of that memory. Thankfully, by early adulthood, he became well and truly lapsed.
"a caller who claimed peer-reviewed scientific confirmation of eucharist miracles."
Peer reviewed? As in scientists reviewed the evidence and confirmed the miracles?
Or does the caller mean Catholic peers reviewed the evidence and confirmed the claimed Catholic miracle?
If I weren't Catholic, I'd look for the Church that the world despises, for the world despised Jesus, and he would be there. - Fulton Sheen
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.". Things seemed to be going pretty well. That is until Jesus said “For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood,dwelleth in me, and I in him.” This was too much for many of his disciples and “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.” Jesus turns to the 12 and asks, “Will ye also go away? Vs 61, Jesus did not back down, for He said, "Does this offend you?" it offends protestants
Jn 20:21, "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
Jn 17:18, "Even as thou hast sent Me into the world, so I have sent them into the world."
Jn 17:22-23, "And the glory that thou hast given Me, I have given to
Matt. 28, 18-20: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye, therefore. and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."
"Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior," or "Ask Jesus into your heart" isn't the biblical answer.
It’s important to be saved from hell, damnation, and the stain of original sin, but what are we saved for? We are saved for union with Christ. Our salvation began when we were born again through baptism and God’s own Divine Life was restored in our souls, making us like Adam and Eve were in the Garden before the Original (first) Sin. As we go through life, we are united with Christ through the Sacraments he left as gifts for us, especially through Penance (forgiveness of our sins committed since Baptism) and the Eucharist (partaking of God’s own Life, His own Divine Nature, 2 Peter 1:4) - until that day when we are truly united with Him in heaven.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31-46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell. (For the teaching on venial (non-deadly) and mortal (deadly) sins, see 1 John 5:16-17)
What I must do to be saved:
*I must be baptized with water and the Spirit. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5, Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21. (Exceptions: [1] If I desire Baptism but die before I can be baptized with water and the Spirit, God accepts my desire to be baptized, and [2] If I am killed (martyred) because of my faith, but I have not had the opportunity to be baptized, God accepts my death as my baptism, called the Baptism of Blood).
* I must do the will of God the Father. Matthew 7:21
* I must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:17, 1 Timothy 6:14, and others.
* I must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27. Phil 1:29, and others.
* I must be a member of God's true church. Acts 2:46-47.
* I must confess my sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9, John 20:19-23
* I must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.
* I must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16-17, 11:23-30.
* I must do unto others as I would have them do unto me and love my neighbor as myself. I must feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison or give other aid to those in need. Luke 10:33 ff, Mt 25:31-46. "Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are very pleasing to God" Hebrews 13:16. Good works don’t save us, but we will be judged by them.
*I must strive to be holy. "Strive for peace with everyone and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14
*I must endure (persevere) to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.
And ... ? What else must I do?
#432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Miraculous medal
I am an atheist now. That use to be a bad word to me, things change though. Just in the last year it finally came to that. Raised Christian Pentecostal. I couldn't never understand why must I ask for forgiveness what have I done to this God that I must do that. I may have shed the belief in hell and other religious things but I truly believed in God, talked to God asked for help. I ended up these last couple years putting my hand out show me grab my hand...nothing. It hurts to even think about. I was born with a questioning mind scientific very much so. There is no such thing as nothing that is a human concept just like the bible to many human concepts. There is an process by which universes are made, that is just how it works. It's what it does. I came up with that independently but scientist will pretty much tell you the same thing. I can get by without it. I actually feel like I'm better without it. I can't justify anything through religion, I can't dehumanize others because of there religion. I hope that's understandable. I'm still a good person, I have a big kind heart. I don't want to offend anyone either. My advice is always, don't lose your faith or belief you will not like how it feels. Me I just can't anymore anhd I won't. Much love to all my fellow human beings. I truly love everyone♡
I share a Birthday with Mother Teresa. Aug 26th.
@@benjaminwebb5759 Look into Catholicism. Don't join, just study it. You will be surprised. If you have an analytic mind like me, you can start with The Thomistic Institute youtube videos. There's also the Coming Home Network website where you will watch hundreds of testimonies of people from all theist and atheist backgrounds.
