Mr. Pete, thanks for sharing the idea from Ellie! I built one myself, using 1" keystock and 5/8" dowel pins. It's way too heavy, but I was using what I could find. It seems to work well, but I did have to attach the shaft collars to the stem and face them in the lathe to keep them from binding on the nylon spacers. Thank you. You helped save me a bunch of money, and I have a very useful and accurate tool as well.
I made up one of these tramming attachments using the thrust washers. IFor the first time I was able to fairly easy tram in my mill to less than .001 over 16 inches, good enough !!!!!! Thank You
Whenever I tram my mill, I pull the vise and clean the table. Then I can tram in all four coordinate directions. Then it is square on all four axis. Also clean the bottom of my vise.
It’s a little difficult to understand but if the indicator reads the same (needle does not move) across the full width of the table on both sides of the vise the tilt and nod are in perfect tram. Checking at the 12:00 and 6:00 positions will not improve accuracy.
Since you seem to listen to so many negative comments ... I want to add my negative comment ... Stop worrying about the trolls who find fault with almost everything. I subscribe to your channel because I trust your experience and knowledge acquired over your lifetime ... Don't ever forget there is always a different way of doing almost everything ... Many of them Wrong !!! Thanks for sharing ... Stay Safe ..
Good video. A little bit of Bridgeport envy. My model M head doesn't have the worm gear so you have to support the weight with a jack when adjusting the front/back tram.
We just used to use a Verdict stylus gauge fixed to a bent rod with a standard knuckle clamp. On Verdict gauges, the angle of the stylus is adjustable and so is the stem that fits in the knuckle so it could be set so that the dial faced upwards removing the need to turn the gauge to get a better look. Also the end of the stylus is teardrop shaped, this allowed the stylus to more easily skip over the T slots as long as it wasn’t set too low. I’ve never seen any You Tube machinists use Verdict stylus gauges but they made my life so much easier for assorts of operations…I mostly used plunger type clocks for pump/motor alignment out on the block.
I was noodling on the Jacobs chuck issue.... just as you brought it up I was realizing that the runout simply follows the gauge around the arc. That was bout the time the coffee was kicking in.
Not making a traming jig today, but I will be cutting a spur gear using plain indexing as per your video in the archives using a Brown and Sharps indexing head. Wish me luck!
I do not have a tramming tool and I do not need one - as I have a professional milling machine - not some cheap B.P. ! ;) As I see it, when I get round to my 'tramming' video, I guess most people will learn 2 things from it. While the video is in the pipeline, it's a very long pipe!
@@millomweb🥲🥲 A “cheap” Bridgeport that can be accurately trammed in both axis to half a gnats hair and sold for fifty years In the tens of millions all over the world.
I always tram over a precision ground block (gauge block) Mostly because I did not like dragging my indicator point over the table, and into the tee-slots.
@@chattonlad9382 A new brake rotor works great but requires removal of the heavy vise, which is the primary time saving feature of this device. Swinging and rotating the indicator checks both tilt and nod. Simply rotate the arm across the full width of the table to check the nod. If the indicator reads zero across the full width the nod does not need correction.
Hi Mr Pete rich man poor man well theses days if you own a pickup with a V8 your next fill up could be a $100.00 or more . I think if the thrust bearings had .001 play it wouldn't madder the weight of the gauge and pressure from the spring in the gauge would equalize itself from one side to the other side of the table . That's my opinion . Thanks Mr Pete for all the videos. JM
"You fool" ( sorry Sir I couldn't resist ). If you drill with the quill when out of tram you will still get a nice clean hole, it just might not be where you want it. Now if you do the same by raising the knee you might be in a bit of a pickle. And yes great guru, I know you put that in there to see if any one was paying attention. Cheers and thanks for all you do.
@@ellieprice3396 And the hole you drill with the knee - will likely end in disaster ! It's one thing I don't have on my mill - a quill - but at least the universal head doesn't need tramming.
Simply rotate the bar across the full width of the 9 inch table on either side. If the indicator reading stays at zero (does not move) across the table the Y axis (nod) is in perfect tram and does not need to be adjusted.
