I think Tim’s got it wrong about multiverses being the coolest thing ever. Narratively a multiverse is a terribly unwieldy concept. It sounds cool, and it makes for a fun one off, but it’s completely unrelatable and unsustainable as it gets explored in more detail. I will say though, I appreciate pretty much everything else he said. His way of viewing the future in a positive light is very nice to have in the discussion.
@@SuperfiveGPbecause it set it up and finished it around a character-driven the story. The MCU is current a concept-driven story featuring these characters as pawns to move the story forward at a snails pace
A multiverse is no different than a regular timeline. It's just characters. Across the Spiderverse gives you 5 or 6 different versions of the same spiderman type character that all stand as their own thing.
The multiverse is a necessity. It only exists to be a convenient way for Marvel to introduce the characters that have been coexisting during the same time but chained up to other studios.
i generally agree, and multiverses, like time-travel, have that issue where stakes and lives can mean nothnig if there's countless versions of the same character, or if everything can be undone and fixed, however like others have said, rare exceptions like the *Spider-Verse* films & *Everything Everywhere All At Once* buck that trend and do some spectacular things with the concept.
I respect the opinions of KF. I honestly think before you say Eff someone and he should face jail time maybe do some research on the charges. He wasn’t charged with beating her and intentional harm. The 3rd degree charge is for reckless inflict based on getting her off of him and tryin to place her in the vehicle. Let’s not throw stones and hide our hands. I would want to appeal and redeem myself if ever in a horrible situation. Jonathan Majors is an amazing actor.
Follow up: I am never trying to bash anyone or bring about division amongst any community. I served 20 years and 21 days in the Air Force and honorably retired effective 1 Dec of this year. My background is not game journalism, but I still feel we all have opinions and they should be respected. Although an opinion may differ, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. This cancel culture cancer needs to be dealt with. We can have different opinions and still be friends. As part of your opening monologue on games daily, you have you’re wrong and etc. if this was the topic of conversation; why not research the charges? Why not have someone of color who maybe can speak to how these issues affect us and how we move around and conduct business. It doesn’t need to be a race issue, but do you all believe that if someone regardless of gender takes your property and assaults you; do you not have the right to defend yourself? New York also has a law for self defense. Again, have real conversations. Nick saying he isn’t a great actor is his opinion, but I would ask Nick has he viewed him in other projects? Lovecraft Country on MAX? Again, just some things I wish I could have seen in this episode. The same care and thought that you all put into game journalism and reporting. Love, Care, and Research.
Lol nah that's just Greg. My wife is an only child and still goes all out for her mom. I'm the oldest of 6 and I wouldn't gift my parents anything if my wife didn't insist
Tim, as one Tim to another, it's the quality straight up. I know you say it's not that different from Phase 1 and 2 but it really is. Marvel had more consistency back the. The issue is two fold: 1. Rather than having 2-3 duds per phase, now there are 2-3 good shows/movies. Good quality offerings have become the exception rather than the rule. 2. There is no clear vision with a lack of a storyline the mainstream can latch onto. Part of the crew was right, you are missing the heavy hitters and while I agree that Cap and Iron Man were B list that became A list, it doesn't matter if people don't like the character. Those roles shined because the actors brought life to them and made people fall in love with Downey, before they even realized he was Tony Stark. But it's not just the heroes I am taking about, the villains too. Nobody cares in the mainstream about Kang and they have done a poor job of setting him up frankly. People want that excitement that comes from something they are familiar with, like a F4 or X-men and right now there is nothing to be excited about. Why salvage the pieces of Kang and the Multiversus when you have Doom, Magneto, Apocalypse, Galactus now? They just need to get back on track because I disagree, I don't think it's the audience's demand or fatigue that makes these projects not hit like they used to. It's the lack of vision and quality we lost shortly after going to streaming. The MCU used to be an event because the quality was there, it was a premium experience. Now, with both that an Star Wars (with a few exceptions) it's just another mediocre project with bad CGI, bad writing, poor acting, and absolutely no reason to put up with it in favor of building to something greater.
...did it have more consistency? If we pull out the movies from Phase 2 and take a look at them: - Iron Man 3 is widely considered to be the worst of the trilogy, it switched directors and suffered for it. The only thing in this movie that even mattered moving forward was that kid having that 12 second cameo in Endgame. - Thor: The Dark World is widely considered to also suck, as did the first Thor movie. The character was such a mess they had to completely reboot how they viewed up with Ragnarok and give him a 4th movie to make up for it. - Captain America: The Winter Soldier was great, I don't think that's at all contested. It is worth noting that Black Widow was like half a character up until this movie. - Guardians of the Galaxy was a shocker hit, taking a bunch of characters nobody knew and making it into something magical. This movie also lead absolutely nowhere with the introduction of the Infinity Stones until it magically did lead somewhere...4 years later. None of these characters interacted, spoke of, or were even in the same galaxy (except for the 5 minute intro to this movie) of the MCU at large until Infinity war. - Avengers: Age of Ultron...don't people usually say this is the weakest Avengers movie? I don't know, but most of this movie means nothing in the actual story they were building. The only two things were the introduction of Vision, which wasn't even clear until later, and the 5 second last minute Thanos post-credits scene. I don't really think people were excited about Ultron and left the movie being happy they saw that story depicted. - Ant-Man, which...is a cute fun side movie? Nobody was singing the praises of the first two movies before Quantumania, and they certainly were just blips in the MCU story. You could probably pull out a cross examination and do the same thing for Phases 1 & 3. So, in conclusion, we've got 2 movies people seem to widely dislike. There's an Avengers movie that is the weakest of the pack so far and a cute fun Ant-Man movie (which nobody even saw, really). A surprise hit in Guardians of the Galaxy, and then a great Captain America movie. That's 2 bad, 2 middling, and 2 great out of a total of 6. That feels like a very mixed bag in both vision and quality, at least to me. I don't see any through line in most of these projects that wasn't added on after the fact (aka., Dark World, Age of Ultron, and GotG featuring Infinity Stones). I agree with some of what you're saying, but Tim is absolutely right that everyone has rose tinted glasses for the entire MCU post-Endgame. That entire "the whole MCU built up to Endgame" thing is a complete lie, they cobbled together that concept at the last minute. At no point were they writing an Avengers story about Ultron and thinking about how this is going to lead up to Thanos trying to steal the Infinity Stones and wipe out half of all life. That's because it didn't, you could very validly argue that they wasted an entire Avengers movie on a villain and plot that nobody cared about and nobody wanted that lead nowhere. The quantity of releases (via the shows) increasing and therefore increasing the ratio of middling/bad projects to good ones is really just to the point. The demand got out of control and they put out so much that now the ratio is wildly off and we're forced to spend time on nonsense stories to help fill that demand. EDIT: Also, speaking of Star Wars, the same rose tinted glasses thing applies just as well to that. The prequels were criticized endlessly for being awful abominations to the franchise that were too CG-heavy and a complete mess. Going even further back, George Lucas had absolutely no idea what he was doing during the original trilogy and a lot of it was made up on the fly. There was no plan, otherwise he wouldn't have accidentally put an incestual kiss and a weird love triangle with Luke and his sister into the central plot of the movies.
Except for the fact that he’s only ever been good in the comics…. He’s never had a good video game appearance, tv appearance, movie appearance, and yet everyone marvel Stan screams he’s the gold standard. You do realize he is literally the blank slate that other villians were created on, right? And I would add that until 2015, no one took dr doom seriously as a “serious” villain, he’s always been cool and popular, but he’s nothing in comparison to Kang, Thanos, Green Gonlin, Kingpin, The Magus, I could go on and on about comic book characters that saved the genre while Fantastic 4 and Dr doom were killing marvel
@@sams-pg7hj Secret Wars was, at its heart, a Dr. Doom story. But it’s supposed to be the LAST Doctor Doom story. Marvel could introduce him now but they’d essentially blow their best villain on one movie with no buildup whatsoever. It’d be a bad call
@@cam4748exactly, when did secret wars come out again, 2015, when did I say people cared about doom, 2015. Weeks and weeks of your stupidity dude. You don’t understand basic grammar do you?