4:28 Loving that humor.
Yeah, just who are those guys? We've never seen them before. Who could they possibly be?
As an Irish former-catholic it was a bit of a revelation that most of the world wasn't Catholic. I always assumed it was the default brand of christianity.
The american fundamentalist belief that catholics aren't christian is just bizzare to me.
IKR? Like saying Greece isn't really a democracy
"Bro just think about it. You'd make a sharp Catholic."🤣😝 God works in more mysterious ways than Scooby Doo...🤯💀
The bro is probably a cradle Catholic like me but hasn't taken the time to delve into the rich intellectual side of Catholicism.
Hmmm, I dunno, those were some fine pictures on those cards. I think I'm on the fence about this whole Catholicism thing now.
I’m 84...a brief history...1939 Pope Pious 12th “Give me a child between 5 and 10 and I will give you a Catholic for the rest of their lives” and thus began the INDOCTRINATION. Blank created blank in blank days; first test in Catechism! After service in Korea I wanted io help the world so I entered the Novitiate to become a Jesuit. There are the exact words the Monsignor said “ These stories in this book are questionable, but we are going to teach you how to defined them.After a heated exchange he was pounding on my chest with his index finger...I broke it and left. Immaculate Conception, Resurrection and Transubstantiation are all Pseudepigrapha.
Well they dudnt get this 'child for life' or many in my family.
Hi. Matt. Watching in the uk. Your sound is slightly out of sync with the video. So listening instead of watching.
Little did my parochial school know I was an atheist at 8 years old. But the mother superior did call me the devil for arguing against the bible to my 7th grade nun teacher. I was suspended and then kicked out of school by the 5th grade, for winning an argument against moses and noahs existence with the same mother superior. Yup I'm the devil I guess
A devil in their minds maybe but certainly not in reality :)
A few comments:
(Loved the video. Matt can be very logical at times)
1) I loved a comment I found in response to one of Matt's videos:
"If your god existed I would not need you tell tell me that your god existed."
2) This comment can be paraphrased to include Matt's point about the Eucharist
"If what you are telling me is true I would not have needed you to tell me it is true. Why isn't it
written up in peer review journals? Why are you telling me and not noted scientists?"
3) But my fun point is that a Catholic priest in La Crosse Wisconsin USA is at it again.
In the summer of 2020 he proclaimed that anyone who voted Democrat in the USA elections
would be damned to hell. The broader church did not see fit to disagree with the priest until around
October when the Bishop said that voting was a private matter and was not subject to damnation.
The week that Matt made this video the priest said that everyone involved with pushing the
pandemic would be damned to hell and everyone who wore a mask or got vaccinated would
also be damned to hell. (There is some confusion here about who he meant.)
There has been no official outcry to this date, a week later.
My point is that Catholicism is not really a religion of peace and love and what they say in public is more of a lure into the "hell" of religion than a stance of caring. In my opinion of course. To me the more they push their crazy definition of hell the more parishioners they will lose. The more "hell" is ballooned out of the sheer realm of logic the more ridiculous it looks even to insiders.
Thank you for letting me rant a bit.
15:20+ "Emotional responses."
Hit the nail on the head! When the emotions are involved in decision making, then critical thinking is (temporarily) suspended. Same happens in so many aspects of our lives. This happened to me many times when I was young with regards to religion and intimate relationships. I have a conversation most Fridays with a Southern Baptist pastor and he has candidly admitted to me that his whole belief is founded on faith and feelings. He does try to justify and qualify those things based on testing them against the Bible but at the end of the day it is a form of confirmation bias.
Manipulate the emotions and you've got them! I had the pleasure (?) of seeing Billy Graham in the 80s and he was an expert at this. A lot of evangelistic outreach does the same. The use of music, testimonies, false empathy and being surrounded by lots of people who are already in the 'club' works very well and especially well if anyone is going through any kind of life-crisis and therefore is more vulnerable to this kind of manipulation.