The bar does not need to be that long. Any length will work as long as the indicator clears the vise on both ends of the table. However, the longer it is the more accurate the tram.
Master I made one from CRS 1×1 square tap two 1/4-20s on the ends. Put ½ reamed hole in the for the shank and purchase two ¼ travel indicators from Shars and ¼ magnets from McMaster-Carr the whole setup was under $30.00. You mention about the X axis had to be perfect forgot demonstrate the calibration of the Y axis. It appears that span of the bar, shank & indicator wider than the table in your video? Normally I use to tram the head with test indicator before I do my work or I know for a fact the head out of tram. Some time ago I seen a Blanchard ground ring with support legs the straddle the vise to tram the head. But yet see one used in a shop. That could be another choice.
To tram the nod with this device. Swing the indicator completely across the table on both sides of the vise. If the needle stays on zero (does not move) the table is in perfect tilt and nod tram. This tool is not designed to check the nod at the 12 and 6 position.
The runout of the chuck makes no difference, neither would the perpendicularity of the drilled holes on the aluminum bar stock for the stem or indicator. The error would follow itself around and cancel out.
No beatings were employed during the making of this video. We did notice that you didn't actually show us how to do it. So maybe you did take a beating ?
But where was the graphic of you beating a dead horse. I laugh every time I see it. And as always, I enjoyed the video and have not criticism of your demonstration.
Not convinced by the demo of error in the chuck not mattering. The offset you introduced with the shim stock was at 90 degrees to the to the two points being checked so of course it would make no difference. Id suggest repeating the checks twice rotating the pin in the chuck by 90 degrees to be certain. It's only one small extra step.
You may not be convinced by the demo, but that doesn't mean that Mr. Pete is wrong! I agree with him. No matter what the geometry of the stuff hanging out off the spindle, it will always sweep a disc that is perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the spindle.
@@briantaylor9266 I just recreated the set up and my original thinking was wrong You and Mr Pete are correct . Seeing things on the flat screen is different than than having my nose twelve off the work
Mr. Pete, thanks for sharing the idea from Ellie! I built one myself, using 1" keystock and 5/8" dowel pins. It's way too heavy, but I was using what I could find. It seems to work well, but I did have to attach the shaft collars to the stem and face them in the lathe to keep them from binding on the nylon spacers.
Thank you. You helped save me a bunch of money, and I have a very useful and accurate tool as well.
👍👍
I made one. It works great.
Mr. Pete, i love you covering the subject exhaustively. And i don't mind having to tram in the head near as much since i made the tool.
I made up one of these tramming attachments using the thrust washers. IFor the first time I was able to fairly easy tram in my mill to less than .001 over 16 inches, good enough !!!!!! Thank You
👍👍👍
Whenever I tram my mill, I pull the vise and clean the table. Then I can tram in all four coordinate directions. Then it is square on all four axis. Also clean the bottom of my vise.
It’s a little difficult to understand but if the indicator reads the same (needle does not move) across the full width of the table on both sides of the vise the tilt and nod are in perfect tram. Checking at the 12:00 and 6:00 positions will not improve accuracy.
Since you seem to listen to so many negative comments ... I want to add my negative comment ... Stop worrying about the trolls who find fault with almost everything. I subscribe to your channel because I trust your experience and knowledge acquired over your lifetime ... Don't ever forget there is always a different way of doing almost everything ... Many of them Wrong !!! Thanks for sharing ... Stay Safe ..
Thanks for your support
great video, like the old days of "Mr Pete". It's what made you famous.
Thanks
Had to laugh again about “taking a beating/lashing”. Great demonstration Mr Pete, thank you !!!
That picture gives a whole new definition to the term "Backlash".
OOOOOOH,salt water that would smart good tips for tramming your Bridgeport, and that is next on my list of purchases thanks for the video🤗😎🤗😎
👍👍
Good video. A little bit of Bridgeport envy. My model M head doesn't have the worm gear so you have to support the weight with a jack when adjusting the front/back tram.