I'm the opposite of Tim, I think the multiverse stuff is the least cool thing. It makes nothing matter b/c you can just pull up infinite amounts of the same characters from another universe.
From what I understood Feige lost a lot of creative power when the new CEO took over in 2019-2020. He appointed his right hand man (an accountant or something a long those lines) as a chief creative executive and thats where the quality of shows kinda dipped. Now that Iger is back as CEO and gave back the creators their power back, Feige is kinda doing a soft reboot and we should see some quality media (hopefuly lol)
Which is crazy to think that anyone with knowledge of what was going on in the early years of the MCU would take any power away from Fiege because we know things didn't become what we loved until the got rid of people who kept getting in the way.
Exactly. The weakest moments in MCU history were when Feige had limited control because of people over him: phase 2 with Ike Perlmutter and the creative committee and now phase 4 and the pandemic era with Chapek and his terrible decisions that led to him getting fired.
It only took five movies until avengers. Gonna have to disagree with the “we’re more impatient now” it shouldn’t take 12+ movies and 20+ projects for a single avengers movie to come out. We haven’t had a single team up movie since endgame. Spider-Man was awesome but it still wasn’t the different characters from the different movies team up
I see people in the comments trying to make hey over Majors guilt or innocence and all sides are missing the point where Disney is concerned: it DOESN’T matter if he is “actually” guilty or not, its about perception, controversy and how does it reflect on the bottom line. The man getting a conviction of any kind from all this makes him staying viable in the MCU a moot point. As boneheaded as WB were about not saying anything regarding Ezra Millers conviction the same thing that’s happening to Majors happened to Miller, the minute there was a conviction they were pushed out of the franchise, period. The problem is that WB sat on The Flash for so long it came out post conviction so it felt like Miller was somehow getting a pass when they weren’t.
Andy and Greg trying to out-virtue signal each other at the beginning lmao. Clearly you guys haven't been following this case even slightly. In no way did Jonathan Majors "beat up on people", and I don't even care about the guy or if he was fired. That's just factually not what the charges were.
Nobody says virtue signaling except right wing red pill pipeline clowns. It's always good to say there is a real human story behind this before you talk about how it sucks a movie lost its actor.
Agree with Tim on the state of the MCU but do feel quality has dipped due to the volume of projects. Also I feel people were saying that they should do Doom/Galactus instead of Thanos as he had just been sitting in his chair not doing anything. Then Infinity War hype started suddenly there was hype for Thanos
YES!! THANK YOU! Everyone has rose tinted glasses about the first 3 phases of the MCU. Technically current day MCU Is exactly where Thor 2 landed in the phase 2 timeline and the scope of the 3 phase story they were telling. At the time between Avengers and GotG no one was that excited about Thanos because his part of the story hadn’t truly come up yet. I think we have a similar situation with Kang. Even with Quantumania we still have not met or experienced Kangs full arc as a villain. I swear as a comic fan for decades I have heard these same complaints about the MCU going back to phase 1 and 2. Infinity War and Endgame have sadly crowded out the reality of what the MCU has been doing from day one.
@@langleymneely Yea, the first Avengers teased Thanos without really following through on it till many years later. Kang and the multiverse meanwhile is being established much better than Thanos and the stones were at this point across the 3 phases of their respective sagas.
The audience hasn't changed. Marvel has. We don't expect rapid fire payoffs but, each and everything in phase 4 and 5 have just been world/universe ending threats will obvious setups. We're tired of always teeing up, but never getting to swing. You can only jingle the keys for so long.
Victor Timely was awful, almost unwatchable in Loki 2. I hated that choice for him, whether that was his choice or the director's direction to act that way
@@sams-pg7hj Your talking about creative choices and not the level of talent in the raw performance. Majors has demonstrated some of the highest talent out of any actor in the MCU.
Greg going with the headline type PC safe take. We dont know all the evidence and jury judgment isnt always fair either. But based on images with show minor marks..no beating and that surveillance video. You can see he was having to be rough to get her off of him as he was escaping her. Other celebs have done worse and or show more character flaws and no firing. DC, think about rdj past of many arrest but no jail time.
@@lilgimpboy well who knows cause addiction hurts others. But physically speaking, majors seemed to have caused harm yes, but from that footage and the minimal damage. It was to get away from her and her clutching onto him. Can't do a simple walk away. She ran after dude when he got her off him. He first tried from the car and then outside. This isn't an excuse or a great defense, but if he wanted to actually assault/attack she'd be worse off. Which luckily wasn't the case for either of them. He was pushing and then also having to pull her off him. So yeah she got some discoloration from those altercations. Not saying he's not flawed but this doesn't scream assault imo. He didnf beat her. She also seems unwell mentally. Based on footage and recordings from their home. Some of which she recorded herself. So being found guilty of what seems self defense seems odd to me. If anyone keeps grabbing you, no way you just be okay with it. If people are ..they're lying. Like cops saying no we weren't hurting them..we were just holding onto them and trying to keep them near us.
They should have a seen in Deadpool 3 where Deadpool and Logan just go on a killing spree of all the Kangs and a funny quip being like “THAT’S who they were afraid of?!”
Thinking about Tims majority ranking system it really doesn't make sense. If 2 people rank a movie 5, and the others rank it 9 & 10, it's ranked a 5. But if the other 2 tanked it 10 & 10 it's suddenly a tie.
@@CheefChaos the tie wasn't really the point it's how the votes are not evened out. Half the group could think it's a bad movie but it can still be ranked pretty high.
Majors didn’t beat up his girlfriend, he injured her while trying to get his phone back. His lawyers definitely failed him. He should have just stated what happened from the beginning and come clean to injuring her whilst trying to get back his property. There’s a whole video of the incident where after they got out the car she chased him down. To me, it sounded like a toxic relationship. His ex having injuries from taking a person’s possessions without permission used that to clearly get revenge on him because he was a rising star.
Listening to KF talk about Marvel movies is so strange. In this podcast they were extremely critical of the recent era of MCU movies, but during the reviews for each of those movies/shows they discuss them like they're one of the greatest things they've ever seen. It's amazing what happens when they've taken some time to actually think about these things.
Recast. Denzel Washington as Prime Kang who kills all the Variants and wins the Multiversal War with Alioth before it even begins, then the next Avengers films can be Prime Kang gunning for Loki's throne, prompting thr TVA to assemble a Multiversal Avengers to protect Loki.
Marvel’s X-Men will obviously be going for the 90’s Jim Lee designs, that’s why people are so excited, cause they’ll finally feel authentic, regardless of how “good” it’ll be. Deadpool was the only part of Fox’s movies that felt authentic, which is why he’s the only one not being changed. But Kang/multiverse stuff was obviously being set up for a gigantic crossover movie, the biggest one yet, that has been established to the mainstream far better than X-Men plans, which has been at a crossroads of mix messaging between authentic designs and actors who played them from unauthentic movies (due to legal limitations). The mainstream doesn’t understand yet if they’re bringing over Fox’s characters, starting whole new ones, or a mix, but they did understand how Secret Wars was going to be batshit crazy with Jonathan Majors at the center of it.
I think if the current slate was successful Majors would not be getting the boot. This feels like Marvel took this as an opportunity to shift plans without criticism over their road map.
I think we need more No Way Home-level movies to keep this thing going. The lows might not be quite as low, but there's very little to be excited about. It's all been very middling.
So Tim is just gonna rebuttal every point with “well even phase 2 and 3 had mid movies” “well, even we didn’t give a shit about Captain America at first” Sigh, I hate when Tim goes full fanboy and keeps revising history to make his point sound better. But it doesn’t.
@@Alex_Logan22 I disagree. We’re past all that. They may as well just reboot the whole thing if they’re going to keep treating the viewers like they need these mindless introductions to characters and have them all be so bad, regardless of criticism. Their approach to a clean slate is just so strange when Civil War and Endgame are extremely watered-down versions of their comic counterparts. I really think if they want to have these smaller-scale movies, fine, but base them off of popular comic runs and just have them be great in isolation until deciding to bring them together. Or, to me, the more interesting approach would be to just add characters and stop treating it like every character needs it’s own franchise - can just do that after.
