That is why we need the strong Open Source competitors to give some reality check for the corporate software. W Godot. Unity really thought the game developers didn't have other choices. Every business competitions are good for the consumers.
For sure. To be all honest, we hate competition in our own field, but we love competition in all other fields and there are way more other fields than our own :).
@@TheErtagon15 I was hyperbolic :). Of course it would be nicer if you could charge your customers more because you were the only one or one of very few actors within a specific market. On the other hand, that situation sucks for the consumer, which you are as well in all other fields than your own.
Unreal engine is open source too and they have cool way of funding. They do it through royalties and it's great because you're not locked out of anything and 5% as royalty is fair for such a powerfull engine.
Actually, the "no logo" option was suggested long ago as a smart marketing option : people who can't afford to pay a license usually don't make the most amazing games, so by forcing them to show the "made with Unity" logo, you end-up creating the perception (among end-users) that "made with Unity" means "cheap crap", and by extension, that Unity itself is crap. Someone suggested it would make more sense for studios to pay to display the Unity logo.
Sometimes Epic won't allow devs to use the Unreal Engine logo. Hatred was forbidden by Epic from using the UE logo in their game because the subject matter (mindless, realistic killing of innocent people) didn't align with their values.
Too late for that. I sometimes see messages in Steam community forums say they instantly dropped interest in a game the moment they saw the Unity logo. It'll take a while before public perception of that logo changes, if at all.
I was a Unity dev for 10 years. I left to Godot after the debacle and won't be turning back (unless I really need AAA rendering for some random project).
"AAA rendering" just screams unreal engine, it's way harder to archieve in unity (without hacking half of the engine and using 1000 weird tricks) Unity is very good for "mid games" when it comes to graphics and is pretty easy to use, but sucks in the "cutting edge graphics" field
@@salatwurzel-4388 I've used Unreal as well and agree it is better on the top end, but prefer Unity just because I've spent so much time on it. Also, AAA for me is AAA from 2015, something Unity can achieve fairly easily nowadays.
We learned from Unity's story that you cannot paywall free services whenever you feel like as long as there is a decent alternative users can flock to.
Paywall isn't really a correct term to use here. The proposed runtime fee wouldn't have blocked anyone from using Unity or limited any features they would have had access to.
It's more like selling hammers to a construction company, then charging the construction company for every person that walks in and out of a building, that the constructon company built with your hammers
@@obazu3727 It ate into already thin developer profits even more. The real issue at the moment is publishers, because they're a middleman that increasingly is less necessary in the modern day, and they really don't contribute much beneficial anymore. They're basically just investors that usually make your project worse and take part of the revenue.
@@ChungusTheLarge Yeah. They probably could have gotten away with 2.5% revshare on new games, had they not tried to pull that shit at the start. Trying to claim it would apply retroactively was also just insane. Now the user base has all the leverage and no goodwill left to not wield it.
It was never a free servicr. It had a free trial they provided to lure you in. They expect you to pay for a license if you're actually using it for something serious.
I've been a Godot user for 4 years and I can easily say it's easier to use in terms of 2D. 3D has gotten better, but still needs more time to cook. I would just say that Godot's workflow is simply faster and (imo) easier to manage once you adjust to its way of doing things. The only thing Unity has an advantage over Godot is all of the options in the asset store. Which means you're going to spend more time programing and building your own stuff, which is probably better for your skills in the long run. I would say it's a great choice if you want a hassle free engine for a small team/ solo project. But it is nice to hear that Unity is adjusting.
Godot was a 2D engine which got 3D shoehorned in. Unity was a 3D engine which got 2D shoehorned in. It's obvious which one is better for what type of game.
@@UMADBRO64 For sure. Jolt 3D is awesome. It's a bummer how jank the vanilla physics are. The project my team are working on began right when 4.0 released in early 2023, and it wasn't until later that we got to use Jolt 3D in 4.2. Which sucked because we had to design so many intial things around the vanilla physics. We will be utilizing Jolt for future projects because it's so much more capable and I hope it gets integrated sooner rather than later. The biggest 3D drawback for me is lack of bone/character animation tools. It is a pain to ping pong back between blender and Godot just to tweak a character's animations.
People will go back and the backlash for whatever fee comes next will be nothing compared to the first. A bunch of “you should have expected this” will mean general acceptance by anyone who isn’t a developer.
You shouldn't have expected this, but you should expect them to keep pushing it again the second everyone turns their back Hopefully the idea that they could retroactively apply the fee like they said they were going to initally going to keeps people away from Unity.
Godot cannot do that actually as its open sourced and licensed under the MIT licence, stop talking out your ass. And you are confusing the word CULT for PASSIONATE developers. Stay in your sinking ship called Unity and stay there.
The developer of Road to Vostok is an absolute madman building a 3D survival extraction shooter with Godot that's better looking than most unity/unreal projects. Dude literally chose the tool he likes instead of the right tool for the job and is proving it can work.
The project seems great overall, but not graphically special in any way. Standard PBR look with low detail density. That's fine though, probably for the better actually. High fidelity graphics is a trap that sinks projects. Regardless, all engines can do static scenes with low detail without breaking a sweat. Unreal can do static scenes with high detail effortlessly too, once it's all loaded in (otherwise you need to put in a lot of effort to avoid steaming stutter). Unity just requires an insane amount of work to get even mediocre performance out of for high fidelity.
There is no right tool for the job. There are better and worse tools, and Godot is actually superior in a few ways compared to Unity, such as project sizes. When you consider that most projects will design their own engine tools for development, your own render pipeline, and probably won't even need the fancy graphics for most projects, Godot really doesn't look bad when you can forgo the licensing fee.
@@bioburden I did like Unity's Shader Graph, but i like that Godot is actually open source I'm actually working on improving security to help fight against `gdsecomp` SRE
Not joking, with my sister we started to learn Godot today. I'm trying to teach her programming, while instilling a love of programming. And man, I must say I wasn't expecting Godot to work this fast and be this effective at all. It's like crazy, so lightweight, I didn't know developing games could be this lightweight and want to learn Godot more, since it also has tools that lets you use Neovim with it, this was just a crazy experience. And about Unity, meeh.
