I asked visiting Missionaries why they rejected paedobaptistm (Infant Baptism). They said that it wasn't God's will for someone to be baptized who is unable to consent to Baptism. I asked how they squared that with Baptism for the Dead. "That's a really good question" they said. And then changed the subject.
Spirits still have agency on the other side, but that begs the question, why not baptize up there too? Why is it stuck on Earth? And what if you die only to find out they rejected what you did anyway?
Thank you for taking the time to go into so much depth on all these doctrinal topics. It's helping me remember events through my childhood that I've blocked out and now I'm able to do the healing in a healthy way. Thanks!
@@markkrispin6944 Do they ever stop and think about this logically?... Imagine being dead and floating around in some sort of spirit-limbo-world, patiently waiting for up to hundreds of years for someone to baptize them so that they can FINALLY proceed with their after-life. How silly does this sound? If I were one of these people, I'd be like "Just send me to Outer Darkness already. This constant waiting is hell all in itself!!!"
This is one area of Mormon belief I am having a hard time with. Two years ago I started doing genealogy. I mostly use Ancestry but I have used Family Search and have been to the closest church family center. In December while looking at my family members I saw a button on my great grandfather that read : Temple Work. I become very upset because I wasn't sure if this had been done on my great grandfather. I couldn't get a straight answer from the 2 Mormon friends I had. I tried to explain that my great grandfather was the son of a Greek priest and was baptized in the Greek Church. My great grandfather actually started a Greek Church when he came to the US. He was buried in the Greek Orthodox tradition. I was upset because I felt like they were saying his religion was not good enough. I know this would not be something my great grandfather would want. If Mormons want their religion to be respected I think they need to do the same for other religions and traditions. I have no problem with my Mormon friends but when my direct ancestors might have temple work done on them it becomes an issue. I'm not even Greek Orthodox but feel strongly my great grandfather wouldn't want to be rebaptized.
I'm very sorry, but that's exactly what it is. The Mormon church feels the need to "fix" everyone's baptisms and marriages and it's terrible but also a meaningless ceremony.
I think the most frustrating part is the amount of lives who have dedicated to a lie. It goes back generations. To think all the people who was duped to be pioneers to risking their lives and dying of starvation.
The worst possible experience ever? To be baptised for dead people with german names by a child predator. Because that is a thing that I know happened to more than the just me. Sometimes the truth is painful. Or it's gross.
Baptism for the dead Bringing up Luke 16:10-31 is a poor example of trying to explain away baptism for the dead. It did nothing for me in fact it confused me even more. No one is coming back to life here on earth unless Jesus Christ makes it so like He did with his friend, Lazarus. Using Hebrews 9:27 has nothing to do with baptism for the dead because 1 Peter 3, 1 Peter 4 and Ephesians 4 tells us Jesus Christ descended to spirit prison to evangelized for those who are dead. When people die, their spirits either go to spirit prison (1 Peter 3:18-19 & 1 Peter 4:6) or they go to paradise (Luke 23:43). Nobody is judged immediately after death; that is an assumption most Christians make because of Hebrews 9:27. Spirit prison and paradise is where I believe our spirits reside until Judgement Day. Spirit Paradise is not heaven because our spirits must be judged on Judgement Day. Once our spirits are residing in spirit paradise or spirit prison, can they be ministered to by Jesus Christ? In 1 Peter 3:19 writes, “By which also he (Jesus Christ) went and preached unto the spirits in prison;” So the answer is yes, our spirits can be ministered to. Even Jesus Christ said to the thief on the cross in Luke 23:43 “Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” What is going on here?!? Jesus Christ was not finished evangelizing including the spirits who left their earthly mortal bodies. The big question you need to ask yourselves; why did Jesus Christ go visit the spirits in prison right after he died on the cross? I can see the spirits in spirit prison speaking to Jesus Christ, “Why are you here? We are dead and we sinned. We can’t repent because we are dead.” But Jesus would answer back and say, “That’s why I’m here; I’m here to minister unto you to see if you’ll repent and follow me. You’ve been down here for a long time thinking of the mistakes you made in life. Now will you repent?” Read 1 Peter 4:6 which writes, "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body but live according to God in regard to the spirit." Can our spirits repent after we are dead? It sure seems that way in this scriptural verse, because why would Jesus Christ go to spirit