YESSS and when he said they get pleasure from simply changing the design to a different race. Like defeating some unseen demon and shaking the audience for ever liking the original character. He’s an amazing script writer
“Blaming yourself” is maybe better described as “taking responsibility.” The whole concept of taking responsibility has been on the down-trend over the course of my long long 25 years on this earth, but I remember being taught in school and at home that we all need to take responsibility if we’re ever going to grow as people and get better
Even IF people have a problem with the sexuality and or gender of characters to the point of not supporting it, that’s just life. You can’t yell at people to support something or else all you’ve done is bully them into a belief.
Plus, all that really shows is that what you're making is trying to reach the wrong audience. If you've got a good piece of media any bigots will be more than made up for by the reasonable people who like it because it's good. A work that fails does so because it sucks and nobody wants to see it, not because of bigotry and sexism.
Honestly, it’s kinda funny that Mindy just race-swapped Velma to be progressive, but then wrote the character to be generally unlikeable (constantly being a dick to people who didn’t do anything wrong). Now I’m not gonna accuse Mindy of anything here, but doesn’t that seem a little problematic and hypocritical?
As someone who is currently seeing a therapist for blaming myself for everything that goes wrong in my life, I see value in what you're saying and that there are people who need to hear this message. However don't let the pendulum swing TOO far in that direction if you know what I mean. ;D
@@gregowen2022 too much blame on either side becomes destructive! Too much blame shifting and you just seem like a jerk unwilling to change! Too much self blame and you become overly depressed and feel like you can’t change, which may spiral into acting like that same jerk, or doubling down on feeling miserable! Either way, both extremes don’t do squat to help you or others! Just as no one likes getting mindlessly blamed for someone’s own faults, no one likes being around someone who constantly belittles themself and lamp-shades themself 10x over! (There are people who are willing to help, but ONLY IF you accept responsibility AND accept that help!) I sometimes feel super conscious about what others think, and I often care about others far more than myself. Thankfully, I’m getting much better, but it’s still a challenge. But unlike those examples that you and I mentioned, I’m aware of my faults, and am consciously trying to improve myself!
I agree with these thoughts 100%! The part of this video that helped me look at it from a different angle was the part about being able to enact change. If you blame yourself in the right way, you're not just digging on yourself, you're identifying why it's your fault and how to take that control to change things. I think that's a key part to not becoming just self-pitying. Source: I've been there.
The point about blaming yourself, first, is about agency, not culpability. It is the same thing for workplace safety. When I blamed myself for a workplace incident that resulted in a nasty fall, I did not blame myself to feel guilty, but to make sure that I paid more attention to what I was stepping on, in the future. By assuming the that the incident was the result of something that I did, instead of being a victim of circumstance, I summoned the agency to prevent it from happening, again.
1. How does being in therapy for blaming yourself for everything that goes wrong in your life lend credence to what you are saying? 2. What is the only common denominator in your life? You said it as if it is irrational to think you are in control of your own life. The therapy part should be you learning that blaming yourself for your own life is what should happen so you can take steps to fix your absolute idiotic decisions. Based on your commentary I can only assume you are trash.
Like do they really think that attacking people is going to bring them into the audience? Especially in She-Hulk's case, where they attacked quite a lot of the existing Marvel fanbase while trying to bring in an audience that doesn't really care about Marvel and/or people who absolutely need entertainment to pander to them in order to enjoy it. Why can't writers appreciate their existing fanbase or find a way to please existing fans while CAREFULLY urging potential fans in
@tomcoop9750 I hate that feminism has been reduced to this. We are fighting for the very definition of woman in Scotland. Women don't want power over men. We just want single sex spaces where it's required (shelters, sports, bathrooms). Now, the feminists who truly care about equality are called bigots.
As someone who admittedly is on Twitter much more than he should be, I see this sort of "blame the critic" mindset a *lot*. There's this one show with LGBTQ+ characters that I actually kinda like, but even I'm gonna admit it's not perfect. Yet when anyone says they don't like the show or critiques it for its honest shortcomings, not so much the creator of the show, but moreso the fandom will unleash hell's fury on those critics, calling them cishet like it's a slur and deeming them all homophobic, without seeing any flaws in the show itself. I'm LGBTQ myself, and even if I wasn't I consider myself an ally at the very least, but the hill they're choosing to die on isn't making them look good, and the fandom as a whole has a pretty bad reputation as being toxic because of these people. 🙄
Yes, Twitter fosters this kind of tribal mentality where your team is holy and righteous and any criticism whatsoever is attempted murder. I have tons of IPs I absolutely adore, and there are valid criticisms for all of them. I'm adult enough to accept those critiques and still love my thing.
Funny, just a few months ago I started to realize the problem with my life was me and I started improving in the areas I was lacking and my life is so much better now because of it. I also became more aware of other people and I started caring about them and more people started to like me and I was making friends.
People want to be around caring people. I'm so glad things are going well for you! It takes a lot to find your own weaknesses and work to improve them. Bravo
Responsibility and developing self empowerment. Understanding your consumer base .Developing a coherent strategy with your customers best interests at the forefront and demanding the same from your coworkers . Business must be earned . Even a humble store manager of a grocery store such as myself recognizes this fundamental truth. Outstanding content.
whiney children are really good at blaming the world for losing their iPad at school. even though they were at fault for bringing it to school in the first place.
I discovered your videos today by pure chance and i have to say that they are some of the best breakdowns on modern media i have ever seen, keep up the great work
I've said it before, but it will always be true. You arent entitled to other people's money. Your job as a creative is to make things people want to see. If they dont, then you have failed at your job. Thats all there is to it.
It has to be that shows like this exist for the sole purpose of getting people to hate watch. The worse it is, the more outrage it gets, and people watch to see what the controversy is about.
Left Twitter already. Best thing I have done in years. Also you should have some group chats with other YT folk like Critical Drinker. . .. . You guys could have a good chat. I like your breakdowns and appreciate an intelligent POV.