I've been an atheist for 28 years. (Soon turning 64.) I have a history of Mormonism, Seventh-day Adventism, Church of England (Episcopalian) and lots of bad relationship decisions! I live in the UK.
Having been born and raised Catholic, the sheer number of "mysteries" and "inexplicable articles of faith" were the driving force behind my almost immediate rejection of the faith. The first one was the Doctrine of the Trinity, followed closely by the Doctrine of Transubstantiation. Definitely a hard pill, or transubstantiated body of Christ, as it were, to swallow. :p
No Catholic intellectual (men and women far more intelligent than you) for centuries found those doctrines "hard to swallow".
If Catholic priest's are afraid of hell why has so many of them commited crimes against the most innocent children. That's unforgivable.
I drummed at the Pentecostal church my dad pastored, and our sound was part gospel and part contemporary. Tbh, we had the best music in all of southern Illinois. But the rock stuff and heavier bands never played at any Pentecostal churches I attended. That was always at the independent or general Christian churches. Too edgy, methinks ;)
Sounds like it was fun attending church.
"Ignorance is not a miracle" very true, well said.
Proof of resurrection
Shroud of Turin .
The Shroud of Turin is a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. A man that millions believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. Is it really the cloth that wrapped his crucified body, or is it simply a medieval forgery, a hoax perpetrated by some clever artist? Modern science has completed hundreds of thousands of hours of detailed study and intense research on the Shroud. It is, in fact, the single most studied artifact in human history, and we know more about it today than we ever have before. And yet, the controversy still rages. This web site will keep you abreast of current research, provide you with accurate data from the previous research and let you interact with the researchers themselves. We believe that if you have access to the facts, you can make up your own mind about the Shroud. Make sure you visit the page where you can Examine the Shroud of Turin for yourself. We hope you enjoy your visit. Barrie M. Schwortz, Editor.
shroud.com/
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@@mathew4181 feel free to demonstrate how you get from *this is a genuine artifact* to *it proves this Jesus guy had magic powers and came back to life after being executed*
@@a10miletooth Quote
"The tests on fibers from the Shroud of Turin produced the following dates: FTIR = 300 BC + 400 years; Raman spectroscopy = 200 BC + 500 years; and multi-parametric mechanical = 400 AD + 400 years. All the dates have a 95% certainty. The average of all three dates is 33 BC + 250 years ...Italian scientists working at the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (ENEA) conducted experiments on their own time between 2005 and 2010, applying ultraviolet radiation to strips of linen to see if they could match the coloration on the fibers of the Shroud of Turin. In their ENEA technical report, published in November 2011, they wrote that particular doses of radiation left a thin coating on linen fibers that resemble the colored fibers on the image of the Shroud of Turin. When questioned, the lead scientist in the study, Paolo Di Lazzaro, said that vacuum ultraviolet radiation (VUV, wavelength 200-100 nanometers) from laser pulses lasting less than 50 nanoseconds produced the best effect.
These findings support the idea that the image on the Shroud was made by a sudden flash of high-energy radiation. They also refute the possibility of forgery, since lasers were obviously not available in medieval times.
The technical report: P. Di Lazzaro, D. Murra, E. Nichelatti, A. Santoni, G. Baldacchini: "Colorazione similsindonica di tessuti di lino tramite radiazione nel lontano ultravioletto: riassunto dei risultati ottenuti presso il Centro ENEA di Frascati negli anni 2005-2010" RT/2011/14/ENEA (2011).
BLOOD EVIDENCE (vs PAINT THEORY)
Most bloodstains on the Shroud are exudates from clotted wounds transferred to the cloth by contact with a wounded human body.