prison and preach unto those who are captive? Remember what Ephesians 4:7 wrote, “7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.” The key words to focus on is “every one”. Does that include the spirits in prison and paradise? Assuming that grace is only given to those living in mortal bodies might be a grave mistake. Don’t argue with me; argue with the Bible because I didn’t write it. Did Jesus Christ remove some of the spirits in prison? Sure, He did well at least those who repented. Ephesians 4:8-10 writes, “8 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)” The key words here is “he took many captives…”. Why would Jesus Christ do this awesome act of removing people out of spirit prison if they repented? Ephesians 4:13 writes, “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” There’s that word “all”! It stands for the living and the dead. If I were you, I would read Ephesians 4:7-13 to get the full picture. Now the spirits who repented have a problem for they are not baptized as Jesus Christ was, and a spirit cannot be baptized because they don’t have a mortal body anymore. They are spirits! The spirits have repented of their ways, were taken out of spirit prison by Jesus, and they now believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. The spirits cannot go to heaven unless they are baptized. Read John 3:5 ““Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.” Baptism is required to enter heaven!!! So, how are dead people’s spirits going to be baptized? Without baptism, we cannot be resurrected like Jesus Christ was and receive a glorified body. So now read the scripture in 1 Corinthians 15 in a different light. Do you see what the Apostle Paul is writing about? Do you have ancestors who were not baptized? Wouldn’t you like for them to be baptized? I would. I love them. Then how can baptism be performed for the dead? Before answering this question, one must understand how Christ died for our sins. He “proxy” for all of us; “proxy” is biblical. His proxy took away our sins so that we can be resurrected like Him. We are saved by Him. We can “proxy” too. Apostle Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15 that we can “proxy” for our ancestors; we can perform baptism for our ancestors! Isn’t that awesome!!! Then our dead ancestors can accept the “proxy” baptism just like all of us accepted Jesus Christ “proxy” sacrifice for our sins. He died on the cross for all of us. I would study thoroughly all the bible verses I wrote down in this article. Pray and ask God and Jesus if you need to do this. So, as a Christian, will you throw out an emergency life preserver to your ancestors who repented as spirits by doing proxy baptism for them? Or do you feel there is no need for a baptism life preserver for the dead ancestors?
Three Big Historical Challenges to the Book of Mormon The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon (henceforth abbreviated as BoM) is an ancient native-American record written on golden plates. Smith claimed that he was guided to these tablets buried on a hill and that God assisted him in translating them from Reformed Egyptian into English. However, the historical and textual accuracy of Smith’s work have become increasingly doubtful. This is the case despite Smith’s declaring the BoM to be “the most correct of any book on earth and the keystone of our religion” (1). Today, historians and scholars reject Smith’s account for the three reasons we will briefly note below (2). The Problem of Text and Language Smith claimed he translated the golden tablets he found into English from a language known as Reformed Egyptian. On the contrary, historians argue that there is no evidence of a language known as Reformed Egyptian and that literary devices (language, phrases, and names) in the BoM provide strong evidence that its text is inauthentic (3). Further, according to the Mormon Church, the BoM claims that some ancestors of Native Americans came from the ancient Near East and specifically from the Jerusalem area. However, linguistic scholars have discovered no Native American language, whether spoken by the Maya or Aztecs, to be relatable to languages from the ancient Near East (4). Textual critics do not view the BoM as a particularly impressive or unique work of writing. Professor Grant Hardy, a specialist in history, language, and literature, says that “If the primary purpose of the Book of Mormon were to function as a sign-as tangible evidence that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God-that mission could have been accomplished much more concisely” (5). Further, the fact that the book has received significant revisions, especially in its grammar, is a challenge to its divine origin and its revered status as being “the most correct of any book on earth” (6). The Problem of Archaeological Corroboration. The BoM proposes that real people existed in specific times and places in history. It attempts to show itself to be a historical record of God’s revelation to humankind. The book claims to be an “account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang” (7). By making this claim, the BoM opens