I really appreciate that! I would LOVE to chat with Drinker and some of those guys. I'll probably have to get a little bigger first. I did get an invite to chat with Despot of Antrim. We had a great talk and I like his breakdowns about this stuff as well. Very thorough with some great comedy bits
Yeah I'm tried of them blaming us for their failures we told you we didn't like it we told you we didn't want it people are annoyed with these changes and performative diversity inclusion and fake representation and get a double down on it and then hit confused when it fails and then try to blame everybody else but themselves it's just tiring
I agree with the concept at the beginning, however I'll be first to admit that it can go too far and cause greater problems in the future. It's probably best to phrase it more like "understand that which is truly your fault." Always ask this first: "Was it my fault" and then review the situation objectively. I've found that it leads to "Yes" somewhere between 70-100% of the time. It's especially important to understand that ego can blind people more than a dirt slap. Ego can make you think that you didn't do anything wrong or that it's something else that made you do it. In truth, how we respond it what makes it our doing. Though I agree with blaming yourself can bring positive reinforcement if applied correctly and cautiously. In this, it makes you come to understand how much power you have in your life and that you can use that power once you figure it out. This is sorta why I agree with the idea of Original Sin, which states that all humans are born evil. While I think humans aren't evil, I believe we DO have the capacity to commit truly evil things. Yet, with that same power, we are equally capable of committing truly great acts of good. What one must understand when ut comes to the differentiation is that one needs self-reflection and self-realization so that one can understand where they failed and how best to correct it in the future.
Even if your failure is the fault of others/the world are you going to give up and cry about it or get up and try again/something else. The later is definitely more empowering and sets you up for future success
Audience: we don't like what you're making, especially since it seems to be insulting us. Show runners: we are failing and it's your fault. Audience: well make stuff we actually like.
@@gregowen2022 Season 2 is going to be a thing to behold I am sure. I'll just do the Whitecloaks Re-Watch and get drunk with them instead 🤣 Were you a big fan of the books, or just an independent observer watching a train wreck?
Love the books, which made the wreck worse. What's crazy is that they had very interesting gender dynamics, which I thought would be explored in the show. Nope. Drinking while watching might be the only way to get through
My "maybe it's a you problem" is generally that I don't go along with the woke hate mob--been kicked out of more rpg groups that way than I care to recall. Was literally TOLD by one of those wokesters that it was a me problem too.
If we're all homophobic for not wanting to see Bros, how come Brokeback Mountain was such a success? We all new Velma was gay but you don't need to see anything on a kids cartoon?
@@gregowen2022 just noticed I spelt knew "new". Dumbarse with wine in hand! Only discovered your channel today but like it and have subscribed, don't go weird yank on me though because you seem sensible! 🏴
@@gregowen2022 I've done worse than a minus one letter mistake when I was younger,(NEVER keep an ex girlfriend's number unless you have children!)🏴
Even as a gay person with a bias towards stories centering on a male couple, the trailer for Bros was so bland that it legitimately put me off the film. Just because there are less good gay romance movies doesn’t mean I’m going to lower my standards when one does happen, because that’s how we end up with pandering films like Bros in the first place.
This seems to be a cultural trend outside the arts as well. In politics blaming voters for not showing up has become an easy out for politicians and failed consultants. There is no introspection.
How can anyone look at the original scooby doo and think that velma is an improvement? In my opinion, mystery incorporated was a better mature oriented version of scooby doo.
@@Selrisitai never actually had barrels of ice cream tho they sound pretty good (no, im not gonna do what you just said i mean the unproductive self loathing, i will take control)
I'll give Eickner(sp?) one thing, he tried to do something new and put his beliefs into it instead of just taking an existing IP and swapping characters out...like literally everyone else does
There's a way to fix things when it's someone else's fault, even numerous other people's faults. What do you think the line "the floggings will continue until morale improves!" Is addressing?
I sort of agree with most of your points. I do believe that, if your show/movie didn't succeed, isn't the fault of the audience, but it can be your own fault and the marketing fault. Sometimes they made a amazing story but the marketing was crap. And sometimes, big companies don't market a lgbtq story properly, due to homophobia Is never the audience fault your story failed, it was either you or a bad marketing campaign. I also thing, as someone that is part of the LGBTQ community, that is not good enough just put a gay plot in your show and think it will carry by itself. Many shows have a very dedicated fanbase that leach on lgbtq characters and make this aspect the only thing worth paying attention to, but it won't be enough to hold on it's own. This is why most shows with representation feels like they are bad written sometimes, because many think this is enough to hold on a audience for a long time, and hide writing mistakes But there are cases when a percentage of the audience boycott a show or movie because it has elements that don't fit with the cis hetero norm, and the backlash makes companies be scared and pull out. Even thought it is not a majority, is a loud minority and is enough for already homophobic and misogynistic owners to hide and butcher the marketing of said show and movie. Luckily we are going through a direction where representation has more nuance and doesn't need to be loud to be accepted
I think you're right about the marketing. Look at this Strange World movie that just came out. I don't think anyone even knew it was coming! What's odd, though, is that it's from Disney and they generally don't shy away like another studio might. Hopefully soon writers catch on that being gay or black or whatever isn't an entire personality and doesn't sell a character or story. It's been done. I was just watching some Brooklyn 99 last night. Captain Holt is an excellent character