The blood on the Shroud is real, human male blood of the type AB (typed by Dr. Baima Ballone in Turin and confirmed in the U.S.). This blood type is rare (about 3% of the world population), with the frequency varying from one region to another. Blood chemist Dr. Alan Adler (University of Western Connecticut) and the late Dr. John Heller (New England Institute of Medicine) found a high concentration of the pigment bilirubin, consistent with someone dying under great stress or trauma and making the color more red than normal ancient blood ...The image on the Shroud is of a man 5 feet 10 1/2 inches tall, about 175 pounds, covered with scourge wounds and blood stains. Numerous surgeons and pathologists (including Dr. Frederick Zugibe (Medical Examiner - Rockland, New York), Dr. Robert Bucklin (Medical Examiner - Las Vegas, Nevada), Dr. Herman Moedder (Germany), the late Dr. Pierre Barbet (France), and Dr. David Willis (England)) have studied the match between the Words, Weapons and Wounds, and agree that the words of the New Testament regarding the Passion clearly match the wounds depicted on the Shroud, and that these wounds are consistent with the weapons used by ancient Roman soldiers in Crucifixion.
Specifically, the scourge marks on the shoulders, back, and legs of the Man of the Shroud match the flagrum (Roman whip) which has three leather thongs, each having two lead or bone pellets (plumbatae) on the end. The lance wound in the right side matches the Roman Hasta (4cm x 1 cm spear wound). Iron nails (7" spikes) were used in the wrist area (versus the palms as commonly depicted in Medieval art). These marks, combined with the capping of thorns which is not found anywhere else in Crucifixion literature of ancient Roman (Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger) or Jewish historians (Flavius Joesphus, Philo of Alexandria) create a unique signature of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
@@mathew4181 Should I be waiting for the proof of resurrection? Because all that doesn't come even remotely close to getting from "this is a genuine artifact" to "it proves Jesus was magical and came back to life after being executed." I don't care how well versed you are in copy/paste unless you're going to do it with something relevant.
Again, please, feel free to demonstrate how the shroud proves the resurrection.
In the 1950's, children like myself, were indoctrinated/the catechism as a primer, then rewarded/first holy communion after reaching the "age of reason" (usually around 7 yrs of age).
I was the sane in the 60s. Did you have Catechism classes? I remember them well when the teacher asked us questions lije 'Who made you'? We answered like robots 'God made me'. These questions were all in a little blue book called the Catechism. A bit like the little Red Book of Chairman Mao.😅
The slogan on EWTN (Catholic Radio / TV) is: (are you ready) "Live Truth, Live Catholic". I often listen in my car. It's torturous.
I went to Germany a year ago and was struck by the quaint cathedral or church in the small town. Once a week or so, most of the town gathers in this beautiful place to reflect and be together. There was moving music, gorgeous architecture, beams of light through stained glass, men wearing ornately embroidered dresses and wizard hats…I saw beauty in that. The beliefs themselves couldn’t be more ridiculous, but the community and shared experience seems to have some… usefulness(?)
One of the odd things about the Church is that it is not actually necessary to believe in any miracles except the Resurrection. That seemed so bizarre to me - why go through the trouble of approving miracles and having all of these stories just to say “oh yeah, you can believe it didn’t happen”.
I never understood that. I’m also no longer a Catholic.
Damn! That's a whole deck of Catholic magic saints Gathering cards. Collectors item?
Your description of the Eucharist is incorrect. Transubstantiation takes place when the Priest consecrates the host not when you eat you the host.
In many recent mafia crackdown, the Italian police have frequently found these Saint cards called Santini in the safe houses of these mafia bosses, because you need some Saint protector to stay alive and win your war against other gangs.
Hey Matt! Can I know what microphone you are using? I really like it.
The name is actually visible if you add in the few missing letters. Bluebird -- or rather Blue Bluebird is the excact model. Aroundish 300 € new incl. tax.
@@haraldschuster3067 Oh cool, thanks bro.
@@haraldschuster3067 Wow, good eye..lol
I live in a country where a Catholic priest called the police, because a 13-year-old boy took the communion wafer out of his mouth and hid it into his pocket. The priest told the police that the boy might have commited an offence against religious feelings.
@@ResourcefulNomad Poland
i just laughed so hard at the "mystery mystery mystery" part. grew up catholic and yeah, what shall i say... even at the communion the priest prepares the ritual with the words "mystery of our belief". also always taken gladly: "the ways of our lord are mysterious".
My gran collects these cards. She exchanges them with her friends, it seems to me a bit like that's what catholics did before the internet hit :P
Recently I discovered that apparently in the christian orthodox church people are *hyped* about these pictures, not only on cards but they even have dedicated icon altars, walls and even churches painted full of people deemed good by the church.