itself to being tested. One of its claims is that the world the book’s occupants lived in was an hourglass-shaped landmass. This land consisted of a ”land southward” surrounded by water except for a “narrow neck” of land connecting it to a “land northward” (Alma 22:32), a necessary detail to know if a researcher intends to engage in archaeological work (8). Despite some theories concerning the true location of this area, much remains uncertain. The traditional view is that this land includes nearly all of North and South America. According to Smith, a party led by the prophet Lehi from Jerusalem arrived in the New World on the coast of Chile. There was also a battle between the Nephites and Lamanites that purportedly took place in Palmyra, New York some 6000 miles away from Lehi’s location of arrival (9). The Nephites and the Lamanites are supposdely descended from a group of Israelites who, under Lehi’s guide, migrated to the Americas around 600 BCE. The Lamanites are also believed by Mormons to be the ancestors of the indigenous peoples found in North, South, and Central America (10). The traditional view is that the landmass included nearly all of North and South America. These lands constitute the two bulges of the hourglass that are connected by the “narrow neck.” The narrow neck being Central America. However, two difficulties confront this traditional view. One difficulty is that according to the BoM, the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations were located somewhere in Central America (the ”narrow neck” of land) and that they did battle at Hill Cumorah (Mormon 6:1-6). Hill Cumorah is thought to be located in New York state, well over a several thousand of miles away from the respective Nephite and Lamanite bases. It seems unrealistic that these armies traveled such an extraordinary distance to engage in battle. The BoM also proposes that native populations of North and South America are the descendants of small immigrant populations including the Jaredites (arriving at some point between 3000 and 2000 BCE, and who later became extinct themselves), Nephites, and Mulekites. However, this is rejected by historians. For example, archaeological research provides evidence that the lands were populated well before the BoM says these peoples arrived. Archaeology has provided evidence of stone tools showing natives existed in the Americas as far back as 13500 years ago. Further, around 10 000 BCE east Asians migrated across the Bering Strait. These migrants are the actual ancestors of the American Indians (11). The DNA evidence supporting this ancestry is strong. Native Americans possess DNA markers similar to the DNA of ancient people from the Altar Mountains in central Asia. No evidence, archaeological or genetic, exists in support of the claims made by the BoM. This had led historians not to view its contents as a work of ancient American history (12). Scholar Michael Coe says that, “as far as I know there is not one professionally trained archaeologist, who is not a Mormon, who sees any scientific justification for believing the foregoing to be true, and I would like to state that there are quite a few Mormon archaeologists who join this group” (13). The Problem of Anachronisms The BoM places a number of historical artifacts and cultures in the wrong era. This includes portraying a Nephite civilization with a metal industry (metal swords, breastplates, and coinage) in Mesoamerica despite the fact that the area is known not to have possessed such industry at the time (14). The BoM presents the Nephites as a people who produced wheat, barley, flax (linen), grapes, and olives, none of which existed in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica (pre-Columbian referring to the Americas before Christoper Columbus’s 1492 voyages to the area). The Nephites also supposedly owned Old World domesticated animals (Old World referring to parts of the world including Africa, Asia, and Europe) such as asses, cows, goats, sheep, horses, oxen, swine, and elephants that did not exist in America at the time (16)
Boils down to this. If Joseph Smith talked to God and was called to be Gods apostle and start His church, then what ever you say mean nothing. You are betting he didn't.
It's not just ludicrous. It shows what kind of God LDS believe Heavenly Father to be. No one else's baptism is the "right" kind. LDS have to "fix" it for everyone. It's straight up rude. And for whatever reason God won't accept anyone else's baptisms or marriages unless the Mormons "fix" them.
The Corinthian church at the time was based in a cosmopolitan city, that means there were people of different beliefs, culture, and traditions. So the Apostle didn't even go into detail about baptism for the dead because he wanted to teach the Corinthian church to believe in the gift and power of the Resurrection, because Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and we as believers, as Christians are going to resurrect.
@@MrTmolefe Baptism for the dead is Eternal, why? Life continues, life is, Eternal. Also, resurrection is true and real. How can you not, understanding the Scriptures? Wow!