@@gregowen2022 if you think about it, is not odd. Following the creators of the owl House and Gravity falls, they speak openly how the company don't want to make stories with LGBTQ characters. They constantly want a different thing, or a different character, but once they see they can't win, they "accept it" but pull out the marketing or the sloth time in the channel. The Owl House isn't even in Disney Plus, as far as I know, and every time they put a show or a movie on China, they heavily edit it too. Disney have a history of being low key homophobic, and then trying to look like a ally. Strange world is the same. Creators can easily make a Raymond Holt, or a Rosa Diaz and handle with the same level of sudtlety and care. The reason they don't do it, is because the companies, specially on content market to all ages, constantly try to censor the creators, and I believe this is why they are always loud, and why the characters have to show they are from the LGBTQ community. Once they see they can speak, they yell to be heard. If companies like Disney, weren't so spineless, and didn't cave to the minority of people saying "this shouldn't be in a kids show/movie" and just let creators do what they wanted, the creators wouldn't make being LGBTQ a big deal. We would have more Raymond Holts and Rosa Dias on TV, and less of "the Owl House Luz coming out segment" I guarantee this, because I am a artist myself, and I am sure the majority don't want to make a race or a sexuality the only thing that holds the character in place. Now, many artists do this, but is for a lack of writing knowledge than anything else. Some creators do stories where the race and sexuality is a the only focus, also because is also a marketing move. Lgbtq centered stories sell, so are stories talking about a culture and a race. Those types are midia are fine in moderation, and also if is treated with respect. A great example of this is the show Q-force, when BEING LGBTQ is the center of the story. Many people saw issue on it, because the exact thing I said, it was extremely loud and sometimes exaggerated to a extreme. But it was overall enjoyable once you understand that, this show is marketing mostly to lgbtq people that like to 'slay' and mostly gay men - from my pov analyzing the show- and once you understand that the show becomes a lot more fun to enjoy, since is overall well directed and written
I understand your point that the creatives get loud when they can, but the fact that marketers tamp it down is because they know the market isn't huge for gay content, and their job is to make sure money gets made so the creatives can keep creating. Owl house brings up a different point though, with regard to kids. First, when kids shows have gay content it is almost always in the second season. As a parent, this feels sneaky to me. It feels like they knew it wasn't something we wanted and decided to pop it in only after the first season did well with our kids. And most parents don't want their kids exposed to sexual or romantic content, especially not gay content. I think this is why the cartoons catch a huge amount of flak. The majority of adults are ok with homosexuality because we're adults, but still personally opposed to it and we don't want it for our kids. The cartoons feel like an end run. I didn't watch q-force, but that one seemed like an adult show that required you to really know gay culture in order to get it
@@gregowen2022 the owl house was actually good though. And like you said it doesn’t always have to be sexual, romantic gay relationships are perfectly fine
6:54 wait just a cotton pickin minute... It's still daylight out... Why do they have a lifetime supply of candles burning? Candles and even lamp oil are fairly expensive in modern times, forget about in a fantasy world where most of the work is done by hand. This is like setting money on fire for no reason -- "we need these tiny little fires because the giant ball of fire in the sky just isn't enough!"
Nope its just a four sided structure with four angles in it that add up to 360 degrees , so it can be a rectangle , a parallelogram , a rhombus , a kite, a trapezoid and also admittedly a square.
I am currently making a film within the scp universe. There's a huge number of fans for scp. So in my head, if I'm going to choose to play in this sandbox, it is incumbent on me to play with the toys already in the sandbox...with me only bringing a few new toys into it.
The shows and movies don’t suck because they’re diverse. They suck because they have shitty writing. Companies blaming consumers is as American as Henry Ford.
With that Bros movie and a trend with a lot of these kinds of movies is also the excuse "Its not made for you". Something Ichner said before the movie came out. If its not made for a certain demographic....why would they watch it? That's a thought and marketing problem because if you attempt to limit your audience then you limit your sales. Simple no?
I would love if Billy Eichner can explain why Brokeback Moutain, Moonlight, or Philadelphia did well and was well received. You'd think if people hated movies focusing on gay men, no one would've watched those and they would've been a flop. Yet, each of those movies all made significant profit. Maybe Billy Eichner will realize that it's not that people hate movies focusing on gay men, but rather they hate movies with shit writing,
The best gay movie of all time (in my opinion) is The Boys in the Band (the original) and gays like Eisner trash that movie because it's "negative" and "self-hating". Little do they know, showing the dark side of gay culture as well as the fun side is essential to telling the whole story. In TBitB, the needle is pointed inward the entire time. The mean gay, the guy who's negative and destructive, is held accountable for the way he is. They don't spend the movie dragging straight people and using them as an excuse for their own shortcomings, they hold themselves accountable. The one straight guy in the movie is held accountable for his fuck-ups, too, but he isn't otherized a single time. They don't even kick him out of the apartment, he stays and learns a great deal about how he was wrong just by watching the interactions of the other men. The film is very humanizing and amazing, but the toxic-positivity crowd isn't having any of that, they want to see superior, gay stereotypes who give them the escapism they so desperately need. We've progressed backwards in a lot of ways in such a short period of time.
It seems like a trend that the politically correct character has zero flaws. As you pointed out, flaws make a character relatable and interesting. This modern writing is so prideful about their ideology that they end up with flat boring characters that, ironically, put an bad taste in the audiences mouth about the ideology
When I saw the trailer for bros and thought it was making fun of the stereotypes and turning it up to 20. I was thinking how did this get greenlit and found out later who made it
So, I go out to dinner and complain that my steak is burned, then the chef comes out and tells me its my fault for not liking burned steak, but I say I only came to this restaurant tonight because I'd been here before and the steak they served was really good, then the chef tells me he started burning all the steak all the time because 1 person complained it wasnt burned and now hes sick of all us trolls complaining about burned steak and that we all just need to get woke and love burned steak, I wonder am I a steakist, I used to like the steak the way it was, am I not progressive enough, Is this how everyone likes steak now? Before i know it the media gets hold of the story and says I'm a cow killing steakist flamophobe, resulting in getting shadow banned on mootube and having to look for other income. So I put on a chefs apron and tell everyone that I now identify as a chef and that my pronouns are chef and cook, I open a restaurant and serve under burned steak which isnt even beef its actually raw chicken but I feel like its steak and I cover it in steak sauce, so therefore, it is steak, I'm then promoted by the media as stunning and brave and receive chef of the year awards. Unfortunately it doesnt take long for my customers to all get sick and stop coming to my restaurant.
I think brokeback did well in part because of the taboo curiosity, and though I haven't seen it, I'm also told it's a very solid story. Sadly, many a man has fallen because he just couldn't keep it in his pants
One of the things that is very apparent that we now see over and over in Hollywood is they are a prime example of being in an echo chamber. I really believe the Bros guy thought "the world has changed!" and everyone would run! not walk! to see a gay based romantic comedy. The fact that this kind of pandering fails over and over just does not shake them because everyone in their orbit tells them a bunch of nonsense. So when it fails over and over, they just assume it is the audience that is at fault.