In the time it took Unity to install, I: * discoverd that Godot exists, * downloaded Godot * started fiddling with Godot * looked up documentation for a "How do I do x" * created a simple ball that can bounce and colide with 2D platforms. * debuged an issue By this time, Unity was at 90%. Dont underestimate lightweights
Never worked with Godot but coming from a web developer, I hear that the way game are structured there are similar to how web apps are structured, so the concepts of app architecture could possibly be transferred to other tech jobs. If that didn't make sense, then the main point here really is that Godot is pretty simple to learn compared to other engines.
@@OzzyTheGiant Couldn't disagree more. It _may_ look similiar, but game object lifetime management is *vastly* different than your average web project. Especially reactive code, in no way it is similiar.
@@OzzyTheGiant Yeah my real job is Web Dev, and Godot is really similar to how modern web frameworks work. In Godot, you create scenes (components) and for any feature you want, you add the scenes nodes (HTML tags), and to sculpture your needs, you literally change the values of attributes of these nodes/tags like in web dev. It's just so similar. I think the best feature of Godot that makes game dev so much like web dev is its lightweightness while keeping game development cycle in this structured attitude.
They've shown their hand, they're looking for better optics but the ship isn't changing course. Going public was when I quit using it, acquiring a malware service was when I knew I would never go back.
I see alot of people saying this but giving nothing to back it up. They dropped the runtime fee, fired the ceo who implemented it, removed most the board members who wanted it and got rid of most of the people who came over from the ironsource merger. How is this not evidence of changing course?
I used to be one of the members of their Unity Live Help Experts team. We were making some educational stuff and providing support in various forms but eventually the team got discontinued. Hopefully they can come up with a new platform that can wrangle all the users together now rather than just the discord server and the sparse learning ecosystem.
I liked Unity, but now I like Godot better. Was never interested in buying Unity stock, Wall Street was hype while Unity was shooting itself in its foot and the valuations never remotely made sense
NGL I think we should get rid of public companies. It basically just becomes greed farming and MBA sprawl. I've never seen any company get better by going public.
Execs do what shareholders boards tell them to do. The board make a bad decision, and to walk it back fired some exec who had to do what the board said in the first place. The board wasn't replaced, just a new whipping boy.
unity got riccitiello'd. It's what he did at EA and will likely do the same to the next company he lands on with his golden parachute. All the board wants is money but it's incompetent leadership that inevitably makes the final call to make said money.
@@CarbonCitizenyou do realize that "chairman of the board" holds the same sort of power that "speaker of the House" or "debate moderator" holds, right? They're just there to make sure everyone takes turns speaking and count votes. Sure, that can be a position of power, but they're ultimately democratically elected and, as such, have to answer to their "constituents" (such as they are).
@@mage3690 you do realize the speaker of the house literally sets what bills come to a floor vote? They hold tremendous power. Debate moderators get to choose questions and what direction to favor, another position of power, but admittedly less so. Pointing out the US vice president likely fits what you're trying to say better, relatively impotent in both their executive and senatorial duties. In any case, CEOs aren't powerless pawns.
Yeah, a worker cooperative would work better. Shareholders and boards sre often misaligned with the longterm health of a company and to the workers and consumers.
@@cyberpunkspikekinda.. but it's still cool, have you tried android godot editor its crazy. you could develop the whole game while being on a phone, and even set up git with mgit. idk why but i was fascinated by that
Godot is production ready if you only concern about being able to use works from other team members, you can just use their project inside your project without creating a package. But, if you think lack of collaboration tools is a minus, then Godot isn't production ready.
My main problem with Unity at this point is that they had already made a promise that you could keep your TOS version once before (2019), then deleted that and introduced a retroactive fee last year. After the fallout, they re-introduced the no retroactive changes promise. But considering they already have gone back on that exact promise once before, how can we trust them?
The reason companies and enterprises stick to proprietary software is usually the fact that they can rely on a support department that is built onto the price. You can contact autodesk at any time if you have a blocker on an enterprise subscription and they'll assign a full time CS or support engineer to route your issue internally. It's same reason why companies prefer to pay almost double the price of Dell or apple laptops instead of just buying on retail. I very much doubt that Blender or Godot offers such platform if you're not one of the sponsors that pay people to support the project full-time, like MS does.
The original announcement was so hard on the Unity community. A handful of the largest Unity creators on YT jumped ship. It’s sad to hear prime suggest they want to expand hobbyists because that actually means winning people back that they lost. This whole thing was sadly for nothing.
I'm sure one of the big reasons they did this is because their conference, Unite 2024, is next week and they're going to announce the release/release date of Unity 6 to cap it off. Unity 6 has been in preview since May, slated to release sometime at the end of the year, and most Unity devs, including myself, haven't entertained the thought of using it since doing so would have required you to opt into that runtime fee. Can't have a successful release if no one wants to touch it, even with a 10-ft pole.
Unity: We added a clause that says you can use the old terms of service if you want to. That was in the terms from 2022. Then Unity decided it could legally ignore it.
nah, after that what they pulled, who knows they won't try to implement something similar, something that might have WEAK people thinking, well Unity needs to make their money somehow in these hard times.
I heard Prime talk about someone doing something, upsetting everyone, undoing it and then doing it again being a bit wild and I had to post this. I've seen companies do this a lot. One company does something everyone thinks is horrible, they take the bad press and change course but then when no one is paying attention they just slip it back into place at the same time their competitors do it and everyone acts like things were just always that way.
Primegan his take on Blender seems wrong to me. It is every bit as good as the paid alternatives. Part of the reason is that Blender has tenths (it was around 35 a few years ago) fulltime employees. They get money by selling courses (as Primegan showed) and selling assets, they also get money from sponsors including Tangent Animation, Nimble Collective (Dreamworks animators, not small guys in the industry), AMD, Aleph Objects (3D printer), Valve and many others. They also get hardware from companies like Intel, Dell, AMD and Nvidia. The lesson from this: opensource software can be every bit as good as proprietary software if it adds sufficient value to attract sponsors (which/who depend on that software) and it has a smart monetizing model (tutorials and assets). Note that Blender started as a failed proprietary project, long before it was used to render animations. The Dutch developer of that software decided to opensource it and let the community have a go at it and thus it became the Blender which we know today.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that selects the middle characters within a selection when talking about it. Skip the first and last characters… not only was the video a good watch, it was also very satisfying :D
Peoples spent time to pass different game engines. After waiting a year, they expect people to return. Unity has opened very deep wounds in people's hearts. Going back won't be that easy.