@@MrTmolefe You're wrong about that, Baptism for the dead is Eternal, why? Because resurrection is true and real, and so as life continues, life is eternal. How can you can't understand why people asked Apostle PAUL, why Apostle PAUL and THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, kept doing Baptism for the dead? Because these people don't believe, in the resurrection of the dead. Apostle PAUL told them, the reason why Baptism for the dead is mandatory and eternal, concerning the dead, because, resurrection is true and real, and for those who died, without being Baptized.
I have no issue with someone leaving the church. You have your free will and choice. However I question most people profiting from bashing others beliefs or not being confident enough in your own beliefs that you try to get people to follow you. So how do you square people that come into the church later on in life and stay there their whole lives. Your presenting as if kids are indoctrinated. how are adults indoctrinated and how are you affectingTheir free will and choice. You’re talking out both sides of your mouth , on one hand, you say the church teaches good principles and good ways to live and care for others. And on the other hand, you’re claiming you’ve been manipulated to believe a certain way like a cult would. You can’t have it both ways unless you can prove that people, don’t wanna be a part of the church can’t leave. And you know that is not the case to your obvious own experiences.
John doing this for riches & honor; Left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, due to rebellious, lack knowledge, & refused to repent from his personal sins. He can't leave the CHURCH alone.
Thank you for educating me! You 2 are so cute together, and from what I’m learning is you’re right… mormons are constantly ‘convincing’ themselves all the day long. Sad
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
I asked visiting Missionaries why they rejected paedobaptistm (Infant Baptism). They said that it wasn't God's will for someone to be baptized who is unable to consent to Baptism. I asked how they squared that with Baptism for the Dead.
"That's a really good question" they said. And then changed the subject.
Spirits still have agency on the other side, but that begs the question, why not baptize up there too? Why is it stuck on Earth? And what if you die only to find out they rejected what you did anyway?
Both are not biblical
@@Warriorcats64 there is no water other than 🌍
Weird! O, what people are able to believe! It’s helpful to always diligently check and adequately question everything.
Thank you for taking the time to go into so much depth on all these doctrinal topics. It's helping me remember events through my childhood that I've blocked out and now I'm able to do the healing in a healthy way. Thanks!
We could only do it once,as a child,and had to get a interview,
I love these two! Very wise to exit out of the Mormon cult!
There is definitely a weird obsession with the dead in Mormonism. Can't they do ANYTHING for themselves in the after-life?
@@mylesmarkson1686 nope
@@markkrispin6944 Do they ever stop and think about this logically?... Imagine being dead and floating around in some sort of spirit-limbo-world, patiently waiting for up to hundreds of years for someone to baptize them so that they can FINALLY proceed with their after-life. How silly does this sound? If I were one of these people, I'd be like "Just send me to Outer Darkness already. This constant waiting is hell all in itself!!!"
@@mylesmarkson1686 Agreed
This is one area of Mormon belief I am having a hard time with. Two years ago I started doing genealogy. I mostly use Ancestry but I have used Family Search and have been to the closest church family center. In December while looking at my family members I saw a button on my great grandfather that read : Temple Work. I become very upset because I wasn't sure if this had been done on my great grandfather. I couldn't get a straight answer from the 2 Mormon friends I had. I tried to explain that my great grandfather was the son of a Greek priest and was baptized in the Greek Church. My great grandfather actually started a Greek Church when he came to the US. He was buried in the Greek Orthodox tradition. I was upset because I felt like they were saying his religion was not good enough. I know this would not be something my great grandfather would want. If Mormons want their religion to be respected I think they need to do the same for other religions and traditions. I have no problem with my Mormon friends but when my direct ancestors might have temple work done on them it becomes an issue. I'm not even Greek Orthodox but feel strongly my great grandfather wouldn't want to be rebaptized.
I'm very sorry, but that's exactly what it is. The Mormon church feels the need to "fix" everyone's baptisms and marriages and it's terrible but also a meaningless ceremony.
My father’s second wife who was a Mormon convert did baptism for the dead on my mother who had died 18 years earlier. I was offended and outraged.
@@signespencer6887 I'm so sorry! It's sad that they can't understand why the outrage. Hugs!
Im A nevermore but have family who are staunch lds followers. So I appreciate this type of yt video.
I think the most frustrating part is the amount of lives who have dedicated to a lie. It goes back generations. To think all the people who was duped to be pioneers to risking their lives and dying of starvation.
