6x17 Photography: Camera Types & Options
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is Part 2 of my 4-Part Series on 6x17 Photography.
View Part 1 here: • 6x17 Photography: Basi...
View Part 3 here: • 6x17 Photography: Lens...
CHAPTERS:
- Intro: 00:00
- 6x17 Viewfinder Cameras vs. View Cameras: 00:41
- Viewfinder vs. View Camera: Camera & Lens Options: 1:10
- Viewfinder vs. View Camera: Composing & Focusing: 3:38
- Viewfinder vs. View Camera: Other Features: 8:27
- 6x17 Roll Film Backs & Hybrid Designs: 13:36
- Shen-Hao TFC 617-A & PTB 617: 15:38
- 6x17 Roll Film Back: 18:49
- Linhof Technorama: 19:19
- Fuji G617 & Fuji GX617: 20:10
- Tomiyama Art 170: 22:43
- Noble Design ND6x17: 23:18
- Kraken 6x17: 24:16
- Dayi S-IIA 6x17 & Alvandi Panorama 617 II: 25:03
HOW TO SUPPORT:
If you benefited from this video and want to buy me a beer, check out either of the following links:
- nickcarverphoto.com/beer_me
- nickcarverphoto.com/contribute
ONLINE COURSES:
- Master Manual Metering for Film Photography: www.nickcarverphoto.com/metering
- Large Format Photography: www.nickcarverphoto.com/lf
PLUGS:
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VIDEO LINKS:
- 6x17 Photography: Basics & Resolution (Part 1 in this series): • 6x17 Photography: Basi...
- Lens Depth of Field Scales & Hyperfocal Distance: • Lens Depth of Field Sc...
- @ThomasHeatonPhoto 's review of the Noble Design ND6x17 camera: • Is This Camera the Fut...
VIDEO DESCRIPTION:
Look, before you leave a comment…I know, these cameras are expensive. I’m not money bags Nick over here telling you to buy a $9,000 panoramic camera. This is just what 6x17 photography costs. I’m only reporting the facts, mam. AND YES, I KNOW you can make stitched panos with your fancy mirrorless contraption without having to buy a stupid 6x17 camera. AND YES, I KNOW I LOOK A LITTLE LIKE WIL WHEATON. Also Matt Day.
Sorry to fly off the handle like that. It’s getting late and I’m tired and I’ve been listening to myself talk about 6x17 photography for the past 2 days. I’ve had it up to here with me. I shouldn’t take it out on you, my sweet prince. And I say prince not princess because my TH-cam viewing audience is 95.9% male, so I’m just playing the odds. Can you believe that percentage? It’s a real sausage fest over here. The ladies decidedly DO NOT need summa dis.
What were we talking about? Oh, yeah. 6x17 cameras.
This 6x17 stuff ain’t cheap, I get it. But it’s not for your average Carhartt-beanie-wearing Portra-400-overexposin’ photographer. That’s what Mamiya 7’s are for. (I love you guys don’t be mad). 6x17 is a unique format that requires unique equipment. It’s meant to be slow and contemplative. 4 frames per roll of 120…that’s the real expense. Nevermind the camera. But here’s the great news: 6x17 offers a unique photography experience unmatched by any other format. It’s just f’ing special…and fun. And you can take THAT to the bank.
I love 6x17 photography. I never tire of it. I want to share it with all you fine folks. I want to show you the world (of 6x17 photography). Shining, shimmering splendid.
Thanks for watching!
Website: www.nickcarverphoto.com
Instagram: / nickcarver - บันเทิง
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Shen Hao definitely owes you that black beauty for what you have done to promote the brand!
We need to start a hashtag campaign or something.
yeah they should send you one for free…
Let's get Nicky C to 100k
Done
It's Friday, theres a Nick video AND it's on 617 cameras. Life's good.