I can appreciate the demonstration I agree with your theory about the chuck
Excellent video I like that 1 I'm to go build on the shop again Thanks for the video
Great video Mr Pete i am going to make one of those
I always learn sooo much from you your a great teacher
Larry
Thanks
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍👀
You are and always will be my favorite teacher. love you Mr. Pete
Thanks
We just used to use a Verdict stylus gauge fixed to a bent rod with a standard knuckle clamp. On Verdict gauges, the angle of the stylus is adjustable and so is the stem that fits in the knuckle so it could be set so that the dial faced upwards removing the need to turn the gauge to get a better look. Also the end of the stylus is teardrop shaped, this allowed the stylus to more easily skip over the T slots as long as it wasn’t set too low. I’ve never seen any You Tube machinists use Verdict stylus gauges but they made my life so much easier for assorts of operations…I mostly used plunger type clocks for pump/motor alignment out on the block.
Thanks
I was noodling on the Jacobs chuck issue.... just as you brought it up I was realizing that the runout simply follows the gauge around the arc. That was bout the time the coffee was kicking in.
lol
Yes, that's a good way of describing it. The only limitation is the run-out of the spindle bearings which hopefully is very low.
Not making a traming jig today, but I will be cutting a spur gear using plain indexing as per your video in the archives using a Brown and Sharps indexing head. Wish me luck!
Good luck
Great demonstration and explanation. Another great video. Thanks!
Thanks for another interesting edutainment video. If I did not already have my own tramming tool I would make one of those.
I do not have a tramming tool and I do not need one - as I have a professional milling machine - not some cheap B.P. ! ;)
As I see it, when I get round to my 'tramming' video, I guess most people will learn 2 things from it. While the video is in the pipeline, it's a very long pipe!
@@millomweb🥲🥲 A “cheap” Bridgeport that can be accurately trammed in both axis to half a gnats hair and sold for fifty years In the tens of millions all over the world.
Great info for everyone. I love the rotating feature, I am going to have to make one. Nice job Lyle
👍👍
Great video Pete very interesting and educational.🙂👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for the video.
I agree with your method 100%. Thanks.
👍👍
Great video. Good information. Thanks.
Another great video filled with advise and wisdom. Take care.
👍👍
Awesome!!!!!
My concern was that in order to make the tram bar the mill would have to already be trammed but I see from the comments that is not true.
Somebody said "YOU FOOL!"
😆
Skeletor has been watching him.
I always tram over a precision ground block (gauge block) Mostly because I did not like dragging my indicator point over the table, and into the tee-slots.
👍👍
I like to use a new brake rotor, or disc, as we call them in the UK.
@@chattonlad9382 A new brake rotor works great but requires removal of the heavy vise, which is the primary time saving feature of this device. Swinging and rotating the indicator checks both tilt and nod. Simply rotate the arm across the full width of the table to check the nod. If the indicator reads zero across the full width the nod does not need correction.
Hi Mr Pete rich man poor man well theses days if you own a pickup with a V8 your next fill up could be a $100.00 or more . I think if the thrust bearings had .001 play it wouldn't madder the weight of the gauge and pressure from the spring in the gauge would equalize itself from one side to the other side of the table . That's my opinion . Thanks Mr Pete for all the videos. JM
I agree
"You fool" ( sorry Sir I couldn't resist ). If you drill with the quill when out of tram you will still get a nice clean hole, it just might not be where you want it. Now if you do the same by raising the knee you might be in a bit of a pickle.
And yes great guru, I know you put that in there to see if any one was paying attention.
Cheers and thanks for all you do.
Well it will start where you want it but it will nor finish where yp\oiu want it.
You will drill a nice oval. Or break the bit. Or both.
The hole you drill with the quill will be at an angle (not perpendicular) to the surface of the parts.
@@ellieprice3396 And the hole you drill with the knee - will likely end in disaster !
It's one thing I don't have on my mill - a quill - but at least the universal head doesn't need tramming.
@@millomweb True, you definitely don’t want to drill a hole with the knee with the head at an angle.
Make the indicator mount from a bolt with a hole bored though it, secure it with a nylon lock nut to preload the thrust bearings.