Aside from the community godot is funded by some big names that includes google play and pirate software, also godot's 2d engine now is pretty much similar to unity's 2d engine, godot's strong point is its 2d engine, as for the 3d engine, they recently started bumping up the 3d work and its way better than what it used to be an year ago, if it goes on like this it will catch up to unity with 3d engine too. I don't have plans on being a game dev but i did use godot for a while, even now i plan to use it once in a while if i want to make something for myself and if i ever plan to learn game dev and built something properly i would contribute (monetary)
@20:55; I wouldn't say Perforce is dead; it still exists, it's just been renamed Helix Core. That, and most companies are trying to move away from it for different repos, but my previous experience with moving a codebase from Perforce to Git is that you can get some major problems with Git LFS - especially if you ever need to re-add a LFS file, or update a LFS file.
yea , one guy in chat makes such a ridiculous statement and prime says it for some reason , every big studio in game dev and film production is using perforce , its integrated into unity and unreal , half the studios have wrapped it in an internal "artist friendly" UI sending the p4 commands . maybe less common in indie but perforce excels at handling so many large source art files , git LFS slows to a crawl on big repo with lots of history . i would love for there to be good alternatives that scale .
I don't hate Unity but I do think it's a good thing when these big companies get a reality check because brings them down a peg and lets other game engines take some market share.
It's annoying though, that when some corporations are just way worse (like Google and Microsoft), they don't get any checks. But when others do only a slight changes, they get lot of blame with lot of misinformation and such. I may just suggest that these people are just bots of big tech atm.
As someone that's just retired from a career of software development and thinking of giving game development a try, mainly to learn more about it. I'd consider Unity, 20 years of C# development does make that my preferred language (I do have 15 years of C++ before that, but modern C++ isn't like what I knew). But if I were planning on selling games and growing a company I think it would take some time seeing if they keep their promises before I'd want to bet the company on it.
@@FRanger92 Yup, and I hear Godot is, or has, reworked their C# support making it much better. But I'm mainly interested in 3D games and as I'm not planning on releasing, probably not even finishing any games, I think Unity would be fine for me. Like I say, if I were starting a company it would be a different story.
I would recommend Monogame for C# game dev. It's more of a framework than an engine, but it's an excellent base for anything you would want to build. It's also effectively a continuation of XNA, so if you have any experience with XNA, it's super easy to get started.
The fact that they're doing this is actually a decent sign imo. I've worked at/interacted with plenty of companies where executive management had their heads so far up their @ that there's no way they would revoke a change like this. This tells me they at least have some number of people who are paying attention and are able to explain things to management well enough to hopefully keep them from becoming Adobe.
@@Azazel226 @lowzyyy Its on Internet Archives, google "Random-thoughts-about-Unity" for link. Its not really insight info, just his personal opinions, since he left Unity over 2 years ago. TL;DR Unity until around 2010 has ben steadily developed and had clear goal - Be an engine for small to medium teams. After VC funding, they gathered loads of money and started to divert from them, and eg. go for AAA games with DOTS, go with web dev world, go with SRP with 2 example implementations (URP/HDRP) that accidentally became de facto standard SRP implementations. With stuff like that and terrible management You cannot really hit something while You don't know where are You shooting. Typical try to do everything, be good at nothing.
It's going to take a couple of years or some extra love to repair the damage done. The new CEO and personal pricing / splash screen changes is a great step forward. People love -to hate on- Unity. Let's hope things stay reasonable going forward.
Trust is dead and already fell in love with other game Dev tools and have ported my project to Monogame. It would take something awfully special to convince me back into Unity's ecosystem now.
19:25 The answer is yes. Godot even at the time was already pretty solid and *almost* capable as a full on replacement to Unity. Now I would say it has certainly passed that mark, as evidenced by showcases and the upcoming game Road to Vostok. That project began on Unity, with the developer switching to Godot as a result of the Unity scandal. He has now gone far beyond fully porting what he had already done within Unity. Godot certainly is not perfect, but none of them are, and it has been making incredible strides as of late. Despite being FOSS, it is a very well supported project, even getting donations from larger corporations.
I was looking at Unreal, Unity and Godot for my project back then. Unity ruled out themselves and Unreal felt too big for me. I'm firmly rooted in godot land now and I also love it. I might or might not have success though, but Unity will never ever be a consideration.
When I saw this headline my first thought was: "Didn't they cancel that a year ago?" Maybe not? Huh. Once a business tries to give you the shaft, there's no trusting them from then on. Going public was a bad decision, but then I don't have any trust in public companies either, so... Best thing you can have is an Ironclad license agreement that cannot be changed without both parties consent. And even then? If there's anything else you can use? I'd probably go for it.
Hats off to Unity for removing the splash screen on the personal edition. This is something I've been waiting for for a long time. I've since moved over to Unreal engine but will consider working with Unity again.
It's not necessarily about trust, but if you leave a game engine, and start learning a new one, how much time and cost will this mean, if you spend that time and money... would you go back ? Also i see a new game price increase because of that 25% increase which basically translates to AAA Studios. so the $60-70 games might be affected.
16:53 by lower, do you mean more negative (greater magnitude if you ignore the negative sign)? If so, then you're right. The greater the magnitude of the price elasticity of demand, the more price sensitive consumers are to the good or service, so a larger change in demand will occur (opposite direction of change compared to the change in price)
From my experience and that of my friends and family who are a little more observant than the average, people are just tired of getting screwed. It has always seemed to me that there are rules for people and rules for corporations. If a person downloads 100 movies, that’s piracy. But if a corporation downloads 1,000,000 movies, that’s called “training our AI model.” This can be seen in everything. And it pisses people off. Which is a good thing.
John Riccitiello was the CEO at EA when FIFA introduced loot boxes in 2008. He stayed until 2013, when the board of directors accepted his resignation due to the company's on-going bad financial performance. He became the CEO of Unity Technologies at the end of 2014. He left that position several weeks after the run-time fee was introduced amid controversy, and has since announced his retirement from corporate life. He was just a really shitty CEO. Don't blame Unity, blame John Riccitiello. He also negotiated the sale of Bioware and Pandemic Studios to EA, so you can blame him for only one good Mercenaries game as well.
The runtime fee had to pass through the board of directors and most of them had to go “yeah that seems like a good idea”. There has to be multiple bad eggs, I just can’t see one person unilaterally pulling off something like that.