Well alright, even tho' I don't honestly care for the "Woke", I guess I'll probably write down a short list of things I blame myself for in 2023 just to make y'all happy atleast. The things I blame myself for: 1. Being neutral to things that people hate the most. 2. Looking foward to seeing Rise of the Beasts for the Maximals since I grew up with this one Transformers show in the 90's called Beast Wars more than everyone's favorite 80's cartoon Transformers G1 3. Finding Jellystone! more enjoyable for my time than Velma because the Hanna-Barbera cartoon from HBOMax Jellystone's created by the same cartoonist that made two Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon shows Chowder (2008) and Harvey Beaks (2015) 4. Not caring for the LGBT even tho' everyone would force me to hate it. 5. Liking both Cartoons and Anime equally 6. Also looking foward to seeing the new animated TMNT movie while not caring if it's from Seth Rogen and 7. Being more of a 2000's and 90's kid than an 80's kid even tho' there was some 80's cartoons that I enjoyed that got bad reviews like GoBots and Barnyard Commandos. Well, I hope this list was worth it. 😐
are any of those things something that requires blame? what i think he means is... when you don't like that other people don't like what you do, don't say it's their fault... you're allowed to like or dislike things, people are allowed to agree with it, or not, but it's not their fault if their opinions differ from yours, your opinions are yours alone, it's wrong to expect other people to like you.
What I find hilarious about Bros is it literally embraces gay stereotypes. If a straight person made this movie they would be burned at the stake. Billy Eicnher should’ve watched Birdcage first.
Right? I like RomComs, but after watching that trailer, I got the strong sense that I wouldn't get half the jokes if I didn't have a good working knowledge of gay culture
The people who went to see it seemed to like it, it's got high marks. The real question is: does it feel like Eichner humor the whole time? Because that's a turn off for me
I Wonder when the day comes that writers realise that white men are not sexist or racist, most of us just don’t want to get preached to as we are supposed to be. It’s very frustrating when someone tries to „correct“ you even tho you just don’t care. I don’t care about your race or gender, I do care about paying for a movie which doenst entertain
I'm gay, and I didn't watch Bros because it was just more of big city queer culture which has absolutely nothing to do with gays like me that live rurally. It's tedious
I'm in the midwestern suburbs and I felt the same way. Not even the gay part, it just seemed like I wouldn't get it unless I understood city life, which I do not.
It seems like it has a bunch of references to gay culture which are going to go over the head of any straight person or any gay person who doesn't live in a big city. I'm also not a fan Billy's general style of comedy so I'll pass. I'm an evil cishet holding him back, lol
It’s worth noting that as a heterosexual man it’s entirely appropriate to find two dudes fucking repulsive. Tolerance is acceptance of other people’s route to validation as long as it doesn’t harm others. Personally I find most current left wingers have contemptible views but I still have friends who subscribe to these views who are lovely people
"The hubris of assuming that the audience owes you attention".. Pure word smith gold
I try to forge them well when I can. Thanks for the kind words!
Billy Eichner is a quisling and a sellout for refusing to support #DropTheT.
YESSS and when he said they get pleasure from simply changing the design to a different race. Like defeating some unseen demon and shaking the audience for ever liking the original character. He’s an amazing script writer
"Shits heartwarming as fuck."
“Blaming yourself” is maybe better described as “taking responsibility.” The whole concept of taking responsibility has been on the down-trend over the course of my long long 25 years on this earth, but I remember being taught in school and at home that we all need to take responsibility if we’re ever going to grow as people and get better
Even IF people have a problem with the sexuality and or gender of characters to the point of not supporting it, that’s just life. You can’t yell at people to support something or else all you’ve done is bully them into a belief.
That's absolutely true. They don't mind bullying in this case
Yeah, but hating on a hour long movie for just a few seconds of gayness is still pretty dumb.
Plus, all that really shows is that what you're making is trying to reach the wrong audience. If you've got a good piece of media any bigots will be more than made up for by the reasonable people who like it because it's good. A work that fails does so because it sucks and nobody wants to see it, not because of bigotry and sexism.
This movie is so bad even gay people didn't watch it. I didn't watch it and I'm not the only one.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Fujoshi.
"Representation just means 'marketing'". THANK YOU.
I don't know how people aren't getting it! Everything is sales
Honestly, it’s kinda funny that Mindy just race-swapped Velma to be progressive, but then wrote the character to be generally unlikeable (constantly being a dick to people who didn’t do anything wrong). Now I’m not gonna accuse Mindy of anything here, but doesn’t that seem a little problematic and hypocritical?
Some people have a stupid idea that being annoying and unlikable means strong.
As someone who is currently seeing a therapist for blaming myself for everything that goes wrong in my life, I see value in what you're saying and that there are people who need to hear this message. However don't let the pendulum swing TOO far in that direction if you know what I mean. ;D
You're totally right. Can't turn a good thing into a complex
@@gregowen2022 too much blame on either side becomes destructive! Too much blame shifting and you just seem like a jerk unwilling to change! Too much self blame and you become overly depressed and feel like you can’t change, which may spiral into acting like that same jerk, or doubling down on feeling miserable! Either way, both extremes don’t do squat to help you or others! Just as no one likes getting mindlessly blamed for someone’s own faults, no one likes being around someone who constantly belittles themself and lamp-shades themself 10x over! (There are people who are willing to help, but ONLY IF you accept responsibility AND accept that help!)
I sometimes feel super conscious about what others think, and I often care about others far more than myself. Thankfully, I’m getting much better, but it’s still a challenge. But unlike those examples that you and I mentioned, I’m aware of my faults, and am consciously trying to improve myself!
I agree with these thoughts 100%! The part of this video that helped me look at it from a different angle was the part about being able to enact change. If you blame yourself in the right way, you're not just digging on yourself, you're identifying why it's your fault and how to take that control to change things. I think that's a key part to not becoming just self-pitying. Source: I've been there.
The point about blaming yourself, first, is about agency, not culpability. It is the same thing for workplace safety. When I blamed myself for a workplace incident that resulted in a nasty fall, I did not blame myself to feel guilty, but to make sure that I paid more attention to what I was stepping on, in the future. By assuming the that the incident was the result of something that I did, instead of being a victim of circumstance, I summoned the agency to prevent it from happening, again.
1. How does being in therapy for blaming yourself for everything that goes wrong in your life lend credence to what you are saying?
2. What is the only common denominator in your life? You said it as if it is irrational to think you are in control of your own life.