Traming the head requires adjusting the head both on the X axis and the Y Axis of the table. How do you check the Y axis with that long fixture?
Simply rotate the bar across the full width of the 9 inch table on either side. If the indicator reading stays at zero (does not move) across the table the Y axis (nod) is in perfect tram and does not need to be adjusted.
Good video.
😀
I like using 123 blocks instead of a gauge block. But in the end, you get the same accurate results.
The bar does not need to be that long. Any length will work as long as the indicator clears the vise on both ends of the table. However, the longer it is the more accurate the tram.
Master
I made one from CRS 1×1 square tap two 1/4-20s on the ends. Put ½ reamed hole in the for the shank and purchase two ¼ travel indicators from Shars and ¼ magnets from McMaster-Carr the whole setup was under $30.00. You mention about the X axis had to be perfect forgot demonstrate the calibration of the Y axis. It appears that span of the bar, shank & indicator wider than the table in your video? Normally I use to tram the head with test indicator before I do my work or I know for a fact the head out of tram. Some time ago I seen a Blanchard ground ring with support legs the straddle the vise to tram the head. But yet see one used in a shop. That could be another choice.
👍👍
To tram the nod with this device. Swing the indicator completely across the table on both sides of the vise. If the needle stays on zero (does not move) the table is in perfect tilt and nod tram. This tool is not designed to check the nod at the 12 and 6 position.
The nodding adjustment is really a pain because of where the pivot point is.
What happens if you drill and ream that ally bar with your Bridgeport before it's trammed? If the hole is at an angle will that effect the tram?
No, since the attachment is turning on the spindle bearings the holes drilled at an angle will not affect the accuracy of the tram.
Sounds like you have lots of Monday’s experts watching
Yea
Great video Sir .. but I made a 6” OD x 1” tk 4140 grind it flat on both sides would set on the table and sweep in the head
I use a new car brake disc that I was given by a pal
Thanks for the “tips”, pun intended !
Sometimes that horse needs a little more beating. Great video.
Good morning Sir
So many bad topics out there you better beat a few more to death for us, I'll sit here and watch for more great videos from you.
👍👍
13:30 Of course there is no horse so dead that it can't stand another beating.
but everyone already knew that.
lol
Dag gone it, I done learn'd somethin new.
A poor man would do the work himself. A rich man would delegate the work to others.
And the rich man would learn nothing....sad.
The runout of the chuck makes no difference, neither would the perpendicularity of the drilled holes on the aluminum bar stock for the stem or indicator. The error would follow itself around and cancel out.
👍👍
No beatings were employed during the making of this video.
We did notice that you didn't actually show us how to do it.
So maybe you did take a beating ?
Note to PETA. No animals were harmed during the making of this video! We know you’re out there reading every word and ready to pounce. (:-))
But where was the graphic of you beating a dead horse. I laugh every time I see it. And as always, I enjoyed the video and have not criticism of your demonstration.
👀🚃 👍
That doesn't seem that bad with the traming head you have Instead of twenty one lashes maybe more like five or six.
lol
Procedure? Aka bs.
Not convinced by the demo of error in the chuck not mattering. The offset you introduced with the shim stock was at 90 degrees to the to the two points being checked so of course it would make no difference. Id suggest repeating the checks twice rotating the pin in the chuck by 90 degrees to be certain. It's only one small extra step.
I agree with you
You have to also check ‘nod’ to get that zeroed. That’s all. Bent/out doesn’t matter (until you try to drill a precise hole!)
You may not be convinced by the demo, but that doesn't mean that Mr. Pete is wrong! I agree with him. No matter what the geometry of the stuff hanging out off the spindle, it will always sweep a disc that is perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the spindle.
@@briantaylor9266 Correct, you could use a bent chuck, and you would still get perfect tramming, as long as the spindle is good.
@@briantaylor9266 I just recreated the set up and my original thinking was wrong You and Mr Pete are correct . Seeing things on the flat screen is different than than having my nose twelve off the work
I'm will have to ask Judge Judy if it's okay to make a comment.
lol