@@MrMoon-hy6pn Same can be said for EA loot boxes but he was "in charge" for both decisions. That's kinda the whole point of a "Chief Executive Officer." They make decisions that need approval, but they are the one steering the ship.
No. Blame Unity for hiring such a known and failed hack scammer as CEO. Blame John Riccitello for his own actions. Neither companies nor awful people need your sympathies.
You totally should try Godot seriously for some time in the future - just to realize how it is... I literally say its superior to Unity in most aspects I interested in... Also has better overall architecture... The only reason I keep unity on one of my machines is for an AR toy project that I sometimes touch - but that's it... and I wish I could exchange that too with Godot...
They probably wanted to capitalize on the huge games that are already using Unity (such as Hoyoverse). However, problem of tech companies is that when they create something good and become very profitable then they start to attract higher level management that are only leeching off the former success, but only playing company politics, initiating perpetual reorganizations as each new director has to be a "Steve Jobs", and bringing in external consulting companies that sell an idea "10x faster time to market" w/o even knowing what the company is doing and how. Unity has one thing going for it which many open source projects will have hard time providing - multi-platform. However, now it will be more difficult to attract new projects and retain existing ones, as the overall vibe is evaluate the risk of dependency on Unity. I think, some will remain, especially if those are not f2p games.
I just got interested in game dev as this was going on and I chose Godot. Looks like I’ll be using free tools for a while. Already a big user of Blender, LibreOffice, ILovePDF, and DaVinci Resolve. Nice to add another piece of software to the arsenal.
Unity DOTS is the only thing keeping me around. If they somehow fuck that up or bevy has been more developed im out. This whole fiasco has caused me a lot of stress. The fact that they where so fast on pushing the runtime fee but it took them so long to revert those changes is insane. The only positive thing coming out of this is that developers realized Godot exists where the lightweight editor isn't a buggy mess and does not take ages to load. It even managed to get brackeys back from his grave. I don't think it is possible for me to ever trust Unity again. Im just waiting for the right moment to jump the ship.
I was thinking of jumping into Unity's engine as I have been working on making my own game. I did catch up on what stunts they pulled and because of that I decided to go elsewhere.
Really good change, this isnt for people that left but developers like me that wanted to use new version without the stupid fee. Lot of people screaming godot typically havent invested years in unity or never became very efficient with unity.
"Things are going down, things are not going in the right direction. Therefor they have to pivot" This is the risk of continuing to use Unity, they have to pivot. And they only reversed this decision because it was not making them money while also damaging their reputation. So they are now back at square 1 which is...We have to pivot. We don't know what that new "pivot" will be. But it's going to happen. I don't want to use an engine that I know must "pivot" soon.
This is incredibly niche, but I can't switch from Unity because I cobble together stuff for VRChat. As long as VRChat uses Unity, I have to use Unity. I know it's not the same as developing my own games, but it's still frustrating. A microdose of the frustration actual game devs feel, I suppose.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
That is why we need the strong Open Source competitors to give some reality check for the corporate software. W Godot. Unity really thought the game developers didn't have other choices. Every business competitions are good for the consumers.
For sure. To be all honest, we hate competition in our own field, but we love competition in all other fields and there are way more other fields than our own :).
@@krumbergify why do you hate competition in your own field?
@@TheErtagon15 more control over the market
@@TheErtagon15 I was hyperbolic :). Of course it would be nicer if you could charge your customers more because you were the only one or one of very few actors within a specific market. On the other hand, that situation sucks for the consumer, which you are as well in all other fields than your own.
Unreal engine is open source too and they have cool way of funding. They do it through royalties and it's great because you're not locked out of anything and 5% as royalty is fair for such a powerfull engine.
They saw Godot getting adopted like wildfire and shat their VC funded pants.
Godot sucks though, and their community is toxic sludge.
@@cyberpunkspike Godot does not suck, and even if a community is toxic that doesnt change the effectiveness of a tool
@@bofoitakoyaki9859 Godot is kinda meh, I much prefer working with Unity. But gamedev tools overall are quite bad
@@bofoitakoyaki9859Godot is not that good currently
Doubt. I like Unity
Trust takes a lifetime to build, but seconds to destroy.
just like the time it takes to start a project and build it
Deez nuts take a lifetime to build but seconds to get them on your chin.
Rust also takes a lifetime to build. 🙂💛
Actually, the "no logo" option was suggested long ago as a smart marketing option : people who can't afford to pay a license usually don't make the most amazing games, so by forcing them to show the "made with Unity" logo, you end-up creating the perception (among end-users) that "made with Unity" means "cheap crap", and by extension, that Unity itself is crap. Someone suggested it would make more sense for studios to pay to display the Unity logo.
Now its a "Made by a shitty company's game engine" :D
Sometimes Epic won't allow devs to use the Unreal Engine logo. Hatred was forbidden by Epic from using the UE logo in their game because the subject matter (mindless, realistic killing of innocent people) didn't align with their values.
Too late for that. I sometimes see messages in Steam community forums say they instantly dropped interest in a game the moment they saw the Unity logo. It'll take a while before public perception of that logo changes, if at all.
@@FerdinandJosephFernandez that's for sure !
@@RandomGuyyy forgot that was a thing....
I was a Unity dev for 10 years. I left to Godot after the debacle and won't be turning back (unless I really need AAA rendering for some random project).
Unreal?
"AAA rendering" just screams unreal engine, it's way harder to archieve in unity (without hacking half of the engine and using 1000 weird tricks)
Unity is very good for "mid games" when it comes to graphics and is pretty easy to use, but sucks in the "cutting edge graphics" field
@@salatwurzel-4388Ok bro, do you even actually code or you just repeat what other retards said online?
@@salatwurzel-4388honestly cutting edge graphics games usually have a boring gameplay loop.
@@salatwurzel-4388 I've used Unreal as well and agree it is better on the top end, but prefer Unity just because I've spent so much time on it.
Also, AAA for me is AAA from 2015, something Unity can achieve fairly easily nowadays.
We learned from Unity's story that you cannot paywall free services whenever you feel like as long as there is a decent alternative users can flock to.
Paywall isn't really a correct term to use here. The proposed runtime fee wouldn't have blocked anyone from using Unity or limited any features they would have had access to.