Fun fact: New 220 film is available under the Shanghai brand. I've purchased several rolls of Shanghai GP3 in 220 recently and shot a roll with flash in the studio w/my RZ67 with good results.
The self promo cut at 9:20 absolutely killed me 😂
damn 2 videos in a week? what a treat!
I'm from China and your introduction helped me a lot, I also bought the shenhao 617 camera, for a person familiar with digital cameras, the 617 reversal film is amazingly beautiful. Please keep making related videos.
Will do! Thanks for watching.
when you start talking about the fuji and the 80's. THATS THE GREATEST
LMAO, 9:22 mark pitching your course! My man, I do enjoy your videos for the presentation and humor. I don't even do this kind of photography but I watch anyway because I enjoy the show.
Love to hear that, thank you!
Being slower always helped me appreciate ‘the moment’. My view camera is being returned to me after a 30 year loan. Yippee.
I purchased used one yesterday, can't wait to join the 617 club😎
"The sound of the shutter clic sound like a Phil Collins drum solo" this one sentence will go down in the photography encyclopedia history for sure
Amazing video Nick!
got a chuckle out of the course plug. great video as always Nick. cheers.
That’s the best info I’ve gotten on the difference between the folding and non-folding Shen Hao, thanks!
Another crazy, Carver created wonderful video. Of course. I had never thought much about 6x17 but I am awaiting your further videos to see if I would consider entering that arena. Thanks for all that tasty info Mr. C !!!
Never been a fan of panoramic photography but because of your videos I gave 6x17 a try and I'm glad I did. I love it now. I went with the Shen Hao SH617 back that goes into my Chamonix 4x5.
Cheers Nick, great information and cool video 💚
The '80's tribute is the highlight! Given all those options, it's no surprise why you chose the one you did. Facinating series!
awesome tell / i so appreciate learning so much from your expertise !!
Superb video! I had a Linhof 612 and miss it terribly. Took it on trips, easy to handhold (if you felt like it, in daylight), and the chromes were sharper than a blade's edge.
Another great video in these series Nick. I'm getting very tempted now...
💸💸💸 Let it fly away into a 6x17 camera.
Awesome video Nick! I have, and love, the Fujifilm G617. I sometines wish for a bit more telephoto, but all in all I love it. It has become my most used Camera!
You're are a real good teacher.
Fantastic overview of 6x17, Nick! Thanks for posting this. FWIW KB Canham also makes a 6x17 back (and it's motorized!) bt for their 5x7 cameras.. ... and yes, Shen Hao needs to send you one of those beautiful ebony cameras!
Good to know. Makes much more sense having a 6x17 back for a 5x7 instead of a 4x5, but I never hear about that one. I suppose because 4x5 tends to be more common.
I never thought a video about 6x17 cameras could make me laugh this much. You are hilarious, my friend. 😂
Shen Hao owes you.... big time. I can barely afford to shoot 15 35mm rolls a year so any of these are out of my reach.... nevertheless I watch because I find your videos fascinating, all of them. Loved the desert trains video, and looking forward to more. Cheers Nick
A great video. The best channel
For panoramic and films photos!
You are a very good teacher. And
Good idea you put subtitles. It s
Very nice for french people. It s
Much easier to understand you!
Just pulled the trigger on all 5 lessons. Excited to see them after watching this awesome TH-cam channel! Ever give private lessons?
Great round up! I recently got a Chamonix 5x7 with a DaYi 617 roll film back,and it is definitely your fault! I love it though. Definitely the right choice for me, since the only thing I need to switch from the 5x7 to 6x17 is just one relatively small film back. Less of an investment too, that DaYi back was a little less than $600 for a camera I was already planning to get. Would recommend. Looking forward to the second half of the series!