Maybe we should consider doing such a thing for the humanist movement? The concept obviously works psychologically and as long as we don't link supernatural bs to it should be fine. Or am I missing something obvious?
Really appreciate your content. It's encouraging to see atheists making a case that we don't need religion, not only by using clear and well though out speech, but also by being a great human being while doing so. Thanks for that.
I grew up in a regular Canadian Catholic environment, in a region were the majority of people were at least nominal Catholics. I became an atheist as a teenager simply from broad reading and self-reflection. I never had any negative experience of the Church, priests, or the nuns that taught me in school. They were all perfectly nice. However, one thing I remember was that Catholics in Canada had a very poor opinion of American Catholicism ---- American Catholics seemed to sound and behave more like Protestants, and not the sane sensible Protestants who were our neighbours in Canada, but the crazy Protestants we heard about in the southern U.S. They were obsessed with all the same things as these wacky Protestants --- miracles and controlling people's sexual lives ---- which we were taught were childish obsessions, beneath the dignity of a modern Catholic. In my environment, nobody ranted against evolution or attacked science, and nobody associated religion with any particular political party. Nobody preached about damnation or hell-fire. My teachers ---- brothers and nuns ---- would have laughed at me if I had asked about the Shroud of Turin. That was for the gullible peasants in backward countries. When I asked a Dominican brother of my acquaintance some questions about theology, he urged me to read up on the Greek philosophers, Thomas Aquinas, Erasmus, and Thomas a Kempis . He also recommended some Protestant writers, Andre Gide, Karl Barth, Reinhold Niebuhr, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, whom he admired, as well as some atheists like Albert Camus. Later, he urged me to read the poetry of Rimbaud and Gerard Manley Hopkins, and the works of Antoine de Saint-Exupery, as well as a Canadian philosopher, Thomas De Koninck, who as a child inspired Saint-Exupery to write The Little Prince. Though I didn't share his faith by this time, I certainly respected his intellect. He didn't treat me as an "apostate" who had to be lured back to the fold, but as a fellow journeyer.
When I later spent some time living in the U.S., I learned that American Catholicism was indeed practiced very differently. None of the same tolerance or good humour. I kept encountering people who had been saturated in a cult-like atmosphere that bore no resemblance to the parish priests coaching hockey teams, pleasant Christmas celebrations, and nuns teaching spelling to third-graders or working as nurses in hospitals that were my image of Catholicism. That image, of course, was not entirely true. I did not have the same experience as the kids trapped in the First Nations residential schools, or the orphanages in Newfoundland, where there was serious child abuse --- which could be easily covered up by the respectable reputation of the Church. There was a dark side in Canada, too.
Haven’t even started watching yet. And I’m wondering if this is going to be partly about Canadian Catholic lol.
Don’t say his name! That’s how you summon him. He was last seen lurking on Dunkin’ Atheists Discord channel.
ok im sorry that this is totally off topic and random but i have the same question every time i see this type of microphone... what is that giant M shaped cable and frame for? it looks like its only anchored to a small ring near the base(?) of the mic as it hangs, i've also seen it on stand mics
It's a shock mount used to suspend the microphone and prevent any contact with the microphone that might introduce noise into the recording.
Tithes, threats if you leave, threats if you don’t join, initiation process usually forced by parents beginning at birth. Catholicism is very alarming!!!
You’re describing Mormonism. I grew up Catholic: never experienced any threat for joining or leaving and never paid any tithes.
Indoctrination from birth is common to all religions and it has more to do with the parents than with religion itself.
@@pansepot1490 so you don’t believe in hell then?
@@daryldixon5587 for Catholics, hell means that you are separated from God. It is not an actual location, there are no tortures, except for the separation from God.
It is rarely used as a threat, more like an incentive.
This is the position of the catholic church today. It was completely different in the past, more in line with the traditional view, with devils, fires...