It's more like selling hammers to a construction company, then charging the construction company for every person that walks in and out of a building, that the constructon company built with your hammers
@@obazu3727 It ate into already thin developer profits even more. The real issue at the moment is publishers, because they're a middleman that increasingly is less necessary in the modern day, and they really don't contribute much beneficial anymore. They're basically just investors that usually make your project worse and take part of the revenue.
@@ChungusTheLarge Yeah. They probably could have gotten away with 2.5% revshare on new games, had they not tried to pull that shit at the start. Trying to claim it would apply retroactively was also just insane.
Now the user base has all the leverage and no goodwill left to not wield it.
It was never a free servicr. It had a free trial they provided to lure you in. They expect you to pay for a license if you're actually using it for something serious.
I've been a Godot user for 4 years and I can easily say it's easier to use in terms of 2D. 3D has gotten better, but still needs more time to cook. I would just say that Godot's workflow is simply faster and (imo) easier to manage once you adjust to its way of doing things. The only thing Unity has an advantage over Godot is all of the options in the asset store. Which means you're going to spend more time programing and building your own stuff, which is probably better for your skills in the long run.
I would say it's a great choice if you want a hassle free engine for a small team/ solo project. But it is nice to hear that Unity is adjusting.
Godot was a 2D engine which got 3D shoehorned in. Unity was a 3D engine which got 2D shoehorned in. It's obvious which one is better for what type of game.
@@UMADBRO64 For sure. Jolt 3D is awesome. It's a bummer how jank the vanilla physics are. The project my team are working on began right when 4.0 released in early 2023, and it wasn't until later that we got to use Jolt 3D in 4.2. Which sucked because we had to design so many intial things around the vanilla physics.
We will be utilizing Jolt for future projects because it's so much more capable and I hope it gets integrated sooner rather than later.
The biggest 3D drawback for me is lack of bone/character animation tools. It is a pain to ping pong back between blender and Godot just to tweak a character's animations.
People will go back and the backlash for whatever fee comes next will be nothing compared to the first. A bunch of “you should have expected this” will mean general acceptance by anyone who isn’t a developer.
The "you should have expected this" people are the worst.
You shouldn't have expected this, but you should expect them to keep pushing it again the second everyone turns their back
Hopefully the idea that they could retroactively apply the fee like they said they were going to initally going to keeps people away from Unity.
Its attrition. They'll keep doing it until the users break. It's smart business to play the long game.
Nah fuck Unity, they fucked up, they ruined their own trust. As soon as they get users they'll do it again.
Godot cannot do that actually as its open sourced and licensed under the MIT licence, stop talking out your ass. And you are confusing the word CULT for PASSIONATE developers. Stay in your sinking ship called Unity and stay there.
@@ginbarato1178 You fuckers are literally crying over the fact that "Yuri is (BASED AS FUCK) wraecist"
@@ginbarato1178 dude, I don't see where Godot has mentioned in his comment.
@@ginbarato1178 and you were not aware that Godot is open source, were you?
@@hoangcu9093 I was responding to another comment :( but it seems like I missed on the reply button
The developer of Road to Vostok is an absolute madman building a 3D survival extraction shooter with Godot that's better looking than most unity/unreal projects. Dude literally chose the tool he likes instead of the right tool for the job and is proving it can work.
Passion is a force to reckon with my friend
The project seems great overall, but not graphically special in any way. Standard PBR look with low detail density. That's fine though, probably for the better actually. High fidelity graphics is a trap that sinks projects. Regardless, all engines can do static scenes with low detail without breaking a sweat. Unreal can do static scenes with high detail effortlessly too, once it's all loaded in (otherwise you need to put in a lot of effort to avoid steaming stutter). Unity just requires an insane amount of work to get even mediocre performance out of for high fidelity.
Just FYI idk if you know this he started with unity. He switched to Godot after the backlash
There is no right tool for the job. There are better and worse tools, and Godot is actually superior in a few ways compared to Unity, such as project sizes. When you consider that most projects will design their own engine tools for development, your own render pipeline, and probably won't even need the fancy graphics for most projects, Godot really doesn't look bad when you can forgo the licensing fee.
I don't know about unreal engine but definitely better looking than most unity or godot games.
dont care, already shifted to Godot
You aren’t won over by their ‘generosity’?
@@Kane0123 what generosity lol?
Same here. Never been even remotely close to paying the fee, but the risk alone, that I might one day do, made me switch to Godot.
just a question. Are you a rogue gamedev or something?
too little to late.
and after the trust is broken, it can't never be fixed
I've already moved onto Godot
Anything you really miss?
Same!
@@bioburdenI miss getting to take 5 minute coffee breaks trying to load the engine
same
@@bioburden I did like Unity's Shader Graph, but i like that Godot is actually open source I'm actually working on improving security to help fight against `gdsecomp` SRE
Not joking, with my sister we started to learn Godot today. I'm trying to teach her programming, while instilling a love of programming. And man, I must say I wasn't expecting Godot to work this fast and be this effective at all. It's like crazy, so lightweight, I didn't know developing games could be this lightweight and want to learn Godot more, since it also has tools that lets you use Neovim with it, this was just a crazy experience. And about Unity, meeh.
In the time it took Unity to install, I:
* discoverd that Godot exists,
* downloaded Godot
* started fiddling with Godot
* looked up documentation for a "How do I do x"
* created a simple ball that can bounce and colide with 2D platforms.
* debuged an issue
By this time, Unity was at 90%.
Dont underestimate lightweights
i use neovim with unity but its not builtin
Never worked with Godot but coming from a web developer, I hear that the way game are structured there are similar to how web apps are structured, so the concepts of app architecture could possibly be transferred to other tech jobs. If that didn't make sense, then the main point here really is that Godot is pretty simple to learn compared to other engines.
@@OzzyTheGiant Couldn't disagree more. It _may_ look similiar, but game object lifetime management is *vastly* different than your average web project. Especially reactive code, in no way it is similiar.
@@OzzyTheGiant Yeah my real job is Web Dev, and Godot is really similar to how modern web frameworks work. In Godot, you create scenes (components) and for any feature you want, you add the scenes nodes (HTML tags), and to sculpture your needs, you literally change the values of attributes of these nodes/tags like in web dev. It's just so similar. I think the best feature of Godot that makes game dev so much like web dev is its lightweightness while keeping game development cycle in this structured attitude.