Hey there, really enjoyed the video! i would love to get these as audio only, are you on audea?
Nice Thrive hat.
The worst possible experience ever? To be baptised for dead people with german names by a child predator.
Because that is a thing that I know happened to more than the just me. Sometimes the truth is painful. Or it's gross.
Baptism for the dead
Bringing up Luke 16:10-31 is a poor example of trying to explain away baptism for the dead. It did nothing for me in fact it confused me even more. No one is coming back to life here on earth unless Jesus Christ makes it so like He did with his friend, Lazarus. Using Hebrews 9:27 has nothing to do with baptism for the dead because 1 Peter 3, 1 Peter 4 and Ephesians 4 tells us Jesus Christ descended to spirit prison to evangelized for those who are dead.
When people die, their spirits either go to spirit prison (1 Peter 3:18-19 & 1 Peter 4:6) or they go to paradise (Luke 23:43). Nobody is judged immediately after death; that is an assumption most Christians make because of Hebrews 9:27. Spirit prison and paradise is where I believe our spirits reside until Judgement Day. Spirit Paradise is not heaven because our spirits must be judged on Judgement Day. Once our spirits are residing in spirit paradise or spirit prison, can they be ministered to by Jesus Christ? In 1 Peter 3:19 writes, “By which also he (Jesus Christ) went and preached unto the spirits in prison;” So the answer is yes, our spirits can be ministered to. Even Jesus Christ said to the thief on the cross in Luke 23:43 “Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” What is going on here?!? Jesus Christ was not finished evangelizing including the spirits who left their earthly mortal bodies.
The big question you need to ask yourselves; why did Jesus Christ go visit the spirits in prison right after he died on the cross? I can see the spirits in spirit prison speaking to Jesus Christ, “Why are you here? We are dead and we sinned. We can’t repent because we are dead.” But Jesus would answer back and say, “That’s why I’m here; I’m here to minister unto you to see if you’ll repent and follow me. You’ve been down here for a long time thinking of the mistakes you made in life. Now will you repent?” Read 1 Peter 4:6 which writes, "For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body but live according to God in regard to the spirit." Can our spirits repent after we are dead? It sure seems that way in this scriptural verse, because why would Jesus Christ go to spirit prison and preach unto those who are captive? Remember what Ephesians 4:7 wrote, “7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.” The key words to focus on is “every one”. Does that include the spirits in prison and paradise? Assuming that grace is only given to those living in mortal bodies might be a grave mistake. Don’t argue with me; argue with the Bible because I didn’t write it.
Did Jesus Christ remove some of the spirits in prison? Sure, He did well at least those who repented. Ephesians 4:8-10 writes, “8 This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)” The key words here is “he took many captives…”. Why would Jesus Christ do this awesome act of removing people out of spirit prison if they repented? Ephesians 4:13 writes, “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” There’s that word “all”! It stands for the living and the dead. If I were you, I would read Ephesians 4:7-13 to get the full picture.
Now the spirits who repented have a problem for they are not baptized as Jesus Christ was, and a spirit cannot be baptized because they don’t have a mortal body anymore. They are spirits! The spirits have repented of their ways, were taken out of spirit prison by Jesus, and they now believe in Jesus Christ as their savior. The spirits cannot go to heaven unless they are baptized. Read John 3:5 ““Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.” Baptism is required to enter heaven!!! So, how are dead people’s spirits going to be baptized? Without baptism, we cannot be resurrected like Jesus Christ was and receive a glorified body. So now read the scripture in 1 Corinthians 15 in a different light. Do you see what the Apostle Paul is writing about? Do you have ancestors who were not baptized? Wouldn’t you like for them to be baptized? I would. I love them. Then how can baptism be performed for the dead? Before answering this question, one must understand how Christ died for our sins. He “proxy” for all of us; “proxy” is biblical. His proxy took away our sins so that we can be resurrected like Him. We are saved by Him. We can “proxy” too. Apostle Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15 that we can “proxy” for our ancestors; we can perform baptism for our ancestors! Isn’t that awesome!!! Then our dead ancestors can accept the “proxy” baptism just like all of us accepted Jesus Christ “proxy” sacrifice for our sins. He died on the cross for all of us.