@@Alex_Logan22 yes it does. What Tim says is a justification for why phase 4 sucks, when phases 2 and 3 had many more movies with characters we already love, doing things cool and doing them together -- phase 4 has basically none of that and its ALL mid movies.
I think Marvel is so lucky they have the perfect opportunity to spin this. Loki is how you fix this, at the end of season 2 we have a few characters talking about how pur reality dealt with theirs Kang, well we just have the TVA, withbthe help of Loki take care of Kang. Simple and tonthe point, have some appearances from the TVA members on other movies explaining how busy they are dealing with this Kang menace. And since they are dealing with the smartest man ever they can use that as an excuse to introduce Dr Doom as our big multiverse baddie. And theybcan even but a cool twist on this bad boy instead of having to deal with all the Dr Doom what if our Dr Doom wants to get rid of ALL the other Dooms, the Secret War... Well thats my two cents
Not to defend Jonathan but it’s really awkward to see Greg immediately throw him under the bus without any research or analysis/discussion into that part of the topic, which is just as worthy of discourse as the Marvel side of it.
I think people are going to be burnt out on multiverse stuff because consequences feel inconsequential if there's another version of a character in some other universe. If we stick with the multiverse, it would be cool to retcon/reset some things w Loki 2 that didn't live up to the potential of the comics (ex Skrulls and Secret Invasion).
We are not too "simple minded" for not enjoying the current slate of mcu. Tim is acting like if we just get to the end of the phase we'll see what theyve been building towards. Theres no chance they can salvage any of this. If we dont enjoy the ride, we won't enjoy the conclusion.
Agreed. There are so many unknowns or contradictions about the multiverse, alot of promise and teasing that has not paid off. Also the multiverse as marvel frames it is quite simple, it just hasn't been done well or followed and established rules consistently enough to get people engaged with what they are trying to do
@@sams-pg7hj There's just no sense of this going anywhere. There's a dozen possible threads to follow that don't really connect, and it feels like the best case scenario is we just end phase 6 by putting all these disparate characters/teams in a tournament style arena. Which I guess is their intention with secret wars. But it just feels like smash bros at that point where it doesn't matter that none of those characters interacted beforehand.
Replying to myself because I want to speculate more. It really is the best case scenario that Secret Wars is just a hodgepodge of every marvel property film series popping up for a tournament. All the Spiderman, all the X-Men, both Blades, both Daredevils, every Hulk, both Fantastic Four teams, whatever they can get their hands on. Just make it a dumb cage match so we can walk into it without having to care about the plot since at this point it's pretty hard to see how they can regain a sense of narrative.
Absolutely! Avengers 5 should've been a nice intro for our new characters to meet. Now they're all going to meet at the same time as all the universes colliding. So why should we even care. We won't care if the the bonds aren't established first.
I know Tim is very knowledgeable and passionate about the marvel movies but I have to disagree that pound for pound it’s as good as ever. We haven’t had this much mid since phase two. Phase one was tight, 5 movies then the flippin avengers. Phase 3 was an all timer of course and pound for pound, movie for movie there’s way to many highs and lows in phase 4 and phase five is off to the worst start yet, one outta three was good so far and that’s not even counting the wave of disconnected mid that is the shows. There was literally no avengers type get together in phase 4 or even slated for phase 5.
If Deadpool 3 doesn't kill off the Fox X-Men characters then I'd love Avengers 5 to be Avengers vs X-Men. Btw I appreciate Tim being an MCU defender because there's very few of us left lol
9 Years? I feel so old 😂 Also I’ve not watched Loki season 2 yet but the fact Kang was already defeated in Ant Man, made him feel weak so I wouldn’t hate just changing it up
Sure, if you ignore him throwing his girlfriend into a car and the text messages and audio that make it clear that he is a controlling and abusive. @@realadelphstar
I'm sorry, but Tim is delusional when it comes to the post endgame slate. Yes some have been hits, but there's more it was ok and it was bad. And it's not about how many years between seeing the infinity stones compared to the lack of conversation on the hand, it's the amount of content from when that happened to now. It's the fact that Nick Fury in his space station, wasn't alarmed enough by it to come down and set up a base in the palm to study it. It's that the hand coming out of the ocean would have caused a massive tidal wave.
Off topic but I am so sick of people acting like the Infinity Saga was a clear PLANNED progression and Thanos was ALWAYS the end game. It’s just revisionist history. Rewatch Phase 1 and the first half of Phase 2 and you’ll see that there was no plan. Everyone who is interested should read MCU: the Reign of Marvel Studios - it’s elucidating. Phase 4 and 5 have been messy, but that’s a volume issue so it seems more exacerbated, we had disparate threads for the first 6-7 years of the MCU before they tied together well.
This hole podcast felt like Tim complaining that people are being fair in critiquing marvel for dropping the ball over and over again. He just seems to butthurt, like actually emotional.
I have to be honest. I agree. Tim has always seen any MCU film has brilliant and better than alot of other films in general. Don't get me wrong, I get the subjectivity. But in this particular podcast, the impression I got from him (just my opinion), is that he KNOWS the quality hasn't been good for the most part and rather than admit that, he actually blames audience members for fair critiques and wanting better quality. I also get the impression he values continuity above quality. Nothing against Tim as a person, just that's the impression I got with this podcast and with his past opinons on how MCU films are (by default) better than alot of other movies.
I think they should recast Kang and write him to be a Young Avengers villain. Considering we’ve seen Antman beat him, it was already underwhelming for avengers to face him and having a new team of younger heroes take him on is more interesting.
There was no culmination movie for phase 4 and it needed it. It needed an Avengers movie. Having all these new characters finally interact with one another might have really brought the phase up it my book.
48:58 its gonna be a little funny when they do the Spider-man rewatch so they realize how terrible Spider-Man no way home was outside of all the gimmick.
Easy fix: double down on being Loki season 2 the end of the Kang threat, have one of the new multiverses be X-men-centered (see recent post-credit scenes), rebrand Avengers - Kang Dynasty as Avengers vs X-Men and let this be the equivalent to Jonathan Hickman‘s Time Runs Out finale that had the comics-616 fight against the ultimate universe comics-1610 and THEN the next movie is secret wars.
HARD disagree with Greg on the star power. They need better WRITING. Granted, not a fan of Brie as Captain Marvel either. She seems like she hates the role. 55:05 I was right there with you Greg. 😄 As for who’d recast as Kang? Kaluuya
My family quit doing gifts for eachother. There are 8 of us so what we decided to do was do something charitable or some sort of service or volunteer work. We only buy gifts for the kids now
They’ll recast but people when they hear the name Kang or see a new actor as the character will think of Majors the fact it’s been reported they’re internally referring to Kang Dynasty as Avengers 5 now tells me they will pivot to a new primary villain and I think that will be Doctor Doom
@@MoosebreathMan65 100%. Denzel would bring a level of age & expertise to the roll that majors couldn’t. Especially with the avengers team being younger. He could add that to the intimation factor. Would be very interesting
FINALLY! Somebody mentioned the giant hand emerging from the ocean in Eternals! Thank you Greg! I've been waiting forever for it to be acknowledged in the MCU.
32:00 Tim: "We had 20 years of bad X-Men movies" - I guess X2, First Class, Days of Future Past, Deadpool and Logan don't exist and don't count. Marvel Studios wishes it could make a film as good as those aforementioned five nowadays.
It’s as if you should release movies about characters you’re trying to build every 2-3 years, not 4-6 with a whole bunch of other characters in between
What’s Nick’s issue with the Starbucks gift card and his account? I always just load them in and merge to my main card and delete the extra gift card when it gives the option.
I think people care way too much about this movie stuff. If a movie comes out and it’s great, fantastic. If it comes out and it bad, oh well. People seem to make liking these movies their identity, like chill out.
I don't want the villain to be Doom. He is the main villain for the Fantastic Four. If the entire Avengers team and let's be honest the B and C team need to get together to beat him you can never have him go up against the F4. It takes all the Earth's mightiest heroes to beat him and now he's getting spanked by the F4 it doesn't make sense.