They've shown their hand, they're looking for better optics but the ship isn't changing course. Going public was when I quit using it, acquiring a malware service was when I knew I would never go back.
I see alot of people saying this but giving nothing to back it up. They dropped the runtime fee, fired the ceo who implemented it, removed most the board members who wanted it and got rid of most of the people who came over from the ironsource merger. How is this not evidence of changing course?
I used to be one of the members of their Unity Live Help Experts team. We were making some educational stuff and providing support in various forms but eventually the team got discontinued. Hopefully they can come up with a new platform that can wrangle all the users together now rather than just the discord server and the sparse learning ecosystem.
I liked Unity, but now I like Godot better. Was never interested in buying Unity stock, Wall Street was hype while Unity was shooting itself in its foot and the valuations never remotely made sense
NGL I think we should get rid of public companies. It basically just becomes greed farming and MBA sprawl. I've never seen any company get better by going public.
Execs do what shareholders boards tell them to do. The board make a bad decision, and to walk it back fired some exec who had to do what the board said in the first place. The board wasn't replaced, just a new whipping boy.
You do realize the CEO is generally chairman/woman of the board, right?
unity got riccitiello'd. It's what he did at EA and will likely do the same to the next company he lands on with his golden parachute. All the board wants is money but it's incompetent leadership that inevitably makes the final call to make said money.
@@CarbonCitizenyou do realize that "chairman of the board" holds the same sort of power that "speaker of the House" or "debate moderator" holds, right? They're just there to make sure everyone takes turns speaking and count votes. Sure, that can be a position of power, but they're ultimately democratically elected and, as such, have to answer to their "constituents" (such as they are).
@@mage3690 you do realize the speaker of the house literally sets what bills come to a floor vote? They hold tremendous power. Debate moderators get to choose questions and what direction to favor, another position of power, but admittedly less so. Pointing out the US vice president likely fits what you're trying to say better, relatively impotent in both their executive and senatorial duties. In any case, CEOs aren't powerless pawns.
Yeah, a worker cooperative would work better. Shareholders and boards sre often misaligned with the longterm health of a company and to the workers and consumers.
G O D O T
... sucks.
... is amazing
... is different than unity, but not necessarily better or worse
@@cyberpunkspikekinda.. but it's still cool, have you tried android godot editor its crazy. you could develop the whole game while being on a phone, and even set up git with mgit. idk why but i was fascinated by that
@@gorlix wait what? i didn't know you could do that! btw i like godot a lot, the perfect game engine for me, at least for now.
Godot is going to take over
It has a long way to go before its actually competitive, I'm here for it when it gets there.
@@RealTwiner You're right, except for about that last part, when a community is a toxic shitstain I won't be there anytime for it.
@@RealTwiner Console porting is coming soo
Godot will take over, linux will thrive, everything will be written in rust and nuclear fusion will release tommorow
@@cyberpunkspikeI only see one toxic individual here and he is not from the Godot side.
it's a rule, once a tech company goes public they have to put "democratizing" in places it doesn't belong
Godot is production ready if you only concern about being able to use works from other team members, you can just use their project inside your project without creating a package.
But, if you think lack of collaboration tools is a minus, then Godot isn't production ready.
ASANA SAMS ROUGH HAHA 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
My main problem with Unity at this point is that they had already made a promise that you could keep your TOS version once before (2019), then deleted that and introduced a retroactive fee last year. After the fallout, they re-introduced the no retroactive changes promise. But considering they already have gone back on that exact promise once before, how can we trust them?
Riccitiello is such a PoS human, so glad he got forced into retirement
The reason companies and enterprises stick to proprietary software is usually the fact that they can rely on a support department that is built onto the price. You can contact autodesk at any time if you have a blocker on an enterprise subscription and they'll assign a full time CS or support engineer to route your issue internally. It's same reason why companies prefer to pay almost double the price of Dell or apple laptops instead of just buying on retail. I very much doubt that Blender or Godot offers such platform if you're not one of the sponsors that pay people to support the project full-time, like MS does.
But the same infrastructure can be built with FOSS, look at Red Hat.
If they want to be screwed over by Unity, I say go ahead! 😂
Corps screwing corps will never be not hilarious. 😂
The original announcement was so hard on the Unity community. A handful of the largest Unity creators on YT jumped ship.
It’s sad to hear prime suggest they want to expand hobbyists because that actually means winning people back that they lost. This whole thing was sadly for nothing.
Deserved. Why do we even have public companies anyway? There's literally no benefit for users.
I'm sure one of the big reasons they did this is because their conference, Unite 2024, is next week and they're going to announce the release/release date of Unity 6 to cap it off. Unity 6 has been in preview since May, slated to release sometime at the end of the year, and most Unity devs, including myself, haven't entertained the thought of using it since doing so would have required you to opt into that runtime fee. Can't have a successful release if no one wants to touch it, even with a 10-ft pole.
Unity: We added a clause that says you can use the old terms of service if you want to.
That was in the terms from 2022. Then Unity decided it could legally ignore it.
19:00 I thought Unreal used C++ while Unity used C#. Could be wrong tho ig
You'd be correct.
It does
nah, after that what they pulled, who knows they won't try to implement something similar, something that might have WEAK people thinking, well Unity needs to make their money somehow in these hard times.
They thought they had that dog in them.
well well well, now you pay me to use it or i'll stay with my g.o.d ot
Oh daddy is back from his milking run.
Daddy can eff of back to permanently get milk for all I care.
I heard Prime talk about someone doing something, upsetting everyone, undoing it and then doing it again being a bit wild and I had to post this. I've seen companies do this a lot. One company does something everyone thinks is horrible, they take the bad press and change course but then when no one is paying attention they just slip it back into place at the same time their competitors do it and everyone acts like things were just always that way.
surely they won't do something like this again once everyone forgets right?
...right? 😂
Don't fall for it over and over again, Unity will fck up again, because they're too far gone
Still gotta justify that IronSource acquisition baby !
And it’s not just this one fuck up. It’s been fuck up after fuck up. This fuck up just happened to go after the money.