Another thoroughly enjoyable video - thank you. There is also always the option of 6X17 pinhole cameras - too many to mention ;-)
As an proud owner of a g617… you nailed the description and character of the camera
Another great video. I purchased that 1980s bad boy Fuji 617 and love it. You might mention the filters you should use to "even out' the light across that wide view. Mine came with 77 mm centre ND filter (Marumi). I also use bull dog clips to fasten my Lee Filter holder on those bull bars for ND filters (little and big stopper). And you are right very hit and miss with any graduated filter to find centre/horizon. I have to scan the negative myself (using Epson 700) as the pro-lab can not do this, they can only do half and you have to stick them. I really appreciate your videos and bought the light meter course (and a Pentax spot meter V), use the range finder method to focus this beast and epson scanning lesson. Long live film photography (I learnt on a Yashica-D back in La Mirada high school in the mid-60s). Have you noticed you can not buy colour 35 mm film at the moment? too many hipsters out there.
Great series. I owned a Panoraflex 617 with a 90mm lens in the past and sold it for the Linhof Technorama 617 SIII with 72 and 180mm lens. I love the Shenhao but I found it when I already owned the Linhof and since I know the ex-owner I will never trade it in. I added the Reality So Subtle 617 and it is one of my most loved camera. Maybe something interesting to add to your collection as well ;)
I wasn't expecting to LMAO during a 6x17 camera video, but that plug for your course was hilarious!
that subliminal stimuli about the course turned my eyes into black holes and I couldn't stop repeating the whole link for 25 minutes straight until I realized it is not the right time to think about buying a 6x17 camera yet :) thanks for all the information you give us for free, though! enjoy the weekend :)
okay, that 80s bit about the Fuji Cam was hilarious and for that price I sure hope it sounds like a Phil Collins drum solo xD
I need an AI to create an 8 hour loop of Nick talking about cameras. His voice is so calming. Beautiful background sound while I'm working on images.
Hello Nick, I hope you and your love ones are doing well. I love the aspect ratio, and I was looking to buy a Hasselblad X-Pan but they are super expensive so the next best thing and cheaper was to buy the Shen Hao SH TFC617-A and I did it. Practice time now.
Thank you for all the videos you made/make and keep the great work!
i took a photo of a liquor store the other night with my lowly peasant canon AE1, just wishing i could afford a 6x17. Darn you nick carver! But seriously, your videos have been inspiring me to shoot lately, so thanks
ahahaha that jump cut was FANTASTIC
I'm a huge fan of the Alvandi cameras, definitely the best build new camera you can get, I put a lot a film through mine and it's never failed me
There’s a new entrant to the “hybrid” market
Chroma - have their six:17 which is 3d print, but…. Interchangeable film back and full ground glass. And the price is amazing, less than $550 with one cone and one film back.
thanks for the great overview. trying out ine of the shen haos would be splendid! i have a Reality So Subtle 6x17 pinhole camera and it‘s lots of fun if you don‘t expect a perfect framing and exposure obviously…
You were on a roll there with that 80's Fuji G617 description, Nick 😂😂😂
I had a Linhof Technorama in the late 80s and was always a bit annoyed that a had no tilt and shift. I had to sell it in the2000s anyway and family things had priority.
Then about 2 years ago i stumbled about your video about the Shen Hao and since then i watched out for a used one.
This year i got one finally from a young photographer who had to sell for the same reasons i had once to sell. It came together with 2 filmbacks for a reasonable price.
I love that camera although i did not find time to shoot so much as i want this year. But vacation time comes soon…
Thank for that series about 6x17…
Hi Nick!
Your liquor store video inspired me to buy the Shen Hao 6x17.
You missed one other 6x17 type..the Noblex 150/175 swing lens 6x17 camera. Kind of a Widelux on steroids.
But takes excellent images. You might also mention pinhole 6x17’s too?
But like you, the Shen Hao is my first love.
Looking forward to your next video, especially lenses!, so far, I’m all Nikkor….can’t wait for the rest of the series.
I’m stuck on panoramic….
Great video. Shin Hao does owe you! You did not mention 5x7 cameras. These work better than 4x5 as more lens choices and no clipping.