Gift cards I am generally not a fan of except in one instance. If you know someone is into something that you are unfamiliar with or don't know exactly what they need or want for a gift related to their particular hobby, giving them a gift card with a note of the intention for the card is the way to go.
I don't think people are "too simple minded" to enjoy the MCU. They don't know what they're doing as far story goes. I hate to say it, but the MCU has drastically dropped in writing quality. It shows. I would love for Dr. Doom to be this amazing villain, but I really don't think that will happen with the current writing teams they have. They're making changes just to make changes and not focusing on story. Look at Blade. They wanted a Blade movie that didn't focus on Blade. The early movies focused on each character, built them up to where we love them. Iron Man was never supposed to be a A superhero, but they built that character in the writing room. The new movies do not do that. They expect you to already love these character even though we don't know them. On another hand, It would be nice to see more gritty superheroes like Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Punisher, Deadpool, Blade take center stage. This could be the "dark side" of the MCU, and we can also have the more light-hearted side of the MCU.
Just fyi the 3rd degree reckless assault charge in NY just means that he wasn't intentionally assaulting her but that his actions were reckless and caused harm to her, while the two heavier charges were dropped. I honestly wish they would have made this decision earlier, there was enough evidence to know he was going to get charged of something minor so if they were going to drop him if anything stuck then there was no reason to wait. I dgaf about Majors so recast Kang, there are plenty of good actors that can fill those shoes and they've set up that variants can look different.
@@Alex_Logan22 Actually there were a few alien variants that they didn't make look like Majors at all. There was the blue variant yelling in the stands and one you can see that was green with a crazy mouth a few rows down. Sure a large portion of them do look like him but when you're setting up that there are an infinite amount of variants it can be easily written away that the variants who looked like him were the in the minority of what the variants generally look like
100% agree with Tim on this! The idea of pivoting to Doom sounds like fan nonsense. It’s like removing Thanos after Avengers 1 and pivoting to Magneto (a character from another comic entirely). They should recast and double down on making people like Greg actually care about the Multiverse Saga. I will continue to argue that people have judged phase 4 & 5 on phase 3 expectations. I can’t argue as to whether people think the phases have worked or not, that’s subjective, but the idea that the story they were telling has no merit and should just be scrapped is somehow admitting defeat. The goal needs to be making people care about this story, period, and I think that should be the goal of this pause.
Yeah this conversation wasn’t nuanced enough for me. Hated the insensitive comments and humor intertwined with such a serious topic. Think I’m gonna skip the rest of this episode, as Kinda funny has been rubbing me the wrong way lately.
This MCU discussion is so cathartic for me. A lot of stuff that I’ve been thinking about ever since Covid really messed with the schedule among other things.
Ive enjoyed their marvel deep dive theory crafting podcasts on what they want to see vs what they think will happen. They've done some of it during and at the ends of the in review episodes, but having these stand alone marvel discussions is cool. that New Rockstars guy is also a great add-in for the theory crafting and lore discussions as well
I think it’s the easiest possible role to recast cause it can just be a variant. If you want it to make sense within the universe. Otherwise just recast and don’t mention it. He’s been in some stuff true but I don’t feel like we’re really attached to him yet. 🤷♂️
I say Marvel should take a qhole year off. Regroup, get you shit together, and make a plan, not just a release schedule. I 100% agree with time on the lack of plannning with the Star Wars Trilogy.
It's interesting listening to this because it seems like nobody knows what they actually want. Being annoyed about all of the spinoff shows and new characters we don't know, but then saying "I didn't care about Captain America until I did" is kinda the point. A lot of the Marvel movies weren't that successful until you get to the big crossover and you see that character with all the established characters and it makes you want to go back and watch what you missed. That's how Marvel has worked for years. You think Loki is cool? You wanna see more of him? Well you can see him in the Thor movie we made already, and we're making another Thor with more Loki. I don't really care about anything they've made since Endgame. It all feels like the same homogeneous soup, with very little originality, and the multiverse doesn't help because it removes all stakes and drives up the power creep exponentially. I'm mostly waiting for the big crossover movie, and if it's any good, then I'll look at what they made for the characters I actually like.
When it comes to gift cards it depends on the type. Gift cards that are for a whole experience like a round of golf or a tour or something are fine. Food is ok as a secondary gift. The prepaid cash to things like Best Buy or Amazon are trash,
Will never cease to amaze me how quick people are to decry 'cancel culture' over an abuser facing consequences for their actions. If your first instinct is to play devil's advocate for the mediocre, millionaire actor regardless of legal proceedings, you should really do some self-reflection
As a bit of an outsider I think they are doing way too much (Disney), it just dillutes the whole thing, and I think modern audiences have largely moven on and or dont care, not as much anyway.
I think Tim’s got it wrong about multiverses being the coolest thing ever. Narratively a multiverse is a terribly unwieldy concept. It sounds cool, and it makes for a fun one off, but it’s completely unrelatable and unsustainable as it gets explored in more detail.
I will say though, I appreciate pretty much everything else he said. His way of viewing the future in a positive light is very nice to have in the discussion.
Agree. Everything Everywhere All At Once did it pretty well though.
@@SuperfiveGPbecause it set it up and finished it around a character-driven the story. The MCU is current a concept-driven story featuring these characters as pawns to move the story forward at a snails pace
A multiverse is no different than a regular timeline. It's just characters. Across the Spiderverse gives you 5 or 6 different versions of the same spiderman type character that all stand as their own thing.
The multiverse is a necessity. It only exists to be a convenient way for Marvel to introduce the characters that have been coexisting during the same time but chained up to other studios.
i generally agree, and multiverses, like time-travel, have that issue where stakes and lives can mean nothnig if there's countless versions of the same character, or if everything can be undone and fixed, however like others have said, rare exceptions like the *Spider-Verse* films & *Everything Everywhere All At Once* buck that trend and do some spectacular things with the concept.
I respect the opinions of KF. I honestly think before you say Eff someone and he should face jail time maybe do some research on the charges. He wasn’t charged with beating her and intentional harm. The 3rd degree charge is for reckless inflict based on getting her off of him and tryin to place her in the vehicle. Let’s not throw stones and hide our hands. I would want to appeal and redeem myself if ever in a horrible situation. Jonathan Majors is an amazing actor.
Facts, I love KF but it’s things like this that show why the company isn’t growing at the rate it should’ve been years ago
nah let them destroy themselves.
Follow up: I am never trying to bash anyone or bring about division amongst any community. I served 20 years and 21 days in the Air Force and honorably retired effective 1 Dec of this year. My background is not game journalism, but I still feel we all have opinions and they should be respected. Although an opinion may differ, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. This cancel culture cancer needs to be dealt with. We can have different opinions and still be friends. As part of your opening monologue on games daily, you have you’re wrong and etc. if this was the topic of conversation; why not research the charges? Why not have someone of color who maybe can speak to how these issues affect us and how we move around and conduct business. It doesn’t need to be a race issue, but do you all believe that if someone regardless of gender takes your property and assaults you; do you not have the right to defend yourself? New York also has a law for self defense. Again, have real conversations. Nick saying he isn’t a great actor is his opinion, but I would ask Nick has he viewed him in other projects? Lovecraft Country on MAX? Again, just some things I wish I could have seen in this episode. The same care and thought that you all put into game journalism and reporting. Love, Care, and Research.
@@Ragucci25yet, you keep watching?
@@j3t617 ironically clicked to unsub
Greg not getting his parents anything is SUCH only-child energy.
Lol nah that's just Greg. My wife is an only child and still goes all out for her mom. I'm the oldest of 6 and I wouldn't gift my parents anything if my wife didn't insist
As an only child myself, I agree haha
Nick was quick with the Hairless Styles jokes 😂
Tim, as one Tim to another, it's the quality straight up. I know you say it's not that different from Phase 1 and 2 but it really is. Marvel had more consistency back the. The issue is two fold:
1. Rather than having 2-3 duds per phase, now there are 2-3 good shows/movies. Good quality offerings have become the exception rather than the rule.