I had some old catholic prayer books that belonged to my grandparents. They talked about Indulgences and how you could pray for the deceased to get them out of Purgatory, e.g. so many Our Fathers for so many weeks/months in Purgatory. I knew about Indulgences but never knew they were measured so accurately!! I thought, people really believe this rubbish. In Medieval times the rivh could pay for Indulgences - one of the reasons why Martin Luther challenged the Catholic Church and so the Reformation began. Those prayer books were from the 1940/50s so just shows how this Medieval belief never went away. Those medals look like Lourdes medals which depict Mary appearing to Bernadette in the famous catholic holy site of Lourdes in France.
Tbh, it's not just "if this were true" it's also "if this were not true" as a skeptical litmus test.
As an ex-Catholic, I sort of agree that Catholic view is the closest one to compatibility with reality, but I don't think it's a good thing. Catholicism is nothing more than just Christian doctrine that dynamically adapts to changes but out of necessity, not due to confirmation of their views. It's like water that fills its container, if the container changes, so does the water. Even bishops within the Church are unhappy that the Church's teachings change so much to appease the masses and un-contradict the science.
I could bet that they hate that, if it was fully liberal approach towards science and social stuff, there is a risk, that many followers will lose reason to follow
Peoples views should change with new information. That is 100% a good thing.
This is one of the issues that I had when I used to be catholic and an issue with Christianity as a whole. Catholicism changes it’s rules and views based on the time period. This causes a tug of war between Catholics because they are not as unified as they say they are. The pope is believed to be infallible, but bishops, priests, and regular church goers seem to have a hard time accepting the popes viewpoints.
@@moses2998 this is a common misconceptions. Popes are individual humans as the rest of us are. The doctrine of infallibility only applies when they are speaking _ex cathedra_ in the capacity of their office
It has been changed over the centuries. The Church used to believe in reincarnation til they deciddd not to.
Thank you very much Mister Dilahunty for this pleasant and healthy word,I never heard before: Catholic Propaganda, it's like in US you would say capitalistic Propaganda,or in Soviet Union have said:Kommunistic Propaganda..... greetings a former Catholic Cannibal,since about 19 atheist,now anti theist
I was brought up in a strict catholic family where I saw a lot of hypocrisy. My stepmother was a convert (the worse). She treated me terribly but was there every Sunday with her rosary beads. I left the Church when I was 17 but returned in my 20s but it never resonated with me. I was very innolved in church activities but when I returned to education in my late 30s and studied Philosophy and Theology at university I became agnostic. The abuse and cover ups in the Catholic Church has proved to ne that evil is alive and well in this organisation. I do not like any organised religion.
re - 4:40
The one on the right is Saint Buggery, the patron saint of Catholic-Priests-Who-Love-Young-Boys-A-Little-Too-Much.
"Ignorance is not a miracle." However I have seen ignorance that borders on the miraculous.
Around 8:20, the video mentions transubstantiation of the eucharist into "the literal" body of Christ. This is a common misunderstanding, and one I held myself. Any priest should tell you that the eucharist does _not_ become literal flesh during transubstantiation, and will further tell you that it remains a wafer of bread _in its accident_ (philosophical, not common usage), while it is transubstantiated _in its essence_ (see Aristotle by way of Aquinas) into the "body of Christ" (see St. Paul). When these words are taken in their common meanings, it makes the whole matter seem quite absurd. When understood in the context of philosophy and theology, it's actually rather mundane
So why bitch about that here instead of publicly shaming those who perpetuate eucharistic miracle "evidence" like supposed DNA testing? These people include members of the Catholic church, mind you. Why whine at atheists for this?
"When understood in the context of philosophy and theology, it's actually rather mundane"
Unfalsifiable made-up shit is only useful for discussing other unfalsifiable made-up shit. Find someone who cares.
@@TheZooCrew it seems I already did
Nice mic. Are you high a top the Matt building?
I' m sure someone has died soon enough after a catholic mass that the sacramental bread was found at the autopsy. I' d like to be that coroner: "Well, there goes that transubstantiation claim..."
Can you play Catholic cards against Mormon cards? Or is that a totally different game?