I love these cameras. Sad to say I find the GFX 100II suits me better.
Maybe if I were a better more skilled photographer.
I have been following you for a long time. Your work just keeps getting better. And it doesn’t get better than that !!!
You're a hero, man. I mean the video is great, but just for the 'this camera is so 80's...' sequence.
I got me one of those Krakens about a year ago...Quite fun
I have a Vpan 617 on a monorail system it’s heavy, they’re rare, and the designer passed away. I used it once and so far i like it. Would LOVE a Shen Hao but 🤑
Whenever you post a video Like this, I want to get a 6x17 back for my 5x7. One day ...
Great video, Nick! Thanks for putting all this information together. Have you ever come across the CHROMA six 17? Would love to get your take on it…
Great news Nick, shanghai just last year put 220 back into production! Im looking at some GP3 here which i love, in 220, and dated for october 2024.
It may not be colour, but 220 lives!!!!
On my Wista a 75mm lens worked well with a 6x17 back for 4x5" cameras. With the wide angle bellows there was also some movement of the lens possible. Worked well from the view of the images but was a bit finicky. I never used it much and eventually sold it.
Hey Shan Hao. I bought my camera because this guy :) :P
It would be great if some of the other newer large format camera manufacturers made 6x17 offerings. Intrepid has been doing 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 for a while, at fairly affordable prices. Ondu has some interesting cameras coming down the pike, including a 4x10, but that’s still sheet film. And while at least DaYi makes a 617 back for 5x7 that seems flush rather than recessed like the 4x5 backs, it still means that you’d need a full-size 5x7 camera, and a dedicated 6x17 would be a bit smaller.
I'm looking forward to the day you start shooting in an 8"X8" format.
Nick got me hooked on 6x17 and my Shen Hao is my favorite camera. Watching Nick's videos can lead for serious spending. One other thing to note: If you do your own darkroom printing, you will need an 8x10 enlarger, since a 4x5 enlarger cannot physically handle a negative that wide. It's definitely a wonderful format, and I prefer it to 6x12 by a wide margin.
"...prefer it to 6x12 by a wide margin." - 🤣 good joke.
I thought a 5x7 englarger could handle the 6x17. Either way, I've been looking for an 8x10 enlarger for this very reason.
@@heresmyurl Not sure about 5x7. Might be close.
Breaking my regulation viewer status to become a comment leaver, thank you for your sick obsession for all thing 6x17 photography. I only shoot an Xpan currently but I cannot wait to get a 6x17 in the near future.
I have a 6x17 pinhole camera from Realty so Subtle. It has a curved film plane so there is no light fall off .Uses 120 film ,4 shots per roll has a 140 degree FOV . Has 2 pinholes to give you a way to have horizon higher or lower on your composition. Takes a while to figure out how to achieve good compositions with such a wide view but you can get some very nice shots when you figure it out. It makes very nice contact prints and hi rez scans can give you a relatively sharp , vaguely soft look ,I print up to 6.5 x20 inch and looks very nice. It is fun to shoot.
Hey! Nice 4K!
I use a 5x7 view camera for most of my work, and occasionally want a panoramic composition. Since I've been on a weight watching streak I really don't want the added weight (and cost) of a 6x17 back, so use a modified dark slide instead. For the cost of about an ounce or so (a dark slide cut down to expose half of the frame), I get to do 6x17 if the composition calls for it. Hardly any extra weight, and the only cost aside from an ounce or so and an old dark slide that I already had, is keeping track of which side of the film holder is exposed.
If I were to do much more 6x17 it might be worth a dedicated camera, but the modified dark slide works well for me.
Noble Designs camera body is 3d printed as well btw
9:21 "Ihaveanonlinecourseallabout...."
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! I knew it was coming but the execution; chef's kiss.
I always wonder, with trying to focus on the view camera in lower light, could you shine a laser point onto the object you're focusing on? It seems silly, but it feels like you'd be able to see it from a distance and it could be really useful.