The therapy part should be you learning that blaming yourself for your own life is what should happen so you can take steps to fix your absolute idiotic decisions. Based on your commentary I can only assume you are trash.
Like do they really think that attacking people is going to bring them into the audience? Especially in She-Hulk's case, where they attacked quite a lot of the existing Marvel fanbase while trying to bring in an audience that doesn't really care about Marvel and/or people who absolutely need entertainment to pander to them in order to enjoy it. Why can't writers appreciate their existing fanbase or find a way to please existing fans while CAREFULLY urging potential fans in
Toxic modern feminism lol
@tomcoop9750 I hate that feminism has been reduced to this. We are fighting for the very definition of woman in Scotland. Women don't want power over men. We just want single sex spaces where it's required (shelters, sports, bathrooms). Now, the feminists who truly care about equality are called bigots.
"Are, Are the trolls in the room with us right now?" I actually laughed out loud at that.
They are amazing at holding both "it's just trolls downvoting us" and "sales are disappointing" thoughts concurrently.
1:00 "Are you sitting down? Hold on." I was half expecting you to say "Hold on to your butts." Jurassic Park and the Bros poster reference
Dammit, that's good! Missed opportunity
@@gregowen2022 XD
As someone who admittedly is on Twitter much more than he should be, I see this sort of "blame the critic" mindset a *lot*. There's this one show with LGBTQ+ characters that I actually kinda like, but even I'm gonna admit it's not perfect. Yet when anyone says they don't like the show or critiques it for its honest shortcomings, not so much the creator of the show, but moreso the fandom will unleash hell's fury on those critics, calling them cishet like it's a slur and deeming them all homophobic, without seeing any flaws in the show itself. I'm LGBTQ myself, and even if I wasn't I consider myself an ally at the very least, but the hill they're choosing to die on isn't making them look good, and the fandom as a whole has a pretty bad reputation as being toxic because of these people. 🙄
Yes, Twitter fosters this kind of tribal mentality where your team is holy and righteous and any criticism whatsoever is attempted murder. I have tons of IPs I absolutely adore, and there are valid criticisms for all of them. I'm adult enough to accept those critiques and still love my thing.
Really good point, but you messed up the acronym at the start, lol.
@@slaysthecrusader.3477 jeez, I just noticed 😅😂
@@williamwestholm8654 It happens to the best of us.
I’m really curious what the show you’re talking about is
Funny, just a few months ago I started to realize the problem with my life was me and I started improving in the areas I was lacking and my life is so much better now because of it. I also became more aware of other people and I started caring about them and more people started to like me and I was making friends.
People want to be around caring people. I'm so glad things are going well for you! It takes a lot to find your own weaknesses and work to improve them. Bravo
@@gregowen2022 Took me a long time to figure it out. That's not a lesson anyone ever taught me until after I did it. But now it makes a lot of sense.
Responsibility and developing self empowerment. Understanding your consumer base .Developing a coherent strategy with your customers best interests at the forefront and demanding the same from your coworkers . Business must be earned . Even a humble store manager of a grocery store such as myself recognizes this fundamental truth. Outstanding content.
whiney children are really good at blaming the world for losing their iPad at school. even though they were at fault for bringing it to school in the first place.
You're right, and it doesn't help anything in the end. We need more accountability
I will say it's perfectly fine to do it for yourself or to send a message, but you have to remember, in that case, anyone else enjoying it is a bonus.
I love how he just goes off on tangents about random movies he likes
Ha, I guess bad movies make me miss good movies even more
"external forces conspire to trip me up, causing me to fail."
"MY BROTHER IN CHRIST YOU MADE THE SANDWICH"
Hahahaha, this is how I feel about the guys talking about “the matrix” coming after them.
Good to see you're still going,Greg!
I had a great weekend thanks to Mindy Kaling's terrible writing!
Thom looks cool as hell, btw
I'm just discovering Greg thanks to Mindy Kaling show also and now on a binge of his content. So, hi!
😂 "Adult lunchable board"😂😂
I discovered your videos today by pure chance and i have to say that they are some of the best breakdowns on modern media i have ever seen, keep up the great work
I really appreciate that, thank you so much!
Always liked the saying "When you point your finger in blame, there are 3 fingers pointing back at you."
the trailer for bros felt like a comedy skit rather than a movie
Even the name of the film is a doucheword.
It really did. It's not a straight agenda, it just doesn't look interesting
I've said it before, but it will always be true. You arent entitled to other people's money. Your job as a creative is to make things people want to see. If they dont, then you have failed at your job. Thats all there is to it.
When they decided to change Sonic from being gay it became an instant hit!
Lol 😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣 good luck with that
Going back though catalog and im very happy your audio has improved dramatically.
The Holiday IS a wonderful movie and should be seen more.
I've seen The Holiday, When Harry Met Sally, and The Proposal.
A trio of excellent movies!
It has to be that shows like this exist for the sole purpose of getting people to hate watch.
The worse it is, the more outrage it gets, and people watch to see what the controversy is about.
Left Twitter already. Best thing I have done in years. Also you should have some group chats with other YT folk like Critical Drinker. . .. . You guys could have a good chat. I like your breakdowns and appreciate an intelligent POV.
I really appreciate that! I would LOVE to chat with Drinker and some of those guys. I'll probably have to get a little bigger first. I did get an invite to chat with Despot of Antrim. We had a great talk and I like his breakdowns about this stuff as well. Very thorough with some great comedy bits
Damn it Greg! I was NOT sitting down for the Bros twist and twisted my ankle
Yeah I'm tried of them blaming us for their failures we told you we didn't like it we told you we didn't want it people are annoyed with these changes and performative diversity inclusion and fake representation and get a double down on it and then hit confused when it fails and then try to blame everybody else but themselves it's just tiring
I agree with the concept at the beginning, however I'll be first to admit that it can go too far and cause greater problems in the future. It's probably best to phrase it more like "understand that which is truly your fault." Always ask this first: "Was it my fault" and then review the situation objectively. I've found that it leads to "Yes" somewhere between 70-100% of the time.
It's especially important to understand that ego can blind people more than a dirt slap. Ego can make you think that you didn't do anything wrong or that it's something else that made you do it. In truth, how we respond it what makes it our doing.