2. There is no clear vision with a lack of a storyline the mainstream can latch onto.
Part of the crew was right, you are missing the heavy hitters and while I agree that Cap and Iron Man were B list that became A list, it doesn't matter if people don't like the character. Those roles shined because the actors brought life to them and made people fall in love with Downey, before they even realized he was Tony Stark.
But it's not just the heroes I am taking about, the villains too. Nobody cares in the mainstream about Kang and they have done a poor job of setting him up frankly. People want that excitement that comes from something they are familiar with, like a F4 or X-men and right now there is nothing to be excited about. Why salvage the pieces of Kang and the Multiversus when you have Doom, Magneto, Apocalypse, Galactus now? They just need to get back on track because I disagree, I don't think it's the audience's demand or fatigue that makes these projects not hit like they used to. It's the lack of vision and quality we lost shortly after going to streaming. The MCU used to be an event because the quality was there, it was a premium experience. Now, with both that an Star Wars (with a few exceptions) it's just another mediocre project with bad CGI, bad writing, poor acting, and absolutely no reason to put up with it in favor of building to something greater.
...did it have more consistency? If we pull out the movies from Phase 2 and take a look at them:
- Iron Man 3 is widely considered to be the worst of the trilogy, it switched directors and suffered for it. The only thing in this movie that even mattered moving forward was that kid having that 12 second cameo in Endgame.
- Thor: The Dark World is widely considered to also suck, as did the first Thor movie. The character was such a mess they had to completely reboot how they viewed up with Ragnarok and give him a 4th movie to make up for it.
- Captain America: The Winter Soldier was great, I don't think that's at all contested. It is worth noting that Black Widow was like half a character up until this movie.
- Guardians of the Galaxy was a shocker hit, taking a bunch of characters nobody knew and making it into something magical. This movie also lead absolutely nowhere with the introduction of the Infinity Stones until it magically did lead somewhere...4 years later. None of these characters interacted, spoke of, or were even in the same galaxy (except for the 5 minute intro to this movie) of the MCU at large until Infinity war.
- Avengers: Age of Ultron...don't people usually say this is the weakest Avengers movie? I don't know, but most of this movie means nothing in the actual story they were building. The only two things were the introduction of Vision, which wasn't even clear until later, and the 5 second last minute Thanos post-credits scene. I don't really think people were excited about Ultron and left the movie being happy they saw that story depicted.
- Ant-Man, which...is a cute fun side movie? Nobody was singing the praises of the first two movies before Quantumania, and they certainly were just blips in the MCU story.
You could probably pull out a cross examination and do the same thing for Phases 1 & 3. So, in conclusion, we've got 2 movies people seem to widely dislike. There's an Avengers movie that is the weakest of the pack so far and a cute fun Ant-Man movie (which nobody even saw, really). A surprise hit in Guardians of the Galaxy, and then a great Captain America movie. That's 2 bad, 2 middling, and 2 great out of a total of 6. That feels like a very mixed bag in both vision and quality, at least to me. I don't see any through line in most of these projects that wasn't added on after the fact (aka., Dark World, Age of Ultron, and GotG featuring Infinity Stones).
I agree with some of what you're saying, but Tim is absolutely right that everyone has rose tinted glasses for the entire MCU post-Endgame. That entire "the whole MCU built up to Endgame" thing is a complete lie, they cobbled together that concept at the last minute. At no point were they writing an Avengers story about Ultron and thinking about how this is going to lead up to Thanos trying to steal the Infinity Stones and wipe out half of all life. That's because it didn't, you could very validly argue that they wasted an entire Avengers movie on a villain and plot that nobody cared about and nobody wanted that lead nowhere. The quantity of releases (via the shows) increasing and therefore increasing the ratio of middling/bad projects to good ones is really just to the point. The demand got out of control and they put out so much that now the ratio is wildly off and we're forced to spend time on nonsense stories to help fill that demand.
EDIT: Also, speaking of Star Wars, the same rose tinted glasses thing applies just as well to that. The prequels were criticized endlessly for being awful abominations to the franchise that were too CG-heavy and a complete mess. Going even further back, George Lucas had absolutely no idea what he was doing during the original trilogy and a lot of it was made up on the fly. There was no plan, otherwise he wouldn't have accidentally put an incestual kiss and a weird love triangle with Luke and his sister into the central plot of the movies.
Agreed. Tim saying the quality is there is ridiculous.
1:15:53 Nick's Joe/small screens joke, Greg folding the laptop, and Tim facepalming has me bringing "ROFLcopter" back 🤣🚁
Doom deserves more than to be a backup for Kang, he’s easily the best villain Marvel has in their roster
I am not familiar with his back story. Would it be difficult to introduce Doom now with minimal setup and background? could they make it work?
Except for the fact that he’s only ever been good in the comics…. He’s never had a good video game appearance, tv appearance, movie appearance, and yet everyone marvel Stan screams he’s the gold standard. You do realize he is literally the blank slate that other villians were created on, right? And I would add that until 2015, no one took dr doom seriously as a “serious” villain, he’s always been cool and popular, but he’s nothing in comparison to Kang, Thanos, Green Gonlin, Kingpin, The Magus, I could go on and on about comic book characters that saved the genre while Fantastic 4 and Dr doom were killing marvel
@@sams-pg7hj Secret Wars was, at its heart, a Dr. Doom story. But it’s supposed to be the LAST Doctor Doom story. Marvel could introduce him now but they’d essentially blow their best villain on one movie with no buildup whatsoever. It’d be a bad call
@@cam4748exactly, when did secret wars come out again, 2015, when did I say people cared about doom, 2015. Weeks and weeks of your stupidity dude. You don’t understand basic grammar do you?
Kang was clearly the Loki, to Dr. Doom, Thanos
I'm the opposite of Tim, I think the multiverse stuff is the least cool thing. It makes nothing matter b/c you can just pull up infinite amounts of the same characters from another universe.
From what I understood Feige lost a lot of creative power when the new CEO took over in 2019-2020. He appointed his right hand man (an accountant or something a long those lines) as a chief creative executive and thats where the quality of shows kinda dipped. Now that Iger is back as CEO and gave back the creators their power back, Feige is kinda doing a soft reboot and we should see some quality media (hopefuly lol)
Which is crazy to think that anyone with knowledge of what was going on in the early years of the MCU would take any power away from Fiege because we know things didn't become what we loved until the got rid of people who kept getting in the way.
Exactly. The weakest moments in MCU history were when Feige had limited control because of people over him: phase 2 with Ike Perlmutter and the creative committee and now phase 4 and the pandemic era with Chapek and his terrible decisions that led to him getting fired.
Dude Tim talked a lot 😂
It only took five movies until avengers. Gonna have to disagree with the “we’re more impatient now” it shouldn’t take 12+ movies and 20+ projects for a single avengers movie to come out. We haven’t had a single team up movie since endgame. Spider-Man was awesome but it still wasn’t the different characters from the different movies team up
Nick was on FIRE this episode😂
I see people in the comments trying to make hey over Majors guilt or innocence and all sides are missing the point where Disney is concerned: it DOESN’T matter if he is “actually” guilty or not, its about perception, controversy and how does it reflect on the bottom line. The man getting a conviction of any kind from all this makes him staying viable in the MCU a moot point. As boneheaded as WB were about not saying anything regarding Ezra Millers conviction the same thing that’s happening to Majors happened to Miller, the minute there was a conviction they were pushed out of the franchise, period. The problem is that WB sat on The Flash for so long it came out post conviction so it felt like Miller was somehow getting a pass when they weren’t.
Andy and Greg trying to out-virtue signal each other at the beginning lmao. Clearly you guys haven't been following this case even slightly. In no way did Jonathan Majors "beat up on people", and I don't even care about the guy or if he was fired. That's just factually not what the charges were.
Nobody says virtue signaling except right wing red pill pipeline clowns. It's always good to say there is a real human story behind this before you talk about how it sucks a movie lost its actor.