Primegan his take on Blender seems wrong to me. It is every bit as good as the paid alternatives. Part of the reason is that Blender has tenths (it was around 35 a few years ago) fulltime employees. They get money by selling courses (as Primegan showed) and selling assets, they also get money from sponsors including Tangent Animation, Nimble Collective (Dreamworks animators, not small guys in the industry), AMD, Aleph Objects (3D printer), Valve and many others. They also get hardware from companies like Intel, Dell, AMD and Nvidia. The lesson from this: opensource software can be every bit as good as proprietary software if it adds sufficient value to attract sponsors (which/who depend on that software) and it has a smart monetizing model (tutorials and assets). Note that Blender started as a failed proprietary project, long before it was used to render animations. The Dutch developer of that software decided to opensource it and let the community have a go at it and thus it became the Blender which we know today.
Attributes for singlular and act as a passenger and letters that worked with numbers
Jake juice
I’m glad I’m not the only one that selects the middle characters within a selection when talking about it. Skip the first and last characters… not only was the video a good watch, it was also very satisfying :D
Open source libraries and toolkits seem to win out in the long run. Untrustworthy dependencies is just asking for trouble.
Trust is gone.
Peoples spent time to pass different game engines. After waiting a year, they expect people to return. Unity has opened very deep wounds in people's hearts. Going back won't be that easy.
Long live GODOT
Gained in drops, lost in buckets
Aside from the community godot is funded by some big names that includes google play and pirate software, also godot's 2d engine now is pretty much similar to unity's 2d engine, godot's strong point is its 2d engine, as for the 3d engine, they recently started bumping up the 3d work and its way better than what it used to be an year ago, if it goes on like this it will catch up to unity with 3d engine too. I don't have plans on being a game dev but i did use godot for a while, even now i plan to use it once in a while if i want to make something for myself and if i ever plan to learn game dev and built something properly i would contribute (monetary)
@20:55; I wouldn't say Perforce is dead; it still exists, it's just been renamed Helix Core.
That, and most companies are trying to move away from it for different repos, but my previous experience with moving a codebase from Perforce to Git is that you can get some major problems with Git LFS - especially if you ever need to re-add a LFS file, or update a LFS file.
yea , one guy in chat makes such a ridiculous statement and prime says it for some reason , every big studio in game dev and film production is using perforce , its integrated into unity and unreal , half the studios have wrapped it in an internal "artist friendly" UI sending the p4 commands . maybe less common in indie but perforce excels at handling so many large source art files , git LFS slows to a crawl on big repo with lots of history . i would love for there to be good alternatives that scale .
I don't hate Unity but I do think it's a good thing when these big companies get a reality check because brings them down a peg and lets other game engines take some market share.
It's annoying though, that when some corporations are just way worse (like Google and Microsoft), they don't get any checks. But when others do only a slight changes, they get lot of blame with lot of misinformation and such.
I may just suggest that these people are just bots of big tech atm.
0:56 Helldivers 👀
My first thought 😅
And suddenly, Godot stepped into it hard.
As someone that's just retired from a career of software development and thinking of giving game development a try, mainly to learn more about it. I'd consider Unity, 20 years of C# development does make that my preferred language (I do have 15 years of C++ before that, but modern C++ isn't like what I knew). But if I were planning on selling games and growing a company I think it would take some time seeing if they keep their promises before I'd want to bet the company on it.
You can use C# and even C++ in Godot as well.
@@FRanger92 Yup, and I hear Godot is, or has, reworked their C# support making it much better. But I'm mainly interested in 3D games and as I'm not planning on releasing, probably not even finishing any games, I think Unity would be fine for me. Like I say, if I were starting a company it would be a different story.
@@xlerb2286 Ah yeah, that makes sense then.
I would recommend Monogame for C# game dev. It's more of a framework than an engine, but it's an excellent base for anything you would want to build. It's also effectively a continuation of XNA, so if you have any experience with XNA, it's super easy to get started.
The fact that they're doing this is actually a decent sign imo. I've worked at/interacted with plenty of companies where executive management had their heads so far up their @ that there's no way they would revoke a change like this. This tells me they at least have some number of people who are paying attention and are able to explain things to management well enough to hopefully keep them from becoming Adobe.
Open source ftw. Go Godot
Aras Pranckevičius (former Unity dev, one of OGs devs) made quite informative post on his blog about recent Unity direction.
Blog seems down right now from being swarmed. Can you summarize for us?
Can you tldr for us?
@@Azazel226 @lowzyyy Its on Internet Archives, google "Random-thoughts-about-Unity" for link.
Its not really insight info, just his personal opinions, since he left Unity over 2 years ago.
TL;DR Unity until around 2010 has ben steadily developed and had clear goal - Be an engine for small to medium teams. After VC funding, they gathered loads of money and started to divert from them, and eg. go for AAA games with DOTS, go with web dev world, go with SRP with 2 example implementations (URP/HDRP) that accidentally became de facto standard SRP implementations. With stuff like that and terrible management You cannot really hit something while You don't know where are You shooting. Typical try to do everything, be good at nothing.
Requesting a tldr pls
It's going to take a couple of years or some extra love to repair the damage done. The new CEO and personal pricing / splash screen changes is a great step forward. People love -to hate on- Unity. Let's hope things stay reasonable going forward.
Trust is dead and already fell in love with other game Dev tools and have ported my project to Monogame.
It would take something awfully special to convince me back into Unity's ecosystem now.
I finally got my sea legs with Godot 😂
If you can see shark, you can see plus plus as well!
Funny he mentioned Flappy Bird, now that it's back.
19:25 The answer is yes. Godot even at the time was already pretty solid and *almost* capable as a full on replacement to Unity. Now I would say it has certainly passed that mark, as evidenced by showcases and the upcoming game Road to Vostok. That project began on Unity, with the developer switching to Godot as a result of the Unity scandal. He has now gone far beyond fully porting what he had already done within Unity. Godot certainly is not perfect, but none of them are, and it has been making incredible strides as of late. Despite being FOSS, it is a very well supported project, even getting donations from larger corporations.
Godot editor is light years behind Unity . And the overall workflow is not intuitive at all.
If you are wondering why Unity is losing money, it's because they paid $150 millions of compensation to their 5 executives. (not OP)
I was looking at Unreal, Unity and Godot for my project back then. Unity ruled out themselves and Unreal felt too big for me. I'm firmly rooted in godot land now and I also love it. I might or might not have success though, but Unity will never ever be a consideration.