Though I agree with blaming yourself can bring positive reinforcement if applied correctly and cautiously. In this, it makes you come to understand how much power you have in your life and that you can use that power once you figure it out. This is sorta why I agree with the idea of Original Sin, which states that all humans are born evil. While I think humans aren't evil, I believe we DO have the capacity to commit truly evil things. Yet, with that same power, we are equally capable of committing truly great acts of good. What one must understand when ut comes to the differentiation is that one needs self-reflection and self-realization so that one can understand where they failed and how best to correct it in the future.
Even if your failure is the fault of others/the world are you going to give up and cry about it or get up and try again/something else. The later is definitely more empowering and sets you up for future success
GREAT GREG OWEN VIDEO I AGREED BLAMING YOUR SEIF
Audience: we don't like what you're making, especially since it seems to be insulting us.
Show runners: we are failing and it's your fault.
Audience: well make stuff we actually like.
Love the Wheel of Time insert. RIP r/Whitecloaks
I'm still furious about it. One of these days they are going to officially announce the season 2 date and I'm going to need to take several walks
@@gregowen2022 Season 2 is going to be a thing to behold I am sure. I'll just do the Whitecloaks Re-Watch and get drunk with them instead 🤣
Were you a big fan of the books, or just an independent observer watching a train wreck?
Love the books, which made the wreck worse. What's crazy is that they had very interesting gender dynamics, which I thought would be explored in the show. Nope.
Drinking while watching might be the only way to get through
@@gregowen2022 oh for sure. Sacrifice your liver to protect your brain. Gotta stay safe out there
I know I have subscribed before, but here I am doing it again.
Success! Thank you so much
My "maybe it's a you problem" is generally that I don't go along with the woke hate mob--been kicked out of more rpg groups that way than I care to recall.
Was literally TOLD by one of those wokesters that it was a me problem too.
If we're all homophobic for not wanting to see Bros, how come Brokeback Mountain was such a success? We all new Velma was gay but you don't need to see anything on a kids cartoon?
Yeah, it's definitely a weird angle these people are taking. "pay attention to my thing or else you're a bad person".
@@gregowen2022 just noticed I spelt knew "new". Dumbarse with wine in hand! Only discovered your channel today but like it and have subscribed, don't go weird yank on me though because you seem sensible! 🏴
Ha, drinking and texting can be dangerous.
I'm glad you're here and I hope you continue to enjoy the videos!
@@gregowen2022 I've done worse than a minus one letter mistake when I was younger,(NEVER keep an ex girlfriend's number unless you have children!)🏴
Velma was a nerd, not a homosexual. Yeesh.
Even as a gay person with a bias towards stories centering on a male couple, the trailer for Bros was so bland that it legitimately put me off the film. Just because there are less good gay romance movies doesn’t mean I’m going to lower my standards when one does happen, because that’s how we end up with pandering films like Bros in the first place.
1:22 shits heartwarming af. lol.
This seems to be a cultural trend outside the arts as well. In politics blaming voters for not showing up has become an easy out for politicians and failed consultants. There is no introspection.
7:14 no. It waits until night time to come out and suck my breath away, but the cat protects me.
Hold up... I'm at 5:00 and just had the best explanation on stress... holly dingus...🎉
You deserve way more suscribers
That's what I keep saying! Well, until more show up, I appreciate you joining me
How can anyone look at the original scooby doo and think that velma is an improvement?
In my opinion, mystery incorporated was a better mature oriented version of scooby doo.
"You need to start blaming yourself firs."
Im way ahead of you bro, im currently in a full on impostor syndrome spiral.
About Time and Happiest Season are the best romcoms of all time
"blame yourself first"
i must be a very successful person
And take control, don't descend into unproductive self-loathing and barrels of ice-cream.
@@Selrisitai never actually had barrels of ice cream tho they sound pretty good (no, im not gonna do what you just said i mean the unproductive self loathing, i will take control)
I'll give Eickner(sp?) one thing, he tried to do something new and put his beliefs into it instead of just taking an existing IP and swapping characters out...like literally everyone else does
Hmmmmm…take responsibility for my own life? Or blame you? DING DING DING!!! Blame you wins hands down!
Proud of you.
There's a way to fix things when it's someone else's fault, even numerous other people's faults. What do you think the line "the floggings will continue until morale improves!" Is addressing?
This video needs to be played for every DEI department.
I sort of agree with most of your points. I do believe that, if your show/movie didn't succeed, isn't the fault of the audience, but it can be your own fault and the marketing fault. Sometimes they made a amazing story but the marketing was crap. And sometimes, big companies don't market a lgbtq story properly, due to homophobia
Is never the audience fault your story failed, it was either you or a bad marketing campaign.
I also thing, as someone that is part of the LGBTQ community, that is not good enough just put a gay plot in your show and think it will carry by itself. Many shows have a very dedicated fanbase that leach on lgbtq characters and make this aspect the only thing worth paying attention to, but it won't be enough to hold on it's own. This is why most shows with representation feels like they are bad written sometimes, because many think this is enough to hold on a audience for a long time, and hide writing mistakes
But there are cases when a percentage of the audience boycott a show or movie because it has elements that don't fit with the cis hetero norm, and the backlash makes companies be scared and pull out. Even thought it is not a majority, is a loud minority and is enough for already homophobic and misogynistic owners to hide and butcher the marketing of said show and movie.
Luckily we are going through a direction where representation has more nuance and doesn't need to be loud to be accepted
I think you're right about the marketing. Look at this Strange World movie that just came out. I don't think anyone even knew it was coming! What's odd, though, is that it's from Disney and they generally don't shy away like another studio might. Hopefully soon writers catch on that being gay or black or whatever isn't an entire personality and doesn't sell a character or story.
It's been done. I was just watching some Brooklyn 99 last night. Captain Holt is an excellent character
@@gregowen2022 I’ve seen a few ads for the movie but literally none of it tells me anything about the movie that can’t be assumed from the title.