Agree with Tim on the state of the MCU but do feel quality has dipped due to the volume of projects. Also I feel people were saying that they should do Doom/Galactus instead of Thanos as he had just been sitting in his chair not doing anything. Then Infinity War hype started suddenly there was hype for Thanos
Thanos was just lucky to have so many Avengers coming together for the first time.
YES!! THANK YOU! Everyone has rose tinted glasses about the first 3 phases of the MCU. Technically current day MCU Is exactly where Thor 2 landed in the phase 2 timeline and the scope of the 3 phase story they were telling. At the time between Avengers and GotG no one was that excited about Thanos because his part of the story hadn’t truly come up yet. I think we have a similar situation with Kang. Even with Quantumania we still have not met or experienced Kangs full arc as a villain. I swear as a comic fan for decades I have heard these same complaints about the MCU going back to phase 1 and 2. Infinity War and Endgame have sadly crowded out the reality of what the MCU has been doing from day one.
@@langleymneely
Yea, the first Avengers teased Thanos without really following through on it till many years later. Kang and the multiverse meanwhile is being established much better than Thanos and the stones were at this point across the 3 phases of their respective sagas.
@@langleymneelyno, it’s not rose tinted glasses, the last few years of Marvel has been awful
The audience hasn't changed. Marvel has.
We don't expect rapid fire payoffs but, each and everything in phase 4 and 5 have just been world/universe ending threats will obvious setups. We're tired of always teeing up, but never getting to swing.
You can only jingle the keys for so long.
who is Tim talking about when he says everyone is enjoying the new MCU movies/shows
Idk 😂
Himself and the Marvel TH-camrs he gets for shows lol
I think gift cards are fine, but Nick's point about having to often spend more of your own money is usually the crux as to why they are terrible.
We're the magic now lol
Major's performance with Kang in Loki was flawless. Cant believe he said it was the worst he has seen.
Victor Timely was awful, almost unwatchable in Loki 2. I hated that choice for him, whether that was his choice or the director's direction to act that way
@@sams-pg7hj
Your talking about creative choices and not the level of talent in the raw performance. Majors has demonstrated some of the highest talent out of any actor in the MCU.
that makes no sense. He isnt a very good actor if he cant recognize he is making a terrible acting choice in scenes
@@sams-pg7hj
Every choice fit each variant.
It sure as hell wasn’t flawless
Greg going with the headline type PC safe take. We dont know all the evidence and jury judgment isnt always fair either. But based on images with show minor marks..no beating and that surveillance video. You can see he was having to be rough to get her off of him as he was escaping her.
Other celebs have done worse and or show more character flaws and no firing. DC, think about rdj past of many arrest but no jail time.
Yeah, but RDJ wasnt hurting his partner, he was hurting himself.
@@lilgimpboy well who knows cause addiction hurts others. But physically speaking, majors seemed to have caused harm yes, but from that footage and the minimal damage. It was to get away from her and her clutching onto him. Can't do a simple walk away. She ran after dude when he got her off him. He first tried from the car and then outside. This isn't an excuse or a great defense, but if he wanted to actually assault/attack she'd be worse off. Which luckily wasn't the case for either of them. He was pushing and then also having to pull her off him. So yeah she got some discoloration from those altercations. Not saying he's not flawed but this doesn't scream assault imo. He didnf beat her. She also seems unwell mentally. Based on footage and recordings from their home. Some of which she recorded herself. So being found guilty of what seems self defense seems odd to me. If anyone keeps grabbing you, no way you just be okay with it. If people are ..they're lying. Like cops saying no we weren't hurting them..we were just holding onto them and trying to keep them near us.
They should have a seen in Deadpool 3 where Deadpool and Logan just go on a killing spree of all the Kangs and a funny quip being like “THAT’S who they were afraid of?!”
Thinking about Tims majority ranking system it really doesn't make sense. If 2 people rank a movie 5, and the others rank it 9 & 10, it's ranked a 5. But if the other 2 tanked it 10 & 10 it's suddenly a tie.
Kevi should still be involved in tie situations/ in rankings in general
@@CheefChaos the tie wasn't really the point it's how the votes are not evened out. Half the group could think it's a bad movie but it can still be ranked pretty high.
Tim not making sense is the norm
Majors didn’t beat up his girlfriend, he injured her while trying to get his phone back.
His lawyers definitely failed him. He should have just stated what happened from the beginning and come clean to injuring her whilst trying to get back his property.
There’s a whole video of the incident where after they got out the car she chased him down.
To me, it sounded like a toxic relationship.
His ex having injuries from taking a person’s possessions without permission used that to clearly get revenge on him because he was a rising star.
Must be lovely to be the Flash all those charges and still made the movie lmaooooo This Is America
Listening to KF talk about Marvel movies is so strange. In this podcast they were extremely critical of the recent era of MCU movies, but during the reviews for each of those movies/shows they discuss them like they're one of the greatest things they've ever seen. It's amazing what happens when they've taken some time to actually think about these things.
Recast. Denzel Washington as Prime Kang who kills all the Variants and wins the Multiversal War with Alioth before it even begins, then the next Avengers films can be Prime Kang gunning for Loki's throne, prompting thr TVA to assemble a Multiversal Avengers to protect Loki.
Poor Joey lol. Denzel in the MCU would be dope though. Hope you all have a great holiday! 🤍
Marvel’s X-Men will obviously be going for the 90’s Jim Lee designs, that’s why people are so excited, cause they’ll finally feel authentic, regardless of how “good” it’ll be. Deadpool was the only part of Fox’s movies that felt authentic, which is why he’s the only one not being changed. But Kang/multiverse stuff was obviously being set up for a gigantic crossover movie, the biggest one yet, that has been established to the mainstream far better than X-Men plans, which has been at a crossroads of mix messaging between authentic designs and actors who played them from unauthentic movies (due to legal limitations). The mainstream doesn’t understand yet if they’re bringing over Fox’s characters, starting whole new ones, or a mix, but they did understand how Secret Wars was going to be batshit crazy with Jonathan Majors at the center of it.
I think if the current slate was successful Majors would not be getting the boot. This feels like Marvel took this as an opportunity to shift plans without criticism over their road map.
I think we need more No Way Home-level movies to keep this thing going. The lows might not be quite as low, but there's very little to be excited about. It's all been very middling.
So Tim is just gonna rebuttal every point with “well even phase 2 and 3 had mid movies” “well, even we didn’t give a shit about Captain America at first”
Sigh, I hate when Tim goes full fanboy and keeps revising history to make his point sound better. But it doesn’t.
It’s all true though.
@@Alex_Logan22 I disagree. We’re past all that. They may as well just reboot the whole thing if they’re going to keep treating the viewers like they need these mindless introductions to characters and have them all be so bad, regardless of criticism. Their approach to a clean slate is just so strange when Civil War and Endgame are extremely watered-down versions of their comic counterparts. I really think if they want to have these smaller-scale movies, fine, but base them off of popular comic runs and just have them be great in isolation until deciding to bring them together. Or, to me, the more interesting approach would be to just add characters and stop treating it like every character needs it’s own franchise - can just do that after.
@@paddington2063
None of what you said clashes with what Tim said.
@@Alex_Logan22 yes it does. What Tim says is a justification for why phase 4 sucks, when phases 2 and 3 had many more movies with characters we already love, doing things cool and doing them together -- phase 4 has basically none of that and its ALL mid movies.
The multiverse stuff kinda sucks. Maybe pivot to Avengers vs Xmen as the next big thing.
I think Marvel is so lucky they have the perfect opportunity to spin this. Loki is how you fix this, at the end of season 2 we have a few characters talking about how pur reality dealt with theirs Kang, well we just have the TVA, withbthe help of Loki take care of Kang. Simple and tonthe point, have some appearances from the TVA members on other movies explaining how busy they are dealing with this Kang menace.
And since they are dealing with the smartest man ever they can use that as an excuse to introduce Dr Doom as our big multiverse baddie. And theybcan even but a cool twist on this bad boy instead of having to deal with all the Dr Doom what if our Dr Doom wants to get rid of ALL the other Dooms, the Secret War...