When I saw this headline my first thought was: "Didn't they cancel that a year ago?" Maybe not? Huh. Once a business tries to give you the shaft, there's no trusting them from then on. Going public was a bad decision, but then I don't have any trust in public companies either, so... Best thing you can have is an Ironclad license agreement that cannot be changed without both parties consent. And even then? If there's anything else you can use? I'd probably go for it.
Hats off to Unity for removing the splash screen on the personal edition. This is something I've been waiting for for a long time. I've since moved over to Unreal engine but will consider working with Unity again.
It's not necessarily about trust, but if you leave a game engine, and start learning a new one, how much time and cost will this mean, if you spend that time and money... would you go back ? Also i see a new game price increase because of that 25% increase which basically translates to AAA Studios. so the $60-70 games might be affected.
16:53 by lower, do you mean more negative (greater magnitude if you ignore the negative sign)?
If so, then you're right. The greater the magnitude of the price elasticity of demand, the more price sensitive consumers are to the good or service, so a larger change in demand will occur (opposite direction of change compared to the change in price)
I'm so old that when people talk about Unity, I first thing they're talking about the .Net Framework DI library.
Thank you, Thank you! THANK YOU UNITY............................. For introducing me to Godot!
From my experience and that of my friends and family who are a little more observant than the average, people are just tired of getting screwed. It has always seemed to me that there are rules for people and rules for corporations. If a person downloads 100 movies, that’s piracy. But if a corporation downloads 1,000,000 movies, that’s called “training our AI model.” This can be seen in everything. And it pisses people off. Which is a good thing.
Powerful man, God bless you people💌
The day they announced they are going public I was 100% sceptical about their future. Both for their sake and the developers' benefit.
John Riccitiello was the CEO at EA when FIFA introduced loot boxes in 2008. He stayed until 2013, when the board of directors accepted his resignation due to the company's on-going bad financial performance. He became the CEO of Unity Technologies at the end of 2014. He left that position several weeks after the run-time fee was introduced amid controversy, and has since announced his retirement from corporate life. He was just a really shitty CEO. Don't blame Unity, blame John Riccitiello. He also negotiated the sale of Bioware and Pandemic Studios to EA, so you can blame him for only one good Mercenaries game as well.
The runtime fee had to pass through the board of directors and most of them had to go “yeah that seems like a good idea”. There has to be multiple bad eggs, I just can’t see one person unilaterally pulling off something like that.
@@MrMoon-hy6pn Same can be said for EA loot boxes but he was "in charge" for both decisions. That's kinda the whole point of a "Chief Executive Officer." They make decisions that need approval, but they are the one steering the ship.
No. Blame Unity for hiring such a known and failed hack scammer as CEO. Blame John Riccitello for his own actions. Neither companies nor awful people need your sympathies.
nah fuck unity, they decided to have him as CEO
Better to take a look, yeah, only look, never touch
Perforce is very much not dead. It’s still industry standard.
Godot is slaying Unity
Oh the FAFO business loop. Nah, screw Unity.
You totally should try Godot seriously for some time in the future - just to realize how it is... I literally say its superior to Unity in most aspects I interested in... Also has better overall architecture...
The only reason I keep unity on one of my machines is for an AR toy project that I sometimes touch - but that's it... and I wish I could exchange that too with Godot...
They probably wanted to capitalize on the huge games that are already using Unity (such as Hoyoverse). However, problem of tech companies is that when they create something good and become very profitable then they start to attract higher level management that are only leeching off the former success, but only playing company politics, initiating perpetual reorganizations as each new director has to be a "Steve Jobs", and bringing in external consulting companies that sell an idea "10x faster time to market" w/o even knowing what the company is doing and how.
Unity has one thing going for it which many open source projects will have hard time providing - multi-platform. However, now it will be more difficult to attract new projects and retain existing ones, as the overall vibe is evaluate the risk of dependency on Unity. I think, some will remain, especially if those are not f2p games.
the good side of it: voting with your attention and dollars actually works (sometimes)
Good move, Unity… still learning Godot.
I just got interested in game dev as this was going on and I chose Godot. Looks like I’ll be using free tools for a while. Already a big user of Blender, LibreOffice, ILovePDF, and DaVinci Resolve. Nice to add another piece of software to the arsenal.
Captain disillusion is a certified blenderer. Blender is fantastic.
every day that passes the more i am glad that I chose to learn Godot over Unity.
Unity DOTS is the only thing keeping me around. If they somehow fuck that up or bevy has been more developed im out. This whole fiasco has caused me a lot of stress. The fact that they where so fast on pushing the runtime fee but it took them so long to revert those changes is insane. The only positive thing coming out of this is that developers realized Godot exists where the lightweight editor isn't a buggy mess and does not take ages to load. It even managed to get brackeys back from his grave. I don't think it is possible for me to ever trust Unity again. Im just waiting for the right moment to jump the ship.
It's like cheating. They alread have done it once and will most likely do it again
and this is why we vote with our wallets!
I was thinking of jumping into Unity's engine as I have been working on making my own game. I did catch up on what stunts they pulled and because of that I decided to go elsewhere.
Went to Godot no point in going back to unity if they have the ability to do garbage like this they will do it again.
a better comparison is with wizzards of the coast when they tried to sneak in the changes to the OGL
Well one thing unity did that I enjoy was getting me to try out Godot
Really good change, this isnt for people that left but developers like me that wanted to use new version without the stupid fee. Lot of people screaming godot typically havent invested years in unity or never became very efficient with unity.
Good job, Flip !
"Things are going down, things are not going in the right direction. Therefor they have to pivot"
This is the risk of continuing to use Unity, they have to pivot. And they only reversed this decision because it was not making them money while also damaging their reputation. So they are now back at square 1 which is...We have to pivot.
We don't know what that new "pivot" will be. But it's going to happen. I don't want to use an engine that I know must "pivot" soon.
I still wouldn't trust them.
This is incredibly niche, but I can't switch from Unity because I cobble together stuff for VRChat. As long as VRChat uses Unity, I have to use Unity. I know it's not the same as developing my own games, but it's still frustrating. A microdose of the frustration actual game devs feel, I suppose.
13:14 Best redemption arc of the year ?
There is an interesting saying. The more You fuck around, the more You are going to find out...
21:48 Unity already takes a 30% cut on asset store sales
Not a generous move but a ducktap move
That ORM sounds like JDBI for java which is awesome
Probably significant that Unite is literally next week as well.
RIP Unity 2024