@@gregowen2022 if you think about it, is not odd. Following the creators of the owl House and Gravity falls, they speak openly how the company don't want to make stories with LGBTQ characters. They constantly want a different thing, or a different character, but once they see they can't win, they "accept it" but pull out the marketing or the sloth time in the channel. The Owl House isn't even in Disney Plus, as far as I know, and every time they put a show or a movie on China, they heavily edit it too.
Disney have a history of being low key homophobic, and then trying to look like a ally.
Strange world is the same. Creators can easily make a Raymond Holt, or a Rosa Diaz and handle with the same level of sudtlety and care. The reason they don't do it, is because the companies, specially on content market to all ages, constantly try to censor the creators, and I believe this is why they are always loud, and why the characters have to show they are from the LGBTQ community. Once they see they can speak, they yell to be heard.
If companies like Disney, weren't so spineless, and didn't cave to the minority of people saying "this shouldn't be in a kids show/movie" and just let creators do what they wanted, the creators wouldn't make being LGBTQ a big deal. We would have more Raymond Holts and Rosa Dias on TV, and less of "the Owl House Luz coming out segment"
I guarantee this, because I am a artist myself, and I am sure the majority don't want to make a race or a sexuality the only thing that holds the character in place. Now, many artists do this, but is for a lack of writing knowledge than anything else. Some creators do stories where the race and sexuality is a the only focus, also because is also a marketing move. Lgbtq centered stories sell, so are stories talking about a culture and a race. Those types are midia are fine in moderation, and also if is treated with respect. A great example of this is the show Q-force, when BEING LGBTQ is the center of the story. Many people saw issue on it, because the exact thing I said, it was extremely loud and sometimes exaggerated to a extreme. But it was overall enjoyable once you understand that, this show is marketing mostly to lgbtq people that like to 'slay' and mostly gay men - from my pov analyzing the show- and once you understand that the show becomes a lot more fun to enjoy, since is overall well directed and written
I understand your point that the creatives get loud when they can, but the fact that marketers tamp it down is because they know the market isn't huge for gay content, and their job is to make sure money gets made so the creatives can keep creating.
Owl house brings up a different point though, with regard to kids. First, when kids shows have gay content it is almost always in the second season. As a parent, this feels sneaky to me. It feels like they knew it wasn't something we wanted and decided to pop it in only after the first season did well with our kids. And most parents don't want their kids exposed to sexual or romantic content, especially not gay content. I think this is why the cartoons catch a huge amount of flak.
The majority of adults are ok with homosexuality because we're adults, but still personally opposed to it and we don't want it for our kids. The cartoons feel like an end run.
I didn't watch q-force, but that one seemed like an adult show that required you to really know gay culture in order to get it
@@gregowen2022 the owl house was actually good though. And like you said it doesn’t always have to be sexual, romantic gay relationships are perfectly fine
Well spoken brother
I appreciate you watching!
This guy makes good videos. 👍
6:54 wait just a cotton pickin minute... It's still daylight out... Why do they have a lifetime supply of candles burning? Candles and even lamp oil are fairly expensive in modern times, forget about in a fantasy world where most of the work is done by hand. This is like setting money on fire for no reason -- "we need these tiny little fires because the giant ball of fire in the sky just isn't enough!"
Hahaha 😂😂😂😂 totally agree! I’ll watch bros when it come to streaming. Ain’t gonna watch it at the movies. I select what I want to see at the cinemas
In the words of Lord Garmadon, "How did I ruin your series I wasn't even there"
i tell people this all the time, but they call me an ass for not being sympathetic
Hi! Snarky internet commentator here. A "quadrangle" is called a square 🔲. Back to you Greg.
Very true, I don't know why they described it that way, but then I don't know why they did anything the way they did in that show
Nope its just a four sided structure with four angles in it that add up to 360 degrees , so it can be a rectangle , a parallelogram , a rhombus , a kite, a trapezoid and also admittedly a square.
I am currently making a film within the scp universe. There's a huge number of fans for scp. So in my head, if I'm going to choose to play in this sandbox, it is incumbent on me to play with the toys already in the sandbox...with me only bringing a few new toys into it.
The shows and movies don’t suck because they’re diverse. They suck because they have shitty writing. Companies blaming consumers is as American as Henry Ford.
Great video.
Thank you very much for watching!
With that Bros movie and a trend with a lot of these kinds of movies is also the excuse "Its not made for you". Something Ichner said before the movie came out. If its not made for a certain demographic....why would they watch it? That's a thought and marketing problem because if you attempt to limit your audience then you limit your sales. Simple no?
Exactly. You can't say it's not made for straight people and then say the movie failed because straight people didn't show up
The Holiday is gay. But you know what romcon isn't? Kaguya-sama Love Is War. That shit is wholesome and hilarious on a level no film could ever match.
I would love if Billy Eichner can explain why Brokeback Moutain, Moonlight, or Philadelphia did well and was well received. You'd think if people hated movies focusing on gay men, no one would've watched those and they would've been a flop. Yet, each of those movies all made significant profit. Maybe Billy Eichner will realize that it's not that people hate movies focusing on gay men, but rather they hate movies with shit writing,
this is one of my new favorite channels
Thank you for being here!
The best gay movie of all time (in my opinion) is The Boys in the Band (the original) and gays like Eisner trash that movie because it's "negative" and "self-hating".
Little do they know, showing the dark side of gay culture as well as the fun side is essential to telling the whole story. In TBitB, the needle is pointed inward the entire time. The mean gay, the guy who's negative and destructive, is held accountable for the way he is. They don't spend the movie dragging straight people and using them as an excuse for their own shortcomings, they hold themselves accountable. The one straight guy in the movie is held accountable for his fuck-ups, too, but he isn't otherized a single time. They don't even kick him out of the apartment, he stays and learns a great deal about how he was wrong just by watching the interactions of the other men. The film is very humanizing and amazing, but the toxic-positivity crowd isn't having any of that, they want to see superior, gay stereotypes who give them the escapism they so desperately need.
We've progressed backwards in a lot of ways in such a short period of time.
It seems like a trend that the politically correct character has zero flaws. As you pointed out, flaws make a character relatable and interesting. This modern writing is so prideful about their ideology that they end up with flat boring characters that, ironically, put an bad taste in the audiences mouth about the ideology
I'll be looking foward to your next video,because this one made me subscribed to your channel. Great video and topic.