Well thats my two cents
Yup, Loki god of stories could literally rewrite the MCU or they could just do Secret Wars.
They started the podcast so seriously and hit the ground running only to end in a massive clusterfuck. Classic episode
Lmao “somebody here likes tiny little screens” 💀 yall better get Joey a nice Starbucks gift card for that
Also, people criticizing Marvel for the quality is forgetting that Sony is still making superhero movies for some reason.
Not to defend Jonathan but it’s really awkward to see Greg immediately throw him under the bus without any research or analysis/discussion into that part of the topic, which is just as worthy of discourse as the Marvel side of it.
Disney plus is the worst thing that could’ve ever happened to the MCU franchise.
I think people are going to be burnt out on multiverse stuff because consequences feel inconsequential if there's another version of a character in some other universe.
If we stick with the multiverse, it would be cool to retcon/reset some things w Loki 2 that didn't live up to the potential of the comics (ex Skrulls and Secret Invasion).
We are not too "simple minded" for not enjoying the current slate of mcu. Tim is acting like if we just get to the end of the phase we'll see what theyve been building towards. Theres no chance they can salvage any of this. If we dont enjoy the ride, we won't enjoy the conclusion.
Agreed. There are so many unknowns or contradictions about the multiverse, alot of promise and teasing that has not paid off. Also the multiverse as marvel frames it is quite simple, it just hasn't been done well or followed and established rules consistently enough to get people engaged with what they are trying to do
@@sams-pg7hj There's just no sense of this going anywhere. There's a dozen possible threads to follow that don't really connect, and it feels like the best case scenario is we just end phase 6 by putting all these disparate characters/teams in a tournament style arena. Which I guess is their intention with secret wars. But it just feels like smash bros at that point where it doesn't matter that none of those characters interacted beforehand.
Replying to myself because I want to speculate more. It really is the best case scenario that Secret Wars is just a hodgepodge of every marvel property film series popping up for a tournament. All the Spiderman, all the X-Men, both Blades, both Daredevils, every Hulk, both Fantastic Four teams, whatever they can get their hands on. Just make it a dumb cage match so we can walk into it without having to care about the plot since at this point it's pretty hard to see how they can regain a sense of narrative.
You are simple minded😂
Not true. That's why Endgame has been seen and made more money than any other MCU movie leading up to it
The problem with this phase was there wasn’t any great movies to cover up for the average ones. It needed a great team up movie .
MCU post-Endgame is just a mess
Absolutely! Avengers 5 should've been a nice intro for our new characters to meet. Now they're all going to meet at the same time as all the universes colliding. So why should we even care. We won't care if the the bonds aren't established first.
I know Tim is very knowledgeable and passionate about the marvel movies but I have to disagree that pound for pound it’s as good as ever. We haven’t had this much mid since phase two. Phase one was tight, 5 movies then the flippin avengers. Phase 3 was an all timer of course and pound for pound, movie for movie there’s way to many highs and lows in phase 4 and phase five is off to the worst start yet, one outta three was good so far and that’s not even counting the wave of disconnected mid that is the shows. There was literally no avengers type get together in phase 4 or even slated for phase 5.
Tim’s opinion: marvel isn’t in a bad a place, fans are just stupid. Really bro?
If Deadpool 3 doesn't kill off the Fox X-Men characters then I'd love Avengers 5 to be Avengers vs X-Men. Btw I appreciate Tim being an MCU defender because there's very few of us left lol
You recast him. That's it, done.
Why is Tim so mad? I'm a little confused lol.
Personally I don't think he can admit the MCU isn't perfect in its quality and is blaming the audience instead.
9 Years? I feel so old 😂
Also I’ve not watched Loki season 2 yet but the fact Kang was already defeated in Ant Man, made him feel weak so I wouldn’t hate just changing it up
majors is innocent
Yea I felt like Greg before I looked into the case, then I realized the only thing he was guilty of was being a black man cheating on a white woman.
Sure, if you ignore him throwing his girlfriend into a car and the text messages and audio that make it clear that he is a controlling and abusive. @@realadelphstar
What ever happend to the vision??? And I am like 99% sure scarlet witch is dead
Tim’s marvel opinions are wild lol
one of the mics (greg's) sounds like it's underwater. something's wrong with the quality.....i noticed it when mike uses it for KFGD post show
I'm sorry, but Tim is delusional when it comes to the post endgame slate. Yes some have been hits, but there's more it was ok and it was bad. And it's not about how many years between seeing the infinity stones compared to the lack of conversation on the hand, it's the amount of content from when that happened to now. It's the fact that Nick Fury in his space station, wasn't alarmed enough by it to come down and set up a base in the palm to study it. It's that the hand coming out of the ocean would have caused a massive tidal wave.
Nick and Tim still stanning Starbucks? smh.
Off topic but I am so sick of people acting like the Infinity Saga was a clear PLANNED progression and Thanos was ALWAYS the end game. It’s just revisionist history. Rewatch Phase 1 and the first half of Phase 2 and you’ll see that there was no plan. Everyone who is interested should read MCU: the Reign of Marvel Studios - it’s elucidating.
Phase 4 and 5 have been messy, but that’s a volume issue so it seems more exacerbated, we had disparate threads for the first 6-7 years of the MCU before they tied together well.
From the time they showed Thanos and the stones, he was the plan. That’s 1 phase building to the team up. 2 full phases of building endgame.
@@EveryTimeIDavid that is simply not true. Whedon put Thanos in there for a fun stinger, once again, read the book if you’d like to learn something.
This hole podcast felt like Tim complaining that people are being fair in critiquing marvel for dropping the ball over and over again.
He just seems to butthurt, like actually emotional.
I have to be honest. I agree. Tim has always seen any MCU film has brilliant and better than alot of other films in general. Don't get me wrong, I get the subjectivity. But in this particular podcast, the impression I got from him (just my opinion), is that he KNOWS the quality hasn't been good for the most part and rather than admit that, he actually blames audience members for fair critiques and wanting better quality. I also get the impression he values continuity above quality.
Nothing against Tim as a person, just that's the impression I got with this podcast and with his past opinons on how MCU films are (by default) better than alot of other movies.
Kang is 0-2... he's lost to Antman... and Loki.... Casuals do NOT fear Kang... move on.
I think they should recast Kang and write him to be a Young Avengers villain. Considering we’ve seen Antman beat him, it was already underwhelming for avengers to face him and having a new team of younger heroes take him on is more interesting.
There was no culmination movie for phase 4 and it needed it. It needed an Avengers movie. Having all these new characters finally interact with one another might have really brought the phase up it my book.
48:58 its gonna be a little funny when they do the Spider-man rewatch so they realize how terrible Spider-Man no way home was outside of all the gimmick.
Easy fix: double down on being Loki season 2 the end of the Kang threat, have one of the new multiverses be X-men-centered (see recent post-credit scenes), rebrand Avengers - Kang Dynasty as Avengers vs X-Men and let this be the equivalent to Jonathan Hickman‘s Time Runs Out finale that had the comics-616 fight against the ultimate universe comics-1610 and THEN the next movie is secret wars.
Drop Kang all together and push Doom forward, the fact that they’ve already changed the title suggests that this
Good job pushing this out early. Get them views boiz
HARD disagree with Greg on the star power. They need better WRITING. Granted, not a fan of Brie as Captain Marvel either. She seems like she hates the role.
55:05 I was right there with you Greg. 😄
As for who’d recast as Kang? Kaluuya
In my head cannon, Andy is just the 4th OG. Such a great time with this group.
Colin will always be the 4th, and losing him, KF’s biggest mistake
My family quit doing gifts for eachother. There are 8 of us so what we decided to do was do something charitable or some sort of service or volunteer work. We only buy gifts for the kids now
They’ll recast but people when they hear the name Kang or see a new actor as the character will think of Majors the fact it’s been reported they’re internally referring to Kang Dynasty as Avengers 5 now tells me they will pivot to a new primary villain and I think that will be Doctor Doom
Tim loves to defend the MCU. Greg is right. The MCU has been borderline terrible since Endgame. It’s disjointed and sloppy
Greg never said the MCU has been borderline terrible though.