Let me know if I'm crazy!
Worth mentioning that Joseph Koudelka did a ton of work with a pair of 6x17's on his shoulders and shooting them like giant Leicas. Cool shitake, big time. Which 115 are you using? I'm thinking about getting one for my 5x7, only have the 120 Angulon now. Cheers man, dig the shows.
Great 6x17 info. Just one thing missing - the Intrepid version. Oh, wait, they don't make one. Yet? I think they're missing the proverbial boat here.
I've been talking to Angus Noble about his new 6x17 camera which I think is a good deal for the money. He is happy to work with my 125mm Fuji lens. However one sticking point for me is that you can't easily switch between using that lens with 4x5 and 6x17. I think he is also looking at an optical viewfinder.
first I like to say I love your videos. do you shoot any DSLR or Mirrorless????
Thank you! And yeah I do for my client work.
I'm having problems using my Shen Hao 6x17 back on my Toyo 45CF. I cannot seem to get my front standard to attach to the rails and allow myself to focus to infinity. The front standard has to be set up too far back and I run out of rail. I'm just barely able to get enough contact to partially secure the front standard to the rail. I am using a 135mm lens, it's the best choice considering my other two lenses (90mm and 210mm) are not ideal with my current problem. I appreciate that it is due to the focus plan with the 6x17 back being about 45mm further back from where the camera's native focal plane is located. I've tried recessed lens boards to try and help with the problem but still no dice. The lens is so far back into the board that you cannot get to the levers to make adjustments to aperture and shutter speed, along with being able to cock the shutter. Ultimately I've come to the conclusion that this is a good as it is going to get.
Our local shop in Tulsa had an estate sale complete GX617 kit in mint condition that sold for $9900 with a full set of lenses. Beautiful camera but its all-in to own one (for me anyway).
There are roll film backs for 5x7 view cameras that would not have the focal length limitations of the backs for 4x5 cameras. Canham even makes a motorized one.
One question for you please. How often in you style of shooting do you use movements on the rear standard?
Also you need a tripod for a view camera which makes the setup bigger again
Yeah that's true. But given the necessary focal lengths and apertures for this format (regardless of camera type), it's unlikely you'd be able to use any of them handheld. Maybe some shallow DOF stuff with a 90mm in bright light, though.
Great video Nick ! Damm your a good salesman I just ordered the ebony 617 !!
Only joking
Truthfully after reading Alex Burkes blogs on 617 where he ways up the pros and cons i decided to stick to a 45 field camera and crop my images to 617 or 612
Perhaps when the world settles down and the dollar ain't spanking my pathetic £££ I will go for the she hao 617
Hello Nick！ Why is there a 6x12 mark on the glass? Even though there are only 6x17 filmbacks?
Viewfinder Cameras have also Ground Glasses!
Do you have any vertical shots with the 6x17?
great systematic review of these cameras, but one thing if you need to use 220 it would be far cheaper to get a 24 exp. hasselblad back for these cameras, and add it to a flexbody, than the expense of on of these panoramic format cameras, or even go for a Mamiya universal or super 23 press camera (6x9)- a cheaper 'almost panoramic' format, and these DO use 220, just turn the scale on the winder, OR go by the numbering system on the back itself, (red-window) style film indexing.
The Intrepid company in the UK makes some affordable view cameras. If I weren't satisfied with my Linhof Technika and Graflex 4X5 cameras, I think I'd give an Intrepid 4X5 a look.
i am interested in taking portraits with a panoramic camera. is this possible with a viewfinder camera like the fuji gx617?
Also i already own a Cambo 4x5inch camera. Do you think i could get a panorama rollback adapter/holder for it?
i rather have a more portable camera like the fuji but only if i could use it for still life and portraits
your advice please!
nick, what about the Hasselblad x-pan cameras?, are they 6x17 or are they 6x9 or 6x12 cameras?