I would study thoroughly all the bible verses I wrote down in this article. Pray and ask God and Jesus if you need to do this. So, as a Christian, will you throw out an emergency life preserver to your ancestors who repented as spirits by doing proxy baptism for them? Or do you feel there is no need for a baptism life preserver for the dead ancestors?
Baptism is a choice when you're alive, that's a lot of rituals to choose from. Past that they're collecting a body count to a 501(c)(3).
Three Big Historical Challenges to the Book of Mormon
The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon (henceforth abbreviated as BoM) is an ancient native-American record written on golden plates. Smith claimed that he was guided to these tablets buried on a hill and that God assisted him in translating them from Reformed Egyptian into English. However, the historical and textual accuracy of Smith’s work have become increasingly doubtful. This is the case despite Smith’s declaring the BoM to be “the most correct of any book on earth and the keystone of our religion” (1). Today, historians and scholars reject Smith’s account for the three reasons we will briefly note below (2).
The Problem of Text and Language
Smith claimed he translated the golden tablets he found into English from a language known as Reformed Egyptian. On the contrary, historians argue that there is no evidence of a language known as Reformed Egyptian and that literary devices (language, phrases, and names) in the BoM provide strong evidence that its text is inauthentic (3). Further, according to the Mormon Church, the BoM claims that some ancestors of Native Americans came from the ancient Near East and specifically from the Jerusalem area. However, linguistic scholars have discovered no Native American language, whether spoken by the Maya or Aztecs, to be relatable to languages from the ancient Near East (4).
Textual critics do not view the BoM as a particularly impressive or unique work of writing. Professor Grant Hardy, a specialist in history, language, and literature, says that “If the primary purpose of the Book of Mormon were to function as a sign-as tangible evidence that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God-that mission could have been accomplished much more concisely” (5). Further, the fact that the book has received significant revisions, especially in its grammar, is a challenge to its divine origin and its revered status as being “the most correct of any book on earth” (6).
The Problem of Archaeological Corroboration.
The BoM proposes that real people existed in specific times and places in history. It attempts to show itself to be a historical record of God’s revelation to humankind. The book claims to be an “account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang” (7). By making this claim, the BoM opens itself to being tested. One of its claims is that the world the book’s occupants lived in was an hourglass-shaped landmass. This land consisted of a ”land southward” surrounded by water except for a “narrow neck” of land connecting it to a “land northward” (Alma 22:32), a necessary detail to know if a researcher intends to engage in archaeological work (8). Despite some theories concerning the true location of this area, much remains uncertain.
The traditional view is that this land includes nearly all of North and South America. According to Smith, a party led by the prophet Lehi from Jerusalem arrived in the New World on the coast of Chile. There was also a battle between the Nephites and Lamanites that purportedly took place in Palmyra, New York some 6000 miles away from Lehi’s location of arrival (9). The Nephites and the Lamanites are supposdely descended from a group of Israelites who, under Lehi’s guide, migrated to the Americas around 600 BCE. The Lamanites are also believed by Mormons to be the ancestors of the indigenous peoples found in North, South, and Central America (10). The traditional view is that the landmass included nearly all of North and South America. These lands constitute the two bulges of the hourglass that are connected by the “narrow neck.” The narrow neck being Central America. However, two difficulties confront this traditional view.
One difficulty is that according to the BoM, the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations were located somewhere in Central America (the ”narrow neck” of land) and that they did battle at Hill Cumorah (Mormon 6:1-6). Hill Cumorah is thought to be located in New York state, well over a several thousand of miles away from the respective Nephite and Lamanite bases. It seems unrealistic that these armies traveled such an extraordinary distance to engage in battle.
The BoM also proposes that native populations of North and South America are the descendants of small immigrant populations including the Jaredites (arriving at some point between 3000 and 2000 BCE, and who later became extinct themselves), Nephites, and Mulekites. However, this is rejected by historians. For example, archaeological research provides evidence that the lands were populated well before the BoM says these peoples arrived. Archaeology has provided evidence of stone tools showing natives existed in the Americas as far back as 13500 years ago. Further, around 10 000 BCE east Asians migrated across the Bering Strait. These migrants are the actual ancestors of the American Indians (11). The DNA evidence supporting this ancestry is strong. Native Americans possess DNA markers similar to the DNA of ancient people from the Altar Mountains in central Asia.