Vatican (and Mecca, for that matter) shouldn't even be a thing in a religion that supposedly preaches simplicity, kindness, generosity, but its holiest place is dripping in money and greed. So much double standard.
My bf (of 2 years recently) recently devoted himself to his catholic faith. He's wearing a brown scapular constantly, prays every night, and decided to be celibate on his own. We have been in this limbo stage for this past month, not quite together, not ready to break up. I don't think that he fully understands what his faith means for our relationship. If he is serious about this, we can never get married; I am not baptized and to get permission from the church to marry, I have to promise to allow our future children to be raised catholic. I don't even know if I want children but I definitely know that they will not be raised religious. My bf wants children though. He has to seriously think about what he wants and whether I am one of those things.
Besides all of that, catholicism is freaking weird. They worship Mary and various saints even though the 10 commandments clearly states that they shouldn't. They eat and drink the literal / spiritual flesh and blood of a dead Jewish man. You have to go to classes if you want to get married. Fucking weird.
I am Alive. That is an absolute miracle.
I've read several catholic books recommended by catholic friends. One on Eucharistic miracles, it was just a book of claims.
Iiit's... Datt Millahunty! Yay! 😉 Good afternoon Matt 😺
If a Eucharistic miracle would be true, couldn't we use the DNA to disprove the virgin birth and incarnation and end Christianity?
On the eucharist issue: The former practice (and doctrine) dictated that the "transformation" occurred during the ceremony the priests performed before passing out even the first wafer. We had to kneel at the altar and, in turn, the priest would say to each parishioner "the body of christ" whereupon we nodded in assent to get the delivery.
Thank you Matt for talking about Catholicism. I left the church 9 years ago and I still struggle to get rid of the slight reverence that I have for some of the beliefs that the church espouses. Hearing your thoughts on those beliefs is helping me break away from those thought processes.
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the One True Faith!
@@louisbarrow4671 no it’s not. There isn’t any theistic belief that it s true as far as I’m concerned.
@@kaislier
You will be judged one day!!
I can’t wait!
@@kaislier nice one! :D
I grew up in a Catholic home, but not particularly religious, in the Netherlands. It seems to me that Catholicism in the US is quite a bit different from that in Europe (as most things, really). While Catholicism here does have all of the rituals, it all seems more symbolic than anything else.
I think Catholicism may differ from parish to parish. Heck, iT may also differ from age group to age group. I went to a Catholic school and there was a different religious mentality in the class one year ahead of my class than in my class. I think my age group had better jocks though. I was into sports, but I wasn't a good jock, which made a social inferior of course.
In our country religion is looked as a private matter. No large religious signs. No news saying we're praying for them ever. No religious nuts in the streets on soap boxes. None of what I constantly see in America.
Oh and no entire neighborhoods going to church on Sundays, actually none really. There must be some who go to church, but it's definitely not commonly seen in any locality.
There is a vast difference with America to anywhere else, except maybe countries where religion is still in the laws.
@@kimsland999 Actually I think how religion is dealt out is all over the place here, based on size of the town or city, and what section of the country you are in. People do like posting signs about stuff however, certainly including religion, but the most common one around me is the one saying science is real, etc etc etc.
@@andrewfrankovic6821 The reason why religion is not big in Australia I think is due to the vast and varied multiculturalism.
Obviously all employment is under equal opportunity. So therefore we have different religious backgrounds in all manner of employment. But obviously religious beliefs here are way under 25%. I think it's 17% last I looked.
Anyway so could you imagine a devoted Muslim as a news Host (No issue there) saying Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them, during a news report! There would be an uproar of c walls to the news station. Thus no Christainty of they are in our prayers either.
A hypothetical situation could be:
Muslim reporter: May Allah give them paradise.
And the other Host says: they were Christain!
And the Muslim says: Well they are my brothers so peace on them too (I note this is against the Qur'an of place terror into unbelievers though)
Then the Christain says: But he was gay
And the Muslim responds: did he seek help?
And the Christain says he was married!
And then they both say: Well clearly he's in Hell.
That doesn't happen.
Thus no religious praying or anything on the news reports ever.