I need a whiskey after all of that info. LOL
Hi, Nick. Does Shen Hao have a U.S. or N.A. Distributor? Thanks.
I have the G617 and absolutely love it but I know I will end up getting a view camera at some point. Need those movements. I had the 6x17 back for my 4x5 but hit the same problems you mentioned. You can't go wife or long very easily.
It might be worth mentioning centre filters on the next video. It really makes a difference on the G617 and with my 90mm.
(I am sure you are planning to)
The G617 has a fixed 105mm lense 😉 But yes, using the center filter is more than helpfull.
@@thomaskeil6059 Are you explaining my camera to me? I have a 90mm Schneider XL for 6x17/5x7 and it also requires a centre filter.
@Ben Reynolds: I got it wrong: I thought you're talking about the G617 WITH 90mm. Sorry for that. Btw. I also have the G617 and I love it. There are a lot of limitations, on the other hand the camera is fast and easy to use.
Do they make a 6x17 film back for a Horseman L45?
At 2:32 I was waiting for you to follow it up with ton's IQ 😅
Nick, These videos are really helpful. Thank you. I recently purchased a Shen Hao 617 and am going through your course. I wanted to pick up a second 617 format back for the camera so I can carry B&W and Color with me. I cannot seems to find a spare back for the camera. Ebay has a buch of 617 backs but they all seem to be made for non-617 Shen Hao cameras. Is there any chance you could help me find a supplier for a spare 617 back? I am really new to this and wpould hate to buy the wrong thing. thanks.
I would check with badgergraphic.com. They have a connection to the supplier.
You can mail the company directly too. Mail address is on their homepage.They speak english…
@@nickcarverphoto Thank you I will reach out. So appreciate it.
@@SD_Alias Thank you. I will give it a shot.
i'm so tempted to buy a 617 back for my 4x5 camera, but the price are absurd.
I think I'll buy a gx617 when something comes up affordably. There is a guy asking 5k CAD for one near me but the lens has white markings everywhere (claims its not fungus) and im assuming its the paint depeeling from inside the lens.
Hey people, did somebody used Seitz 617 Digital scanning camera?
There is actually now 1 whole company making 220 again, namely Shanghai GP3, though I only know of 1 supplier for me to get any and I can't use it with my TLR anyway
No love for the Noblex? Just kidding, they’re crazy expensive and niche. Cool though
Yeah I tried to stick to 6x17 specifically here. The Noblex's are in a category of their own. Crazy cameras.
Great video! Minor correction - there are lens cones for the Tomiyama Art 170 to support different focal lengths, though "you're on your own buddy" when it comes to figuring out the frame lines if you don't want to use the ground glass. I love mine, but am selling it to fund more 4x5 gear (shameless plug, DM me for details ;) )
The Fuji 617 looks as tough as Rocky IV. For best results, Doc said to set the shutter speed to exactly 88 mph. KITT, pick up Nick on the way to The Breakfast Club so he can grab a pano of Molly Ringwald and Ally Sheedy.
It drove a DeLorean into the Berlin wall 😂
There's a Chinese dude who made a new Hybrid style 617 camera and sold dozens of them last year. The body, film back and lens cones are all made of aluminum, and the overall build quality seems quite nice to me. I can send you a link if you are interested.
You still have a link? :)
@@emanuelschimpfossl5919 Sure but I am not sure if they are still taking orders
Have you ever tried to shoot Nascar with your Shen Hao 🤔🥃
I know you probably dont like this option, as sharpness isn’t very good. Nevertheless, I shoot 6x17 on two cameras, a home made 3D printed pinhole camera and a RealitySoSubtle pinhole camera. I have some gorgeous results, at least in my opinion, but you probably wouldnt like the lack of perfect sharpness.
I prefer the look of your Shen-Hao to the other model - and I think you only missed a New Coke reference in your 80s homage.