Recast. I want to see this multiverse story fleshed out. We have so much time for other story lines. Lets stick to multiverse
Tim Kith shirt 🔥
I hope they just get someone like Denzel to replace Majors because they are too deep into this storyline to not see it through.
@@MoosebreathMan65 100%. Denzel would bring a level of age & expertise to the roll that majors couldn’t. Especially with the avengers team being younger. He could add that to the intimation factor. Would be very interesting
FINALLY! Somebody mentioned the giant hand emerging from the ocean in Eternals! Thank you Greg! I've been waiting forever for it to be acknowledged in the MCU.
It's a major plot point point/focus in the next captain America. The celestial hand is where adamantiun is going to come from.
It was mentioned in SHE-Hulk but at this point, the Earth in the MCU has already seen the Avengers, Robots, Aliens, Gods Etc. lol
32:00 Tim: "We had 20 years of bad X-Men movies" - I guess X2, First Class, Days of Future Past, Deadpool and Logan don't exist and don't count. Marvel Studios wishes it could make a film as good as those aforementioned five nowadays.
It’s as if you should release movies about characters you’re trying to build every 2-3 years, not 4-6 with a whole bunch of other characters in between
What’s Nick’s issue with the Starbucks gift card and his account? I always just load them in and merge to my main card and delete the extra gift card when it gives the option.
Kang isn't a great villain he has been defeated twice and nothing terrifying like Thanos
I'm actually shocked. A rare appearance of the actual kinda funny crew
I need to ask, is 49 minutes in a new record for finishing the intro?
I think people care way too much about this movie stuff. If a movie comes out and it’s great, fantastic. If it comes out and it bad, oh well. People seem to make liking these movies their identity, like chill out.
I don't want the villain to be Doom. He is the main villain for the Fantastic Four. If the entire Avengers team and let's be honest the B and C team need to get together to beat him you can never have him go up against the F4. It takes all the Earth's mightiest heroes to beat him and now he's getting spanked by the F4 it doesn't make sense.
Don't focus on a new villain, just recast who cares. Jonathan Majors sucked as an actor anyway
Gift cards I am generally not a fan of except in one instance. If you know someone is into something that you are unfamiliar with or don't know exactly what they need or want for a gift related to their particular hobby, giving them a gift card with a note of the intention for the card is the way to go.
Ill take all of the Games Workshop gift cards
Andy looks as tall as Greg, way taller than Nick.....😅
Banger episode, thanks dudes! Have a good holiday!
I don't think people are "too simple minded" to enjoy the MCU. They don't know what they're doing as far story goes. I hate to say it, but the MCU has drastically dropped in writing quality. It shows. I would love for Dr. Doom to be this amazing villain, but I really don't think that will happen with the current writing teams they have. They're making changes just to make changes and not focusing on story. Look at Blade. They wanted a Blade movie that didn't focus on Blade.
The early movies focused on each character, built them up to where we love them. Iron Man was never supposed to be a A superhero, but they built that character in the writing room. The new movies do not do that. They expect you to already love these character even though we don't know them.
On another hand, It would be nice to see more gritty superheroes like Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Punisher, Deadpool, Blade take center stage. This could be the "dark side" of the MCU, and we can also have the more light-hearted side of the MCU.
Just fyi the 3rd degree reckless assault charge in NY just means that he wasn't intentionally assaulting her but that his actions were reckless and caused harm to her, while the two heavier charges were dropped. I honestly wish they would have made this decision earlier, there was enough evidence to know he was going to get charged of something minor so if they were going to drop him if anything stuck then there was no reason to wait. I dgaf about Majors so recast Kang, there are plenty of good actors that can fill those shoes and they've set up that variants can look different.
They also setup that Kang variants don’t look different.
@@Alex_Logan22 Actually there were a few alien variants that they didn't make look like Majors at all. There was the blue variant yelling in the stands and one you can see that was green with a crazy mouth a few rows down. Sure a large portion of them do look like him but when you're setting up that there are an infinite amount of variants it can be easily written away that the variants who looked like him were the in the minority of what the variants generally look like
@@_JohnC_
I recall the alien ones looking like him as well, it would have to be a crocodile variant or something.
If they never mentioned Kang again it would be fine. Just move forward
KEITH DAVID AS KANG LETS DO IT
100% agree with Tim on this! The idea of pivoting to Doom sounds like fan nonsense. It’s like removing Thanos after Avengers 1 and pivoting to Magneto (a character from another comic entirely). They should recast and double down on making people like Greg actually care about the Multiverse Saga. I will continue to argue that people have judged phase 4 & 5 on phase 3 expectations. I can’t argue as to whether people think the phases have worked or not, that’s subjective, but the idea that the story they were telling has no merit and should just be scrapped is somehow admitting defeat. The goal needs to be making people care about this story, period, and I think that should be the goal of this pause.
Except Kang has been inconsequential so far, unlike Thanos.
And no, it’s been judged on its own, and it’s been awful
@@Stonehorn is somebody crushing on me? Its ok, you can be honest! This is a safe space! 😜😍
Yeah this conversation wasn’t nuanced enough for me. Hated the insensitive comments and humor intertwined with such a serious topic. Think I’m gonna skip the rest of this episode, as Kinda funny has been rubbing me the wrong way lately.
This MCU discussion is so cathartic for me. A lot of stuff that I’ve been thinking about ever since Covid really messed with the schedule among other things.
Ive enjoyed their marvel deep dive theory crafting podcasts on what they want to see vs what they think will happen. They've done some of it during and at the ends of the in review episodes, but having these stand alone marvel discussions is cool. that New Rockstars guy is also a great add-in for the theory crafting and lore discussions as well
I think it’s the easiest possible role to recast cause it can just be a variant. If you want it to make sense within the universe. Otherwise just recast and don’t mention it. He’s been in some stuff true but I don’t feel like we’re really attached to him yet. 🤷♂️
Dp3 just hits the big red reset button.
I say Marvel should take a qhole year off. Regroup, get you shit together, and make a plan, not just a release schedule. I 100% agree with time on the lack of plannning with the Star Wars Trilogy.
It's interesting listening to this because it seems like nobody knows what they actually want.
Being annoyed about all of the spinoff shows and new characters we don't know, but then saying "I didn't care about Captain America until I did" is kinda the point.
A lot of the Marvel movies weren't that successful until you get to the big crossover and you see that character with all the established characters and it makes you want to go back and watch what you missed. That's how Marvel has worked for years. You think Loki is cool? You wanna see more of him? Well you can see him in the Thor movie we made already, and we're making another Thor with more Loki.
I don't really care about anything they've made since Endgame. It all feels like the same homogeneous soup, with very little originality, and the multiverse doesn't help because it removes all stakes and drives up the power creep exponentially.
I'm mostly waiting for the big crossover movie, and if it's any good, then I'll look at what they made for the characters I actually like.
When it comes to gift cards it depends on the type. Gift cards that are for a whole experience like a round of golf or a tour or something are fine. Food is ok as a secondary gift. The prepaid cash to things like Best Buy or Amazon are trash,
Would love just a phase of X-Men movies. Like after Kang the world becomes a house of M situation and for 2-3 years we get mutant movies/shows
Will never cease to amaze me how quick people are to decry 'cancel culture' over an abuser facing consequences for their actions. If your first instinct is to play devil's advocate for the mediocre, millionaire actor regardless of legal proceedings, you should really do some self-reflection
Fucking thank you. Amen.
Completely agree. Disappointing that people are so quick to defend abusers, especially when accused by multiple people.
Just hire another actor to play a different variant of Kang.
Kinda random, kinda not but are we ever gonna get a boy and the heron review for studio ghibli in review ?
And apologies if that comes off blunt and sounds rude. Just curious especially since i think it would be an incredibly interesting to talk about.
I love when the KF podcast is topical with recent news. Feels like the good old days.
As a bit of an outsider I think they are doing way too much (Disney), it just dillutes the whole thing, and I think modern audiences have largely moven on and or dont care, not as much anyway.