I appreciate you joining me! Next one's in a day or so and I really hope you like it.
When I saw the trailer for bros and thought it was making fun of the stereotypes and turning it up to 20. I was thinking how did this get greenlit and found out later who made it
“Bros” was being advertised to the Tumblr crowd? Where was that? Which tags could I find it advertised?
holiday is a pretty good movie.
So, I go out to dinner and complain that my steak is burned, then the chef comes out and tells me its my fault for not liking burned steak, but I say I only came to this restaurant tonight because I'd been here before and the steak they served was really good, then the chef tells me he started burning all the steak all the time because 1 person complained it wasnt burned and now hes sick of all us trolls complaining about burned steak and that we all just need to get woke and love burned steak, I wonder am I a steakist, I used to like the steak the way it was, am I not progressive enough, Is this how everyone likes steak now? Before i know it the media gets hold of the story and says I'm a cow killing steakist flamophobe, resulting in getting shadow banned on mootube and having to look for other income. So I put on a chefs apron and tell everyone that I now identify as a chef and that my pronouns are chef and cook, I open a restaurant and serve under burned steak which isnt even beef its actually raw chicken but I feel like its steak and I cover it in steak sauce, so therefore, it is steak, I'm then promoted by the media as stunning and brave and receive chef of the year awards. Unfortunately it doesnt take long for my customers to all get sick and stop coming to my restaurant.
Yes bro
Hmm...I thought Brokeback Mountain did pretty well. And wasn't the love quadrangle one of the things that brought SBF down.
I think brokeback did well in part because of the taboo curiosity, and though I haven't seen it, I'm also told it's a very solid story.
Sadly, many a man has fallen because he just couldn't keep it in his pants
One of the things that is very apparent that we now see over and over in Hollywood is they are a prime example of being in an echo chamber. I really believe the Bros guy thought "the world has changed!" and everyone would run! not walk! to see a gay based romantic comedy. The fact that this kind of pandering fails over and over just does not shake them because everyone in their orbit tells them a bunch of nonsense. So when it fails over and over, they just assume it is the audience that is at fault.
Add a 10 second still image at the end of your videos so I can click on your suggestions 🙏
In short Hollywood is not owed our time and money.
That last Section brings me Deja Vu of me playing ranked games in League of Legends q.q
You are correct about romcoms being gay.
I liked him in Parks and Rec
*sees wheel of crap...eye twitches in anger*
I can't stop mentioning that abomination in my videos. That betrayal will never be forgotten or forgiven
Well alright, even tho' I don't honestly care for the "Woke", I guess I'll probably write down a short list of things I blame myself for in 2023 just to make y'all happy atleast.
The things I blame myself for:
1. Being neutral to things that people hate the most.
2. Looking foward to seeing Rise of the Beasts for the Maximals since I grew up with this one Transformers show in the 90's called Beast Wars more than everyone's favorite 80's cartoon Transformers G1
3. Finding Jellystone! more enjoyable for my time than Velma because the Hanna-Barbera cartoon from HBOMax Jellystone's created by the same cartoonist that made two Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon shows Chowder (2008) and Harvey Beaks (2015)
4. Not caring for the LGBT even tho' everyone would force me to hate it.
5. Liking both Cartoons and Anime equally
6. Also looking foward to seeing the new animated TMNT movie while not caring if it's from Seth Rogen
and
7. Being more of a 2000's and 90's kid than an 80's kid even tho' there was some 80's cartoons that I enjoyed that got bad reviews like GoBots and Barnyard Commandos.
Well, I hope this list was worth it.
😐
are any of those things something that requires blame? what i think he means is... when you don't like that other people don't like what you do, don't say it's their fault... you're allowed to like or dislike things, people are allowed to agree with it, or not, but it's not their fault if their opinions differ from yours, your opinions are yours alone, it's wrong to expect other people to like you.
3:25 Spelled "attitude" wrong.
Bros discount brokeback mountain
How did these creators get into a system that opposes their specific groups?
if all the characters love Velma - has it become a Harem?
What I find hilarious about Bros is it literally embraces gay stereotypes. If a straight person made this movie they would be burned at the stake. Billy Eicnher should’ve watched Birdcage first.
Right? I like RomComs, but after watching that trailer, I got the strong sense that I wouldn't get half the jokes if I didn't have a good working knowledge of gay culture
You need to be the president of Hollywood. And Netflix. And HBO. And Amazon. And...
It’s the fault of every single person in this comments section that I’m not rich and famous! Go ahead, prove me wrong Trolls!
I actually liked bros. I think it’s a shame that it didn’t do so well.
The people who went to see it seemed to like it, it's got high marks. The real question is: does it feel like Eichner humor the whole time? Because that's a turn off for me
I Wonder when the day comes that writers realise that white men are not sexist or racist, most of us just don’t want to get preached to as we are supposed to be. It’s very frustrating when someone tries to „correct“ you even tho you just don’t care. I don’t care about your race or gender, I do care about paying for a movie which doenst entertain
Are you transitioning or are you just really comfortable with your body?
I'm very comfortable with eating copious amounts of cheeseburgers and fries
❤
I'm gay, and I didn't watch Bros because it was just more of big city queer culture which has absolutely nothing to do with gays like me that live rurally.
It's tedious
I'm in the midwestern suburbs and I felt the same way. Not even the gay part, it just seemed like I wouldn't get it unless I understood city life, which I do not.
Honestly, Bros looked decent, but not really something I wanted to go out and see.
It seems like it has a bunch of references to gay culture which are going to go over the head of any straight person or any gay person who doesn't live in a big city. I'm also not a fan Billy's general style of comedy so I'll pass. I'm an evil cishet holding him back, lol
It’s worth noting that as a heterosexual man it’s entirely appropriate to find two dudes fucking repulsive. Tolerance is acceptance of other people’s route to validation as long as it doesn’t harm others. Personally I find most current left wingers have contemptible views but I still have friends who subscribe to these views who are lovely people
Regressive is the polite way of saying racist
Hmm not to nitpick but it's Attitude.
It's shocking how long I can be editing a video and miss stuff like that
@@gregowen2022 sorry
I boycotted Billy Eichner's film by not knowing about it.