I think "cultural Catholicism" is more of a thing in Europe
Matt, I'd like to suggest an idea for a unique debate/public discourse. I think you should consider a debate with a Protestant-turned Catholic, and I would recommend that you debate someone from Called to Communion. It's a website and community of authors who are converts to Catholicism from the Reformed /confessional Protestant tradition.
They specialize in engaging what we might very loosely call, 'Protestant skepticism'. The purpose is reconciliation between Protestants and Catholics and the removal of misunderstandings.
As a Southern Baptist turned atheist, you have a particular perspective from which you view Catholicism. And while atheism is the primary angle from which you view it, you may (in jest) be called a Protestant atheist. I think you'd have a unique experience with someone from Called to Communion, moreso than with a cradle Catholic or convert from a non-confessional Protestant denomination.
Take a look:
www.calledtocommunion.com/about/authors/
The topic of debate could reflect
a blend of atheist-Protestant skepticism:
E.g.
- Does the Catholic Church have a unique prerogative to interpret Scripture?
As a former Irish Catholic, I can't believe what I took at face value. I wasn't brought up a strict Catholic, my father's mother had married a protestant. My sister married and a man who is church of Ireland. I have friends who are the same. My father worked in shop with people in of various religion faiths so I consider myself to be open minded which helped me explore my faith which convinced me I was a closet atheist.
Did you look up the Eucharist miracle evidence yet like Matt mentions in this video?
Lucky you! The only thing you missed was a lot of gospel based puerile bullshit, with heavy emphasis on biblical fairy tales.
I went to parochial school for 12 years; it was pure HELL and repression.
Fun fact: I got into trouble in first grade for blowing out votive candles!! 😆
With Catholics venerating nearly everything that isn't nailed down (and one guy who _was_ ), I always wondered why the artist behind the Shroud of Turin placed Jesus's hands directly over his privates? One would assume the Holy Phallus would be of some importance.
It was very important. That is why they had The Church of the Holy Foreskin. Think about it - that is the only part of Jesus' body left behind when he ascended into heaven. Im not joking. Utter madness.
@@lizzieh5284 hahaha, I had no idea, but I don't doubt it either. I need to look that up when I have a moment.
The biggest takeaways for me from this are:
1/ Notwithstanding the numbers of participants who have simply not thought it through in any depth - Roman Catholicism represents the biggest chunk of Christians in the world, and therefore can be reasonably taken to be the 'mainstream' version of Christianity.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am applying the most 'generous' definition of the religion here, i.e. the sum of all organisations which say that they are Christian.
Given the above, the material which Matt was sent on this video - which is at best ephemera and at worst a collection of culty/ wacky claims to special rights of 'access' to the supernatural realm - IS now the mainstream expression of the faith.
Q. So what must be going on in the minds of those who belong to the outer fringes??!!
2/ The RC church has a history of making the most astounding announcements (in this case, eating Jesus) without bothering to explain their real-world consequences/ implications. It's a 'Have my cake and eat it' approach, where any loose ends are supposedly tied-up by referring to them as part of the 'Mystery'.
Here's what happens:
(a) Mystery (properly used) is anything which remains beyond the grasp of humans to comprehend, but which, as it forms part of our lived experience anyway, is a valid subject of further investigation and discovery;
(b) Once something has been discovered about it, however, then it can be subjected to ordinary, common-sensical scrutiny, to check that it is (internally & externally) consistent with everything else we know;
(c) Scrutiny which may be applied to the consecrated bread in this case is - If there was a point at which it became Jesus, when does it stop being Jesus? If you wish to say that it never stops being Jesus, then there must be bits of him in our sewerage systems. Such a question cannot now be batted away as 'Mystery', since it never occurred to anyone before the new claim - If we allow it to be batted away, then any half-baked claim would pass muster.
I would challenge those figures of how many Catholics there are. The Catholic Church's figures show how many are baptised catholics. If you are baptised a catholic you are always on their books even when you have left the Church. To be taken off their books you have to go through a fornal procedure. I personally dont know anyone who has done that so the Church's figures are skewed.
@@lizzieh5284 Yes, agreed - But everyone does that, so it balances out.