No evidence, archaeological or genetic, exists in support of the claims made by the BoM. This had led historians not to view its contents as a work of ancient American history (12). Scholar Michael Coe says that, “as far as I know there is not one professionally trained archaeologist, who is not a Mormon, who sees any scientific justification for believing the foregoing to be true, and I would like to state that there are quite a few Mormon archaeologists who join this group” (13).
The Problem of Anachronisms
The BoM places a number of historical artifacts and cultures in the wrong era. This includes portraying a Nephite civilization with a metal industry (metal swords, breastplates, and coinage) in Mesoamerica despite the fact that the area is known not to have possessed such industry at the time (14). The BoM presents the Nephites as a people who produced wheat, barley, flax (linen), grapes, and olives, none of which existed in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica (pre-Columbian referring to the Americas before Christoper Columbus’s 1492 voyages to the area). The Nephites also supposedly owned Old World domesticated animals (Old World referring to parts of the world including Africa, Asia, and Europe) such as asses, cows, goats, sheep, horses, oxen, swine, and elephants that did not exist in America at the time (16)
The Spirit of JOHN, is like the Spirit of JUDAS, JUDAS betrayed JESUS. When some refused repent from personal sins, they make excuses.
Boils down to this. If Joseph Smith talked to God and was called to be Gods apostle and start His church, then what ever you say mean nothing. You are betting he didn't.
lol…. Are you selling solar, pest control or anti Mo mo?
No offense, but this practice is LUDICROUS!!! It's nowhere in the Holy Bible.
It's not just ludicrous. It shows what kind of God LDS believe Heavenly Father to be. No one else's baptism is the "right" kind. LDS have to "fix" it for everyone. It's straight up rude. And for whatever reason God won't accept anyone else's baptisms or marriages unless the Mormons "fix" them.
Some, asked Apostle PAUL, (why) (Baptism) (For) (The) (Dead?) why they asked? because (they) (don't) (believe) (in) (the) (Resurrection.)
The Corinthian church at the time was based in a cosmopolitan city, that means there were people of different beliefs, culture, and traditions.
So the Apostle didn't even go into detail about baptism for the dead because he wanted to teach the Corinthian church to believe in the gift and power of the Resurrection, because Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and we as believers, as Christians are going to resurrect.
@@MrTmolefe Baptism for the dead is Eternal, why? Life continues, life is, Eternal. Also, resurrection is true and real. How can you not, understanding the Scriptures? Wow!
@@VAATAUSILI4139 I do understand the Scriptures, for me though baptism for the dead is not biblical, that's all.
@@MrTmolefe You're wrong about that, Baptism for the dead is Eternal, why? Because resurrection is true and real, and so as life continues, life is eternal. How can you can't understand why people asked Apostle PAUL, why Apostle PAUL and THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, kept doing Baptism for the dead? Because these people don't believe, in the resurrection of the dead. Apostle PAUL told them, the reason why Baptism for the dead is mandatory and eternal, concerning the dead, because, resurrection is true and real, and for those who died, without being Baptized.
@@VAATAUSILI4139 That's your opinion, and I totally respect all you have said. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I have no issue with someone leaving the church. You have your free will and choice. However I question most people profiting from bashing others beliefs or not being confident enough in your own beliefs that you try to get people to follow you.
So how do you square people that come into the church later on in life and stay there their whole lives. Your presenting as if kids are indoctrinated. how are adults indoctrinated and how are you affectingTheir free will and choice. You’re talking out both sides of your mouth , on one hand, you say the church teaches good principles and good ways to live and care for others. And on the other hand, you’re claiming you’ve been manipulated to believe a certain way like a cult would. You can’t have it both ways unless you can prove that people, don’t wanna be a part of the church can’t leave. And you know that is not the case to your obvious own experiences.
John doing this for riches & honor; Left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, due to rebellious, lack knowledge, & refused to repent from his personal sins. He can't leave the CHURCH alone.
Thinking is outrageous right. 17:35
Thank you for educating me! You 2 are so cute together, and from what I’m learning is you’re right… mormons are constantly ‘convincing’ themselves all the day long. Sad